Derrick Williams Scouting Report
by Sean Yuille on May 3, 2009 9:35 PM EDT
in Draft
26 comments
WR Derrick Williams (Penn State) - Round 3, Pick No. 82
It is a Lions fan's instinct to groan when a wide receiver is drafted, especially when other needs exist and the pick is in the third round. That is why the reaction to the Derrick Williams selection was overwhelmingly negative. While the Lions did need a returner, the third round seemed a bit too early to worry about that, especially, as stated, when other needs still existed. Williams can be an impact returner; there's no doubt about that. I'm just worried that there won't be a spot for him at wide receiver. He will play in the slot as a Shaun McDonald type of player, but with some of the depth added at the WR position this offseason, can Williams crack the lineup to make the active roster if he makes the team?
Experts' Opinions
Best traits per Scouts Inc.:
Reaches top speed quickly and fast enough to run by most corners when they don't slow him down at the line. Makes corners pay when they don't give him a healthy cushion.
Developed into one of the leaders on offense and there have been no off-the-field incidents to our knowledge. Shown a willingness to play a number of different positions and willing to do whatever helps teams. Team captain in 2008.
POSITIVES: Athletically gifted prospect with the ability to impact games in a variety of ways. Quickly releases off the line, runs good routes, and gets separation from opponents. Adjusts to the errant throw, extends his hands to make the reception away from his frame, and then immediately transitions from making the reception to running after the catch. Fluid, displays a great burst and plays much faster than his 40 time. Comes back into the clearing to make himself an available target, strong for his size, and uses his frame to shield away defenders. Game-changing return specialist, also picks up positive yardage running reverses.
NEGATIVES: Double catches too many throws on occasion, and does not consistently come away with the difficult reception. Has been moderately productive at Penn State, but never met expectations. Ran poorly at the combine, which has sent up a lot of red flags. [Note by Sean: The poor run at the combine was due to a combination of bronchitis and the flu.]
Final word: Williams is the kind of player who seems like he’ll be a better pro than college player. Williams never had a great quarterback getting him the ball and Penn State had other quality receivers to throw the ball to. His physical ability may be too much for a team to look past. Williams should immediately be able to contribute returning kicks and playing receiver in the slot.
Videos
Punt return TD against Notre Dame (2007):
2008 highlights:
More:
- Kick return TD against Illinois (2008)
- Punt return TD against Wisconsin (2008)
- Punt return TD against Temple (2006)
- TD run against Ohio State (2005)
- Highlights against Illinois (2008)
- Highlights against Ohio State (2008)
- Highlights against Michigan State (2008)
- Various videos from the Senior Bowl (2009)
Outlook for 2009
I don't know if Williams will crack the lineup as a slot receiver, but if he makes the roster and is active for games, chances are he will be the starting punt/kick returner. The best part of Williams' game is his ability on returns, and the Lions have been looking for a solid returner ever since Eddie Drummond left Detroit. Hopefully Williams can be that player and show some ability at wide receiver as well. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if the Lions ran some Wildcat packages with Williams, who ran that formation at Penn State.
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sweet vids
Williams can really get the wheels spinning. But we cant block longer enough for the QB to get him the ball.
by I3usdriver on May 3, 2009 9:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Judging by the vids and analysis
It appears Williams would be a Day 1 selection if he was taller and had slightly better hands. He has the speed, route running, athletic ability, and jumping for a top tier wide receiever. Add on the fact that he can return punts, and you got a talented player on your hands. Any chance of him playing in high heels for a little height boost?
by detpistons3 on May 3, 2009 9:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I LOVE
That he’s not afraid of contact. Too many wide receivers are afraid of the big hit.
by detpistons3 on May 3, 2009 9:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was going to say...
I like his speed, but I liked it even more when he lowered his shoulder into people.
by damnitdamnitdamnit on May 3, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He looks nice.
Hope he can be a dynamic slot guy for us.
by SaginawGuy on May 3, 2009 10:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice pick
I didn’t care for it at first, but this kid is going to be pretty good. Ronald Curry only has a one year contract, Williams will take over the slot full-time in 2010. Its like the Lions drafted 2 safety valves for Shiny with Pettigrew and Williams. Gives me optimism this coaching staff is intent on making Stafford a success
by JazzyBBP on May 3, 2009 10:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What depth?
Bryant Johnson and Ronald Curry are nothing special. Certainly neither of them should be a #2 option. I have high hopes for Derrick Williams. WR was a big position of need in the draft, sadly enough.
Check out nickandroll.blogspot.com
by n1ck34 on May 3, 2009 10:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
IMO, WR was low on the priority list for need positions
Aside from Curry and Johnson, we picked up a few WRs on waivers near the end of last year. I’m sort of expecting to only have 4 WR active next season since TE seems to be a focus of this offense.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
by Sean Yuille on May 3, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every single team in the NFL activates 5 wide receivers for every game
Derrick Williams is explosive. He is cut from the same cloth as Deseasn Jackson, Steve Slaton, Bush, Eddie Royal, Percy Harvin, Harry Douglas, Tedd Ginn, Donnie Avery
He can make plays in the return game, running game and in the slot. He’s now the most explosive run after the catch weapon in Detroit. I was reading a blog on MLIVE and I was stunned after reading some of the comments on that board after he was picked. Now I know why the unemployment rate is so high in Detroit. Seroiusly though, can fans be that stupid?
He’s going to be good.
Its hilarious you have doubt he won’t make the active roster….
by GobbleforCyoung on May 9, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I LOVE this kid...
…and he gives us a number of good options to help out a Pro Bowl caliber CJ.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
by Twon82 on May 3, 2009 10:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
After this last season...
It’s unfortunate that you still have to say Pro Bowl Caliber, as his numbers warranted taking off the “Caliber” part. Well, bygones are bygones and he certainly will be this year.
by damnitdamnitdamnit on May 3, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He looked good in those videos
I see him making the team in the slot. His speed will be tough to cover so I see him being open quite often.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on May 3, 2009 10:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
derrick williams
i too wondered why we took derrick williams when we still needed help at d-tackle, middle linebacker and even at corner.
looking at it now, we had no returners last year and often started drives at or inside the 20 yard line. i think derrick helps out immediately in the return game and for now could possibly be a fourth receiving option. i think in time he could grow into a playmaker at receiver, but i think most of his immediate value will be in returning kicks.
by big smoove on May 4, 2009 12:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I still don't like this pick
He has two kick returns for TDs in his career. One was against Coastal Carolina and the other is the Illinois video. In the Illinois return he simply runs up the sideline for a TD. That kick return was all about the blocking and required nothing of Williams.
Outside of the two TD returns, he averaged less than 20 yards per return. Does anyone know why his numbers were so bad?
For punt returns, he had 3 TDs and other than that averaged a mediocre 8 yards per return. His senior season he averaged 6 yards per return. Anyone know why his numbers are so bad? The punt return against Wisconsin was all about the blocking, Williams goes to the right, sees the wall of blockers then turns upfield for an easy run to the endzone. In his other two punt returns they involved poor tackling and him crossing the field, something that you can’t do in the NFL.
I really don’t see anything that makes me believe he will be a good returner in the NFL. If he was drafted to return kicks, I am guessing he won’t make the team.
I think his best chance is at WR, but with questionable hands and a terrible yardage average he has to almost be like Lavernous Coles. A zero in college who became incredible in the Pros.
Until Williams actually does something on the field, I won’t like this pick.
by DrDetroit on May 4, 2009 7:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nicccce.
During his senior season of 2004, Williams was 56-of-91 for 972 yards and 13 touchdown passes, ran for 1,123 yards and 12 touchdowns and caught 11 passes for 203 yards and two more scores. He also accumulated 479 punt return yards and added another score. As a defensive back, he had four interceptions and 34 tackles. In his junior year, he rushed for 1,350 yards and 28 touchdowns and threw for 700 yards and five scores.
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/derrick-williams?id=71517
by BIGWalt2990 on May 4, 2009 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't he play receiver at high school?
Well he seems to have versatility.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on May 4, 2009 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My research has turned up different stats to yours
Half of his kick returns had an average of 20+.
Coastal Carolina (1-89-89.0), Oregon State (3-62-20.7), Syracuse (1-24-24.0), Illinois (3-133-44.3), Michigan (1-20-20.0), Indiana (1-27-27.0). Another 3 of his games had averages over 15. And on a side note, Kick returners in the NFL average between 20-28 yds, Williams average in 2008, 25.75. Seems pretty good to me.
Same story for punt returns, most NFL punt returners average between about 14-6 yds. Williams average in 2008, 9.38. Once again, seems quite reasonable.
I got my stats from Rivals.com, where did you get yours?
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on May 4, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stats from Yahoo and ESPN
For his Senior season ,half of his kick returns averaged 20+, but 90% of his kick returns had an average of 18.4 yards. 94% of his punt returns averaged 6.2 yards.
I did a statistical analysis to get those averages. It is his average if you exclude his returns for TD. I wanted to know if his average was made up mostly of his TD returns. It is.
I posted this elsewhere on here, but I’ll copy/paste and edit now.
He did not return punts as a Freshman, but averaged 12 yards per as a Sophomore, 11 as a Junior and 9.4 as a Senior. Somehow experience did not help his average. Additionally, if you exclude his best return each year he would average 9.4, 8.0 and 6.2.
That is where I said the average of his non TD returns is 8 yards for his career. That is not a bad average, but would you draft someone based on that average? I wouldn’t.
As a Freshman he averaged 21.1, 17.3 as a Sophomore, 18.2 as a Junior and 25.8 as a Senior returning kicks. He only returned 4 kicks as a Sophomore so that one can be ignored. He appeared to have really flourished as a Senior though. Except his average is 18.4 yards per return if you exclude his TD runs of 94 and 89 yards.
Which is my point. He had 17 punt returns this past year that he averaged 6.2 yards per return on. What is he doing that the average is so bad?
Same thing for kick returns. His 18 returns that did not result in TDs gave him an average of 18.4. What is he doing on those returns to only average 18.4? For kick returns, anything under 20 is bad, and 90% of the time Williams is averaging under 20.
by DrDetroit on May 4, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
can't say without seeing footage
his skills aren’t the only thing in reutnrs that you can judge by. Was he getting ample protection and were the blocks there. Only game footage can show that not stats. If you have no room for a return and have to fair catch or some one slips thru protection you aren’t going to go far. You can be the best return specialist ever and not get crtap for yards becuase your protection breaks down. I am sure the staff watched footage on all his returns and liked what they saw. Can you say the same did you devote the time to find all his returns and see how his protection was and the moves he made to create space? Probably not since all you did was a statistical evauation you only have half the story.
by shanndiggit on May 4, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mel Gray
Do you remember Mel Gray? The Lions didn’t block the first guy back because Mel Gray would make him miss. He was an incredible return guy. So, if you are a good return guy you should be able to make someone miss.
Fair catches don’t count in the average. So that is not why his average was so low.
I devoted time to watch his TD returns. Oddly enough, most people don’t post punt returns for 3 yards. If you can find some, let me know.
For his TD returns. Punt return against Temple involves him getting hit as the ball arrives but the tackler does not wrap him up. He bounces off that and goes for a TD. That might be impressive, except it was against Temple. In the NFL guys won’t miss that tackle.
Against Notre Dame he runs to the right sideline, then back across the field. With the speed in the NFL you can’t do that. You will get caught and tackled.
When you get to watch the videos, listen to the announcers. They are touting the blocking on his return. They don’t mention anything about how he made a great move or did something incredible, they are talking about the blocking.
His TD return against Illinois involves him running up the sideline. That’s is it. He runs up the sideline. The blocking was incredible.
This is the worst part. I am talking bad about him by looking at his highlights! Highlights are supposed to show a player at his best, yet I am saying look at his highlights and you can see that he is not that special.
And if I have issues with his highlight reels, what is going on with the rest of his returns that he only averages 6 and 18 yards respectively?
by DrDetroit on May 4, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice Work Dr. D.
First off, I am very glad to see you use the available statistics AND the videos of his return to form an opinion of his return skills.
However, I’m not sure of the validity of removing his best returns [do you consider them outliers?], then comparing his resulting average against a ‘normal’ average that probably includes some long gains in it. Did you review other returners after removing their best 10% returns? I don’t think punt and kick returns are normally distributed.
My anecdotal observation is that most returners are sort of boom or bust. Devin Hester either breaks it, or gets buried and fumbles. Steve Smith of Carolina used to return punts and was more consistent, although I recall he would go backwards and get nailed for a loss more than a few times.
I am not a big fan of this pick either, but hopefully the Lions coaches and scouts have seen something that leads them to believe he can be a dynamic NFL returner in the short term and a good #2 receiver in the longer term.
Thanks again for a well researched and thoughtful post.
by NorthLeft12 on May 4, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Outliers
I removed the TDs to see if they were outliers. IE if his average was 9 yards with the TD and 8.9 without then you know his average is not because of the TD. However his average goes to 6.2, so it appears the TD is 1/3 of his average. I also did the opposite, I assumed he had one return for zero yards, doing that keeps his average under 10, so one bad return is not killing his average. He just has 17 punt returns that appear to be very mediocre.
I compared his numbers to Arenas from Alabama. Just by the numbers Arenas appears to be the best punt returner in college football. For two straight years he has averaged over 15 yards per return. If you removed Arenas’ 4 TDs, he still averages over 10 yards per return. And that is for 58 punt returns. Obviously the kid is getting it done. So his TD returns are also 1/3 of his average, but he is still averaging a huge 10 yards without them. Which goes back to why is Williams numbers so low?
Looking at Brandon James of Florida, he averaged over 13 yards per return but had two TDs. Assuming both were for 78 yards (I’m not going to bother looking to find what his 2nd TD was for) he would still average over 10 yards per return without the TDs. Kyle Wilson of Boise State average over 14 yards per return, but he TDs of 90, 71 and 79 yards. Excluding those his average would be 7.6 yards per return. That is a significant fall off. So his entire average his based on the 3 TDs.
I did the same for kick returns. At first I just excluded Williams longest return of 94 yards and found his average dropped to 22 yards. I compared that drop to other returners, Damaris Johnson and Josh Smith. Excluding their best returns, their average stayed above 24 yards. Then I went and found Williams other TD and found that if he doesn’t go to the house he averages 18 yards. I also compared his numbers to the return guys from Michigan. They had no TDs and averaged over 22 yards per return.
Which is why I have the issue with him. If he has a 25 yard return, his next return is going to be around 11 yards to get that average to 18. Once again, what the heck is going on for the 11 yard return?
I agree the returns are generally boom or bust, but a lot of the time returners will also have non TD that are still boom. IE having returns of 2, 4, 24, 8, 5, 14. Half your returns are for less than 5 yards, but you still have a 9.5 yard average. This should happen more often in college because the quality of play is lower.
I looked more at Williams numbers and he appears to have a lot of returns over 10 yards. Against Temple he had 5 returns for 30 yards, but one return was for 15 yards. So he had 4 returns for 15 yards. How do you average less than 4 yards per return? Against Wisconsin he had 2 punt returns for 61 yards and a long of 63. So his other punt return was or negative 2 yards. Against Michigan he had one punt return for negative 4 yards.
I hate this pick even more. I wish you hadn’t asked me about the validity.
Watching his videos where he makes cuts back across the field which you can’t do in the pros and knowing that a lot of his punt returns are for negative yardage it appears he is someone who likes to go against the grain but can’t make anyone miss. And that is at the college level. If you run sideways in the pros, you won’t get positive yards.
by DrDetroit on May 4, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love your analysis
But, like North said, I think Williams appears to be a boom-bust type of individual. As long as he can bust a big run/TD every once and a while, then I’d be happy. It would be a hell of a lot better than what we have now.
Also, you brought up a good point. Blocking is an important part of returns, and Williams was fortunate for such solid blocking. But Blocking is only a part of the return. Williams, to me, shows great vision on his runs. He sees the blocks, sees the lanes and runs through them. That’s what a good returner needs to do.
Right now though, we are all just speculating. Let’s see how he goes as the season gets closer.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on May 4, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great response.
Sorry, I forgot to check back on this thread. I hope Mr. Williams doesn’t fumble.
I prefer punt returners who continually move forward. Like you said going sideways in the NFL does not work very well. You need to have exceptional acceleration and speed to pull it off. I don’t think Williams has that or he would have went in the first round.
by NorthLeft12 on May 7, 2009 6:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has 5 return td's in his career
Last year he was the only player in NCAA Division 1 to rush for a td, catch a td, return a punt for a td and return a kickoff for a td…..
Don’t worry about his receiving stats either. Look at what he did with Michael Robinson his frehsman year and waht he did with Kyle his senior year. That Morelli kid was friggen garbage
by GobbleforCyoung on May 9, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been openly pesimistic about this draft....
….but the Lions return game has been DREADFUL the past couple of years and this game footage gives me some hope that he can translate these skills to the NFL. There’s no question that it’s a different level of competition, but his cuts look clean, and he accelerates quickly after making them, with good balance. I agree that I’m curious about what he does on returns not brought back for a TD, but it sure would be nice to have someone back there that actually could. Curry and Bryant are far better prospects for starting WR then him though, or so I would imagine. I’m still not a fan of drafting a straight return man in the 3rd round, but I suppose it beats drafting him in the first (hey Miami?). I’ve heard the Steve Smith comparisons already, but I think we’d be extremely lucky if he can even play like a poor man’s Wes Welker.
by Mushy on May 4, 2009 1:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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