Wednesday Notes: Cutler Placed on Trading Block; Stafford Workout Goes Well
by Sean Yuille on Apr 1, 2009 1:56 AM EDT
in Detroit Lions Notes
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Print- All teams in the first-round have a GM in the Pride of Detroit Community Mock Draft. I know I said I will have a random drawing for the who gets to be the Lions GM, but I changed my mind. DrewsLions, an author on Pride of Detroit, will represent the Lions. For those of you left out, I will post a list of alternates, as I assume there will be some no shows. Also, full details of the posting schedule and how to make picks will be posted either later today or tomorrow.
- Jay Cutler has been placed on the trading block. After failing to hear back from Cutler in the last 10 days, the Broncos decided to go ahead and begin trade discussions, basically ending Cutler's career in Denver. There is absolutely no way he will play for the Broncos after this. The team is done with him and he is done with the team.
The Lions are one of at least six teams "expected to be seriously involved in trade talks." Detroit is definitely at an advantage since they have three draft picks in the first 33 selections. Even so, one has to wonder if the Broncos would want to acquire the top overall pick, which would force them to pay a huge contract to a rookie QB.
I certainly hope Martin Mayhew finds a way to pull off a trade to acquire Cutler, but only if he doesn't have to give up too much. I still think the most likely scenario is a three-way trade with a team like Cleveland, but who knows at this point. This saga just got more interesting and is only going to give us more drama in the coming weeks. - Eight Lions officials headed to Athens, Georgia, on Tuesday to hold a workout with Matthew Stafford. Stafford spent an hour and a half diagramming plays before throwing the football around. Scott Linehan directed the workout, which went very well by all accounts. The word being used to describe the workout (from SI.com) is "flawless," and some now think he will be the No. 1 pick for sure.
While I don't doubt things went well, I don't think we should assume he will be the pick just yet. He very well may be, but with word getting out about how well Stafford performed, perhaps a few teams could now have some interest in making a trade to get Stafford. The positive review of Stafford's session with the Lions will only make that more likely, and with Jay Cutler being placed on the trading block, a whole new element is added to this story.
One way or another, I think the Lions will come to an initial decision about who the pick will be by next week. Mark Sanchez's pro day is tomorrow, and when the Lions return to Allen Park, the draft board will begin to be finalized. Obviously trade negotiations with the Broncos could slow down negotiations with the top pick, but then again, they could be related talks depending on how much Denver wants and how much the Lions are willing to give up. - Buster Davis was waived by the Colts yesterday. Davis was cut by the Lions prior to the beginning of last season and played well for the Colts. I would definitely like to see him return to the Lions.
- Even Lions' players parking setup has been changed by Jim Schwartz.
- I picked defensive tackle Peria Jerry for the Lions with the 20th selection of the SB Nation Mock Draft.
- One time Detroit Lion Gus Cifelli died at the age of 84 last Thursday.
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cutler...
guys seriously…think this through
cutler stinks!!!
besides, we had our chance to draft him, we passed him up, lets fuggetaboutit and move on already, he’s not worth those valuable draft picks we have this year to play around with!!!!
Cutler has proven that he can play at the NFL level.
Stafford obviously has not. If you can get an NFL QB, you get him. If you get Cutler, looking at your team you have just as good a team as Denver. Their Defense sucks, tho it may have some nice players on paper. But The offense and the passing game was all they had. No running game cuz they all got injured. At the Broncos were competing with your Lions for the worst in the league.
WHile he won’t fix your defense, he would fix the QB situation. Unless you think that all of a sudden Stafford is better than him, you can’t know how good Stafford (or Sanchez, aka the better QB) will be.
Cutler would be perfect if you could work out a good deal. I don’t think that his contract is the issue either right now.
If you could maybe give up the first overall and your 2nd round pick, then maybe turn around and get Denver to throw in their 2nd rounder or maybe even their first, Id say it would work out nicely. This 3 team trade would be concerning, cuz if you had to get Brady Quinn instead I wouldn’t do it.
I agree
I dont think that we should get Cutler he is a baby. Also we dont need a QB that talks like he does making a worse image of our team. I would rather have Stafford than him.
by hate2lovelions on Apr 1, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd take a young solid QB if I had the chance...
Say what you want about Cutler, he’s proven he can play well in the NFL (you can’t say that about any of next year’s rookie QB’s—maybe they will, maybe they won’t; young QB’s have a high bust rate).
Looking at what Detroit and Denver have in the first four rounds…
DET:# 1……………….20…………33…………………………………….65………………..84………………………….
DEN:# ………….12………………………………..48…………………………………..79……………………………114
I’ll trade 1, 33, 65, and 84 + Culpepper for 12, 48, 79 and 114 + Cutler
Denver gets to move up significantly in every round and get a once-great journeyman veteran QB with a strong arm (albeit with a lot of question marks).
Detroit still has the same number of draft picks, although they’re all lower, but we have our future franchise QB, a young guy with a strong arm, a decent ceiling and a high floor.
Too optimistic? Bad value? What do you think?
Giving up too much...
I would seriously question how much value Cutler is worth in terms of draft positions. I’m not saying that your plan isn’t good, but we all know that Detroit is the place where talented, young QBs come to die (I would name a handful of them, but we all know who they are), so is wasting a #1 pick on an unproven rookie QB the right choice to make? However, you don’t want to pay a defensive player #1 draft choice money, so a trade would be the best option for the Lions, but not at the expense of weakening every draft choice we have in order to do so.
In my humble option, and take it for the 2 cents it is worth, I would swap the Lion’s #1 and #20 picks for Denver’s #12 pick, while also giving Denver the Lion’s first pick in the second round (#33 overall) and Dante Culpepper for Cutler. This would give Denver the #1 overall selection to pick up either Stafford or Sanchez, plus the #20 pick to help improve Denver’s defense. Culpepper would provide Denver with the veteran leadership they need until their rookie QB is ready to start. Meanwhile, the Lions would essentially be replacing their #1 overall pick for a marquee QB in Cutler, plus actually move up their #20 pick to the #12 pick where they can land a higher value defensive player in return. Granted the Lions would give up their #33 pick overall, bringing in a veteran QB of whom has proven his value in the NFL and would not have to spend multple seasons to develop would be worth that draft pick. They also wouldn’t have to pay Cutler as much as a 1st round – 1st overall pick and could use some of that savings to acquire higher value veteran players through trades and free agency.
The only problem the Lions have is if Denver wants a capable yet young veteran QB in the deal. Culpepper is proven, but since his knee reconstructions a few years back, he isn’t the same QB we all saw in Minnesota. If Culpepper isn’t worth anything in terms of a QB in a trade deal, the Lions have nothing to offer in place of him. That would be the deal killer in any potential trade talks with Denver.
Sean, Buster Davis?
Sean,
I tried to look up his stats…..okay found him. I don’t see his connection to the Lions. Says he was drafted by Arizona in the third round in 2007[and cut that year too, uh oh], and all his career stats are from Indy in 2008. Okay, I found another post that shows him playing one game in 2007 for the Lions. Was a member of the practice squad.
Jeez, The guy is a little small for a MLB [5’9"]. Are you thinking of him for special teams? Lastly, he is from Florida State [red flag/Danger Will Robinson! Danger!] Sorry, I am biased against Florida State players. Don’t like Miami either although their players usually produced in the NFL. They were jackasses, but they played hard and were generally successful. More than I could say for Fla. State.
What did you like about him Sean?
You're right
All those stupid,lazy FSU players out there like Darnell Dockett and Anquan Boldin. We sure don’t need any help like that on our team.
Buster Davis may be undersized and had some trouble staying on rosters, but even if we draft a MLB as a starter,we need backups and he is the best backup out on the wires today.
Unless they convince Derrick Brooks to come up and play for the Lions. Oops, another FSU guy.
Okay, I deserved that.
ATL,
Funny, I consider myself an open minded guy but I have to admit that I have some [unfair] biases against some odd groups of people.
Are you an FSU alum?
OH, and I never called them stupid and lazy. Just said I am biased against them. More to do with their coach and that goddamn chop than anything else I guess.
Got me
I did go to FSU. Sure they may have gone south the last couple years, but they still put out good players. I may have garnet colored glasses on, but I don’t see a rash of FSU disasters in the NFL.
I wouldn’t care if Buster Davis came from St. Mary’s Bible College for Blind Woman (Go fighting aprons!) He is the best MLB available today in FA. We need AT LEAST 2 MLBs before kickoff.
NorthLeft12
Ernie Sims is a former FSU player. = p
When angry, count four; when very angry, swear. ~Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson, 1894
Contrary to popular opinion......
I know this will probably bring down a lot of abuse from the Lion faithful but….Ernie Sims is not one of my favourite Lions on the defence. I don’t remember him distinguishing himself that much as a rookie, and last year he looked terrible. I will keep an open mind and watch him a little closer this year.
And for the record, I did not know he was from Florida State.
Who led the Lions in Missed Tackles?
I wonder if they keep stats like that. Probably as subjective as the tackles are now.
last year
He played for us in preseason last year and he was actually our best MLB I was upset when we released him to keep Dizon. He tore us up when we played the Colts and I would love for us to try to sign him again. He can play the position and is awesome against the run. This would allow us to pick up a guy in the 3rd round like McKillop or Brinkley so if they didnt work out Davis could still be our MLB
by hate2lovelions on Apr 1, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the feedback.
Seems to me like [trying] getting him back is a no brainer. It would reduce the need of the Lions to draft a second MLB in the sixth or seventh rounds.
Yeah, use one of those picks for a QB. HA!
Buster Davis
I watched this guy play at FSU and he was involved in every play. He’s a worker, too small for the NFL and a good kid. FSU gets a bad rap because of that stupid movie (The Program). Bobby Bowden actually gives a shit about his players. Just ask Myron Rolle, 3 year starter and a freaking Rhodes Scholar, skipping the draft and opting to resume his studies instead. He had an option to play in an FSU game or follow through with the Rhodes Scholarship, Bobby Bowden told him not to even think about the game.
Quote
"A significant portion of the academic fraud violations involved a music course offered to students without incident for more than 10 years before its academic integrity was compromised in the fall semester of 2006, resulting in academic fraud occurring during this time, as well as the 2007 spring and summer semesters.
In addition to the academic improprieties associated with the online music course, the former learning specialist provided impermissible assistance to at least three student-athletes by typing portions of papers assigned to them. She also provided answers to an online psychology course quiz for a student-athlete by instructing a second student-athlete to complete the quiz on behalf of the student-athlete enrolled in the course.
Ultimately, 61 student-athletes went through the NCAA’s reinstatement process as a result of these violations. The university believed it was likely that more student-athletes received improper assistance in the online music course, but it concluded the evidence to substantiate this belief was circumstantial and inconclusive."
It’s hard to determine if these are just the fall people or if it came on high. I’m pretty sure Bowden is pissed off about this since it effects his race with Joe Paterno for all time career wins in the FBS. My guess is an assistant AD probably had something to do with this. The coaches themselves seem to be in the clear. Don’t be surprised if Bowden lobbies to kick players guilty of these allegations off the team if they’re still at FSU.
What does that have to do with the players in the NFL?
Micheal Irviin played on team getting payed in cocaine. He sure turned out to be a crappy player.
Kudos for the Jerry Pick!
Some might say he is a slight reach at #20, but I don’t see anyone else that is nearly worth this selection for the Lions. Maybe William Beatty?
If you are lucky Beatty will be there at #33.
Re: Our Mock Draft
Please make it two rounds. I would love to see it be three rounds but frankly most people have trouble focusing beyond round one. Even our glorious pundits.
Thanks for giving us the opportunity anyway.
Nah, 3 rounds is good.
Anyone can do a two rounder. it’ll be interesting to see what folks can come up with. Hopefully, those that signed up will do a bit of research first. I logged in over at SBN site Arrowhead Pride and asked some questions already. Everyone should be making use of the other SBN sites. They will happily share their thoughts and opinions and you can read up on the team you’re drafting for. Great resource.
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." ~Groucho Marx
I would love three rounds!
Apparently there may be logistical issues for all involved, but I am up for it.
Just give me a chance to stock up on Cheetos, Keith’s Lager, and pepperoni sticks.
I'm up for 3 rounds..
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 1, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
That sorta reads wrong....
What I meant to say is that 3 rounds of mock drafting would be good.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 1, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh
And here I thought you were buying! I’d be up for 3 rounds then for sure! hehehaha
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." ~Groucho Marx
Bengals
I looked at the Bengals site and it appears that even if the first 5 picks manage to be Offensive Tackles, the Bengals will pick a sixth.
With the sixth pick of 2009 draft, the Bengals select…..Eben Britton?!?
by HoorayForEverything on Apr 1, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Denver is in denial
I just spent some time in the mile high report, there pretty nice people but they have this illusion that they will get market value for Cultler, I think they will get far less and will be luckly to walk away with a decent QB and a mid round #1pick.
They will
This isn’t the NBA where disgruntled players get traded for 50 cents on the dollar because of ridiculous guaranteed contracts. In the NFL, teams get fair value in trades even for disgruntled players. There are no less than 6 teams interested in Cutler. If you think that Denver isn’t going to start a bidding war amongst those teams you’re crazy. And if you don’t think that at least one of those teams is going to be willing to give up the farm to get a proven Pro Bowl caliber NFL quarterback in his mid-20s making $6 million a year then you clearly haven’t been watching this league for very long. If you need any proof just take a look at the Jeff George trade. That guy was LESS productive than Cutler and the Colts got TWO first rounders (and change) for him. Don’t underestimate the market for Cutler.
Jeff George
Was traded before free agency.
Yes, Cutler is cheap and under 3 more years of contract. Yes, there are 6 potential teams that can bid against each other. But, Denver has a pretty loud clock ticking in the background.
Say they wait too long or do not get what they wanted for Cutler and decide to keep him. You think Jay is mad now, think of how he will be after being jerked around on the trade table for a month. And Denver wants its new QB in place as soon as possible so they can get their team working.
I say that the benchmark here is the Cassel trade for a high 2nd. Cutler is worth more than Cassel, but not triple or quadruple. I think Denver would be lucky to get a 1st and a 2nd.
What does free agency have to do with a player under contract?
Do you really think that all 6 teams that want him are going to wait out Denver to try to get him on the cheap? That’s absurd. One of them is going to step up and give Denver a good offer. Honestly, would it shock you if Dan “Mr Overpay” Snyder offered them Washington’s 1st rounders this year and next year to get Cutler?
Yes
Yes, it would. I don’t doubt some team might overpay (I hope its not the Lions), but I don’t think that any team will give up two 1st round picks for Cutler.
In the long long ago in the times of no free agency, the only way to get a player you didn’t draft was to go to the waivers (crappy players that got cut) or to trade for them. Today, you can also just wait for them to go into free agency.
So they have him under contract now. That means they have the choice of trading him, keeping him and giving him a huge contract, or keeping him with the current contract but having him sit out for a year in defiance (the nuclear option—no one wins and everyone loses). The only real option they have is #1 (possibly #2, but they got into this because they didn’t want to pay him more) and everyone coming to the table knows it.
Yes trading him is the only option
But there are at least 6 teams that want him. That’s where they get their leverage. I’m not suggesting that they’ll opt to keep him with a big contract or to sit him as punishment. But starting a bidding war amongst the 6+ teams that want him is very likely. The Broncos will get very close to market value for Cutler. Maybe not two first rounders but anyone out there who thinks that the Lions (or any other team for that matter) is going to get Cutler on the cheap (like a single 2nd rounder) is deluded.
And while free agency has effected the trade market, teams still have to give up a lot to get franchise QBs. No young franchise QBs hits free agency because no team is willing to give one up without compensation. Free agency will NOT be a factor in whatever Cutler trade materializes.
Yep
Cultler doesn’t want to play for Denver anymore, why offer the farm when they HAVE to move him, when Cultler gets traded it will the day before or mintues before the draft. Maybe even after the draft. Teams are going to make Denver sweat knowing they have to get rid of him, and no I can’t say Snyder won’t over pay, he’s a moron and theres no telling what morons will do.
Please don't drink and type wumanchu
Fair markert value!!!!!! what year did the Jeff George trade happen?? did the Raiders get fair markert value for Randy Moss, did we get fair market value for Shawn Rogers? The last time I remember a trade happening where a team got more in return was us sending Williams to Dallas, and Dallas got the short end of the stick in that trade. Please tell me minus Jeff George and walker trade back in the 80’s where fair market value trade happened
I'll drink all I want
Moss didn’t do @#$% that year for the Raiders. You can’t base that trade on what he did after the fact. The 4th round pick that they got for him was commensurate with his production from the previous year which was 13 games, 553 yds, and 3 tds. As for Shawn Rogers, all I can say is that was a Millen trade so it doesn’t qualify as an example.
You want an example of a team getting fair trade value for a disgruntled player? How about San Diego and Eli Manning. They got Philip Rivers, the Giants 3rd round pick that year, AND the Giants 1st and 5th round picks the following year. I believe one of those picks turned into Shawn Merriman. And this was all for a player that had never stepped foot on an NFL field. Cutler has WAY more value now than Eli did in 2004.
That was a draft trade
Give me a NFL player that was traded from 2000 till now where it was fair market value,
What does it matter?
If it was a draft trade or not. The fact that Eli wasn’t a Pro Bowler and they Chargers STILL got that much in return only strengthens my point. If an unproven commodity can get that much value in return, a Pro Bowler should command more.
If you want an example of a probowler, technically Roy Williams made the Pro Bowl in 2006. I’d say the Lions made out pretty well in that trade wouldn’t you? I think the Eli trade is more analogous to the Cutler situation though….draft day trade or not.
Le'ts just agree to disagree
I already stateted the cowboys got the shaft in that trade in my 1st post and draft day trades happen every year all the time. Young probowler QBs don’t so how do you get equal talent in return. If Cutler wasnt demanding a trade and another team wanted him Denver could ask for the moon. But Cutler won’t play for Denver and all other teams know this. Doesnt matter though, you have your opinions and I have mine let’s just leave it at that cool.
Cool
It’s not like we’ll have to wait long to find out who’s right. And honestly, I’ve never wanted to be wrong more than I do now. If you’re right and the Lions can get him on the cheap then I will happily, HAPPILY eat crow on this subject.
Btw….just thought of a better example. Portis for Champ Bailey. Maybe not 100% equal value, but pretty damn close. I think Denver threw in a draft pick too.
Looked myself
Here’s a smattering of what they think:
“Cutler and scheff for Quinn, Rogers, Clevland #1 next year and a swap of #1’s this year.”
“Cutler, Scheffler, and Marshall to Detroit for Calvin Johnson, the #20, #33, and next years 1st. "
"Jay for Shaub and the Texans #15, #46, and #77”
They openly mock anything less than 3 picks + players for Cutler
Denver
has no leverage whatsoever in a trade. They’ll be lucky to get a first round pick as compensation let alone an extra player. My guess is they’ll settle for a 2nd round pick. They HAVE to get rid of him at this point. He has no interest in being there, he’s not going to show up, and if they want to get something out of him they have to deal him. He’s a talent and very sought after but don’t be surprised if teams aren’t willing to give up much for him.
Actually they do
Denver’s leverage doesn’t come from Cutler wanting to be there or not. It comes from the fact that 6 or more teams will be bidding for him. Don’t be naive. They’re going to start a bidding war to get all that they can. A 2nd round pick for a 25 year old Pro Bowl quarterback? Are you insane?
Thats why I left that blog
They keeping thinking they will walk away from this trade as the winners think they will get multiple 1s round picks this year and next.
Calvin Johnson is Untouchable
Hope they realize that. Besides Denver doesnt need a WR…
When angry, count four; when very angry, swear. ~Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson, 1894
possible trade
I think the only way the lions could trade for cutler is to offer pick 1.20, drew stanton and a 3rd rounder. If they want more then screw it and deal with what you got. Although i really wouldn’t want to give up that much i could see it happening IF the Broncos decide they like what they have seen from Simms and like what they have scouted on Stanton form college.
youre nuts.
I would love to see Stanton go somewhere that can start him. Giving him up along with both first rounders and a 3rd round (first in the 3rd remember), that’s too much. Take one of those 1st day picks away, maybe thats feasible.
Last I heard from a reliable source was, that 3 way trade rumor again with the browns as the third, that might be a real possibility, and we would unload the 1st pick for the Brown’s 5.
I think the Broncos
will get whatever they can, the most they can, for Cutler. They’ll get a first, if not two first, rounders out of someone desperate. Then they’ll use their 1-12 pick (or one from the trade) to take Mark Sanchez. There will be a bidding war and I hope the Lions don’t lose their shirts for him.
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." ~Groucho Marx
If Detroit give up more than 2 picks for Cutler...
I’ll be pissed. Even more so, I’ll be annoyed if we give up more than 1. Sure, this guy is young, talented & has played in a Pro-Bowl but I just don’t want us losing what could be young starters for our team. I sorta hope he goes to Tennessee or somewhere like that but it wouldn’t surprise me if he ends up a Bear.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
They wont give up much
If the lions are trying to get cutler they will offer #20th pick and culpeper. If Denver dosent want culpeper they will offer #20 pick and a 4th rd. pick . Any thing more than that would be millen like.
again another person not ...
thinking we have no 4th rd pick
Mayhew earning his money this year.
No matter what happens Mayhew will have to take his shots.
If the Lions get Cutler some will say we gave up to much.
If the Lions don;t get Cutler some will say we didn’t offer enough.
by Runnin' Rebel on Apr 1, 2009 8:03 PM EDT reply actions
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