STOP SAYING THAT!!!
by KDawg on Sep 14, 2009 5:19 PM EDT
38 comments
There is something that I have been reading quite a bit here since the loss yesterday, and it is really bothering me for some reason. I am already tired of seeing people say "I don’t think anybody could have realistically expected the lions to win this game". Why the hell not? Because we were 0-16 last year? Because the Saints are supposedly so good that nobody can possibly stop them? The Lions are a professional football team playing in the National Football League. They are not the London Monarchs playing their first season in the NFL. I do not, and will never, believe that ANY professional football team (no matter how bad they were last year or how bad they have been in a given season) has absolutely no chance at beating ANY other professional football team on any given Sunday.
Yes, the Saints were favorites to win and the Lions were severe underdogs......but that does not mean that we could not realistically expect them to be able to WIN against the Saints!! I definitely expected them to win, and I was more than sure that they COULD win. I do not think it was so unrealistic to think that my team would win against a team who was obviously pretty confident in themselves. Why shouldn't we realistically expect the Lions to win against the Saints? We have what? 17 guys on the active 53 man roster that played on the team last year? 1 coach that was on the staff from last year (Kwan)? A new GM and team president? Several new rookies and a QB who was the #1 pick in the draft? It is a completely different team, with different coaches, and different systems. How can anyone say that it is unrealistic to expect them to WIN??
Do you guys who feel this way actually contend that, just because 3 of our 5 offensive linemen are the same, that we have the same RB, the same old Megatron, the same 2 defensive ends, and 1 linebacker from last year's team, it is unrealistic to expect that this new team would win against the Saints? For God's sake, none of us even know what we really have yet! This new team went out there yesterday and played a full game against a very good football team. Yes, they lost the game, but the opportunities to win WERE there! If 3 or 4 things had happened differently, we would all be on cloud nine right now and the entire U.S. population would be in shock, because our own Detroit Lions would have beaten the New Orleans Saints. It didn't end up that way, but it is NOT unrealistic to have thought that the Lions WOULD OR COULD beat the Saints yesterday, just like it is NOT unrealistic to think that we WILL OR CAN beat the Vikings next weekend. If it was unrealistic to think we would or could beat the Saints, then it is equally unrealistic to think that we have a snowballs chance in HELL against Adrian Peterson and the Vikings. Where the Saints are awesome at getting it done in the air, the Vikings are equally as good at getting it done on the ground.
I think having faith in your team and believing they will or can win is admirable, regardless. Waiting until the outcome and then saying "Well, it was unrealistic to think we would win" SUCKS.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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I agree
You have to believe, and the lions left points on the field. At times we were in the game and a big completion would have helped. I just finished watching the game for the 2nd time and in the first quarter Stafford play was very good. Why the hell did the play calling go to shit after the 1st quarter???? A few tweaks and we will give Minnesota one hell of a game. I’m really looking forward to seeing how the team responds to this loss, being next week is our home opener and I think Minnesota is VERY beatable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just my opinion
And this might be crazy but when we get inside the opponents 40 yard line we have to start looking down field for a big play or the T.D. pass, Stafford can get the ball there very quick and the Defense has way to much of a field to be protecting. When we get inside the 10 you can just see the field shrink making it tougher for Stafford. As crazy as it sounds were better off going for some deep passes rather than grinding it out and getting in the red zone. “side note” Stafford was not the bust on the team week 1, Pettigrew was, what the hell was he doing ?? if he’s not healthy then keep him off the field. When he was on the field I did not see anything other then Shockey killing us.
Agreed about the redzone
I think more TDs will come from outside the 20 then inside, well, at least the same amount.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Sep 14, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm gonna piggyback my comments I made on...
my thread to this one as it’s relevant. You posed this same question to me on my game analysis and my response was this: There is a difference between expecting your team to win and expecting your team to BE ABLE to win.
This team is capable of winning games. This team is better than they were last year. There is more optimism for this team and it’s long term outlook is bright. All that said, I think we know where we are and what we’re up against this season. For any fan, that has to factor into the confidence in “picking” your team to win. For myself, I try to find the delicate balance between common sense and brain-washed loyalty. Week-to-week, it’s a struggle as to which side makes up the bulk of my opinion.
That’s not disloyal or being faithless, it’s allowing some common sense to level-set your expectations. We all know that the Lions have a long ways to go roster-wise before we are contenders. But we also know that football has a funny way of generating unpredictability and that’s why we love the game so much. There’s always a chance to win… why the hell else were any of us watching the Green Bay game last year if that’s not the case?
If we are all still here posting daily after what we went through last year, you can’t question anyone’s loyalty because they simply think that the team has a weak roster and might struggle against certain opponents. That fan probably roots just as hard or maybe harder than you for the Lions to win, regardless of what they think they are capable of. It makes them no less a fan.
I subscribe to what Drew said
I expect my team to have a shot at winning, not necessarily win. I always hope for a win though, does that count?
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Sep 14, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Benefit of the doubt.
I’m just willing to give this thing a little time. The team may have improved, I hope it has, it didn’t really look like it to me this past Sunday but I believe the talent is there. It’s so hard to assess the team as a whole after one real game against such a difficult matchup.
I fully believe this season will be a year long struggle, not 0-16, but a struggle nonetheless. I’m hoping they improve quickly, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say I’m expecting it. It takes time to build a “team”, and Sunday looked a lot more like 11 guys on the field wearing the same jerseys. I think they’ll get their, I really believe that (which is more than I can say for the organization with Millen at the helm), but my expectations are certainly low right now.
if are d was better we could have won
everyone saw that
Kevin Smith let em kno, Ernie Sims Break em, Calvin Johnson you already Kno
2009 Detroit Lions 6-10 to 8-8
by DetroitLions 4 life on Sep 14, 2009 6:53 PM EDT reply actions
I wouldn't even go so far as to say that
Even though it is true….
Rather, I would say that if we had done a better job controlling the ball, and subsequently the time of possession, while also capitalizing on our best chances to score…..we would have won the game.
ding ding ding ding
We have a winna! And how do you do this “controlling the ball” thing you speak of? You don’t do that with a rookie, I think we proved that;at least on the road. I do think we are going to see a huge difference next week AT HOME against the vikings. But I still beleave if Cullpizzle would of started yesterday the outcome would of been very different, he would of been better on picking up the blitz. Don’t misunderstand me; I know we are staff infected but I still can want Cullpepper to get out there, even if it isn’t going to happen pending injury or a 7 int day. That’s very possible for staff, give him credit he beleaves in his abilities and reads, but needs to put the balls in better spots for our wr’s. Did Northcut even make a catch?
Is that the same Culpepper
with 98 fumbles and 100 INT’s in 95 career starts? He arrived here with a reputation for turnovers. I’m not convinced the reality of that has changed. But at least he’s better than Kitna in that area.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
The same
ask any Vikings fan about Rich Gannon and how good he was for them, he was a failure in most peoples eyes most of his playing career,Vinnie before he was a JET was viewed the same, although thats just 2 guys there have been many QB’s over the years that were mediocre until they found the right system, Dante had found that here. Once the first stringers were on the field we moved the ball with consistancy, something that our young gun doesn’t seem to do all that much,FOR NOW, cause like all of us I also think Staff is going to be special, but it just isn’t yet. I hope we get to see at least a couple of the games when we are at home this year. And no it’s not due to the economy that Ford field doesn’t sell out, cause if that was the case Copa and the Joe wouldn’t be still selling out. The reason is,Sr. has totally lost the trust of the common fan; not guys like us that are die-hards; but the common fan is gone after a decade of futility. Staff needs to do better at getting us into the endzone in order to bring back a little enthusiasm tio the common fan.I still think that if Cullpepper was out there we would of won the game, but I can’t beat that drum anymore cause he isn’t and Staff is.So just more growing pains for all of us.
Whoops
You said that in your post, sorry for stealing the thunder
We didn't lose the games, we just ran out of time -- Bobby Layne
I do agree, we could have won the game
I also believe we can win against the Vikings as well. It should be no surprise that they will use A.P. in every way shape and form to win. Which means they will probably run and do screens. No big surprises.
I also agree with the thought that we should have capitalized on the best scoring chances. But I don’t understand how we could have played the ball control game when we could not run the ball even a little. Hell it took them 8 plays to get a TD from the 2 yard line. That should have been a gimme. Not trying to knock you Dawg, just thought you might enlighten me a little on your thinking.
We really couldn't do anything on offense
I guess my line of thought is that if you can not run to establish the pass, then you need to pass to establish the run. If you are constantly trying to force the ball down field in an attempt to “catch up”, then the defense can simply key on the 10-20 yard pass plays as they realize that your offense is going to be one dimensional. I thought our play calling was horrendous at times, running stupid toss sweeps and dives when we needed to be passing underneath to gain a few yards. If we can not run the ball, then I feel that screens, dumps, slants, ins, outs, stops, and drags must be utilized to gain some short yardage so that we can pass down field. If we were to set up the deeper passes with a plethura of short passes, then I would be willing to bet that our running game would also open up, which in turn makes play action passes useful.
You can not control the clock by going 3 and out. You can not control the clock by bombing the ball down field on every passing attempt either, especially when you are playing against an opposing offense that is far superior to yours in going deep. The best way to beat an explosive offense (when you do not have a lock down defense) is to keep them off the field as much as possible. Moving down the field as fast as possible WILL NOT win you football games against teams with offenses like New Orleans’s. New Orleans won the time of possession battle by an unacceptable 13 minutes. Imagine if we had kept THEM off the field for those 13 minutes (they may have scored 2 less TDs). If they could not get on the field for those 13 minutes, and if we had capitalized on just 1 more red zone opportunity (by scoring a TD instead of turning the ball over), then we might have won that game. Take 14 pts away from the Saints (45-14 = 31) and add 7 to our score (27+7 = 34).
The way that we could have controlled the clock more is by managing the game better. If we could not run, then we needed to hang on to the ball and make short passes to get first downs. We can not expect to manage the game by throwing the ball downfield. We can not have the “gunslinger” mentality and expect to win the time of possession. When we are playing a team with an explosive offense, we can not afford to let them win the time of possession by 13 minutes. I do not care what it takes to even out the time of possession or even win that battle, the Lions have to do it if they expect to win against any team that can put up points in a hurry. I think we looked very immature in many aspects last Sunday. We got down by 14 early, and then we abandoned the run and started trying to play catch up. The play calling and the decisions all seemed to play to the Saint’s advantage. They were playing with a lead, and we were trying to play catchup in an offensive shootout. If we had just taken the conservative route, mixing short passes with some runs and a few passes downfield, we could have managed the game better, controlled the clock, won the time of possession battle, and possibly beaten the Saints. As it stands, we let the rookie try to win the game on his arm alone…..and we lost.
I agree
After listening to some of Schwartz’s comments on how they underutalized the TEs and tryed to hard to push it down field all in one throw, they might be thinking the same way you are. Unfortunitaly it is in hindsight and hopefully they can learn a little themselves.
I'd definitely like to see the TE's involved more
I still have high hopes for Pettigrew as an underneath complement to Calvin and want ‘Grew to get up to speed and involved in the offense soon. Heller might be able to help too. And it wouldn’t hurt to have more plethoras. Maybe we can sign some free agent plethoras.
What? He can’t block a dead gopher? Humph, details.
Unfortunately
Heller had a drop in the game last Sunday, and we can not afford to have that happen on a regular basis. We need Pettigrew to be ready and able to catch passes immediately.
every Sunday..
I sit here and think up a hundred ways for the Lions to win. Get the running game going. Pressure the quarterback. Yada, yada, yada. And yes, the Lions were in the game against the Saints. And yes, they had their shot at a win. I was disappointed in the lost. But I tried to look for the positives in each game. The Lions are playing some young unproven players. And they will struggle. And at time they will look really bad. But I feel it is all for the greater good of progress.
So next Sunday. Just like the fourteen Sunday’s after that. I will sit here at my computer. I will have NFL.com’s play by play up. I will have the ticket 97.1 internet radio on. And I will be here on the POD game thread. Thinking of a hundred ways for the Lions to get that victory. And when they do. I have a $100 bottle of Dom champagne just waiting to be corked.
quick fun fact, only 5 other NFL teams scored more than 27 points on Sunday
if we can do the same in week 2 with giving up 40 + points who knows :)
Sorry...I'll rephrase my stance:
I think the Lions had very, very, very, very, very slim chances of winning this past game. I’m not saying the Lions shouldn’t win any games because they won’t be favored, I just think that the Saints are a TERRIBLE matchup for the Lions this year and last year.
One of, if not THE most explosive offenses in all of football against what I would consider (and I think most would agree) is still a “work in progress” defensive unit (and that’s putting it kindly).
The vast majority of the time I would completely agree with the ball control offense that keeps the other teams offense off the field, however, I just don’t think it mattered against the Saints. They proved that they could absolutely score at will against the Lions defense on Sunday, and I don’t know if they couldn’t have beaten the Lions with just 15 minutes of possession. The only shot I think the Lions had in that game was if they could air it out and win a shootout. This wasn’t likely going to happen, so I fully didn’t expect a victory this past Sunday.
I’ll say right now too, I don’t expect a victory this upcoming Sunday either, but I like their chances a whole lot more. Adrian Peterson is a monster, and the linebackers will have to bring their best effort to assist what appears to be a very weak D-Line. The secondary is going to have to be very good also, because the Lions will likely have to put eight in the box to help stop the run. This will be a game, however, that the Lions can win if they protect the football…and control the clock. Brett Favre (as old as he is) is a big step up compared to Gus Ferotte, but he is no Drew Brees. Minnesotta will look to pound the rock with their freakshow running back, and hopefully the predictability will allow the Lions to step up their game.
It’s going to take a great effort, and maybe a little luck, but the Lions can win this game. I don’t expect them too, and you can bash me all you want for that, but they are capable. I just don’t think the game against the Saints was a matchup they could win.
We will bein a weird place next week
Last week we didn’t blitz so we could try and cover the WRs. Well, that didn’t work. King looked ridiculous out there. How are you 4 yards behind Mecham in the end zone while he is catching a 40 yard pass? Who taught this guy how to play?
Next week, we might sell out the passing game to stop the run. I fear that even if we do put 8 in the box every play, they will run all over us. But I worry more that if we don’t, we are going to let another player make a NFL record on our defense.
It is possible.
Peterson did look studly against the Browns. I just wish they would stop playing that commercial of him running with his shirt off…it just makes me feel so bad about myself!!!
I don't have
a previous post to back me up, but, I felt the Lions had a chance. I got sick of all the Drew Brees hype (which now appears justified). I talked with friends about the rare occasion that a quarterback, even the great ones, enjoy top notch success in consecutive seasons. They may have a string of solid seasons but rarely push the record books two years in a row. I also felt that if any team would disappoint and piddle away a game to the Lions, it would be the Saints. (I also felt that before the Saints game last season.) I am a firm believer in the “Any Given Sunday” theory and expect the Lions to give their best every week. In giving their best, they will always have a chance, even against Pittsburgh. Looking at the schedule, there are several games that I thought the Lions could win. The Saints were one team, they play San Fran, Cincy, Cleveland, St. Louis, Seattle, and I truly believe that any divisional game can be won even though I don’t figure they’ll do better than a split with each team. Still, that’s 11 games left that I consider games for the taking. If they win just five of those, I’ll be happy. The other four games left, Washington, Pittsburgh, Arizona, and Baltimore would be huge. I don’t expect them to win those four games but winning any of them would be a huge confidence builder going into next year. Quite possibly the catalyst for a playoff push next year (after we get a D-line).
So that’s my way of agreeing with KDawg. Expect them to win any game they play. Even afterwards, don’t make excuses. That’s just being a weak fan in my book.
By the way, KDawg, in regards to your reference to Kwan being the only holdover from the previous regime, I know you weren’t saying anything bad about him but I just wanted to mention that I thought Special Teams played quite well considering. A blocked field goal, Aaron Brown averaging 36 yards per Kickoff Return (including that oh so close 87 yarder).
Damn you Michael Jenkins!!!!
He is suppossed to be slow….
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Sep 15, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
THANK YOU, KDAWG
This is what I have been waiting for for a long time; the affirmation of a fellow fan who has not been beaten down by decades of failure and frustration, been talked out of their faith by the charlaton-“experts” who deliver the commentary on the sport we love (as if they really “know” football and are explaining it to the slow kid on the block). It is hard, these days, I know, to find ANYTHING to believe in: the government lies, kills, and challenges OUR patriotism, our economy is gone down the toilet and taken the world with it because of a (very) few greedy men, and God seems very far away, as if he has forgotten this red-headed stepson…I choose to believe in my team, despite (and even in contrary to) all evidence that may come to light. In the face of adversity, I repeat myself though I know they will hit me again. The problem here is that people have forgotten HOW to believe. Noone wants to look stupid, or gullible; everyone wants to wear the armor of the pragmatist…they don’t realize the invulnerability that comes of true faith. Perhaps their children could remind them. Little kids understand the magic of believing…
Oh what I would give to have us all believe.....
the way children believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy etc……yes, the concept of these fictional characters is truly make believe, but the reality behind them is very very real. There is a Santa Claus, an Easter Bunny, and a Tooth Fairy….they all exist because of the wondrous joy that it brings to the children of all of us who are Mothers and Fathers. Santa Claus and all of those characters are REAL. Our parents (at least the good ones, sorry for any of you who did not get the chance to believe) were those characters once for all of us, and we all believed. When we had children of our own, we became those characters ourselves because we remember how special it was to believe and feel so loved. I agree myPride…..the imagination and naivety of young children is so innocent and beautiful that we can see the very purity of the good Lord in them while they are young.
As we grow up, and we get to the age where we are too old to believe in Santa and the like anymore, we are forced to accept reality. We are forced to prepare for the real world, because one day we will have to take care of our own families and be those special characters for our children. It is a sad cycle, but that’s the way it goes. To believe in something with all of your heart and soul after that is very difficult. Only those that are truly blessed even find true faith in God and love. If we could all truly believe in ourselves and one another, as human beings worldwide, the world would be a better place. Money and power, and the greed and lust that come with them, have (and always will) corrupted us to the point that we can never again be the innocent, naive, pure hearted children that we once were. I can once again quote Tupac here, “I’d love to go back to when we played as kids, but things change….and that’s the way it is”.
I believe in the Lions…..but I do not place them above my faith in God or love. My faith in the Lions is born of the faith I have in my fellow man. As a human being, I know what it feels like to be the best at something, and what it feels like to be the worst. I know what it is like to be seen as the worst, only to become the best. That is where our Lions are right now. They need us to believe in them and support them. Nobody can take my faith away from me, not in God, not in love, not in the fellow man. That is why I always believe that the Lions will win, it is just a matter of time.
I think us Lions fans have a HUGE amount of faith
I mean, faith is the belief of something without real evidence or logic, and us Lions fans have stayed on board for many decades, despite any evidence that we are getting better. That to me is faith. Being a little realistic doesn’t mean we’ve lost faith.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
by Hyperion Ecta on Sep 17, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Having faith and believing are two different things.....
But I agree…..if you are here, and you are not a troll, you probably have faith in your team.
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