Mocking The Mockers
Before I even start this opinion post, let me throw in a quick disclaimer to keep the wolves at bay:
This article is written with all due respect for those who have posted mock drafts on this site and elsewhere. My comments are targeting the Mel Kipers of the world and those making a living off predicting draft orders, not the casual fan having fun predicting the draft.
Okay, with that out of the way, I’ll start with a basic fact... mock drafts are fun to create, read and debate. Most of us that visit this site, at one time or another, have conjured up some sort of mock draft – whether it be just for the Lions picks or a complete team-by-team breakdown of every round. I’ve tried my hand at it several times… terribly, I might add. But where does my information come from? Do I really watch enough college ball and know enough about talent evaluation to try to predict the order in which teams will draft players? Absolutely not. Do any of us? I highly doubt it. If you think you might have the skill, knowledge and know-how, think about this: If sportswriters didn’t exist and there was no internet or sports-talk radio… could you, simply by watching college games, scout enough teams and enough players to create an accurate mock draft? If you’re honest, I think the answer would be no. NFL teams have people that scout college talent year-round and still get it wrong. It’s a tough gig and not anywhere near an exact science.
Now please don’t think that I’m insulting your acumen here. I read the comments daily and there are a lot of football savvy fans that post intelligent thoughts on this site. But the fact remains that we primarily get our information from the myriad of draftniks that come crawling out of the woodwork this time of year. Most of which have as little talent evaluation skill as the rest of us. Our information surely doesn’t come from NFL personnel, who are keeping (or should be keeping) their information on potential picks very close to the vest. So in late December, the first of the billion or so mocks start to trickle out onto the net. Thus, we begin to form our opinions of which players are worthy of what picks and the heated debates begin.
Then comes the actual draft and it all goes out the window. Players that the “experts” deem top candidates slide and commentators are “shocked” at what is transpiring. Then there are the teams who are “reaching” for players that are deemed later-round picks and the “experts” chastise the teams by grading them with an “F” five seconds after the draft concludes. Doesn’t this all seem a bit silly? Especially when you got guys like Mel Kiper talking about can’t-miss prospects like Mike Williams and why it is such a jaw-dropper that he fell to number 10. Kiper said he was the best talent in the draft! I can’t imagine where he would have fallen to if Millen hadn’t been such an idiot and made the worst pick in franchise history. So that begs the question: What credentials do Mel Kiper, Todd McShay and others have that qualify them to be such experts? Doing something year after year doesn’t make one an expert. If these guys are so great, why has no team tapped them for positions in their scouting departments? If I should listen to anyone at all, it should be the former scouts or general managers that have had draft success with a professional program. But you know what? I fall into the same trap as everyone else, scouring the net and the sports channels looking for information as to who the Lions are going to draft and joining in the fun of mocking. So I too have a hand in passing on all the misinformation that goes along with predicting the draft.
Here is where Kiper ranked the following players in one of his first early mocks last year:
#1 - QB, Brian Brohm
#5 - WR, Early Doucet
#6 - QB, Andre Woodson
#7 - T, Gosder Cherilus
#8 - DT, Frank Okam
#10 - LB, Dan Connor
Okay, I could go on, but you get the picture… and this was only his top ten. He had Chris Long ranked number 18. By draft day, of course, he had reshuffled his draft to more closely resemble what took place last April. But prior to the combine and pro days, he did no better than what the average fan could do. So why come out and post such drivel several months before the draft? Because it’s his career, that’s why. Why is it his career? I have absolutely no freakin’ idea. Obviously, we all have a hand in paying Kiper’s salary because we subscribe to this “mockery” due to our insatiable appetite for all things football. And once the Super Bowl is over, it’s all things draft. For Lions fans, by late November, it’s all things draft. I guess we kind of ask for it.
These “famous mockers”, in more of a hard-line stance, actually mock the hard work that NFL scouts put in. How so? Well, they get fans caught up in who they think the “good” players are based on these misinforming mock drafts. Then when a team drafts a player, that through excessive scouting they’ve deemed the best fit for their team, the fans have an ill-formed opinion and then jeer the pick. Sometimes the opposite can apply. The fan thinks the team picked a great player based on popular mocks, creating an unfair expectation of that player, which in turn generates a perfect environment for a player to bust. This is unfair to the team, the fans and the players. The problem is, these “analysts” are nothing more than glorified college fans and don’t understand the pro game very well. The single largest factor in a draft choice succeeding is the transition from the college game to the pro game and this is very hard to judge. Like I stated earlier, even the best of pro scouts have a problem efficiently predicting how well players translate to the NFL. Kiper and his cohorts are just taking a glorified stab in the dark with their early mocks and then conforming to everyone else’s by the time the draft takes place. Sure there are a few talented guys out there that put good mocks out early, but most are of the cookie cutter type. Personally, I like Mike Mayock on the NFL network.
All in all, mock drafts within the fan ranks are harmless, good fun. As for the Kipers out there, I’m sure that the pro scouts don’t pay much attention to “The Hair” or any of the other “pro mockers” out there. It does make me a bit crazy that these guys are making good money on crackpot predictions three and four months before the draft. It makes me even more crazy that they sit on national television during the draft grading teams and picks like they know for sure who is and isn’t a good choice. They have no better crystal ball for this than the educated fan out there.
Anyway, have fun with the mocks guys as I enjoy them too. Feel free to share your thoughts about this as well.
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I like Mock Drafts
But I really put much thought into them. I posted a Lions mock on this site a week or so ago but that was more of what I hoped to happen than what I thought would actually transpire.
I don’t know a hell of a lot about Kiper so I can’t say too much about him but I do like Mayock and Davis from NFL Network and I also like to check out Scott Wright who runs a draft website. I find him to be quite intelligent with his picks and knowledgeable in what makes a NFL prospect. But, as you said, scouting is a imprecise process.
Lastly, I’ve really enjoyed the posts and topics you’ve come up with recently, keep up the good work.
Talking heads on TV will always be paid to talk
DrewsLions is exactly right. “Experts” are people who can recite a ton of information, which may or may not be accurate, but they seem knowledgeable, and do well in front of a camera, so we listen to them.
Would a TV analyst honestly deserve to run a real NFL team and make real draft picks? Probably not (though sadly it’s happened).
Mel Kiper
I’ll be honest, I want his job. How great is it that he can be so wrong so often and still be looked to for an opinion. He’s like the William Kristol of the NFL draft. And it’s not just his mock drafts in comparison to what really happens, but in regards to his rankings and analysis of players in general.
It’s awesome. I want his job or maybe to run a huge bank into the ground with a golden parachute. Is there a special place to sign up for these jobs? Did I miss the day in school where the teachers talked about this?
Right on the button
Kiper really doesn’t know his hair from his butt. He’s never played, coached or worked for a football team in any capacity. Same goes for most of the “mockers” out there. It’s all fun and games and people who aren’t in the know are making a fortune playing a guessing game. The teams know what they’re doing and, for the most part, don’t let on to who they’re thinking about taking.
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." ~Groucho Marx
Actually, he turned down an offer from Bill Polian to join his scouting staff in like 1982. He preferred doing his own thing—which, frankly, was probably a smart move. Kiper might or might not be a gifted talent evaluator, but nobody can argue that he doesn’t put the time in. Dude individually scouts every player on tape and/or in action when he can—and moreover, from everything I’ve heard, dude has an encyclopedic memory, he can recite all the sizes, stats, etc. for each player going back years and years.
Frankly, what I think all the Kiper hate boils down to is the fact that this is a lot more art than science, more so than anyone who burns hours and money following it would like to admit. Fans would love to believe that he’s a stooge who doesn’t know what he’s talking about because he hasn’t played or been employed by a front office—but as the Lions have shown us, playing, coaching, broadcasting, or being employed by a front office doesn’t mean you don’t get it wrong as often as you get it right, either.
Peace
Ty
http://thelionsinwinter.blogspot.com
by ty@thelionsinwinter on Feb 6, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
I expect more from you, Ty :)
I can’t believe that you are standing up for Kiper here. I’m sure he puts time in, but memorizing stats and measureables does NOT make you a good talent evaluator. I can remember a few phone numbers, does that make me an accountant? (Actually, I AM an accountant… so I guess that’s a bad example!) The guy has never played the game, nor does he have any NFL experience – regardless of whether he turned down offers or not.
I don’t judge him by all of his ‘ridiculosity’… I judge him by the end product. This means his poor early mocks that he puts out that don’t ending up being close to what happens in April. Then, of course, he abandons those players that he spent so much time “scouting” to conform to the rest of his cronies. Then, worst of all, he sits on his high horse during the draft and tells professional football organizations whether or not they’ve made a good pick… without ever seeing the player suit up and play for that team. The teams don’t even know if they’ve made a good pick yet. They hope so, but don’t really know for sure. It’s just all so ridiculous. I can’t believe that fans with a good understanding of the game don’t see this.
Well, as I maybe wasn’t saying clearly enough, what happens in April is the result of what might be the world’s most expensive poker game. You have 32 franchises with different power structures, men atop those structures, scouting departments below, on- and off-field philosophies, etc. And then, they all have access to information that no talking head or rabid fan could ever have. Medical records, psyche profiles, game film—hell, at the combine they sit down with prospects in a locked room an interview them—which probably tells you more in ten minutes than watching 100 hours of film does.
Moreover, the franchises themselves differ wildly between each other. For all we know, Mel Kiper’s big board exactly matches, say, Carolina’s, but the 31 other boards are all wildly different. Then the way teams take names off the boards differ too, from “highest name available” to strict need drafting. Basically, the only real way to get a mock “right” is to do this huge groupthink funneling thing . . . months of everyone reading each other’s mocks and upating and reviewing and changing and critiquing, over and over and over. Then, two weeks beforehand, STOP! Because everything that comes out of any of the teams in the two weeks before the draft is BS anyway. Then mix in a little last-second rumor and educated guess, and leave the rest up to luck. That’s how you get a mock draft “right”.
Therefore, you can’t grade Kiper’s talent evaluation based on whether his mocks are “right” in April. If you broke into a random NFL team’s war room the night before the draft, you’d find that some guys are are way higher than you thought, some way lower, and many are missing entirely. Kiper can’t say “Pac-Man Jones is a chump, he’s off my board”, but it was widely reported that Jones was in fact taken off the boards of many teams. The only way Kiper’s boards can be evaluated is by putting them in the war room of an NFL team, and then putting those players on the field.
Peace
Ty
http://thelionsinwinter.blogspot.com
by ty@thelionsinwinter on Feb 6, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Ummm... okay.
I’m not sure if you’re agreeing with me here or offering up a completely different train of thought. I understand the chess match theory with the NFL teams that takes place behind the scenes. Everybody’s board looks a little different, even on draft day. I get all of that. I even get how the mockers end up with how their boards look by draft day.
But the problem here is that a LOT of the guys that Kiper et al salivate over each year are some of the biggest busts. Everyone forward-thinks when it comes to the draft. Look back at what these guys say the year before and then you’ll get a true sense of the “talent” these “analysts” possess. What I also hate, is that these guys make a living trying to predict the draft, which is pointless and never holds true. Especially these early mocks that just end up being so off base. Why post a “professional” mock draft before the combine, pro days and free agency? Who is going to possibly get it right at this time of year? No one, that’s who. Yet these jokers get paid year round to come up with this stuff.
I’m probably more irritated than I should be about this, but when a topic gets me riled up, I can’t help it.
+1000
Exactly. The only thing us bloggers can really do is to evaluate review what scouts say about the top players or players they believe might be available when your team selects. Anything after the first round is a WAG anyway and usually, it’s also true for the first round. Kiper, as far as I’m concerned, has no real credentials to tell teams whether they did good or bad, made a good selection or not, etc. Neither do I or any of the rest of you or them (other "prognosticators") who don’t work for the specific team.
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." ~Groucho Marx
Good post
I love doing my own mock draft, but I will wait until things become more clear
Check out motownballin.blogspot.com
I don't know why...
But my least favorite “Draft Expert” is Todd McShay. Because Mel Kiper is an idiot, but he seems to stick to his guns a little more, where McShay will go on the radio and say one thing, then that night have a totally different viewpoint.
I hate McShay the most as well
He is the least credible guy out there.
Check out Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
Actually
First off, great post. Lots of good stuff in there . . .
I think the key to remember is that Mel doesn’t build a “consensus board”. He’s not trying to make his picks fit in with the hive mind, or adjust his board to fit what he hears certain teams are looking for. He builds his board like he’s an NFL scouting department of one. Some players he’s right about, some players he’s wrong about. In that sense, he’s actually much more accurate than the “mocker” groupthink, because that is how each team builds their board. Moreover, when he mocks, he makes the call like he would if he were in charge of that team’s personnel. The Lions could come right out and say “We have no intention of taking a QB with the #1 overall pick” and he wouldn’t change his mock, because HE thinks the Lions need a QB, and HE thinks Stafford is the best available at 1.1.
My favorite example of this is Troy Williamson, where most mockers had him in the second round, until his blazing 40 time. Then he snuck into the low first, and then just a few days before the draft started rocketing up everyone’s mocks. Then, it was rumored that Minnesota was looking to trade down and nab him . . . and then Minnesota just stood pat at (I believe) 1.7 and took him. He was clearly way, way, way up Minnesota’s draft board—I believe partly because they’d just given up Randy Moss and wanted the tallest, fastest wideout. If you went and looked at every single team’s draft board for that year, I bet you would have found him listed anywhere from #5 to #55 . . . as PFT is fond of saying, 31 teams might say “hell no”, but it only takes one to say “yes”.
http://thelionsinwinter.blogspot.com
by ty@thelionsinwinter on Feb 6, 2009 10:13 AM EST reply actions
BTW
Don’t mean to self-promote, but check out the NSS Interblog mock over at Next Season Sports (a Seattle sports blog). They have a blogger for each team, including both yours truly and Steve from www.detroitlionsblog.com.
Link is here.
Peace
Ty
http://thelionsinwinter.blogspot.com
by ty@thelionsinwinter on Feb 6, 2009 10:20 AM EST reply actions
Mel Kiper
I recall hearing a dicussion between Kiper and another “talking head” about how Kiper got into doing draft picks, (it was a number of years ago). Kiper, indicated that he was doing mock drafts while in college, and to raise some spending money published a draft guide that he sold on campus. The demand was such that he formed a company to do it year round.
I personally do not like his mock drafts, but as others have said, he puts alot of work in to put it together.

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