"Pick" Your Preference
by DrewsLions on Jan 2, 2010 10:02 AM EST
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Okay, so this might be a one-sided discussion, but is there anyone out there who would rather see the Lions get a win on Sunday versus have a shot at the number one overall pick for a second year in a row? I know that we are all salivating over getting a chance to select Ndamukong Suh in the draft (and we are all hoping that the Lion's won't blow this decision if given the opportunity), but where does simple pride come into play? No, it's nowhere near a guarantee that either of these miserable teams (Rams & Lions) can win anyway, but it begs the discussion of what is more important to the fan.
Let's say the Rams win tomorrow. I understand that they play at the same time, but let's say for hypotheticals-sake that they didn't. Let's say that the Rams played at 1pm and the Lions at 4pm. Let's say that the Rams beat the 49ers and we would be guaranteed the number one overall pick by adding one more measly loss to our record at the hands of the rival Bears. That first pick guarantees us Suh, but it also allows the Lions to be the worst team in the league two years running. Something about that doesn't sit well for me. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Suh in a Lion's uniform next year and if it takes the first pick to do that... I guess that's fine. But there is this part of me that doesn't want the Lions to have that pick. Anyone else feeling this? Not that the number two pick is that much better (or worse), just different.
We know from experience that the entire post-Super Bowl chatter is all things draft and all about the first overall pick. The media gets to proclaim over and over again who is the worst team in the league and even though the consolation prize is the "best player" (hopefully), there's something unsettling about being dubbed "the worst". I don't know... maybe it's just me. I guess we already know we're bloody awful, but I was thinking more like 3rd or 4th pick bloody awful... not first overall pick again bloody awful. I thought I wanted to get Suh at any cost, but now I'm getting cold feet. Again... not like we may have any choice in the matter - because I don't think we can beat the Bears with either Stanton or Culpepper at the helm. What do you think? If it happens, should I just swallow my pride and relish in all things Suh, forgetting that we are the stink rising from the gutter realm of the league for a second straight year? Again... not that the number two pick is that much more prestigious, it just makes me feel less like drinking an entire bottle of extra strength Maalox.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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I want Suh
BUT, that is not a lock to happen if we lose. Too many variables, but if we win I get to feel the elation of my favorite team winning. Which I have only had the pleasure of feeling twice this year (twice in 2 YEARS); and I can still recall how I felt on each of those two wins.
Thanks to NFL redzone I was able to jump up and down and yell random thoughts of Joy when Stafford threw the TD to BP in the Cleveland game. Was on cloud nine for many joyous hours afterward.
I had a quiet fist pump when Campbell and the Redskins failed on the final drive, when the monkey was finally off of our back. No Motor City Miracle for them = )
So basically I didnt answer, I want whats best for the team. I want Suh, and if we were guaranteed to get him with a loss tommorow I would say I wouldnt mind 2-14. But were not, so you play to win the game.
Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain. Lily Tomlin
Take the Win
But as of 2:15 pm Sat. i have not seen a starting Q.B. mentioned yet…..Patrick Ramsey to start.. just to mess with everyone`s mind, he`s on the roster we have to see what he has..that would be to funny.
Win the games
Herman Edwards says you play to win the game and he is right. Suh guarantees us nothing, we got Calvin a few years back and despite his talent we don’t win jack. No matter where we finish we’re getting a top flight talent in the first round. We have more than one pick, I care far more about what comes out of rounds 2 and 3 and so on. I want to go into the offseason having just stomped the Bears. Football has been bad in this whole state for too long and I want to feel good about something.
Herm Edwards also
watches the Young & the Restless, with tissue..
Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain. Lily Tomlin
agreeed
Who cares what Herm Edwards thinks? I just know that going 3-13 isn’t going to make me any more happy than 2-14. Either way if we’re not in the playoffs, I’d rather us take last then 16th. If
you don’t make the playoffs, the season is a loss any which way you look at it and it pays to be worse than mediocre. The old Ricky Bobby saying goes if you’re not first, you’re last and it stands true that (in this circumstance) if you don’t make the playoffs, all of the teams are on the equal level of being “losers.”
Suh will help this team much much much much more in the long run than winning a meaningless game will. Really, 20 years from now, which do you think we’ll remember as fans more? Getting a “moral victory?” (Which I don’t believe in), or getting a potentially franchise/league changing DT? I mean would we have been saying “Boy I’m glad we got that last win in 1989” if it had meant we didn’t get Barry Sanders? Or would you be kicking yourself for the next 10 years of his HOF career? Thought so.
Let’s stop looking at things so generally and start looking at things a little more introspectively and creatively. Just like with our Millenesque FO we have now. I’m tired of this BS about picking the best person in the draft even if there is no need for him. It’s stupid. Are 10 RB’s really going to help a team just because they were the “BPA?” No. When you say things in theory, you have to take them to ridiculous circumstances like that to truly test it. And in this case, it is disproved. 10 RB’s would not help ANY team. I do think BPA should be considered, just not as heavily as everyone says. Also, I think everyone needs to slow down on the “this was a great draft for us.” We’ve said that MANY times before with no true read as we are now and it’s turned out badly. So while they look good now, lets wait a year or two to say this draft was really what it seems. Stafford could have a career-ending injury next year with his knee and the draft would instantly go from being perceived as good to another wasted draft.
One last question, why does everyone think we need another safety? Has Marvin White played terribly? From focusing on his play in games, I’ve seen no worse play from him than I have out of Delmas, aside from turnover plays. White hits hard as fuck. If Delmas is 10 out of 10 on that scale, I’d say White is an 8.5-9 out of 10…the difference being muscle. He doesn’t get burned, he makes tackles consistently. I think White was really a gem of a find for this shitty team this year, unlike the countless coaches players brought in, from Turk McBride to Daniel Loper and a lot of the FA’s like Henry and Jansen.
JF
by Lions Rant Artist on Jan 3, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
I have been touting White since he got the start...He can straight up tackle
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
I want to see Lions WIN
Heck, that`s what you watch these games for as a fan. If we win and miss the opportunity to draft Suh so be it. Granted, he`s a top prospect. But he is top prospect on that particular position and apparently that position is not the only one this team needs to address to be successful next year and beyond.
+10000 @ Leapin Lion
I gotta use that one!
Im not worried.
C-Pep at the helm is like Roseanne Barr racing a Kenyan in a marathon. We wont even be close. If he throws more than 2 touchdowns I will be amazed.
Of course, I want us to have the second pick AND gvet Suh
But what do I know. I want to see us win. I don’t care if it means we don’t get Suh. This time last year it was the LT from Alabama that was the sure fire #1 pick in the draft. Who knows what crazy pills Suh might take between now and the draft. Who knows who else is going to blow up the senior bowl or the combine. I will take a win over Suh.
That said, I watch Suh in 2 games this year (VT and UT) and in both games I wass impressed. I had never seen a DT take over a game like that. No runs up the middle; QB constantly harassed; always double or triple teamed. I am not a scout, but that is the guy want on my team. Just not enough to hope my team loses so we can get him.
Simple: WIN
This organization needs wins first and foremost. Suh could tear his ACL in game one and never be the same – you can’t take W’s away though.
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me in one of my LIONS shirts
I am also for a win, but I reserve the right to curse fate if we win and drop back to third in the draft.
I always cheer for the Lions to win. Let the draft stuff sort itself out later. As some others have said there will still be many very good players to choose from.
Suh
not many of you remember this im guessing but though the rams run a 4-3, they used their #4? overall pick on defensice tackle adam carriker 3 years ago. 2 years ago they drafted chris long. last year they drafted jason smith. theyve invested so much money into their lines with nothing to show. the rams need a qb. theyll draft jimmy clausen. they cant risk another year of ticket-sale-futiltiy. idk if you all know this but on walterfootball.com he makes an excellent point that to win in this league uve got to 1.have a qb 2. protect ur qb. and 3. get to the qb. they have #2 and #3 they wont trade down. the need to most important asset.
These points have been mentioned on some comments before.
Don’t remember by whom, but the point of the Rams picking heavy on the d-line the last couple years is well documented.
I tend to agree with you though, I believe the Rams go QB with first pick.
Lead...........
U know the Rams are going with Suh. We’ve talked about this!!! LOL
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me in one of my LIONS shirts
By just looking at the money and picks they have spent on their d-line,
I would favor them taking a QB. Only if I had to pick one or the other. I am only about 60% that they will. The biggest factor that may help us out is if a QB really shines in the combine and their respective pro day workout. It would make it that much more tough for the Rams to not take a QB.
As I said before, its a tough choice. especially for the Rams for the reasons I first stated. I do not envy the FO of the Rams.
Agreed Lead
they will take a long hard look at a “franchis QB” that IMO doesn’t exist this year unfortuantely for us. As you say if someone truly shines at the combine it might all change. We need to get someone on the Kiper bandwagon (Clausen, McCoy, etc.) and seriously hope Spags goes QB and not Suh (I am really, really hoping they do for obvious reasons)
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me in one of my LIONS shirts
I have been taking peoples word for it that the Rams have a lot of money into DTs.
They really don’t. Outside of one guy the rest of them are backups and guys that were picked up off waivers.
Adam Carriker – LDT – Signed in 2007 for 5 yrs. to a 14.5 mil contract w/9.5 guarenteed.
Darell Scott – RDT – Signed a 4 year deal july/ 2009 worth 2.27 mil. and a 520,000 dollar signing bonus.
Clifton Ryan – RDT – signed a 3 year dal in 2007 worth 1.24 mil.
LaJuan Ramsey, Leger Douzable, and Gary Gibson all signed meaningless contracts for not much more than league minimum at best.
Other than Carriker, They don’t have a lot of money wrapped up in DTs. They do have some DEs sighned to big contracts.
Chris Long – Signed a 5 year deal worth 48 mil. The difference here is 22.325 mil is guarenteed, but 12 mil of the rest is incentive based.
Leonard Little – He is a free agent at the end of the year.
Also I was unaware that Bulger signed a deal worth 65 mil.2 years ago. 27 mil. guarenteed, 12 mil signing bonus. The The cap hit to the Rams for 2009 – 8.5 mil, 2010 – 10.5 mil, 2011 and 12 – 11 mil, 2013 – 13.5 mil.
IMO, with Little a free agent and Chris Long and Adam Carriker the only big contracts on the d-line, coupled with the money they tossed down the drain on Bulger, they may very well target Suh with the #1 pick.
Take the info for what you want but thats what I get out of it.
Well You Sold Me.
I thought they might take Suh anyway, but after reading this why not. As Q.B. goes if thats what they want, Bradford has issues with injuries, I don`t think Clausen is that good but he has been in a pro system. I actually like Colt McCoy`s accuracy and Tebow`s play making ability better.
From the little that I've read
Clausen seems to be quite heralded. Don’t be surprised to see him under the Rams careful gaze.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
by Hyperion Ecta on Jan 3, 2010 1:36 AM EST up reply actions
I would agree
Remember, the Rams are in the same boat as the Lions last year. Do you start with a good defensive player or a franchise quarterback. The Rams also want to put tails in the seats and a young quarterback is the way to do that. I’m not saying they will pass on Suh, but they will consider any and all options at that spot.
The flip-side is that Spagnuolo is a former D-Line coach that would probably LOVE to have Suh on his line. Let’s just hope he comes to his senses and looks at the bigger picture and takes the QB.
Spag's had Eli
in NY, so he knows the benefit of having a good QB. Just like Schwartz
Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain. Lily Tomlin
Like I said, its a tough choice
Put Suh next to Carriker and Long, and you have one hell of a d-line. I think the biggest problem for the Lions is that, for now, no QB has set himself apart from the others yet. I sure hope one does.
100% my thoughts.
And i am not really happy about that because i want Suh. But you are thinking just like do.
I want the win.
Simply because one player does not guarantee us anything. Best case senario: Lions win, Rams lose, Rams pick a QB first overall in the draft. All is well in the motor city.
I want a win!
I want the Bears to have to suffer thru the offseason with the memory of the Lions kicking their ass!
Winning sets up momentum for next year. Success leads to more success…
There will be plenty of talent when we make our draft selection: Suh, Berry, Morgan, Okung, McCoy…Any of these guys will immediately make our team better.
Just livin' the dream...
win
I always want to win. A high pick doesn’t guarantee a pro bowler. Plus the lions have so many holes it doesn’t matter anyways. How many times have the lions put presssure on and the receiver was wide open?
Got to win
We have the people in place to get the most out of drafts now so it doesnt matter where we finish
you play to win the game
true words guys I’d love to get suh but…we have won so few you have to go for it in detroit you can’t giveaway games when we already lose so many
it the fuckin Bears.....
Kick the shit out of them…..
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
I guess the overwhelming majority...
is all about winning. That’s great. That’s how it should be. But……………. I know, “with Drew there’s always a but” (and no “butt” jokes either)….. but, what if that one win costs us a player we are cursing the Rams for years about?
Look, I’ll be rooting hard for the Lions to win… as always, but I am trying to fuel the fire by playing devil’s advocate here. Does one win for a 2-13 team mean more than a player that appears heads-and-shoulders over all others? I know I’m opposing my own post, but I thought there would be more fervor for the side wanting the first overall pick and a guarantee at Suh.
For me… I’d prefer not to have the first overall pick for the reasons stated in the original post. Let the draft sort itself out after the season. I’ll be bummed not to get Suh (and we could still possibly get him at #2), but there are other good players out there. I want to win on Sunday. Is there anyone opposed to that mindset? For the record…. there has never been a topic all posters have agreed with on POD…. even TRADING CALVIN JOHNSON! Someone has to oppose this one……..
Hey is an idea for you Drew
Play to win. Always. Every time you hit the field. Otherwise, losing becomes ingrained.
In case you didn't notice...
I was on the side of wanting them to win and NOT wanting the first overall pick. As stated above…. just trying to get some discussion from those with views on the “wanting the first overall pick” crowd. What I wasn’t doing was asking for opinions from the “idiot annoying everyone” crowd. Guess what crowd you’re standing in……………
P.S. Don’t think too hard…….
That's the way he wants it. So he gets it. I don't like it any better than you men.
I asked if you were surprised because we agreed with something. Since you posted this opinion first, I guess that now you are the “idiot annoying everyone”.
When you post as many idiotic and nonsensical thoughts...
you invoke responses like mine above. To be honest, your post appeared to be one of your many taunts and I responded likewise. When your nature is to cry wolf, don’t be surprised when people can’t take legit posts seriously.
BTW… even though it was directed towards me, I enjoyed the “Cool Hand Luke” reference. One of my favorite movies.
We have achieved
peace in our time. Thankfully, you did not tell me that was a reference to GNR’s Civil War.
Maybe next time we can explore the “idiotic and nonsensical”.
I'm sort of indifferent because Daunte will likely start
If the Lions pull out a win, I will be happy. At the same time, if STL manages to win and the Lions don’t, I will be happy that the Lions could get the first pick simply because a player like Suh is truly a team-changer. To me it’s much different from going 0-16 and having the top pick. Sure, the Lions could be the worst team according to the tiebreaker, but at least the Rams would be down there with us. Plus, I really don’t care about the perception of the team just yet. Winning will be the only thing to cure that in the future, and a win on Sunday isn’t going to make much of a difference in the long run.
I guess if it comes down to if I’d rather have a win on Sunday or a shot at Suh, I will take Suh. My opinion might be different if Stafford or even Stanton was starting, but in all honesty I just don’t care that much anymore with Culpepper starting.
Pride of Detroit, SB Nation's Lions Blog
Sorry, Drew, but I'm siding with the rest
I want to see a win.
2009 = The start of the Lions Golden Age (We hope).
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
Agree with Sean and Hyper
I desperately want a win BUT if the Lions do lose (and we likely will if fat ass CPep trots onto Ford Field tomorrow) and the Rams somehow win I will be very estatic. Remember there is no Millen to screw up the Suh pick this year
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me in one of my LIONS shirts
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