Just thinking out loud.....
by Gyorick on Dec 21, 2009 3:58 PM EST
47 comments
How about we look at Gunthers old team and see what we could do as far as a trade. Obviously we want Mr. Dorsey and maybe a CB (Carr since they prolly wont give up flowers but would definately try for flowers). I think they would be willing to get rid of Dorsey because of their scheme and i dont think dorsey fits there 3-4 scheme, he hasnt played to his potential, i think, under the 3-4. We could give up avril and sims. Then this is were it gets a little shady cause obviously we need to sweeten the pot for this trade to go through. We could throw in one of our washed up offensive lineman. (peterman, ramirez, cook come to mind). if that wouldnt work we maybe could throw in a S or CB (Henry since we dont use him for some reason Manuel or Simpson). Chiefs might be picking 3rd or 4th so flip flopping picks in a round wont really make a difference and i dont think we should just give a pick away cause we obviously need some guys. We do however have an extra 5th we could give them for a sixth.
I could possibly be just reaching for to much maybe we just need Dorsey and we could just give up Avril and Sims and 5th for Dorsey and 3 or 4 round pick. I mean sims is RD 1 pick, Avril RD 3 pick, and 5th Rd Pick for a 1 and 3 seems fair.
In closing, with us have having a decent chance to get Suh, if we got Dorsey at DE, Hill in the middle, then we have ??? at other DE but i do like Devries even though he got hurt early in the year. I also think that there is a chance that Schwartz might be able to lure Kearse or Van De Bosch out of tennessee in the off season. With the D line like that then our linebackers are alright we got Delmas, Buchanon, James and Bullocks or whoever u wanna stick in at the other Safety. with the front seven looking like that i think it will help our corners out 500% they will look respectable to say the least. I think James would really come on because he wouldnt have to gaurd a guy for 8-10 seconds he is a little questionable on the deep ball but i think he would really come around with a decent D line putting pressure on QB. Our d would be greatly improved i believe and we would still have 7 picks which could focus on some offensive lineman and possibly d lineman, we could even could get diamond in rough CB in 3rd round pick.
Definately take a look at #2 receiver. I think running back can wait for sure, kevin smith definately got outshined by Morris in one game so we could definately get by one more year with out drafting a running back (i see the broncos in my head with that comment seems like that could make anyone look good at RB), i dont want any flashy sexy picks for the offense i want big dirty bastard picks for offense.
This is just something i have been pondering and had just had to throw it out to the great people here at POD. Chew on it and let me know what you think. I mean there is hundreds of ways you could get these trades done let me know what would be reasonable with you. or if you are slightly interested in dorsey i mean gunther did draft him while he was in K.C.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
0 recs |
47 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
I like your train of thought
Trading for Dorsey (not sure how he did this season in KC) would be a good idea. If we were to trade Sims for anything, I’d be ok with it being involved with this. Sims + Avril = Dorsey and a pick would be fine with me.
not by much if any...
i mean James Harrison 6 ft does fine in the 3-4… your right though he is a little short but quite frankly im a little sick of seeing him over pursue 90% plays and get washed right out of position. He did play helluva game yesterday and he does pack a punch but i think that he still doesnt understand that you got to do your job not everyones job. There just trust you got to have in your team that they will get it done just like they trust that you will do your job. Everyone talks about developing bad habits check this guy out
Not trying to rag on y ou guys but...
I thought the actual word would be corps not core. I’m just trying to help out not make an ass out of anybody.
Dorsey has been marginal at best right?
and he has a $51 million contract with 3 years left. Why would we want that?
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
the one i thing i hadnt looked at yet...
I hadnt had a chance to crunch the numbers just rollin it around in my head… but my grandpa always said got to spend money to make money. You also have to remember that these contracts are also pumped up with incentives and i believe that 15-20 million of dorsey’s contract is incentives. 20-25 million guaranteed, so around 14 million a year prolly. Still a little steep but come on are we really in the position to be real picky, i dont think that this deal is gonna make or break us. We also have around 20 million freeing up with free agents i mean we will prolly have some of those guys back but we can renegotiate those contracts.
$22 million of that
was signing bonus that the Chefs would be responsible for. Not that bad of a contract for the Lions, but why give up that much for a player they need to be rid of?
by Russ Aronson on Dec 21, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Ya...
Im not quite sure what your saying in the last half of your comment but the way i understand it is that were giving up to much for a guy that you think the Chiefs are trying to get rid off. Believe me if they wanted to trade straight up Avril for Dorsey i would do that in a heartbeat. I just think were gonna have to sweetin the pot a little bit. Maybe Im off base wanting him to begin with i just want some changes.
If Gunther wanted him...
rumor has it that he was available before the trade deadline. If Gun thought he was the Bees Knees, he probably would have taken a run at him.
On the 2nd thought, we don’t really know that he didn’t either. Sorry, I am babbling.
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
The first part has to do with his contract
His deal was 5yrs. $33 million, $22 million guaranteed. The contract is worth about $6.6 million per year. The $22 million of signing bonus has already been paid but the Chiefs spread that over the 5 years of the deal adding $4.4 million to his cap value. So he costs the Chiefs about $11 million per year to their cap although he is only paid $6.6 million. When you trade a player the remaining signing bonus counts against your cap. That is why he was untradeable last year and would have cost the Chiefs like $13 million to their cap. To trade him this offseason it would still cost the Chiefs $9 million against their cap. However if 2010 is uncapped, this does not matter and every player in the league with a huge contract and sub-standard play is in danger of being cut or traded. If KC is that unhappy with Dorsey many teams will assume that he may be cut and choose to get him in free agency rather than giving up players or picks. So yeah I would not be in a hurry to give Avril or Sims, maybe a mid-round pick in exchange for getting that contract off KC’s books.
by Russ Aronson on Dec 22, 2009 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
+1
And Gunther didn’t draft Dorsey. It was Herm Edwards and the Chiefs GM at the time (Carl Peterson?)
In fact, it wasn’t even Gunther’s defense, really. It was Herm Edwards’ defense…..the one he wanted Gunther to run, not the same defense Gunther had earlier when he was DC and HC.
Gunther doesn’t want Herm’s players…..especially overpriced, undersized, one-trick-pony undertackles like Dorsey with bad knees. If we wanted to waste our money like that, we’d draft Gerald McCoy and wait for his knees to break.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
That's why your a POD WiseGuy!
Great POINTS! I had forgotten and overlooked that Gun’s hands were tied with a system and defense he did not want to run.
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
I think the point
Is that Dorsey was moved into a defensive scheme he wasn’t familiar/suited for.
Ideally, Gunther would be able to work him into a solid player in his system.
you like him for us Nate?
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
Yeah
I can’t recall 100%, but I’m pretty sure Gunther was all about him, for the 4-3. With his experience at DT, and now DE, he’s probably a relatively versatile Dlineman, and could fit into the rotation very well. Couple that with possibly drafting Suh, and picking up another guy via FA (Think Kampman or Kearse or something) and our D-line, in my opinion, would be very good.
thats what ive been thinking
I think we would be really onto something with a line like that and then the draft would be way different because we could be really confident in what were looking for. That line makes the back 7 look quite a bit better
I don't know
I would leave that up to Schwartz to determine how he thinks Dorsey would fit into a 4-3 scheme. Clearly Dorsey has not lived up to potential and, if we think we could get that out of him then I am all for it.
I don;t know if I like the trading of Sims though. I’m on the fence with that one. I also think Peterman is still a solid guard and would hold on to him (besides I think he’s under contract)
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
Not a fan of Petertears at all
I know everyone was emotion about our first win, but Peterman was only here for one year. I don’t want my starting RG bawling about something he hasn’t really had to deal with.
:p
LOL
Petertears…………..that was good
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
by NYCLionsfan on Dec 22, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Peterman reminded me of the...
revolving doors at the silverdown…. only worse… because if Peterman WAS a revolving door at the silver dome, the roof would cave due to lack of pressure containment.
Interesting idea
Dorsey hasn’t lived up to his billing yet, but maybe with us he would, you never know. However, I don’t know if that’s on their minds at the moment.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
i agree
mostly i think he is underachieving because of the scheme and schwartzy can put a fire in some aces. Plus if we get Suh or Mccoy thats gonna open up everything for everyone.
NO NO NO
i dont want to trade anybody on our team that has talent, were already short on talent, if we do any trading it should be player for player strait up like the redding and Peterson trade last year. If anything i would like to see us go after a top tier reciver, like Boldin. Stafford needs a WR that can catch.
ya i understand that
but what its weird to say that we have wasted talent per say because we are looking good with peterson, foote and levy. Or do you think we can hold on to sims until levy can take over the middle. I dont think sims will be real happy just sittin on the pine though. better off just getting rid of him and get something for him while we can.
I hope you aren't serious about Boldin
Because for one, it won’t happen. Boldin is trying to get AWAY from a team with a #1 reciever who’s better than him. Secondly, what we would have to give up to get him would be stupid.
speaking of receivers Nate...
what gives with Standeford. In 2008 preseason, he caught literally everything in his vacinity. I thought he was a stud, and would give us that across the middle guy we needed.
Now we have a bunch of receivers with the dropsies, and he can’t even make the team? Can he play in this league?
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
im sure this has been brought up but...
What are our feelings on Matt Jones, I mean obviously he likes drugs and alcohol but atleast he could catch bryant johnson and Dennis Northcutt have almost drove me to passing out in my 2003 Mercedes with it in drive at a stop light. He was decent if you could keep him clean. Does he want to play in the NFL still??? Cant we give him a low salary contract with incentives based on how good his behavior is. Would be nice to see him clean himself up and help us out, i guess we could take a look at him after we see how we do in FA.
How many strikes
does he have with the league? I’m pretty sure he is due a big suspension from the league when/if he returns.
by Russ Aronson on Dec 22, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
I went to some games last year
And was impressed with Standeford. He took the opportunities given to him and made something out of them. I didn’t see him as anything but an emergency receiever though. Players can be deceptive on a team so talent deficient that they lose every single game they play in. He did alright, but I wouldn’t place him above 4th on our depth chart even now.
Why? Why? Why?
Why does half the people here feel like the need to trade away talent? Why are we trading starters for prospects and players that have not done anything yet? The biggest problem the Lions have is lack of talent.
This is not Madden. Where you dont have to substitute players in and out. Where’s the long term lookout?
Fact is, Foote is a FA at the end of this year. Whether he signs or not. I dont know. And nor does everyone else. JP is a free agent in 2011. So we trade a starting LB. Now the LB core could possibly be Levy and Dizon. Now the Lions have to draft more unproven talent to make up for what has left or been traded away.
This does not seem to be a good blueprint for future success. When we rely on trades and FA pick ups. Isn’t that what Millen was all about?
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
good post
I think JP is a FA in 2013 though.
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
your right...my bad..JP is a FA in 2013.
JP is a FA in 2013.
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
I agree to an extent
But you have to infuse this team with talent somehow. The draft is where the foundation is laid, but you don’t build a house, and stop once the foundation is laid. While you do that, you need to run wire, plumbing, and prepare the house for the frame that’s going to be laid on top of that. Some people are from prior regimes, who don’t fit the scheme. It is better to get value for those people (whoever they may be) then hold on to players who will underperform in a new situation.
This isn’t Madden, where you can put a player in any system, offensive or defensive, and they perform the same. A new coaching staff is a huge change for many of these players, and some just won’t get it. You have to constantly be shuffling the players on this team in order to find the right group. We don’t advocate trading talent. If you think anyone aside from the top 5 or so players on this team are truly “talented”, I would like a hit of what you’re smoking.
My can’t-give-away-players:
Staff
Megatron
Delmas
Pettigrew
Foote
I mean, run through every player on our depth chart and tell me if the chips are down, is it really going to matter if we keep that guy? No. That doesn’t mean we have a fire sale and get rid of everyone who ever contributed, but you need to realize how badly this team needs playmakers. The guys on the squad to date have not gotten it done. Schwartz should be telling just about everyone their heads are on the chopping block, and going from there.
+1000
For some reason WCF doesnt like throwin down the money for the Big Name Free Agents. Staying with the house building analogy, you dont have the money to put a nice tin roof on your house right from the beginning so you go with the old tar and shingles to keep the rain out until that good deal for the perfect roof comes your way.
WCF will die in 2010.
Just a prediction.
The guy is like 100years old.
The Lions will then win the SB in 2011 as tribute to the excellent ownership of WCF.
hahaha
that’s funny. I think Bill takes over eventually though. Sigh…………….
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
I like all these house building analogies
Good work fellas. Also, Thos 5 untradable players you put down Nate seems about right, I can’t really think of another player on our roster who I would not give away for a decent price. That doesn’t mean there isn’t potential though.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
by Hyperion Ecta on Dec 22, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
