As we hear it, Stafford is telling his former Bulldog teammates that he’ll be the pick, and that he’ll receive more than $40 million, guaranteed, under the contract that the team will pay him.
Stafford is characterizing the move as a "done deal."
Regardless of the fact that I don't want the Lions to draft Stafford, the fact that he is going to get that much guaranteed money is proof of why the NFL needs a rookie wage scale. It is absolutely ridiculous for a team to pay that much to an unproven player.
ProFootballTalk.com - Stafford Telling Teammates He’ll Be A Lion
6 months ago
Sean Yuille
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WOW
40 mill is ludacris. I know none of us are paying these guys, but the fact that he makes more than nearly all the NFL QB’s is nuts. I mean, he may end up being the best QB in the game for all we know, but he also may end up mediocre or injury prone and ineffective his whole career.
There needs to be a wage scale like basketball. The average NFL career is much shorter, but there needs to be a limit on this crap. This guy should not be payed this much regardless of how great of a prospect he is.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 13, 2009 7:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just think of it this way...
Matthew Stafford will be guaranteed more money than Joey Harrington, David Carr, and Ryan Leaf combined.
by n4ry4 on Apr 13, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oy...vey
It’s good 2 know sum1’s actually gettin a job from Ford, they’ll just lay off & buy out another 100,000 people, They need 2 swindle Jay Peters away from Buff. MayB the can swing Andre Smith w/ the 20th, &/or grab Herman Johnson or Duke Robinson. Idk hopefully they can pick sum1 n the middle or mayB bring back the only other guy, besides ES, that was tackling anybody last year Lennon. I’d still like 2 c them get PAt White, as an allpurpose guy.
by LTownDown on Apr 13, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I predict
Pat White goes to Dallas with one of there 11 picks
by Runnin' Rebel on Apr 13, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at it this way
I don’t know how much was guaranteed, but Harrington’s rookie contract was for 54 mil, and Charlie Batch’s extension nade his total 31 mil, and that stayed brutally on the salary cap for years. WCF’s money, not mine.
by dylan415 on Apr 13, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: WOW
No player deserves to make millions of dollars for playing a sport that takes 3 hours out of their week. All pro athletes are overpaid! But why? Entertainment value? No player is worth millions in “entertainment value.” If they suck on any given day, they still get paid the big bucks. Pro athletes should be paid based on their performance level. They play well and win the game, pay’em. If they suck, turn the ball over, and lose the game, they don’t get paid, or get paid drastically less. Plain and simple. You want to provide a player with some incentive to win, well there you go! Pay’em when they perform well, don’t pay’em when they suck. Maybe that will light a fire under their butts to perform to the best of their abilities in every game they play.
by rmh820 on Apr 14, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If this is true
Then get is over with and just sign the kid, little pricey for me.
by Carl Brutananadilewski on Apr 13, 2009 7:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow
$10 million more than an MLB and the argument seems to be that he should sit for a year. Sounds like money well spent to me.
by WBL on Apr 13, 2009 7:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
But considering $30 mill
for a MLB, who is not only switching positions from OLB but also making more than Ray Lewis……..
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 13, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One bad idea....
Doesn’t make another bad idea a good one.
by damnitdamnitdamnit on Apr 13, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya but...
he woould eventually takeover Peterson’s spot, when he gets 2 old, which is not that far off most likely. & if he’s anything like Lewis, I hoped he’d B the next Spielman, they were good back in those days…ahh the Sanders years…
by LTownDown on Apr 13, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and if he gets this much
he isn’t sitting for a year. Not with Daunte Culpepper eating all the footballs.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 13, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So we can
have David Carr and Joey Harrington all over again. Great.
by WBL on Apr 13, 2009 8:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Keep up the optimism!
Guy hasn’t taken a snap yet… geez. He’s already a bust in your mind, huh?
We gotta give the kid the benefit of the doubt here. If indeed the Lions are taking Stafford – a) he’s probably not getting $40MM, maybe more like $35M (still a lot, I know) and b) the Lions think he is the absolute real deal and are sold on him being a great player. Keep that in perspective. Do you really think that the Lions – coming off an 0-16 season – are going to throw caution to the wind and just say “what the heck, let’s piss off the fans and grab a quarterback that will bust”. C’mon, keep a little optimism that Stafford might just be a good player. That ever occur to you? Can’t put a price tag on becoming a contender. Well, maybe… how about $35M?
by DrewsLions on Apr 13, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we draft him
I will be optimistic and accept it grudgingly. My problem just stems from the fact that we are again stressing offense to the detriment of our defense as I noted down below. If we take him, we will play him hoping that his body and mind will hold up. In the meantime, we will have to draft two offensive players with our first three picks (we will need to draft and O-lineman too to protect him). Which means again, we will have to hope that we can fill those gigantic holes in our defense with later round picks. To me it just seems backwards. Strengthen our strong side of the ball and let the weak side wither more.
by WBL on Apr 14, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Needs are needs...
whether they are on offense or defense. We were 0-16 last year, meaning… we have a crappy offense and an even crappier defense. We need help on both sides of the ball and will not fill every hole in one year – it’s just not gonna happen.
I like that you will “accept it grudgingly”. That sounds positive. I’m not saying you need to do cartwheels if they pick the guy, just don’t stack the chips against him before he takes a snap, that’s all.
by DrewsLions on Apr 14, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you worry...
When we pick him, I will be right back on here bragging about my support for/ defense of him against all those nay-sayers like yourself and NL12. :) Damn short term memory.
by WBL on Apr 14, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll believe it when I see it...
…and if I see it, I’ll lose all faith in Maywand for shelling out that kind of money for Stafford.
That said, I don’t put an ounce of faith in what Mike “Anonymous Source” Florio or his PFT cronies have to say.
by AZ Yooper on Apr 13, 2009 8:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
PFT has always been and will always be a garbage source that rarely backs up their stories with facts. I’ll believe it when a real news source prints it.
by handsomerob1 on Apr 14, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If He Gets 40 Mil.....
…..He has to play right away…..No way he gets that kinda money and sits…..Id be pissed if he isnt starting week 1 making that money…..Thats ridiculous
by BennieBladesFan on Apr 13, 2009 8:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Also.....
…….I for one and I think a lot of other people in MICHIGAM wont stand for a qb making 40 mil and not starting in this economy!!!!
by BennieBladesFan on Apr 13, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
so, does that mean we can stop saying that we’ll sit him for a year as I keep hearing people say? We’re gonna throw him to the wolves and hope is body and psyche can take it. This also means that we’ll have to either 1. reach for a 2nd tier tackle at 20 to hopefully help protect him or 2. take an OG such as Unger at 33. So instead of building a defense, which is our biggest need, we have to draft two offensive players with our top 3 picks then hope to patch the gigantic holes in our D with the remainder. Sweet.
by WBL on Apr 13, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Throw him to the wolves day 1, get the bust over with sooner rather than later
If he’s worth $40 million, he ought be able to play like a $40 million player.
I don’t care if it’s counterproductive. The harder he falls the less likely we are to blow this kind of money on an unproven rookie QB again.
Or, if he’s really worth this kind of money, let’s get some playing time out of him.
by n4ry4 on Apr 13, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would think...
…but the Lions aren’t keen on learning from past mistakes.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
by Twon82 on Apr 14, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good strategy...
Then we can waste it on such outstanding free agent QBs as Scott Mitchell, Jon Kitna, Daunte Culpepper, …. or such great defensive draft picks as Chris Claiborne, Terry Fair, Bryant Westbrook, Luther Elliss, Bennie Blades [sorry BBF, but a #3 pick should be a major playmaker not a solid starter], and the infamous Reggie Rogers. I did not include Reggie Brown here because he looked very good until that career ending injury.
The bottom line is that Detroit has drafted pretty horribly over the last thirty years, outside of Billy Sims [#1], Barry Sanders[#3], Calvin Johnson[#2], Robert Porcher[#26], Herman Moore[#10], and Lomas Brown[#6] our first round picks have been horrible. That is six good picks out of thirty. A .200 average. Yeecchhh!
by NorthLeft12 on Apr 14, 2009 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Don't Understand
Why the NFL hasn’t done something about this already. Why does it have to be like that, where the #1 pick gets so much money. I mean he will be the highest paid player on the team. That just makes the rest of the team not like you already and puts more pressure on them to do good. I don’t understand it.
by lionsfan22 on Apr 13, 2009 8:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why do you think the owners opted out...
of the CBA? This will be one of the top things on the table. Goodell will get the rookie salary cap and block all the garbage that the agents do to work around the current slotting system. That I am sure about.
by gotothejoe on Apr 13, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will be too late to help us this year
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
by Sean Yuille on Apr 13, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
worst GM of all-time, Millen
worst record of all-time, 0-16
worst rookie contract of all-time, Stafford #1
any other records we’ve set recently that I’m forgetting?
by n4ry4 on Apr 13, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has any team had the first pick two years in a row?
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
by Sean Yuille on Apr 13, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be great we could blow it on Bradford
by Runnin' Rebel on Apr 13, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another First
Draft two QBs #1 in consecutive years. Another record no one can touch.
by Runnin' Rebel on Apr 13, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol
Millen would approve.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
by Sean Yuille on Apr 13, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Bengals did in the Mid 90's
Dan Wilkinson and KiJana Carter were the picks. I can’t remember which years. I think 94 and 95.
by James L on Apr 14, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also the Browns
1999 and 2000. Tim Couch and Courtney Brown.
by James L on Apr 14, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And as I search through the NFL draft history
I find that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers managed to do it twice. ‘76 & ’77 and ’86 and’ 87. The Chicago Cardinals in ’39 & ’40 and the Philadelphia Eagles in ’36 & ’37. That looks like it.
One interesting side note, The Colts and the Cowboys went back and forth with #1 picks from ’89 to ’92. (four years straight)
by James L on Apr 14, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If this is true then...
…I would consider drafting someone else. Like some said over at PFT, I bet the Lions told him “here’s what we’re willing to pay you. Now, keep your mouth shut until the draft”. If they did, and he obviously can’t, take Sanchez, one of the OT’s or Curry instead. For that amount of money, the kid should start right away but now you have to question his maturity.
Too much money on a big gamble. Another Ryan Leaf in the making.
"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." ~Groucho Marx
by Jettero2112 on Apr 13, 2009 9:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How on earth...
did you get a video of me reading this article?
by damnitdamnitdamnit on Apr 13, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
by Sean Yuille on Apr 13, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course....
we all think the money is ridiculous…. the only person that doesn’t is the player and his agent…. but it’s the way the league has been going for years now…. I personally can’t wait till they fix it, but it’s obviously not going to happen this season… so don’t think about it…. there’s nothing you can do about it. yes it hurts your team, but really this is the only thing not good about going 0-16, so maybe it’ll be a deterrent for repeating our complete ineptitude… Who ever we pick will be over paid, and from what I hear if the lions just don’t make a pick until number 2 or 3, and let other teams draft in front of them, then there will just be a holdout, because the pick will demand number one pick money… it’s broken, we all know, it…. just focus your energy on getting the pick right… and if it’s a quarterback, we BETTER sit him for a year, because it’s the only way to get ANY thing back on our investment… and he better have his own coach, who spends all day of every day coaching him up…. but unfortunately our history has almost no coaching up of players in it… so it’ll be an epic fail most likely anyway…. take a OT, be safer, He can start right away…. protect whoever we have at the QB position
by FeelingBlu on Apr 13, 2009 9:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I give no credence to an article that begins with as we hear it?
Who did you hear it from, one of the guys at the local tavern?
Maybe it was your aunt Bobbie Sue down in Muncey Alabama.
Hell as I hear it from the folks at POD Curry is telling his pet poodle he’s gonna be the pick and get a 50mil signing bonus. Jason Smith is telling his 3rd grade teacher he’s the pick. Yep anyone that starts an article with as we hear without naming who they heard it from is probally DEAF & DUMB
by Runnin' Rebel on Apr 13, 2009 9:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Only the negative?
Where’s DrewsLions when you need a little optimism for this pick? Am I the only one that isn’t surprised? If we are picking Stafford, then he is going to get 1st pick QB kind of money. Let’s have some faith that our new staff has made the right assessment and welcome the kid with open arms. He hasn’t done anything to disappoint yet, so lets try to be a good natured fan base until he actually does flop. He’s got all the tools to be our franchise quarterback for years to come. It’s not the pick that I would have made, but I’m going to be excited about it until I’m given a reason not to.
by MoTown Lions on Apr 13, 2009 10:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I'm right here to help you out!
You’ve got it right. We have no choice but to put our faith in the powers that be. We have to hope that the scouts have looked at all the guys at the top, given their recommendations and now Mayhew makes the decision based on what is best for the Lions long-term. This whole instant gratification schtick is getting so old. No one has any patience. Most of these guys (Curry included) could take some time to become solid pro players.
We all know the rookie system is bogus, but let’s not waste our breath complaining about Stafford getting paid. It’s the same thing every year – i.e. we already knew he was going to make this type of money, so let’s keep the shock and awe to a mininum. Maybe they’ll change the system someday, who knows? Probably will be a sticking point with the new CBA. But it’s not worth all the complaining.
As I’ve mentioned about 23,435 times over the last few months, not a single soul frequenting this site knows whether Stafford will bust or not. But I can already hear the collecting groans of the Lions faithful when Stafford gets selected. Has anyone aside from me and a handful of other posters really considered what it might do for the Lions if he’s a good quarterback? It seems ridiculous that I have to ask that question considering he is probably in the top ten of EVERY NFL team’s draft board. If he’s a good quarterback, we’ll have something that hasn’t existed in my lifetime… a chance to be a perennial contender for the next ten years. Absolutely no one will be complaining about his salary then.
I’m getting tired of having to defend every Stafford-related post or at least feeling like I have to defend it. But I defend it because I feel that the attacks on the pick are unfounded and a bit ridiculous. I think Stafford should be the pick, but I also think several other players are deserving of the pick as well and I would be happy to see Curry, Smith or Monroe in a Lion’s uniform. This “hate-all-things-Stafford” mentality is getting just plain boring and is so narrow-minded.
My charge for all of you is just to simply concede that it’s possible – just simply possible – that Stafford could significantly help this team and be a great choice for the Lions. If you can’t concede that simple point, than you’re not objectively looking at Stafford.
by DrewsLions on Apr 13, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you prepared for the assault you may face on draft day Drew
I suspect that many fans who don’t frequent this site will come on and complain, are you prepared to defend Stafford from them. I know I’ll be sitting on the fence, like I usually do.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 13, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I can see it coming
You know, I am getting tired of defending the pick. Maybe the Lions shouldn’t take Stafford for the simple fact that Lions fans seem to be ready to throw the poor guy under the bus before he even takes a snap. That just really, really irritates me. That’s why I defend the pick so much… because I can’t stand when people close their minds and hate the pick without ever considering the benefits if it works out.
Truth be told, I’ll be just as happy with Curry, Smith or Monroe. I think the Lions are in a great position because all of the guys at the top look pretty solid. Yes, Stafford included.
I might just go AWOL on draft day.
by DrewsLions on Apr 13, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please don't go AWOL
It’ll be better with you here, plus it’ll be fun.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 14, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And don't worry
I’m too far away to hunt you down. :)
But if you hear a large groan when the Lions draft Stafford that rumbles the walls in the Detroit area… that’ll be me, here in Seattle… expressing my happiness…
But again, I’ll root for the Lions anyways. I may not agree, but I’ll never stop supporting.
by WBL on Apr 14, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way...
I just want to say that I love the passion on your side, actually all sides. This sight would be sooooo boring if we couldn’t argue like this.
What fun would it be if everyone agreed?
by WBL on Apr 14, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will not disown the franchise for the pick
but the money issue…and not complaining over it…I’m gonna stretch and quote Edmond Burke:
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
So I think pitching a bitch is justified. The fact that Ford is going to be paying this salary after accepting billions in handout/bailout money is a sad reflection on the state of the country, the world, and the time we live in
by MattyZ on Apr 13, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's just football, so I think...
you’re putting too much stock in the whole NFL to real life economy thing. Don’t get me wrong, people have it rough all over the country, but the top pick gets paid well every single year. Everyone gasps at the contract initially, then forgets about it. You didn’t hear an uproar in Washington when Haynesworth got his money. The fans are not going to revolt against Snyder because he’s paying his players ridiculous sums of cash. I just think you’re reading too deeply into this. From another more optimistic perspective, Stafford might actually give people something to cheer about in the Detroit area.
by DrewsLions on Apr 13, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure enough
I’d just gotten wind of the newest NFL scandalous player and was thinking a little self righteous. I do think it’s a shame to spend the money on an unproven player but yeah, it’s a bit out there. I did call it a stretch with the quote.
by MattyZ on Apr 13, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haynesworth has made good plays in the NFL though....
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
by Twon82 on Apr 14, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His best years are behind him
Complete bust of a contract, guaranteed. No way the dude brings it like he did the last couple of years with a fat contract like that now.
by handsomerob1 on Apr 14, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"No one has any patience."
All Lions fans have patience in large amounts my friend!
by damnitdamnitdamnit on Apr 14, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats true
.. i stay in Steeler city .. i told them every Sunday .. you wait till this years daft..
but i’ve been saying that ever since barry and herman.. ahhhhhhhhhh the good ol years
by A. ROBINSON on Apr 16, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You make a good point...
…one that has been made before. I guess I’ve just been closed-minded to it.
I strongly disagree that Stafford should be the pick. This is no secret. I think he’s got a big, fat BUST written on his forehead. That said, I will cheer for him loudly if he’s our QB, because that’s exactly what he’ll be—our QB. Hell, I’ll probably even buy his jersey.
The Stafford defenders are right…being skeptical about the pick is one thing, but condemning him before he takes a snap is something totally different. That’s not what being a fan is, and I like to consider myself one hell of a Lions fan.
by AZ Yooper on Apr 14, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not gonna put to much stock in this until it's confirmed
$40 mil is ridiculous, every knows it. The sooner we have a rookie salary cap the better but, like Sean said, we can’t be helped this year.
With this sort of investment, I don’t see Stafford sitting thw whole year. He may sit some of it, but not all. If that’s the case, I just hope he has the mental and physical toughness to handle himself. And being a Lions fan, I’m an optimist, so I agree with MoTown Lions, until I see some major negatives, I’ll see the positives.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 13, 2009 10:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did Stafford tell his team mates this while in San Fran ?
by Runnin' Rebel on Apr 13, 2009 10:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If it's true...
…3-5 years of more Lions football as we’ve known it lately. Get ready for it….
$40 million? Mayhew must have seen Jesus reincarnated.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
by Twon82 on Apr 14, 2009 12:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It never fails...
…I get my hopes up and they let them down (again, if it’s true). Stafford is not it. I can feel it. Even if he has skills, he doesn’t have a foundation to work with on that offensive line.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
by Twon82 on Apr 14, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
they act like georgia had a sucky line.. that guy had all day to throw the ball.. until it came to florida. they exposed him for what he was under pressure .. thats how the NFL WILL be in my eyes..
by A. ROBINSON on Apr 16, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Michael Smith on ESPN's NFL Live...
…just said that the Lions have definitely not made the decision yet, and that they have not even settled on whether Stafford is better than Sanchez.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
by Twon82 on Apr 14, 2009 12:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
haha yea
I was watching that too, he made a good point about Culpepper how good he has looked. I still think they might go Jason Smith due to the fact that Culepper is lookin sleek and slim like his Minnesota days. I see replays of Culpepper to Moss but instead of Moss this time its Calvin.
by lionsfan22 on Apr 14, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even though I don't have much faith in Daunte, I hope he does well.
I know I have made some pretty negative comments based on his 2008 play, but I am hoping he is ready and able to provide some steady QB play for Detroit in 2009. I have no wish to see the 2008 season repeated.
NOTE TO THE LIONS: I DON’T WANT YOUR DAMN DVD OF THE 2008 SEASON!
BURN ALL THE TAPES!!!!
by NorthLeft12 on Apr 14, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: I sure hope so...
I agree. I want to see Culpepper restore himself to his previous years of glory, but also think that the Lions need to draft a QB and begin grooming him to take over for Culpepper when the time is right. But to draft a QB at #1 and pay him $40 million – all I can say is damn! Say it ain’t so!
by rmh820 on Apr 14, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how many people have ever....
actually said that they WANT to play in Detroit? Lets give him a chance, “Hometeamates” and support the Lions TRYING to get better…Barry Sanders is LONG GONE and its time to play defense, not turn the ball over, and give your Quarterback more than 2 seconds to make a decision….
by HonoluluBluein WA on Apr 26, 2009 7:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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