Offseason and Draft 1.0 Abbreviated
by LIONS76 on Dec 6, 2009 1:51 PM EST
42 comments
1) Suh or McCoy - I am praying we draft Suh.
2) Graham - DE Michigan (if he's available)other possibilities Jason Pierre-Paul DE USF
3) Gerhart RB Stanford or Dwyer RB Georgia Tech
4)Best CB or OL available
5) see #4
6) see # 5
7) see #6
FA's
Reggie Bush - Playmaker
David Baas - big body to help protect Stafford.
Edwards DE - good pass rusher
Vanden Bosh DL - added depth or possibly a starter
Trade
Trade for Shaun Rodgers DL - Big Baby wants to come back
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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Latest we go Oline
Would be the 3rd round.
by BennieBladesFan on Dec 6, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
Why would we want Rodgers after using a 1st pick on the DT position?
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
yeah...I know his name is spelled "Rogers"
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
I don't care - as long as we draft nothing but OL and DL
The bigger the better.
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
What do you like to do Rbanner???
What r u into?? The Apple has it all
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me vs. Bears fans
I was looking for
a restaurant suggestion. Maybe some sights of old NY, as I like history.
Maybe a place to listen to good music.
I just wanted an NY perspective.
Thanks.
rbanner
i dont know if its open all year round but on the west side, i believe, they opened up a new park, right before i left for school, on an old above ground subway line, dont know what its called. Chelsea Piers and Waterstreet are always nice places to visit. Central Park West if the weather permits.
Unfortunately, I agree with you BBF
Tampa is a lock to take Suh. Cleveland is probably better than 50%, lets say 66% to take him. And St. Louis is probably around 50% likely to pick him.
The Lions need to be at #2 at the latest behind St. Louis or Cleveland and hope like hell that a QB really distinguishes himself in the combine and interviews.
LIONS76, Your list of FAs is wishful thinking. That is just not the Lions way. I don’t get the love for Baas. I know he is a Michigan guy but he plays on one of the worst O lines in the NFL, and is ranked as the 58th best Guard on ProFootballFocus. Just ahead of Loper and Ramirez.
We need to draft a Guard by the third round [Iupati or Mike Johnson]. The Lions will go BPA and will no doubt surprise [piss off] us “draft experts” with their selections.
I think an RB in the third is a strong possibility. Could also be a WR by then.
I may be in the minority here but I think Gerald McCoy will be a good consolation prize.
There may be a chance to trade out of this pick, slim, but again it depends on how desperate teams behind us are for one of the top flight QBs. The smaller the number of high pick worthy QBs there are, the more likely we get an offer for our pick.
Trading down is the best option in my opinion………as long as we get fair value for our pick. If not, forget it. Fair value to me is a top ten first round pick and their second round pick in the 2010 draft. Minimum.
Youve been talking about him for awhile
But man DT’s bust so often, I get nervous when one is considered first round talent. Suh, is a rare talent I would rather the Lions took Okung is Suh is no longer there. I understand the BPA, but I would also like the closest player to a sure thing.
Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain. Lily Tomlin
LL I am of the opinion that Okung will not significantly help us.
It does not make a lot of sense to me to get a player that high in the draft for a position of relative strength. If Okung could play Guard first, then move to LT in a couple of years then maybe yes. I don’t see Backus as a liability or much of an asset at Guard. I don’t think Okung is a Guard type of player. Iupati or Mike Johnson makes more sense to me…..just not at the #4 pick. In the second round yes.
There have been numerous OT busts over the last ten years or so too. It is critical to have good evaluators of talent. I think Mayhew and Schwartz have a pretty good feel for who can play…..based on the 2009 draft. We will see.
Have some a lot of faith LL!
Terrence Cody better IMO
Dude is a beast (6-5, 365 lbs). McCoy is a solid DT, but he lacks the size to Cunningham’s style of defense. If we had to take someone at our pick and Suh wasnt available, I would go with Okung.
The beginning of the end of the misery
Now we're talking sense........
One of the reasons I haven’t posted a mock draft (only did a quick Lions nameless “postion-by-round” kinda thing) is I prefer to tackle each postion one at a time and list players who fit our style. Also, I’ve seen a lot of mocks so far that have us taking players who don’t fit our style. Different players have different skills. We need players who fit our team and what we’re trying to do (no zone-blocking OL, no big slow SS, no small pass-rushing UT, no zone-defense CB). We also don’t need more players at a position where we already have good players (no more speed HB’s as long as we have Aaron Brown, and don’t pick a QB at #4, duh).
Northleft and latif are on the right track. Iupati and Mike Johnson are both strong guards who would be an excellent fit in our downhill power blocking scheme. Terrence Cody would be fantastic as a DT next to Sammie Lee Hill in the GIANT DT (“Big Daddy/Big Baby”) scheme that Gunther wants. Okung could fit at LT, but maybe not at guard (same goes for Backus at guard). Suh is strong enough to fit at DT, but McCoy is not.
Bottom line, the Lions are not going to get players that don’t fit here, and are not going to get players to fill holes that are already filled to their liking. BPA at a position where we have a hole……..BPA that fits our system.
So forget about Gerald McCoy. Not gonna happen. Forget about Darren Sproles. Forget about Willie Parker. Forget about Reggie Bush. We’re spinning our wheels here. None of those 4 will be a Detroit Lion next year, no matter what the price. I guarantee it.
Best thing we can do is focus on finding players we still needwho can fit the system here.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
I get nervous when I hear about a "system".
The only system I want is one that results in good players being drafted and wins.
The players that fit here are ones that can make plays on the football field. I like Schwartz because of his flexibility, and ability to use the players he has to their best advantage.
Good players are good at different things
Some are better at some of those things than others. Pick the good players who are best at the things we need. That’s why it’s a team, and not just a collection of good players.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
A good example would be running backs
Say we had 3 running backs on the roster. All 3 are Aaron Brown. They are all fast. Who do you use on a goal-line run up the middle? What? They can’t do that? But they’re all good players!!! LOL Don’t you wish now you also had a big goal-line back? That’s a system. That’s a team. Each player has a strength, and you use them appropriately when you need that strength.
Another example would be pass coverage. In a zone coverage system like the Tampa 2, the corners don’t have to be as fast as in a man defense when they’re out there on an island, but the linebackers have to be faster and better at pass coverage to help out. The skill set needed for one position group is interconnected with the skill set of another position group, depending on your playbook and defensive philosophy. That’s a system. That’s a team. You can’t just throw in parts willy nilly and expect it to work. You need good players, but they have to be good players with the appropriate skills. Must work well with others.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Then why do you want two starting DTs who are immoveable objects?
That will not get us a pass rush from the inside. Yes we need complementary players, and we need players on defence who can mostly play all three downs. We do not have the depth to have a two down DT or a two down MLB. Unfortunately for the Detroit defence, teams throw on all downs against us. How do two DTs that take up space help us there?
Please, lets forget about the dreaded Tampa 2. The success of the Tampa 2 at Tampa or Indianapolis was all about a great pass rush. Without that it completely falls apart. We don’t have a pass rush, therefore whatever coverage system we try is bound to fail. That is what McCoy offers as opposed to most other DTs.
Our system is the 4-3. A second huge DT, a nose tackle, does not fit into that system. Look at Minnesota, the Giants, the Bears, the Eagles, the Bengals, the Seahawks, the Rams, the Raiders, the Panthers, the Redskins, the Colts, and the Texans. They all play a 4-3 and have at least one starting DT who is around 300 pounds. The other guy may or may not be in the 325 plus range.
Are we reinventing the wheel here?
the way we run our defense
the ideal cunningham defense requires two massive DTs with great pass rushers. think about who we have starting right now: sammie hill and grady jackson…two massive guys. we could have kept darby, who is a better, more experienced DT then both hill and jackson, but we didnt because he doesnt fit the system. its nice to have pass rush from your DTs, but just b/c a guy had good rush skills in college under a different defense doesnt mean it will translate to pass rush under the lions system. case in point, Glen Dorsey. You wanna talk about dominant, pass rushing DTs in the college level, he was one of the best, but he couldnt do jack when he was in KC because he didn’t fit the system. McCoy should end up being a good player, but it wont be in Detroit
The beginning of the end of the misery
Mount Cody was taking oxygen in the first half against Florida.
I do not want that guy at all. Even if he was there in the second round when we pick.
d-lineman often take oxygen in games
especially big games like the one he was playing in, especially when they play hard and dominate like he did.
The beginning of the end of the misery
Funny, when Shaun Rogers did it here people jumped all over him and said he was out of shape.
Bottom line for me is that Cody is a two down DT who will only take 25 to 30 snaps a game. No thanks.
Sounds like Albert Haynesworth
You’d pass on him too? I wouldn’t. Lots of great DT’s only play 2 downs. I’d rather have a DT that plays great for 2 downs than one who plays crappy for 3. We’ve already got guys like that.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
And like KDawg said.....
When Cody was in there, he dominated Florida’s O-line. He played great for 2 downs. I’ll take that for a dollar.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
I watched that game and did not see that.
The whole Alabama D line did well and they also blitzed a fair bit. Cody is a 3-4 NT player. That does not seem to be a fit here in Detroit.
But I understand where you are coming from and have heard the same from Gunther so I guess we will see in April.
Lets hope we have a free path to Suh [no I don’t want the #1 pick] so we can avoid all this arguing in the spring.
Agreed
After seeing Suh play, I would prefer Suh.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
I don't like Cody OR McCoy
If we can’t get Suh, I want Marvin Austin. However, Cody DID create MAJOR havoc against the Gators even if he didn’t get a ton of sacks. He was constantly drawing double teams and allowing his teammates to be in one on one matchups. He looks stronger and way bigger than McCoy even though McCoy plays in a 4-3 and Cody in a 3-4. Too many people are caught up in the difference between the 4-3 and the 3-4 when it comes to DTs though….but honestly it is pretty much the same thing for a NT to play DT….they still draw a double team and the primary difference is where they line up.
McCoy would need time to bulk up AND gain strength before he would make any kind of impact in Detroit. Cody has the size and the strength to split double teams and draw them on a consistent basis. If I were choosing between the two, I would take Cody over McCoy even if he is solely a two down player. In addition, I think Cody can be had in round 2 whereas the media hype looks to have McCoy going in the top half of round 1.
There is no comparison between Haynesworth and Cody. Please, don't even try it.
Haynesworth is a very athletic big man, who has great agility and quickness. He is not just a big slug. Shaun Rogers is the same kind of DT as Haynesworth. Amazing speed and movement for a guy who is over 340 pounds. Not many guys like that around.
Meh to Reggie Bush
Aaron Brown can be just as good.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
I agree HE
Bush is productive because he plays on a team that has the best offence in the NFL, one of the top QBs, a very, very good O line, and shares the load with two other RBs who are both doing very well. I would pass and look for a bigger back [Dixon of Miss. State?].
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