IMO, why Suh slips past the Rams
by londonlion on Dec 21, 2009 10:31 AM EST
68 comments
Yeah sure spags would LOVE, and I am sure has woke up drooling about the idea, to add Suh to his front four...but...look what is already in place...
DT Adam Carriker, 13th overall pick in 2007
DT Dorrell Scott, 4th round (103 overall) pick in 2009
DT Ryan Clifton, 5th round (154 overall) pick in 2007
DE Chris Long, 2nd overall pick in 2008
The only area of need on this line is to replace the aging Leonard Little who is 35. One can argue that Carriker was a DE in college & is the heir to Little's side...however I don't see it. Plus, just as the lions are not likely to invest huge $$ into more OL due to existing contracts on the line (a la Backus, Cherilus, Raiola); the Rams have many positions of need and their D-line is certainly not one of them.
Then you look at their QB situation...
Marc Bulger (1686h overall pick by Saints in 2000)
Kyle Boller (19th overall pick in 2003 by Baltimore)
Keith Null (6th round 196 overall pick by St Louis in 2009)
Mike Reilly (signed from GB practice sqaud)
Boller is not the long term answer in St Louis, and next to getting an actual big "go to" WR (Donnie Avery is a Welker-esque WR#2. Bulger year after year has been fading skill wise and health wise. SJax is a beast of a back, but he needs a pass game that can relieve some of the pressure from him. Spags knows this as a DC guru, if there is only one weapon on offense, a RB, it makes the defenses life much easier. Rams were in love with Jake Locker and were rumored to take him above any other QB. Now, it would seem like Clausen is the choice du jour even though I think Bradford may sneak in here. Either way, since there is no stand out WR and the tackle position has depth to grab in the second round...similarily on the defensive side...there are many safeties to complement Atogwe and the d-end position has depth too in order to get the replacement for Little if they are not happy with the others they have in line now...the only pick that makes sense is QB. The Rams are in the same draft boat the Lions were in last year. Yeah they could pick up Suh...yeah they could draft Okung...they need their franchise QB. They were incredibly lucky under Martz, they pulled Warner from the frozen food section & plucked Bulger up as a FA after spending time on the practice squad in both St Louis & Atlanta. The Rams have not had to draft a QB in a long time. They have spent many recent picks upgrading & developing their dline. This pick is all QB. Bulger still has three years left on his contract, thus in drafting the next QB they have a luxury that if Bulger continues to be injury prone they have their heir apparent in the wings. If the heir apparent out plays Bulger in the offseason/preseason as we witnessed Stafford do, then they have a vet who has performed w/ the team and who knows the Rams system well to guide their young padawon.
It is a possibility, don't get me wrong. I just don't see them passing up on the QB. The Bucs were the only team I was truly worried about taking Suh. At the end of the day, the Rams are rebuilding just as much as the Lions. RB & DL are the two positions least in need of building. Their needs as I see them are:
QB
OL
WR
OLB
DB
Again I will reiterate, Spags would love Suh as his pick. Looking at what he had in NY on the defense it does make sense. But, the difference here is that he doesn't have the offense he did with the Giants. An offense that can allow the defense to rest. My call here is Clausen or Bradford. And with the #2 pick, the Lions select Suh. I'll admit, I didn't think we would see this even as a remote possibility; now I think it is probable.
There are two potential glitches:
1. Spags says defense wins, and completes a formidable Dline
2. Rams draft Clausen/Bradford which creates pannick in other teams looking for a new QB (Carolina, Washington, Raiders, Seattle, Cleveland) and we trade down. But this has become less likely as the Lions have moved up the draft order with a better shot at Suh, I think there are other trade partners now. I think we may just luck out like we did when the Raiders chose Jamarcus Russell & we got Megatron. IMO, we just drafted Beast (X-men based nickname :) )
I really like the way this is starting to shape up for us...and so, in the great nature of mocking...here is my first three (dream) picks...plus where I hope the team drafts after:
1. Suh DT
2. Lupati OG
3. Earl Thomas/Reshad Jones S
4. DE
5. CB
6. RB
7. OL
All right, your turn, have at it.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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Suh is a no-brainer
Similar to CJ in 2007. I think he goes #1 regardless if it’s us or St. Louis picking #1. You don’t let a guy like that get away if he’s there. Thats my opinion but the only way we get Suh is if St. Louis wins some games.
I’ve always maintained I’m happy with Mo Morris and KSmith so I wouldn’t look at RB in the draft. I hope we draft nothing but OL, DL, DE and CB. That’s it. I don’t want any sexy picks this year.
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
I agree, the Rams will take Suh
Go to Turf Show Times and read some of the fanposts. The majority of Rams fans seem about as enamored of Suh as we are.
Here's the thing that I think everyone is missing
The fans do not decide what player is getting picked in the draft. If that was the case, we would have Aaron Curry. I know Spagnuolo is a defensive coach, but so is Schwartz, and look what we got in the draft.
Spags isn’t the be all end all of the draft. If the GM over there decides that they need a new face of their franchise, they will pick a QB. We can speculate and beg all we want for a player, but by the time the draft rolls around, players will have risen and fallen tremendously. I know its fun to consider stuff now, but honestly guys… we need to stop speaking in certainties. I’ve done it too, and its just going to create a mess.
Normally I would agree Nate
But I can’t see any GM passing on Suh. I really can’t. That kind of dominance as a DT is very rare – we haven’t seen it since Warren Sapp IMO. If there was a strong #1 QB in the draft I may be thinking otherwise but Clausen, Bradford, McCoy, TEbow??? Not one of them warrants a top 10 pick IMO.
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
by NYCLionsfan on Dec 21, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
but there are no premier QB’s in this draft. I don’t see a Staff or a Manning or a Rivers coming out this year. They’re all marginal IMO
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
I agree the QBs aren't top tier
But that isn’t what I’m saying. I know that everyone is enamored with Suh, and rightfully so. But you have no idea where the coach of the Rams puts his team, as far as where they need people, who would fit their schemes, etc etc.
My opinion is that by the time the combine hits, we’re going to be talking very differently. Remember when Andre Smith was pretty much neck in neck with Stafford for the #1 pick, according to the ‘draft experts’?
Don’t count your chickens before they hatch. That’s all I’m saying.
I agree with Nate
Fans don’t draft players. GM’s/Head Coaches do. The Rams fans are ignorant of the current economic situation in the NFL.
No premier QB’s this year? Funny, we were saying that about Staff last year when we (the fans who don’t draft) wanted Aaron Curry.
Meanwhile, some QB will likely impress/get hyped to the point that the Rams will think he’s the guy, or at the very least the guy most worth spending $80 million on. The only opinions that matter are those of the Rams GM, HC, and owner.
Good post, LL. I think you got the basics right on this one. The main thing I’d add is the big labor issue in the NFL these days……the lack of a rookie salary cap, and escalating rookie contracts, especially for top picks. It’s the 800-Lb gorilla nobody here is talking about. It was a MAJOR factor in why we drafted Stafford over Curry, and will, IMO, be a MAJOR factor in the Rams taking a QB over Suh.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
1 Brian Cushing HOU OLB 119
2 James Laurinaitis STL MLB 109
3 Louis Delmas DET FS 82
4 Jacob Lacey IND CB 74 60
5 Jerraud Powers IND CB 66
6 DeAndre Levy DET OLB 65
7 Derek Cox JAC CB 61
7 Aaron Curry SEA OLB 61
9 Rey Maualuga CIN OLB 58
10 Glover Quin HOU CB 57
Go Delmas!
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
by Hyperion Ecta on Dec 22, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Keep talking about the draft
It’s really all we have at this point. My post previously had more to do with saying that you’re sure things are going to go one way or another.
We have about 50% of the story when it comes to any of these players. The combine and news after the season will tell far more about where these guys are going than their play against collegiate teams.
You know what the absolutely hilarious part of this argument is?
That no-brainer #1 pick Calvin Johnson…went #2! After a QB! Did you forget that? The exact same scenario played out in our favor perfectly last time.
Yeah but that was with a real QB (at least at the time)
Everyone was in love with JaMarcus Russell and he was the clear #1 QB to go in that draft. Recall it was the Raiders that went with him and crazy Al Davis. There isn’t even a JaMarcus in this draft is my point.
As Nate says though (and I completely agree) a LOT can change btwn now and Indianapolis. I hope a QB comes out of nowhere and outshines even Suh. I really do and I really hope St. Louis wins a game and I really hope they pick up a QB #1. I just don’t think it happens as it stands today.
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
I would not be to sure NYC
It is well known Schwartz wanted Beanie if he was there at 33. Additionally, Smith may well have had a significant knee injury to the extent his time table is not known.
Morris is a capable backup, but if the Lions have to rely on him to any great extent…well, don’t expect last week, every week.
Brown is strictly a change of pace back and cannot take the pounding.
Good point about Beanie
your right Banner but I am pretty sure he will go Suh if he’s still around when we pick
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
Hopefully Hisotry Repeats Itself...
Cause the Raiders took JaMarcus Russell in 2007 and we took Calvin Johnson, with any luck, Rams will take a QB and we of course will take Ndamukong Suh. Ya buddy
I agree that we now have a really good chance to get Suh.
I would pick
1-Suh
2-Best DB if available
3-Best DE if available
4-OG
5-DB
5-wr
6-rb
7-qb backup
Just livin' the dream...
i like the 1st 5 picks rathe OG be sooner but i would be happy with that..
i dont like WR RB QB..
that is to young of a QB core they
we tock a RB in 6th last year so he would not help mch we need a RB in 1st or 2nd in 2011 to do what we need
same goes for WR one in the 5th wont help what we need him to do ones in the 5th would be slot or depth guys and we have that coverd need the num 2
+1
I like 1 – 5 but, as det32 states, no WR QB or RB. This team needs to fill too many “non-skilled” holes.
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
this is what i have been singing for a few now
Trade Sims for a 3rd (team like the saints eagles pats colts would love him maybe even a 2nd) I know some of you don’t like trading him but IMO I rather have a starting CB DL OL the a LB that could be starting sitting on the bench
1st Ndamukong Suh
2nd OG Mike Iupati
3rd DE C.J. Wilson
3rd (B from Sims) CB Devin McCourty
4th CB Akwasi Owusu-Ansah
5th OG Vladimir Ducasse
5th (B from broncos) S Josh Pinkard
6th DE James Ruffin
That's the draft I want
det32 has the right idea.
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
Det32 is a Rhodes Scholar going incognito
notice when he has serious info he is passionate about that he spells every word correctly? Even Ndamukong Suh? C/mon man.
Fess us Det32, this whole spelling thing is a ruse. :-)
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
let me ak you this..you seem to like drafting on the O side of the ball in your mocks
would you rather have the 3rd best O and the 30th best D
or
would you rather have the 15th best O and 15th best D
i rather have 15th for both i want teams to have to plane for both side of the ball not just our O
The only problem with this post.....
…..is that maybe the rams do need a qb but there is not one worthy of the 1st pick…….Suh is a no brainer…..Detroit will have to have the 1st pick to get Suh.
by BennieBladesFan on Dec 21, 2009 12:45 PM EST reply actions
few people thought Staff was a consensus #1 & look what happened
i agree it is too early by all accounts to speak in certainties…anything is possilbe. i think St Louis is in a very similar situation that the Lions were in last year draft wise. Many holes…many options. This will all become more clear as the combine comes & goes. Again, IMO, and IMO only, for the same reason we didn’t draft oline last year, the Rams will not pick Suh this year. Increadible talent to pass up on…but do you draft that talent just because its there a la Megatron (or where we thought we had talent)…or do you pick talent where you have deficiencies a la Stafford? I say Rams plug holes.
+10000000000000000000
You nailed it LL. By Draft Day, the Rams will think there is a #1 QB in this draft. So will the media. Just like with us and Stafford last year. The Rams Front Office opinion is the only one that matters. The Rams will go QB without a doubt.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
+100000000000000000
You nailed it Bennie. there is no #1 QB in this draft. Rams will go Suh without a doubt
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
I disagree with you guys. A consensus is not important here because it only matters what the Rams think.
Lets face it we just don’t know what the Rams management thinks. Everyone is still blinded by the glow of Suh’s last game. Sure he looks fantastic and the best DT anyone has seen for at least a decade, but once the hubub dies down and the all star games and combine and individual workouts and the scouts and coaches and GM of the Rams sit down to figure out what they need to move forward, they will look at a team that is averaging 11.4 points per game in 2009 and averaged 14.5 PPG in 2008 and 16.4 PPG in 2007. They will look at a QB who has a passer rating of around 70 for those three years and has some serious injury issues. They will also see no credible back up option unless they do something in the free agent market. Last year they took a Tackle at #2 and paid big bucks for their Center Jason Brown to lure him from the Ravens. They already have one of the best running backs in the NFL.
Seems to me like they are preparing to fix their QB problem in 2010.
I agree that Suh is the number one player in the draft, but that does not mean he is the number one player on St. Louis’ board.
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
you nailed it Northleft.
I would have added a 17th power if I could have.
:-)
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
You nailed it, Northleft!
There’s a lot of nailing going on in here…….(hides all the hammers)
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
on the contrary...
ive read this on POD somewhere not quite sure where to point for the +1 so i apologize but last year when McCoy and Bradford didnt come out, they were saying how much that hurt the lions because of how much more these guys talents were than staffords. Now a mere year later the quarterbacks arent elite anymore. Kind of fishy don’t you think… I hope these qbs display there “ELITE” skills at combine to help us out with Suh or maybe they will just be a flop, then we will be even more happy that we drafted Stafford
Yes, there were some gurus who ranked them higher than Stafford. Not many, but some.
Gyor, I am beyond caring what the other rookie or rookie to be QBs do. Whether it is Sanchez, Freeman, Bradford, or McCoy. I like what I have seen from Staff and think that Detroit finally has a QB who can win a game. Not a guy who manages games or just tries not to lose it.
by NorthLeft12 on Dec 22, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Suh is ours
If u think about it everybody was hyping Aaron Curry and as fans we said draft curry but schwartz knows that he needed to draft a QB to be the face of the franchise. A DT cannot be the face of the franchise and sell tickets know matter how good he is. A QB like Clausen or Bradford would be perfect for them and i truly think they will like one of them. The Lions probably could have traded down last year but didnt get any great offers so they stood still. Point is, the rams if they are at number one will not take Suh because if u think about it, they really need offense more than defense and the only way to win big is with a QB.
At this time last year...
What person was talking, Stafford #1? McCoy, Bradford, Tebo… what ever the flavor; St Louis needs a QB.
And not even necessarily a QB
No one seems to remember Mario Williams going #1… They are as bad as us, and need someone everywhere.
that's my point
there are only two position groups that actually have strength/talent…that being rb & dline. i don’t think they draft suh just because he’s there. they draft the talent that is there that fills holes. qb is just that.
all i know is if we are getting this fired up now…the next four months are gonna be great!
OK but a QB needs to step up btwn now and Indy
if St. Louis wants to go QB. Rigth now I don’t see a Top 10 QB let alone an overall #1.
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
Kiper and McShay
do they have any qb’s listed in the top 10 of their big board?
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
Not in top 10 but...
Have any of you guys seen that a lot of mocks have Ryan Mallett as like a top 15 pick? Now I’ll admit, I haven’t paid much attention to Arkansas this year but from what we all saw from him at UM is he really good enough to be a first round pick?
I checked with Kiper
and the answer is yes. In his newest Big Board (NOT to be confused with Mock draft – the Big Board is his ranking of BPA without respect to where they will be drafted) he has Clausen #4 and Bradford #5.
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
I know, it sucks, they all suck, all the mocks suck, all the draft sites suck, etc, etc, etc.
No matter what source we mention, somebody will say it sucks.
I’m going to lock myself in a dark closet and churn out mock drafts until April. Please feed me. Slip some pizzas under the door.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
GR, I think he means ESPN sucks because it is mostly insider stuff which you have to pay for.
I agree with timmy20, and boycott the ESPN site. It used to be a very useful site with some interesting stuff. Not anymore.
by NorthLeft12 on Dec 21, 2009 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
Not denying the ESPN site sucks, I agree
Just noting I and others have mentioned other sources in the past, and seen them “mocked”, so to speak.
Where’s my pizza?
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Here's a deal I found through Slickdeals.net
I am NOT a member of ESPN the Magazine or ESPN Insider yet, but looked into it after NorthLeft and Timmy’s comments and found a great deal. There are tons of posts on the slickdeals forum saying that it worked so it doesn’t look like a scam.
You get a year (26 issues) of ESPN the Mag for $8.99 and Insider is FREE for a year too. The 2 year deal is only $14.99. Both are less than half price. I will probably sign up as a stocking stuffer for myself.
Here’s the link: http://www.surplusmags.com/espn.html
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
EDIT - Better Deal
Only sign up for the one year on surplusmags. Then go to www.espn.com/thanks and renew for as many years as you want for $1 a year. Here’s the slickdeals link that talked about it: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1713259
The yearly mag/insider subscription costs around $40 for a year, and with this combined deal you can have 5 years of both for $13.99. That’s like 125+ magazines and 5 years of the Insider. It’s almost free. I am definitely doing it before the deal expires.
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
Here is a better deal....I don't pay a dime and find other free football sites on the internet.
Like http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ or http://profootballfocus.com/home.php or http://walterfootball.com/ or http://www.nfl.com/ or http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/?eref=sinav…. I think you get the idea.
ESPN is pretty arrogant to think that their content is so good that it is worth paying for. Not to me.
I do like Walterfootball
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
by Hyperion Ecta on Dec 22, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
I could see..
..the Rams taking Suh because he is just that dominate of a player and i dont see a QB in this draft that I would take #1. If i were the Rams i would take Suh first then y not get a QB like Tony Pike in the 2nd round. IMO i think Pike is just as good as all the other Qbs in the draft so if they could get a solid defender y not go with that the first pick
by LionsPistonsFan on Dec 21, 2009 3:32 PM EST reply actions
Exactly
That’s my line of thinking as well.. Others disagree and I hope they’re right and we are dead wrong.
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
I just want to say that everybody's sleeping
on the obvious fit between the Rams West Coast Offense and Jimmy Clausen.
If I were to guess
At this point, Clausen is the QB I see the Rams as most likely to take. But if ultimately not him, there are plenty of other flavors to choose from this year.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
i think a big thing is that yes there are a number of qb's this year
but outside of the top five or six…there is a huge drop off. i think you see a run…clausen goes #1…then it all picks up with wash/cleve/car and possibly the raiders…initially i thought maybe even bradford…we shall see…lets hope they have a great senior bowl too…don’t need another graham herrell flop
I found a guy who agrees with me about Clausen going #1
So of course, he’s a genius, lol.
http://www.draftboardinsider.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?action=display&id=181&title=Clausen%20to%20the%20draft%2C%20the%20implications
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Who knows what each team will do
Rams may or may not pick Suh, depends on them, I’m not going to try and predict what they do….I have enough trouble predicting what we will do, and I have a far greater knowledge of the team. Hell, last year we picked Grew and I was sure we’d have either Oher or Maualuga.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
this was posted on another forum i read but is vary intresting
Projected NFL draft order*
Team (record) Opponents record
1. St. Louis (1-13) 119-104 (.534)
2. Detroit (2-12) 115-108 (.516)
3. Tampa Bay (2-12) 124-98 (.559)
4. Cleveland (3-13) 114-110 (.509)
5. Kansas City (3-13) 117-105 (.527)
- pending Monday’s N.Y. Giants-Washington game; first tiebreaker between teams with the same record is opponents winning percentage
so basicly we could still get 1st pick i want suh but i dono if i want 1st pick..
suh
i will take him anyway i can get him. if we get the first pick we dont have to worry about tampa trading up to get him. SUH!
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