Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Explaining Jeremy Lin's Early, Surprising Success

Lions Identity - Part 2


Ok, so we've talked about it, and it seems most of you want to keep Megatron!  I understand.  He's awesome.

Let's move on to the business of building this team.

Star-divide

First, we have to decide what type of offense we'd like to run.  We could do a open passing game:  3 WR's, shotgun QB, TE out on routes, HB running lots of screens and draws, and quick hitting passes.  Think Colts, Eagles, Pats...

Or we could go for a more balanced, play action passing game.  Much like the Vikings.  2 solid WR's and maybe a split TE.  Other TE stays home to block.  QB under center, often 2 RB's behind him.  Lot's of straight ahead running, off-tackle, and a few nice fakes leading into deep passes.

My opinion is the Balanced Offense.  We have one WR.  We'll need another...  We have the TE.  We have the QB.  RB is a question, with Kevin Smith unfortunately going down.  Let's add one to be sure.  We'll also need to add a nice OL to help out.

So heading into the draft, here are some possible scenarios (loosely based on Walterfootballs mock, and possible players selected around our picks):

1st pick - R. Okung OT.  Help shore up our OL so Stafford and CJ can do their thing

2nd - G. Tate WR.  Here's the bookend to Megatron and Pettigrew.  No more triple teaming CJ!

3rd - T. Gerhart RB.  Tough minded between the tackles runner.  Set's up the play action pass perfectly

-OR-

1st - Dez Bryant WR - Best WR this year, but got in trouble.  Roll the dice?

2nd J. Best RB - great RB from CAL

3rd C. Black OT- Big lineman

 

So now the big conundrum...we've given the Offense a lot of help.  But neglected our Defense yet again...Can you guys deal with this?  We're gonna lose again, but it will be 45 - 35 instead of 45 - 7.  If we only take one offensive pick, it doesn't seem like enough to help out and again would probably lead to little improvement in the record.

Hopefully, we can get by with Kevin Smith next year and A. Brown.  That may let us use the 3rd pick on a DB or something...

If we draft ONLY defense this year, do you think that would be better or worse than the above options?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.

Comment 70 comments  |  1 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

i dont like eather mock at all...

i rather have a D and O in the middle of the pack

then a top 10 O and bottom 2 D

Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??

by det32 on Dec 18, 2009 1:31 PM EST reply actions  

huh?

Just livin' the dream...

by Brefstink on Dec 18, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

you picked all O in your 1st 3 picks

we have the worst D in the nfl and you are going O… with how you are picking you want to be a top O and letting your D take that back seat.. if we pick like this we would have a top 10 maybe top 5 O.. but are D would stay 31 or 32..

i want to go all D but 1 pick and that is a OG in the 2nd or 3rd.. this would put are O at about 15 and or d at about 20.. that sounds a lot more competitive IMO

We have all ways gone O side more then D side and look where that got us you want to do that some more??

Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??

by det32 on Dec 18, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think Okung is the best OL for us this draft

Yes, Okung is the best OT, but we have a far bigger hole at Left Guard and Defensive Tackle than at Left Tackle. If we go one more year with Backus at LT and grab a stud OG (e.g. Mike Iupati at the top of round 2) next to him, Our O-Line will be very much improved heading into next season.

I think the best value at #4 for us, assuming Suh is gone, will be Gerald McCoy. Fill a huge hole at DT with a very good DT who can start immediately and create an inside pass rush. McCoy + Hill means we’re all set at DT (finally) for years to come.

If we go BPA Offense at the top of rounds 2 and 3, one lineman and one skill position, there will be a lot of talent to choose from. Then we have five more picks in the draft (4,5,5,6,7) to hopefully pull out a few more solid guys to fix the defense. Maybe there’s a decent OT in the mid-later rounds in there too.

by n4ry4 on Dec 18, 2009 1:38 PM EST reply actions  

Ok

So McCoy 1st. Some OG in 2nd.
What would you pick in the third? WR?

I dont count the rds after the 3rd usually, as they are generally BPA, and projects. You can get lucky, but I dont count on them for mock purposes. The first three rounds, especially when you are picking early like we are, are the rounds where you should get solid players.

Just livin' the dream...

by Brefstink on Dec 18, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

no WR at all!!!!

Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??

by det32 on Dec 18, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

we need

another wr though. i would want us to draft defense and ol first though.

by beef99 on Dec 19, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

get young in the trenches with this draft. I am OK with Morris and KSmith even after his injury and pick up another WR in FA.

I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver

Pic - me vs. Bears fans

by NYCLionsfan on Dec 19, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

FA patchwork and jeep drafting WR in 5-7 rounds. One day one of them will hit.

by ATL Lion on Dec 19, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

3rd round

DB..preferably corner.

2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.

by Hyperion Ecta on Dec 18, 2009 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

i heard okung could play guard too

and that he has played it in the past. No?

Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson

by footstock on Dec 18, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

Because he can be moved to LT in the near future, thereby eliminating the need to draft a LT in the near future, and we all know that GOOD guards can be drafted in later rounds to replace him in the future.

by KDawg on Dec 18, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions  

why not draft the G in the 2nd(cant rember his name)

then draft the best LT on the bored next year and hope he can run block better the okung.. now i know you showed me he isn’t as bad as i though he was but ever draft bored says run blocking is not a strength for him and with us wanting to go run happy i donno that he will cut it.. where did you see that he can play G as well?

Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??

by det32 on Dec 18, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh yeah....

And the knock is not that he can’t run block worth a damn…..the knock is that some say he does not FINISH his blocks well. I call BS to that…..the guy runs people over all the time!

by KDawg on Dec 18, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

when i was watching the

Oklahoma-Oklahoma State game, and Okung did not impress me. He wasn’t finishing his blocks, and he often would not get to the linebackers when he was supposed to. I’d rather take an ELITE player like Berry, or Suh if he falls, or trade down.

by beef99 on Dec 19, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

A good guard can make a huge difference

And isn’t he huge? I really would like to get 2 gigantic guards to compensate for Raiola, if his size was compensated for he could probably live up to the stuff people say about him.

by Nate D. on Dec 18, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Just my opinion

But to me a guy who could be a great guard and eventually become a great tackle is better than a guard who could be great.

Splitting hairs a bit, but if it’s Okung vs. Berry I’d go with Okung

by Nate D. on Dec 18, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

i see what you are saying but i dont want

okung to have crap G like backes has had i want a top notch G so it is easyer for a young LT

by det32 on Dec 19, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I have a feeling.....

we’re not gonna see ALL D or ALL O in this years draft. It’ll be BPA, regardless of what side of the ball they play on or what position they play (except QB). I think this regime has already shown us that. I’m sure during/after the draft there’ll be lots of “why didn’t they pick (insert position here)?!!?”

by vanman on Dec 18, 2009 1:57 PM EST reply actions  

I agree

But based on my first post on this topic, there were many posters who said something like “we just need to get an OL, and another WR, and a stud RB and then Calvin will explode”.
It’s kind of a backward way of proving a point thru to it’s logical conclusion.

I would still like to see the Lions draft all big physical Defensive maulers, and a great DB. That’s the ticket back to being competitive, imho.

Just livin' the dream...

by Brefstink on Dec 18, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

IF we follow the BPA to the letter......

And Suh is gone when we pick (we would have the third pick right now if the season ended today), then it depends on St. Louis. If St. Louis takes a QB, then Berry will be the consensus BPA if he declares. If he does not, or if St. Louis takes him, then Russell Okung will be the consensus BPA at pick 3. The beauty of it, which not many people realize (since I have not seen anyone say it except myself and footstock) is that Okung is versatile enough to play GUARD and has done so in the past! We could use him in that respect AND also draft a solid guard in the 3rd round (I say we have to draft a DT in the 2nd if we take Okung in the 1st), thereby solidifying our O-line. We could groom Okung to take over at LT in the near future, while he plays guard for awhile and helps Sackus.

by KDawg on Dec 18, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I like your way of thinking.

If Suh is gone, and I believe he will be, I would love to see us get Okung. Then take a DT in the second. But I would like to see what is out there in a CB in the 3rd before we take a guard. Our D flat out sucks, with the exception of the LBs to an extent. I think our biggest talent need on the team is on the defensive side of the ball.

by Lead Hunter on Dec 18, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

But I worry that even the best corners in the league would look bad with our defensive line….

by KDawg on Dec 18, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong,

If there is another DT that rates better than the CBs, we have to take him. I guess with me it would be BPA favoring the Defense, Assuming we get Okung to help the 0-line. I think I could be happy with that.

by Lead Hunter on Dec 18, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Well put Lead

our D is wretched

I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver

Pic - me vs. Bears fans

by NYCLionsfan on Dec 19, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Yuo seriously listed taking a WR in the 1st round as an option

No matter the talent I dont see the Lions taking a WR in the 1st in the next 10 years. the PR would be a nightmare.

Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain. Lily Tomlin

by Leapin Lion on Dec 18, 2009 1:58 PM EST reply actions  

You*

Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain. Lily Tomlin

by Leapin Lion on Dec 18, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I said it!

Past selections have no bearing on present picks. If he’s that good, I’d consider it.
In the end, I would not take Bryant, as I dont like those with baggage.

Just livin' the dream...

by Brefstink on Dec 18, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

What baggage?

I haven’t heard anything other than the stupid suspension for not fully disclosing that he met with Deion Sanders. I don’t know that he’s worth the #4 overall, though.

by n4ry4 on Dec 18, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I heard......

That Tatum Bell stole his baggage……

by KDawg on Dec 18, 2009 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

ROFL!

A Tater Bell sighting!

“You caught me. You caught the Tater.” (Ron White)

What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.

by GRLion on Dec 19, 2009 1:24 AM EST up reply actions  

My way to the playoffs was

A star running back and a DL that can blot out the sun Now back 2 my cigar

by Wayne Fontes on Dec 18, 2009 2:06 PM EST reply actions  

Well there it is then.

Trade Megatron for tons of picks. Draft Suh, and McCoy and Spiller and we are in the playoffs…LOL

Just livin' the dream...

by Brefstink on Dec 18, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

if we trade CJ,

we’ll HAVE to draft a wr in the first. so then we’d go Suh, Bryant, and Berry. Then we’d take a good corner, a LT, and Gerhart. Bryant got suspended for the whole season just for talking to Deion Sanders. But we can only trade CJ if we get at least 2 first round picks, and a second round pick for each of the next 3 years.

by beef99 on Dec 19, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm running out of original stuff to say!!!

Everyone on here seems pretty knowledgeable about football and the NFL and our beloved Lions. I really hope Schwartz sticks to his guns and builds a team in the likes of the Titans. Big, physical defense and a ground attack offense, with a QB who is capable of the big play every now and then (we all know we have that)

If Shcwartz does what I think he will do then we are going to get a lot bigger this draft, notably on the OL, DL and CB positions. I really don’t want to draft sexy for the rest of my lifetime!!

I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver

Pic - me vs. Bears fans

by NYCLionsfan on Dec 18, 2009 3:11 PM EST reply actions  

agreed

all i want to see drafted are OL DL CB not fucking WR and RB might as well get millen back if we do that shit aghen

Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??

by det32 on Dec 18, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

+1000

You me and Bennie all seem to agree on this point (others as well)

I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver

Pic - me vs. Bears fans

by NYCLionsfan on Dec 19, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

...........and LeadHunter

I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver

Pic - me vs. Bears fans

by NYCLionsfan on Dec 19, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Big, physical defense?

Well, that leaves out DT Gerald McCoy. Like I’ve been saying, he doesn’t fit here. He’s not big, and he’s not strong.

What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.

by GRLion on Dec 19, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

why would we draft a WR in the 1st?? or at all for that matte Dez Bryant will be like 20th pick maybe i wouldn’t be shocked to see him in 2nd…
ALL DL OL CB S
ALL DL OL CB S
ALL DL OL CB S
ALL DL OL CB S
ALL DL OL CB S
ALL DL OL CB S

Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??

by det32 on Dec 18, 2009 3:22 PM EST reply actions  

I think we should consider a WR in the 4th or the 5th

See if we can find a hidden gem…

2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.

by Hyperion Ecta on Dec 18, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

nope none i am sick of drafting WR and them busting

just use FA ones till we have more pieces of the puzzle then we can start that cluster fuck aghen.. if stafford had more time and didnt have to rush the ball out our WR would be doing better

Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??

by det32 on Dec 18, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Mike Williams (no not that Mike Williams) out of Syracuse

headcase but maybe take a flyer on him in the 5th or 6th. He’s uber-talented

I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver

Pic - me vs. Bears fans

by NYCLionsfan on Dec 19, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll say it again..

I never thought Charles Rogers nor Mike Williams were big game breakers. I was like who the hell is Charles Rogers when we drafted him.

by Quez81 on Dec 19, 2009 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Y'all know we need the beef before the skill positions

if all goes well, maybe some skill players in 2011.

Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson

by footstock on Dec 18, 2009 5:04 PM EST reply actions  

Beef requires far more toughness

Which is something you cant teach. The lines are far more difficult than playing any position short of quarterback

by Nate D. on Dec 18, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed.

Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson

by footstock on Dec 19, 2009 1:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I would love to see what Staff does...

with an awesome offensive line. A beautifully created internal and external wall to form the perfect pocket 75% of the time. Then we COULD go with 3 or 4 wides more often, and he would have a) a passing lane to throw through and b) more time to find open receivers.

He seems to do his best work in the 3 & 4 wide sets, but if we look at the tape, we have probably run it less than 10% of the plays (excluding 2 minute drill). It seems like the 2 tight end sets we run most often bring more defenders into the box, and that hampers both the run and the pass game.

I might be smoking crack, ie having no real data to back it up, but it just feels that way to me.

Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson

by footstock on Dec 19, 2009 1:06 AM EST reply actions  

I still have a problem with this whole "Identity" thread

In Part 1, my concern was it was not about creating an identity, but rather about tearing down our identity (trading Calvin) to create a team of average faceless players and failed draft picks. And at best, we could draft the good players to help us without needing to trade Calvin.

Now in Part 2, we are more focused on defining an identity, but ultimately, I see the same underlying flaw as before…….impatience. People in Part 1 seemed to want to trade Calvin for a boatload of picks in a reckless attempt to catapault to the playoffs or beyond in one offseason. Now, in Part 2, people are taking stabs at defining our “Identity”, then using every draft pick, especially the early ones, exclusively to fill those needs, Best Player Available be damned. If you want better WR’s for a high-flying passing attack or a better RB for a run-based offense, etc., etc………you don’t have to get it all THIS offseason! It’s allowed to also address other areas like the Defense, etc. By taking the BPA we can address areas where we need to improve without reaching for players too soon…….and we can still do it without compromising our “identity”……it’s what I’ve been talking about all along when I said certain players (like Gerald McCoy) are not a good FIT here. But this whole talk of “we MUST take a WR (or DT or whatever) in the 1st round”, ……or “We MUST ONLY draft OL, DL, CB, S, etc”………this is reckless.

We have areas of need. We have visions of our “Identity”, the kinds of players we want to fill those needs. But we need to be nuanced and disciplined, take the BPA at a position that isn’t already well-filled, IF that player is a good FIT for our “Team Identity”. I say team. All 22 starting positions matter. Fill them all. Don’t panic, don’t reach, and don’t try to do everything in one offseason, let alone only through 1 draft. Don’t arbitrarily set the position priorities, either. Let the talent come to us. BPA got us 5 starters; it can do it again. BPA that fits.

Oh, and a note about what fits…….Calvin fits. Stafford fits. Like someone said, you build around your stars. Your stars CREATE your identity. We didn’t draft Stafford to have him hand off 30 times a game.

In the words of Paul Silas,

“AM I SPEAKING CHINESE???”

What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.

by GRLion on Dec 19, 2009 1:57 AM EST reply actions  

I read all the great comments above and was going to....

post a long comment somewhere along these lines, but GRLion… you summed it up pretty well.

Although I think we do need some sort of identity, I don’t think we should be labeling it BEFORE we get the players. Our identity should grow from the players we select and mold the scheme to fit said players. The Cunningham and Linehan schemes are sound. They’ve also showed that they are all (including Schwartz) very willing and even eager to adapt to the strengths of the team as they come.

As for the draft… this is going to be a LOOOOOONG off-season. People are already this heated up and it’s NOT EVEN CHRISTMAS! There is a simple answer that will most likely be the way of the Lion’s 2010 draft and that is Best Player Available. GRLion, you and KDawg – most loudly – have echoed this sentiment. There is no way that we are good enough on any side of the ball to say… ALL defense or ALL offensive line or ALL defensive secondary in the first three rounds. Nor does is make any sense to say or do that. We need good players everywhere. It would be foolish not to simply take the best player on the board. That will mold our identity as we grow as a team and add talent.

As for Brefstink’s mock and logic in the original post… I am fine with that as long as those players are the best on the board. In fact, it seems logical to me to surround the man that you decided to set the shoulders of your franchise on with some much needed weapons. That is in the mold of a Colts-type build. That is fine with me. It is also fine to give some love to the defensive line and secondary… as long as those players represent BPA and value for the pick. What is NOT logical is to pass on a talented player that can help this team simply to reach for a need position. That is how most of us create mock drafts and then wonder why we are dissapointed come draft time (me included). Our logic becomes flawed because we all target need versus talent. Sometimes they come together beautifully… sometimes it doesn’t. I won’t make that mistake this year and get myself all hyped up over a bunch on need-based picks. For me, the bottom line is “add talent”. At what positions? I don’t personally care. Just make this team better.

…and BTW… this is going to take a few years any way you slice it. There are NO shortcuts to respectibility… NONE!

Okay… so I guess it still turned into a long comment. Typical, eh…. :o)

by DrewsLions on Dec 20, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

But I liked it!

Excellent comment, Drew!

What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.

by GRLion on Dec 20, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Clearly

we have to do something in DEFENSE…and the lines RB could fall later in the draft or free agency… damn this draft talk is getting me pumped up… it almost makes me forget about the BAltimore beating…

GO LIONS in 2010! the transformation starts now.. they have much to do.

by DINORDO on Dec 19, 2009 7:39 PM EST reply actions  

I want the Lions to remember.

I want them to remember every missed tackle, every blown assignment, every big play that they gave up. That way they might just do something about it in the next draft and FA. I am sure Schwartz will remember the baltimore game for months to come.

by Lead Hunter on Dec 20, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

That guy is awesome

I love the Gruden type of intensity he shows on the sidelines…..it is clear as day when he is PISSED OFF, and I LOVE IT!!

by KDawg on Dec 22, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's blog that is your source for everything Detroit Lions.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Blackhole_small
By The Numbers: Ndamukong Suh 2010 Vs. 2011
Small
2012 NFL Draft Sleeper Defensive Lineman
Small
2012 NFL Draft Sleeper Linebackers
Samuraijack_small
The 23rd Pick: A 20-Year History
Samuraijack_small
Decision 2012: Left Tackle For The Lions

Recent FanPosts

Small
Sporting News Mock Draft - Russ Lande
Small
Simms Believes Stafford Will Make Jump to Elite Status
Small
NFC North Salary Cap Situation - Team-by-Team
Small
Routt Released By Raiders
Small
2012 Salary Cap Casualties The Lions Could Target
500x_delmas_medium_small
NFL Announcers.... Who's the best of the best? (POD STYLE)
Nfl-honors-show-football-b541a6888f6679d3_small
Potential target for Detroit at corner ?
500x_delmas_medium_small
Snipers at the SuperBowl

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managing Editor

Pod_small Sean Yuille

Writers

Detroit-lions_small simscity

Untitled-2_small Latif Masud

41li1jpy5il Mavyrk