2009 Roster Overview
Disclaimer: This is my original work, sorry for the long post.
http://www.studyofsports.com/?p=2413
Before I begin, I'd like to address my absence from this website. I went into what I like to call a "sports coma" after the Red Wings lost game seven of the Stanley Cup Finals. Combined with the end of the Pistons' dynasty, the embarrassment of the Michigan Wolverines football season, and, of course, 0-16, sports became unbearable for a month. But, alas, I awaken to see that not all is wrong in the sports world. The Tigers are in first place, Chris Pronger has been exiled to the Eastern Conference and football is only two months away.
With the ensuing NFL season on the horizon, irrational optimism begins to seep in, even with the dirt still fresh on the 0-16 grave in my head. But perhaps I'm not completely insane for being a little hopeful. The Lions have a whole new set of coaches, and they've been quite active in the offseason. In addition to ten new draft picks, the Lions have added several new faces behind the blue and silver helmets. With that, I introduce you to the projected 2009 Detroit Lions starting lineup.
Projection based on player who will get the most starts at that position throughout the entire season. Not necessarily Week 1 starters.
Offensive Line
|
This Year |
Last Year |
|
LT - Jeff Backus |
LT - Jeff Backus |
|
LG - Daniel Loper |
LG - Edwin Mulitalo |
|
C - Dominic Raiola |
C - Dominic Raiola |
|
RG - Stephen Peterman |
RG - Stephen Peterman |
|
RT - Gosder Cherilus |
RT - Gosder Cherilus |
While the offensive line looks relatively unchanged, the Lions actually did a lot to make this unit better. Loper played a backup role on Tennessee's team, which featured one of the best linemen crew in the NFL. Loper got some playing time in the playoffs last year and held his own.
In addition to the acquisition of Loper, the Lions added plenty of depth. Jon Jansen, Toniu Fonoti and Lydon Murtha are all new players who could certainly see some playing time this year. Jansen, a Michigan native, is a veteran who can provide valuable mentorship for Cherilus, who is entering his second year and has shown flashes of potential. Fonoti's size will give him a good chance to make the roster and get some reps at guard. Murtha, a seventh round draft pick, may be a long-shot to play this year, but, injuries aside, Murtha has shown plenty of potential to be a contributor down the road for this organization.
Overall, this unit has improved significantly. While only one starter has changed, Cherilus is improving and the addition of solid backups should give the starters the occasional breather that they may need on game day.
Receivers and TE
|
This Year |
Last Year |
|
WR - Calvin Johnson |
WR - Calvin Johnson |
|
WR - Bryant Jonhson |
WR - Roy Williams |
|
WR - Dennis Northcutt |
WR - Mike Furrey/Shaun McDonald |
|
TE - Brandon Pettigrew |
TE - Michael Gaines/John Owens |
Once again, the Lions' wideouts look different than they did the year before. The underperforming Williams was shipped away to Dallas (HI, COWBOYS FANS!) for a first, third and sixth round pick, Furrey and McDonald were replaced by free agent pickups B. Johnson and Ronald Curry. Even after all of these moves, the Lions were not done as they recently traded safety Gerald Alexander for the veteran Northcutt.
But perhaps the biggest addition to this group is first round draft pick and the top tight end prospect in the 2009 draft Pettigrew. He should immediately give the offensive line a boost for the running game. Last year, the Lions struggled to find a solid tight end on their roster. And while I called the idea of drafting Pettigrew "ludicrous" in March, it was an area of need that was filled by the best player available.
Overall, I would say this new crew is probably very similar in talent to last year's receivers. B. Johnson will be a solid number two receiver, but won't be as flashy as Roy. Northcutt and Curry should also be fairly solid options as the slot receiver, on par with the Furrey/McDonald team of the last few years. Draft pick Derrick Williams is unlikely to get much playing time as a receiver but may relieve Lions fans of the extremely mediocre play of Aveion Cason on special teams.
Quarterback and Running Backs
|
This Year |
Last Year |
|
QB - Matthew Stafford |
QB - Kitna/Orlovsky/Culpepper |
|
RB1 - Kevin Smith |
RB 1 - Kevin Smith |
|
RB2 - Maurice Morris |
RB 2 - Rudi Johnson |
|
FB - Jerome Felton |
FB - Moran Norris |
The only real notable change here is obviously Stafford. I project him to start the most games at quarterback this year, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he is the starter on week one at New Orleans. He's been pretty impressive during organized team activities (OTAs) in the offseason. And while players were also raving about Culpepper's play, the Lions stand to gain more by starting Stafford as soon as he's ready. Depending on his progression through training camp and the preseason, Stafford could start as early as week one but no later than the Lions' bye week in week seven.
The addition of Morris is not likely to add much more than Rudi brought to the table last year. The battle for the starting fullback position, however, is quite intriguing (well, at least as intriguing as anything fullback related can get). Second year Felton is looking to outplay veteran addition Terrelle Smith. Smith has plenty of experience as fullback, but is hardly used as an offensive threat. Felton, however, is much more versatile. He had nine receptions last year, and can also be used as a rushing threat. Although the Lions don't plan on using the fullback position much as an offensive threat, Felton's flexibility and youth should win him the starting job.
Defensive Line
|
This Year |
Last Year |
|
RDE - Cliff Avril |
RDE - DeWayne White |
|
DT - Grady Jackson |
DT - Cory Redding |
|
DT - Chuck Darby |
DT - Chuck Darby |
|
LDE - Jared DeVries |
LDE - Jared DeVries |
The 2009 defensive line will become the biggest liability of the Lions this year. This is perhaps the only position that the Lions downgraded this year. This unit may improve a little if Kevin Carter is signed (as he can play both DE and DT), but as of now, things look bleak. Avril was a surprise last year (four sacks in last six games) and will most likely improve this year. He's going to have to beat out White, who has been consistently good, but not outstanding.
Inside, the Lions lost the inconsistent, but powerful, body of Redding and replaced him with Jackson. Jackson is a big enough to replace him, but he's getting towards the end of his career and won't be able to play outside of short-yardage situations. Rookie Sammie Lee Hill is a project that won't get any playing time this year, but if he responds well to teaching may be a dominant force a couple years down the line.
This unit was horrid last year, giving up an incredible amount of rushing yards (172/game). This year, things might be even worse.
Linebackers
|
This Year |
Last Year |
|
WLB - Ernie Sims |
WLB - Ernie Sims |
|
MLB - Larry Foote |
MLB - Paris Lenon |
|
SLB - Julian Peterson |
SLB - Ryan Nece |
On the flip side, the linebacker position was upgraded immensely this offseason. The Lions finally got their middle linebacker in Foote, who wanted to come back to his home town of Detroit. Foote will likely end the carousel of players that the Lions tried in the middle. Similarly, the Lions picked up five-time Pro Bowler Peterson in a trade with Seattle. Peterson provides a great compliment to Sims, and will also be a valuable pass rusher. Peterson's rush can help with the front four's ability to pressure the quarterback.
The addition of two, veteran players is immediately going to make Sims a better player. Sims will have trust in his teammates and will be able to focus solely on his duties. These veterans will also allow newly drafted DeAndre Levy and Zack Follett to learn under the best.
Not only did the Lions acquire quality starters in this department, but they also built a solid foundation for the future of this position.
Defensive Backs
|
This Year |
Last Year |
|
CB - Phillip Buchanon |
CB - Leigh Bodden |
|
CB - Anthony Henry |
CB - Travis Fisher |
|
S - Louis Delmas |
SS - Kalvin Pearson |
|
S - Daniel Bullocks |
FS - Daniel Bullocks |
Admittedly, this is more of a hope than a projection. In my dream scenario, Bullocks, my man-crush, plays outstanding during training camp and earns the starting spot. If he fills this void, Henry can stay at cornerback, where the Lions are particularly thin, rather than move back to safety.
Anyways, Henry was brought aboard to replace voids left by Bodden, who was too expensive to keep, and Fisher's release. The Lions got Henry by robbing the Cowboys once again (HI COWBOYS FANS!) while only giving up Kitna, who was probably ready to move on anyways. The Lions also nabbed Buchanon from free agency, who will certainly fill one of the cornerback spots on the roster. In addition, the Lions signed Eric King, who has solidified himself as the nickel back. King may compete for a starting job, especially if Henry is pushed back to safety.
Delmas is already wowing people in OTAs. His mix of speed and hitting ability has elated coaches. If he lives up to the hype he's getting, he may be Detroit's best offseason addition.
This group looks much different than last year's team. However, different does not always mean better. Last year, hopes were high for newcomers Bodden and Pearson. Thoughts were that Bodden may be the most underrated corner in the league. Things obviously didn't pan out here in Detroit, and they may not with this new crew. But, much like the rest of the roster, the secondary needed to be altered, and the new coaching staff did a fairly decent job of it.
In April, the Lions changed the face of the organization when they updated their old logo. In truth, they've been overhauling the old Lions since Jim Schwartz was hired. While the new logo bears quite the resemblance to the old one, the new roster looks nothing like the old one. In total, 14 of the 24 positions I listed have new starters. While the talent of these new names is still a mystery, one thing is for certain, this is no longer your 2008, Matt Millen, Rod Marinelli 0-16 Detroit Lions. This is something different.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit's main writer, Sean, or the site in general. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
2 recs |
35 comments
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Comments
Great work
Front-paged.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
by Sean Yuille on Jul 9, 2009 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good job!
I still am not getting excited about anything before the first game of the season though.
This is so awesome... it's like i'm watching the daily shows version of the draft..
by MatthewDC on Apr 25, 2009 7:35 PM EDT
by mrcooms on Jul 9, 2009 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good list
But I disagree on a few points…..
1) Grady Jackson – He will be a situational player, and therefore not a stater. Darby will be one of the starters at DT and the other will be either Fulellen or Cohen, depending on whether or not we can sign a better free agent.
2) Matt Stafford – I’m not going to get into a long argument here….I will simply say that I believe Daunte Culpepper will play until he gets injured (if he gets injured) this year. Stafford will take over next year.
3) Daniel Bullocks – All of the talk has been about how great Kalvin Pearson looks this pre-season and how timid Bullocks has looked. We can all hope that Bullocks will return to rookie form, pre-injury, but in reality we will likely see Pearson and Delmas as the starting safties. This is especially true sense Schwartz calls the safties “right and left safties” and does not care for the terms “Strong and free safety”. He expects both safeties to be able to come up in run support and also cover when needed.
4) Jerome Felton – From what I have been reading, Terrelle Smith is projected as the starter at FB. The Lions do not seem to be planning to use the FB as an offensive weapon, as you stated, and Smith is a much better run blocker than Felton.
5) Dennis Northcutt – I see Northcutt as a return man. I do not see him starting in the slot. I believe he was brought in to compete for return duties and mentor Derrick Williams. Ronald Curry will play the slot.
The one thing that your post makes even more blatantly obvious is our lack of depth at DT. We are in a very bad position on the D-line in my opinion. I genuinely hope that Cohen or Fluellen can step it up in a big way, or that Sammie Lee Hill shocks the world with his unknown ability to assimilate. If we do not find some more help on the D-line, specifically at DT, I think we could be in for another long year of not being able to pressure opposing QBs.
When you give a good QB (which most are at the NFL level) time to sit back and read the defense, go through progressions, and find open receivers, it does not matter how good you are at trying to mask your coverage….you will be picked apart. I feel that this is especially true since we have one corner who should be a safety (and who has obviously lost a step), and another who has been in the Tampa 2 for quite awhile now, not playing close man coverage since he played in Oakland. Those things, coupled with the fact that we have a rookie projected to start at safety and another safety position that is really up in the air at this point, will make it very difficult for me to believe we can be successful on defense without a strong pass rush. Yes we have a much better linebacker core, which should be able to put some pressure on the QB and also help stop big runs from happening all day long, but if there is no push by the defensive line, it will also be difficult even for the best of our linebackers to find a way to the QB.
by KDawg on Jul 9, 2009 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
While I don't believe our D-Line is competent yet
I don’t think our ability to get pressure on the QB was horrific. We did manage 30 sacks, which is average, but not at the bottom of the league. If Cliff Avril has a good season and with Peterson’s help, we may see that sack total pushed up into the high 30’s. That’s not too bad for this line. Our problem is stopping the run, if we can’t hold opposition runners to less than a 100 yds than I see losses in the cards.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Jul 9, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HE, If we are able to hold teams to 120 yards per game I will be very happy.
I don’t think we have the personnel to make the jump from 172 YPG to less than 100 YPG. Our defence is currently the worst against the run, I would like to see us around 20th.
by NorthLeft12 on Jul 9, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I mainly meant keeping the 1st string rushers under 100 yds.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Jul 10, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
KDawg...
Agree that it sounds like Smith will start at fullback and that the DT position is quite worrisome.
But I’m not sure that Curry is a slot receiver. Has he ever played there before? Not sure if I have any tape on Oakland, but I’ll have to check. I think Northcutt will end up in the slot. He just produces more consistently (40 balls a year).
Also, don’t forget about Peterson and Avril as part of the pass rush. If Hill can contribute, both he and Jackson should be able to clog the middle a bit and between Avril, Peterson and White… we should see the sack total improve. Boy, would I like to see a miracle happen and somebody of value at the DT position come available, though. Not saying our pass rush will be good, but perhaps better? We’ll see.
One more thing… are you sure you don’t want a Round 3 on the Stafford vs. Culpepper issue? :<)
by DrewsLions on Jul 9, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol....you got the dime, I got the time.....
Just don’t make me make you my bish….;o)
by KDawg on Jul 9, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd steal the dime and make the time...
And I guarantee I won’t let you make me your b*tch! Kiddin’, man. I actually think I’m pretty exhausted on the topic. And really… Stafford’s gonna start anyway, so is there really anything to discuss? ;<)
by DrewsLions on Jul 9, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your right Drew
Staff will start . . .after Dr. Pepper get’s his pro-bowl birth this year.And yes I AM on the communion wine tonight.
by davis0169 on Jul 11, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Somehow, I just can't say...
the words “Pro-Bowl QB” and “Culpepper” consecutively. My money is on Stafford getting a Pro-Bowl before Culpepper. My other bet is that Culpepper is out of the league by the time Stafford turns 25. So as you can see… I’m quite excited about Daunte… he really looks fit this year!
(if you can’t tell, tongue firmly planted in cheek)
by DrewsLions on Jul 11, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very good post sc! I agree with almost all of your comments.
My minor disagreements;
1. Maurice Morris is a huge upgrade over Rudi. Mo can catch the ball and was still effective as a runner last year averaging 4.3 yards per carry. Rudi was awful last year, 3.1 YPC.
2. E. Salaam is much more likely to get playing time at tackle than Murtha. I would be surprised if Murtha makes the roster. I see him as a practice squad guy. Who would he push off the roster in the O line?
3. The defensive line. Especially the Tackles. I don’t know what to say. I believe this will turn into a merry go round. Avril will probably [hopefully] get the most plays of any lineman, and DeVries and White will get their share at end, but the Lions are desperate for Fluellen or Hill to step up and take one of the starting Tackle positions. Jackson, besides his looming suspension, is 36 and just not that effective anymore. Darby is going on 34 and was never great shakes to begin with. They are okay in a rotation but if we are depending on them to be the starters we are in big trouble.
Excellent analysis sc, nice to have you back.
by NorthLeft12 on Jul 9, 2009 7:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have been worried about our D Line since they let go of Shaun Rogers
For all of Rogers’ faults, and they are many, he was a real roadblock in the middle of the line. I would have hoped that the Lions would have more aggressively tried to fill that hole, last year and this year.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Hill, but as you noted, he is pretty raw and not likely to contribute much this year. I am not expecting a lot from Fluellen.
But, as our good friend and fellow Stafford lover Drew will remind us, this is a rebuilding process and it is unrealistic to expect us to fill all the holes in one year.
Progress. That’s all I ask for. Progress.
by NorthLeft12 on Jul 9, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree on Rogers
Look at 2007. First half of the year he was an animal, capped off by our beating of the Broncos and his INT for a TD. After that, he basically disappeared and we finished the year 1-7. Man, if only he played like he did in those first 8 games.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
by Sean Yuille on Jul 10, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree Sean, Shaun was a frustrating guy to cheer for.
All World one week, gassed on the bench in the first quarter next week.
by NorthLeft12 on Jul 10, 2009 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he would have just sat down
and rested after that INT against Denver, instead of returning it 66 yards, he could have saved some of his energy and motivation for later. The game was a blowout anyway. Instead, he was out of breath for the rest of the season.
66 extra yards worth of Shaun Rogers domination would have been pretty nice during the 1-7 stretch at the second half of 2007.
by n4ry4 on Jul 10, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So rumblin, bumblin, and stumblin 66 yards broke his motor?
Sounds like a Chevy…..LOL J/K GM lovers….:o)
The Lions are STILL trying to replace Shaun Rogers. The only problem is they have now tried to replace him with a guy that is 6 years older and probably even more lazy than he was. At least the coaching staff realizes what a difference Rogers made against the run….and now they are hoping that Jackson can do some of the same.
The problem with Jackson, as many of us know, is that he will be a situational player…..not a 3 down starter. This means that he will not have as much of an impact on the D-line as we had hoped. If our young defensive linemen do not step up and prove that they deserve to be on the team, and if we can not establish a good pass rush……we are in a bunch of trouble. That said, I would LOVE to have Big Baby back at this point. Hell, I would even buy him one of those massive cheeseburgers we saw here awhile back!
by KDawg on Jul 10, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We've all seen it happen
Sometimes a Free Agent, a UFA. or a Rookie steps up and has a stellar year. We can only hope. The Kool-aid tastes great with Jim Beam!
by dylan415 on Jul 10, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
the most frustrating…one minute you wonder where he was…probably as mentioned grabbing oxygen…then the next you wonder if anyone was blocking him…
by londonlion on Jul 10, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
weeks? what is this weeks that you all speak of?
I don’t ever remember Mr. Rodgers ever playing in the nieghborhood for a full 4 quarters. It was ore like 1 or 2 series then he might show up for a couple of plays in the second or third quarter. He needed a ride on the trollie.
by davis0169 on Jul 11, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Rogers' defence, he did more in one series than most defenders do in a whole game.
The guy is a defensive playmaker. He is not perfect, but good enough to make the Pro Bowl three times.
by NorthLeft12 on Jul 11, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, I disagree
I don’t understand this meme, “Big Baby was great in the first half of 2007”. The two worst no-shows I’ve ever seen from Rogers were Week 3 and Week 5 of 2007—the Philly and Washington road games. Both teams absolutely abused Rogers, pushing him around like he wasn’t even there. The Lions literally could have run anyone else out there and gotten more push up the middle; it was infuriating.
In 2007, Rogers would take every first half or so off and see how the team was doing. If it was close in the late third, he’d magically reappear and get a crucial sack or two. The correlation was, Rogers would show up only when the Lions being close to winning anyway (i.e., it might be ‘worth the effort’).
Peace
Ty
http://thelionsinwinter.blogspot.com
by ty@thelionsinwinter on Jul 14, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good post, simscity
Pretty good breakdown of the roster. I won’t nitpick as I agree with most of what’s stated. I think it’ll come as no surprise to anyone here (especially KDawg) that I agree completely with your Stafford analysis. He’s my current man-crush… okay, so he’s been that for about six months now… leave me alone about it! :)
The only thing I think I’d like to see them do is move Henry to safety and pick up another veteran street free agent for depth at corner (let them fight to start opposite Buchanon). Schwartz wants his safeties to be able to cover in his scheme. Henry can do that and it might just mask his diminished speed by allowing him to start the snap 15yds downfield.
I just think it might be easier to find a serviceable FA corner than safety. Sorry bud… I just don’t have the confidence in Bullocks anymore. Watch his tape from last year. He was way too inconsistent and always comes into frame behind the play – meaning his reads are incorrect or slow. I think the coaching staff is testing him right now. I really hope he bounces back and finds new life within this scheme.
by DrewsLions on Jul 10, 2009 8:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have been saying it since last year....
If we give Felton the ball once in a while, the interior of the opponents defense will have to tighten up…The guy can carry the ball and is faster than most fullbacks…Get the D-Line pinched down, that helps everything to the outside.
Felton could easily be a Kevin Mack style guy
http://cmufootball.blogspot.com/
by CapitolLions on Jul 11, 2009 8:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree
i have been a fan of felton since last preseason. i like his diversity…can definately use some work & maturity in blocking…but give the guy some minutes and i’m sure he developes. that said, he must be lacking grit or something…something we don’t see in practices and ota’s…but none the less i am a fan. i have him as my fb in madden and the kid does great for me. but that is madden. he has speed, hands, can run the ball…won’t jar a lb out of a hole, but can run block out on the edge & lead the way.
by londonlion on Jul 11, 2009 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
roster overview
Not to challenge anyone on how the Lineup will be this year with all the position’s being open as they are.However I was just remembering that we have another CB that wasn’t mentioned and yet has been doing pretty well in the OTA’s and I believe that he is a Smith also. Keith Smith if I remember correctly. Not that this solidifies anything in the back field .
As far as the DTs go I am also hoping for some Miracles with Fluellen,and Cohen.
The fact that they have been aloud to put some extra weight on and hit the
by 4thand2 on Jul 11, 2009 6:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
09 roster
i agree with most of what was posted. i think the offensive line right now is good, only because we have quality guys we can rotate in, so that everyone can stay fresh, and hopefully accrue less injuries.
my concerns are with the secondary and the defensive line. i would have really liked to have seen a more concerted effort with getting a defensive tackle, as all the tape last year showed very little resistance in stopping the run and defending against the pass. none of the d-tackles on our roster scare anyone except lions fans, as it looks like there will be little change from last year with this bunch. im with kdawg, id love to have big shaun back in our lineup as well.
the only player in the secondary that excites me is delmas, but even with that, there is still a learning curve he must go through. henry and buchanon are decent corners, but henry bites on double moves, and buchanon can get beat deep. keith smith is “eternal potential” but gets hurt every year, and bullocks, who i was excited about coming out of college needs to show that he is mentally over the knee injury. if he can, i think he could be a force at strong safety.
still, to be 0-16, i think we have done an admirable job in laying the foundation in getting this turned around.
by big smoove on Jul 12, 2009 8:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice Work
This post must have taken some time. I have been itchin’ for some more info, and it just isn’t available. The link to walterfootball.com is pretty impressive as well.
Let’s hope that the some July cuts will become available and help out. The John Thornton issue did not go too well. He would have been a welcomed addition. I am assuming some cap/camp casualties will become available that can help on the interior. We need something. If we can add a decent run stopping DT (other than Jackson) it will help out our rotation quite a bit.
Hopefully, this staff has added some talent and created a bit of a core. Next year, they need to fill the holes that have not been addressed this year. I believe some dead weight has been left behind as well. That dead weight will be identified and dealt with next year. Some of these young draft picks (Levy, Hill…etc.) will be able to contribute without starting. Don’t forget about Dizon either. I haven’t given up on him yet. He may surprise some people.
As for this year, I don’t see it going to well. Look for the team to gel a little and some talent to rise. Next year will be very telling.
by The Maestro on Jul 13, 2009 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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