Trade Calvin
by lionsfan85 on Dec 14, 2009 10:36 PM EST
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PrintI have come to the realization lately that we should trade Calvin Johnson this off-season. He will still have 3 years left on his contract (other teams will value that), and he is underachieving on our team. There are lots of teams out there that would love to have him as their #1 (and I just think in general WRs are overvalued). I think we could easily swing a starter, a high 1st round pick, and a 3rd round pick.
Imagine having a new starting OL with the starter, the #3 pick, the #10 pick, a high 2nd round, two high 3rd rounders, and so on. I would go:
R1.3 - DT
R1.10 - DE
R2 - OL
R3.3 - CB
R3.10 - DE
R4 - LB
R5 - S
The rest comes down to best available. Imagine if we could add a S or RB in F.A. That would replace at least 7 positions. That would be a huge group to build around in years following. I understand our offense would be terrible (strictly run based), but really our offense struggles moving the ball anyway WITH Calvin. At least this way you are set up to finish the OL/DEF the following year, and plug in skill position players around Stafford the year after next. Give Schwartz some playmakers on DEF.
Pull a Granderson - trade your only player of value. Also, we all know Calvin is gone in three anyway.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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No Trading of CJ....this is not Madden 10
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
maybe gone in 5 we can tag him 2 times
+ by then hopefully we got something going
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
I am aware this is not Madden 10, but this is not a ridiculous trade offer. You’re not getting the production form Calvin of a #2 pick, nor will you with standard drafting in less than three years. Then, he is bye-bye.
This is a ridiculous offer
Do you want to be the person that lets the greatest wide receiver of all time go? No, No you do not.
Is Calvin the best now, no, will he eventually be regarded as such, who knows. What I do know is, he is not a bust, which is rare considering when he was drafted. But still if he becomes as great as we all expect him to be do we want to be the team that let him go, the team that didnt see his worth, no we dont, and i do not think we will be. He will be like Barry, stuck here no matter what.
One of Us! One of Us! One of Us!
but for the sake of this post
2010 1st
2011 1st
2010 2nd
2010 4th
2011 4th
and a starter i would think about it
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
you know what i dont even like this
i understand the fact that us as lions fans will overrate him but he means more to me the 4-5 starters
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
may I ask why? I understand he is exciting, but he has amounted to very little in the win column, and on his own (which is what will happen again next year) he just gets shut down every game because we have 0 talent elsewhere.
don’t fucking correct me you aren’t worth the TP i wipe my ass on
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
Actually...
….he can’t win the games by himself. You don’t get rid of your best players when you aren’t winning. Good thing you aren’t our GM….we already had 1 Millen.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
I think the Lions’ management has the same belief. We can improve much faster overall if we trade him for multiple picks/players.
no...please not again
that was millen. he wasted how many 1st rd Wr.. didnt we have berry and moore when millen took over ??
dont quote me but i think berry left when millen tock over maybe i on crak
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
I dont totally disagree with this
simply becasue we are so far from a team that can utilize his abilities……Now im not saying we should im just saying I can see the argument for it
by BennieBladesFan on Dec 14, 2009 11:04 PM EST reply actions
Exactly, he is useless to us because we have 0 talent around him. He can give us a lot of players in return.
Just for clarification…
the #10 pick, a starter, and a 3rd rounder is not too much for Calvin.
The #3 pick would already be our own (thank you 2 win season).
#10 pick too low for calvin
we picked the guy @ the 2nd pick, and he has lived up to that. i would not do it for the 10th pick, a starter, and a 3rd rounder.
if you give me like two top ten picks, a pair of third rounders and a starter or two, then it might be conisderable
The beginning of the end of the misery
what
no. I agree we need alot but we need top build around talent. Not hope that we might recieve more talent by giving up what we know is talent.
but do you really think he will stay? this trade gives us talent – 5 picks in the first three rounds plus free agency.
if we dont think he will stay he will be traded week 6 of his contact year
but hats not happong b/c we can tag him.. can you trade taged players?? if so weeks 6 of the 2015 season maybe then if he dont resign
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
thinking too far ahead
there is still three years, plus lets assume the lions tag him, so basically we have CJ for 4 years. we have a franchise QB, who will improve in seasons to come and realistically, we are about two drafts away from being competitive, so ya i think there is a shot that he stays in the D past 2015.
The beginning of the end of the misery
i understand
but like the browns we suck at playing cards and I know what we got now and its most likely we would probably screw it up.
think the management is pretty good @ playing cards
roy for 1st rounder, redding for peterson
The beginning of the end of the misery
I understand it is a stretch to hit on all 5 picks (although last draft shows promise), I just think we’ve seen this show long enough.
Calvin on his own has little effect in the win column. If you keep him you can only add what, 3 starters at best? I’m hoping for all on DEF. That means the OFF stays pretty much the same; again, a waste of his talent. The following year you will still have holes all over the DEF and OFF, and again just three chances to hit.
This post doesn't really even warrent a response, but I'm going to give it one anyways
We are incredibly thin at the Wide Receiver position as is. You want to get rid of a talented player, you have to make sure you have someone to back him up. So if you so desperately want to trade players, look at the LB position and pick anyone.
If Calvin sees this team turning the corner in the next couple years, he’ll have no reason to leave, so there’s no reason to say (at this point) he’s gone in 3 years. CJ is not a diva and its not like he’ll have to go to a big market.
Read my Lions analysis at: http://www.studyofsports.com/?cat=142
But if you really think Stafford is what you’re paying him, he can make WRs better in 3 years (and keep in mind he will have a much better chance at a solid DL and OL with my plan – simply, more picks = a better chance). and again 767 and 4 tds…that is not #2 pick worthy. By the way, you have a DEF minded coach and 0 playmakers on DEF. Look to my above response on why keeping him makes little sense.
are you a lions fan or you just some one from another team that needs a WR??
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
lol...bad way to start your posting in POD
I see the point you are trying to make with trading Calvin, but the thing is, you’re really not gonna get as much back as you think you are.
The beginning of the end of the misery
no your not... a lions fan would not intrdis himslf by sayig to trade a best player for a 1st and a 3rd
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
haha. For a WR to get the ball it takes a lot to go right – running game, offensive line, quarterback…right now we have none of that. So again, his effect is so minimal. On a good team Calvin would be putting up so much more in the stat column, and win column
I'm a Lions fan and I would love this trade.
Calvin isn’t even a top 10 receiver. A 1st, 3rd, and a good player at a position of need would be a sweet deal.
Um a team who's on the verge of being good that need help in the passing game.
Like the Bears, Dolphins,I would even say the Jets, Bills (since TO’s career is done), the Redskins would do it because of Mr. Snyder. I know the Bears couldn’t cause they have no picks and we’re in the same division so we wouldn’t do it anyway but there are teams that would.
You don't trade your best players...
…when you are rebuilding. You can trade decent players, but not your best, core players. That’s idiotic. You build around a CJ.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
look how bad the offense looked without CJ...
unless we are trading for Fitzgerald. There is no way you trade your best offensive player
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
NO
How the hell is Stafford suppose to develop without a star receiver. This is the exact opposite of what we should do and keep him until he retires. This guy seems like the type of player that would love to go deep when Stafford has more time. If this team is ever going anywhere they need to keep him. Now I understand the need on defense but if this team has no offesne the defense will be bad no matter what. If we cant get Suh we need Okung and I cannot stress that enough. The only way we shouldnt draft Okung is if Suh falls into our laps and he is too good to pass up.
You are
fucking insane! the dumbest thing to do to a starless line up is to take more risks on possible busts! WE GOT LUCKY THIS YEAR IN THE DRAFT. Most draft picks end up back ups and wash outs! This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Especially if you want to take a bunch of offense and deffensive lineman who tend to bust higher than the avereage position. Sorry I just think that is way out of the realm of sanity.
by Waitingfortheroar on Dec 15, 2009 12:49 AM EST reply actions
WHAT???
I’m not going to insult you cuz that would be rude and I can see the point you are trying to make…..but I completely disagree….we have not scored any points this year with Calvin out……trading him would be a huge risk because Stafford’s development could be hindered by the lack of a big reliable target and that could keep him from getting good enough to make his receivers better in three years. We have some pieces on defense that are long term….no matter how many picks we get its all going to be up to the new coaching staff to actually get these young guys to get better as we add more talent. Our offense has actually been pretty good on the rare occasions everyone was healthy and all those key pieces are young so they just have to gel more and get better.
by dtowntigers4life on Dec 15, 2009 1:08 AM EST reply actions
(rolls eyes)
Why don’t we trade Calvin, cut Stafford and take the cap hit, throw Jason Hanson in the trunk of a crappy blue Chevy Nova, sell Louis Delmas on Ebay, burn down Ford Field, and dig up Bobby Layne to be our QB next year? (not bad for a dead guy)
(oh, by the way……..sarcasm alert)
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Can we trade Culpepper for Bobby Layne's corpse?
Somehow, I have a feeling the staff would start him ahead of Stanton.
I bet we could get a lot of draft picks that way...
… and surely fielding a complete team of rookies would be a massive upgrade… right? We would be the first team to have 25 draft picks in one draft.
again...
as i said earlier, you’re comparing a damn player to a whole unit
that comparison is NOT possible. of course a DEF will bring you wins, but do you know any
team that will give you a whole DEF for calvin?
The beginning of the end of the misery
I can see what you're thinking
And I can respect the bravery in posting something like this, but I do not agree.
CJ is one of the brightest glimmers of hope we have on this team, without him, our offence wouldn’t be able to function properly. Just his presence on the field makes our offence stronger. Opposing defences have to adjust, leaving weaknesses for us to exploit, true, we have trouble exploiting those weaknesses, but with some more talent we may be able to work out something.
Also, you may say that 767yds and 4tds isn’t 2nd overall pick production, but he has been injured and he has missed time, he’s doing fairly strongly in my opinion.
No, I don’t think this is a good idea at all…
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
Yeah... maybe for the first time....
But this is got to be the 3rd or 4th.
Why anyone would want to trade the most talented player on the team for a couple of question marks is beyond me.
-CLF
CLF
Hit hard on this post!! I love the hand signal one!! Very funny.
My response: DO NOT trade CJ. I loved it when it was 41 – 3 and CPep threw that little flare out to Will Heller for 3 yards and 3rd and 8 (great call Linnehan BTW) and CJ went over, slapped Heller’s helmet as if to say “Good job – keep fighting”. I love CJ as much as Herman Moore. Don’t trade him. His value cannot be measured in draft picks. Keep him here as long as possible. We need him to turn this thing around.
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
"real reasons"
It’s your argument… don’t get pissy with me, its on you to sell it to me… and you haven’t.
Try again.
Didn't Ralphgoblue get run off the site for suggesting this very thing?
Ralph, come back all is forgiven! Apparently.
That was before we realized what Calvin truly is.
Andre Johnson gets as much if not more coverage on him than Calvin and he is constantly WIDE open. What does that tell you?
It tells you
that the texans line is better than the lions….there is more time to allow routes to develop, maybe a double move, and andre johnson has a solid chemistry built with schaub. I cant wait to see Stafford and Calvin after an offseason together. Your nuts if you would even consider trading calvin for one player and a couple picks.
Honestly...you guys know I bleed Hononlulu Blue and Silver
But if a team offered us two 1st, a 3rd and a young OL prospect. I would say trade CJ. Is that going to happen. No, so we keep him!
http://cmufootball.blogspot.com/
You simply don't trade a top player in the league
Unless you’re the Denver Broncos, or you truly want to signal that you’re dropping a nuke on the team and saying fuck it for the next 3 years.
Continuity and chemistry are SO much more important than most of us fans realize. I hate to use the Madden reference again, but it’s not like that. You cannot just pick up new people and have them fill in holes. It’s so, SO huge that Stafford has one of the best WR’s in the league to learn with. Throw Grew in there and he’s got tools to work with. The chemistry that they develop is far more important than an extra 3rd and 5th, or whatever.
I know an extra 1st round pick is real shiny and nice, but like someone else said, a new question mark is not preferable to someone who has the size of a huge TE and is faster than 95% of the league. Megatron is truly a freak of nature. If you had Larry Fitzgerald or Ray Lewis or any other top player at their position with, what, 3 years in the league, would you be saying the same thing?
I still might not do it
It would depend where those two first round picks were, the OL would have to be a solid starrter, not a project, and we would have to have a very good option behind CJ to pull of something like that
The beginning of the end of the misery
Hershcel Walker
Nuff Said
http://cmufootball.blogspot.com/
by CapitolLions on Dec 15, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
How 'bout This Angle...
Instead of trading CJ, why not trade/draft more talent at WR to help him out? That way, defenses can’t just double team him or roll coverage knowing that the rest of our receivers suck. Putting more talent around CJ will make him more productive. Then, we’ll see his #2 draft worth start to blossom. I think a few people are forgetting the monster season he had last year (when you consider the 0-16 team he was on). Now with a young gunslinger at QB, and hopefully some wise drafting/off-season moves, this team can start winning games and he’ll want to stay around and show us that that potential he has locked up inside.
hmmm...
i would consider trading any player to help this team but he is becoming a truly elite player. he worries me a little with his fragility. and i agree the WR is a relatively low value position.
BUT
i really see a bright future for the Stafford-to-Megatron combination on offense—they are going to really stretch the field out once Staff gets time to plant and throw at the downfield routes. now if we could find a possession receiver that can catch we might get something rolling and if Pettigrew comes back and continues to develop.
we ARE really thin at WR and we look even worse without him out there forcing Ds to rotate over.
he is one of the few guys on the team that can make things out of nothing:
if you didn’t see this move by Megatron (go to 1:32 in this video):
not bad for a guy who's 5'9...wait he's 6'5!!!!
moving cj in no way shape or affordable form makes this team better next year.
Great clip...Bryant Johnson's best game by far
It looked like the Bryant Johnson show…3 or 4 really nice catches and a TD.
Will Bryant ever become a good and consistent receiver, or is he out of here next year?
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
i think he will be here i honstley dont see WR changeing much this year even if it should
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
We have our Aikman, Michael Irvin, and Jay Novacek....
Stafford (Aikman), Johnson (Irvin), Pettogrew (Novacek). GREAT</> building blocks. KEEP THEM ALL!
Now we just need our Emmitt, OL, and defense and we will be seeing you at the big dance!
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
me too
I was only drawing the correlation between the “herschel Walker” trade of Calvin being suggested, and the way that the Cowboys built out their team.
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
at least this isnt as bad as...
the guy who was suggesting staffords a bust, when he had only played 5 games
The beginning of the end of the misery
NO WAY
I agree it would be temting but what we have is a potential hall of famer something to build around and you forget I think stafford development will be highly limited without a true numer 1 reciver
put it this way you have to trade a 1st rounder just to talk to us about tradeing CJ
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
No way Calvin would bring less than Cutler
There would be 31 teams lined up to take Calvin for a 1st rounder. I promise…ALL 31 others….that would be a steal.
I wouldn’t trade him anyway, but I don’t think Calvin would go for less than 2 1sts and a 3rd plus 2 players like Cutler brought.
I think NFL guru’s view Calvin as Larry Fitzgerald on a bad team. Bigger and faster, but doesn’t get open on his own as well as Fitz.
Besides, with Calvin proving to be a world class player, why would we trade a 1st for a 1st. That would make no sense.
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
Analysts can say what they want
But IMO Calvin > Fitz
Fitz has Boldin and Breaston. Breaston will be Arizona’s #2 next year, and he’ll be very good. Calvin changes games, completely, by himself.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/12/harbaugh-calvin-johnson-is-as-good-as-anyone/
Nuff said.
Wow!! Too much emotion here...
I wrote a post last month with this same theme -Trade Megatron?…Don’t laugh but it makes sense!". I received nothing but flack yet I still think it makes a great deal of sense for the Lions AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME. Sure, CJ’s got the potential to be a great player but…HE’S ONLY 1 PLAYER! The Lions need 30+ more players. And 1 player is just 1 play from having a career ending (or debilitating) injury. He will never, ever, ever, ever reach his potential being a Detroit Lion in this era. Why? Because the Lions can’t utilize his talent with so many glaring deficiencies elsewhere. It’ll take the Lions 3-4 years of making the right moves to build enough talent around him so he can actually showcase his great stuff. I got news for you…he won’t stay a Lion that long. He’s not like a running back, where he assured of 20-40 touches a game. Remember people, he’s a WR. Many things need to happen correctly for him to be a star. He needs a solid OL that will protect our QB, not to mention establishing an effective running game, he needs other good WR’s opposite him so other teams can’t overload him all the time, they need consistent special teams so they can win the battle of field positions once in awhile, and last, but certainly not least, he needs a good defense who can stop other teams offenses so they dont have to throw the ball 50-70 times a game because they’re always behind. GUESS WHAT FOLKS?? THE LIONS HAVE NONE OF THIS!!! And it wont get any better soon, that’s a guarantee. So shop CJ around, get as many draft picks as you can that will fill as many holes as possible. But wait…draft picks aren’t any guarantee of picking up talent, you say?? This will show how good the whole Lions organization is, from their scouts to all their coaches. The scounts for finding talent, and the coaches for developing talent. All winning organizations have this in place, and if the Lions don’t, this will expose another area that they need to rebuild.
Dont get married to any one player…everyone is expendable and replaceable. Leave your emotions out of this and instead, use a little common sense. Bottom line…the Lions can get much farther, much quicker by trading CJ…PERIOD!!!
Where is this Mystery Post you speak of?
You just joined today, so you didn’t Post ANYTHING here a month ago. If you posted this “Trade Megatron” non-sense somewhere else, then I see a pattern developing.
Let’s see, you posted Garbage somewhere and got a lot of Flack for it. Some other jackass posts Garbage here….AND THEY GET FLACK FOR IT.
I see a simple solution. You and this other guy can just E-mail Garbage back and forth to each other and leave us alone here at PRIDE OF DETROIT. Everyone will be happy!
GO LIONS! GO CJ!!!!!
you tell 'em.
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
Yes you are correct…I did just join today. And the post was written in “Bleacher Report” in November. The fans in this blog are typical Detroiters…shot-and-a-beer, unsophisticated, blue collar types who resort to insults when they can’t think of anything intelligent to say.
Shot-and-a-beer, unsophisticated, blue collar type....
Thank you, that’s the nicest description of me I’ve heard in a while. As far as not saying anything intelligent, I disagree.
I think the fact that I figured out that your “Trade Megatron” post was written somewhere else was pretty intelligent.
And I also believe that the developing trend of disagreement with your position that I pointed out. Is further proven by the reaction to your post (on Bleacher Report) and the reaction to this post here. Was a very Intelligent Deduction.
Let me simplify it for you, “No One Agrees With You”, Sorry.
p.s. I’ll always consider Bleacher Report as more of a “Tounge in Cheek” comedy sports site, then a really Sports Fan Blog. Just Sayin’
Now Go Drink Your.....
Glass of Port,
Apple Martini,
Strawberrry Daquri,
Mojito,
LemonDrop Martini, with the sugar rim,
Glass of White Zinfendal,
Glass of Reisling,
June-Bug,
Grey Goose and Cranberry, (for your UTI)
Mimosa,
Midori and Sour,
Amaretto and Sour,
Malibu and Pineapple,
Bay-Breeze,
Sea-Breeze,
Blow Job (shot),
Don’t Mess With “The Bartender” Little Girl…..
Wow... should be only a few moments until Sean bans you....
Great way to join a site. Jump on… start insulting… does this tactic work well for you in life? Many friends? How’s your Christmas card distribution? Pretty low, methinks.
Look you want debate and match wits? I’m your huckleberry. Bring your best vocabulary and most insightful dialogue, because I’ll school you in every way possible…..
we only “insult” people when they come on talking crap and i will admit i am one of the bigger offenders on the insults but i have been shot defending your right and my right to say whatever the fuck i want to who ever the fuck i want
As far as the intelligent goes you are only getting about 5 or 6 of us not the hole site there a few (not going to say there name just so you will leave them alone) that would Wright a dam book about how trading Calvin would not make any sense..
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
oooooooooohhhh!
Don’t do it man……
Don’t correct det32……
oh no, here it comes….
sorry I tried to warn ya….
See footstock's post below
Irreplaceable…
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
by Hyperion Ecta on Dec 15, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Calvin is a once in a decade player
Irreplaceable. PERIOD!!!!
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
Player of the decade??
Tell me, what do you base this decision on? Hard facts? Or raw emotions? Or the countless other fans on this blog who cant see the "big picture? You can’t put a label like this on a player who has had CJ’s numbers to this point.
your right decade is underrating him
he is the best player to ever walk on to a filed
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
Karrasfan is right. What the heck people? Calvin is of little use on our team. We are so devoid of talent he can not have any true impact. Also, in 3 years he is either gone, or you have to give him a max contract. That’s when improvement stops…I don’t like that much invested in a WR.
With a Franchise tag...
You pay the player the AVG of the top 5 salaries in the league at that position. And Duh that is what CJ is Worth. You trade for more picks and you pay questionable rookies based on their draft position. YET AGAIN YOU MAKE NO SENSE!!!!
Yes, I think he will like making millions of dollars...
Playing for an Up And Coming Team Built Around his Talent!
so we should get a team of avg plaer no studs so it cheeper?
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
I would say
the decision is based on both facts and emotion. It is a fact that Calvin Johnson tied for the league lead for TD’s last season, 12, with 78 catches on 151 targets…all while he was on arguably the worst team in NFL history riding a quarterback carousel. The teams we play are now double and triple teaming him on every play…what kind of numbers do you expect him to get with all of those defenders watching his every move?? Besides whats not to love about Calvin? He comes to work every day and he wants the lions to be a winner, what more can you ask for out of your star player? I think that we need to be spending a 2nd, or 3rd round pick on a WR for sure. I wouldnt mind putting Dez bryant, damien williams, or Brandon LaFell next to CJ if any of them make it out of the 1st rd…then we will have our own fitz/boldin-like combo.
Hi Haters! Did anyone listen to 97.1 today? THIS IS THE EXACT TOPIC THEY WERE IN FAVOR OF. Valenti even said he would trade him for Suh and a 3rd.
hahahahha.
Do you listen to 97.1 regularly?
Valenti is a Blow-Hard SportsTalk Radio Host.
THAT’S HIS FREEEAAKKIINNGG JOB. Bring up Stupid Pessimistic situations to stimulate listener conversation and opinion. Is that what you are trying to do here? If so, I’ll just stop responding to your Insanity.
No
Valenti said to trade CJ and the 4th overall pick for Suh. He also said there’s no way he would do it if he didn’t get a pick back
Valenti thinks just because he’s good at fantasy football, he is a drafting expert.
I understand what you’re talking about and it makes for interesting conversation, I just don’t agree with it at this time
Valenti is a moron
Not exactly someone you want on your side.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
by Sean Yuille on Dec 15, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, he is clueless about hoops as well
Last December after UNC beat MSU he said that MSU’s program wasn’t elite. Good call.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
Definition of total failure = using Mike Valenti to back up your opinion.
Ask Mike the genius how his 2009 draft picks are doing.
After coming back and revisiting all of this again I'll say this...
Don’t EVER bring that 97.1 BULL$HIT around here again. Think for yourself.
I understand Calvin is an amazing player, but what has he done for this team? Wouldn’t you rather have a few cornerstones on the defensive side? If Stafford is so great, he should be able to make average WR great later in his career (he needs a line first).
1st look at his number last year(with 5 difretn QBS
2nd nam one WR on the team other then CJ that is averge
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
Again, you must value one player over an entire team. Yes, Calvin is fun to watch, and a great talent. But we will never win until we have a DEF. WRs are a dime a dozen, and the rules favor them heavily.
WRs like Calvin Johnson are NOT a dime a dozen
If they were, every team in the league would have one. I am not valuing one player over a whole team. I’m saying Calvin Johnson is a HUGE part of our team and one of the foundational building blocks that will someday make this team great. Everytime we get a great player… one we can build around… some joker like you wants to oust him from the roster. It is sooooooo counter productive. That’s why you are getting the negative response that you are receiving. You’re just too thick to see it.
+1000
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
by Hyperion Ecta on Dec 16, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE, MOST INSANE POST OF THE THREAD!
So you are saying, swap 3rd round picks. And trade Calvin for Suh (basically the 1st pick) STRAIGHT UP?
Do you think that STL, CLE, or TB would do this? If you do, we really need to get you into a PADDED ROOM!
The only other alternative is that you mean....
Swap 1st round picks with whoever has #1 and Trade Calvin FOR A FUCKING 3RD ROUND PICK YOU CRAZY $ON OF A………. i gotta stop.
One WR does not make a team. Are you a Lions fan, or a Calvin fan? Would you rather see wins, or 100 yards and a TD in a 17-38 loss?
its hard to win when you O cant get a 1st and that what would happon with out CJ
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
In the history of the NFL....
BESIDES the 2000 Ravens w /Dilfer and the 2002 Bucs w/Brad Johnson, name one other team that won a Championship WITHOUT a great quarterback or a quarterback that had a great season?
Those teams had GREAT defenses. Like once a decade great.
Just one……..
Ummmm.... good players help get wins.
That’s like the quintessential part of sports. If you don’t get that…. can’t help you, dude. That’s football 101. You don’t get rid of your best players. That is not the way to build a team.
The Lion’s just invested $70MM in a quarterback and you want to trade his best weapon… weak.
Yeah... but you'll never win without them either.
That’s probably the weakest argument I’ve ever heard. If that’s all you got… time to turn off your computer and get some sleep.
weak argument? what? It absolutely served you.
I am saying you need more talent around Stafford than simply Calvin to win. Everyone in here should agree with that.
Suh is still a prospect
oh and did you know prospects can FAIL!!!
you’re wanting to trade away a proven elite player for a prospect…this isn’t baseball
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yea we do need more then calvin
but if we had a line like the titens a RB like AP or SJ or CJ(titens) can you imagen how swet that would be
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
most players will take cheeper deals if the team looks more promesing
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
Served me? Ha!
Dude, you couldn’t serve me a warm beer in Tijuana. You don’t think that I know that you need more than a QB and a WR? Yes, you need more players than that. But a great combo like Stafford to Johnson would be ludicrous to break up. Thank the good Lord that you are not our GM.
Matt…. Matt is that you?
Matt Millen picked defense, too
He also liked to make stupid trades and give up picks to get players of no value. Every draft he moved up to reach for some player.
have your heard of a QB named manning??
he had a shitty defense, yet he managed to win games
The beginning of the end of the misery
he had 3 his rookie season…then they built a DEF and running game. That is well documented. I have no idea what you are talking about.
He also had a great receiver named Marvin Harrison
…and now he has Reggie Wayne. Maybe they should trade Wayne to see if they can improve their defense. That way they can win 20-17 instead of 35-17.
i dont know why no one has brought this up.. RW went for 1st 3rd and 6th.. yet you want to trade CJ for a 1st and 3rd.. i garenty you any foot ball fan would say CJ is top 5 ime he is top 3.. and if you said where is roy on the list.. they would say who the fuck is roy
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
the starter dosnt mean shit to me.. that never works out well for us
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
for some one that thinks insults shows lack of intelligent you are chop full of them
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
I agree CJ is extremely talented. He would be even more talented if he played elsewhere. On our team he is not going to add to the win column. You know what will? stingy DEF.
I agree about a great defense and I would love to see that here. I just think trading away our best talent isn’t the way to build at this time.
It would be hard to say bye…but I don’t see us going anywhere until we have a DEF. Don’t you want it to be easier for Stafford to win? Wouldn’t it be nice if he only had to put up 20 to win, rather than 38 to win? Imagine if the offense is this bad next year. People are going to toss around the bust word (even though he will likely not deserve it).
you sound like you wanna start the RE-Build all over.
We are moving in the right direction. Just have a little faith. I know your young but sometimes You gotta Shit….. You can’t always get off the POT.
has the re-build ever ended? Or gotten us to the playoffs?
Exactly, it is stalled. Yeah, we need to shake things up, and get a sold DEF
totally depends on the quality of the starters
…and whether or not there are other means of acquiring those starters
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it’s one starter, and two DEF rookies. Weren’t you the one saying be patient? Wait for all this young talent to build together. You could have a new Ravens, or Bucs DEF from a while back.
or we could just give up calvin for free
if those two rookies are busts. thats why you don’t trade young talent…if you have to trade stuff, you trade away older talent to take chances on young, unproven players
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You are losing my interest. If Stafford has a DEF and run game around him, it will make his job easier. Then you plug in skill position guys.
tell me of one team that has tried this strategy
and has flourished with it
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Emmitt was before the the " Great Trade "
Eric Williams was the only player worth anything they got from the trade. Other players:Godfrey Myles, Kelvin Pritchett, Curvin Richards, Clay Holmes, and Gregg Briggs.
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
nice
so ur plan to rebuild a team is to pull the greatest trade in the history NFL…again???
good luck with that…see how many suitors you find for it
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Really? Your using that?
They have built around Manning. I don’t care if Harrison was there first. They didn’t try and build the team around him.
and whats so different about what we are doing?
so we got our great wideout, we got our franchise QB, the next step is a O-line isn’t it?
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it would also slow down our offense
the question comes down to the fact: are you adding enough to justify the loss? and if you throw out a completely hypothetical case, the answer is HELL NO.
give me some names, tell me which team, which players you’d trade for.
For example, if you told me, we trade CJ to the Raider for their 1st round pick + 3rd round pick + Asamougha (im sure i spelt it wrong) + Chris Johnson…I would say yes
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Oh ok.
Don’t know much about the raiders. I was gonna say that trade if it were the RB Chris Johnson then no player in history would be worth that. Plus I was wondering how a titans player got in that mix lol.
release D-White??
its not too much to afford, Calvin has a pretty big contract himself
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Because he is a max player
If he’s worth it… pay him. If he’s not… don’t. Why is that such a conundrum for you?
because it won’t allow us to add other players elsewhere. You have seen the names on this roster, right? Talent takes money. So you’re going to need some to spread around.
TRUMP CARD!
There is no Salary Cap that I’m aware of in 2010. The Ford family is making more money off the Lions right now than the car company. You think they don’t have the money to invest in this team. YOU"RE CRAZY!!!
Well as of right now there is a cap, so I wouldn’t operate my team with the hope I can spend infinite money. Also, except for a very few times (Dre Bly comes to mind) over paying players rarely brings them to Detroit (and if I were a GM, I would want to get away from that method – it’s just not successful, i.e. Damien Woody)
Why would you not want to emulate the best franchise in the past decade?
It’s about overall team talent not one really talented player at the expense of the rest of the team.
Calvin is good and is fun to watch sometimes. Don't get me wrong.
But what if he just keeps playing like he is? Right now this season he is extremely overrated and if a team makes a really good offer while his stock is high then why wouldn’t you take it.
Because he is a great player...
on a piss poor team with a rookie quarterback. The guy is a once every five years type of wideout that you use to build a great team. What is Arizona without Larry Fitz? What is Houston without Andre Johnson? That is what Calvin is to Detroit. Once the other pieces are in place, he will be a big part of our success.
Why is this so hard to see? I don’t get it. You try and try to get good players in the draft and the minute we get one, everyone wants him to be traded. What’s going on here………
What's the point of paying stafford 70 mil...
if you just want him to hand the Ball Off all the time. We need more of just about everything, and less of nothing.
I don’t want him to hand the ball off all the time. Develop an OL to protect him, and a run game to remove the coverage
trading one freakin player wont get u all those pieces
ya, its obvious that a good OL, a run game, and a DEF gets u wins. a 7 year old can tell u that , but trading one player wont get u a damn o-line, and defense
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So what you are saying is...
that anyone we draft high, we should plan on trading before they hit the end of their rookie contract? That about right?
That’s the dumbest logic I’ve ever heard. If Calvin is worth the big bucks at the end of his contract, give him half the city of Detroit… I don’t care. You keep him in a Lion’s uniform. That’s what the good teams do.
by DrewsLions on Dec 15, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm almost there, too
I just love to argue too much…… :o)
Especially when the other side of the argument is pointless….. rbanner, anyone?
pointless? adding 3 starters to the worst DEF in the NFL three years running? Like I said WRs are a dime a dozen. Don’t even get me started on the rules which benefit the WR. You can pick WRs up later. Build an OL and a DEF first
Yup... pointless.
Trading the best player on our team for a bunch of “Prospects” is not the smartest move in the world. Wanna talk trading Ernie Sims? That’s makes sense. We have a replacement and he is not a vital part of our team right now. If we get rid of Calvin, who exactly do we throw to? Have you not watched our offense without Calvin? Sheesh. Like I said… pointless.
Build the OL and DEF, then put in skill pieces. Trading for picks lets you do that much faster. Sorry, but you don’t need the best WR in the game to win. You need a complete team.
If you have a great o-line and no skill players you don't win either.
Six of one, half dozen of the other. You need a complete team… that includes a good wide receiver.
Look...
your strategy would work, if we hadn’t started with another one already.
what you’re asking the lions to do is what really what pittsburgh and new england did, but
the lions are really following another model of rebuilding (more like what the colts did)
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Why is it pointless?
Calvin isn’t a top 10 receiver right now. Bad team or not. He’s not making this team any better right now. When he gets doubled he is completely worthless. When a receiver like Andre Johnson gets doubled he is still open on every play. And don’t say it’s because they have better receivers either because they don’t. What do you not understand about that? Your saying your not disappointed in the slightest by the way he has played this year? Because i am. It’s pretty frustrating when he is supposed to be THAT good and he doesn’t show the ability to break away from coverage like the other elite receivers.
Maybe I'm just ok with it because of this year.
Last year I would have said no way in hell. But this year he just doesn’t look the same. it could be injury, it could be because he is sick of being on this team, or it could be because of the lack of talent around him ( but last years team was worse). I don’t know, you don’t know, and nobody knows the answers except Calvin.
I would argue that the Texans have a better team (much better DEF, and run game) hence other team’s cannot focus as much on AJ. But that is exactly why I want to trade Calvin. Put in other pieces first, then plug in skill.
Oh they def. have a better team.
But not better receivers or RB’s especially since Slaton blew this year. They have no receivers or RB’s to take coverage away from Andre.
****sigh*****
Is he not on a horrible offense right now? Has he not been injured most of the year? Does he have ANYONE opposite him that can draw the CONSTANT double and triple teams away from him? Do the Lions have any consistency in the running game? Shall I go on and on and on and…..
Johnson is supremely gifted and a great receiver on a really bad offense. Hopefully, we beef up our O-Line and Stafford improves…. then Calvin can showcase his talents. Stafford will take a HUGE step back without the abilities of Calvin Johnson on that field. It would be the most ridiculous move in franchise history because of that reason alone. Not to mention trading one of the most talented players since Barry Sanders.
You think they'll get a great o-line and defense in ONE OFFSEASON...
if they trade Calvin… hahahahahahah…
Not happening.
You just said three post up...
…and I quote “OK so they focus on the OL this draft. The DEF will still be the WORST IN THE NFL then.”
Does that not mean you expect them to be much better next year…. after your Calvin Johnson trade?
Nope
Neither will any of the draft picks you receive for him. Got that? You need all the piece and it ain’t coming together in one off-season. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
? High draft picks on the DEF side will improve the DEF hence making it easier on the offense. Don’t you believe that?
more sigh
no he said that we need other players in order for calvin to show us his full potential
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the process will be so slow…this year what if they actually DO focus on DEF. That means the offense will likely be the same next year. Again, he will be doubled every play.
Ditto
And a paper due. I’d like to not have to monitor this thread, but it just feels like someone is going to lose their temper at some point.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
Not when it is based on moronic and pointless speculating
Especially when one person comments the same damn thing every five seconds.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
I think that has been covered by everybody who has refuted your idea
You don’t trade away your most talented player for picks that might turn into good players, especially when there is nobody to step in for him. If it were a situation where we found a diamond in the rough at WR and Calvin was somewhat expendable then I could understand it. But our receiving corps absolutely blows outside of Calvin, and nobody else on the team is capable of being a #1 receiver. Sure, you might improve your defense, but now the offense is even worse. Stafford has nobody to throw to, and with Kevin Smith possibly being out for an extended period of time and not returning to his current form, the offense would really be in trouble. Having Calvin improves the running game and opens things up in the passing game. Take him away and there are no real weapons on offense.
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