Tempering Expectations
by DrewsLions on Aug 23, 2009 12:31 PM EDT
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PrintDisclaimer: This is not a post about drowning excitement or expecting less on the field. It's about context. It's about making sure that fans remember what this team is recovering from and what it's going to take to get where we need to go.
There's got to be a silver lining, right? Last night's horrendous loss to Cleveland has to have some positive side to it, doesn't it? I think it does. I think it's a reminder to us all that this team was 0-16 last year and that all of those holes simply couldn't be filled in one off-season. It's a work in progress and might be for a year or two more. Last night's performance only reiterated that we, the Lions faithful, need to have some patience this season and temper our expectations a little. That doesn't mean that we can't be excited or expect a better product... we should expect a better product. In fact, we should demand a better product each and every year. But we should also remember what this team was last year and that it's going to take some time. Progress should be taken as a term relative to the Lions themselves. Progress for these Lions is a couple of wins - literally. It's that particular context that I think we need to remember when we see our inconsistent Lions trying to take steps forward.
The last few weeks, the Kool-Aid has been flowing generously - as it usually is this time of year. Last night's game brought our excitement crashing back down to reality. All of those thoughts of Stafford being invincible and a lock to be successful quarterback unraveled a bit. All of a sudden, we got a glimpse of how he could fail. That was a bit scary for me personally. Over the course of weeks and months, we build this team up to a level that it might not yet be capable of playing. Then we all get the wind knocked out of our sails when things don't go right. This is football. Games can snowball in a hurry. The Browns no doubt caught us off-guard last night and we weren't able to respond and match their intensity. The Lions aren't yet contenders and will be inconsistent until the rookies are ready and the remaining holes are filled. That is... sadly... going to take some time.
After you sit back and digest the game in context, it's a bit silly to get all worked up about the Lions performance and Stafford's more specifically. After all, it's only a preseason game and there is time to clean things up. Stafford will have two more games to improve and show us his capabilities. If he's not ready, he's not ready and Culpepper will get a chance to prove his worth. If Stafford is ready, he'll still struggle from time to time. That's the nature of being a rookie in the NFL. If it was easy, everyone would succeed. I still have no doubts that he has the tools to be a good NFL quarterback, I just think it might take a few more talented players for the team around him to come together. Let's remember what those quarterbacks have had for receivers the last two weeks. It can't be easy for them to succeed with that to work with. Basically, they have third string receivers going against a first string secondary. So again, let's put last night into context and remember that this team is the preseason version and a continuous work in progress. There is still a lot of room for excitement and optimism with this team. There are going to be ups and downs, but this team is still much better than last year. I can confidently say that even after watching last night's game.
I will try to find the time to do the play-by-play analysis over the next few days and hopefully I will be able to see some positives in an otherwise dreary outing.
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Drew....
….I agree with your post……however I do think that a lot of Staffords passes would have been caught if the 3 starting wides were playing…..that being said he didnt look comfortable…..I think he was trying to hard to impress the staff……The run defense is a lot better……Def only gave up 13 pts in the 1st half….All in the 1st….So all in all not bad……Just started bad……I stil like this team ti win 4 or 5 games and that Stafford will start week 1
by BennieBladesFan on Aug 23, 2009 12:35 PM EDT reply actions
Cheer up Chum!
They wont throw Stafford under the Ford F150 until mid way through the season. Let me tell you, Culpepper is starting week 1. Why? Because it is his job to lose. And his job to be eaten’ up by James Harrison Week 5.
It is Stafford’s job to be comfortable in the pocket. That is why he has the big bucks. If you do not think he “looked” comfortable then what do you expect he might look like against Chicago or Baltimore? Stafford should learn from the rookie mistakes he has already made in the past 2 weeks. Hopefully he rebounds from this with some confidence. Pre-Season is the time to make some mistakes and shake off rust right?
Seriously. Stafford wont start until November at least.
I disagree.....
……Any qb would be nervous against chi or balt……I think its october at the latest that Staff starts……Ryan made lots of mistakes last year in Atl preseason…..he did ok week 1 and after.
by BennieBladesFan on Aug 23, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice post Drew
Can you pay attention to the D-Line, particularly in the first quarter? I thought they were a big part of that run the Browns got going. At first glance, the O-Line was actually decent, maybe the tape will reveal more of this.
We didn't lose the games, we just ran out of time -- Bobby Layne
buck up lion fans
rome wasn’t built in one preseason game, as a saints fan i really feel your pain. i didn’t come here to rub it in, but to say i’ve been in ya’ll shoes and , though the road is long , ya’ll are heading in the right direction (i think).
what ever you do don’t look at the highlights of the saints’ rout of the texans.
looking forward to our date in the superdome.
I agree 100%
After the first game, everyone including myself wanted to crown Staff as the next great rookie QB and while that still possible, we should all realize that both the Falcons and Ravens had stellar supprting cast for these you QBs. I guess my main concern is the defense or lackthereof. Calvin and smith will get there scores but it look like once again this team is a joke defnsively…no pass rush, bad coverage, and worst of all missed tackles
Your Post.....
….seems to make sense that Stafford should start……I mean were not going to make the playoffs anyway so why not let Staff play?…..Remember all the wides are out……..Id rather go 2 -14 with Staff then Culpepper.
by BennieBladesFan on Aug 23, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing is....
We will not go 2-14 with Culpepper. It seems like everyone wants to give Matt Stafford a pass for his dismal performance, simply because he did not have our best receivers out there with him. The problem with that logic is that DC came in with even worse receivers (and some of the same ones) and did just fine. If Matt Stafford continues to play with the inconsistency we saw between games 1 and 2 of the preseason, what that says to me is that he is not ready. Daunte Culpepper has shown more consistency and he is ready to lead us this year. I say he gets the nod, and Stafford takes some more time to develop. He was the #1 draft pick, so I can understand that everyone has high expectations. Whether or not those expectations are realistic or not is the actual question, and as I have been saying, I do not think they are.
We KNow Your Not.....
…..a fan of Staff…..culpepper was just dumping the ball off last night…..I like the fact that Staff took some chances with those backups……I dont hate Culpepper I just think Staff is the real deal and he will be ready for opening Sunday……Its like you said remember its just preseason……Dont read to much into Staff performace…..Hes just getting the rust off and getting ready to lead the Lions.
by BennieBladesFan on Aug 23, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Not true
I am most definitely a new fan of Matt Stafford. He is a Detroit Lion. However, I am a fan of the TEAM before I am a fan of the rookie QB. Like I said before, I think the coaches already know who the week 1 starter will be. I think that man is Daunte Culpepper.
And Daunte's longest completion was 20 yards and he also had....
completions of 9, 12, 13, and 14 yards. Matt Stafford threw 3 long passes (all incomplete) and the other 10 passes were all short to short middle routes (dink and dunk passes that he only completed half of).
Daunte Culpepper threw 4 deep passes (1 complete to Looker for 20 yds) and the rest were short to short middle routes (dink and dunk passes that he completed 75% of).
Don’t believe me? Go check the play by play.
I Believe Ya
Im just a Stff fan is all……Im not giving him a free pass at all……I just think that this team needs to start Staff sometime this year and why not week 1 if hes ready
by BennieBladesFan on Aug 23, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Cullcrapper is nothin special and hasnt realy showed anything to win the starting job
all he does is throw to his check downs every play least the kid isn’t scared to sling that ball around….
Great post; couldn't agree more
One preseason game doesn’t mean a whole lot, but we all should probably remember this team has a lot of work to do.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
I've gotta baaaaad feeling about this...
…And how can we be sertain, that the starting WR would have helped a brother out, the only one we know, as a matter of fact, is the Megatron. These guys need to be on the field, developing timing w/ the QBs, or it aint gonna happen. It became rather apparent that DC’s gonna start, some of Matt’s passes were just arrent, without target. For that matter, one could make a case for Stanton starting, although he’s goin against 2nd & 3rd guys, these guys are all fightin for a roster spot, their dreams, their careers, so you’d better believe it’s more than “just preseason” for alot of these guys. But, having said that Stanton’s looked agrguable the best of all 3 QBs, from what it sounds like, it’s kinda been like that in practice, him being the only 1 who seems to be able to move the ball, or score TD’s. Hopefully they can get it together in the next coupla weeks.
Good Post
I agree on some points but Stafford did look good, more times than not. And hie decisions need to be quicker. He will get alot better. And only (hopefully) when he is ready for the speed of the NFL will he start. I say week 2. Against Favre and All DAY. That D is fast and smart, but by then we will see he has learned from the preseason. I want 5 wins this year. We are capable of that. GP LIONS.
by proud to bleed light blue on Aug 23, 2009 2:47 PM EDT reply actions
He looked good 5 times out of 13 pass attempts.....
I don’t know what game you were watching, but even the passes that were catchable were thrown high.
I agree.....
…….he was just 5 of 13……5 drops hurt that percentage….yes the throws wernt all perfect but my dad always told me in my football days…..If the ball hits your hands you shoulda caught it….Always stuck with me…….Those Wides dropped lots of passes…..Enough said…….More then not he looked just fine to me last night……he was confident and clapping trying to get his guysinto the game as they seemed tro be stuck in the mud.,….thats what leaders do.
by BennieBladesFan on Aug 23, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
It's been a rebuilding year for 15 years
It’s been a rebuilding year for 15 years now ! Ford Field should have a sign out front that says “all abandon hope, he who enter here”. And for this new hot shot in town, I’m not got getting my hopes up about Stanford. I still have a salty taste in my mouth from Harrington.
by CAN'T GET WORSE.. CAN IT? on Aug 23, 2009 3:01 PM EDT reply actions
harrington look good last night
he had 2 tds, and no picks, he’s really pushing brunel for the backup spot in NO
one more thing
injuries. Dear God it’s happening already.
by CAN'T GET WORSE.. CAN IT? on Aug 23, 2009 3:06 PM EDT reply actions
Everything I was hoping for
this season seems to be on the right track. So far, alot better play from the defense. The younger player seem to be stepping up. Stafford has shown flashes of being a very good starting QB. But he still is a rookie. But the most significant. Is the play calling. Both, on offense and defense. Has been a very good improvement over last season.
This just establishes my point even further...
Stafford has the potential to be great and he has potential to turn into the next Joey Harrington… If we want to bring Staffod to greatness he needs to sit the sideline and watch the veteran go to work. He will get better holding that clipboard. Steve Young rode the bench watching the great Montana for a while. Granted Culpepper is not Montana by any means. He is still a very seasoned QB. I say sign Culpepper for another year or two, let Stafford sit behind him until we get the team to where it needs to be and then let the rookie take the job.
Live and Die by the LIONS
I agree
At least one year holding the clipboard would do the kid some good, and I do not believe that playing him right away will be any better than having him learn from the sidelines.
Peyton Has Always Said....
…..He learned more playing on a bad team his rookie uyear and starting from day 1…..he said that if he would have sat that year he would have been 3 yrs behind…….This is why I say play Staff
by BennieBladesFan on Aug 23, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish I had been the one asking him the questions
I would have said, “So you mean to tell me that you were so inadequate in the brains and brawn departments that playing immediately turned you into Superman, whereas sitting for a year would have rendered you as powerless as Clark Kent without a cape and blue tights?” Then I would have laughed in his stupid face and called him a lying, pompous, AHOLE! What a F-ing joke. No wonder this country is running itself into the ground. People will believe anything they hear or read. Try using your own mind and seeing things with an unbiased perspective before you come to conclusions. Not only that, but Matt Stafford is not Peyton Manning, the Lions are not the Colts, and Matt Stafford’s Dad is not Archie F-ing Manning! Shiny got into the game with the first team offense and he sucked, period. You can try to butter his bread any way you choose, but I’m not going to eat it because I know that butter is really horseshi*. The kid IS damn good for a ROOKIE. He is NOT ready and the team that surrounds him is not ready to support a newb at QB either. Don’t kid yourselves anymore…..Daunte Culpepper will be the starter week 1, and when he starts lighting it up you will all be glad we didn’t start the rook.
I did think you were a little hard on Peyton...lol
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Aug 23, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
but
Aaron Rodgers sat for 3 years behind Farve and look what he did last year and how he looks now. I would like to see Stafford sit this year and then start him next year.
"When life deals you lemons, make lemonade."
That would be it
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Aug 23, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I want to sit Stafford this year...
But not THAT long… After all, we don’t want him to turn into Matt Leinart.
ugh....
I was hoping that this post would not turn into this. I did not mean for this to become a “Stafford had a bad game, so I’m calling all Culpepper advocates” forum. I think it’s amazing what a week can do. Last week, everyone was chanting “Stafford in week 1”, now everyone wants to sit him. Geez. Culpepper was far from great last night. He’s in conservative mode to try to show consistency… which he feels is his chance to beat out the rookie. Even after last night, I think Stafford is better for this team right here and now. All you bandwagoneers who are going to go week-to-week waffling back and forth from Stafford to Culpepper just chill. If the difference is going to be 5 wins with Culpepper and 3 wins with Stafford… I’ll take the 3 wins with Stafford and get him the experience. I love how everyone was praising his maturity and decision making last week and now he’s frazzled and shattered. Ha! He’s the same friggin’ quarterback he was last week. Just had a bad outing, that’s all. Let it play out. If he has two more horrible games and Daunte is that much better, fine. But until then…. let it play out.
Almost everyone on this site was impressed with him after game 1. Now, he’s chopped liver. No… he’s a rookie and rookies can be inconsistent. If I thought we had any better chance to have a winning season with Culpepper over Stafford, I’d be backing Culpepper for the starting position… but I don’t. Daunte has looked good, not anywhere close to great. Stafford’s taken some risks, Culpepper hasn’t. Some have worked out, some haven’t. I’d rather have a risk taker learning under center, than a check-down happy vet living to play another down…. not coming off an 0-16 season.
It was inevitable...
…and I’m sure there will be more of the same following this upcoming game, the last pre-season game, and every game thereafter until Stafford becomes a winning quarterback. I mean the reality is that even once he is the full fledged starter he has to be the starting quarterback in Detroit. Hell, Redwings fans can’t even agree on whether or not Chris Osgood is any good after all these years.
This type of discussion doesn’t actually suprise you does it?
No, it doesn't surprise me
I was just hoping everyone wouldn’t fall off the Stafford wagon after one poor performance and well… obviously it happened. Hero to goat in a week. Sometimes I can actually empathize with what Lion’s players go through. We are a very, very fickle bunch.
Extremely!
I didn’t get to watch the game Saturday, but outside of the results…how did he look? From everything I’ve read, it sounded like he showed the fact that he was a rookie.
Honestly though, I thought he looked like a rookie last week too, but what I was impressed with is how he looked AS A ROOKIE!
That arm is much better than I had given him credit for, and was clearly capable of at least going through his progressions. I still think no matter how long he plays in this league he’s going to make throws he shouldn’t (ala Brett Favre), but you almost have to live with that when he makes throws that others couldn’t.
If he flat out stunk on Saturday then I would say some of the flip-flopping is justified. However, if he was still showing zip on some throws and touch on others, still going through his reads (when the line gives him time), then those are the things I’m going to be excited about.
Mushy...
he had a pretty bad game. He didn’t look very comfortable in the pocket and the interception was all on him. His receivers did have a few drops… 2 or 3 by my count. But he was forcing throws and had a few sail on him. There were a few times were he had time to throw, but just didn’t get it done. I don’t think his receivers helped him one bit. Both he and Culpepper were not getting through their progressions very well, so I;m sure this was a by-product of poor downfield route running. I didn’t care for the playcalling either.
Look, this is a perfect opportunity for Stafford to show he has a short memory and come back and show how he can rebound next week. Contrary to many.. I wasn’t that impressed with Culpepper either. I would say he was much more efficient than Stafford, but… not to continue the redundancy… he played it safe and didn’t get the ball in the end zone. Culpepper for sure had the better day… against the number two defense… let’s be fair here.
In my mind, there is still more than a competition here. This thing is not written in stone yet and I doubt Schwartz will rush to judgment after two games (unlike some Lion’s fans). Both quarterbacks still have time to make their mark. May the best QB win.
Next Harrington???
Stafford has more talent in his right pinky then Joey……Arm Strength is 10 times better then Joey…..i think we all new Joey was a wasted pick…..I doubt anyone bought a #3 jersey…..At least I hope not.
by BennieBladesFan on Aug 23, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
agree
but i did buy it damn ;(. plus staffords personality is much different then joeys Staffords team believes in him unlike joey
Kevin Smith let em kno, Ernie Sims Break em, Calvin Johnson you already Kno
2009 Detroit Lions 6-10 to 8-8
by DetroitLions 4 life on Aug 23, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
We did?
Back when he came up, Harrington was the Savior, and the #3 jerseys sold very well, even if most of them got burned or buried soon after. There were lots of people unhappy with the decision, there were just as many wholly on board, praising him to the rafters, swearing that he was going to be the greatest quarterback, just as you’re hyping up Stafford (and all your other mancrushes :)
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Now We Know
Stafford weeds to stay in the pocket to pass, Stafford has decent mobility and the ability to tread the needle, Stafford will have a long season if he starts game one and his receivers are missing like they have been the first two games. Fans, boggers and writers especially need to remember that the Two Johnsons, Calvin and Bryant will be in attendance as receivers this season. Should be a much improved squad, more talent than the last five years combined. The coaching staff seems to have a clue and the players are more talented.
PLUS
dennis northcutt and Brandon pettigrew and casey fitz
Kevin Smith let em kno, Ernie Sims Break em, Calvin Johnson you already Kno
2009 Detroit Lions 6-10 to 8-8
by DetroitLions 4 life on Aug 23, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Good going Drew
I posted on the game recap about how we seemed to be a bit fickle right now. Maybe it’s because we all want to succeed so badly and the pain of losing more games is too much to bear. Like I said in that comment, the pre-season is only half over, that gives us a whole lot more playing time to evaluate what we have. Things could rapidly change betwee now and September.
Personally, I don’t think I sit on any of the QB’s bandwagon, I just want the Lions to win. So far Culpepper has been consistent and put up the better numbers. Meanwhile, Stafford has had his ups and downs. If things were to continue this way, I’d probably give the start to Culpepper, see if his game-managing type play can produce wins. If not, give the ball to Stafford and let’s ride out the storm. To be honest, I don’t buy this whole, Stafford could go be Peyton or Harrington crap. Stafford is always gonna be the player he is, natural talent and determination dictate your future in this league, not a bad situation.
I also don’t wanna see Stafford on the sideline for a whole year unless Culpepper is getting wins. A QB is gonna learn more by playing than standing on the sidelines, and if we have Stafford sitting on the bench for the whole season, I’d be worried about his chances in this league. Stafford, if he is the class QB we hope he is, should show he is the better QB than Culpepper, who is not in his prime. Rodgers and Steve Young were behind HOF QB’s, so don’t tell me about them.
In the end though, the Browns game is just another twist in the bend. Next week will be the most important game of this pre-season and hopefully, CJ, BJ, DN & BP will be on the field.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
stafford
In my opinion stafford is not ready after what I have seen. That being said I think he will be very good in time. I say start culpeper and see what he does. If he isn’t getting it done you bring in the rookie. If I was the coach I still give him some time with the 1st stringers in preseason. I wouldn’t put too much in this game with all the injuries. We had our top 3 receivers and top 2 tight ends out. Special teams is a big concern though. Two returns for a touchdown is rediculous.
Well......
….He did get lit up by Delmas in practice this week
by BennieBladesFan on Aug 23, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think...........
the starting competition for starting QB should be an issue, i think we should let Culpepper start the regular season period he’s the only veteran QB we have, he should get the job. Our back up should be Stanton, he’s done his time and deserves to have his shot should Culpepper go down. Stafford needs time to learn and observe, time he can spend watching mistakes made by Culpepper during the regular season and learn from them, he needs time watching lots of tape of our new offense during the regular season so he can see we he can possibly do different and better. Next season should be the true battle for a starting QB not this season!!!!
Again I agree
But the defensive argument is that he needs time playing in the offense in actual games to be as successful as possible. Some people think that he can’t get the experience he needs by learning from the sidelines.
Thats My Arguement.....
But you know this already Kdawg
by BennieBladesFan on Aug 23, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
your skipping a step......
in the learning process if you throw him out there now. Don’t get me wrong some QB’s CAN jump right in and be a success but very few i mean very few and most of those QB’s did it in a different era of football.
The 1st step (season) would be to have him learn the system on paper, through video, and watching and learning on the field (sidelines,play calling etc..).
The 2nd step (season) would be to have him learn and get acclimated by doing i.e. next season battling for the starting job, starting games and getting in there to see how what he’s learned from the first season translates onto the field.
The 3rd step (season) is being the definite starter with all the weight on his and the coaches shoulders.
Most of the best QB’s around were mentored by veteran QB’s in systems that had been with the teams for awhile. Stafford doesn’t get that, his mentor in this situation is Culpepper who himself is new to parts of this system under Schwartz, hell everyone is new to this system. Culpepper this season will basically be in step 2 and 3 at the same time we can’t expect to throw a rookie in there to learn steps 1,2,and 3 it just isn’t the smart option with our team at this point.
Stanton
I have not been a huge Stafford fan from the beginning,although I could see why they had to take a chance on him in the draft.With a completion % of a little over 50% in college,and struggled with poor dicision making there.To me made him a reach even considering all his assets.I would love to see Stanton run the first team in pre-season.Of all three he has made the better decisions on the field.He has also made gooduse of his legs something niether of the others have chosen to do when opportunity was there.I think this will be a tough year,but with some bright spots.Every other team in our devision is set on one side of the ball or the other.We are trying to build both sides.Just to many holes to fill in one year.I will enjoy watching this year,but with the future in mind.
Culpepper
To even further back up my point. Linehan was Culpepper’s OC during the best of his years. He knows how Linehan likes things done better than Stanton and Stafford. Stafford should be the second man for the job. Stanton is good but lets face the facts here. He will never be a starter unless something crazy happens. If Stafford is indeed the man for the job he will have my backing. Until that time I will have Culppepper’s back as long as he is a LION…
Live and Die by the LIONS
Mind you...
…I didn’t get to watch this game so my assessment of either quarterback is irrelevant. I am dissappointed to hear so much dissapointment in either quarterback considering how high expectations seemed (justified or not) after game one of the pre-season. My argument for the Stafford vs. Culpepper debate remains the same regardless of which quarterback actually looks more impressive:
This is a new team with a new system and I just don’t want a $72million investment manning the controls while the rest of the team is still trying to figure it out themselves.
However, based on what I saw that first week Stafford does have the tools needed to play this position at this level. So having said that, I will step back from my original stance that he needs a full season of holding a clipboard and change my position to this…if Culpepper can get this team just 2 wins, I’m willing to hand over the reigns to the rookie.
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