Some thoughts to dwell on...
by Latif Masud on Oct 7, 2009 2:36 PM EDT
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PrintWe are four weeks into the '09 season, and this season is already a hundred times better than the previous. We got a coach who seems to know what he's doing (first time we can say that in a looong time), and team that seems to have pretty decent talent (I'm comparing to other low-rung teams like the Raiders, Chiefs, and whatnot). Still, we have our issues, and here are few that puzzle me:
O-line: the Lions did plenty this offseason to shore up the defensive line, bringing in three new starters, and several new players on that side of the ball. However, they did next to nothing to solve the offensive line problems. True, they brought in Jansen and Salaam, but lets face it, we don't need aging backups at this point. We need starters. The reason I bring this up is because I think there could've been a great solution to their problem in the draft. The day before the trade, Philadelphia sent the 28th pick and a fourth rounder for Jason Peters (possibly the best left tackle in the game). The Lions had the 20th pick, which they could have easily surrendered for a player of his caliber, and the Bills would have certainly taken the 20th plus a fifth rounder or so over Philly's offer. Then they could've moved Backus to left guard. I believe this would've given them a solid line if not one of the better offensive lines in the league. Now, don't get me wrong, I love Brandon Pettigrew; he's a physical beast like CJ, but at the end of the day, he is still just a tight end, and a franchise left tackle is more important than a franchise tight end.
Aaron Brown: I really don't get this guy. One day he looks like he could jump Kevin Smith on the depth chart, the next he looks like belongs in the practice squad. With that said, I believe the Lions should look into converting him into a wideout. Brown has great speed, good hands that can get better with reps as a receiver. Plus, he has the makes (6'1, 196 lbs) of a typical NFL receiver rather than a running back. I don't think that Bryant Johnson is the right answer to starting opposite of Megatron. We need someone who stretch the field, and can make plays when the opportuned moment (ie double coverage on Calvin) arrives. This sounds a lot like AB to me, and I hope the Lions take a serious look at it.
3-4 scheme: With their newfound depth at the linebacker position, and virtually no depth on the d-line, I think the lions should consider adding a 3-4 scheme to their defense. I'm not saying that they should play 3-4 all the time, but I think that there are situations where they could use it effectively. Ever since DeAndre Levy's great game against the Redskins, fans have been debating whether Sims or Levy should play. Well, I say why not both? Lets face it, the linebackers on this team are the playmakers of this defense (aside from Delmas of course), and the more we have out there, the better our chances will be. Plus, our two key off-season acquisitions: Larry Foote and Julian Peterson are accustomed to playing in the 3-4. In addition, I think the 3-4 would also allow us to get some pass rush on the opposing teams QB. We have figured out by now that our d-line cannot do that, but we have linebackers like Peterson who can easily apply pressure under the right scheme.
Final thoughts: For me, this season has already been better than the last two or three just because we have some things to be excited about (now and the future). A no. 1 draft choice who not only looks like the quarterback of the future, but also the leader of the future (something we have lacked in the past decade or so). In addition, we also have a coach that not only understands football, but also understands humanities. Its funny, but I think that Jim Schwartz understands the meaning of going 0-16 more than the coach that actually went 0-16.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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i was thinking about the 3-4 scheme
i thinking getting Levy on the field should be something that Schwartz has to do, but i do know that converting to a different philosophy on defense is not something you just snap your fingers and do. we do have the players to achieve this in my opinion.
Proud Detroit Lions season ticket holder since.......2009 !!
That's exactly what I was thinking
You need a good D ends that can get pass rush in order to run a 3-4
Although
I wouldn’t mind seeing a package or 2 that would get Levy, Sims, Peterson, and Foote all in every once in awhile
of course
im not saying that they do it week 5, but maybe by week 8 or 9, they could get a scheme together
Thoughts
Point 1- I’m a Pettigrew backer, so I’d probably defend him to the hilt but I believe Grew was the better choice compared to what was offered at the time. Oher might’ve been good but I’m still a bit iffy on his ability to stay consistent. Jason Peters isn’t all that good in my opinion and I wouldn’t of approved of a move to pick him up.
Point 2- I don’t know why you though Aaron Brown could’ve jumped Smith on the depth chart. Brown has shown potential with a couple of good runs but it’s about being consistent. He’s still very young and Smith has proven that he can be a good RB in this league. I also don’t think Brown is looking at a future at WR, if anything, a change of pace back is on the cards.
Point 3- A 3-4 scheme doesn’t seem to fit our personnel. Unless Schwartz starts making moves for the future in this direction, I think we are gonna stay as a 4-3.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
more thoughts
point 1: Jason Peters is a hell of a better tackle than Backus, and he’s still pretty young, so I think it would have been a great move, but hey these are just our opinions.
point 2: ya, i guess i over exaggerated brown jumping smith on the depth chart (im still thinking about the first preseason game, when he was explosive). and ya ur most likely right about AB having no future at WR, but I think they could use him more there because they already have a solid core of running backs.
point 3: I know we are gonna stay at 4-3. we brought in a defensive coordinator than ran the 4-3 with great success, but my point was that we could have a 3-4 package for situations, and for just small packages, your personnel does not have to be perfect
I'm hoping we see a few 3-4 packages
Because I think changing up the D can be effective, if done correctly of course.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Oct 7, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Latif nice post first off.
I think you are right about switching to the 3-4 “next year” not this one, as much as I agree with you that we have better LB’s than D-linemen you just can’t flick the switch on scheme’s but I think you knew that before you typed that. We would need more beef from the front 3 in order to do that and maybe in the draft we get those guys it’s hard to read this new regime. They seem to do the right thing every week and when it comes to the draft they blew every one of us away by taking the best available player at a certain position. Is the top pick next year going to be a lineman? I think so but I don’t want to guess what side of the ball it’s going to be on since Swartz and Mayhew seemto have an inside tip on guys that are going to be available prior to anyone else getting wind of it. Hyper just said a lot of what I was going to say about some of your other points especially Grew. This guy “pending injury” is going to be a special player for us for years to come, and you have to see that. Damn you Hyper you litteraly just stole my thunder you man from down under.
Sorry Davis
Gotta be quick in this day and age.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Oct 7, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
one last thing...
i luv (in a football way) pettigrew too, but seeing the lions line struggle game after game, year after year..i think they really needed to find a solution to that problem right away, but of course, them being the lions, they did jack this offseason
Nice post
I probably don’t agree with it all, but it’s intriguing nonetheless. Maybe a few situational 3-4 packages, like HE said, but keep the base 4-3. The Peters thing is interesting, but I haven’t watched him enough to have an informed opinion. I do like ’Grew, though.
I like that last sentence about understanding the meaning of 0-16. Rod never got it. He still doesn’t get it.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Peters
Gave up the most sacks in the NFL last year. Part of it has to be circumstance but he’s not a top 5 tackle like some people are thinking.
at worst a top 10 tackle
a top ten tackle in the league, who’s only 27, for the 20th pick in the draft is a pretty good deal in my opinion
The beginning of the end of the misery
What makes you so sure
he’s a top ten tackle? He gave up 11.5 sacks in 13 games last year and while that stat isn’t perfect, it’s worse than what Backus gave up. A lot of my Bills fans have said he’s been getting by on reputation and while he’s a pretty good run blocker, he’s too inconsistent in pass blocking to be considered a great tackle. He has the tools to block anyone but he has too many mental lapses apparently. I wouldn’t put him in the top 10 unless I could be sure he’s gonna protect our QB’s back.
And I don’t think a guy who might barely be a top 10 tackle is worth the 20th pick, a 4th rounder, and a 2010 6th rounder for sure.
by seven.twentytwo on Oct 8, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
what makes me sure???
what makes me so sure? peters has a played left tackle for about 3 years now, and has made two pro bowls out of those three. ya of course the guy is gonna suck a little at pass blocking, he was originally a tight end, then a left guard, now a left tackle. it takes some first round rookies ,who have played the same position throughout their entire life, years to develop into good nfl players. the fact that he has progressed this far this fast is pretty damn impressive.
and r u actually comparing backus to peters? when’s the last time backus made a pro bowl.
the only reason buffalo fans are pissed and are underrating him is because peters, by demanding more money or a trade, pretty much walked out on that team.
The beginning of the end of the misery
correction..
peters never played left guard..i misread. but still, basically 3 years of playing LT, and two pro bowls are unquestionable
The beginning of the end of the misery
Ahh yes, "Unquestionable" Pro Bowls
Brett Favre really earned that Pro Bowl last year. Roy Williams really was a Pro Bowl player; too bad he got cut by the Cowboys right after, etc. You’re gonna have to do a little better than Pro Bowl appearances to convince me of anything, especially at o-line where it’s so much reputation-based. Allowing the most sacks in the league has to count for something; even if those stats are a little inaccurate, it’s not gonna rate a top 5 pass blocker as the worst outright.
Unless you’re a scout who can evaluate that kind of thing, you have no idea whether it’s “easily worth a 20 pick”. Maybe the Lions scouts kicked the tires on the idea and didn’t like what they saw. Maybe that was an incorrect sentiment. But I really doubt you have the information to correctly make that judgment.
And be fair to Buffalo fans, they recognized he was playing much worse after the holdout last year before they traded him. How much of it was because he missed camp and how much of it is his true talent? I’m not sure.
by seven.twentytwo on Oct 8, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
true to a degree
ya im not a nfl scout (although i wish i was), but neither r u. and ya ur right to a degree about o-line pro bowlers being based on rep. but we gotta remember this guy has been playing on the line for only three years, that means he BUILT a rep. ya, guys like walter jones, and whatnot (aging lineman) purely make the pro bowl based on rep, but young players have to work for it, and thats why its so impressive.
ya, its tought to say whether i have the judgement to evaluate players, but this is blog site, its about opnions, not actually calling the shots
and to the buffalo fan thing: i didnt really mean it in a bad way. I would be pretty pissed too if a pro bowler on my team walked out, too. and naturally, fans usually find reasons to hate the guy. Remember Roy Williams, there was a time when we use to love the guy…we stopped lovin him when he became a jackass.
The beginning of the end of the misery
I'm not sure I follow the logic on Peters being a top-10 LT
If he sucks a little at pass blocking, he’s not a top 10 tackle.
If he sucks a little at pass blocking because he played other positions….we don’t care, that’s irrelevant. We don’t care if he sucks because the dog ate his homework. If he sucks, he sucks. All we care about is how good he is at tackle…..which is not top 10, if he sucks a little at pass blocking.
The fact that he made 2 Pro Bowls certainly doesn’t refute the theory that some players make the Pro Bowl based on reputation.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Thoughts on the 3-4
I love it. I love the flexibility. Can the Lions run it? Well, maybe, but it comes with a price too.
The 3-4 requires 3 big f-in dlineman (BFDL), including one really big guy in the middle. I think we can agree that G. Jackson is a BFDL and can clog up the middle. In addition, White has the size to play one DE. Can Hill play the other? Maybe. That might work. But what that does is pull our best passrushing DL, Avril, off the field (is he back by the way?). The end result is we get our 4 LBs in, while losing another of our best players. Kind of a catch 22.
True
But for the purposes of this discussion, and with the purpose of getting our 4 LBs (Foote, Peterson, Sims, Levy) on the field at the same time, Avril would have to come off because he’s too small to play DE in a 3-4 alignment.
by WBL on Oct 8, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
well...
i was actually thinking of fluellen at the other DE spot..hes a converted DT and has more than enough size, so i think he would be a perfect fit (of course he has to step up and show that he can play the position). As far as avril goes, ya we cant get the 4 lbs+ avril in there at once, but i think it would be intriguing to see what avril could do at OLB spot in a 3-4.
The beginning of the end of the misery
Avril could deal with OLB in 3-4
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Oct 8, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
The 3-4 should be a thought for next season. It is to late for a change now, start prepping for next year.
and say a casey hampton
who i think will follow the larry foote school of being released by the steelers…much talk about it the offseason prior…no dice…plays the year…gets released in the offseason following
they're gonna stick with the 4-3..
schwartz was brought in to run the 4-3, along with the gun. there is no way they switch their entire def into a 3-4. i just hope they have 3-4 packages in the future
The beginning of the end of the misery
I think they should coach up Avril
into a flex position, a hybrid DE/ OLB. Stand him up as an OLB on occassion in a 3-4. Have his hand on the ground in a 4-3. Teach him some coverage drops, etc.
by WBL on Oct 9, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
tackle position
it is very hard in the middle of the season to adress the o-line. if the lions want to fix their o-line they should draft Russel Okung out of OK state in the draft in april. take okung at LT and move backus to LG, then the complexion of the o-line completly changes because Okung and Pettigrew were teamates in college and were considered the best o-line in the country. also bryant johnson has played fine this year. I mean he is not going to put up huge numbers but is a servicable number two for the lions, on a team tht has above average receivers then he is a number three.
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