Scapegoats a plenty as season end draws near
I'll admit, I've been a part of it... we all have....
This player sucks, this player blows, draft this position and move this player here, we need this position, we need that position..... BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
If we would all stop for a second, Mayhew and Schwartz have shown us the way. Stafford, Pettigrew, Delmas, all rated #1 respectively at their positions have all made an immediate impact on this team. Bottom line, Talent.
So as the draft gets closer and the fanposts get clogged with mocks... I put it to the POD'ers to STOP with the 'needs' and the 'position' talk when describing why you picked so and so for this or that round... because at the end of the day only one thing should matter... Talent, no matter the position. The Lions cannot afford to do anything else.
(and to quiet the smart-asses, I would agree that one could scratch certain positions off the #1 pick list no matter the talent... like TE and QB...K&P)
Its also time we give the current players a break.... the current talent can only handle so much...as is blatantly obvious.
Personally, I could care less who the Lions draft as long as the talent pool goes up.
So there's my pre-mock draft rant... flame on... and I'll leave you with this...

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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how do you deside
berry is best S
okung is best LT
suh is best DT
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
Than we'll pick Dez Bryant....
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
by Hyperion Ecta on Dec 1, 2009 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Oh God let's hope not......
I think Taylor Mays or even Brandon Spikes would be better picks……even if we do resign Foote AND Peterson.
+1
I would love to have Peterson and Foote back (esp. Foote)
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
You gotta be kidding me
Mays has 1 Int. this year. Spikes will have his head handed to him if he tries that cheap shot stuff in the NFL.
Bryant is a beast, with nearly 1,500 yds. last year and 19 TDs.
I agree. Mays or Spikes are not worth the # 4 pick.
I don’t like taking a WR there either. I think the Lions would take Gerald McCoy if that came to pass. Personally, I think that McCoy will be the second player on their board…….after Suh. Unless Derrick Morgan really excels in the combine.
As we sit here today
I perfer Suh over anybody I have heard of so far. Having said that, I still think Dez is a top 5 talent.
I do not think the same of Mays (top 10, maybe) or Spikes (late ist round).
If the Lions did not have their recent WR draft history, I would love having a Dez Bryant on the roster and whoever gets him will likely have a stud receiver for years to come.
I just think the needs on the other side of the ball are so great that they need to be addressed in the next draft and FA.
I agree with you on McCoy, as well.
Bitch and bitch about Millen and the front office.....
and then support the idea of drafting a WIDE RECEIVER in the FIRST ROUND?!??!?!???!?!?!?!?!??!
You guys make no god damned sense whatsoever……
I was mainly replying to your "You gotta be kidding me" post
And I admit that I made the mistake of NOT reading your next post….you can chalk that up to your post history and the typical response it draws out of me.
However, in retrospect you did say that you would prefer Suh over anybody else at this point….which I agree with. Unfortunately, I think Suh will be gone when we pick (unless a miracle occurs and Tampa and St Louis both win another game). I also agree that Mays and Spikes are not necessarily top 10 talent. But, if Suh, Berry (who I also think is not a top 5 prospect, but who will likely be picked there), and Okung are gone and we have the 4th pick, I DO think that Spikes or Mays would be a better pick than Dez Bryant.
Dez Bryant can have all of the huge numbers that he wants LAST year. You made a comment on another thread asking why anyone would want MiQuale Lewis when he has only had half the yards this year versus last year. Dez Bryant only has 17 catches this year for 323 yards and 4 TDs (and that is not mentioning the obvious issues we have had with drafting 1st round WRs that you stated). He was ruled ineligible to play this season for OSU (after game 4) because he had dealings with Deion Sanders, which he lied to the NCAA about. That alone will likely drop his draft stock, and he may not be in form when someone drafts him.
Admittedly, Bryant would probably have had a big year had he not done something so stupid. MiQuale Lewis had a knee injury and has shown an indecisive mentality. It may seem like apples to oranges, but if mentality is the indicator of how either player will turn out, I wouldn’t say that Bryant has the most stable mentality considering the circumstances.
Spikes also showed his maturity level when he tried to gouge the eyes of Georgia’s running back…..however that is the only incident that I know of and he is a monster at 6’3 255, running sub 4.7 in the 40…..not to mention that fact that he has continuously gotten bigger and stronger since becoming the starting middle linebacker at Florida. Larry Foote is great, but if it were a choice between Dez Bryant and Brandon Spikes at pick 4, I would want Spikes (plus he still ranks in the top 8 of all prospects by some accounts).
Taylor Mays is a top 10 prospect as well. At 6’3 230 lbs, he is one of the greatest unadulterated athletes in the draft. His range and awareness as a safety are thought to be unrivaled by any (of those who are not as high on Eric Berry). He has run the 40 between 4.37 and 4.59 throughout his time at USC, the combine is sure to showcase his athletic ability, and his draft stock will likely rise (even though he is already a top 10 prospect by most rankings). Again, if the choice were between Dez Bryant and Taylor Mays, I would want Mays even though he has also shown some maturity issues (they said the same thing about Vontae Davis, and he is doing pretty damn good in Miami…31 tackles, 2 INTs, a pick 6, and 7 pass deflections as the starting LCB).
Gerald McCoy, who many seem so high on around here, could be a good pick too…..IF he declares. However, he has expressed a desire to possibly return for his senior year at Oklahoma. He has 22 tackles and 5 sacks on the season, but he never even came close to Oklahoma State’s QB and he was practically a non-factor in the game (3 tackles, 1 solo….no sacks). If he declares, the media has him rated as the 2nd best DT in the draft…..but is that good enough for a top 5 pick?? He did have a sack and 3 solo tackles versus Texas earlier this year, but I watched that game too and he had very little impact. I was not impressed. I suppose he might be the BPA at pick 4 if Suh, Berry, and Okung are gone….but in my opinion he is not a top 5 prospect and he is not going to make any more of an impact than Taylor Mays (I would take McCoy over Spikes if we will be re-signing Foote, but in my opinion it is a serious toss up between McCoy and Mays even though we likely need the DT more than the safety in the first round).
I believe that this draft will be deep at DT and safety, regardless of what the Lions do with their pick. I’ve seen all of these guys play, and if I had to rank them my order would be:
1) Suh
2) Okung
3) Mays
4) Berry
5) Spikes (if we can re-sign Foote….if not he moves up to 3 and the 2 safties are bumped down to 4 and 5 respectively)
6) McCoy
7) Bryant
For the record
I’m not one of the ones who is high on Gerald McCoy. I haven’t been wowed by his play, and more importantly, I think he would be a bad fit here in Gunther’s system. Bottom line, I suspect the Lions don’t have much interest in drafting a guy who’d be a bad fit, a guy whose skills don’t translate to the system here. You don’t hire a bartender to change tires on a NASCAR pit crew, no matter how good a bartender he is.
I like Suh, Okung, Berry, and Terrence Cody (hopefully top of the 2nd Round for Cody), but (for reasons previously explained) have a hunch that the Lions may miss on Suh, pass on Okung and address the secondary first.
I like Spikes too, if we somehow end up with him. Didn’t Ray Lewis shoot a guy once? Compared to that, what’s a little eye-gouging between friends?
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Then we are not that far apart
Much as it pains me, I have to think at least one QB (Clausen?) will go top 5. I am not sure they deserve it (I would have said yes to Bradfore, pre-injury). There may even be two.
That leaves Suh, Okung, and Berry. Right now, Suh may be the first one gone, although I am not sure it helps the Lions to have too high a draft pick owing to cap issues.
I do think Dez will be the first WR taken, probably no lower than 7 (again, the usual caveats apply).
I talked about this with Nat Moore (shameless name dropping) and he seemed to think Dez had no real character issue. Who would not want to talk to Neon Deion, given the opportunity?
I think you are wrong about Spikes speed, as most boards I have seen have him running 4.7-4.8 as his normal 40 time. He also seems to have issues regarding pass coverage.
Mays seems to have had a better year last year than this, but I don’t think he drops out of the top 10.
Finally, to address McCoy, the comparisons I have seen (silly as they maybe) are to Haynesworth. If Schwartz can’t fit that type into his defense, then the Lions hired the wrong guy.
The best case scenario for the Lions seems to be that a couple of the QBs go early and Suh drops to them. I kind of doubt that one.
I definitely want a CB in a later round, as well as an OL, if Okung is not taken. I really wanted one taken this year (Allen instead of Williams). That was really one of the thinks that bothered me the most in this year’s draft. It wasn’t just who was taken, it was as though the Lions were intentionally pissing off the fans by picking players or positions that fans did not want or did not seem to be the areas of greatest concern.
I agree, comparing McCoy to Haynesworth is silly
Haynesworth was 6-6, 320 when drafted (at least 15-20 Lb more than McCoy). Haynesworth is listed at 6-6, 350 now. Even then, he was an immensely strong guy who used his strength to attack blockers, stop the run, and power his way into the backfield.
http://ten.scout.com/a.z?s=120&p=8&c=1&nid=317775
" COLLEGE: Massive player who becomes the Titans’ largest defender at 6-6, 320 lbs … solid legs and long, thick arms … extremely athletic with fluid lateral movement to make plays down the line … holds ground firmly and attacks blockers … quick first step and strong power charge to effectively get into the backfield … punishing run defender"
McCoy might have the quickness, but not the strength at 6-4, 295 (and less ripped than Suh).
A guy like Haynesworth would certainly fit here, but McCoy doesn’t seem like that guy.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Even though they say.....
That McCoy is a beast in the 4-3 and an anchor type of DT who will anchor a D-line for a decade…..
I disagree….I don’t think he is anywhere close to Haynesworth, and he had to be coached up before he was any good, while he bulked up as well.
As the gates of Hell open to accept the souls of the Detroit Lions.....
A cold Michigan winter wind blasts in and instantly freezes hell over…..thus stopping the Devil from getting his souls. The Lions go on to win the Super Bowl that very year!!
Wow, we should have tried selling our souls earlier!
Why didn’t Bill Belichick tell us it was this easy?
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
And how exactly do you sign them?
Do you have any idea how much that would cost? Even if it were possible under the cap?
lol
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
by Hyperion Ecta on Dec 2, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
I was ready to go off on you here CLF when I read the title.
The Lions are what they are. Most likely final record will be 2 and 14. Not 100% sure how the tie breaks work, but we might just sneak into the second spot in the draft behind the beloved Browns. The Bucs and Rams may move behind us with one win in their final five which may be possible.
I think we will have a 50%chance to get Suh if we are second. Depends on how Quinn finishes the season and if they think he could be their starting QB. If Tampa is ahead of us in the draft I think we have a 1% chance to get Suh. St. Louis may take him if they get ahead of us too. I think they will agonize over the best QB versus Suh.
I am thinking we will draft Okung if Suh is gone…….and we can’t trade down.
Draft position tie breakers & schedule
Teams with an equal records break the tie based on:
1) Strength of Schedule
2) Divisional and conference records are the next tiebreaker
3) Coin Toss
You would think the Lions strength of schedule would be weak based on last years result. The fact is that the previous seasons record only counts for two “strength of schedule” matchups when the NFL Gods make the schedule. This year our SOS games were Washington and New Orleans. The out of division matchups are rotated each year from division to division both within the NFC and AFC.
It’s why we were so fortunate to get Pittsburgh, Cincy, and Baltimore this year. This year we play the NFC West (Arizona, San Fran, Seattle, Rams) and the AFC North (Cincy, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland).
Next year, our out of division schedule will be the AFC West (San Diego, Denver, KC, and Oakland) and the NFC East (Cowboys, Giants, Washington, Philly). Ugh.
So in a nutshell, the Lions schedule next year is:
Minnesota x 2
Green Bay x 2
Chicago x 2
San Diego
Denver
Oakland
KC
Dallas
NY Giants
Philly
Washington
+ 2 SOS Matchups
No offense Det32
especially considering your posts are conprehensive and informative but I HATE MOCK DRAFTS FUCKING STOP EVERYONE!
Dude - chill!
I’d hardly call this a mock. Besides, it’s the one thing Lions fans have learned to hang onto…hope for next year!
Just livin' the dream...
wasnt claiming that this WAS a mock
in fact, i was referring to det32s post yesterday, than again maybe you need to NOT be so chill.
Awesome discussion
I also love the CLF pics (as always). CLF – are you a true ballbreaker in real life??
My point about this draft is the following:
1.) Draft for position – not talent. I would make no sense to take a CJ Spiller if he’s available in the 2nd round when our pick comes up. Our running game isn’t the problem. We need to draft O and D linemen – it’s that simple. Just have Charlie Sanders and all of our scouts do nothing but look at D and O linemen and secondary players. Steep upgraded on the line on both sides of the ball will be at least worth 4 – 5 wins IMO.
SUMMARY: Draft the best talent on the O and D line and CB.
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
Agree 100% with NYC
Let’s build the foundation for this team. Get the lines in order…
2011 draft the playmakers, and in 2012 we make a run deep into the playoffs. Staff and CJ will be in their prime and we’ll have a few years to let these younger players develop.
Just livin' the dream...
So you would pass up the #1 LB...
For the #5 DT?
Because that is what I’m talking about.
>…Oh, I can take it almost as well as dishing it out…lol
by CLF on Dec 1, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
I’d pick Suh or Okung first pick…Doesn’t really matter OL or DL first. We need both. Probably OL more, to protect Stafford. Then get a DT and a DE. Late rounds more Linemen unless a quality DB falls into their lap.
Just livin' the dream...
Agreed
Go with O and D linemen. Guard, Tackle, Center, DT, anything to stop pressure on the offensive side of the ball and put pressure on the defensive side of the ball. I think Schwartz and Mayhew will address this in the offseason.
There are a lot of holes to fill but great teams are build from the inside out. Shit, Millen drafted skill for 8 years and look where that has gotten us.
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
And pick the most talented one of the group....
Which is my point.
by CLF on Dec 1, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
+1
CLF I am with you – of course we would pick what WE percieve to be the most talented one in the group. As you pointed out – we need not look at QB, TE or even LB if we resign JP and Foote.
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
The #1 priority has to be...
Protecting the life of our franchise QB, thats it. build that damn line. We arent going to the playoffs next year ( passion aside, i have to use logic here ) so we just gotta make sure Stafford stays healthy. Just improving the line keeps the O on the field longer and rests our inept defense.
Then we build that defense from the front four.
Love the pics CLF
Proud Detroit Lions season ticket holder since.......2009 !!
For all you "Draft a Left Tackle"-aholics.........an interesting read about our current LT
Also check out the ProFootballFocus site: http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=T&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1
They have Mr. Backus as the third ranked LT in the league, behind only Joe Thomas and Sebastian Vollmer.
I tend to agree that he is nowhere near our biggest problem on the O line. I would like to draft someone to play Left Guard [Iupati?] with the ability to shift to LT in a few years if Backus slows down. That should generate some entertaining comments from the “I hate Sackus” Fan Club.
It's not just Backus, but Stafford is getting sacked from somewhere!
We need youth, and more importantly depth! Backus only has a few years left realistically…Detroit has to start thinking about its future. Stop picking “playmakers” for a year or two and get some Lineman! Once we are solid and deep there, we can start getting the weapons in line.
Just livin' the dream...
+1
Brefstink has got it right IMO
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
Backus has only allowed 7 sacks this season.....
But how many times has his man hurried, pressured, hit, or knocked our QB to the turf behind the LOS? He has allowed less sacks because Stafford gets rid of the ball in a hurry! NL, you of all people should agree…..I remember the whole “Daunte holds the ball too long” argument.
Yeah, be careful what you wish for.........
When Staff gets rid of the ball in a hurry it tends to end up in the other team’s hands or on the ground more often than to our receivers.
I’ll say this one more time, Gosder has been brutal this year. Much worse than Backus. Our Guards, especially Ramirez or Loper or Jansen, have been even worse. Raiola has been no hell, although he stands up for Staff all the time. How about we fix those problems instead of concentrating on our “best” lineman?
lol
Ok…..
I never said he “was not the best offensive lineman that we have”. However, he IS playing the most important position on the line when it comes to protecting Stafford’s blind side. I agree that the rest of the clowns that we call linemen have sucked just as bad, if not worse, but they are also ALL younger than Backus and may still need time to develop. I disagree that Ramirez has been horrible…..in fact I have thought he was doing better than everyone else. The RG position has been a revolving door made of swiss cheese this year, and Gosder has not been doing well at all. I even agree with you that RIGHT guard (at a minimum) should be addressed early in the draft (Iupati or someone good).
However…..33 sacks and 71 QB hits (not including sacks) have been allowed by this year’s offensive line in Detroit. That means that our QB has been knocked down behind the line of scrimmage 104 times this season, including sacks. Of the 71 times that our QB was hit, and not sacked, he has thrown 17 INTs? So 75% of the time that the QB is getting hit (and not sacked), the pass has either been completed or thrown away. I think that is a good thing, and it surely proves that an offensive lineman doesn’t look as bad when his QB gets rid of the ball quickly…..doesn’t it?
On the other hand, it most certainly does not mean that this offensive line IS better than it was last year. Yes, they have allowed less sacks…..but that’s because Stafford gets rid of the ball quicker right NL??
Okung would be a huge help.
At the risk of stating the obvious, if we draft Okung, and he starts right away at LT, that means they could move Bachus to RT and maybe move Gos to Guard. This possably would give Gos more time to develope with a veteran next to him, put Backus in a position he might be able to handle, and get us a stud at LT for the future. Just a thought.
What's the bigger need
To protect Stafford or build a better D-line, I have a feeling Backus is going to finish out his contract and D-line will be the 1st thing adressed.
Keeping Backus and protecting Staff are not mutually exclusive.
Like I said, pick up one of the top Guards in the second round and use the first round pick for a defensive playmaker [Suh or Gerald McCoy].
I say we draft Colt McCoy
and run a 2 QB set….. Call it the two-headed Lion.
by CLF on Dec 1, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
and Tebow in the 2nd round...
Three Heads are better than Two, right?
We’ll just Hog all the QB’s then they can’t Torch our secondary. We can call it “Subtraction by Additions”
But I agree with NL.....
Unless maybe Trent Williams falls to the 2nd round and we already drafted a DT in the first…..
Even then, I guess I would be happy getting a guard…..as long as that guard is worthy of a 2nd round pick (I honestly think that we can get a very good guard in a later round, but if the BPA is a guard, then I’m good with it).
We can start 5 QBs and 6 Rugby players...
We’ll just run all over the place, lateraling the ball like crazy. I know one Aussie that can start scouting the Rugby players for us.
lol....
I was going to take it even further, but when I read what I was going to say I thought it was going too far, so I deleted it….:o)
The 5 QBs could toss the ball around in the backfield like the globetrotters….and the trick plays could run wild!
5 QB's on unicycles and 6 rabid weasels!
(taking a minute to imagine how that would look on video……)
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Love boobies!!!
Benny Hill is the man
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
Might work....
NFL Defences wouldn’t know what hit em.
I’ll name a few names (you guys will have no idea but I don’t care)….Matt Bowen, Darren Lockyer, Ben Creagh, Benji Marshall & Jarryd Hayne. Yes, they should do quite nicely.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
by Hyperion Ecta on Dec 1, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
+1
I would be cool with that……………..
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
Actually.....
The Lions DO need a QB.
We saw what happens when Staff is out of a game. When he plays, there is like a 60% chance we will loose, but when he DOESNT play, we have a 95% chance of losing. I think Stanton is content with riding the oak and Daunte, well, we all know what he is capable of.
4th or 5th round we should probably invest in a decent QB, AND replace Daunte as well. I am sure there will be another vet we can scoop up for a decent price.
as for our first pick, i really dont think Suh will be there so lets not even worry about it. If he is, great, but after watching the last game, (thank you NFL Game Pass!!), I see exactly how pathetic our pass rush is and ALSO how important a good Safety is. I’d say go with Berry. He seems like a ball hawk and plays with the intensity of Delmas, but with a little better decision making skills.
I think you can find a good tackle in rounds 3 and 4 as well. I hate to say it, but i think Gos is worse than Backus, but i really doubt if the Lions will get rid of him so early. The only guys i see leaving our o line is Salaam and Jansen. We need some youth in there!
I agree about the possibility of drafting a QB in the coming draft
If Dan LeFevour is there in the 4th…..that would be a good pick in my eyes. However, it may be difficult to justify drafting a QB when we have so many other needs. If the BPA happens to be a QB in the 4th or 5th round however, I think it would be a smart pick.
Dan...
I think Dan would be a GREAT pick!
Yeah, its hard to justify, but with our current QB depth a loss is pretty much guaranteed, like a government check.
Capitol would surely agree
I would, however, get someone with more experience and not waste a draft on a “project”
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
I do not see him as much of a project
Sure, he would need time to learn the offense, but he has all of the intangibles and he would be a backup anyway.
Same goes for a 3rd RB to replace Maurice Morris
I’d be happy with one of the big power backs in the middle rounds if he’s the BPA. Upgrade, and better fit here.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
For me, it's a question of context
Obviously, with the first 1 or 2 picks, picking BPA along with a need makes sense. But down the board, around the 4th or 5th round, if we have a RB or a LB or something who’s a 3rd round talent, than I say take em….like you said CLF, we need to increase the talent pool.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.

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