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Supposed Stafford Infatuation Junkie

Detroit Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford passes against the Atlanta Falcons during the second quarter of an exhibition NFL football game Saturday, Aug. 15, 2009 in Detroit. Stafford passed for for 114 yards and a touchdown in a 27-26 win.(AP Photo/Duane Burleson)

More photos » by Duane Burleson - AP

3 months ago: Detroit Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford passes against the Atlanta Falcons during the second quarter of an exhibition NFL football game Saturday, Aug. 15, 2009 in Detroit. Stafford passed for for 114 yards and a touchdown in a 27-26 win.(AP Photo/Duane Burleson)

Disclaimer:  Since the Cleveland game, POD has been flooded with the ageless Stafford vs. Culpepper debate.  And since I've been dubbed head cheerleader for the Matt Stafford fanclub (which is probably fair enough), I thought I'd use my time to debunk the myth that I am blindly for everything Stafford.  There is rhyme to my reasoning and method to my madness for wanting him to start this season.

When I fully realized that Detroit would undoubtedly receive the first pick in the draft, Matt Stafford became an item of fixation.  Not him personally, but the prospect of taking a quarterback with the first overall pick.  He just happened to be the one that seemed most qualified for the job.  You see, I have this inherent belief that a football team can never truly be great without the leadership and execution, week-in and week-out, of a great quarterback.  Sure, it's quite possible for a team with a stout defense or solid running game to have a good season or even take home a championship.  But the reality is, those teams quickly fade away and become the one-hit wonders of the NFL.  Perennial winners and dynasties have one thing in common... a great quarterback.  I was excited about taking another stab at getting ours and trying to get past our decades long bout of mediocrity and inconsistency. 

Star-divide

Knowing that we had the opportunity to take Stafford, I quickly learned everything I could about him.  I found as much Georgia game footage online as I could and tried to assimilate some sort of position and comfort about the potential pick.  The more interviews I saw, the more I liked him.  The more I learned about his past and what he's accomplished at the high school and collegiate levels, the more it got me excited about his potential as a quality NFL quarterback.  Sure, there were things about his game that were troublesome.  I think you'll find that with every college quarterback when the microscope gets turned on.  But by the time the draft talk started heating up, I was already on board.

From that point on, backing Stafford has burgeoned into this strange realm of embattlement for me ... one I inherited (and quite frankly asked for) because of my strong stance on the pick and my passion for putting forth my own viewpoint.  When I began to push for the Lion's to take him, never did I realize that I was putting myself on the frontlines of what would become a major point of contentiousness amongst Lion fans.  First, it was the heated Stafford vs. Curry debate.  Then came the "sit him" or "not sit him" deliberation, which has subsequently blossomed into an all-out Culpepper vs. Stafford "who's the best quarterback" war.  I naïvely thought that most fans would be excited to get a chance to add a good quarterback to the roster.  That hasn't proven to be the case... and with good reason.  We've been burned too many times in the past and it was simply the want and desire for fans to see things done right this time.  Drafting a quarterback seemed less like building a foundation and more like a PR stunt.  So don't get me wrong, I completely understand the other side of the argument.  Building a foundation before getting a quarterback makes perfect sense to me too.  It's just comes down to being an opportunity cost thing for me.  You pay now or you can pay later.  You only have so many high draft picks and you can't get every foundational piece to rebuild an 0-16 franchise in a single year.  My feelings have been and will always be that if you do not have a good quarterback and have the opportunity to take one, don't pass that opportunity.  This of course, depends on the player value for the position and team needs and all those other variables mixed in.  I'm not trying to refuel the draft philosophy debate, just trying to clearly expose the inside of my mind for all of you.

Now we come to the present.  Stafford is clearly coming off a dismal performance and here's Drewslions, still on the bandwagon and still wanting him to start the regular season, right?  Yes, I am and yes, I do.  But let me explain why... and I'll take my time with this because I want to be completely transparent with my thoughts.  For too long, I think I've given the impression that I dislike Culpepper and have chosen a side in this battle.  That is simply not the case.  I'll be the first to admit that I'll take a shot here and there at Culpepper, but it is almost always in jest or an attempt (usually a feeble one) at tongue-in-cheek humor.  For me, it simply comes down to an ideal; how to treat the quarterback position so it puts this team in the best position to win both now and in the long-term.  So let me add another disclaimer here... this is my viewpoint and it is not necessarily correct, just what I personally feel would be best for this club.  I think it's been extremely well documented on this site (because of the wealth of football knowledge that the POD regulars have brought here) that if history tells us anything about highly drafted quarterbacks, it's that there is no one right way to cultivate a franchise quarterback.  So here are my thoughts on this...

Thought #1:  The Historical Myth of Quarterback Cultivation

We've all argued back and forth about quarterback who have played right away and succeeded and those who have failed.  We've discussed at length the proponents of sitting a young quarterback and both sides show examples of failure and success.  The only logical conclusion that can be drawn by looking at history as a control in the experimentation of deciphering what is the best way to cultivate a quarterback is that there is no logical conclusion.  I believe the reason is that there are simply too many complex variables involved.  Each quarterback is a unique individual with a specialized skill-set going to a different team and each of those teams are in their own special place in time with a different scheme, coaching staff, training staff and group of players in place.  How can you honestly compare any two highly drafted quarterbacks to each other?  In my mind, you can't.  There are just too many differences in each unique circumstance to draw any type of logical conclusion.  This is why I don't think Stafford should be pigeonholed into any historical category.  He is Matt Stafford, with only Matt Stafford's skill-set and he is in Detroit for the 2009 NFL season.  That situation is different from every other quarterback in NFL history... including Joey Harrington's.  This, of course, isn't a reason to start Stafford.  It's just the first reason why I think Stafford can't be ruled out as starter.

Thought #2:  Practice Makes Perfect

The other main element behind the classic "sit him or start him" debate is from what framework you feel a quarterback gains the most experience.  Is it from watching and film study or is it from actual game time experience?  Again, it's a point of view.  The problem is that this isn't a classic quarterback battle between two veterans.  It's experience versus potential with Culpepper and Stafford.  There is a completely different dynamic to this and one that is much harder to gauge.  There is no doubt that Culpepper has more experience and is going to show that on the field.  But there is also no doubt that Stafford is the Lion's future... this point is absolute and without argument.  Stafford is going to make mistakes, that's part of the growing and maturation process.  If you choose to play the rookie, you choose to allow him to learn by making mistakes.  That is why I was so frustrated at the outpouring of calls to sit Stafford because of one performance.  How can he be allowed to become a good quarterback if he is not given the opportunity to make mistakes?  I know we'd all like to believe he is Bobby Layne incarnate, but he is not.  We'd all love to see him just light it up on every play he is on the field.  But sadly, that's not going to happen no matter how good he will eventually be.  He has to learn by making mistakes and the only way for him to do that is by being on the field.

Ultimately, this comes down to a decision of possibly sacrificing more consistent play by Culpepper for the greater good of Stafford's experience.  To be honest, that might not be a very meaningful difference in the win-loss column.  The reasoning for that is that I think we are still a year or two away from "P-Word" contention and both quarterbacks will have their struggles behind center with this team.  With that, I choose experience for Stafford and allowing him to grow over a more stabile, conservative offense behind Culpepper.  Again, that's not right or wrong... just my opinion.

Thought #3:  When the Pressure is On

The other main element to this debate deals with pressure of various types.  There is pressure for a young quarterback to learn the playbook and to become a good teammate.  There is pressure to show a presence in the huddle and leadership qualities.  Those are mental pressures and fragile-minded players may have a tough time coping with those in their rookie year.  There is also a physical pressure... as in an NFL-caliber blitz.  It's one thing to have collegiate-level players coming at you and quite another to have Shawn Merriman or Troy Polamalu charging at you full speed, trying to tear your head off.   These mental and physical hurdles are no doubt a challenge for any rookie player and even more so when you play quarterback.  It takes a special player to be able to rise above those pressures as a rookie. 

But there is one other element to pressure that I think is quite often forgotten in this debate.  Most opposed to Stafford starting will contend that until the team around him is better, there is no good that can come of putting him in a less-than-optimal situation and allowing him to get his psyche bruised - therefore, ruining him by playing him before he is ready.  That theory in general appears sound and there are a lot of quarterbacks that appear to be a product of this type of handling.  But if I may, I'd like to interject an additional wrinkle to this theory.  Is there more pressure for a quarterback to play and learn when the team around him is not very good or when the team around him is a contender?  Let's look at this a little deeper.  If Detroit expectations are relatively low... which they are this year... will Stafford be allowed to make more mistakes and learn with fewer consequences compared to when expectations are high and the pieces around him are in place?  When everyone else is ready to contend for a "P-Word" spot and he is getting his first start, who is the pressure really on?  See, this is why I want to see him come in and grow with the team from the onset of the rebuilding process.  If he comes in this year and stinks up the joint, so what?  The rest of the team is still learning and stinking it up too.  However, the more pieces that get into place before he plays, the pressure is on him to perform immediately.  Granted, he will learn on the sidelines as well... just not as much as he will on the field... in my humble opinion anyway.

Thought #4:  If You Can't Handle the Heat...

My last thought here before I wrap up what has become a much longer article than I set out to write, deals with Stafford's mental make-up.  This, I believe, is the one key element to whether or not a quarterback can be successful in his rookie year or maybe even if he can be successful at all in the NFL.  It's a tough thing to judge, too.  Teams spend countless hours trying to find out whether a quarterback will rebound or collapse when the heat of a game gets cranked up.  You look at the two quarterbacks from last year, Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco - the poster boys of the new "start ‘em as rookies" campaign.  Each was in a very different situation with a very different team.  Can't really compare the two situations and therefore, you can't really compare either to Stafford.  But I think the common element was mental toughness.  They had the ability to pick up the playbook easily.  They formed a quick, tight bond with teammates.  They showed early leadership abilities.  And most importantly, they showed flashes of ability on the field from the onset of camp.  Stafford has done the same.  The Lion's selected him because of his many spectacular physical gifts, but more importantly, for his mental toughness and cool, collected demeanor. 

Stafford is capable of starting this year.  Will he make mistakes?  You betcha.  Will some of them be really bad ones?  Absolutely.  Is Daunte Culpepper a better quarterback at this moment in time?  Ahem... most likely.  But does that mean that starting Daunte is clearly in the best interest for this team today, tomorrow and for the next ten years?  In my opinion, no.  Again, I am in the camp of trading a little now for the greater good of tomorrow in the hopes we can become a perennial NFC North powerhouse.  I think Stafford is more than capable of starting this year.  If I didn't, I would bow out of this debate, concede the starting spot to Culpepper and gleefully cheer him on as our quarterback (which I will anyway if he wins the job).  But I think that Stafford is capable of handling the job right now and because he is the future, let him learn and grow with the men he needs to bond with right now.  Let him have an active investment in turning this franchise around.  Let him make mistakes... huge ones.  Let him learn to rebound from those mistakes and get mentally tough.  Let him become the face of the franchise, because regardless of what everyone thinks, he's already been crowned.

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good post

and while I’m in the “play the best QB today, whoever that happens to be, and right now I think it’s Culpepper by a narrow margin” point-of-view. you summed up the “pro-Stafford” one very well. good read.

by n4ry4 on Aug 25, 2009 5:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I did not think anyone would take the under on four of Staff v. Daunte Posts

Nice post Drew. Although I would say if Daunte showed that he could effectively move this team and score points in the preseason, and Staff could not, then Daunte should start.

However, neither has been very effective so far.

by NorthLeft12 on Aug 25, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't Give Up Hope

Peyton Manning had 28 picks his rookie year while leading the colts to a 3-13 record. Next year, 26-15 and 13-3. Don’t give up on the kid, the only way he’s going to learn how to play in the NFL is by PLAYING in the NFL.

by LionInIowa on Aug 25, 2009 5:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great post, Drew

I’ve always understood your viewpoint on the Stafford v. Culpeeper debate.
I’m all for Stafford starting after the bye-week. Give the kid a some games on the sidelines at first, then throw him out there and see what he can do. He’ll still be starting the majority of the season. Just my opinion

by JazzyBBP on Aug 25, 2009 6:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Too much to comment on

Great post from the “I heart Stafford” camp Drew….LOL! I am not going to even make an attempt at commenting on everything. Some things you said I agree with, and others….well you know where I stand. I will just say this……I certainly admire your determination, tenacity, and resolve.

by KDawg on Aug 25, 2009 7:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

One of your best Drew

I can definitetly understand your viewpoints, as I have many of the same. But I also see the wisdom and positives in Culpepper starting. The problem is, both paths have the real potential to succeed or fail, which is why this decision is such a tough one.

Ideally, I’d have Stafford start the year and go through that first tough season, making his mistakes but learning from them and showing flashes of greatness for the future. Will this happen, maybe, but at this point, it seems slightly dim. Either way though, we’ll have our share of fun and despair along the way.

2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).

by Hyperion Ecta on Aug 25, 2009 7:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Can I Be The VP of the club......

……I say play him from Week 1…..I think we win the same amount of games if not more with Staff starting as we do with Culpepper…..The line is fine so far…..Staff is my choice!!!!

by BennieBladesFan on Aug 25, 2009 8:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Excellent points & well-written

As a Georgia fan, I watched Stafford for three years and his development over that time was not accurately represented by Statistics.

Some additional points Lions fans would do well to remember from his his time at Georgia:

1. Toughness, he is not afraid to take a hit to make a throw

While Tim Tebow was running the Wildcat as a sub for Chris Leak, Stafford was running for his life behind an offensive line that would be hard-pressed to block my Fraternity’s flag football team. Forget throwing off his back foot, he may as well have been throwing from the bottom of a well, he got the Archie Manning treatment for the entire SEC season.

He still needs to adjust to the speed of the NFL, but no need to worry that he will be whining about not getting time to throw or being hurt.

2. Drops? You don’t know the meaning of the word.

Until AJ Green arrived last year, Stafford would have been better off throwing to a cardboard cutout of Calvin Johnson than to any member of the offense with the possible exception of Knowshon.

I am not talking about balls “thrown too hard” and dropped (although that certainly happened) or “too high/just behind” and “off the hands” (that happened as well) drops.

I am talking “softly into the hands of a RB in the flat with not a soul but the fat guy holding the down marker within 20 yards of him” drops.

“3rd and 8, eleven yard curl patterns with the ball placed in the sternum” drops.

“Screen pass dropped perfectly into the hands while all 172 Florida Gator defenders are trying to crack him open like a Pez dispenser” drops.

Two separate officials dropped balls that he tossed to them after the play (ok… only I only saw one, but I missed the Auburn game that year.) He made the correct reads and continued to throw to the correct WR, never bitched or made a scene. He is almost as thrilled to be throwing the Calvin Johnson as I am to never have to watch that freak play against UGA again.

3. He lost weight and built muscle from his Freshman year

May seem like a small point, but look at the pictures from 2006 to 2008, he looks as if he lost 40 lbs…he only lost 15 lbs but he built up muscle and got stronger. What does that mean?

Discipline, work ethic… oh and it reduces the chances that you will have the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man under center in 2 years (or Jamarcus Russel. I will eat my hat (unless he’s eaten it first) if that kid is an ounce below 280 by the time next year’s draft comes up.)

Cheers all and good luck.

by Octavius on Aug 25, 2009 9:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good insight

And I am happy to hear all of that…..but it still doesn’t change my opinion that he is not quite ready to take over in Detroit. Maybe at some point during the season he will be ready, but not week 1 in my opinion. I wonder if his hands sweat more than normal….even the refs were dropping the ball after he had it! LMAO!!

by KDawg on Aug 25, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Octavius, excellent comments.

This is the kind of insight that our coaches and management had before he was drafted. It is nice to hear it. Better late than never I guess.

by NorthLeft12 on Aug 28, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I strongly disagree with this comment:

“Sure, it’s quite possible for a team with a stout defense or solid running game to have a good season or even take home a championship. But the reality is, those teams quickly fade away and become the one-hit wonders of the NFL. Perennial winners and dynasties have one thing in common… a great quarterback.”

I think one of the biggest fallacies in the NFL is that you have to have a great quarterback to have a dynasty. Sure there are great current examples, with Brady and Manning. But there are also the Steelers, the Ravens and the Titans. One big pet peeve of mine is that Quarterbacks are strongly judged on whether they’ve ever raked in a championship. No other positions has to worry about that. No one thinks Nmandi Asomugha is a bad DB because he’s never held the Lombardi Trophy.

Anyways, I’m rambling. My point is, quarterbacks are deemed good once they have a championship under their belt. That begs the question, does a quarterback make a championship team, or does a championship make a “good” quarterback? Many of the “great” quarterbacks of the past were actually pretty average, but seemed amazing because they were part of a dynasty. I’m talking your John Elways, Troy Aikmans and your Joe Namathi (plural of Namuth).

Anyways, this is kind of just one little aspect of your article that I disagreed with, its not even the main topic.

But now that we DO have Stafford, I have to say, I’m one of the rare people in the middle of this argument. I would like to see Stafford start the majority of the games this season, but I really don’t have a strong opinion on who should start at New Orleans. On one side, I am pretty interested to see what Daunte’s got left in the tank and I think he probably gives us the best chance to win this year (I am a believer that no matter how bad your team is, in the NFL they could still win 6-8 games). But I am also congizant that we probably won’t make the playoffs, and Stafford needs to get some time in before our games become meaningless.

Read about the Lions at: http://www.studyofsports.com/?cat=142

by simscity on Aug 25, 2009 10:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Namathi....lol

Nice. I can definitetly see your point about championships and QBs. For example, I think you can attribute the Steelers dynasty much more to their defence then to Bradshaw, who, if I recall has a fairly average QB rating.

2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).

by Hyperion Ecta on Aug 25, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sims...

Honestly? The Steelers have a franchise quarterback with Roethlisberger… he’s won two Super Bowls with them. The Ravens a dynasty??? They won ONE Super Bowl… 9 years ago! That doesn’t constitute a one-hit wonder? They haven’t been back because they don’t have a quarterback. They finally get one (a rookie, no less) and they get back to the Championship game. The Titans are a dynasty??? They’ve NEVER won a Super Bowl. You actually make my point perfectly!

Look, I’m not talking about teams that waffle back and forth between good and mediocre, like the Titans and Ravens. I’m talking about perennial contenders and REAL dynasties. Packers… Starr. Cowboys… Staubach, Aikman. Niners… Montana, Young. C’mon. None of these teams would have won multiple Super Bowls without their star QBs.

by DrewsLions on Aug 25, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

in my opinion

you proved my point with the Steelers. I’m not too high on Rothlesburger (although I’ll never take away anything from what he did in last years’ Superbowl). But their defense is much more the reason for their dominance in the 00s than Big Ben is. Ben threw for an 80 passer rating last year, and the Steelers won the Superbowl. Let’s not crown him a GREAT quarterback just yet.

And if you don’t like my current examples, see Elway, Aikman and Namath. Their careers were pretty average if you take away the Superbowls.

Read about the Lions at: http://www.studyofsports.com/?cat=142

by simscity on Aug 26, 2009 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Elway and Aikman Average?????

These are two of the " Greatest " quarterback to ever play. I hate the phrase " Take away the Super Bowls." It does not make sense. It is like saying " Take away the passing yards." or " Take away the touchdowns." They were great quarterback because they lead their teams to victory. Use Montana as an example. Montana only started a full 16 game season twice in his whole career. His numbers are overall less than Elway and Aikman. Yet, he is considered by most as the " Greatest " to ever to play quarterback. Take away his Super Bowls than is he the greatest?

It is not just about numbers. It is what these players did for their teams to make them win. Bradshaw. Hall of Fame quarterback. His numbers are not Hall of Fame numbers. But, it is what he did for his team that made him great. Ben is a very good quarterback. He puts his team in position to win almost every week. The Steelers in 2001 had the number 1 ranked defense. Maddox was thier quarterback. They had a good year. But no Super Bowl. Year in and. And year ouot the Steelers defense is ranked in the lower top 10. But they did not get their Super Bowl wins until they got their quarterback, Big Ben.

by JCruize on Aug 26, 2009 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The Steelers...

They had a huge supporting cast and a championship ready team when they drafted Big Ben. They needed someone that could throw the ball and stand a little bit of pressure. The Lions have nowhere near the cast that they did.

Live and Die by the LIONS

by LionsFan619 on Aug 27, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When I say nowhere near the cast..

We are still in a rebuilding phase. We have great weapons on offense and defense. Every down starts witht the O-line and that is something we don’t have…

Live and Die by the LIONS

by LionsFan619 on Aug 27, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Talking about the Steelers.

I do agree that the Steelers had a team in place. But they were still lacking that quarterback. But their O-line was not that good last season. They gave up 49 sacks.

But here is the thing with the Steelers franchise. Chuck Noll was hired in 1969. The Steelers won 1 game that year. With the first pick overall. They took Bradshaw. Bradshaw was the opening day starter, that season. Steelers continued to build their team around thier young quarterback. Until, they started to win championships. After those first three years of building. Chuck Noll and the Steelers went on to have 16 winning season. In a twenty year span. Then passed the tourch to Cowher.

Isn’t that exactly what we as Lions fans want. Maybe we are missing the point here. With the " Great Debate ". Stafford v. Culpepper. Maybe the key to the Lions future lies more with Schwartz and Mayhew. Than with Stafford and Calvin Johnson.

by JCruize on Aug 27, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interestning point of view

I’d love it if Schwartz was the next Noll or Cowher.

2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).

by Hyperion Ecta on Aug 27, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

smart in the office

start culpepper week one and he can show the nfl he is still alright then trade him before the deadline and get something out of him. start stafford then, look what we did with kitna and we all no culpepper is not here for the long run

by sandvet on Aug 25, 2009 10:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Excellent article, DL.

I would have to agree with you on all points. I was one of those who was against drafting Stafford but, now that the Lions have, I too believe it would do the greatest good to let the kid take his lumps. He needs to get actual on-field experience so that when the team is ready to move to the next level, he’s there to lead them.

I has a blog

"A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five." ~Groucho Marx

by Jettero2112 on Aug 25, 2009 10:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I haven't even read past the jump

and I had to comment. I know this is going to be awesome and I love long, in depth analytical articles. Can’t wait. I’ll check back in in a few minutes. Gotta get readin!

by Scotty G on Aug 25, 2009 11:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

you should

mail that to swartz. Verrrry nice.

by Scotty G on Aug 26, 2009 12:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I was surprised to find that out too

I just always figured that this site was their first stop on the web with their morning coffee.

by DrewsLions on Aug 26, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Naaa, they check out the Erin Andrews video first

by JazzyBBP on Aug 28, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Drew - if I can comment

First of all excellent article. You elucidate your points clearly and effectively. I agree with just about everything you say BUT I would like to say that, in my opinion, the building blocks of a good pro football team are the offensive and defensive lines, or the nucleas of a team.

Most of the dynasties you mentioned, 49er’s, Cowboys, Packers, had a core of guys on both the offensive and defensive lines that are, or going to be one day, in the Hall of Fame. We don’t have any of those peices yet. I understand your point about opportunity costs, etc. and its valid, more than valid actually.

Overall I guess what I am saying is:

1.) Good pick with Stafford. He may or may not be a building block for a great franchise. Only time will tell but I agree, dynasties are not complete until there is a great QB under center.
2.) Our offensive and defensive lines are still very weak, but I think our D line has made up some ground. We do not have a bookend right tackle or a pro-bowl defensive end. In fact look up the QB ratings of our opponents for all 16 games last year. You will find that K Orton and M Ryan and T Jackson looked like Aikman, Young and Elway against our shoddy defense.

Conclusion: Let Stafford sit in 2009. Don’t ruin him like we did with Chuck Long, Andre Ware, Joey “Blue Skies” Harrington. Let Duante take the heat – this team isn’t going anywhere anyway. Start drafting, or singning, long-term Pro Bowl players on the O and D lines and then throw Stafford in.

by NYCLionsfan on Aug 26, 2009 11:38 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I was feeling you until that last paragraph

I felt like you understood the post and then in the last paragraph you kind of undid everything I wrote the post for…. i.e. comparing Stafford to past Lion’s quarterbacks, assuming he can’t handle the pressure, not letting him learn on the job BEFORE the team is a contender.

I think this concept is a real hurdle for a lot of people. IMO, there are just some quarterbacks who are ready from the onset… I believe Stafford to be one of them.

by DrewsLions on Aug 26, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right Drew

I hope Stafford is one of those that are ready from Day 1 but I just don’t see the rush. I think back to Steve McNair not playing for a whole year and that ended up pretty good. We know one thing, his arm strength is amazing – and also it would help sell seats (which someone aptly commented on earlier.) Anyway, let’s hope our TEAM does well – after all I just want wins.

Great post again by the way Drew. I wasted a lot of hard earned time at work today thanks to your post and I really appreciate it!! LOL

by NYCLionsfan on Aug 26, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We NEVER ruined Andre Ware...

He was a College QB coming out of Houston… We never ruined him, he was just never any good.

by ZWC11 on Aug 26, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Other Heisman winning QBs who did not cut it in the NFL......

Pat Sullivan – Auburn, Chris Weinke – Florida St., Gino Torretta – Miami, Charlie Ward – Florida State, Eric Crouch – Nebraska, Ty Detmer – BYU, Jason White – Oklahoma, Troy Smith – Ohio State [yet].

The Heisman award should be for the best college player, not who will be the best NFL player.

by NorthLeft12 on Aug 26, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is

But to say that they were “never any good” is not correct if they won the Heisman trophy. That means they were exceptionally good in college.

by KDawg on Aug 26, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why draft him then??

He looked pretty damn good at Houston

by NYCLionsfan on Aug 26, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He looked more than good....

He looked awesome…..and everyone thought he was going to be a future HOF QB when we drafted him.

by KDawg on Aug 26, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But then the NFL figured it out....

Ware ran the goofy gimicky Run and Shoot. In fact, it is the same offense that Hawaii ran with Colt Brennan who had 58TD’s to 12 picks, and threw for 5,549 yards on 72% completion. He was a system QB only.

by eBuddha on Aug 26, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Colt Brennan

Has looked great in the preseason this year and last with the Redskins…..

And Ware was drafted into a run and shoot offense with Mouse Davis as the OC.

by KDawg on Aug 27, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And they both stink

Ware was drafted into a Run N Shoot, and he still sucked. How many NFL teams use the Run n Shoot now? Answer = 0. The offense was exposed. Also, Colt Brennan isn’t good enough to beat out Tod Collins for the backup job, and he is in danger of being replaced by an undrafted rookie. Yeah, I wouldn’t call that “looking great”.

by eBuddha on Aug 27, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right

I was thinking of last year….Brennan has sucked this year in preseason, but I watched him last year and he looked pretty good in the preseason. Andre Ware never got a chance in Detroit. He got a total of 6 starts over 4 years…..he was 2-1 as a starter in 1992 (he started 3 games), but Rodney Peete was the better man. When Rodney Peete went down, Erik Kramer stepped in (he was 1-2 in 3 starts and threw twice as many INTs as Ware….go figure). I agree, Andre Ware was no where near as good in the NFL as he was in college, but to say he was never any good? I laugh at the ignorance of that statement.

Guess what eBuddha?? You know the “Run and Shoot” offense that nobody in the NFL runs today? It’s now called the “West Coast Offense”. Do some research, the West Coast Offense is just a variation of the spread and the run and shoot. In fact, the Coryell offense (Air Coryell, the original west coast offense), the Walsh offense (incorrectly dubbed as the west coast offense, but the term stuck), the Ellison offense (run and shoot), and the spread offense are all variations of the same concept….pass to open up the run.

by KDawg on Aug 27, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow...

Wow, now you are just being an asshole. Please show where I said he was never any good on any level? I laugh at the ignorance of you wearing your emotions on your sleeve, and taking my responses as a direct attack on you. I said he still sucked in the Run N’ Shoot, meaning he ran basically the same system in college, but still wasn’t able to succeed in the NFL. Maybe THAT is how you decided to think my statements are ignorant.

As for variations of offense, well just because something started as one thing doesn’t mean it is the same. Let me first say that no one in the NFL runs the classic “WCO” either. They all run variations of it because the Tampa 2 rendered it ineffective. That is also the reason basically no one runs the Tampa 2 anymore, because those variations rendered IT ineffective.

Honestly, I don’t even know how I ended up sucked into this conversation. All I ever implied was Ware (like Colt Brennan) had inflated numbers in an offense that inflates passing numbers. The NFL hadn’t quite figured out yet that these system QB’s don’t translate in the NFL, even when running the same offense ala Ware.

by eBuddha on Aug 27, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My bad

It was not you that said he was never any good….you’ll have to excuse me for the misplaced comments man. My attention is not what it normally is since my Dad just got beaten to death 2 weeks ago tomorrow. Yeah, I am an a**hole, and it doesn’t bother me that you said so…..lol. An earlier comment by ZWC said " We NEVER ruined Andre Ware…He was a College QB coming out of Houston… We never ruined him, he was just never any good". I commented, along with some others….then you commented to my comment. That is how I associated you with the original comment. I apologize.

However, my statement that “I laugh at the ignorance of that statement” still holds true. I do think it is ignorant to say that Andre Ware was never good. That is all I was saying. I never said you or anyone else was ignorant, but only that the statement was ignorant. I am ignorant for “wearing my emotions on my sleeve and taking your responses as a personal attack on me”? Well thank you Dr. F-ing Phil…..I suppose next you will say you can read minds? For one thing, you are the person on the defensive. For another thing, I was never even upset until you started flapping your dick beaters in the last comment (and now I am only mildly irritated). Lastly, why in the hell would I take it as a personal attack that you think Andre Ware sucked after he got to the NFL? If that is really your opinion, that is fine by me. Just don’t expect me to agree with it or value anything you have to say in the future if that is the case.

The entire time I was commenting in this particular thread earlier, I was simply making statements. I said I thought Colt Brennan looked pretty good and that Andre Ware was drafted into a run and shoot offense. You are the one who came back with a cocky and defensive retort. I then simply backed up my opinion with facts. It is not my fault that you took it out of context. When you were beaten with facts, you resorted to infantile name calling and derogatory statements. So who is wearing their emotions on their sleeve and taking everything as a personal attack? Guilty conscious maybe?

If you want to have a war of wits here, then be my guest. I’m your Huckleberry….that’s just my game.

by KDawg on Aug 27, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Point Proven

Derogatory statements, like “you’re being an asshole”. Yeah, I stand by that and you proved it again. What facts did you beat me with? The WCO is an offshoot of the Run N’ Shoot? Well no one runs either anymore football wiz. Andre Ware was the biggest bust at QB until Ryan Leaf came along, period. Well, maybe Heath Shuler, man was HE bad.

Also, when you say things like "Guess what eBudhha???, and “You know the offense that no one in the NFL runs”, and “Do some research”, well clearly you are trying to instigate. Don’t try to play the holier than thou crap with me. I’ve been around a long time, and have seen plenty of people who comment on every little thing (you have 10 posts on this page alone), and always take the unpopular point of view to suck people into an argument. Foolishly I took the bait. It won’t happen again. Also, I have no beef with you, I am a huge Lions fan, even though I grew up in Chicago (it is rough, believe me!). I assume you are a fan too so we at least have that common ground. Take care.

by eBuddha on Aug 27, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's easy to misinterpret what someone is saying in typewritten words

You can take what I said any way you want to…..I am not here to instigate anything. You proved nothing and said nothing that was not already common knowledge. Andre Ware was a bust…..really? He didn’t play again after his 4 years in Detroit, so yeah he was a bust. If you did not place inflection and your own tone to the typewritten words that I posted, then you could interpret what I was saying in numerous ways. If you didn’t want an argument, you would not have posted replies that were insulting. Holier than thou? Just because you might be an old man doesn’t mean you know any better than anyone else here. What are you even arguing about? Seriously?

Ware was drafted into a Run N Shoot, and he still sucked. How many NFL teams use the Run n Shoot now? Answer = 0. The offense was exposed. Also, Colt Brennan isn’t good enough to beat out Tod Collins for the backup job, and he is in danger of being replaced by an undrafted rookie. Yeah, I wouldn’t call that "looking great".

I responded by conceding that Colt Brennan has sucked this year in the preseason…..fact. I stated that Ware never got a chance in Detroit…..fact. I then explained why I mistakenly thought you were the person who made the comment that Ware always sucked…..fact. Next I refuted your interpretation of what I was saying and then your logic that I was the ignorant one “wearing my emotions on my sleeve”…..all facts. Lastly I reiterated what I was doing here, how you came in defensively, how I backed my opinion with facts, how you took my words out of context, and how you then attacked me with name calling and derogatory statements (actually calling me ignorant when I was calling a statement ignorant and not a person)….all facts. Your entire rant was debunked, and so you come back and try to look cool by standing by your comments and saying that I am playing a holier than thou game. “No one runs either anymore football wiz”….now derogatory sarcasm, and incorrect too. Seattle, Washington, Green Bay, Tampa Bay, Philadelphia, Denver, Houston, New England, Buffalo, the Giants, Pittsburgh, and Arizona all still run some form of the west coast offense (utilizing the run to set up the pass concept)…..just to name a few (there are others). They do not run the true dink and dunk Bill Walsh WCO, but it is still the WCO nonetheless.

Lastly, I have no beef with you either (on a personal level)…..I just do not like seeing people who come in making their first comments on the blog (you have 7 now) who want to call me an a**hole and immediately assume that I am instigating an argument when that is the furthest thing from my intent. You may be older than I am…..but I have 3396 comments here and I have been here posting daily for a long time. I’m not going anywhere, regardless of what you (or anyone else….besides maybe Sean himself) think of me. Something I have learned here is that sometimes you have to read a comment that pisses you off more than once, with a different tone, before you post a response. I am definitely a HUGE Lion’s fan and this is my time of year. I am here to make friends, not enemies.

by KDawg on Aug 27, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One more thing

I never back down until I am proven wrong beyond a reasonable doubt…..just ask Drew and Northleft. When I am proven wrong, I am generally the first to admit it.

by KDawg on Aug 27, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

going to add my two cents..

I do agree somewhat with ebuddha on this. I do not feel that bad coaching ruins players. If Andre Ware had talent. I should said NFL talent. He would have landed somewhere else. The NFL is filled with those players. For example. Vinny Testeverde and Trent Dilfer. To name a couple. And I am only debating the Andre Ware situation. But to draw a parallel with Andre. Look to David Klingler. Played behind Ware in Houston. Broke all of Ware’s passing records. Drafted two years later. # 6 overall. Ware was #7 overall. And just like Ware. David’s great college career. Did not translate to the NFL game. Maybe they did have the talent. But maybe they just never put in the extra work that it takes to become an NFL quarterback.

by JCruize on Aug 28, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I listed a bunch of Heisman QBs who never went anywhere in the NFL.

There are plenty of RBs who did great in college and could not cut it in the NFL either. It does not mean they were never any good. Just not good enough for the NFL.

by NorthLeft12 on Aug 28, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never said he wasn't a system QB

I just said that he WAS good at one point…..very good in fact.

by KDawg on Aug 28, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

eBuddha, Welcome to the site!

Consider this your baptism of fire! LOL

I have duelled with KDawg many a time. Stick to your guns [a figure of speech only] as your comments are logical and well supported by facts.

Hope to see you on the site often.

by NorthLeft12 on Aug 28, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I couldn't agree with you more

I too have searched for, found and studied everything I could get my eyes on about Stafford from his high school days through college and there is plenty out there to see.
He was the number one quarterback in the country as a high school senior, and as a junior in college was number one.
Many of your readers agree with you to a point, then back off when it is time to name him as the starter for the Lions. Not me. He is the man. Play him early, and often.
I went on record early on saying “You gotta believe”. Lion fans need something to believe in. Every year it is something different and every year their hopes are shattered. But, this year the reason to believe is Matthew Stafford. He will make mistakes. He already has. But he will learn from them. He is smart, is working hard to fit in, worked hard to learn the playbook and now needs time to play and get his feet wet, so to speak.
I believe a guy like Stafford will make each player on the team play better, especially as he begins to lead the team. And he is a leader.
You gotta play him now, and soon you will be including his name with the likes of Eli, Peyton and Brady. You gotta believe in something, believe in Stafford. He will make it happen.

by rbirdman on Aug 26, 2009 6:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I have to agree.

Mistakes don’t bother me at all. Get him in there, let the rest of the team know THIS is your direction. Make him the starter regardless of this next pre-season game. Stafford is the future, not Culpepper and his 1 year deal. The players know that. He’s gonna make mistakes, it’s part of the learning process. You have to make a mistake in order to learn from that mistake. You can’t just see it on tape, or mess up in practice, the guy needs to throw as many passes as he can in a real / live nfl situation, with different colors coming at him, and fans yelling “stafford sucks” or whatever, so that he can rise above it and become that franchise QB that we all want to see. Put him in there so he can make his mistakes, and grow.

When the LEGAL side-effects of a substance, cause more harm to the person, than the side effect of the substance its self, we have an injustice.
- Jimmy Carter

by BIGWalt2990 on Aug 26, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right, but who cares....

Did we compare Kevin Smith or Kevin Jones to Barry Sanders when we drafted them? Isn’t an o-line just as important to a running back? Why aren’t people worried about a running back’s fragile state of mind by ruining them as rookies? Give me a break, if you are a winner you are a winner and if you are a loser you are a loser, period. If Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Cade McKnown, or a laundry list of other QB’s sat out to learn would it have made any difference? No way. These guys were just not good enough to play at the pro level.

If we sat Joey Harrington he would still be, yes, Joey Harrington. Mr. Happy feet. I never saw that guy stand tall in the pocket once. He always looked terrified back there. From what I have seen thus far of Stafford, he looks to be the real deal. I don’t know if it is me, but it seems like Stafford has the “it” factor. He looks different back there. Different than any QB I can recall in Detroit. There is just a kind of quiet confidence that he exudes, and then he lets it rip without regard. I love what I am seeing from him.

All that aside to me this is all meaningless. We have a coaching staff who agrees the best man will play. Right now the tie goes to the veteran, but when Stafford is ready (and it will be very soon) he will play, and I am not worried about it at all. He may be bad this year, he may be great, but either way playing him now will not affect his long term outlook. He either will succeed in this league, or he won’t, but playing him or sitting him won’t be the deciding factor for either.

by eBuddha on Aug 26, 2009 10:33 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I agree

I don’t buy into the shell-shocked thing, on whether Stafford has the ‘it’ factor. I’m still unsure about that, he’s shown some real good signs, but I wanna give him some time to really prove he has it, to me it seems a little in his development.

2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).

by Hyperion Ecta on Aug 27, 2009 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

About progress

Another Georgia fan checking up on Stafford’s progress—you all have articulated all the reasons Stafford is likely to eventually succeed. I’ll add another wrinkle to consider. It’s already been noted that his OL at Georgia last year was made of toothpicks and duct tape; they had several true freshman starting and lost their best player and at least four other OLs to injury before and into the season.

Stafford developed a habit of throwing off his back foot to avoid the constant pressure; even though it is easier for a young, small OL to pass block rather than run block (which requires bulk), a sophisticated rush scheme (or a huge DL or two) could get through them easily. The back foot problem is most noticeable in that awful Alabama game in ’08 that demonstrated how mentally weak the UGA team was last year (and would continue to be). Youtube the lowlights and watch how he scrambles sideward and backward with poor results.

Mark Richt mentioned this problem in the press, in a gentle way that wasn’t at all an outing, just an issue to keep working on among many for the whole team. Ok, so fast forward to three weeks later and watch how Stafford plays it against LSU. Three weeks, and really against the next team that was any good, and he has learned to step into the rush rather than away from it. The result was possibly the single best game of his Georgia career.

Bottom line is that the guy is coachable along with being confident. He does trust that arm too much sometimes. But give him a line and some receivers in a few years and he’ll be pretty good. He’s not the world’s most vocal leader or the guy that wills the team to win, but he is respected by teammates and will do what it takes to win.

by rbubp on Aug 29, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the comment rbubp

Hopefully these testimonials from Georgia fans will help calm/reassure the Stafford naysayers.

I’m not counting on it though.

by NorthLeft12 on Aug 29, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stafford Starting?

First time poster here.

Originally from Farmington Hills, I have lived in Dallas since 1980. I watched Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson build their Cowboys team into a three time Super Bowl Champion in the ’90’s. They drafted Troy Aikman. Then took Steve Walsh from Miami in the Supplemental Draft. So a quarterback controversy arose, but not really the same thing as we are watching now in Detroit.

They already had Michael Irvin and a couple of their future Pro Bowl Offensive Lineman, that was it.
 
Their defense was wretched.

They threw Aikman in immediately and he took his lumps. 1-15.

You could see the emotional wear and tear on Aikman when he was interviewed as the season wore on.

But a 10 year career and three Super bowls later Troy is in the Hall of Fame.

Does this mean I think Stafford should start? Not necessarily.

As you said there are many factors that will effect the outcome. But the point I think I’m trying to make is that ultimately it comes down to the individual players psyche.

Call it his character, his heart, his guts, his inner strength, his confidence or belief in himself.

Start him now, don’t start him now. When he does get in, if he has “IT”, he will eventually find his way to leading this team to play-offs, League Championships and ultimately Super Bowls.

In the final analysis, his success or failure will not be up to us or the coaching staff or the media. It will be up to him.

by Bobert57 on Aug 27, 2009 11:53 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's not that fans didn't want a good quarterback

It’s that Stafford wasn’t the guy to pick. Next year arguably two great college quarterbacks are better than Stafford. McCoy and Bradford don’t have as strong of an arm, but they are more accurate and the better total package. You said you liked what he did in college, really? All he did was underachieve. Remember Georgia was supposed to win the national championship last year and then look at where they ended up.

You can blame it on a bad offensive line in college, but it is not like the Lions have the greatest offensive line in the world. His accuracy is also a major concern and while he will hopefully learn not to throw Brett Favre-like passes because he trusts his arm so much that is also troubling. They could have waited and taken a better quarterback next year and at the same time sure up the o-line or linebackers core this year. We all know this isn’t a one year fix so think long term. Even if Stafford turns into Elway this year it probably won’t be enough to get to the playoffs anyway.

http://detroithustle.wordpress.com/

by jehu22 on Aug 27, 2009 12:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

How do you know if we could get either of those QBs? Bradford may be gone before we pick. Then what?

You could make a case for Bradford, maybe, but McCoy does not have the tools to be an NFL starter from what I have read. He has great stats but so did Andre Ware, Jason White, Gino Torretta, Colt Brennan, …..
At least you did not say you wanted Tebow too.

Georgia’s defence was horrible last year. The games they lost were 41-30 to Alabama, 49-10 to Florida, and 45-42 to Georgia Tech. They beat LSU 52-38 and Kentucky 42-38. That is not a good defence.
Stafford was not a wonder boy either but he certainly scored enough points to win pretty well all the games except for Florida. He stunk the joint out in that game.

by NorthLeft12 on Aug 27, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The defense and young OL were why Georgia underachieved last year.

Put Stafford in the Big 12 with those horrific defenses and he would have had Sam Bradford’s numbers, easily. Are you kidding? Part of the reason he got taken number one was the style of offense (not that Big 12 crap) and the competition (not that Big 12 crap).

The OL problem was this: even with Moreno they could not run the ball when the defense knew it was coming (so they ran most successfully on off-downs). They also had to simplify the playbook significantly to accommodate all the freshmen on the OL.

Those of you who believe the game is won in the trenches, well, Georgia last year should be Exhibit A. Is Tebow a better leader? Obviously. Is Bradford a better college QB? Yes. But Colt McCoy? In the NFL you have to that arm, that size, and the mental makeup. Stafford has the tools, people. Look at Brady, Roethlisberger, Cassel, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan…and you who think Stafford underachieved, well, you watch what Tebow and Colt McCoy do in the NFL. Take them for your fantasy teams. Good luck with that—let us know how it works out for you.

by rbubp on Aug 29, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This argument has been exhausted

Remember a few years back when Brady Quinn was the end-all-be-all? Games were being dubbed “Brady Bowls” because the losing teams were closer to getting a shot at the number one overall pick and take Quinn with it. Where did Quinn get drafted again? By the time the 2010 draft gets here, those guys might not even be first rounders. Who the hell knows?

None of us have any idea what’s going to happen with McCoy, Bradford and even Tebow for that matter. So you are gonna tell me it would be smart for our staff to not take a sure-fire, sitting right in front of you option at quarterback for the gamble that one of those guys is good enough and falls to us next year? I just have to shake my hanging head at that suggestion.

Also, you are going to fault Stafford for not getting Georgia a National Championship? Stafford was the only reason they were talking about them as contenders. Once everyone realized there was a pretty crappy team around him, the expectations fell a bit. Stafford did quite well with what he had to work with, IMO. And he’ll succeed here because of that.

BTW… I’ll bet you a Charles Roger’s NFL pension check that Stafford ends up being a better NFL quarterback than McCoy and Bradshaw. I’ll even up the ante a little… I bet Tebow becomes the most “successful” quarterback of the 2010 class.

by DrewsLions on Aug 27, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh I definitely agree about TEbow.....

LOL! Seriously though, I do think Tebow will be a better QB than anyone is giving him credit for. As far as Stafford being “a sure-fire pick” I can’t agree with that idea. We still do not know if he will end up being anything good. He looks like he could be great, but looks can be deceiving.

by KDawg on Aug 27, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean "sure-fire" in the sense....

that the Lions had him as a first overall grade and also had the first overall pick. We couldn’t lose out on drafting him… we were there… he was there… 2+2=4. That make more sense? Probably should have spelled that out better.

by DrewsLions on Aug 27, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tebow is a winner

I do think Tebow is going to be a solid QB in the NFL. I really don’t get all the hating. If anything he reminds me of Rothlisburger (not so much from a skills stanpoint), but for the fact that both of those guys are winners. They know how to win, and they keep on doing it. I would be very leary of both Bradford and McCoy. Not saying that they wont succeed, but I think it is too tough to gauge what those guys bring to the table due to the systems they run in, and the talent they have around them.

by eBuddha on Aug 28, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Knowshon Moreno was pretty good too. He was on the Magazine covers, not Stafford.

But that’s not the point. The team failed. He was the leader of the team so I am faulting him. I’ll concede the draft situation even though I think Sam Bradford is going be better. But you’re right there is no guarantee that he would be there. The thing that concerns me about Stafford is his accuracy. I’ll admit, I haven’t seen him much, but a career completion percentage of 57% in college is just average. Look I hope he turns into a good QB as Lions fans we all do.

I would have approached it differently, creating a dominant defense through the draft and going after a proven QB either this year or next. A dominant defense can hide an average quarterback, A good quarterback cannot nearly hide a dominant defense to the same effect.

http://detroithustle.wordpress.com/

by jehu22 on Aug 28, 2009 1:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is no guarantee you can draft a dominant defence.

If there were, more teams will have them. I reviewed the drafting for the best defensive teams [Tennessee, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Giants, Philly] and they pick offensive players as often as defensive players. Take a look at how many WRs Baltimore has drafted over the last seven years or so. Guys like Dick LeBeau, Jim Johnson [RIP], Rex Ryan, Schwarz/Fisher, Spagnolo/Coughlin, are what makes those defences consistently good, even when they lose players through injury or free agency.

In the NFL I think the coaching and the scheming is what turns a bunch of potential into a great unit.

by NorthLeft12 on Aug 28, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is also no guarantee Stafford is going to be good.

If it Stafford was guaranteed teams would be have been lining up to trade for the #1 pick. Nothing is guaranteed so you can’t make that a legitimate argument. As for the tough defenses, of course they are going to make offensive selections because you still need a semblance of an offense. Also, they already have a good defense and the draft is used to address needs so of course they would take offensive players.

The Lions don’t have a good defense. The point I am trying to make is that the defense was a bigger hole than the quarterback position last year. Maybe I just believe in Culpepper more than the rest of you. I don’t know about this either:

 “In the NFL I think the coaching and the scheming is what turns a bunch of potential into a great unit.

you need good coaching, but you still need talent. I don’t think any coach could have took the 2008 defense and turned them into a top unit in the NFL. Coaches can’t maximize potential if there is no potential there in the first place.

http://detroithustle.wordpress.com/

by jehu22 on Aug 28, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that our defence was horrific last year, and has been for a few years now.

But the QB is still the most important position on the team, and can impact the team much more than any one player [by far]. I think you conceded as much when you said the following regarding Stafford and the 2008 UGA team.

But that’s not the point. The team failed. He was the leader of the team so I am faulting him.

So, you draft the player who could make the biggest impact in the long run.

To explain my point about the importance of coaching in the NFL; I don’t know how many times I have heard scouts, analysts, and coaches talk about how close most of these players are in talent level. They separate themselves by desire/work ethic, intelligence, and their ability to fit into a particular scheme or unit. I think the coaches have a big influence on a lot of those traits including their ability to recognize those characteristics when they are drafted.
I agree with you that a defensive genius like Belichick could not have done much with the 2008 unit, although I believe they would have done better than they did.

by NorthLeft12 on Aug 28, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We are never going to resolve this.

But I do enjoy this banter. Yes the QB can make the most impact of any one player on the team. By how much is debateable but it comes down to philosophical differences between us.

You think Stafford is an unreplaceable talent.

I think that either through the draft in following years or through free agency the Lions would be able to find a quarterback that can rival Stafford’s play. Also, I believe that in the coming years another Aaron Curry would be harder to come by that another Matt Stafford. The good news is one of us is right. The bad news is that we won’t know for a few years.

http://detroithustle.wordpress.com/

by jehu22 on Aug 28, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

jehu, I agree. A good debate is what I enjoy on here.

Not my intent to change anyone’s mind but to put forth and listen to various opinions. Hope to run into you more often on this site.

by NorthLeft12 on Aug 28, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So this post has been here a few days...

and no one commented on my Alanis Morissette based post name. I thought for sure it would have sparked something to go along with KDawg’s “Ironic” post a few weeks ago.

by DrewsLions on Aug 28, 2009 8:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Uh Drew??

I never said I was an Alanis Morissette fan…..but it sounds like you are much more of one than I could have imagined….lol. “So Pure” by Alanis…..now isn’t THAT ironic??

by KDawg on Aug 28, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly...

I do like Alanis. Not that I’m into that adult alternative genre that much, but my musical taste is kind of all over the board.

by DrewsLions on Aug 29, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I'm not really into to that type of music

So it went right over my head.

2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).

by Hyperion Ecta on Aug 28, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The title

I thought you were clarifying your borderline-stalker man-crush on the young man, it’s quite bromantic…not that there’s anything wrong with that… :-P jk

by JazzyBBP on Aug 29, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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