ESPN Poll: Don't Select Stafford
by Twon82 on Mar 28, 2009 11:11 PM EDT
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PrintAccording to an ESPN poll on their NFL page, fans have voted that the Lions should select another player besides Matthew Stafford.
Question is/was as follows:
Who would you select No. 1 if you ran the Lions?
- Michael Crabtree (8%)
- Aaron Curry (15%)
- Mark Sanchez (11%)
- Jason Smith (23%)
- Matthew Stafford (43%)
Now, at first glance, it would seem like Matthew Stafford is being selected as the favorite. But, I interpret this as saying that Stafford is not impressive enough to swing the majority of the vote. Interesting facts about this poll:
- 38% of all voters were split between Curry and Smith
- Michigan voters went 69% in favor of either Curry or Smith, leaving Stafford with only 23% of the remaining vote.
- Georgia voters went 55% in favor of Stafford, with similarly high percentages coming from surrounding southern states who saw him compete regularly.
I found this poll overly interesting for many reasons, but mostly because I feel that it shows an overall disapproval of Stafford as the #1 pick. If he were overwhelmingly the option for the Lions (as Kiper and McShay would have us believe), he would not be in such question by fans and other media alike.
Daunte Culpepper is not the answer in the long run for Detroit. No one in the Pride is claiming that. And honestly, I'm tired of hearing that argument. Stafford is not the answer long-term either, and I have a feeling that the common sentiment that is being displayed by fans will convince the Lions front office of that, if it hasn't already.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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Perhaps someone can help...
But I’m confused by the idea that certain positions aren’t “worth” the 1st overall pick. Shouldn’t the 1st player selected be the best player, regardless of position? I mean why is Stafford a 2nd tier QB any other year acceptable at 1, but the top LB, and the top player in the draft not be worth the pick? Or for instance Raji? Why isn’t the top DT worth the pick? He’s a better value in the spot than Stafford. I will agree with Monroe or Smith (I personally like Monroe better). They apparently are “worth” the pick. What does that mean?
A LB isn't worth the #1 cuz
You can find LB’s at anywhere in the draft and have them start and be productive. Unless you play the 3-4 and want them to dabble in pass rushing too, there just is no need to grab a LB at #1 overall.
Your coach is Jim Schwartz. Im sure he knows first hand that aside from Keith Bullock that his team hasn’t drafted a LB with even a first rounder.
You can get a LB, and a damn good one, even in the 3rd round. Aaron Curry may be very good, but the only way to justify him being a #1 overal is if you really think he is Ray Lewis. That’s it ( even Ray was a late first rounder). Even if he is Ray Lewis, you can grab a LB at #20 if you really desire a LB. Do you honestly think that if you got Ray Maualuga at #20 that he’d be any worse than Curry? Maualuga was the best LB in college football, but Curry surpased him cuz of some workouts?
The point is, you can find good-great LB’s later in the draft. You have an extreme;y lower chance of finding a LT or a QB. You might say look at al the undrafted and lower round QB’s, but those guys really didn’t start playing until they were in the league for a while.
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 29, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
You can also
Get a damn good QB in the 3rd rd (especially in this draft where I don’t think any of the QBs are worth a 1st round nod). That’s my point. The idea that THE BEST player in the draft must be ignored because he isn’t “worth” the pick is bull. The idea that only certain positions should be taken limits everyones’ draft boards and in all reality works best for the people picking 2-4 where apparently an awesome LB or DT is “worth” the pick.
I just don’t get how why teams want to pass on THE BEST player for what is in this case (if they take Stafford that is) possibly the 10th best player. How is it that THE BEST player gets passed up for the 10th best player all because of position? As I said, if I was making pick 2-4, I’d be thrilled with that logic from the Lions, assuming they use it.
OK
But when you take the best player available, you are assuming you have no other needs at any other position. The Lions, aside from maybe Megatron, and your LB’s, have a ton of needs.
While it could be logical to make that LB core GREAT with Curry, why wouldn’t you try to get an elite player at another position becaue your LB crew is shored up already. Yea you could make them great, but considering it already is good and the rest of the team sucks, why not try to figure something out with the rest of the team????
OK, Stafford really isn’t the #1 player, actually to me he isn’t even the #1 QB Id rather have Sanchez cuz he shows touch (he has a strong arm too). But to me you either grab the QB if you don’t have one or as a copycat league you grab the LT when the past few teams that drafted one this early have gotten much better with one.
The QB actually is usually never the “best player” in the draft. I only recall Peyton Manning (even tho some thought Ryan Leaf was better) and Michael Vick being the consensus best players in the draft, the other QB’s picked high were just QB’s. The QB position is so tough to find, you just can’t wait if you have the chance to select one.
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 29, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Because our biggest weakness
is still defense. Our offense was serviceable last year. They weren’t the reason we started the 2nd Q of every game down by 21 (yes I’ve seen the discussion about how the offense contributed, but in reality it was Lions punt, other team drives down, TD, repeat). We couldn’t tackle. I would take Raji then to solidfy our D-line if not Curry.
I agree with you about Sanchez by the way. He’s got the arm, accuracy and pocket presence.
Maybe someone knows this, but how many teams that are perpetually in the top 15 of the draft keep swinging and missing on QBs at that point? Like the Lions. We went Chuck Long (he bombed), Andre Ware (he bombed), then had Scott Mitchell for a few years then Charlie Batch (2nd rd pick), then Joey Harrington. I figure between 3 and 5 years for each failed experiment. That means the Lions have spent at a minimum of 12 of the last 20+ years hoping we picked the right guy. That’s over half of the time looking for a QB. How many other teams have done the same thing and are the same ones who are perpetually in the top 15? I would bet yes.
Yea I can see how your scared
of the QB’s. Especially since neither seems to jump out at you, even as much as the #3 overall guy last year Matt Ryan, although when I watched Ryan lead BC’s crap offense into th #1 ranking I was convinced. Although to me, after watching these 2 a lot during the past season, I wouldn’t be too scared of either of them.
To me, Raji may be the best option if your gonna have to go Defense. You traded a DT for a LB already, so this may be paving the way for Raji. he would be a nice pick cuz he is huge and athletic. Id say he’d a lot like Glen Dorsey although less heralded, which may be a good think cuz people were expecting too much of Dorsey.
LB’s are good, but usually they are as good as their D-Line. If you have a fat in their like Raji (who actaully if you paired him with Shaun rogers……..Sorry) he would help your D immensly. Your D wouldn’t be so bad if you kept Rogers. Id say you would have won a game at least with him in there.
To me the 3 smartest picks are Jason Smith/Eugene Monro, Mark Sanchez, BJ Raji, then Curry, in that order.
I only say QB cuz to me you just have to take the top QB when he’s available. Yea you have a history of bad QB’s, but actually aside from barry Sanders (and I guess eventually Megatron, dude’s a beast) your franchise really hasn’t hit on much no?
Grab the QB (Sanchez), then get an OT like Beatty.. Build the defense with the rest of the picks, I say this cuz Schwartz’s defense in Tennessee was mostly lower round picks. You may not like it cuz you think Curry, or one of the LT’s is the best player in the draft, but you have too many needs especially at QB. Your history nonwithstanding, you will have a better chance at the #1 overalll guy being any good than the 33 or later guy. You can’t wait to luck out on a lower round guy.
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 29, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I suggest you check your facts.
“cuz Schwartz’s defense in Tennessee was mostly lower round picks.”
Sorry FB, that’s not true. Four defensive starters on Tennessee were free agents. The rest were drafted; four first rounders, a second, a fourth, and a seventh [Finnegan a Pro Bowler]. That does not include these other first rounders, Pacman Jones and Andre Woolfolk, both CBs. And two other second rounders in the last ten years who are now there for depth. In 2002, the year they drafted Haynesworth, their first six picks were defence.
That is how you get a dominant defence. By committing your resources to it, not by plugging in veterans no one wants. This is what I hope Schwartz brings to Detroit.
I never said plug
with no name defense guys.
If anything, you make sure your defensive signing are the polar opposite of the Washington Redskins, and more like my NY Giants- See A. Pierce, Fred Robbins, Danny Clark, Boley, Canty, Bernard, and the rest were draft picks. Smart picks and smart signings
And who were the 4 first rounders? Haynesworth (16th overall) Bullock (30—pretty close to a second rounder actually). Woolfork and Pacman aren’t on the team anymore. Jason Jones and VanDenbosch were 2nd rounders.
But yea, you get a great defense by drafting guys and building around them, smartly, and it can be FA’s. But if you have the #1 overall, you don’t draft a LB if you have other needs, especially if those needs are NOT LB!!!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 29, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Scared?
No. Tired of the mindset that a highly drafted QB is the fix to all of our problems. I’ll actually go beyond that. I’m tired of the idea that the flashiest new toy (whether it’s QB, WR or RB) will be the cureall for a team whose defense has been neglected to the point of disfunction.
We need defense. Therefore we should focus on who would be the best defensive player to take at number 1. Yes we need OL. But we need OGs. And while I agree that we can move one of them inside for the short term, we could also draft a highly ranked interior lineman at 20 or 33 and solve the problem.
Again, I’m tired of neglecting the rest of our team in the hopes that one day we will draft the right QB in the top 10 and he will save us. But I guess we could keep trying. At the rate we’re going, we should have a top 10 pick for the next bunch of years anyways.
ok
But to me, there isn’t a defensive player worth taking #1 overall. A LB can be had at #20 and while you may not think it now, he may have just as productive a career as Curry.
And I can see where your coming from that you have no defense. But to me the way to go is to grab one of the LT’s (Left Tackle BTW, there is no “LT” – the real LT (Lawerence Taylor) in the draft. That way you can at least patch up the offense and hope that the guy is more Joe Thomas or jake Long than Robert Gallery. Then with #20 and beyond, you can draft defense. This draft is very defense.
And while you may even think Curry is such a safe pick, how about you look at the last LB to be drafted that high who was thought of as the next great LB, Lavaar Arrington. He was incredible in college, but what did he do in the NFL.
So don’t think that Curry is so safe. I say you have a decent LB core right now, why not try to get a nice piece for you O-Line. I don’t know how good Cherilus was last year but since you spent a 1st rounder on him I guess you can at least assume you have some nice bookends on paper. Placing Backus at guard (where he belonged all this time LOL) and you may have a decent line. The Browns O-line was horrible but then they got Joe Thomas and moved Steinbach inside then instantly they were very good.
So don’t think that Curry automatically saves you either.
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 30, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
“very deep defensively”
You got solid LB’s liek Marcus Freeman or Clint Sintim who may be 2nd-3rd round guys who can shore up that other LB spot.
You can’t find a Jason Smith or a Monroe deeper in the draft. But you can find a LB who may very well end up being just as good as Curry later in the draft.
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 30, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Why can't you
Hey look you can say all you want about how there is another Curry in this Draft but to say there are not players like Monroe and Smith is your opinion and frankly i think it is ubsurd. How can you say there are LBs that could be as good as Curry later on and then turn around and say Monroe and Smith are 1 of a kind? Please tell me what round Tom Brady was drafted in i am sure there were people saying this guy is better then Tom Brady later on so come on the draft is a mystery guys who were supposed to be great failed (Ryan Leaf and 75% of all Lions picks) and players who weren’t supposed to make it in the NFL turned out to be Superstars (Tom Brady,James Harrison,Kurt Warner,Jeff Garcia,Marques Colston) so if you are going to say something please be fair
ok sorry
Let me simplify If you are going to say you can get a LB later with the same talent as the top LB then don’t turn around and say there are only 2 Elite OTs because you cant say that i mean look at that argument what if i was to say there is 1 Elite LB and you can get a OT with the same talent as the top 2 later on what would you say? you would call me an Idiot and tell me i am wrong and then we would get into a heated argument over who’s OPINION is right. My way of thinking is this there are 3 guys head and shoulders above the rest (Curry,Monroe,Smith) and then i look at these 3 and i see that there are 2 OTs so i am going to look and see who i think is better (Monroe) so know i am down to 2 and i look at which side of the ball needs the most help and that would be the Defense and i dont care what spot it is the Defense needs the help the most
Possibly Nitpicking
I agree with most of your post, but everyone was rating Curry as the best linebacker out there the entire year. Maualuga was on many more televised games and was a bigger name, and I was always thinking “Who is this Curry guy and why is he so good?” whenever I looked at projected linebackers, but Curry has been the better prospect for a good portion of the year. Just making sure people didn’t think Curry was a “workout warrior” type prospect, like Vernon Davis.
Here is an interesting article.
http://www.advancednflstats.com/2007/05/how-nfl-teams-value-positions.html
The flaws in this article is that LTs are considered to be much more valuable than RTs, whereas the study lumps them together. He also does not consider that many teams run a 3-4 defence, hence only one DT and four LBs. And also, what about players who can play multiple positions? I would think they are inherently more valuable than some that can only play one position.
There are other practical issues which effect value. For instance, certain positions can be easily substituted for during a game, RB, WR, Defensive line. Not really for QB, MLB, or LT. Even though there are people who have tried to assign some value through the use of data, there is some subjective bias which has to do with the skills involved, the number of players of high quality available, and the type of ‘system’ a team runs.
In the end there is not much doubt that QB is far and away the most valuable position. The LT gains most of his value from his key role in protecting the QB. And conversely, the DE gets his value from being able to get to the QB.
Curry gets downgraded because an OLB comes in low on this list. Although fans of Lawrence Taylor might disagree. Personally, a player who is dominant, and is a playmaker can have a large impact on the game from any position. The trick is to identify that quality in the draft, then have a coach who is good enough to utilize that skill properly. Sorry, slightly off topic.
Curry
- pick should be THE best at THAT position. Curry is by far the best LB in the draft… there is no debate, no argument. For the same reason we took Calvin, we should take Curry.
The guy is a freak.
Freaks are good.
Freaks are good
But like the DallASS Cowgirls, they mean absolutely nothing when the rest of the team is a bunch of scrubs. Curry is far from a Cowgirl, but too many needs to go for the best available guy, especially when LB is not a need. You NEED a QB, you NEED defensive line help, you NEED O-Line help. You LB crew is fine from the looks of it. They’d be a whole lot better if they didn’t have to contend with O-Lineman cuz your D-Lineman are on their backs.
Haven’t you learned already that when your team sucks, you don’t go head and draft who you think is the best available guy? Millen? WR? ring a bell?
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 29, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I think too much is being made of the #1 Pick
I have been coming around on Stafford, and while I still prefer that the Lions pick Monroe or J. Smith [in that order] #1, I think Stafford is a viable second option.
The key for me is what the Lions do with the rest of the draft. What unit and positions will they target, that will determine whether this draft is a success or not.
Lions fans need to get over the QB bust paranoia. There have been plenty of early pick busts at other positions [Tony Mandarich, Charles Rogers, Chris Claiborne, Bryant Westbrook, Robert Gallery, DeWayne Robertson, Cedric Benson, Curtis Enis, Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren,…] like OT, WR, LB, CB, DT, RB, DE.
If the Lions do their homework and the coaching staff properly prepares, trains, motivates, and use the guy they should turn out okay. Maybe not a Pro Bowler, but at least a solid starter.
The Lions Management
I have complete faith in Martin Mayhew and Jim Schwartz but i am afraid they are not calling the shots for the #1 pick i don’t think they have a choice i thin William Clay Ford wants a QB and thats what he is going to get and also i believe Tom Lewand is in love with Stafford so that is why i am “paranoid”.
I truly believe that if Schwartz and Mayhew had full command over the #1 pick Curry or Monroe would already be signed they have a Defensive Backround and know they need to build the lines so it would be one of the 2 guys easily. Go look at some of the comments by Schwartz on Stafford it doesn’t seem to me that he is sold on the guy but yet he still pours over film why is that?
Bryant Westbrook
I wouldn’t call Bryant Westbrook a bust. It was clear he was going to be a stud until he had the achilles injury. He led the Lions in pass deflections as a rookie. He looked like he was going to be our shutdown corner. It’s a shame he had that achilles injury
i agree bryant westbrook held promise
i kinda hoped he would recover and come to the Eagles so we could have the brothers :P … we have the Andrews now so its all good !
"I think pro athletes should be forced to use steroids. I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create."- Daniel Tosh
Crabtree ! Crabtree ! Crabtree ! -NPK
by NorthPhillyKid on Mar 29, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe so but.....
For whatever reason, players fail to live up to their potential. The point is that Curry, Smith, Raji, Monroe, could all go down with a bad injury. That does not mean you shy away from selecting them when you have the opportunity. If the Lions have done their homework and believe that Stafford is in the Philip Rivers/Jay Cutler class of QB, I would take him. If they have doubts and think a suitable QB will be available next year, pass and take Monroe or J. Smith.
by NorthLeft12 on Mar 29, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
if he ends up like Phillip Rivers i will be thrilled
But he wont. Why? Because he is a big baby if he is going to go out there and trash talk everyone on the field i love the pick but he is not he will be more of a wimp then Cutler is i don’t want Cutler or Stafford if they draft a QB i want Sanchez if they trade for one i want Lienart
Northleft
Why are you so down on Curry? and don’t give me this crap about we can’t pay a LB that much money or that the trade for Peterson means we don’t need a great LB anymore because i will use the same arguement at the LT spot because we drafted a guy last year who was supposed to fix the Problems with the Offensive Line and did it? No. So please tell me why Aaron Curry is a bad pick
Im gonna mention it again
Curry is bad cuz you have a good LB core. Sims and Peterson are good enough that if you find even a later round pick, or GASP, someone on the team already, they will be made better by the addition of Peterson just like Sims will be.
Aside from CJ, you have nothing else. so you draft from that. QB is smart cuz you have better luck of getting a good player at #1 than the other ones. Or if you think you can last another year and get a QB (very, very very! dumb idea, you have no idea where your gonna draft, although #1 again may be a good guess), you can go ahead and draft O-Line or D-Line help
Like WBL mentioned, your D sucks, so maybe Raji is the best pick for you. He’s a better option than Curry if you think Raji is the best lineman cuz if you had 3 good LB’s, they are gonna be running wild cuz the Line sucks. If you have a stout line, the LB’s can run wild, which is actually what Peterson and Sims do well.
Draft the Lineman, or QB, then live with it. If you draft Curry, it will be just as dumb as getting a WR again even tho he may be the best available.
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 29, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm
the last receiver we drafted in the 1st round is now the best player on the team by far and if we didn’t have him we would have been kicked out of the league right now because he is the only good thing on this team. And i am going to say this again what the heck does Julian Peterson do for us? Nothing he is gone in 2 years you guys aren’t even looking down the road if you take Curry we have a chance of bringing him back if not no way because he will see that the Defense still sucks and go somewhere where he has a shot at a Ring so like is said don’t give me that Peterson trade junk it is so short sighted it is ridiculous so please give me a real reason why Aaron Curry is a bad pick and also tell me how taking a LT is going to help or a QB
Curry is not a bad pick
He is just a HORRIBLE pick for the Lions. Peterson may be a """stopgap"""", but here’s a reason:
Ray Lewis was an afterthought for a few years, why? The Raven had no D-Tackles. The ravens were great when they had DT’s who can take up blockers, i.e Siragusa and Sam Adams. The Ravens get Haloti Ngata, sudden;t Lewis is alive again and the Ravens are contenders.
Who do the Lions have to let Curry roam free? No one. Now I guess you can draft CUrry and grab Jerry or Raji’s teammate Brace later on, but that’s hoping for a lot. If you draft Raji, you have that and then can grab a LB who may very well be just as good as Curry, someone like Maualuga (who given the perioud when they ACTUALLY PLAYED GAMES, Ray-Ray was the best LB in college football).
A LT helps, cuz look at the Dolphins. They had no defense at all when they were 1-15. They didn’t really add much, but added a LT. It shores up the offense is what it does. And when you have a chance to grab an elite LT, you do it.
If you want to spend all your picks on defense, I guess you could go Curry then Jerry/Brace, or more wisely Raji then Maualuga/Cushing. Personally I don’t care, but Id go for the latter.
by FreeBradshaw on Mar 29, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Maulaga
Ok Maulaga was in one of the top Defenses in the country he had a huge supporting cast Aaron Curry played in a Defense that has 3 NFL Caliber Players so how can you compare them? Aaron Curry went to Wake Forest and helped turn that program around he is the only player out there who can say he helped build a program and that is Curry and isn’t that what the Lions need guys to help them Rebuild? and Curry will do fine because he will have Peterson and Sims on the sides and the OLB dont have to worry about making a “Safe” tackle anymore because Curry has got there back
Uhh, I did not say he was a bad pick.
I’m not down on Curry. I just think going with Monroe/J. Smith or Stafford is the smarter play.
First, we are putting a lot of resources into one part of the defence. The D Line needs a lot more help, especially at DT. Unfortunately, Raji is not worth the #1 selection.
Second, Cherilus was drafted as a Right Tackle, and from all accounts was doing an okay job by the end of the year. But he is only one man. The last three years, Backus has given up the most sacks among LTs in the NFL. We need to fix that. Part of it was due to Kitna, but Culpepper is no improvement in the mobility department.
I like Aaron Curry and think he could help this team a lot. I just think that one of the LTs or Stafford will help them more in the long run.
by NorthLeft12 on Mar 29, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
ill be honest
I hate the thought of Matt Stafford in Detroit i also hate the thought of Jay Cutler coming to Detroit and i will tell you why. Whoever we get with that #1 pick is going to be the poster boy for the Franchise, people are going to look at this guy, whoever it is, and say this is what the future of the Lions is about. Now i really believe Detroit needs a guy like Ben Roethlisberger, a guy who will run for the first down and not be afraid to take the punishment, and a guy who is not afraid to get in someones face. Now Stafford and Cutler are both going to slide for if they see a hit coming neither one is a tremendous leader now don’t get me wrong i respect Cutler for playing through his Diabetes and having a positive attitude about it, but i have also lost respect for him because of the whole Trade fiasco if he was a true leader there is no way he would give up on his teamates he would clean his wound and get back there on the field and help his team win a Championship. Stafford and maybe i am wrong but he seems to me that he needs to be pampered like a spoiled little girl i really believe he would come out of the game because he broke a nail and yeah he has talent but the Toughness and Leadership are not there
like i said earlier the guy we get with #1 is the Poster Boy for a “New Era” in Lions history and i really think it should be a era of nastiness thats why i think that there should be 3 candidates and you chose from the 3 Aaron Curry,Eugene Monroe,Jason Smith and i look at all 3 and i look at the most complete and talented so Jason Smith misses the cut so then you go with whatever you think is the bigger need and i say Defense because the Defense just needs more playmakers no matter the position
Raji are you serious?
Look at the Guy he is about to explode plus i have my doubts about his height i don’t think he is 6’2’’ the guy is so prone to injury because of his huge size it isn’t even funny and you want to take this guy? Why? besides the facts that i just mentioned he had another 300 LB guy standing right next to him to take aguy off of him so dont be so impressed with his production he is just the Best of a Very weak class he isn’t going to be a pro bowler he will be a good player just not great and oh yeah if you draft him you are drafting a guy who can’t even stay on the field for a series so please tell me why we must take Raji
Math Help Please
I’m confused as to the interpretation of the ESPN poll. Stafford has roughly twice as many votes as the highest vote getter, so how does that signal disapproval?
Here's the math...
….more people voted for another option besides Stafford.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
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