Certain Lions Fans' Amnesia
by Twon82 on Nov 8, 2009 10:42 PM EST
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PrintI think I've posted three or four times, repetitively, after losses reminding unrealistic Stafford-doubters that they are being too demanding and expecting entirely too much this year. This has happened because there tends to be a lot of people expressing the "I give up," "I can't take this anymore," "Where's Culpepper/Stanton?" sentiments after another admittedly tough loss.
Granted, this loss was tough to watch. It truly was....even when you consider that Seattle is renowned for being a VERY tough stadium to play in. Stafford's INTs were ugly, ugly throws that should not be happening. Especially the first 2 or 3 of the 5 that he would eventually throw. I am making no excuses for our rookie QB, trust me. What I have said, and will continue to say, is that he is, in fact, a ROOKIE and this sort of thing is to be expected. Should it happen every game? No. Of course not. We should be seeing promising things from Stafford more often than not.
But here's the catch. I CALLED this result. When they were up 17-0, I knew we would lose. And my prediction had little to do with Stafford being our QB. We, as a team, have yet to figure out how to close a game. Period. And that will take time.
With every loss, it is understandable that Lions fans grow more impatient and desire more instant gratification. But stop it already. Sit back and enjoy the good things that DO happen this year. Because, as most of us already figured, we won't be in the playoff race this year. Perhaps not even next year.
Be a long-term Lions fan. Trust in the process. Schwartz has his stuff together. Stafford is a smart kid with many more tools than the likes of JaMarcus Russell or someone like that (who I knew would bust from the get-go). We'll be okay soon enough. Stop the belly-aching. Stop the "clever" posts about how "you told us so" when it comes to Stafford. Just stop.
The truth is, no one cares. Yay for you, you predicted a rookie NFL QB would struggle on a team that just went 0-16. OR yay for you, you can now criticize a rookie NFL QB for struggling. Good job...you should apply for the CIA.
Restore the roar! GO LIONS!
PS- Shame on the Lions "fans" that directly taunted Stafford after the Rams game. Embarrasing.
PS2- To rbanner: Check your stats before you post. Sanchez was in a similar situation when he threw his 5 INT game. They were either leading or tied the entire time.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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What should we lower our expectations to then?
Just don’t throw 10 picks in a game?
Or don’t blow a 30 point lead almost single handedly?
Or it’s ok if you underthrow everyone just try to keep it within 20 yards of the reciever?
Or it doesn’t matter if we are driving the field and have a good chance to win it’s fine that you threw to a spot where there wasn’t a receiver within 20 yards and gift wrapped them a pick 6?
Are you saying nobody should have any expectations for Stafford whatsoever?
Every other rookie played very good today except for Stafford. Why do all the other rookies get it except for him? When is he gonna be held accountable by some of you? Did you also never hold Harrington accountable? Because every game that goes by this is looking more and more like deja vu.
It’s a double standard because if any other one of the rookies played this bad you would be jumping all over them.
What if Grew dropped 10 passes today? Or Delmas and Levy missed 15 tackles? Or if Williams fumbled 5 kick returns? What would you say about them?
Thank you for proving my point...
Stafford hasn’t played this bad all year. Normally, we HAVE blamed the defense. The problem with you, and others like you, is that you want to throw our players under the bus without giving them a fair shot and progressing over several weeks.
When did I ever say that we should not have expectations for Stafford at all? I do believe that the entire time I’ve posted on this website, I have emphasized PROGRESS over TIME. It’s called literacy and patience…try it and get some, respectively.
“Every other rookie played very good today except for Stafford.” SO? He’s played well other weeks and Sanchez has had two awful games. What’s your point?
Yes, I did hold Harrington accountable in the same way I am Stafford. Meaning, I didn’t count him out irrationally after only half of a rookie season. I waited and allowed time to progress.
The problem with your Pettigrew-Delmas-Levy-Williams analogies is that they are not equivalent to what happened today.
It’s called patience. Get some.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
Progress over Time?
I see the time going by but where is the Progress????
I want you to prove progress to me. Prove it with hard facts and statistics. If you tell someone I know there is progress and can’t prove it then nobody is going to believe you. You can’t just say there is progress and expect everybody to accept that as fact. In all your posts you have never proven that there is any progress.
It’s not that I don’t think Stafford will succeed or won’t be a good QB I am just asking you to prove what you say because you rip me for what I say but every statement I make I can back up with evidence.
And about the analogies to the other rookies how don’t they apply? If Stafford would have played good and Williams lost 5 fumbles on kickoff returns would you be defending him as vigorously as you defend Stafford? Would you defend any other rookie who’s mistakes directly led to 15 points for the other team? It’s equivalent you just don’t want to admit that you will only stick up for Stafford and not the other rookies. You say he is a rookie and these things will happen but you wouldn’t hold the other rookies to that standard. And that my Stafford loving friend is what we “LITERATES” call a double standard.
QB is the most difficult poisition on the team
And he has only played 6 games…..not exactly enough time to declare that he has made no progress.
By the way what does Stafford have that Jamarcus Russel doesn't?
It’s not a strong arm because Russel threw 60 yards from his knees. It’s not touch because Stafford hasn’t shown any whatsoever. It’s not athleticism. Stafford did have a high Wonderlic score I’ll give you that but besides that they look like the same QB. Gun it in everywhere as hard as you can and hope it doesn’t get picked.
When he was drafted I wasn’t happy but then I warmed up to him and I thought he could be special. I didn’t kill him for a lot of the things others have killed him for. I realized the team is bad and he is going to struggle as a rookie. But after this performance all that came into question because now I see no progression from him. I don’t see him learning from the mistakes he has made throughout the year. I don’t see him figuring out you can’t strong arm every throw. I don’t see him learning to be just a tiny bit more patient because you can’t force ball like you did at Georgia. I don’t see him adjusting to NFL defenses and making better reads. I don’t see anything from him that says even though the team around me isn’t very good I stiil am starting to understand how the QB position is supposed to be played at the NFL level. I don’t see him making any progress with the things that he controls himself like touch, reading defenses, and just making better decisions. Because every snap is a new situation to learn from and he has had enough of them even as a rookie to start to figure some of these things out.
I hope to god he does figure this stuff out and starts showing progression and becomes a great leader. I hope we start winning and I hope he proves me and everybody else wrong. I want to see this team win more than anything in the world at this point. But I’m not gonna treat this situation like he is a little baby because he showed enough to become a first overall pick and he is now a professional football player. There will be growing pains and bad play yes but at what point do you expect him to show progress?
The difference is simple
You are hilarious. Stafford has shown no “touch” whatsoever? Right. Okay.
Someone who overgeneralizes and exaggerates as much as you deserves little merit nor response.
“I realized the team is bad and he is going to struggle as a rookie. But after this performance all that came into question because now I see no progression from him. I don’t see him learning from the mistakes he has made throughout the year.”
Did Brett Favre ever learn that it was really risky to strong arm a throw? No. He certainly did not. He still does it. But he progressed over the years. He also had a STRONG FOUNDATION around him.
Amnesia = forgetting that Stafford won a game only three games into his career. He could’ve succumbed to pressure. He could’ve thrown INTs. But he didn’t. QBs HAVE BAD GAMES. ESPECIALLY ROOKIES. GET USED TO IT. HE’LL HAVE MORE OF THEM, BOTH WHEN HE’S A ROOKIE AND ON INTO HIS CAREER AFTER THIS YEAR.
To write a rookie QB off after one awful game is irrational at best. Period.
I know you care as a Lions fan. I know you do. That is why you are having this conversation with me. However, I just feel emotions are getting the best of people.
All the best, and go Lions.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
Let me also say that I will not...
…endlessly be a Stafford apologist. I simply want Lions fans to allow him to have his rookie season. I really just do not think this team is built for him to succeed THIS year. Nevertheless, he HAS had successes. Let’s not forget that.
Keep your hope. But buffer it with reality that this year will be another rough one.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
Okay I've never said I'm wriring him off.
When have you seen him throw a touch pass? Your telling me he has that? Show me because I can pull up 20 videos of where he should have used touch and instead threw it on a frozen rope. Perfect example today is the TD pass to B. Johnson. It was on a rope and Johnson had to make an amazing catch to make it look like a good pass. Or earlier in the season when B. Johnson was wide open by 20 yards and Stafford threw a line drive 10 feet over his head.
And why do I deserve little merit nor response. If that’s the case why did you waste your time? Because I don’t agree with what you said. And you never said what the difference is between Stafford and Russel you just said it’s simple. That isn’t really a reason why. You can’t prove Stafford is better than Russel. Just because you said I knew he was a bust doesn’t mean that Russel is worse than Stafford.
In the post above you said I throw him under the bus without giving him a chance to progress over several weeks. Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the Lions schedule half over? What progression have you seen so far. I would like to know what you see him doing better now than what he did week 1. And Favre does strong arm throws but I said strong arm every throw. As I said I want you to show me a throw he hasn’t tried to strong arm.
Have to agree.
That was a very well thrown ball, with perfect touch. Yes BJ had to make a great catch, but the fact is he DID make the catch and he was the only player on the field in position to make the catch. That ball is a few inches deeper, no TD…a few inches shorter, maybe an INT. I’m perfectly willing to criticize Stafford for some other very poorly thrown balls in this game, but that one was on the mark.
huh?
That touchdown was totally a touch pass and not a good example at all of a “frozen rope”. It dropped in vertically like air mail right at the back where only BJ had a chance.
Also, let’s not turn “frozen rope” into a dirty word. A frozen rope pass is a good thing in many situations and one of the tools that sets Stafford apart. It’s when he uses it in the wrong situations that he should be criticized.
by HoorayForEverything on Nov 9, 2009 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not using "frozen rope" as a bad word because I know football and I know that those passes are needed...
and a lot of the time the difference between good and bad QB’s. A good QB knows when to use it and when they use it right it’s at times throws that everyone says “wo how did he get that in there?” But when an inexperienced or bad QB (I’m not calling Stafford bad this is just an example) uses those passes in the wrong situation they almost always end up in picks. Believe it or not I love that Staff has a strong enough arm to throw those passes and when used correctly with that kind of arm he could make some unbelievable throws. All I’m saying is it seems he hasn’t learned yet that not every situation requires that kind of throw. And 9 games in you would think he would be able to at least limit some of those dumb passes. Yesterday it looked like he took 20 steps back. And that is not a very encouraging thing to see
And I rewatched that throw to B. Johnson and that was a pretty throw. I’ll give him that.
9 games in?
9 weeks in…..8 games in……and Stafford played in 6. He did make progress after week 2….he looked good in week 3 and 4, much better than week 1 and 2. Personally I think he looked solid against the Rams….he was not forcing throws and he was making good reads. He would have turned in a much better game if not for the drops by WRs. So, he has had 3 pretty bad games and 3 pretty good games. He is a rookie. He is still learning and developing. 6 games is not enough time to call him out…..it’s not even enough time to truly measure progress. It takes YEARS to have a true measure of progress as a QB in the NFL. I simply ask this….please calm down and look at the big picture.
Flacco and Ryan were rare exceptions.
Most quarterbacks were awful/not good in the early parts of their career. For every Matt Ryan their is more Joe Flacco who burn hot then get cold … and even more who never get good … Akili Smith or start bad but eventually get the ring like Trent Dilfer or Peyton Manning, Charlie Batch … ok the last one was more for comedic value. However look at what he Batch does with a decent team behind him, Stafford to be judged needs more time and pieces.
On the flip side we pay him more then any rookie ever in a state were unemployment is around 88% or something he should be burping touchdowns and piss gold in my empty cup. Stafford may just, if he fails, do the sport of football one good thing and end the tradition of overly obnixious contracts for rookies.
but Stafford is better then Jamarcus Russell, and perhaps Brady Quinn. I’d even give the nudge to him over the guy at the local highschool.
Two sides to every story.
I agree wholeheartedly that Stafford, like any rookie…let alone a quarterback, needs time to fully develop. It is unfortunate that he is learning on the job, and even less fortunate that he is not surrounded with talent that can make his job easier. I still have hopes that he will eventually be a player that his team can lean on to make plays when they need him to.
That being said…this is precisely why so many wanted to wait before handing him the starting job. We all saw what Culpepper was capable of, and I don’t know that anyone would argue that he was so brilliant he absolutely deserves the job. But this team is bad…it is still really bad. Culpepper may not have won them any more games either, but the constant criticism of Stafford was inevitable when your teams record is 1-7 and they are literally staring in the face of another possible #1 overall pick in the draft.
You were right about this team not knowing how to close out games yet. This team has yet to find a way to play like a winner, in spite of escaping the Redskins game with a victory. It is probably very unfair to expect Stafford to do so much to help an abysmal team…but that’s the rub.
You can plead with the fans all you want Twon, and I think quite a few fans would be inclined to agree with you…but I can’t blame the others for not being quite so patient. The criticism will be temporarily lifted when this team starts winning some games, but based on what we’ve seen so far…it’s going to be a long harsh season for Stafford and Co.!
Here's a clue
If you say you are not going to make excuses, do not, in the next line, make the excuse that Stafford is a rookie.
YEESH!
“Instant gratification”? Are you kidding me? Wanting more than 1 win seems unreasonable to you. I guess you were happy with last year’s team.
Why should anyone stop pointing out the obvious?
If “no one cares”, why did you feel compelled to post?
Perhaps you don’t care whether they win or lose, you will simply fall in line like a good little lemming.
As far as checking stats, back at ya. At no time was Sanchez up by 17. The Jets only scored 13.
Do some research!
CLF
Dude your killing me with these things!!!
LOL
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me and the great Herman Moore
Yeah, clearly, I was happy with last year's team...you got me!
My point about Sanchez is that he wasn’t coming from behind. And that the majority of Stafford’s INTs were not when we had a 17 point lead.
I don’t know why I bother posting with you. You are only intent on arguing and creating drama. And yeah, I definitely never bitch about Detroit’s incessant sucking. It’s called taking an intellectual stance and realizing that the sky isn’t falling and that the team is going to take a while to turn around. I am not happy with 1 win, I’m simply realistic.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
"take a while to turn around"
How many times could you have said that about the Lions in the last 5 years? 10 years? 50 years?
Yeah, I want to argue. What’s the point of the board, if not an exchange of ideas? But I am certain not swallowing the Kool-Aid just to please some of you.
You are not being realistic ignoring things, that is not an intellectual stance. That is denial!
rbanner has a point about the turning it around idea...
You have to realize that we have supposedly been turning it around for 50 years and the whole business of ‘turning it around" starts to feel a bit unrealistic after that long. The thing is unlike rbanner I love the moves that this team has been making (judgment still in the air about Staff as with any QB until he proves to be a winner. I’m not gonna accept that he will be great no matter what like some of you). I understand it will take time for Staff to adjust to the NFL as with 90% of all QB’s and I hope to god he becomes a successful Pro Bowl QB, my argument has mostly been with peoples defense of a 5 int. game and the complete lack of expectations some think we should have for him. Anyway back to my point it is hard to sit back and be patient and wait for a turnaround when this is what was supposed to happen over the past 50 years. I can’t wait to see the day when we are competitive and a playoff team but it’s like the sheep that cried wolf. If the Lions cry turnaround so many times without it happening it is gonna be hard to believe it when that day actually comes. Do you get what I’m saying?
But even so I continue to support this team and love it more than anything in this world besides my family. All my friends and family, besides the ones that are Lions fans, think I’m sick in the head because of it and maybe we all are but it’s an addiction I don’t want to shake.
The issue is with the statement of the obvious.....
Anyone who has been a Lion’s fan for any amount of time is already well aware of the problems that have always been there. Any idiot can come here and say “The sky is blue above the clouds during the day” or “The sky is dark at night because the sunlight is not reflecting off of the waters of the Earth” or " Hey, the clock only reads 12:34 twice a day" or “Everyone who is living will die someday”. How much of that shit can anyone take before they just say “SHUT THE F UP!” and think that the person stating the obvious is a condescending dumbass?
Me? or rbanner?
All I was saying is that it’s been taking a while to turn it around and when we are in that phase yet again a person has a right to not believe it. I think we are based on how the D and the young players have improved just over a half of a season. But you can’t blame someone for not believing the sheep.
I do agree that rbanner backtracks and condescends himself and does all this shit to get a rise. But I’m just saying you can’t blame him for not being as willing to accept the whole turnaround idea anymore. But you can blame him for the provocative, condescending, “I told you so” attitude he comes in here with.
Thank you
for at least seeing that it should be the turnaround before the acceptance and not vice versa when it comes to the Lions.
And if I have an I told you so attitude about the Lions, it is because I have seen the promise of the garden path one time too many with this club!
If you've got to play a garden party........
….I wish you a lot of luck;
but if memories are all I sang…….I’d rather drive a truck.
But its, all right now.
I learned my lesson well.
You see, you, can’t please everyone,
so you, got to please yourself.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Ricky Nelson died in a plane crash in 1985, probably due to a faulty cabin heater
This from Wikipedia:
In 1985, Nelson joined a nostalgia rock tour of England. It was a major success, and it revived some interest in his work. He tried to duplicate that effect in the United States, and he began a tour of the South. Nelson and his band boarded a plane after a show at a small club in Guntersville, Alabama headed to the KLUV-FM New Year’s Eve Sock-Hop concert in Dallas, Texas. The plane crashed northeast of Dallas in De Kalb, Texas killing Nelson; his fiancée, Helen Blair; and five others. Nelson was buried in the Forest Lawn, Hollywood Hills Cemetery in Los Angeles, California.
The NTSB investigation stated that the crash was probably due to mechanical problems. The pilots attempted to land in a field after smoke filled the cabin. An examination indicated that a fire had originated in the righthand side of the aft cabin area at or near the floor line. The passengers were killed when the aircraft struck obstacles during the forced landing; the pilots were able to escape through the cockpit windows and survived. The ignition and fuel sources of the fire could not be determined, although many believe that the most likely cause was a defective cabin heater. The pilot indicated that the crew tried to turn on the gasoline cabin heater repeatedly shortly before the fire occurred, but that it failed to respond. After the fire, the access panel to the heater compartment was found unlatched. The theory is supported by records that showed that DC-3s in general, and this aircraft in particular, had had a previous history of problems with the cabin heaters.
Despite these findings, rumors persisted that the fire was due to the band freebasing cocaine.4
Here is the NTSB report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X38383&key=1
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
But not listed by the NTSB as a contributory factor in the crash
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
I understand that
I am simply stating that as a reason that the rumors continue. Nelson’s use is also the subject of controversy. I ahve seen online Nelson referred to as an addict and at other sites as casual user.
Regardless, it was a tragic ending to someone who was once one of the most loved figures in America.
BTW
it isn’t an excuse. It’s a fact that Stafford is a rookie. I guess when you get hired onto a job, you should be expected to produce at the most efficient level in your first few weeks, aye? No training? No learning on the job? Just perfection the whole way. I see.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
Give me Staff's salary
then we’ll talk about production levels.
Glad to see you accept failure. Your employees are probably goofin’ on you as I post!
Just somebody I figure you can relate to......
Careful…..he ran so much that the wind ruined his face. Don’t want your mouth to end up looking this way……
Twon you should be ashamed of yourself!!!
I totally agree with you Rbanner. I dont have any delusions of us being in a playoof race this year. BUT AT LEAST LETS BUILD SOME MOMENTUM AND GET 4-5 WINS THIS YEAR. For the love of God! Have we been cheering for a losing team so long that we just expect to lose and are ok with it? Because I for one am not ok with just winning one game. We had so many draft picks last year that we could have retooled the whole team. I think we obviously missed some opportunity (especially at o-line and cornerback), but either way it is not unreasonable to expect the first pick in the draft to be a special player! I felt like we were making good progress this year until the Rams game——that was a must win for us. Now it looks like we might not win another game this year. Who do we have left on the schedule worse than the Rams? All that to say Stafford should be held accountable and if he did not want to be he should have not taken the 45 million from us.
I tend to agree with Toledo on this one
We and Schwartz should set the standards high and uphold those standards regardless of experience. Or, if you want, factor in experience before you set expectations………….either way Staff is falling short of expectations, flat out or rookie-adjusted. Its OK but he hasn’t played well, period.
Did any of us on POD really have faith that Staff was going to lead us to a TD with 1:50 left and no TO’s?? No, of course not and he didn’t………..he wasn’t even close. That final interception was downright ugly.
Listen, I’ve invested 30 years of my life with this team and won’t give up now but I am a little tired of making excuses for shitty ass teams on the field.
As TWON would say: Restore the Meow………………
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me and the great Herman Moore
That last INT was directed at a
WR who hadn’t played in 3 games and obviously ran the wrong route.
Not an excuse, but a fact.
No
That last pass was directed at BJ. Stafford under threw it, and admitted as such:
"That last one was tough, we were moving it pretty good. If it gets over that guy’s head (cornerback Josh Wilson), it hits Bryant Johnson in stride on the sideline,’’ Stafford said.
We weren't always shitty...
…the 90s saw several playoff runs, my friend. It just takes the right combination. No excuses were being made. I am simply reminding everyone of the reality of the situation. We weren’t a playoff team from the beginning.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
TWON
Agreed – I dream about 1991, 1993, 1995, etc. We were there every year. I relish those days and remember them fondly. I want to get back there desperately (as all of you do too I assume) and would literally kill for an 8-8 season right about now.
I’m also a realist and I knew we weren’t going to the playoffs. I think we’re headed in the right direction but these teams of the 2000’s have been shitty beyond belief.
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me and the great Herman Moore
There's no argument from me there....
….it’s been a decade to forget. But perhaps the next decade will be helpful in forgetting in it.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
those 90's teams got me hooked
the 90’s is when I really started paying attention to the NFL as a kid and that’s when I got hooked…..yeah, they were up and down from one year to the next, but man, I loved those guys – I still dream about them too! Herman Moore, Perriman, Spielman, Barry…….oh man. Let’s get this train rolling again and create some new memories over this next decade and get some more kids hooked down the road like I got hooked when I was a kid
by Angry Johnny on Nov 10, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
Yay for you, you predicted a rookie NFL QB would struggle on a team that just went 0-16
Well said.
Everybody just relax; it’s all part of the process. Patience.
“I want you to prove progress to me. Prove it with hard facts and statistics.”
Nope. Doesn’t work like that.
QB learning takes place in small ways all during the course of a season. You may see progress in some areas on individual plays (like Staff showing more touch on some passes recently in certain situations), but other kinds of mistakes and learning will still happen on other plays in the same game, so “progress” won’t necessarily show up in the stat column at the end of a given game.
Rookie QB’s have many things to learn. Think of a season as a textbook with 16 chapters. Players on other teams have already read the book, but your rookie QB is reading that textbook for the first time. Soooo……say your QB has read chapter 8, expecting a quiz on that chapter. What he gets on Sunday is a quiz on chapters 8 and 16. He aces the questions on chapter 8, but blows the questions about chapter 16. The overall score looks bad. He fails the test. This is why rookie QB’s are inconsistent. This is why the progress line of rookie QB’s is never a smooth upward line. It’s completely unrealistic to expect each and every game to be better statistically than the last. But he’s actually made progress. He learned the chapter 8 stuff, and got a taste of chapter 16…..he now know what he needs to do, what he needs to learn (go read chapter 16). As a rookie QB you “don’t know what you don’t know”. You find out, though…..often in unpleasant ways.
The answer is……the difference between Stafford and Jamarcus Russell is that Stafford is learning. There are many things to learn simultaneously, so it may not show up in the final boxscore. But Staff is learning. He’s a rookie. Give him time. “NFL QB’ing” is a BIG textbook. Don’t expect him to have read the whole thing already.
Patience.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
These sorta things are always going to happen
Stafford could be three years into his career, having a great season and when he had a bad game, the same sorta people would be complaining about him. That’s just how some people deal with loss…or that’s how some people have fun.
Personally, I prefer to be optimistic, look for the good in performances. That’s just me. If other people wanted to whinge, bitch and complain, fine. I’ll read it and then put it out of my mind. It ain’t affecting me, and it ain’t affecting my team.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
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