Making Sense Out of a Senseless Draft
by detpistons3 on Apr 27, 2009 6:31 PM EDT
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After reading endless articles, reading every scouting report I could come across, disecting cryptic quotes from the Lions brass and some personal speculation of my own tuition, I am ready for my own evaluation and conclusion of a questionable draft. Perhaps swaying some Lions fans back on Mayhew's side in the process. I implore you to read through the entire piece, and if you think I'm a genius, or if I'm just full of it, let me know in the comments.
The second coming of Millen? No, not if what I observe proves to be correct.
Why the Lions Draft Looks Crazy
Mayhew and Schwartz have a plan. Studying the picks made and quotes by Schwartz and Mayhew, the thought process attributed to some of these questionable picks become apparent. Mayhew, with the proper drafting, could've made the Lions a potential 8-8 team with picks that directly addressed the Lions biggest needs. But where would this leave us? Say we drafted everybody we should've drafted (exception of Stafford, more on this later) . Oher, Ziggy, Brinkley/Mckillop etc. Now say these guys panned out exactly how they were drafted. We have a great but not elite tackle in Oher, we have a good defensive tackle, we have a merely adequate middle linebacker in Brinkley/Mckillop (ditto with Laurinaitis/Maualuga). There's a small chance these guys end up as studs, but it's more likely they pan out like this. Due to the youth of these players, it wouldn't make sense to get an upgrade at Middle Linebacker when you already have a servicable one (Brinkley/Mckillop) in place. Throw in the fact that the Lions have too many needs to worry about a position that needs upgrading and we are left with a roster of players that are mediocre-good with a few greats thrown in. Sure we may make the playoffs with a roster like this, but don't expect rings. I know what you're thinking. "Rings? Take it easy, let's get a win first!" but Mayhew is thinking BIG with his plan (assuming my assumptions are correct, and I hope they are for the sake of the Lions), think Superbowl BIG. Mayhew isn't content with 1 draft fixing Detroit, he wants it all.
Mayhew's Blueprint
What is this cryptic plan you ask? If you look at the Day 2 draft picks, and study each guy and his tendencies, you got yourself an all-star special teams cast. A wide receiver who specializes in kick returns? A runningback who also specializes in kick returns? A left tackle that runs as fast as Pettigrew? A tight end that blocks and runs as fast as some wide receivers? Then on the defensive end, you got a linebacker who's greatest asset is his special teams play. Also note the way we traded back to stock up on more special team players. It's clear Schwartz is beefing up our special teams as evident by the quote:
"I don't want a punt returner that is going to fair-catch everything...we're looking for someone explosive who can make big plays for us."
Even our Day 1 picks will help on special teams, Pettigrew can block and loves to block. And Delmas is just a player. I can see Derrick Willaims running behind Pettigrew and big 6'7 Murtha for the TD all day. The focus on special teams tells me Mayhew isn't making this a 1 year project. He's going to draw out the rebuilding process to it's extent, and the result will be an Elite football team. The way things appear, each year focuses on a different area of football, 1st year was Special Teams, 2nd year will be either offense or defense, and 3rd year will be either offense or defense. By drafting in this fashion, We end up with stars in every aspect. We save the most important positions for the highest draft pick. (LT will be the 1st pick in the Offense draft, DT or MLB, depending on Schwartz's preference, will be the 1st pick in the Defense draft etc.) Is it understood how this will make us an elite team? Rather than getting ok players at the most important positions, we draft the best players at the most important positions. The exception was the Special Teams Draft, it would be ludicrous to draft an elite kick returner 1st overall, so we went with best talent available at the least important positions first (with the exception of Stafford. Once again, more on this later). This way we don't squander a high pick on TE in the offense draft, and we don't use a high pick on safety in the defense draft.
Why Start With Special Teams?
So why start with Special Teams? The least important aspect of football? One major reason is the depth of the 2009 class. It's been repeated multiple times by both ESPN and NFL Network.[Link if you don't believe me.] The 2009 class is just not the same as previous draft classes. This allows for an opportune moment to focus less on the big impact players, and more on special teams stars, who appear in later rounds. Another is the main reason Matt Stafford was such a perfect fit for the Lions. The Lions can't become good too fast. As I said before, the Lions could've came in contention for an 8-8 record, but that would conflict with Mayhew's objective. If we got out of the top 10, we lose the opportunity to get elite players. Which is why Stafford was perfect for the Lions. An impact player that won't affect wins and losses because he won't play for a year, possibly two. Lastly, the Lions got the opportunity to focus more on talent, less on need with their day 1 picks because they didn't need to worry about addressing needs. They would come later. Observe the Schwartz quote:
"You draft to build your team and acquire talent.... We have a lot of needs. Our No. 1 need is talent."
They ended up getting impact players and getting a pretty decent special teams squad. Look for a pretty prolific return game, as well as less yards given up on opposing kick returns.
Conclusion
If this analysis turns out to be true, the Lions should be a top 10 team in as little as 3 years. Pretty good considering how long it took Millen to drive this team into the ground. If Mayhew really goes about this process, the Lions are in good hands. I leave you with a Schwartz quote, where even he talks about a 'process'.
When we started this process we went in with an open mind ... We didn’t start this process saying, hey, we’re starting a franchise, we’re going to start with a quarterback or we’re going to start with a left tackle or a defensive player. We let the process work.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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I think the draft philosophy is simple and was exactly what they have been preaching.
That doesn’t mean I think it’s always the right way to go, but it is the plan they are banking their careers on, and like George Bush, they are sticking to their guns, no matter the publics reaction.
Schwartz is quoted multiple times saying that the team needed talent, needed stars, and play makers. We don’t simply need to draft based on need, we need to take the best players we can get. I agree they are not drafting for good solid need fillers, they are drafting for pro-bowlers on day 1 of the draft.
Pettigrew could be one of the top 3 TE in the game. Delmas could be Bob Sanders. Those are possible pro-bowlers. They could bust, but they are projected to dominate. This was the goal of Day 1. To get monsters who can dominate and bring huge impact and make plays happen.
Day 2 had a different purpose. In previous years, we took chances on players in day 2 that could maybe start one day or would completely bust. This year we took a completely different approach. We got solid career backups and depth. Players that would possibly start one day, but would definitely be backups and depth.
I would rather have someone I knew could be a great backup for 10 years than someone who might start but would more than likely bust.
We got 3 possible pro-bowlers on day 1, and a whole lot of depth (and huge special teams upgrades) on day 2.
The new regime took people that they had a clear cut purpose for, that had actual intangibles like size, strength, speed, or just innate talent. Rather than people like Dizon who they were hoping to get lucky with.
I just think the mind set this year was different. Like someone said, there were multiple times in the draft where immediately after we drafted a position, NE did. What this tells me is we were properly setting up our draft board to see where the talent was available in what rounds. Not reaching for players to fill a need who were dead last in their positions.
Oakland gambles on players and either gets a phenom or a bench warmer. We drafted good, solid, coachable talent, just like most the players on the titans. That is what I want.
by MatthewDC on Apr 27, 2009 6:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed on Day 1
It was just Day 2 that had me scratching my head. With so many needs, they opted for special teamers. Which made me conclude with this idea, that Mayhew is focusing on what area at a time. I may be right, I may be wrong, but it is a valid theory as to our Day 2 choices. Honestly, can you say you predicted those positions on Day 2? An OLB then a WR then an RB? Nobody could’ve predicted that
excellent analysis
Excellent analysis, not least because it both mirrors and extends some of my own thoughts (heh,heh.) NE’s trade for Alex Smith only underlines my feeling on day one of the draft that Mayhew had stepped on Bellichick’s toes pretty hard. Going in, I had thought that NE would covet four players in particular who they could reasonably expect to fall to them—Pettigrew, Donald Brown, Delmas/Chung, probably in that order. I’ll admit that I would’ve picked Maualuga and Delmas, but, upon reexamination similar to your logic, realized that Mayhew did good (esp. given that Rey slipped to #38; smoke and fire.) Given the quality of next year’s crop, the Lions may be able to get both a quality ILB and a quality LT. By the time Stafford makes a start, he may have solid protection; these guys do seem to be resolutely in it for the long haul.
I was further encouraged by the choice of solid special teamers AND by the drafting of the best bona fide prospect in the draft, Sammie Lee Hill, exactly where a great prospect belongs, somewhere below the very top of the fourth round. I will admit, though, to being surprised that they didn’t take D.J. Moore at #65, though I can’t fault them for snatching two more picks, esp. since they only missed Moore by seven spots in the fourth.
I’ll admit to being tickled that the Lions got four guys that I had going to them in my last fantasy draft—purest luck, that, over seven rounds—Stafford, Delmas, Hill, and Murtha.
Thats sounds
pretty reasonable. I am still a little upset with some of the picks but I am getting over it and rooting for the boys. My thoughts however are if we wanted a good QB with no gamble why didn’t we get Cutler? A TE with a first round pic I found ridiculous when we could of gotten Gonzalez with a 2nd rounder. We could of also gotten a pro bowl LT with one of our firsts also by going out and getting Peters. Thats 2 pro bowlers for less money. What we did made no sense to me.
If we traded for Cutler, Peters, and Gonzalez...
We would have gutted this year’s and next year’s drafts, which is completely contrary to what Mayhew and Schwartz’s stated objective was (namely, build through the draft). Besides, I’d rather develop our own talent for the future than trade for stars. It’s a better long-term strategy when you’re completely rebuilding a team like we are.
Usually
I’d say your right but with what was traded for these proven guys I disagree. We would of gotten better value and there would be no gamble whatsoever not to mention it would of been a hell of a lot cheaper!!!!!
by Usmarine0341 on Apr 28, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
The other problem
Is that none of these people would have wanted to play here. They are all top flight players who want to be part of top flight teams. Tony Gonzalez stated flatly that he wanted to be traded so he could win a Super Bowl. He is too old to stick around here until such time that we could contend. Cutler is a diva, and divas are poison in the locker room, especially on a mediocre team. Peters might be the only one who would be willing to stick around, but I doubt it.
Besides that, we are starting from rock bottom. To mortgage our future for three pro bowlers would be short-sighted at best. We need to build a foundation for the future, and losing our first-and second-rounders for the next two years would set that goal back until 2011. Sure, we might win 8 or 9 games a season until then, but we’d have to start from scratch again if and when those stars left.
I know it’s not easy to wrap your mind around paying an untested rookie $41.7 million, but nobody can help that—it’s the way the system works right now. Regardless, building a base like we are is the best way to ensure future success, and not just short-term results.
You make some good points,
I just wish we fired Lewand and Mayhew. I think we should of gone more defensively oriented. We may have gotten more offensive threats but I see us still getting run over continually. Darby sucks and is too small. I hope we start that kid Hill along side Jackson. Imagine having two DT’s commanding double teams. I dunno, as a lot of other people have said we will have to wait and see and hope for the best but prepare for the worst..
by Usmarine0341 on Apr 28, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
As much as I’m trying to have faith in the system, it’s hard seeing them pass up need positions in the draft. I just keep reminding myself that they’re not building for this year, they’re buildnig for three years from now (and beyond that). In the meantime, it seems they’re content with coaching the best performances possible out of the players we have. Actually, I am pretty excited to see what some of last year’s rookies can accomplish with [presumably] good coaching. I think our d-line will be better than people think, and our secondary will almost certainly be more of a force than in the past few years.
That in mind, I’m still not expecting more than 4 wins this year. Like you said, I’m hoping for the best but expecting the worst.
Remember
It is likely that Anthony Henry is a 1 year and out player….I have my doubts that Peterson resigns after his contract is up, unless we really make some great strides in a hurry. So, getting veteren free agents is not the answer, but rather a stop gap, or fill in, until we can draft players and develop them.
Whoa there...
T Gonz does nothing for the Lions. His skills would be wasted over what’s left of his career and he totally lacks what Pettigrew brings to the table—an extra blocker at the line of scrimmage.
I appreciate the work you put into your post. But..........................
However, you conclude that Oher will not be an elite LT. Why? When he came out of high school he was one of the most sought after players in the country. Everything he has done at Ole Miss has supported that belief. He was one of three finalists for the Outland Trophy. While I am not a fan or believer in those things, that indicates others think he achieved a great deal. Yet, you give our seventh round blocker the ability to crush all opposition in his path. Why is that?
You assume McKillop and Brinkley will be ‘adequate’. Why? McKillop had a great college career and reminds everyone of Chris Spielman or a bigger Zach Thomas. Brinkley was an awesome talent who had a great sophomore season before losing a whole year to a bad knee injury. His Senior season was not that good but perhaps he was not fully recovered. They were projecting him as a mid first round talent after that first season.
But you dismiss those because they don’t fit your model. This idea of building a team from the special teams out is ridiculous. If a GM seriously proposed it he would be laughed out of the league. With all our weaknesses we cannot afford to draft for the special teams.
HOLD IT, I GET IT! YOU WERE BEING SARCASTIC! HA HA HA HA! GOOD ONE!
You have to understand
I said if they all panned out based on their position, late 1st rders usually become great players. 4th rders usually become adequate players etc. I was one of the biggest supporters of Brinkley, I really liked him, but he wouldnt do as well as a linebacker we draft in the top 10 say.
I understand the idea of drafting special teams is ludicrous. But that’s not exactly what the Lions did. Day 1 they made all smart decisions, they drafted QB a huge need, TE another huge need, and Safety a large need as well. They also draft Levy a need (but out of position, grrr). After this pick however, they throw everthing out the window and draft special teams guys (with the exception of Hill) I am not suggesting the Lions build their draft from Special Teams out, that would be retarded, beyond Millen-retarded. But when you observe the Lions picks, it looks as if they are drafting for special teams. Maybe it’s just a coincidence, it’ll take next years draft to be sure.
Lydon Murtha
Was a steal in the 7th round, and he will prove to be better than Backus at LT. Probably not right away, but within a couple of years I bet he is starting. The Lions need to be sure to condition his legs well, so that he does not fall to injury. Once his legs are stronger, he will be awesome. This of course, is my humble opinion.
I agree with you
He was a huge steal for a 7th rounder. I thought he’d go in the 3rd or 4th round. I hadn’t even heard of him until I started researching mock drafts and whatnot. I agree that if he can strengthen his legs, he’ll be a solid player. Backus needs to move inside to Guard. If Murtha can work himself into a starting role and be more effective than Backus (which at this point, isn’t out of the question) I’ll be very happy.
And, he was one of the guys I mentioned
A long time ago, back when we were mocking and I was saying pass on Stafford, pass on LT, and draft Curry. I said that we could wait on a LT until later in the draft and possibly get Murtha. This was the only pick that my friends and I even high fived about. However, I am starting to get excited about some of the other guys, and I am hopeful that they will do well.
I also figured that we would draft one of the better LG's and CB's
But I can’t be right about everything…..lol
i do not understand
coach schwartz said that he wanted to establish a defense and strong running game. that to me sounds like a foundation/direction for this team. how can you say they did this at all by building, what you believe, is a strong foundation for special teams. now i can see the need to build a special teams because they will be getting scored on more than….well, the 2008 lions. i also understand that we have lost faith and trust due to the years of millen picks, but it really cant be that difficult. we have no o-line, no d-line, and no mlb. so lets draft an OLB and switch them to MLB, but not have it be aaron curry? to quote sal the sports king, “COME ON!!!!!!!” if they pan out, then we are lucky to have 3rd stringers. if we are not, and history sides against us, then we wasted another opportunity to actually establish something meaningful with this lousy team. i guess we should be lucky that stan kwan has some toolsto fool with.
Excellent Post
The one thing that really upset me was the contract Stafford recieved. That showed me a sign of weakness, which honestly I believe was a WCF/Lewand blunder sure all the significant people were onboard with the player but I think they would’ve been onboard with another player I think they should’ve also negotiated with Sanchez if WCF was hell bent on taking a QB, also Jason Smith was out of the picture because he was from the same agency. I will do backflips when a draft cap comes to fruition.
I am not going to judge this draft until after the season is over. If one player makes the probowl or at least rookie of the year then I’ll give it up to Mayhew. (Yea even if the guided-missle Follett gets an invite as a special teamer to the pro bowl.) With all the one year contracts on our roster they better hit on at least 5 of the last 7 picks. If Curry goes to the pro bowl I’ll be severely pissed, after the emotion he displayed on draft day I regretted he wasn’t a Lion even more, I felt the same about Oher even if he would play RG for the Lions I’d want a guy like that on my team.
by Runnin' Rebel on Apr 27, 2009 8:03 PM EDT reply actions
I like your thinking, but I have to disagree somewhat.
I think the fact that we got so many good special teamers in this draft wasn’t so much of a goal as a strategic byproduct. You’re right in the fact that I’m sure they realized this was a weak draft to begin with. In looking at the available players, they undoubtedly realized that almost everyone after the first 1.5 ronds would be developmental prospects at their positions. This in mind, they sought out the best raw football players they could find with little regard to position, a strategy that will naturally lead you to players with a ton of potential on special teams—hungry players who can run fast and hit hard, but maybe aren’t quite there yet at their specific skill positions. This speed and toughness happens to coincide with the type of team identity they’re trying to establish—a hard-nosed, punishing football team. Therefore, in looking for tough, fast, aggressive football players and drafting for talent over need, they gain the added benefit of fleshing out the special teams.
That said, I think it’s obvious that they did draft two players primarily for their special teams abilities: Derrick Williams and Aaron Brown, both of whom I think were solid pick ups. Our return game has been just awful, and the two of them immediately give us threats in that department.
Good post, man
You make some pretty sharp observations here, but… I know, there’s the “big but”. You have to remember, on this site… there’s always gonna be a “but”. My “but” is… I think that you are overanalyzing this draft and Mayhew’s overall plan for the Lions. I agree that Mayhew and Schwartz were simply adding talent this year. I think that this is the obvious conclusion most fans dedicated to researching the “why” behind this draft will come to. But to think that Mayhew and Schwartz are looking at each draft saying, “we can’t take a defensive starter in the second round because we haven’t filled our special teams quota”, probably isn’t entirely accurate.
I know that you are more or less generalizing with this theory and I’ll keep that in mind as I comment, but although your theory sounds great, It’s doubtful that they are thinking this “grandiose” – how’s that for word usage? I think that they are definitely stocking for depth, very specialized needs and yes, special teams. But I also think that had a fantastic MLB prospect been there at #20, they’d have jumped at it. That fact is… and now we know this… there wasn’t one. Maualuga – whom we all had fatefully fallen in love with over our obsessive, neverending mocking – turned out to be a quite different player in the eyes of “real” NFL scouts. T.V. analysts had once again gotten it wrong and we fell for the bait – hook, line and sinker. Mel strikes again!
Anyway, I enjoyed this piece and agree to an extent. But I think you might be giving a tad too many kudos to Mayhew for his vision. I hope that this is exactly what’s going on in his mind… I do. But I think the plan is a little less structured than the beautifully designed Picasso that you painted above. We’ll see in a few years if Mayhew truly has a “Beautiful Mind” for talent.
Perhaps in an ideal world...
This is exactly what Mayhew is thinking. But you really hit my thought process in your comment. Mayhew isn’t thinking this exactly (maybe it’d be great if he was, I would love 3 studs on offense and defense and special teams no less!) Maybe my overanalyzation (lil word usage from me) was due to the fact that I was left in the dark by day 2, and I was looking for an answer. This situation can be a reality (although as you said, less precise) but the far more likely answer was what AZYooper said:
The fact that we got so many good special teamers in this draft wasn’t so much of a goal as a strategic byproduct.
I had alot of fun with this post however, it was a little extreme, and I figured most would take it with a tongue-in-cheek approach, but the basic facts are there, Mayhew is starting with a foundation, and it will spread out to all parts of the team eventually.
No... I really do think that..
you’re on to something here. Just maybe not quite as literally as interpreted above. I do believe there is a plan in place. I believe Mayhew would have had to submit that plan to WCF and Jr. prior to him getting the job. Part of the that submission was to actually stick to that plan, which I believe he did.
Mayhew’s battle will be with the fans that have zero patience and need to see that immediate improvement that will garner that mediocrity and those perpetual 8-8 seasons you alluded to above. If we can just get through this season, then in next year’s draft pick up another piece or two so people can start to see the plan coming together. Problem is… fans just NEED that instant gratification and some honestly believe that we can do what Atlanta or Miami did. I’m not sure of many things in my life, but I can say that I’m pretty dog-gone sure we won’t be in the playoffs next year.
Detpistons and Drew....
I agree with both of you to an extent, and I will not bore you with an in depth analysis of why. However, I will say this: My opinion is that Mayhew wants to see if Schwartz, Cunningham, and Linehan can win with what we have, before we completely remove all players and start over. That idea is the only real reason I could come up with to justify the picks made by the Lions in this draft. Mayhew and Co likely thought that by adding a talented player in a few key spots, that it is possible that we could significantly improve with the new systems in place, both offensively and defensively, without completly detroying what has already been built. I believe that this coming season will definitely be one of close scrutiny and analysis, and if there is not significant improvement, next year we will see “heads roll”, so to speak, in the player personnel department (including both existing players, scouts, and department heads). I genuinely hope that Schwartz can make something out of the current discombobulation (HA!), that is the edifice (HA HA!) that we call our football team. Here comes the really big word usage sentence: Theoretically, give a year to gather and analyze all empirical evidence that surrounds him, Jim Schwartz could potentially have a strong basis to create a nomothetic set of guidelines that allow our procedural actions pertaining to drafting, practicing, signing free agents, and evaluating talent to become the status quo, and by examining the probabilistic potential of the team and organization as a whole, he could also develop a causal hypothesis that will allow the front office and coaching staff to clearly understand the cause and effect relationships that lead to success or failure, thereby allowing them to have the ability to determine what is right and wrong with the team and make the appropriate adjustments…..:o) How’s THAT for word usage? LOL!
Well, maybe...
but I have a feeling that both Schwartz and Mayhew know exactly what kind of talent this team has… little to none. I think coaching might win a game or two and we have made some upgrades both during the draft and in free agency (which I have a feeling that they are not done there yet), but I think there’s still not enough there to compete.
I think to say that they tanked the draft or took players of less caliber simply to take a wait and see approach with what we have is suspect. They are legitimately trying to upgrade this roster. Whether they succeeded or not is also suspect. We’ll see in a few years. But my personal opinion is they got some real talent, just not at the positions we needed most. Depends on whether you have the cup half full or half empty outlook.
By the way, I found your word usage to be both “transcendent” and “superlative”
;o)
Not exactly what I meant Drew…..I didn’t mean to come across as thinking that they purposefully tanked the draft to take a wait and see approach. I agree that they did make an attempt to upgrade in certain areas. What I did mean was maybe they decided beforehand that we had decent talent, but that it was used poorly. I have to disagree that we have little to no talent. In my humble opinion, we had 2 above average safeties in Alexander and Bullocks (if we had equal talent at MLB and DT, it would have shown), we have a couple of average to above average DE’s in Avril and White, we have a great WR1, a good RB, a better than average OLB in Sims, and a few developing DT’s. We desperately needed help at CB, LB, OL, and yes even TE. We got our hands on Buchanon, who is an above average CB, Julian Peterson, who is an all pro OLB, Grady Jackson, who is a BIG force at DT, and we drafted guys with alot of potential at TE, S, and QB. Dare I say that during the second half of the season, our offensive line did show that it was not as bad as everyone says it is? Dare I say that they could be underrated due to the fact that they were trying to gel into a new zone blocking scheme? Dare I say that they were quite durable and servicable? I look at it this way…..if they were THAT bad, K-Smooth would not have ran for nearly 1000 yards, Megatron would not have had 78 catches for 1331 yards and 12 TD’s. They did look pretty bad, and I am not saying that we do not need to fix and upgrade there, but I feel that they could do better under a different blocking scheme. Our coaches and front office obviously must have thought much the same, as they did little to address O-Line in the draft. We got Loper, who I am not sure if he will play backup to Backus or if he will play LG. There is alot to consider. I am going with the cup is half full approach here, and while I agree that is would be incredibly short-sighted to think that we can compete just yet, I do feel that we will significantly improve. That is where I was coming from.
Great comment
And I think your right. I don’t quite think many of our players are as bad as many people think. We have one elite talent, a couple of close to elites and a bunch of very solid players. Unfortunately, a combination of coaching, playcalling and schemes, as well as some poor players at certain positions, led to our complete downfall. Remember everyone, we did go 7-9 the year before, and we still had similar personel. I agree with your summation and will join you in your ‘glass half full’ mentality.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 29, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, guys...
I understand that we have a few good players on the roster. Every team does. But compared to other NFL teams, our team is at the very bottom talent-wise and that is reflected by the single worst season in NFL history. We have the hardest and farthest road back to respectibility that any franchise has ever faced. That is pretty much fact.
Now, I agree that a few pieces are in place, but the Lions of ‘08 lacked key starters and depth alike. So few NFL teams are in that much of a predicament. So with that as the backdrop and that being the standard of relativity… I say again… we have little to no talent on this roster (’08 version).
As I’ve said, we’ve made some strides this year. Peterson, Jackson and possibly Buchanon were good defensive gets. On offense, Johnson (Bryant), Curry and Smith (Terrelle) will help as well. Add in the draft, and yeah, this is looking better.
Contrary to my opinions on the ‘08 roster’s talent, my glass if half full as well. I’m coming around to the positives of this draft and I think we’ll be competitive this year.
Grady Jackson
Plays like he’s inflicted with Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis
ahem, eat it ;)
Sean could you put a Dictionary somewhere on the site us Hillbilly Lion fans are lost
by Runnin' Rebel on Apr 29, 2009 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahaha
Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis (n) -A factitious word alleged to mean ’a lung disease caused by the inhalation of very fine silica dust, causing inflammation in the lungs.
You must formulate tobacco products for a living!
by Runnin' Rebel on Apr 30, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great Post
My thoughts are they are starting this team over from the ground up, if you look at their draft picks I believe there is no other conclusion. Stafford will be brought along slowly, Pettigrew, Delmas will be week one starters. I disagree with Williams in the third but if he can return kicks and punts I be proven wrong. Levy will be a understudy for Peterson, Sammie becomes Schwartz pet “Albert” project. To me that 7th round tackle is just a training camp body, but I do believe the steal of "our " draft will come in the form of Follett, the kid looks lack a Zach Thomas clone. I find it hard to believe the Lions will be a top ten team in 3 years but that’s just me, I believe since we haven’t seen a winning team or coach, or draft we’ve simply question a draft that different from the past ten years… I guess the biggest problem for me was accepting that once again we are starting all over from ground zero, I guess I was in denial for awhile…
I disagree about Murtha, the 7th rd tackle
he’s more than a training camp body. He ran the 40 how fast? I think I saw it was a high 4.6. Thats faster than most of the LBs in the draft. Not bad for a 6’7" 310 lb. dude. He’ll make the team on ST and will be taught better OL skills.
Follett is going to be a monster on ST
Agreedq
Which refers back to my post, we got some special team monsters. I believe his 40 was 4.89 or around that, which is STILL a tenth of a second slower than some LBs (Maualuga ran a 4.80)
Great post Detpistons
I like your post and sincerely hope that your on to something with it.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
I was planning
on posting my opinions on the draft a little later this week. You touched on a few things I wanted to write about. I spent the entire weekend getting upset about the draft. I don’t think a single Lions’ pick went by that I didn’t respond with the phrase “What? What are they thinking?” As I did a little research on a few of their picks, I began to settle down. I realize that this draft can’t be looked at to solve all of the Lions problems. There are problems that will continue to plague them through the next season, no matter what was done this weekend.
I know what you mean
The entire time after the draft I was pondering the reason the Lions went the way they did by Day 2. The conclusion left me to this post. Alot of it ties in to talent. In order for the Lions to be contenders in the near future, the talent needs to be there, then the positions. You mention 1 draft not being able to solve all the problems, and to this I wholeheartedly agree. If we had attempted to patch all our holes in one draft, it would be the equivalent of using bubble gum and scotch tape to repair a bombed-out building. The wiser thing would be to establish the talent as the “frame” of the house, than obtaining the pillars that will make our ‘house’ great
remember people
We are no longer a Tampa 2 Def. Nomore bend but don’t break. No more let the oppasing team get 3-4 yards and only worry about 3rd down. We will have many more blitzing packages which will utilize some of our players stronger skills. Like Avril and his Pass rushing and Peterson with his Blitzing. And I see our Safeties and Corners Blitzing more. No more 4 and 3 man rushes. We will see more 5-6 man pass rushing and more players playing in the box on rushing downs.
they almost
Have done better the 3rd day, than the 2nd, wi th the exception, of Hill & Murtha. I like what they’ve been doing after the draft, with the UDFAs
you're on the right track
I don’t think they were drafting special teams this year, but they really were just taking the top guy in their board each time IMO. Mayhew’s plan of drafting the BPA is the right one. If you grade this team out, almost every position gets a D or an F. If they had drafted for need and gotten, say, Maualuga at 20 or 33 (who was clearly overrated by the media), they would simply put themselves in a position where they would need to upgrade the position again in a couple years, essentially wasting this pick. By drafting the BPA at 20 and 33, they are upgrading positions from F to A, where as drafting for need gets you from F to C. This what I think they mean when they say getting “value” out of the pick.
So when they draft players next year, the odds that the BPA in round 1 will be a QB or tight end and the BPA in round 2 will be a safety are pretty slim. So they’ll take the BPA again, and fill another position with solid talent. This is what I think Schwartz means when he says he wants to “let the process work” with regard to the draft.
The Lions are basically starting with a blank slate. If you want to turn a blank slate into a Super Bowl team, then you have to go for the best talent, no matter the position. With this approach, the holes will begin to fill themselves with great players, instead of just average players. All this assumes that they are actually evaluating talent properly.
The Lions are going to suck for a few more years folks, especially on defense. But looking long-term, Mayhew is right on track.
Excellent discussions guys!
This is a great thread. We’ve gotten some great talent this year, and we’ll still have enough money to sign hometown hero, Larry Foote (which is REALLY why Laurinaitis and Maualuga were passed over). No other reason to snub the MLB position altogether, unless Mayhew knew something.
I just hope we quietly grab (FA ) FB Lorenzo Neal too. Even in a limited role, he and Sam Gash’s combined wisdom would be invaluable to our backfield! He’s still the best blocking FB in the game.
by michigangeorgia on Apr 29, 2009 5:48 AM EDT reply actions
I think we already signed a blocking FB in the offseason
Terrelle Smith was the name.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 29, 2009 6:14 AM EDT up reply actions
My first draft grade was a Dt
That was Monday morning, and everyone was still firedup. After 3 days and reviewing some of the picks stats, comparing them to the last 2 years draft stats i`ll move to a C for now. I think we did get some probowl talent early ( does not mean they go, look at Jason and Calvin last year ). We did need to get better on special teams to help change field position and get some better backups, with the undrafter free agents coming in ( i think Boldin, Wiley and Holtzclaw may make the team ) and the second wave of free agency coming in the next couple of weeks, this team is going to look alot different than last years and we will need a line up sheet to know new players. I would not be suprised if half the team is gone from last year. Defense is stocked with bodys as is offensive line. Now if they can weed out the weight and keep the talent we may improve fairly well, it will only take half a season for them to start the thought process all over. But i do think if they are breaking up the rebuilding process into 3 or 4 years ( i hope it is offense next ) then it is going to be time to resign or lose this years draft class and i see this as a nasty cycle.
Another Maualuga wrinkle
I was wondering why he fell so far in the draft. I sometimes check out the Bengals’ Blog and saw the discussion that Maualuga might be playing Outside Linebacker? Interesting. Maybe Mayhew and the Schwartz knew what they were doing.
draft
This draft made perfect sense to me and I graded it as a B myself.I am not all up to date on all the stats and stuff. But they said they were drafting talent hence the QB TE Safety and Returnman/WR who is a good slot WR also. Now with the L. Foote deal showing us why we probably didn’t draft a MLB. They also said they would fill more holes in F/A So far this offseason I would give them an A- grade Espically if Foote does come which we’ll see next week I am sure. This is not millien guys they have a plan and it looks like it is a good one to me just be patient it is all falling in place wait and see.
by MotorcityMaddogg on Apr 29, 2009 9:41 PM EDT reply actions
Wasn't
our whole team last year pretty good special teams players? So why didn’t they draft offense or defense this year because there was a full NFL roster os special teams players from last year.
Not really
We weren’t spectacular on Special teams, well apart from Hanson and Harris. We barely looked to crack a return TD last year and maybe someone like Williams or Brown can make that happen.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 30, 2009 6:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Auto Draft
A complete lack of confidence and willingness to dig deep on any choice.
The braintrust selcted the highest rated player at each opportunity – Yahoo Auto Draft could have done the same thing and saved us alot of money.
I am sick of hearing the 2 stooges talk as if they are some type of authority on talent and or needs of the team – neither of them would have a position anywhere else in the NFL.
Interesting
Firstly- Deandre Levy seems to be a big chance pick to me, Sure, they picked the best player on their board…but that’s how you draft isn’t?
Second- Schwartz is a highly respected and I would say sort after coaching talent. I’m sure a lot of teams would love to have Schwartz as their head coach.
Thridly- They are an authority on talent and needs, that’s what they do for a living, unlike you or me.
Maybe you could give us an expanded opinion on your thoughts?
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 30, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions
You do realize...
that there is no consensus best pick available at any given time in the draft, right? Every team has players rated differently according to what their scouts say, their team philosophy, and in many cases, their needs. Mayhew and Schwartz took the best players available according to their board, which was different than that of any other team. So no, they couldn’t have used an “auto draft” program.
Regardless, the tactic of taking the best player available is necessary when you have a talent-starved roster like ours. As this team improves and people stand out or fail, we’ll be able to be more targeted in our drafting. Unfortunately, after an 0-16 season, you don’t have the luxury of being able to draft for need. There are simply too many of them.
Yes, ranking prospects is a very subjective art.
I am always bothered when people say a player was taken too early based on their ranking. I have to admit that I have said that in posts at certain times. I cannot understand how they term a guy a reach if he is taken less than ten to fifteen picks before the consensus projection is. Even then you have to look at the drafting team’s needs and when their next pick is.
There seems to be some assumption that you can trade down at the drop of a hat.
Personally a reach is a guy who you could have got with your next pick, if not later.
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