POD Community Mock Draft: Pick No. 20
by Sean Yuille on Apr 10, 2009 3:00 PM EDT
in NFL Draft
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With the 20th pick of the 2009 Pride of Detroit Community Mock Draft, the Detroit Lions select Ohio State linebacker James Laurinaitis.
Here is DrewsLions' reasoning for the pick:
I know that this pick is of great interest to all of you on a number of levels, so I will take you through my thought process and be as thorough in my explanation as I can. As I began researching this pick, I realized that it was not going to be an easy task. I can see the Lions' interest in trading down here. But I don't have that luxury. So I began the task of whittling down my list of prospects until I came up with three that I seriously considered taking: Vontae Davis, Andre Smith and James Laurinaitis.
I need to say that my pick was set to be Peria Jerry. I even had the write up done, because I REALLY didn't think Tampa Bay or Denver would take him. I initially did not like Jerry as the pick, but the more research I did on him, the more I liked him. Yes, he was a little undersized, but his athleticism was second to none - just wanted to make that clear.
Both Andre Smith and Vontae Davis are very tempting options as well. But with both, the same problem enters the picture - character. Both guys are talented, no real doubts there. Actually, on talent alone, both of these guys should have been top 15 picks. But the Lions have been burned by these types of picks so many times in the past. I think if I was picking for any other contender team in the league, I would consider either of these players. But with the Lions, risk-taking is simply not an option. Even so, I feel like there is no player here that is not a little bit of a risk.
In a full 33-pick mock draft I did for this site a few months ago, I had taken Laurinaitis at number 20. I have to admit my feelings on Laurinaitis have changed a little since then. Because the MLB is arguably the most important position on a 4-3 defense, I think if you draft a guy in the first round you need to feel certain he is the long-term answer. Although I have to admit that I am not 100% confident that he is a star, I think that Laurinaitis is a definite upgrade at the position. If I knew I could get him at pick 25 or so and pick up another draft pick in a trade, this becomes a very easy decision. But even here at 20, I think there is value in the pick and an instant upgrade at the position. He has the size and speed of the prototypical middle linebacker. He's smart and I think under the tutelage of Schwartz and Cunningham, he should flourish. Two other players I briefly considered were Robert Ayers and Darius Butler. Although if we had not picked up Buchanon in free agency, I might have taken a chance and picked Davis.
Bottom line is that the Lions have needs everywhere on the defense and I just wasn't willing to take anyone with serious question marks. I wanted to get a good player with value at this particular slot and I felt confident enough in Laurinaitis to believe he would be a good player for the Lions. Will he be great... I don't know. I'm sure this selection won't satisfy everyone. I honestly wish that a better situation presented itself as well. But that's how the draft goes. It's about adapting and getting the best mix of talent and need on the board. I think I did.
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Solid player, good pick
could’ve waited on the MLB with the depth at that position in this draft, but he is a definite upgrade over Paris. He isn’t flashy, but just a good, solid football player. Nice job, you’re batting .500 so far ;-)
It's up in the air right now
I’d like to, but this is a much more work than I ever thought it would be. We’ll see I guess. At the very least I’ll let DrewsLions do the Lions’ second-rounder.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
I've got 2 pros and one con
Pro 1) The pick on it’s own merit is good because MLB is a need and Laurinaitis seems like a talent worthy of pick 20 that cannot be had at pick 33 (might happen but cannot count on it)
Pro 2) Because of Sims and Peterson, MLB needs to be a smart, instinctive, leadertype, suretackler more than a sideline to sideline dominator. He seems like a perfect fit for that.
Con 1) Linebacker is 2/3 full with pro bowl talent. This makes it 3/3 full (one hopes pick 20 is pro bowl material). Maybe ‘elite starter’ is a better label than ‘probowl’. Anyways, being 3/3 at one position is probably not as good as getting an ‘elite starter’ on a segment we have 0 or 1 currently (Dline, Dbacks, OLine, WR/TE, even RB).
Do most people agree that 3 great linebackers don’t do much good if they don’t have a decent front line and back line to compliment them?
by HoorayForEverything on Apr 10, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions
Great comments, but...
who is there at 20 worthy of the pick at d-line? Ayers? Maybe. But, I’m nervous about guys that spring up after combine workouts. Not sure if he’s as good as advertised. Like I said, Peria Jerry would have been the pick, but the draft never works out like you want it to. Would you have rather had me take a guy like Heyward-Bey? I’d have gotten massacred on here for the pick. I never really looked at any offensive players here other than Andre Smith.
Who would you have taken, Hooray?
Id say that
Lauranitis is a good pick. He really isn;’t a reach, but he still more than likely would have slipped to you in the second round.
But who else do you grab here? I guess you already grabbed the LT, so you don’t need that. Josh Freeman might be a choice, but you had a chance to draft Stafford or Mark Sanchez, both are better than Freeman as prospects.
As You could also grab Duke Robinson or Alex Mack in the second round, thsi would really shore up the O-Line…….But they really aren’t gonna be blocking for anyone tho….
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 10, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh....
I guess I was looking at too many mock drafts. YOu don’t have the full board anywhere so I didn’t know.
Still should grab Alex Mack or Duke Robinson in round 2 tho…..
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 11, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Laurinaitis
I found more pro than con. I think the pick may be a victim of circumstance with Jerry not available and, like you implied, if V Davis and A Smith were M Jenkins and M Oher to choose from instead, then I argue you go that way because of position, but because the DB and the OT are character risks, and the DT is gone, then Laurinaitis is the pick appropriate for the Lions.
My point was that MLB is a need and not a wasted pick, but I sure wish Jerry, or Oher, or a solid DB presented itself instead.
I guess D Butler is intriguing like you said, but that might be my “Patriots like him so we should too” thinking.
On a completely different subject…with Schwartz wanting to run so much, why aren’t we even entertaining Chris Wells or Donald Brown to provide the 2 headed RB that seems to be the future of the NFL right now? Is it because we see it as a luxury we cannot afford?
And on yet another different subject…you know how SI.com has a section at the bottom that points to a story for each franchise? You’ll never guess what post on what blog happens to be linked there now for the Lions…
by HoorayForEverything on Apr 10, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Good choice..
I think with all the holes that detroit needs to fill a WR wouldnt be the best pick here but i could see Heyward-Bey being a good choice cause it gives either Stafford(if we draft him) or culpepper another target besides calvin. Ive read on a few other sites that some mock drafts have laurinatis slipping to Detroits pick @ No. 33 so if we could get a good DL or another position here we could still get MLB second round. But i still like this pick
by StartStanton5 on Apr 11, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Vontae Davis
is a more logical pick tho. I know you need a MLB, but really you can find one later in the draft.
A guy who has Vontae’s talent is not tho. I don’t know why he has slipped in the draft, but the guy has Top 15 talent, and you are in DIRE need of a CB. Yea, Travis Fisher is solild, but anthony Henry is not, regardless of where he playes.
He is Vernon davis’ brother, so maybe that’s why he’s slipping so character may be a concern…..
Like I said...
Had we not gotten Phillip Buchanon in free agency, I would have probably taken Davis. I still think corner is important and I think a few capable players are there at #33.
Problem with Davis is he’s a headcase from everything I can gather. The “0-16” Lions don’t have the luxury of taking chances on guys with his potential baggage. I’d rather play it a little safe this year and next, then maybe take a chance once our talent base is a little more secure.
Corner is deeper than MLB at this point in time in our draft
Assuming Davis is the next off the board, Darius Butler, Alphonso Smith, and Sean Smith could still be there at No. 33. After Laurinaitis, the next MLB is not nearly as good.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
A DT is more important than a CB
If you take a CB at #33, the DTs [ Brace, Moala, Hood] and OTs[Meredith, Cadogan, Beatty] who could make a difference and start will all be gone. So we will be into the third round trying to pick up either a DT or OT. I’m not even bothering with the impact Guards or Centers[Robinson, Unger, Mack].
I know we can’t fix everything in one draft, but it would be nice to make a good start. That’s why I think it is imperative to trade out of #20 unless we can get either Jerry or Oher. We desperately need more second/third round picks.
I don't disagree with that
That is what the Lions’ thinking will have to be when they make their top 3 picks. They have to hedge their bets so they can wait for positions with more depth until later on in the draft.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
I still think...
Taking the best Guard is better than taking the 4th or 5th best OT. Why not consider a guard over a OT at that point.
Thats what Sean did.
On the sbnation draft.
yeah
and i highly approved i know i have said it alot but i still think backus could be much improved with a steady guard on his side. We haven’t started a guard on the right or left for a entire season in i can’t remember how long.
I voted no.
Lauranitis would probably still be there at 2-1. You took Stafford at 1-1 and now there is no one to protect him. It might be a chance they’ll have to take but my choice for this spot would be Andre Smith. I know the Lions are deficient on the defensive side of the ball and I know Smith has some character issues but Stafford needs protection and Smith would provide that. After 1-20, they can take defense the rest of the way as the offense would be set and ready to kick ass this season.
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." ~Groucho Marx
I agree in part, Jettero...
Smith was intruiging, but I’m not a gambler this season. Too many unknowns with him. Like I said, I we were contenders, I’d take a chance. But not after a winless season. You don’t want to put your future on his shoulders.
At the end of the day, the thought of not having a decent middle linebacker was troubling. More troubling that having to rely on Backus for another season.
Andre Smith
Has slipped way too far in this draft. Originally he was the consensus top LT in the draft. Are we really going to let a few character issues interfere with a top 5 talent slip furthter than 20? The media has hyped up Smith’s issues so much it’s rediculous. You can bet Andre Smith will probably be gone by the Bengal’s 6th pick.
by detpistons3 on Apr 10, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
totally agree
He didnt win the top OL award two years in a row for nothing. And I think hes got some guts for running his forty time shirtless at his pro day, haha! Man that was hilarious
I guess we are going with the info we have.
Remember these are the same NFL teams who are asking Stafford about his parents divorce. Before you invest millions in a guy you better feel comfortable about his ability to handle the pressure and put forth the effort to get better and keep in shape. Based on what Smith has done so far he is not making those coaches and GMs very comfortable.
If this guy does continue on the path he is already setting how stupid will the GM look who selects him?
by NorthLeft12 on Apr 10, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Are the Lions really in a position...
to take a guy in the first round with serious character, weight and laziness issues? I really hope that the Lions are not going to start taking a bunch of risks that don’t pan out. This year is the most important draft in many years for the Lions. These players are the new foundation of this team. Do you feel comfortable building on Andre Smith? RIght now, I don’t.
The fact is
Detroit needs an elite left tackle to keep Stafford off his ass for the next 10 years. With Andre Smith (regarded as a first tier lineman) dropping this far and the next best prospect at Tackle being Eben Britton you jump on him, or Stafford is gonna be eating dirt. You don’t get a young quarterback with an abysmal O-Line or he’s going to bust, no matter how good he is (Joey Harrington anybody?) I understand the Laurinaitis pick but you made an investment in quarterback, you need some insurance not a 2nd or 3rd rd Tackle that might protect Stafford
by detpistons3 on Apr 11, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Believe Me
If Smith falls to the Lions at #20 in the real draft, they’ll be sprinting to hand that draft card to the commish. Smith has talent and the media has been hyping up his character issues like no other. He’s not that bad of a kid but all the experts make him out to be a criminal
by detpistons3 on Apr 11, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree Andre Smith would be the pick
but if he isn’t it doesn’t mean Stafford automatically is on his back. Jeff Backus is an average LT. He’s not the worst in the league. Maybe if he had an elite LG, one of which you could grab in round 2 in Duke Robinson, he wouldn’t have to block 3 players at once. And also since Stafford can move around in the pocket, I think that Backus could do fine with Stafford back there.
Smart drafting is what you need to do. Since you kinda have a LT in place, tho he isn’t elite of course, why not shore up a position of dire need like MLB with Lauranitis. I think Backus would be helped out drastically with an elite LG. If Duke Robinson was as talented a LT as he is a LG, he’d be a Top 10 pick.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 11, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
stafford
sits for the year in my opinion anyway and Culpeeper is a line man in himself (260 pds supposedly form the 290 he wieghed last year).
I voted YES
You surprised me Drew. Your earlier teaser had me expecting an Andre Smith selection. Another tough spot to choose. The real need picks [LT and DT] are big reaches at #20, so filling the MLB with a guy who will be a solid pro like Lauriniatis is fine with me. Yes, that’s coming from the guy who has been beating the drums for a third round MLB [Scott McKillop!] for a few weeks now. Although I think Lauriniatis will be there at #33.
Personally, this situation begs for a trade, and with A. Smith available I think the Lions would be very likely to get one done.
I agree...
if offered a trade, I would have happily moved down five picks or so. I think the #33 pick will actually be an easier decision to make.
If the Lions could swing a trade in real life
And it isn’t out of the realm of possibilities at No. 20, then that would definitely be the best case scenario. They could still get a starter and the chance to acquire an extra pick (I would only want them to move down a few spots. Not out of the first-round or something.)
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
Right
Say, move down to 25 or so. Between that and the #33 pick, they should be able to get two more impact players and pick up a 4th or 5th round pick for the move. That would be best case scenario if the real board plays out like ours did.
Agreed
Must trade down at least once in this draft.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 10, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
#20 = TWO SECOND ROUNDERS or more
There are a lot of excellent second round players that could step in and start for the Lions. Especially at the DT and DB positions. There are some good O linemen too. The third round has a lot of ILBs that could solve our MLB problem.
Trading down....
Look for the Lions to trade the 1st pick in Round 3 (first pick of day 2) and drop a few spots and probably pick up a 5th rounder. Very similar to what they did last year in moving up to grab Kevin Smith. Pick 3A has an unbelievable amount of value to teams who have had all night to study the board.
Yea..
I would like that move too considering that they could still get MLB at the position they move down to plus pick up a 4th since they dont have one would be a smart move
by StartStanton5 on Apr 11, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I like the idea of having Lauranitis but...
With taking Matt Stafford no. 1 you NEED a left tackle to protect him or it pointless to invest $35 million garunteed in a QB. That was one of the main reasons I didnt wanna draft Stafford number one because that SHOULD force a LT pick with the 20th and then that consequently would leave us without a defensive player drafted in the first round and I really do think we have greater need of playmakers on the Defense rather than on Offense. So yes I like the pick but not when we took Stafford 1 and now we dont have a LT to protect him, whats the point drafting Stafford #1 if hes gonna be on his keester all the time. The top 5 tackles just wont be there with pick #33 because tackles in the late 1st round is a good value pick and those teams wont be able to resist the available tackles so Detroit wont get one and we NEED a good one. I like taking Eugene Monroe #1, than pick up Lauranitis. Now I like that 1st round combo better. Pick up a DT/DE with the 33rd pick and try and snag a sleeper CB/PR/KR in the later rounds and maybe if a guy like Rhett Bomar is sitting there take him but we got Stanton and Culpepper and I wanna see what they got first before the Lions invest more money into the QB position.
We don't have to take a LT
We will most likely be sitting Stafford in his rookie year so we don’t need to get protection for him this year. Next year we can pick up one of the top 2 ranked tackles.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 10, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Safe pick
Lauranitis is a safe pick and lord know we need them, but with all the cons agaisnt Andre Smith he’s still hard to pass up. My thought is if you take away the combine miss fire and he does his pro-day there wouldn’t be all these charater flaws agaisnt him. " But there are and I take note to this" But to get a LT who was projected a top 5 pick 2 months ago is hard to pass up. He needs help on his pass protecting, but he’s the best run blocker in the group. And our new style is run first right. I can’t diss your choice though I know why you made it. I’m a risk taker though, and Smith could be a huge pick up at #20 or a big bust, no guts no glory.
by Carl Brutananadilewski on Apr 10, 2009 6:46 PM EDT reply actions
You're right, but you still...
have to take into consideration need at this point. You really have to admit that MLB is a bigger need than tackle. If we don’t take Smith, we still have Backus. If we don’t take Laurinaitis, we have… who? Need can’t always drive the pick, but it should play a part in it. I like to try to find the best mix of the two.
No your right you must have yin and yang in the draft, I'm just on the band wagon that
we could find a MLB in the 3rd round.
by Carl Brutananadilewski on Apr 11, 2009 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions
With the 3rd Rd MLB...
you are much less guaranteed a starter. If they take Lauranaitis, he is the starter on day one and treated like such. If they wait until the 3rd round, the talent will fall off quite a bit and you are less likely to find a bonafide starter. Not that you can’t, history just dictates that it’s less likely. Right now, we do have a huge hole at MLB.
I don't agree
We have to get out of this mindset of only the first two rounds have potential immediate starters. I think it depends on the person selected, position to be played, and a lot on the coaches. I don’t think this year is much different than most but there are a number of very good players who will be available in the third round.
I’ll be very disappointed if the Lions don’t get at least one starter out of the third round this year.
by NorthLeft12 on Apr 11, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand that point of view...
and maybe I’m not saying what I really mean. I guess I’m trying to say that typically you can’t chalk up your 3rd rounders to immediately start like you can or should be able to with a first rounder, that’s all. If the guys in the 3rd round were as good of prospects as the guys in the first round, they too would go in the first round. I hope that you are right about getting a starter in the third round. History just dictates that it happens less frequently… that’s all.
Why is Lauranitis a starter?
any more than a guy you’d get in the 3rd round? Here’s 3 – Scott McKillop, Darry Beckworth and Dannel Ellerbe. All three can be just as good as Lauranitis.
Actually, Ellerbe is better. He was slowed down by injuries as was much of Georgia’s defense, but when he played he was all over the field. He is much faster and quicker than lauranitis and Ellerbe may be one of the steals of the draft for whoever gets him (I hope its the Giants in the third round, he’ll back up AP for a year and fill in but then he’ll be the man next year)
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 11, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey, This was my Schtick!
There is also Jasper Brinkley of South Carolina, who before he suffered an injury, was the MLB that Maualuga’s PR department has convinced everyone that Rey is. Brinkley is just as big and even now is faster than Rey the Perfect. Daniel Holtzclaw of Eastern Michigan is another gem who will be available around the fourth or fifth rounds [where the Lions have no picks of course].
My preference is McKillop over Lauriniatis or Maualuga.
But let me say that I would take Lauriniatis over Maualuga in a heartbeat.
by NorthLeft12 on Apr 11, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I still don't agree on that,
Lauranitis is no where near the player Maualuga is. Jasper Brinkley is not bad, but he’s 275 lbs. The Steelers you are not so I doubt he is the second coming of Levon Kirkland. He’d be a better DE than anything.
Lauranitis is a good pick here tho.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 11, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't say that I would ever prefer a player...
that is ranked lower. I’m not sure that makes sense to me. If the Lions have McKillop ranked lower than Laurinaitis and the chance to take both, why would they opt for McKillop? Especially, if there is no one better than Laurinaitis at the #20 pick? Help me out here, guys?
If all three that you mentioned above could be better, why do most scouts and teams (as far as I know) have Laurinaitis ranked higher.
I guess I mean....
McKillop at #65 or #82 over Lauriniatis at #33 or #20 and Maualuga at #20.
At #82 it is a no brainer, at #65 and JL at #33 it is closer, at #65 and either at #20 it is again a no brainer. McKillop every time. I would probably include Ellerbe in that same scenario. As long as Ellerbe was totally sound physically [he did suffer a knee injury I believe].
Brinkley was a monster in the middle for South Carolina in 2006, but suffered a knee injury that wiped out his 2007 season. Not clear if he has completely recovered.
Depending on the other position players the Lions could get at #20 and #33, is what makes this a good strategy.
true
the MLB depth is pretty good in this draft (more than enough reason not to spend $30 Mill guaranteed on Aaron Curry). OT Depth is also pretty good. I know Andre and Jason Smith, Monroe and Oher are the top 4, but guys like Beatty and jamon Meridith are capable of blocking and starting right away (plus again, not $30 Mill tied up and more than enough reason to wait on the LT).
Stafford #1, Lauranitis (Rey Ma if he’s there is still better IMO)
Then in the later rounds, you can probably get either Alex Mack or Duke Robinson at #33. Then later on, you can grab Jamon Meredith for OT or maybe even Andre Caldwell for C. .
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 11, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a big fan of Ellerbe
I’d love him with the first pick in the 3rd. But If JL is there for the taking and Jerry, Oher is off the board, I say take the shot.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 11, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Props to Mayhew
I will say this in my view a sign of a good GM is one who can keep you guessing until a name is called. I wouldn’t be surprised to here Stafford name called or Jason Smith or even Curry. And the best part is he keeps all other GM’s not being able to set there draft in stone by not letting them know what were doing.
by Carl Brutananadilewski on Apr 10, 2009 6:53 PM EDT reply actions
I agree 100% on that
I still think a player will be signed before the draft, but how in the dark we are is great. In the past Millen and Marinelli openly talked draft strategy with the media. This year every time there is a report about the Lions getting close to one player, another report comes out less than 24 hours later contradicting it.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
Given what happened...
I support the Lauranitis pick. However, I would have opted for Andre Smith as well.
The biggest problem, however, was that Stafford was the first pick. This tied your hands for a draft which should allow us to take best player available.
I'll need more explanation on the Stafford point
How does drafting Stafford tie your hands for the rest of the draft? Not sure I follow your logic there. You still take the player that fits need, talent and value for the draft slot. How does Stafford influence the #20 pick aside from not taking another quarterback? Had I taken Curry, then I wouldn’t have needed a MLB, but still needed a quarterback. If I’d taken Jason Smith, I’d still needed both a quarterback and MLB. So, I don’t follow your logic.
I think he is assuming you must get an LT
I was under this assumption too. I do not think it is absolutely essential. I think it is advisable to use either the #20 or #33 on a LT, but I don’t think you have to.
Pick one up in 2010 if you don’t get a good one this year.
Yeah maybe, but I still don't really...
get that philosophy. I’m not sure why you can’t always take best available player with respect to need and impact. The thinking behind this philosophy must go… if you get Stafford, he couldn’t possibly succeed with Backus at tackle. I disagree with that approach. He couldn’t survive behind Backus in Martz’ offense for sure. But at this moment in time, the guards are the biggest liability on our line. Two stout guards would GREATLY improve this line. Backus is not the only problem.
I’ve said many times, that I think Stafford should be given the opportunity to earn the starting role this year. If it’s even close, hand the keys to him for the next three years and throw all your support behind him… treat him like a star and give him all the confidence in the world. If he’s going to be great, he’ll show us those flashed even on a subpar offense. Calvin and Kevin Smith will make him better. Pro bowl quarterbacks are great on good teams and good on bad teams. Stafford should be held to that standard if taken first overall.
You make a good case Drew
And I believe that is what will happen. Even though I prefer him to sit the whole of 2009.
by NorthLeft12 on Apr 10, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Problem..
The only problem i have with letting him sit one year is that we dont get an impact player this year. If we draft him then i think we have to let him start cause culpepper wont teach him anything. Best way for him to learn is to just throw him in there
by StartStanton5 on Apr 11, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
We can't get caught up in...
the game of instant gratification here. The choosing of a quarterback is a long-term investment – like every draft pick made should be. This year is a rebuilding year, so lower your expectations if you honestly think we are going to be contenders. Not that I’m not an optimist or have hope that they do well… I’m just being realistic. Look at the roster – there are still holes everywhere and this year’s draft will not fix all ills. This is not a good team we have here.
Who knows… maybe Schwartz is Lombardi incarnate. Maybe he leads them to the playoffs. I’ll hedge my bet on reality, though. With Stafford, he must be given the time and tools to succeed. They must do the right thing with him. If he’s ready, I say give him the experience now. If he’s not, be patient. It’s the struggle of the fan to temper expectations while rebuilding.
Note on the publishing of picks today...
I decided to not post the third one today to give the Lions’ pick more face time, so to speak. I will resume the normal schedule tomorrow.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
Great Pick
A very nice pick. I see JL being a possibe pro-bowler in future so picking somewhere of his talent is a huge upgrade. I’m also not worried about JL’s fall down the board. It’s mainly due to a bad 40 time but JL’s gamefilm shows a guy who is smart & can tackle, and in the end, that’s what we need from our MLB.
Good pick Drew.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
I really believe . . .
That Laurinaitis’ 40 time has less impact in the Lions’ situation because he will be playing between Julian Petersen and Ernie Sims, a duo that can cover some ground.
by TennesseeYooper on Apr 10, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't get it!
Take a guy at 20 you can get at 33 and this is a great pick? Please!
Two points...
First, absolutely no guarantee that he is there at #33… not with Maualuga off the board early. The Maualuga pick changed everything in this mock.
Second, if you read the write-up… who else would be a great pick? Andre Smith? Maybe if you’re willing to take that risk. Ayers? Maybe, but he looks like a workout warrior to me and I’m very leary of the guys that skyrocket based on combine workouts versus film results.
So enlighten us with who your pick would have been…
TWO POINTS
First, there is no guarnatee who will be there after the first pick, so throw that arguemnt into the dumpster. National Football Post has him at 39, if you want to trade maybes.
Second, Ayers is all combine? 19 sacks and they all occurred at the combine? I do not think so.
I like to get value for my picks and JL would be fine at 33, not at 20!
Your argument is built on assumptions here
Of course there are no guarantees after the first pick – it’s a bit insulting to insinuate that I don’t know that. But you are assuming that MLB will not be a valuable position in this draft. To the contrary, I believe, like our mock draft here, that MLB will be a targeted position by several teams and Maualuga and Laurinaitis will be the top two taken. It’s possible he could slide to #33, but there are more than enough mocks and rankings out there that show Laurinaitis being a top 20 pick.
With Ayers, he might end up being a good player – maybe even worth th #20. As I said above, I was on the fence about him. But there is no denying Laurinaitis’ production in college and with two great defensive coaches on our staff, there’s little doubt he’ll succeed.
I appreciate your argument, but I’m just not sure that you can say with any certainty that JL is not worth the #20 pick and there is no value in that pick. I believe there is value here.
I agree with you Drew, but about his value......
I am struggling a bit with the whole concept of a player’s draft value. The valuation of a player going from college to the NFL is very subjective. In the real world you can’t pick a player within four spots or less of his consensus value [whatever that may be]. The Lions pick at #20 , then at #33. The #20 pick should be looking at all players available that they think could reasonably go between these two spots. With some allowance for reaches or preferences that probably represents about twenty-five to thirty players. Picking any of them would represent good value to me, even if there is a possibility that they could be there at #33.
In Lauriniatis’ case, he could go in the high twenties [Miami or New England or Indy], so you take him unless you are comfortable with your fallback which is in the third round.
That’s why with some of the earlier draft picks some teams without a second round pick should look to a larger group of players if they really want to fill a need. There is not always the opportunity to trade down or teams don’t want to pay the premium to trade up.
by NorthLeft12 on Apr 11, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
HOLD UP!
I am not saying no value, just not enough.
When Maycok say in 2-3 yrs., Ayers will be the best D player taken in the draft, I listen. I have seen him on some boards as high as 12. Nowhere have I seen JL anywhere near that high. He can add in a LB position on a 3-4, or rush the passer from a DT spot.
I don’t know the mocks you are looking at, but the ones I have seen so not support your position.
Id be very afraid of drafting Ayers
Especially since Mayock is saying that.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 11, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Last Time, DE is NOT a Pressing Need
Check out our abysmal Defensive Tackles.
by NorthLeft12 on Apr 11, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
NOW THIS IS THE KIND OF WEAK ARGUMENT WE DON'T NEED!
Yes, Ayers is listed as a DE. But no, he is not limited to DE! As Mayock points out, he can play any of the front 7 positions.
In a 4-3, he can play DT. In a 3-4, he can play LB. Even in the middle.
This is why I like Ayers, versatility!
I do not think Avril and White will be there every down, either. Ayers can give these guys a blow, and vice versa.
Of course, in this mock he looks to be out of the 1st round. I still think JL slips before Ayers does.
I listen to neither,
they’re all idiots.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 11, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I listen to Mayock, too
You might be right on Ayers, but I didn’t feel strongly enough to take him over Laurinaitis, that’s all. Need comes into play, too. I also didn’t feel we needed a DE over a MLB. There’s not much to that argument. At DE we have White and Avril… not great, but the potential to be very good. At MLB, we have no starters or anything resembling a starter right now.
As for the mocks not supporting my claim… you just have to look harder :) They are there. Yes, Laurinaitis is slipping on some mocks and Ayers is climbing on some mocks, so I guess both are worthy picks… how about that?
Fair enough!
I really doubt Ayers will be there in two weeks anyway!. I would rather have a DT, but this mock has the best two going awfully high. I certainly do not like the mocks that have the Lions taking two O players in the 1st round. That is the scenario that scares me the most.
I like this pick
Laurinaitis has the potential to be a fantastic MLB who will almost certainly be a huge upgrade at the position in his first year.
Also, I’ve liked this guy ever since I found out his dad is Animal from the Legion of Doom/Road Warriors (for those of you who were wrestling fans in the ‘80s and ’90s).
It’s almost enough for me to overlook the fact that he’s an Ohio State product. Almost.
HA..
Its funny u mention his dad was a wrestler cause now he does the talent for wwe and wanted his son to join. But he’ll make millions more playing for the Lions
by StartStanton5 on Apr 11, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
His dad would of killed him if he joined the wwe
Vince McMan walked over and shook his hand and said he would like to talk to him about his future, his dad amost ripped Vince hand off, said his future was in the nfl, cameros caught the action 2-3 years back. Vince is not liked among wrestlers, he’s a slave driver.
by Carl Brutananadilewski on Apr 11, 2009 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Great pick
Only downside I see in Laurinaitis is his alma mater. Otherwise I think he’s a guy that could be a great MLB for 10+ years in this league. Combine 40 times definitely don’t guarantee NFL success. He would have probably been a top 10 pick last year.
I love this pick . . .
MLB is a huge hole. I think, a lot like the quarterback position, that this is a position where it is imperative to be long-term. If we hang our hat on defense, and I’m guessing under Schwartz it is more than likely we will, we must have a cerebral guy who will work his tail off in the middle. Laurinaitis played in the Big Ten, he knows how to stop the run. The biggest learning curve here is going to be coverage, but this isn’t the Tampa 2, and Schwartz’s mantra has been to play to each individual’s strength.
I’ve liked this pick since the end of the season. The only apprehension I fell comes from the recent lack of dominance (I wanted to say success, but that doesn’t fit the expectation here) by Buckeye MLBs. It’s kind of like UM running backs, great in school, but a craps shoot in the NFL.
by TennesseeYooper on Apr 10, 2009 9:42 PM EDT reply actions
The only reason I push for OT is...
For year and years and years I have seen one common thing in Detroit Lions football: the quarterback laying on the ground with some clueless looking offensive lineman looking around like “Was I suppose to block that guy?” So I’m trying to have this “Do it right the first time” attitude in my drafting strategy for my Lions. I get your point that Lauranitis would be an upgrade since Lenon barely counts as a MLB but Backus doesnt have the footwork anymore to play the quickfooted LT position. Also we need a passblocker more than a run blocker. Michael Oher could be around if we wait for OL but im reading hes more of a mauler like Gosder(and I heard he cant read…) and I know we “are gonna run the ball and stop the run” but we need some balance. I just wanna really try this “build it in the trenches” strategy because its the only strategy the Lions havent tried yet.
It's a good pick.
We fill a position of need (some believe our biggest need) and we are also picking the best player available. You can argue for smith, and I agree that Andre Smith would have been a great pick, but MLB is a bigger need. Like DL said, if we don’t pick up a MLB, who starts?
I don’t think we HAVE to pick an OT if we get Stafford, but it might help him develop faster or at least look better earlier on. MLB and Laurinaitis however is a HUGE upgrade in a position of need. This isn’t a one year turn around situation, we aren’t Miami or Atlanta, and we can’t fill every hole in this draft. So we take the best we can get.
I understand the arguments for Davis and Smith, but I think you got it right DL.
i like the MLB pick
but I think he would be available at 33. We need to take the best player available if Andre Smith is there he is our pick hands down. He is not a bigger need than MLB because Andre Smith was supposed to be the #1 pick and he has fallen so with our tough coaching staff I think we can whip him into shape and make him a great LT for many years to come.
What you want Seargent Major Marinelli Back?
That was his whole schtick when he was hired, that he was going to instill discipline and toughness in the Lions. This ideal of coaches who inspire their teams to run through brick walls is way overblown in the NFL. The coaches who are successful are intelligent, good judges of talent, use the players in ways to make the player and the team successful, and are consistently credible.
If the Lions have to spend time baby sitting Smith to get him to stay in shape, forget him. There are lots of other players with slightly less talent that actually want to do the best they can. Draft them.
Yep, I agree North
For at the very least this season, the Lions just need to shy away from the potential headcases like Smith. He might prove everyone wrong, but why take the risk? I’d vote for the slightly less talented versus the lack of desire. Desire to play is something that you can’t coach – like you said, Marinelli proved that you simply cannot will a player to play well that doesn’t already have the ingrained desire.
i would say..
the coordinators need to be good talent scouts and top minds for play calling and player selection but postional coaches need to be motivators. I agree marinelli was a horrible HC but he was hired fasta a DL coach again for a reason.
I think this is the problem with Stafford #1.
Now at #20 you have to take your MLB because Maualuga is most likely gone and the talent drop off after the top 3 is pretty big. There are some names being floated like Sintim, Beckwith, and Joesph but I think they are all just 2 down LB projects. You absolutely must come out of this draft with a starting MLB because in reality, they don’t have one on the roster. You could resign Paris but it speaks volumes that nobody has given him an offer yet. I saw a mock on NFL Network last night that had Maualuga going #16 to SD and Lauranitis to DEN at #18. This would be devestating to the Lions.
If you take your biggest need first then it opens you up to taking the best player available or even trading down at #20 because you have already gotten the one position you MUST fill in this draft. I have contended all along that Stafford is a luxury because he will not help the team this year. Long term, sure. Probably an upgrade to what is on the roster now. Could you wait and pick up a 4th year QB next year that could come in right away and play? That is probably the Million dollar question. I think you could.
I disagree about the MLB Devastation
The only way we could be devastated by an MLB this draft is if we draft Curry at #1 or try and move up from #20 to get Maualuga.
gttj, A starting long term QB a luxury? For teams that don’t want to make the playoffs that would be true. For any team that is serious about winning on a regular, consistent basis, it is a must.
There are plenty of MLBs fully capable of starting from game one in the NFL for the Detroit Lions. They are fully physically ready, they may need some time to improve parts of their game to be solid pro starters.
Don’t get caught in this mindset that only the top two guys [as rated by people who are wrong more often than not] can do the job. That is a fallacy.
by NorthLeft12 on Apr 12, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
???
How exactly would we be devastated at MLB if we chose Curry #1?
An 0-16 cannot afford the luxury of drafting a player #1 overall and having him sit on the bench for a year to learn. How about we get some players that can help from Day 1. Haven’t we had enough projects drafted the last few years? And yet you want another one at #1?
So let’s draft a QB that needs, by most accounts, a year to develop and a MLB “that may need some time to improve”? Unreal.
Paris Lenon is 6’2" 235lbs…I’d say that was physically ready. Was he a playmaker? No. A difference maker? No. Solid? Maybe. You think any of the MLB’s later in the draft are going to be better than Paris? I don’t see it. Who were you thinking btw?
The thing to keep in mind...
is that at the end of this draft, we are still going to have holes on the roster. I do agree that not having a good MLB option is a tough one. But everything being equal, we have so many need positions as long as the player ends up being a long-term contributor to the team, the pick will be a success. Wherever we decide to go through the first three rounds will still leave us with holes. That’s just a sad fact due to the extreme roster rot with this team.
I think you limit
Ayers with the idea that he is only a DE. As Mayock pointed out, in some schemes he can be a DT. In others, an LB!
Look, someone has to get picked at 33. I think the odds are greater that JL is there instead of Ayers.
But I really hate the idea of no D player picked with one of the 2 1st rounders!
lauranitis available at #33?
i like the pick but i think that he might be available at #33. there’s no way to know for sure but if he’s still on the board at #20 there’s a good chance he’ll still be around at #33. i think DLine would be a better pick here.
Not sure how you come to that conclusion?
If he’s still there at twenty, what keeps the next thirteen teams from taking him? Don’t get your logic here. There are teams like the Colts picking between us that have a MLB need.
Also, of course a D-Line pick would be great, but like I stated in my post above (explicitly, I might add), there was no one there for the taking… maybe Ayers. But again, not sold on him. So what great D-Lineman do you see sitting there at twenty that I am completely missing? Back up your claim, KingDaddy!
Not that this counts for much...
But I’ve seen quite a few mocks that have Laurinaitis dropping into the 2nd round. Doesn’t mean he will, just means it’s a definite possibility.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 12, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
ok.......
Well, I don’t have any hard evidence, my calls to the GM’s of the teams have not been returned. My point was, Laurinitus’ stock is slipping after the combine. I think he is a good player but I think that taking him at #20 would be too high. As for DL that might be available, here are a few:
perria jerry….
ayers…
larry english….
tyson jackson…
sen’derick marks
of course if they get laurinitus @ #20 and one of these guys at #33 it’s all the same.
by kingdaddylions on Apr 14, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
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