With the 4th pick of the 2010 NFL Draft, The Detroit Lion select Russell Okung
by KDawg on Nov 24, 2009 9:52 PM EST
83 comments
Guys, I posted what I am about to say in a different thread, but it was so long that I am not sure if anyone will reply to it without making it a different Fanpost all together. So anyway, here it is:
Since it is likely that Suh will be gone and I do not see McCoy or Cody as top 5 picks, I think the Lions will opt for the best LT at pick 4, and that is Okung.
Therefore I would be looking for us to take a DT in round 2…..like one of McCoy, Cody, Arthur Jones, or maybe Marvin Austin (if one of them falls to the second round) or one of Geno Atkins, Jared Odrick, DeMarcus Granger, or D’Anthony Smith if the other 4 are gone in round 1. The biggest problems with these guys is that Jones projects as a DE in a 3-4 (at 295 lbs), McCoy will be a solid 4-3 DT but he is not worth a top 5 pick, Cody projects as an anchor type DT in a 3-4, Marvin Austin is a Junior who may not declare at all, and the other 4 guys are marginal as prospective starters (and I am unsure of how well they fit our 4-3 scheme).
That said, if Marvin Austin delcares (and Gerald McCoy is taken in the 1st round) I like him the most of who will likely be available at pick 4 of round 2. If McCoy is still there, then it is a no brainer…..we draft McCoy.
If we were to follow this LT/DT idea, and we were looking at corners in round 3, it is quite likely that Javier Arenas, Myron Lewis, and Stephan Virgil will still be available. All three are projected as likely starters, but I definitely like Arenas best of these. Of course, we might also be looking in the opposite direction here and go for LeGarrette Blount (CLF would love this) or Jon Asamoah (the guard from Illinois).
Then in round 4, if we were looking at a guard and if we followed my idea of LT/DT/CB, it is likely that Mike Johnson (Alabama) would still be there. He is projected as a likely starter, and he is a solid interior lineman. If we went RB or G in round 3, our choices at CB will likely be pretty slim in round 4…..so much so that we would likely be looking at a safety in round 4 (such as Chad Jones if he declares (projected as a likely starter)). While Mike Johnson would be a good pick in my opinion, it may be in our best interests to take a WR such as Bryan Anderson out of CMU (6’5, 215…..sure hands) here. I think the deepest positions in this draft are at Guard and Safety, and I think we can get very good ones in the 5th and 6th rounds.
If the choices were LT/DT/CB/G, and we were then looking at safeties in round 5, it is likely that we would be reaching for a safety that we could get in the 6th or 7th round. That is another reason I say we should draft a WR in round 4 (and I really like Bryan Anderson as a WR2). If we drafted a Bryan Anderson in round 4 (so now our picks would have been LT/DT/CB/WR), it is likely that Dan Doering (the guard out of Iowa who is projected as a likely starter) will be available. Iowa has been surprisingly good this year, and Doering is one of the big reasons why.
If we were to pick LT/DT/CB/WR/G, and were then still looking at needing a safety or a KR/RB, I think we could get a pretty damn good safety in Ahmad Black (from Florida) if he delcares (maybe even in round 7!). So if Black did declare, and we thought he would fall to us in the 7th, we could look at a guy like Ben Tate at RB in round 6. I don’t know much about the RB prospects, other than the higher round ones, but I have heard Tate’s name a few times this season and I have seen him play.
In conclusion, here is a mockup (assuming everyone declares):
Round 1 – Russell Okung OT Oklahoma
Round 2 – Marvin Austin DT North Carolina
Round 3 – Javier Arenas CB Alabama
Round 4 – Bryan Anderson WR Central Michigan
Round 5 – Dan Doering G Iowa
Round 6 – Ben Tate RB Auburn
Round 7 – Ahmad Black S Florida
Whack away....:o)
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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we befor i read
1st pick -like it
2nd pick like it
3rd pick (i rather it be a DE we need a true pass rush)
4th it is to late to be used the way we need it to be rather the be that C from Notre dame or a CB
5th not bad
5th b not there
6th agene kind of late to be used why we need it to be..
7th not to bad assuming he can all so play ST
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
what i would like with links
1st DT Ndamukong Suh Height 6-4 Weight 302
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/563145
2nd LT Jason Fox Height: 6-7 Weight: 314
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1116608
3rd DE Rahim Alem – H: 6-3 W: 262
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1116419
4th CB Akwasi Owusu-Ansah 6-1 205 (if he is there. Can return kicks and punts as well)
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1675324
(if Akwasi Owusu-Ansah is not there )CB Brian Jackson Height: 6-1 Weight: 202
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/563876
5th A. CB Stephan Virgil Height: 5-11 Weight: 189
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1243342
5th B.(from broncos) trade Sims and 5th B to the Giants for DE Mathias Kiwanuka
6th OG Thomas Austin Height: 6-3 Weight: 315
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/564353
7th just a ST player like or ZF maybe a K if Hanson retires
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
ok....in reply to both of your above posts
1) Suh will not be there when we pick…..he is going to Tampa Bay.
2) Okung is going to be the best value where and when we pick.
3) We need an interior pass rush….our DEs are doing a fine job, but the QB has no trouble stepping up in the pocket against us. If we could force lateral movement from an interior pass rush, our DEs would get more sacks.
4) We will not likely be drafting 2 guys from the same position in this draft.
5) The Giants are not going to be stupid enough to trade us Kiwanuka….that is a pipe dream.
6) Ahmad Black is not only projected to be drafted in the 7th round, but he is projected as a likely starter.
7) Raiola is not going anywhere, so we will not be drafting a center, and there is no cornerback after the third round that warrants a 4th round pick (unless one slips out of the third and into the fourth). As such, drafting a sure handed (and tall and fast) WR in the 4th is not a bad idea….plus Bryan Anderson may be the BPA at that point.
8) Doering is a projected 5th rounder…..he’ll be there. There are a ton of guards in this draft that will go in rounds 2-4.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1246097 theres that C i was refering to he can play G as well
and i think Akwasi Owusu-Ansah is worth a 4th as well
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
We once drafted 2 CB's in the same draft
Andre Goodman and Chris Cash. We need 2. If we don’t draft 2, and don’t make a trade, then we are back to where we are now for the other CB spot:
Sign a FA in the offseason and hope he works out (like we did with Philip Buchanon).
Stick with Buchanon. Hope he improves with more DL pressure on the QB.
Sign CB’s by the truckload off the waiver wire, like we’re doing now.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
LOL
Look how well that worked out GRLion! Goodman and Cash are terrible!
I think that Buchanon would be fine if we had a pass rush. I even think Will James is servicable if we have a pass rush. I am not saying we should not draft a corner in this draft, quite to the contrary I think we should draft one for sure. However, I do not want to see us take one too soon. I think round 3 would be about right,
That sound about right REV
unless a projected first rounder falls to us in the second round then lets jump. Other than that I’d say take one even later than 3rd round cause we need to get way to much help on both lines for a 3rd round pick on a corner.
I am on board with grabbing a Kicker regarless of Hansons situration..
We will need one.
http://cmufootball.blogspot.com/
by CapitolLions on Nov 25, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
i disagree with the projects comment to a extent..
there will be a rookie cap in 2011 so it will be like the braking of gates on draft day i a Farley confident if we draft right we could get a starter out of the 6th
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
geas i miss read u there just sec looking up that C name he can play G as well
that why i wanted him so he could replace raiola
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
+ 100000
I curse like a sailor, and sound like a giant idiot at times, but at least i have the common courtesy to follow syntactical and grammatical parameters.
I beleave in spell check
Their is no raisin not to use spell check. Wear is it? U no. Yew didn’t kno? Yes, yoo new. In any saturation. I am on bored with spell check.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Looks to be a good draft to me
However, I must admit, I’m not thinking about the draft yet, that will be a few months of yet. However, the whole OT/DT/CB ordering seems fine to me and that’s what I’ll be looking at when my draft research starts.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
hello
This is my first post on this blog so hi to all you diehard Lions fans out there. While i agree the since we have many areas of need in the draft, i think i would like to see Okung taken with our first pick just to see our franchise QB get a lil protection. Hes been injured twice already this year so i think if hes gunna last he needs some O Line. Unless theres some good O line free agents i think Okung is our pick
by LionsPistonsFan on Nov 25, 2009 12:20 AM EST reply actions
Welcome to POD
I agree….we saw what the kid can do when he has a second or two……now we need to protect him.
Welcome to the Pride
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
by Hyperion Ecta on Nov 25, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
With No CAP next year
I don’t see any lineman worth a damn being available to us or any team thats not called the Patriots/Colts/Saints. Everyone wants to play for a winner and I can’t see anyone worth a damn wanting to go anywhere else.OK possibly Pittsburgh and SD could be thrown out there as well.
Sounds good and all.......
But what has Schwartz been talking about all season? Think back to his press conferences. He’s talked a lot about bad tackling (especially by the secondary) and blown coverages. He’s also talked a bit about lack of a pass rush and run stopping. He’s talked some about WR’s dropping balls and lack of explosion plays by the RB’s. By comparison, IMO Schwartz has talked very little about the offensive line.
If you go by that, the areas that seem to concern Schwartz most, the areas that he might put a priority on upgrading are (in order):
1. secondary (covering and tackling)
2. DL
3. WR/RB
Just because we went for the “Best Player Available” in Year 1 of the rebuild does not necessarily mean we’re going to take the same approach in Year 2. As we start to fill some needs (and we have), we’ll then look to fill other needs (the obvious example is we’re not going to draft another QB in the top 5 in 2010).
We may think LT is an immediate need, but Schwartz has IMO said by comparison relatively little about the OL, and even less about Jeff Backus. What we want the Lions to pick is one thing, but if we’re trying to figure out who the Lions are LIKELY to pick……Schwartz has given no indication that LT is a top priority for upgrade. So I’m still not convinced that the Lions WILL draft LT Russell Okung until I see it. Don’t count your chickens.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
by GRLion on Nov 25, 2009 12:25 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
The defensive coach he is
i dont see him going offense with the first pick either. I just think we need a big time blocker for Stafford
by LionsPistonsFan on Nov 25, 2009 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
I am 100% in agreement GRL.
I even rec’d you. I think Backus is not our biggest issue on the O line. Gosder’s play has been disappointing [much worse than Backus] and our interior is not up to his level either. We should not need to use a first rounder on a Guard or a project at Tackle. We do need to improve our O Line depth. Loper, Ramirez, Jansen, and Salaam aren’t cutting it for me. Loper is a big disappointment to me. I was hoping he could nail down one of the guard spots.
It is possible that Tampa finishes ahead of us too. They still play the Jets at home and Carolina and Seattle on the road. They also play Atlanta twice and New Orleans. They could win two games out of that. The Lions schedule is pretty tough the rest of the year. The Bears at home is our one “easy” game.
I still think that it will come down to Suh or Gerald McCoy for our pick. A long shot is a DE [either Dunlap(yeccchhh) or Derick Morgan], but that would be a reach in my opinion. With the potential depth and quality of the safeties this year I would not take Eric Berry with the # 4 pick.
But…….the Lions may feel differently.
by NorthLeft12 on Nov 25, 2009 7:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Here's a list of some big strong downhill blocking guards
This is me being lazy. In the offseason, I’m planning on maybe doing a position-by-position posting like this, but for now I was lazy and am linking a good post about Guards that I found on the Browns SBN website:
http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2009/11/19/1164327/browns-draft-radar-the-line
I agree we need to look at some guards in the mid/late rounds. I’m still surprised we didn’t bite on Duke Robinson last year, who fell to the 5th Round.
DT and Safety are a bit tricky. Suh and Berry look good, but both the S and NT positions look deep for the 2010 Draft. We could get a good player at either position later. The question is, is good enough…..good enough? Mayhew went for the BPA, and got IMO the best QB, best TE, AND best S in the entire 2009 Draft. Will Mayhew and Schwartz settle for the 3rd best Safety or 4th best NT? If you can only have one, will Mayhew/Schwartz go for……….the best LT, or the best NT, or the best S in the draft?
At the risk of repeating myself, my approach is not what WE think they SHOULD pick, but what they are LIKELY to pick.
(99% in agreement………personally, I think both Dunlap and McCoy are reaches. I don’t think McCoy is big and strong enough to fit what Gunther wants…….good player, but bad fit here.)
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Are you kidding?
Jeff Backus is 97 years old and might as well be in a wheel chair out there…..he’s slow enough. We have a GLARING need for a new, young left tackle (a franchise, bookend, left tackle….not an I’m durable because I never put my body on the line left tackle). Anyone who thinks that Backus is good, and good enough to keep around for another 5 or 6 years, needs to drop the crack pipe and sober up.
And draft a corner in the top 5? Not happening. If the Lions are smart, they will draft the most valuable player they can draft when it is their turn to pick (likely pick 4). I never said that my mock was set in stone. However, logic stands to reason that Okung will be the most valuable player available for the long term, when we get our chance to pick. You want Eric Berry? Him and Taylor Mays are not top 10 worthy. There is a ton of hype surrounding both of them, but that is all it is. I’ve seen both of them play, and personally I think Mays is the superior DB…..but the media has Berry sounding like the next Ed Reed…..and he most certainly is not.
If it’s not a corner, and it’s not a safety……you want McCoy in the top 5?? Suh will be gone. If Suh is not gone…..that is the guy I have wanted all along. He will go to Tampa though……and while some people may think that McCoy is worthy of a top 5 pick, I just look back at the hype that surrounded Glen Dorsey, Amobi Okoye, Broderick Bunkley, Travis Johnson, Marcus Tubbs, Dewayne Robertson, Jonathon Sullivan, Jimmy Kennedy, William Joseph…..ALL first round picks over the last 6 years (only Dorsey and Robertson were top 5 picks)……and that is what I see in Gerald McCoy. He may have a decent year or two, but he is not a top 5 pick.
Russell Okung is 6’5 301 lbs……and he is a dominant pass blocker. We need someone that Stafford can count on to protect his blind side. Jeff Backus can not be trusted. Okung will be the best value pick for the Lions if they have the 4th pick and Suh is gone. Any other choice will be a mistake in my opinion.
Found a great article that supports my opinion.....
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/270739-detroit-lion-left-tackle-jeff-backus-is-he-really-that-bad
Of special note:
Team Player Years Games Sacks Allowed Avg Sacks Per Year
Lions Backus 9 133 67.25 7.47
Vikings McKinnie 8 105 51 6.38
Patriots Light 9 118 56.75 6.31
Giants Diehl 7 101 42.5 6.07
Cardinals Gandy 9 100 44.75 4.97
Cowboys Adams 12 171 56.75 4.73
Bears Pace 13 162 58.5 4.50
Redskins Samuels 10 141 44.75 4.48
Seahawks Jones 13 180 57.25 4.40
There you have it folks…in black and white, this proves that Jeff Backus is indeed the worst starting left tackle in the National Football League.
One could argue that many of his sacks came while Mike Martz was the offensive coordinator. Disputing that is Orlando Pace who played under Martz’s offense longer than any left tackle had a right to…and yet, there he is allowing a mere 4.48 sacks per year.
Backus has been around for 9 years now…..and he has never missed a game in 9 years. Yeah, he is durable and maybe even somewhat competent at times. However, he is only getting older and his skills will only continue to deteriorate. We need a new LT now! And unless we can get Suh with our first pick, I say it has to be Okung. How many years are we going to accept the underwhelming performance of Jeff Backus as our LT, before we replace him and move on? Will we keep him long enough to completely destroy our franchise QB, or will we get someone in there to protect our future?
I agree, Backus sucks. I agree, no CB's in top 10. I agree, we need a LT like Okung. But........
Will the Lions actually pick Okung? My take is not what the Lions need, but what the Lions will actually do. Maybe, maybe not. Schwartz seems to be focusing most of his comments and attention on the secondary/DL. Mayhew’s FA revolving door seems to be mostly focusing on the secondary/DL. That’s not a coincidence.
Three factors MAY maneuver us toward drafting Okung, however. Setting aside Backus’ contract issues for now (assuming we will either live with the contract or cut him as needed at the appropriate time), there are 3 reasons we may draft Okung:
1. Given the choice of drafting the best LT, the best NT, or the best S, Mayhew takes the best LT (Okung), feeling the 2010 Draft depth at NT and S is deeper than the depth at LT. Deep depth.
2. Regardless of depth, Mayhew/Schwartz decide Okung is the BPA (similar to Pettigrew last year), pick him, and let the NT/S situation sort itself out later. No guarantees the “guy” you want later is going to be there later, so take the BPA now and let the chips fall where they may. Bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.
3. STL picks a QB (Clausen/Locker?). TB picks Suh. CLE picks a QB (Clausen/Locker?). We pick at #4 with our choice of Okung or Berry. We pick Okung, for whatever reason. Suh’s already off the board.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
I see your point.....
and I agree with the analytical reasoning.
The real question is who is better…..Berry or Mays? Scout.com says it is Mays hands down. San Francisco and Seattle both have 2 first round picks too…..so maybe we will trade down if we do not plan to draft Okung. Personally I think Berry and Mays are both a huge reach in the top 5, and LTs with Okung’s skills always go in the top half of the first round. I want Suh…..but I have a bad felling that Tampa will not win another game and they will take him ahead of us. I think St. Louis WILL draft a QB, and I think the Browns are not going to give up on Brady Quinn. However I also do not think the Browns will draft Suh with Big Baby being there.
I think Cleveland may very well draft Brandon Spikes….call me crazy, but that’s the feeling I get. David Bowens is 32 years old. They could also be looking at upgrading at safety, but again I think the best safety prospects in this draft are a reach in the top 5….idk. I really don’t care who they pick as long as it isn’t Okung (very unlikely) or Suh (very unlikely). Maybe Tampa is sold on Dez Bryant…..maybe Suh will fall to us at pick 5. That is what I am truly hoping for, however unlikely.
Makes sense
Season’s not over. Opinions on Berry/Mays and everyone else may change…..plus the bowl games, Combine, and College Pro Days. I agree, with Joe Thomas and Big Baby, the Browns are VERY unlikely to take either Suh or Okung. And you would think with 2 QB’s, they wouldn’t take one of those, either. But neither is Mangenius’ guy, so he may want “his guy”. Add in the fact that this is Mangenius we’re talking about, and all sorts of stupid things could happen. Even if he gets fired, the new coach may want “his guy”, too. Who knows? Could be Spikes…..I like him. I’m not sure what they will do. What a mess. Mistake by the Lake indeed.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
An interesting idea
What happens if McCoy is avaiable around pick 18. Now this is a hypothetical scenario, but would you be willing to trade a Ernie Sims a 2nd and a 4th for McCoy? I think I would do it but it is an interesting scenario. Also if Joe Haden( Top CB) is avaiable, would you as lions fans be willing to give up picks for a higher draft pick. Personally I would because I think teams should try to draft higher level talent than more picks. Imagine getting Okung and McCoy/ Haden and then in the third round either getting Javier Arenas/ Marvin Austin. This team would fill needs with potential first year impact starters. A 6-10 season could be possible and that is a huge jump.
Gerald McCoy is top ten in virtually every ranking report I have seen.
I don’t think there is any realistic chance of him dropping to the middle of the first round.
I do not like the idea of trading up. We cannot afford to sacrifice our future for one guy. There are many options available in the draft, to get fixated on a player or two is too much of a risk in my view. We need to add picks and build some depth.
I don’t want to start predicting our 2010 record, but 6-10 should be very doable with a little improvement and less injuries. I would not be surprised to see a bigger jump with a few breaks and another good draft.
Me too, we need a number of good players not one or two.
It would come down to who we are passing on to secure the extra picks. For instance, I would not pass on a chance to draft Suh if we had it……but it would depend on how sweet the offer is.
by NorthLeft12 on Nov 25, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
+100
Quantity as well as Quality is needed.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
by Hyperion Ecta on Nov 25, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Trading up
One of our biggest problems is depth. You cannot add depth by trading up. We are a long ways away from needing a few key pieces to be a great team. If we have good scouting (and based upon last year’s draft I would say we now do), then I would like to keep our picks or trade down to get more players on this roster that are good solid football players that can grow with the rest of our young team. We have to be thinking about 3-5 years down the road as well as looking at the next season.
by Lions-fan-SLC on Nov 25, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Not that I think we're going to trade up or anything........
But you can add depth by trading up and drafting a good player who sticks, vs. trading down and picking players who are either cut or no better than what we have now. At some point you trade down so much that you water down the talent you pick, and don’t improve the team. It’s all about opportunity cost, replacement cost, and incremental value added. Bottom line, you have to pick good players. Trading up and trading down both have costs associated with them. I’d rather not trade up or down in the early rounds, and I don’t think we will.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
To put it another way......
We got the best QB, the best S, and the best TE in the 2009 NFL Draft. Stafford won that game with a pass to Pettigrew. If we had traded down from those picks, we wouldn’t have Staff, wouldn’t have ‘Grew, and wouldn’t have that memory to last a lifetime. Sometimes when the special players are there, you have to take them.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Agree, I would not blindly trade the pick before seeing who is available at that spot.
I have faith in Schwartz and Mayhew.
tackle or secondary for me
I say we either get a tackle or someone in the secondary. I think that there is quite a bit of depth in the DT position in the draft, so the lions would be able to pick up a solid one in round two. As far as o-linemen, there arent that many elite (first round talent) prospects, so I would take Okung if he is available. something tells me he is not going to be. Everyone’s thinking that Tampa is going to take Suh, but I think there is a shot that they get Okung. They have a young qb too, and their line isnt exactly all that great either, especially at LT.
Secondary wise, I dont see a lot of options in the draft…well…at least not at the third or fourth pick. The only guys that worth the pick are either Taylor Mays or Eric Berry, both of whom are strong safeties. We need a free safety with speed and coverage skills.
The beginning of the end of the misery
+1
I want all DL or OL in this draft as well as secondary. The defense is the most obvious problem with this team followed by the OL. These are obvious to anyone and I think Mayhew and Schwartz will address the issues accordingly in the offseason and draft.
PS – I hope Foote and Peterson come back as well. I’d keep Sims too IMO
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
by NYCLionsfan on Nov 25, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
TB may indeed take Okung, but Berry has coverage skills
Berry is more of a Left Safety/Right Safety like Schwartz wants (a “hybrid safety”….a player with FS coverage skills who can tackle too, like Delmas).
If STL takes a QB, TB takes Okung, CLE takes a QB, we have our choice of Suh or Berry. But if either STL or CLE takes Suh (or if TB takes Suh and STL takes Okung and leaves Jason Smith at RT), then Suh is gone, Okung is gone, and Berry still on the board……possibly the BPA at that point, and he fits our defense and fills a huge need.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
I don't see Tampa taking Okung. They have a pretty good LT already.
Penn is not great, but he is still young and their O line is not a huge weakness. The Chiefs are definitely in need of an LT, but I doubt they will be picking ahead of us. Tampa is most likely looking at defensive help, especially along their D line. They would snatch Suh in a heartbeat.
I agree on who you have picking ahead of us and who they are most likely to take. We should have a choice between Okung and Berry and McCoy. Cleveland could go with Berry if they felt that Quinn can be their QB.
by NorthLeft12 on Nov 25, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
penn nowhere near okung
Okung is an elite prospect, donald penn is an average tackle. the reason i could see them taking him is mainly b/c they have young investments like cadillac and josh johnson to protect more than anything. but ya, they do have other holes. I think more than anything, they need DEs, but no one is really worth a pick that high.
As far as predicting the draft, I say Bucs still take Suh as he is the BPA in this draft, St Louis probably takes a QB, dont know who, and doesnt matter as a Lions fan. Cleveland is intersting, and probably what effects us the most. They could go QB, S, or even DT, as Shaun Rogers doesn’t wanna stay in Cleveland. In the end, I think this is where Eric Berry or Taylor Mays ends up. For our sake, lets hope its Mays.
The beginning of the end of the misery
Never said he was.
There is a bigger gap in talent between their current DTs and Suh. TB is currently allowing 4.9 yards per rush. Worst in the NFL. They need help to plug this hole.
With three different QBs this year [two rooks and the statuesque Leftwich] the Bucs have given up 23 sacks. Eighteenth in the league. Not great, but not bad. Once Freeman settles in, I see this total dropping. Their yards per rush is 4.2, tied for 15th with the Ravens and Vikings. Thats not bad either.
I’m just asking why people think the Bucs will want Okung?
I knew you'd like that
Just sorta threw that out there about TB taking Okung to protect Josh Freeman. Not sure if it will happen, but it’s a possibility. Every year most “experts” are lucky to predict more than 2 of the top 5 picks right.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
3 things...
1) I obviously LOVE Bryan Anderson…
2) No way in hell Javier Arenas is there in the 3rd
3) Have a hard time seen Tate availible that late.
http://cmufootball.blogspot.com/
Also...this is the 3rd time I will mention this guy...
MyQuail Lewis
Running Back
Ball State
I want this dude badly…probably can get him 5-6th round
http://cmufootball.blogspot.com/
Spelling Error MiQuale Lewis
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=185621
http://cmufootball.blogspot.com/
by CapitolLions on Nov 25, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Still looks like a spelling error
(even if it’s not)
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Love to get Arthur Jones out of SU
He plays on a shitty team but he’s a beast – see SU vs. ND last year. I see him a lot and would love to get him in the 3rd or 4th if he’s still available. Not sure he’s good enough to draft early 2nd round though………………
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
I would be very surprised if Jones slips into the late second round.
It sounds like he is very highly thought of by a lot of people. The injury concerns may drag him down though.
Yeah....that is a long shot
But I am still harboring the hope that one of McCoy, Cody, Jones, or Austin fall to us in round 2. If the top 5 DTs all go in the first round (5 defensive tackles have not been drafted in the first round since the 2001 draft), then we would be looking at:
D’Anthony Smith, Louisiana Tech
Geno Atkins, Georgia
Jared Odrick, Penn State
DeMarcus Granger, Oklahoma
All four of those guys are projected as likely starters, and all four are projected 2nd round picks.
I think Arthur Jones would be very good value in Round Two. NYC was hoping to get himin the third round.
Brian Price of UCLA would be a great pick up in the third round. He is a Junior but a lot of mocks are showing him as coming out this year. He may even be second round material.
Price might be good
If he declares……I think Jared Odrick could be a beast,
They say that the Smith kid out of LA Tech has all of the intangibles…..but he lacks size and he is not violent enough. However, we have another small school kid with all of the intangibles that is doing pretty good so far…..:o)
Lacks size? He better get some.........
………or he’d be a better fit somewhere else. If we want someone to get run over, we already have Landon Cohen. Gunther wants GIANT DT’s.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Update.....
He must have bulked up some, because I just found a site that says he is 6’2" 300 lbs…..still not GIANT though.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=192243
Still not sold on McCoy
Seems like a bad fit for what Gunther wants to do. I don’t want him in any round, and I doubt the Lions have any real interest in him.
In the offseason, I’d like to post seperate posts for each position, listing each like a help-wanted ad. You have job requirements, and you have applicants. Find people with the appropriate skills. Find those who are a good fit. I don’t want good players who are a bad fit. I doubt Mayhew/Schwartz/Cunningham/Linehan do either.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
I have not seen McCoy play much but they compare him to Kevin Williams.
He is 6 foot four inches and 298 pounds. Apparently very quick and a great penetrator from the tackle position. I’ll try and watch him if the Oklahoma State vs Oklahoma game is televised. We have one fireplug in Hill, we need someone who can collapse the pocket from the inside. Jones or Odrick may work but they are basically the same size as McCoy. What is the difference?
by NorthLeft12 on Nov 25, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
What?
Everything I have READ about him says that he is “A building block to work a line around for a decade…..an anchor who’ll dominate in a 4-3”.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/856941.html
I agree with Northleft…..he is about the same size as any of the DT prospects (except Cody). Suh is only 6’4 300 lbs……
However, I have watched McCoy play and I was not overly impressed. He only has 3 sacks this year against some pretty questionable competition. Check him out if you can see the OK St vs OK game…..and keep an eye on Okung while you’re at it….:o)
I saw Okung when he played against Colorado last Thursday night.
He looked very good. No one got past him and they seemed to run away from him. I have nothing against this guy and would love to see him in a Lions uniform. It comes down to our varying opinions on how best the Lions can fill the multiple holes that we have.
Honestly, the only early draft pick [first or second round] that I see that would piss me off is a WR.
Note to self; I said that last year about a TE and look what happened.
I would also be upset if we drafted Dez Bryant
or some other WR in the 1st round. I want an OT or DT with our 1st pick.
Suh looks like he could be 320 Lbs in 3 years
But not McCoy. He doesn’t look like he could effectively add that bulk, due to his his frame/weight distribution, and due to his game, which is first-step quickness/penetration. Gunther wants GIANT DT’s (like Big Daddy Dan Wilkinson and Big Baby Sean Rogers), huge, insanely strong run-stuffing bull-rushers who can collapse the pocket with size and strength (the speed comes from the DE’s, like Avril). Sammie Lee Hill can do that. Grady Jackson used to be able to do that. It’s no coincidence he’s here starting alongside Hill when he’s healthy. Suh can be that guy soon enough. Terrence Cody can be that guy. McCoy can’t be that guy. McCoy is a good player who’s a bad fit here. We didn’t draft Peria Jerry. We’re not going to draft McCoy, either. Write it down.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Sorry GRL, the skill set you described for DTs is a very, very, very small group.
I think Suh is the only one in the draft that meets that criteria. Hill has not shown this year that he can collapse the pocket. Kevin Williams and Albert Haynesworth are the only two DTs who consistently meet that criteria. Shaun Rogers and Vince Wilfork and Haloti Ngata might also be considered in that elite group. After that guys seem to be either good against the run or good penetrators. Usually not both. Mostly sort of stout against the run.
Mostly I think they're leaning toward run-stuffers
Sammie Lee Hill is still raw, but progressing nicely. He has good agility for his size. He has some upside, and has been compared by some to Sean Rogers (in a good way). The Lions seem happy with what they have there. If he develops into a guy that can collapse the pocket with quality help beside him, bonus. I think they’re looking for bull-rushers rather than penetrators, huge insanely strong guys who use their strength to push the middle of the OL line back (visualize Dominic Raiola going backward).
As it is, based on Gunther’s comments, it seems like he wants most of the pass rush to come from the DE’s, with the DT’s primarily stopping the run. That expands the draft pool of guys who could fit here. There are lots of GIANT NT’s out there.
As Gunther Cunningham said on Oct. 16:
“What we’d like to evolve to is to have two giant defensive tackles and two real fast defensive ends – then you can do anything you want,” Cunningham said. “But that’s gonna take time to get those players.”
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Thanks GRL, that is a very interesting quote from Gunther.
Personally, I disagree with that strategy, but I am a know nothing fan and Gunther is the DC. If you take that at face value, then DTs like McCoy, A. Jones, Brian Price, J. Odrick, Tyson Alualu, D’Anthony Smith, Mike Neal, V. Oghobaase, and Marvin Austin are out of the picture. They are all about 300 pounds and six foot five to two inches. Maybe some will be able to bulk up, but not twenty pounds or more. I question whether Suh fits into that mold. NOTE: Kevin Williams of the Vikes is 310 pounds and is probably the best DT in the NFL.
Sort of leaves the choices as T. Cody of Alabama and D. Williams of Tenn. There may be some other sleepers out there, but who knows what they can do against real O linemen?
Those guys, especially Cody, sound like two down type of linemen. More suited for Nose Tackle than DTs in a 4-3.
I would like to hear what Gunther Cunningham defines as "giant"
He probably thinks 4 inches is 8 inches…..lol
Often it helps to visualize things from the other teams' perspective
When we as Lions fans complain that our offensive line is getting pushed back……
here’s a comment from one of us on another thread:
"When the O-line is pushed back 3 yards on every running play its a little hard to make your first cut.
……..now turn it around. What if OUR defensive line were able to do that to our OPPONENTS? Sounds good to me. Apparently it sounds good to Gunther too.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Very true...
But who are the " Giants DT’s" in this years draft? Like North said: outside of Cody and Dan Williams, what is left? Cam Thomas UNC 6-3, 328 a project 7th RD pick.
Gun also said " Two real fast defensive ends" Whick leads me to believe that the Lions will be looking for some DE’s in the draft as well.
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
Strength is what matters
Size only makes a small difference. If you have a 350 pound weakling out there, he still does nothing more than take up space and get pushed around. Guys who blow offensive linemen off the ball and into the backfield are typically very quick and very strong. So if we want to keep sucking balls in the pass rush, we can draft the fat pussies and pass up on the strong athletic types. Personally I would rather have a pass rush than a fat plug.
here my draft mock of a mock...
not going to get into many details about these guys. Since, the draft is five months off.
1 RD: Russell Okung, OT- Oklahoma
2 RD: Trevard Lindley, CB – Kentucky
would have been a 2RD pick last season
3 RD: D’Anthony Smith DT – Louisiana Tech
a 300 pounder that is good against the run
4 RD: Alex Carrington DE – Arkansas State
a big DE with speed, that draws alot of double teams
5 RD: Jamar Chaney ILB – Mississippi State
at 240 lbs now, could be a future replacement for Foote
6 RD: Larry Asante S – Nebraska
another big hard hitting S to put next to Delmas
7 RD: Matt Kopa OT – Stanford
was projected as a 3rd pick. Broke his foot. Could be a steal in the 7th
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
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