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Around SBN: Africa Cup Of Nations Semifinal: Black Stars Ripe For Upset?

The Monday Morning Microscope: Week 5

 So let's try and put the Steelers game in perspective, shall we?  Yes, they are the reigning Super Bowl champs.  Yes, we were expected to lose and we did.  But that is not the end of the story.  This was supposed to be a complete drubbing, but it wasn't.  We actually gave this team a scare at the end.  Of course, it was more like your 5 year old son walking up to you in broad daylight and going "Boo!", but it was a scare nonetheless.  If you really want to be frank, we played the Steelers much better than the Chargers did, with or without their 4th quarter run.  We did this while missing many of our best players.  Our number one quarterback, wide receiver, right tackle and defensive end - all of which are pretty darn good - sat helplessly watching from the sidelines Sunday.  And we still kept the game close.  For the fifth week in a row, I see positive signs from this team.

 

Star-divide

Sure, there is still a lot to be upset about.  After all, take away some of the stupid mistakes and we could have stolen one from the champs.  That win would've put the new-look Lions back on the map.  Now, those around the league that don't watch the games will simply chalk it up to another loss by the lovable loser Lions.  But we know better.  This is a far cry from the nonsense we all saw on the field last season.  These are most definitely not the same Lions from last year.  These Lions have some fight.  These Lions have some self-confidence.  And yes, these Lions still have a long way to go, but not as far as they once did.

 

I think we are going to play a lot of the "would've, could've, should've" game this season.  That's just the kind of year it's gonna be.  They are a better team, just not quite good enough for the tougher teams.  But the determination and overall better product should keep the fans interested even when the win-loss record is heavily weighted to the right.  I think we all have to admit that they've been pretty fun to watch this year.  Frustrating, but fun.  Isn't that all that we were really asking for?  To have a competitive team that keeps things close so we don't have to turn our televisions off at halftime?  If you wanted more than that, I think you were asking too much of one off-season.  To take an 0-16 team and really go toe-to-toe with four teams that have a combined record of 15-3... that's pretty darn good.  Yeah, I know... they are not wins.  And these were winnable games.  But that in and of itself should speak volumes to us all.  This is a substantially better football team even if the record itself doesn't directly reflect that.  And in turn we as fans, in the span of five short weeks, have raised our expectations of this team to that of competing with Super Bowl caliber teams.... and they have delivered.  Win... no.  Compete... absolutely.

 

Thoughts About the Game:

  • Okay, I'll start with Daunte, because it is the biggest storyline of the game and there seems to be a real difference of opinion on this site as to how well he played. For my take, you have to understand how I went into the game viewing Culpepper's first start of the season. I knew that this would be a tough game for any quarterback, especially one who hasn't played a full regular season game yet - so I gave him that. But I also wasn't giving him the same leash-length that I gave Stafford in his first start because the guy is an 11 year veteran. So with that as the backdrop, I thought he played okay. He still hasn't gotten rid of his career long case of fumblitis and the one interception was one of the worst decisions that I've seen a quarterback make in a long time. It wasn't based on a bad read, it was just plain stupidity. And I didn't see him get hit on the throw enough to alter where the pass was headed. Okay, so the mistakes aside, I thought he did move the chains well at times. He took a few chances downfield - and without a lot of success - but mostly stayed with the underneath stuff that the defense was gladly giving him. This adds to his already infamous perception as a dink-and-dunker, which doesn't help his bid for a starting gig in 2010. He did show good mobility and a command in the huddle. I think the bigger problem wasn't necessarily Culpepper, but the constant pressure in his face. I think what I've learned about Daunte is that he has a very small window of time where he actually looks at his downfield receivers. As soon as he feels any amount of pressure, he immediately brings his eyes either to his checkdowns or the ground. This is where he either dumps it off or takes off running. He simply doesn't feel comfortable in a cluttered pocket. Daunte thrives in the deep game only when he has substantial time in the pocket or in working play-action scenarios (i.e. the running game is effective so the defense bites on the play-action). The Steelers played it perfectly. They kept him contained in the pocket for the most part and also had constant pressure in his face. Oh... and just for the record... I think Stafford would have struggled yesterday, too.
  • The defense was a bit of a hodge-podge bunch yesterday. Overall, I thought they played well enough to win against what can be a pretty dynamic offense. For the most part, Roethlisberger wasn't allowed to buy a ton of time and we even got to him a few times. But there were also sequences where the past rush was noticeably absent, therefore Ben picked us apart. Those drives typically resulted in scores. There were some definite game-killers though. Some were the fault of the Lions, some were not. The phantom roughing the passer call on Academy Award nominated actor, Ben Roethlisberger, was simply horrible and resulted in a score. Then there was the huge secondary gaffe that allowed Mike Wallace to somehow come open down the middle of the field for a touchdown on a ball that seemed to float in the air forever. Maybe that was our penance for him dropping the sure TD catch earlier. Either way, I thought it was a decent outing defensively considering the injury situation and the opponent.
  • I wish that this coming weekend was our bye week. With all of the injuries on this team, we sure could use an extra week to heal and regroup. I know that it will be nice to have a week off and then play the winless Rams at home, but if we don't get some key players back, the Green Bay game will be brutal.
  • Very nice to see Derrick Williams have a solid game yesterday. One game doesn't make a season, but I was beginning to think that this might be the one glaring faux pas with the Lions' '09 draft class. As it looks right now... and I know that five weeks is far too short a time to make any bold predictions... this might be one of the best draft classes of all time for Detroit. With the exception of Lydon Murtha, who, by the way, sounds like he's getting better and better in practice, all of the '09 draft picks are contributing in games. What a phenomenal departure from the collective Millen drafts. This is how you build a talent base. This is how you create depth. This is the beginning stages of championship football.
  • I know this isn't related to the Lions game and I posted a comment on it yesterday, but thought I would mention this again because I think it's mind-blowing. Derek Anderson completed just 2 of 17 passes for 23 yards in the Browns win over the Bills yesterday. 2 of 17!!! That's a completion percentage of 11%! How exactly does he get to the 17th pass? Given his situation, meaning he is not viewed as "the answer" in Cleveland, how do you not bench the guy? I understand the Browns actually won the game, but how can you let the guy continue to humiliate himself? The Browns should hire Jim Colletto simply so that he can tell them that they really DO have a quarterback that can embarrass himself! And people wanted to trade for this guy last year? It's the classic Scott Mitchell effect. You never try to sign or trade for a guy after one good season. You need a body of work over several seasons to digest whether or not the player is worth a long term deal or trade. Case in point, Matt Cassel. I bet Pioli is sweating bullets in Kansas City. And to think, if we would have hired Pioli, we no doubt would have chased Cassel and had him instead of Delmas. We would not have Stafford, but probably have Aaron Curry. I like Curry, but Cassel and no Delmas? Oy! This also really speaks volumes about Brady Quinn and Mangini's obvious hatred of the kid. Mangini... pfft. The most overrated coach in football. Maybe if he took the wad of Big League Chew out of his mouth, the players and coaches could understand the plays he is calling and maybe his quarterback could complete a pass. Okay, my rant is finished... thanks for listening.

Sorry for the shorter post today guys, but it was a bit of a time crunch just to type up this much.  Here's to quick healing and a hopefully historic trip to Lambeau Field next week.

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Nice Drew

I’m honored – I’m the first to comment today (shows you how lame the investment banking world is nowadays.) Anyway, I wanted to say what I completely agree with your sentiments concerning:

1.) Derrick Williams
2.) BS roughing the passer call (which took away the Int.)
3.) The Lions were very very competitive. I know Coach Schwartz doesn’t believe in moral victories but I do and this was a moral victory by the Lions.

My biggest concern remains the secondary. Big Ben posted a season-high best passer rating (124) against us yesterday. Our defensive secondary plays way too soft and I don’t understand how opposing QB’s can consistently complete 70% of passes and week after week post career best passer ratings against us. It’s really disheartening (I know I beat this issue like a dead horse since last year but its a fact)

Anyway, good write-up as always Drew. I’m really hoping for a good game in Lambeau but I feel a big let down after this game. Rodgers may have a field day and we never, ever play well at Lambeau.

I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver

Pic - me and the great Herman Moore

by NYCLionsfan on Oct 12, 2009 2:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah....

the secondary has been my big concern since preseason. Not sure what we can do about it at this point. Getting pressure on the quarterback definitely helps, but I think we need a healthy Dewayne White and Cliff Avril to get that. My hope is that after the bye week, we come back refreshed and healthier.

by DrewsLions on Oct 12, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Daunte...

If only he could ‘finish’.

As soon as the lions got close to the redzone… his head went in in butt.

by CLF on Oct 12, 2009 3:11 PM EDT reply actions  

I know, and saw it coming

I knew it wouldn’t happen, but once we got that 1st down at the Steelers 21 (at the beginning of the 4th quarter, really), was hoping they’d put Stanton in to win it.

What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.

by GRLion on Oct 12, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great Post Drew,

I’m also in dis-belief of the “Phantom Roughing the Passer” call, I can’t believe the NFL is going this extreme with QB protection. This is two weeks in a row that questionable Roughing QB calls have had an impact on games. That call not only negated a INT, it gave them a 1st down that resulted in a touchdown.

Can’t put blame on the Refs though, when we have plays like that fumble that Mendenhall recovered. We had like four guys in there, they gotta get those!

Just a couple other side-notes. Did anyone see the DEN v. NE game?
1. WTF was Denver wearing? Those uniforms looked like the love child of an Old Steeler Uni, And an Oregon Ducks Pac 10 thing…. What the HELL?

2. I am in AWE that Denver is 5-0 with a 33 yr old Rookie Head Coach, and Kyle Orton as a Starting QB WTF,

3. If you watch McDaniels on the sideline, He is Freaking Out all over the place. It’s actually funny to watch. The guy must bang back 6-7 Fivehour Energys a Game, and he wears a hoodie,

by j16941 on Oct 12, 2009 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Schwartz....

I wanna see him next week at Lambeau in a Black Leather Jacket with the logo on the back, and Dark Black Glasses.

The whole Coaching Staff, TERMINATOR STYLE!

by j16941 on Oct 12, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahaha

that would be awesome

by ImPuLsE on Oct 12, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was an AFL

anniversary matchup… or something like that.

Those were the AFL Bronco jerseys… and if you noticed, the NE sideline wore the “Boston Patriots” wear.

Its just a merchandising play by the NFL.

by CLF on Oct 12, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

For the record,

I was always a Kyle Orton Fan…. Hell his record is 26-12. Must be that Tampa 2 brain that had Chicago starting Rex “am I still in the league” grossman.

by CLF on Oct 12, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I knew it was a throwback.

But if the Lions had an abomination like that in their closet. I’d never wanna see it brought back out!

by j16941 on Oct 12, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought they were

Sweet looking…. Did you notice those socks? WOO WOO…. Some of the players had ‘swirled’ them around their legs…lol.

by CLF on Oct 12, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did notice the Swirls

Maybe we can get Follet and the Special Teams, some “Z-IGER” Honolulu Blue and Silver Socks.

by j16941 on Oct 12, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does Josh McDaniels shop at the same thrift store as his mentor Belichick?

At least McDaniels doesn’t cut the sleeves off his crappy hoodies like Belichick does.

What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.

by GRLion on Oct 12, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was so funny to see him going crazy like that after the game

And I like how he and Belichick didn’t shake hands, even though Belichick was looking for McDaniels.

Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog

by Sean Yuille on Oct 12, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

McDaniels looks RABID... SHOOT HIM!

And the guy right behind him looks scared shitless…

by j16941 on Oct 12, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

The guy behind him looks a little like Mike Shanahan.....

Guess this was a bad time for Shanahan to show up and ask for his old job back.

What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.

by GRLion on Oct 13, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was classless.

1. Not shaking hands with the other coach before you celebrate uncontrollably.

I expect a 3 game losing streak is to follow.

by CLF on Oct 13, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry to say

But I can’t say we played terrific this game because we contended and had chances against the Steelers.
Fact: Steelers are 2-3… 1-3 coming in. Not close to where they were last year.
Fact: No Polamalu and no Parker goes a long way for an opponent. Lucky us or it could have been much worse.

I also wouldn’t consider Cherilus to be a great player. He’s capable of starting is stretching it.
Two, I don’t think Stafford gives us any better chance in this game. Too much Pitt pressure. Daunte escaped many situations that I found myself saying Stafford would have never gotten out of there. I mean there wasn’t even the NFL-norm 3 seconds in the pocket. Plus Daunte made only one mental error IMO, throwing the rookie INT.
I think our specialty players are better than average – QBs, RBs, WRs, TEs, LBs, K, P, and even our secondary (except Buchanon and SS) are solid. But our bigs suck donkey dick. Grady is slow and old but at least a number 2 DT still, White is about number 2 DE talent, Raiola and Cherilus are decent and still not sure about Loper but the rest suck. Backus is the worst player in the history of the Lions. This asshole is single-handedly responsible IMO for our failures… if it was possible to put it on one player. Peterman, Ramirez suck. Avril’s slumping. Cohen isn’t progressing. Hill is too raw still but at least talented. Hunter hasn’t caught my eye since week 1, quarter 1. The newbie-DLinemen are too new to say good or bad.
Hopefully, next year is all about the O and D line. Get ready fans, no possibility of an 8-8 season, lucky to see 5. We could also use a number 1 or 2 corner to opposite Henry and a top-tier SS but could suffice without if had a decent o and d line.
Bottom-line: We’re better than last year, but not by a long stretch like everyone thought (still think for some of you).

JF

by Lions Rant Artist on Oct 12, 2009 4:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Ummm. FACT: Steelers are 3-2... 2-2 coming in...

I think you need to get that part right or it kind of negates your validity… which for me it has. That…. and the totally negative rant that is off the mark. Your POD name is fitting……

by DrewsLions on Oct 12, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

soooo just to be clear

you are saying that we have improved in 5 offensive positions, in our lb corp and secondary, but the lions arent a significant improvement from last year……ohhhh kayy……

by IAmGross on Oct 12, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

a little bit much with the rant...

…but I would like to hear thoughts on Jeff Backus. Because I do sit during Lions games and watch Jeff Backus’ play with nothing short of disbelief. Does no one else see what I see? This guy isn’t even CLOSE to being able to handle opposing linemen. Now I know he faced James Harrison one-on-one a few times on Sunday and he’s the reigning Defensive Player of the Year, but Backus was embarrassed a handful of times in this game…and I just feel like I see it every week without fail. What do you guys think??

by abudjohn on Oct 12, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

D-Line

3 things I wanna point out hear.

I know it’s an excuse but Avril has been injured, and despite this, he still has 1.5 sacks and yesterday played quite well, he’s not an everydown DE yet, but he makes his mark.

Secondly, Hunter, while not as noticeable these past two weeks, performed quite well against the Vikings and the Redskins, where he managed a sack in each.

Lastly, you forgot to mention Fluellen, who currently has 1.5 sacks to his name, ain’t bad for the young fella.

2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).

by Hyperion Ecta on Oct 12, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Not too serious apparently. I’m still trying to get caught up, but I will have a post up later tonight.

Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog

by Sean Yuille on Oct 12, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who had Derrick Anderson as his starting fantasy QB? This guy!

I was banking on Seneca Wallace starting and panicked when I found out he wasn’t. Big mistake, although Anderson only got me like -.88 points.

Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog

by Sean Yuille on Oct 12, 2009 5:39 PM EDT reply actions  

OUCH!

I have Brees in both leagues and he was on a bye. I had Trent Edwards to fill in 1 of them and about 2 min before kick-off, I dumped Edwards and picked up Hasselbeck from FA. I had a hunch.

by JazzyBBP on Oct 12, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice

I had Edwards too on the team where I started Anderson. Didn’t even realize it until after. I was just going to pick up Hasselbeck, but someone else had him. I was pissed, to say the least.

Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog

by Sean Yuille on Oct 12, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great write-up, Drew

I agree about C-Pep, he was OK although that intentional grounding was just as bone-headed as the pick he threw. And the fumbles, WTF? Will HGH injected into just his hands help?
BTW, not to nit-pick, but Gronkowski is on the PS with Murtha. I agree about this draft class though. So far, SOLID. And I was cursing my TV on draft weekend…
The Lions have a long way to go, but they are finally headed into the right direction.
Quick trivia- who were Millens first 2 firings? Hughes and Colbert, the 2 guys in charge of the Steelers and built them to win multiple SBs. Thanks for nothing Matt Millen, I’d slap him but shit splatters.

by JazzyBBP on Oct 12, 2009 6:08 PM EDT reply actions  

LOL about Millen

Great catch about Hughes and Colbert, I’d forgotten about that.

What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.

by GRLion on Oct 12, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Millen......he who shall never be named....

First off awsome post as usual Drew.

Second, is it just me or does the site of “Hewhoshallnotbenamed” (my kids are reading Potter sue me) on t.v. just grate the hell out of you. I see him and hear the words coming from his yap and they even are insightful and relevent to the topic..but i dont care…all i can think is YOU RUINED MY TEAM YOU HEAPING PILE OF GARBAGE!!!!! Now what shocks me is i am NOT a guy that holds alot of vitriol for people, especially in sports, (I save that kind of thing for the REAL bad guys like pedophiles, terrorists, and Packer fans…kidding of course…..terrorists are people too.) I mean the guy sucked at his job yes and to be honest i was a big homer for the guy when he was hired, but to have such hate for the man? Yikes…i hope i havent discovered some pent up serial killer. LOL

by Scotishreb on Oct 12, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the sight of him does make me sick. Tonight, he was right-on with his little breakdown and analysis, but all I could think of when he was speaking was “STFU Matt”. I was optimistic when he was first hired also, but I truely hate the man. I might’ve had a shred of respect for him if he’d have resigned on his own instead of just waiting out to be fired, but fuck him and his big fat double-chin yap.

by JazzyBBP on Oct 12, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I missed Danny Boy

I forgot all about Gronkowski when I wrote this up. Okay, so 8 out of 10 (I think) isn’t bad. But Gronkowski is a Fitzsimmons injury away from being active. And if we Lion’s fans know Fitzsimmons… that is going to happen at some point. He showed good hands and decent blocking in the preseason.

by DrewsLions on Oct 12, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

You and Sean do a great job with the game breakdowns. It really helps me get through my Mondays and I really appreciate it. I just want to say thanks to the both of you and keep up the great work.

by JazzyBBP on Oct 13, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good post, as usual Drew

I was pretty happy with our effort against the Steelers. I fully expected a 35-7 sorta scoreline but being in the game during the 4th quarter gave me a lot of hope. Depending on injuries, I think our game against GB could be winnable….maybe.

I know it’s been discussed a lot, but Daunte’s performance didn’t disappoint me. He had his share of mistakes, which you don’t wanna see from a vet but he did a good job of keeping us in the contest so I can’t fault his performance too much. In saying that, we need Stafford back, preferably next week.

I think the problem with our Defence is that for every good play we manage (3rd down stop, sack, INT) there is at least 3 bad ones (no pressure, missed tackles, blown coverage). It’s hard to win when every good thing you do is negated by some bad.

This draft class looks to be a great one…at the moment. Before the season, I was thinking maybe 4 players would be contributors…now, I’m thinking around 7 could be solid in this league…that’s huge for a draft.

Last point….2/17!!!!!!! That is just terrible, I mean, I get a touch upset if you can’t manage better than 40%, but only two passes complete? I don’t even wanna think about it anymore. Before I do that though, you gotta think how utterly shocking the Bills were to still lose that game….makes me feel much better about the Lions.

2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).

by Hyperion Ecta on Oct 12, 2009 7:14 PM EDT reply actions  

I know what you mean on the 3 for 1 with the defense, Hyperion

I agree that it seems like one step forward, two or three steps back for the defense. Will James gets the beautiful pick-six, then gets completely burned on the Mike Wallace TD down centerfield. That’s what you get with mediocre talent. And that’s what we have until next year. The 2010 draft needs to be all about the D-Line and Secondary.

As for the Derek Anderson debacle… can you image if Culpepper or Stafford had that kind of day???? I mean the Lion’s fans would hold a public flogging at Allen Park. Just can’t understand how you don’t bench the guy at the half. I would be ALL for benching Stafford if he was 2 of 17…. That doesn’t mean you give up on him, but something obviously isn’t clicking on that particular day….

by DrewsLions on Oct 12, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't forget O-Line

There’s still way to many areas that are void of great talent… would take another 2 good drafts to fill em I think.

2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).

by Hyperion Ecta on Oct 13, 2009 7:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Keep Your Heads Up Lions Fans

As a Broncos fan, I enjoy the love McDaniels is getting here. Let me say this, I’ve kind of liked the Lions all my life. I really think Jim Schwartz is turning things around and next year, you might be like my Broncos. Just draft well and don’t worry about what the haters say. If you could find the equivalent of Brian Dawkins in free agency, that would help too. Good luck to the Lions!

Brad James

by the Bradfather on Oct 12, 2009 7:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks dude. I thought the Broncos were going to be a mess but they are playing great. Nice win for you guys yesterday. And the Dawkins thing? We’re developing our own “Dawkins”. His name is Louis Delmas and the kid has alot of potential.

by JazzyBBP on Oct 12, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks

…and we will keep our heads up. I like that you guys are playing well after all the offseason crap you had to go through. Always liked the Elway-led Broncos and good to see you all out to a nice start. But….. what the hell was with the brown and yellow jerseys??? I can’t image any era of time where those were considered stylish! Ha… but you beat Belichick with them, so good for you.

by DrewsLions on Oct 12, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Culpepper's a bum, what is Stafford?

Whoa! “Fumblitis,” " just plain stupidity." “infamous perception as a dink-and-dunker,” " very small window of time where he actually looks at his downfield receivers," can’t handle pressure, etc.

Uh, Drew, do you mind if we compare Culpepper’s performance to Stafford’s? Let’s throw out the first two games and jump to the Lions win against the Redskins. Stafford — 241 yards, 58% completion percentage, 1 TD, no interceptions, 23 yards rushing, 87.8 QB rating.
Culpepper — 282 yards, 62.2 % completion percentage, 1 TD, 1 interception, 44 yards rushing, 83.4 QB rating.

I realize Stafford is still developing, but are you saying that the whole “best quarterback will start” thing was just a ruse? Do you think the Pittsburgh’s defense maybe was a little more challenging than Washington’s? Do you think it might have been a little tougher to find an open receiver with CJ on the bench?

I have no reason to doubt that Stafford is everything the coaches believe he is. Therefore I believe the reason he ranks 31st among current quarterbacks has something to do with the talent around him and not just his personal limitations. I believe the Manning brothers would struggle somewhat with the current cast as well. So isn’t it a little ridiculous on your part to expect Culpepper to play a perfect game on his first NFL start in nine months?

By the way, listening to the crowd noise on the television broadcast, I’d have thought the game was at Pittsburgh.

by Montesa_vr on Oct 12, 2009 8:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Okay, so you take...

a few excerpts from my post and use them out of context? I said Culpepper did an okay job, did I not? Do you think he was fantastic? Not sure what game you were watching if that’s the case. Also, I did not say anything in my article about Stafford except that I thought he would have struggled too. I think you are taking a few liberties here. As to address my specifics quotes…..

1. “Fumblitis”: Culpepper has had this problem his ENTIRE career. This is not because of Sunday’s game. This is his history, pure and simple.

2. “just plain stupidity”: Watch that play again and tell me if you can come up with something more descriptive. An 11-year vet throwing off his back foot, across his body into a bevy of black and gold jerseys. Like I said, stupidity.

3. "infamous perception as a dink-and-dunker": Is he not known on this site and other Lion’s blog sites as showing far too much conservatism? That is what is known as a “perception”… look it up… I’m sure you own a dictionary. If not, you can easily find one online to help.

4. “very small window of time where he actually looks at his downfield receivers”: This is what I’ve seen from Daunte over the years and more specifically with the Lions this year. I have watched all four preseason games several times and saw it then extensively. I was specifically watching for it again yesterday and indeed saw that same tendency. Watch the game again for yourself and key on Daunte’s eyes and head. The minute the pockets starts to close in, he immediately looks either down or brings his head down and focuses towards the middle of the field. Do a little research yourself. If you find something other than that, then come argue with me.

I didn’t really say he can’t handle pressure. I just said he has a tendency to scramble or check it down too often. The knock on Daunte has always been his ability to read defenses. Like it or not, he acts like that when he doesn’t have ample time to adjust to the defense. Sad, but apparently true. But his game is his mobility and it’s served him well. I don’t knock him for that.

I never expected Culpepper to play a perfect game. I said as much in my post. I’m not sure you actually read it… I think you skimmed it. Because I’m not sure how you inferred all of this from what I wrote. I don’t mind people disagreeing with what I write, but I think you are making a lot of assumptions here.

by DrewsLions on Oct 12, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

dink and dunk

Yeah, I’m not arguing the interception was a smart play. How would you characterize Rothlesberger’s pick six ? The fact is that every quarterback makes terrible throws or terrible decisions in almost every game. So you could probably trot out your “just plain stupidity” phrase pretty often. But you reserved it for Culpepper.

What riles me is the dink and dunk thing. Here are Culpeppers longest throws against Pittsburgh: 27, 25, 23, 19, 19, 17, 16, 16

Here are Stafford’s longest throws against the Redskins: 24, 24, 20, 18, 15, 12.

Yeah, Culpepper threw conservatively during the preseason. What that has to do with Sunday’s game is what I don’t get. Culpepper’s 7.6 yards per attempt rank him about half way between those famous 2009 dink and dunkers Drew Bledsoe and Kurt Warner. So my real issue is I think the dink and dunk charge says more about your preconceived notions than about the way Culpepper played.

by Montesa_vr on Oct 12, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just wanna clear up something here

Those numbers you put up of his longest throws aren’t all indicitive of aggressive play. His longest, the 27 yd one was to Felton and he made most of those yards and the other 23 yarder was a screen to Kevin Smith.

I’m not saying Culpepper was all dink and dunk, because he wasn’t, he took a few shots and he made some good plays, but on the whole, Stafford plays more aggressively.

2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).

by Hyperion Ecta on Oct 12, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why the big front for Culpepper?

I don’t understand this. I really didn’t overemphasize him one way or the other. I didn’t say that he sucked, but really didn’t praise him either. He just tends to take the short stuff more often than not. I think you got your panties in a twist for nothing here.

You are acting like I have an agenda… like I’m “outta get Daunte”. Whatever. I have better things to do with my time. Sure, I’d much rather have Stafford in there, but that is because he represents the future and there is more to gain long-term. But I was rooting hard for Daunte to win that game, so don’t spew your pias “preconceived notion” crap my way. I call it like I see it. Culpepper tends to get conservative when he is pressured.

BTW… those attempts you mentioned… what were the completion percentages for them… Culpepper vs. Stafford. Not that I am starting a war here… but just curious. I’m just guessing that they wouldn’t be in Daunte’s favor.

by DrewsLions on Oct 12, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good post Drew

At least you are not throwing Culpepper to the wolves in light of the three consecutive sacks at the end of the game……

You are absolutely right…..Daunte did make a bad decision on the INT. He was under a ton of pressure though, with Backus and Ramirez doing the old “Look out Daunte” blocking techniques on the left side of the O-line. Harrison blew by them like they were standing still (uhhh, maybe because they were?), and it did not help matters that it was a blown play from the very beginning. For whatever reason (in my opinion it was Daunte’s fault, but it could have been Kevin Smith’s fault too….I’m not sure, but it did look like it was intended to be a play action pass), there was a miscommunication between Culpepper and Smith, resulting in Culpepper dropping the ball like he was trying to hand it off to Smith. By the time he scooped it up (and this is where he should have likely just fallen on the ball or ran toward the LOS in an attempt to make the loss as small as possible), Harrison was already in his face. He turned and threw the ball off of his back foot, across the field…..in the vicinity of Bryant Johnson, who was actually open. Unfortunately, the ball sailed high and was picked off. It was a dumb move, because no QB should throw across their body, across the field, off their back foot…..my only explanation is that he must have thought he could throw it away (but that is weak, because it wasn’t even close). However, that mistake is not what cost the Lions the game.

Daunte completed over 62% of his passes, for 282 yards, 1 TD, and 1 INT. He helped the team to convert 11 of 18 3rd downs (61%). He also had 44 yards rushing. He looked very good in my opinion, being that it was his first start and it was against the Steelers. The Steelers are one of the best teams in the league at effectively blitzing and disguising their blitzes. In my opinion, Daunte Culpepper was not the reason the Lions lost the game. In my opinion it was the offensive line, the play calling (too conservative), and the play of our secondary. Culpepper made mistakes, but like you said, Stafford would have likely struggled too. I think any QB would have struggled behind our line in that game. I’m glad you said you thought Culpepper played okay….

I have read what Montesa is saying…..and I have to agree to a point. Culpepper is not a traditional “dink and dunker”. My opinion, as I think you well know, is that it is not the player who is overly conservative…..it is the person calling the plays. In defense of Linehan, if he had been calling deep passes all game long, we would have gotten blown out instead of being in the game like we were. It was out of necessity that Culpepper threw the number of short passes that he did, not because he is overly conservative in his passing. In fact, I think he would much rather be able to air it out and throw the deep ball all day long…..that is the easiest pass for any QB to throw. Just reach back and throw it as hard and as far as you can, and let CJ (or Randy Moss) run under it. It is the short throws that require finesse and ability to successfully make those types of throws. I also agree with Montesa that Culpepper took just as many shots down field as Stafford has in any game in the regular season, and he even completed 8 of them (5 on 3rd and long). To say he is prone to conservative passing is one sided, sorry to say…..but that is how I see it.

by KDawg on Oct 12, 2009 10:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks, KDawg

I really wasn’t that upset with Culpepper’s play. For the circumstances, I thought he did well. The pick was bad, but the fumbles were a bit more bothersome for me. Yes, he fell on them, but he continues with a long-standing problem he’s had in the NFL.

As for the dink-and-dunk thing… I don’t know. I base games on “feel” a little more on stats… because, what Montesa is trying to show, is skewed. Some of those “long” completions are screens and dump-offs that turn into long gains. But as I watched the game, I just felt like he wasn’t keeping his eyes downfield. Maybe I’m seeing something that isn’t there… I haven’t watched the game a second time… but I swear, he is checking off his downfield reads way too fast when pressure gets near him. The reason that I watch for that is because I noticed it a long time ago when he was with Minnesota. Not that I’m biased… he’s a Lion now and that’s all that matters to me… but I used to hate that about him and call him out when we played him (even though they beat us most times). I still see those same tendencies today.

Anyway… he played well enough and it wasn’t him that cost us the game. From my point of view it was the o-line again. They are playing better, but just not good enough.

On a personal note… how are you doing, my friend? You are not posting as much lately. Everything going okay, considering? For me… my anniversary is… well, today (now that it’s Midnight – Oct. 13th). Going to be a rough day. Hope you are doing well, though.

by DrewsLions on Oct 13, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm getting by.....

Just going day to day right now. Thanks for asking. I haven’t posted a lot lately because I thought that everyone else has been covering things pretty well. I haven’t had anything productive to say. I have tried to keep quiet on quite a few posts, because I do not want another POD bashes Kale because of his minority opinion episode. I have been doing better at controlling my anger lately too, because for one I want to be allowed to keep posting here, and for two it just isn’t worth it. I have had moments where I just wanted to rip into some people, but I have been able to refrain (unlike times in the recent past).

Anyway, I see where you are coming from on Culpepper…..however I would point out that regardless of how it gets done, if a pass goes for 12-20 yards I am extremely happy about it. I could care less if a QB takes shots downfield unless a WR is wide open and he just doesn’t see it. I do not think that has been the case with Culpepper, and I really think that a majority of the short passes have come on designed plays to that effect. I did not like the fumbles or the INT either….and there is no excuse for them. But the three consecutive sacks at the end of the game? Those were not Daunte Culpepper’s fault, regardless of what other people here are saying. I agree with you that the offensive line cost us the game, and that is all I can say about that.

As far as stats telling the whole story, you and I have had this conversation many times now. We agree that while stats are a useful measure, they do not paint the entire picture. I agree that the outcome in yards of Daunte’s passes do not mean that they were not short passes to begin with. However, we did convert 11 of 18 on 3rd down…..so like I said, as long as the chains are moving, what difference does it make?

by KDawg on Oct 13, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

After all the crap you gave to Stafford...

I felt it necessary to ‘return to sender’.

by CLF on Oct 13, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't necessarily feel the play-calling itself was conservative....at least in the passing game

As we know, on any given pass play there are a number of routes being run by various receivers……some are long, some are short. The primary receiver doesn’t always get the ball. Before the snap, pre-snap reads by the QB. After the snap, the QB goes through his progression and sees who he thinks he can throw it to…….meanwhile, the pass rush is coming his way. If a QB consistently throws “conservative” short passes, I put that on him, it’s his decision…..not the Offensive Coordinator’s. It’s execution by the QB, not the play-calling. This is especially true if other QB’s on the roster are able to throw deep more often. And if those deep throws by other QB’s are sucessful…..even more so.

What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.

by GRLion on Oct 13, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

And this brings up a thought about I had after Game 2

By the same token, I hold Stafford, not Linehan, responsible for the conservative passes in Game 2 against the Vikings. I saw it as a rookie overcompensating for his mistakes in Game 1. Not surprising, really…..was to be expected at some point. I sorta saw it coming. Add in a little survivor guilt over beating out Pep for the starting job, plus a sense by Staff that he somehow had to prove he could play conservative too….and there you are.

In fact, this may put into greater context the now-famous comment Schwartz made to Stafford in the elevator after the Game 3 win over Washington:

“Dont you ever get conservative on me.”

The kid made mistakes in his first game as a rookie, like all rookies do. Then he overcompensated in his second game, trying to be too conservative. In his 3rd game, he gained a sense of balance, and regained his aggressiveness. I put it all on Staff. Who he threw those passes were his decisions. It’s execution by the QB. I don’t blame Linehan…….he’s called some brilliant plays…..I have confidence in his overall play-calling.

What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.

by GRLion on Oct 13, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was at the game

And let me just say, what an embarrassment at the amount of Steeler fans showed up. I tailgated, and it looked like it was 60% Steeler fans. When I was waiting in line to get into Ford Field, it looked like it was 80% Steeler fans. I was beginning to wonder if the Lions were going to come out in their away jerseys. When the Lions had 3rd down, it was louder than when the Steelers had 3rd down. I’ve never seen anything like it, and hope to never again see the 12th man on the field dominated by the visiting team.

by Ken K on Oct 12, 2009 10:25 PM EDT reply actions  

I'll say

I’ve developed an unrational hatred toward Sanchez and the Jets.

2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).

by Hyperion Ecta on Oct 13, 2009 7:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

+100

We will always hate Sanchez due to the inevitable comparisons with Staff

I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver

Pic - me and the great Herman Moore

by NYCLionsfan on Oct 13, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

WOW>....

Man did Sanchez throw some Zingers though…. HOOOO AHHHHH!

by CLF on Oct 13, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

GO lions

beat them up at Lambeau.. heal quick.. shock em

GO LIONS 2009! the transformation begins.

by DINORDO on Oct 13, 2009 8:15 AM EDT reply actions  

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