Killer has it right....
by CLF on Nov 22, 2010 8:11 AM EST
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PrintHere's the harsh reality. Has Schwartz proven he's a difference maker in terms of being able to change the culture? Do you feel things are really that different around Ford Field?
There better be a strong finish to this season... and I mean strong... to prove to me that Schwartz is, in fact, the correct coach for this team. This team is head and shoulders better than Last year, and there is NO WAY the Lions should be or even finish close to last year's record.
Of course he will have next year to ultimately prove his worth. But you gotta wonder why the so called "improved" team can't get a fucking win on the road against teams that should be cleaning the Lions' jocks.
Win Damnit.
Fuck the refs. Fuck the injuries. Fuck the excuses. Put the points up and there will be no controversy.
There is NO, NO reason for the Lions to have this shitty of a record and it falls directly on the coach.
Put the game away, take the 'old Lions excuses' out of the game.
EDIT.... BTW, Someone owes me a Signature line.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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Amen!
I like Schwartz, but its time to put up or shut up. There’s too much blame the officials, blame the injuries, blame whatever and not enough go out and play above it all and win.
I am on the fence of whether
I want the Lions to reach 6 or so wins, or to just lose every game to get a better draft position.
The Proud. The Few. The Detroit Lions Fans.
He's right.....
With 10 to go I said Schwartz had to show something. Get the team playing well, clean up the stupidity.
He made a change or two in yesterday’s game, but if Schwartz does get fired at the end of next season, this will be the reason why.
Stafford. Why do I say Stafford? Because instead of drafting your QB first, Schwartz decided to then hitch his horse to the pitiful tandem of Raiola and Peterman, along with a fading Backus. He drafted his QB first instead of building the O-line. So now he’s got his savior on the shelf, and his O-line shooting him in the back. If Schwartz does get fired he’ll deserved it for not going with the old saying of you build your team from the inside out.
The whole sloppy underachieving culture of the Lions currently rests on the shoulders of the O-line. Yarno should go just to make a point.
We'll need to replace three guys on the O-Line in the next two or three years
Peterman, Backus, Raiola, and hopefully get some guys who can run-block without sacrificing the pass protection.
But the pass protection has been very good this year, and Yarno and all the guys deserve credit for that, even though they have a long way to go to make our run-blocking respectable.
I could see us getting a guard and a center in the mid rounds somewhere next year, giving them a year or so to develop and learn, and spend next year evaluating whether Jason Fox can be the long-term replacement for Backus.
Come 2012 we should have a lot of youth on the O-Line ready to hit the ground run-blocking.
Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...
100% correct CLF
and I KNOW Schwartz would agree with you on that point. I watched the game yesterday (as I do every week) and I have lost faith in Schwartz completely. Our defensive collapses in 2nd half’s is starting to aggravate me to no end. I would definitly give him another year but, as you say, he better end the season at least at .500 given we’re home a lot and we have some winnable games (winnable in the Lions sense of the word, which I don’t know really what that is)
WILL PLAY DEFENSE FOR FOOD
I like shwartz but the guy has gotta learn to call the right plays at the correct time
The Red Wings will come back stronger
RESTORE THE ROAR 2010 Detroit Lions
+1
Couldn’t agree more. This team needs a big name coach in here. What if Dungy came out of the booth?? I’d really like that.
WILL PLAY DEFENSE FOR FOOD
Schwartz is a smat guy he knows what has to be done
It’s just a matter of getting it done. It is time for him to SHOW he is the guy and soon. As far as stupidity the players do deserve some of the blame. I know the coach is suppose to take all the blame and none of the sucess but Backus, Raiola and Peterman especially have been around long enough to know better. I dunno what happen to peterman sense last season but his common sense seems to have been lost.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
I don't mind the OLine.
Yes it needs improvement, but that’s just another excuse.
Its the CULTURE that I’m worried about. This team has been folding up in the 2nd half like every other Lions team of the past 8 years.
We need a coach that won’t stand for losing. As it looks right now… Schwartz is becoming Lionized.
This team has no emotion… no guts… they aren’t having fun out there… and more importantly, the culture is just not changing.
+1
and GREAT point. It’s the culture CLF. I want someone to pull the first guy who holds, who cares anymore?? You hold your coming out of the game. You make an idiotic penalty (YOU JP on LT 2 weeks ago in OT) you come out of the game. PERIOD.
Schwartz is worn down on the losing ways of this franchise. It happens to everyone I’m afraid.
WILL PLAY DEFENSE FOR FOOD
by NYCLionsfan on Nov 22, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
100% wrong
Schwartz has done quite a bit to turn this around. At this point it is not just about the record—and it isn’t about tired football cliches.
We are clearly an improved team. Schwartz hasn’t been perfect but you shouldn’t put the blame on the coaching for our losses. Would your solution be to fire Schwartz and start over? I am certain that that is not the solution.
I put it almost entirely on the players.
Also, don’t quote Killer—he is an idiot.
Agree with CLF on this one XPensive
your argument is shoddy at best (sorry just my opinion)
WILL PLAY DEFENSE FOR FOOD
by NYCLionsfan on Nov 22, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Killer has this one dead one right.
Just because I not screaming for Schwartz to be fired doesn’t mean he should get a free pass forever. Joshun is right, when it’s all said and done it’s about the wins, and Schwartz hasn’t done shit in that direction yet.
Yet is the key word here
Everyone knows how I feel about the guy but he has 6 games left to show something.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
You are more generous than I am
That’s cool. You are entitled to your opinion.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
Mayhew is more generous than you are too.
It was his vision to set this up long-term, and nothing I have seen from Schwartz would be contrary to that goal. Schwartz hasn’t lost the locker room, it’s still his team.
I'm not comparing Millen
To Mayhew, and I’m not entertaining that discussion.
Thanks for trying, though.
The point was...
At what point does Mayhew have to adjust his “VISION”?
He’s now 4-22(?)…
How about next year when the Lions are sitting at 2-8 again?
Well
When the “vision” is long-term, and it’s currently in a short-term time frame, obviously not now.
Longterm is a given...
But are you saying there should not be any adjustments along the way????????????????????????????????????????????
Err.
Adjustments that are forward progress, definitely.
Adjustments that fly in the face of the vision, and take steps backward? Absolutely not.
If progress has stopped, what choice do you have? And would it not be smarter to adjust at THAT point rather than prolong the inevitable?
He may not of lost the lockerroom....
But he’s lording over a pretty undisplined group, with his preaching unable to reach them.
Have they tuned him out already?
by delusional on Nov 22, 2010 12:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It isn't but
Loss differential matters, when you lose games by single digits in the 4th quarter that is better than losing 48-7 like last year against the Ravens. Remember when we were losing every game in the 1st quarter – I do and it sucked, this season is fun football. We are getting better, points scored and allowed are progress.
by LionsfaninCT on Nov 22, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
I get it.
He’s not progressing in wins. I’ve already made every stance imaginable on how this team is progressing in spite of wins, I don’t feel up to re-hashing every argument for the purposes of discussing whether or not Mayhew’s plan is working. There is marked improvement over last year and the year prior. That is plain to see.
To simplify it down to wins and losses is not only short-sighted, but it’s insensitive to the matter at hand.
I know what
If wins are all that matters. Just follow the Millen approach. Consistently bring in over paid free agents. That hang around for a few years. So we can always be 6-10, and 7-9. It is all about the wins.
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
Precisely.
People making comparisons between what Millen did to what Mayhew did are blind.
Millen played for short gains and wins in the short term, and where’d it get him?
yeah, exactly
Cause holding on to what does not work because you are afraid of change is always a good idea.
Brilliant. Genius.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
And yet...
Ignoring obvious improvement and demanding more improvement in different areas is being afraid of time.
Patience, grasshoppah.
It has been only two years
since the defeated season. And yes, if Millen were here. Schwartz would most likely be fire at the end of the season. Than the process would start all over again. By bring in a coaching staff. In which the scheme does not fit the player currently on the roster. So the re-building starts again. Effen Brilliant. Way to go.
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
Exactly.
His vision was that, and his methodology was to go about it in a flawed, short-term way that was always looking for current successes to keep blind faith alive.
It is completely contrary to what is currently happening. Period.
I’m sorry, but I’m not the one with “blind faith”…..lol…. I Can clearly see that going from 2-14… to 2-14… is not improvement on longterm… OR short term.
Do you realize the main argument this year was…. “Don’t get your hopes up… not everyteam can go from 2-14 to 9-7….”???
So after this season, the long term just got longer…. At this rate, the Lions’ seasons will go like this…
2009- 2-14
2010- 2-14
2011- 5-11
2012- 5-11
2013- 9-7
2014- 9-7
Really? Sorry, but its do or die next year for Schwartz and Co.
Winning 4 games in 2 years is forgivable… but I’ll be damned if it happens 3 years in a row.
And don’t give me… the 0-16 2 years ago bullshit… this roster has what 5 players from that team on it? PAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLEASE!
The stadium will be empty for the rest of the year… and besides the home opener and TDay game next year… I’d question the attendance next year too.
If you ain’t winning, you ain’t filling seats, you ain’t keeping your job.
Like I've said many times.
I’m sorry you don’t see the improvement in the team and all you care about is wins, but I don’t see it that way.
We’ll agree to disagree.
My vote would be for the Bengals
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
how are they 2-14?
that’s the problem, who knows how the next 6 games go. In my opinion, if they win even 2 more games that is a marked improvement and all without Matt Stafford for most of the season. We have had one of the toughest schedules in the league, playing what is arguably the two toughest divisions in the NFL and not getting blown out in the process.
by lions_sucker on Nov 22, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not saying they will...
but why can’t they beat the Bears, Vikings, Dolphins, or Bucs. Once Hill gets comfortable again(and doesn’t have a broken arm) and Avril comes back there is no reason we can’t beat the Bears (we already have with Hill once), the Vikings are all downhill the rest of the season and at that point all of those veterans will have thrown in the towel, and the Dolphins and Bucs are teams that may have better records, don’t outmatch us (in the sense that Packers/Patriots do). Point is, anything can happen, and I never would’ve thought the Lions would’ve beat the Rams 44-3, especially with how well they have played. Wait until January to cast your final judgment.
by lions_sucker on Nov 22, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
I know...
I just have accepted since the Jet’s game that there is no reason to expect a win at this point and time. That does not mean we will not win, it just means that for me to better enjoy the games, I have to approach them with a different mindset of “hope we win, don’t expect to”, but I don’t see why we couldn’t win a game or two the rest of the way. I mean, take away Felton’s fumble and that punt return and we’re talking about a totally different game yesterday.
by lions_sucker on Nov 22, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
This what I was +1-ing over.
Really? Sorry, but its do or die next year for Schwartz and Co.
Winning 4 games in 2 years is forgivable… but I’ll be damned if it happens 3 years in a row.
And don’t give me… the 0-16 2 years ago bullshit… this roster has what 5 players from that team on it? PAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLEASE!
The stadium will be empty for the rest of the year… and besides the home opener and TDay game next year… I’d question the attendance next year too.
If you ain’t winning, you ain’t filling seats, you ain’t keeping your job.
Support is fine, but it’s not a never ending road.
I think it was probably me.
I just forget what thread it was on to remember what I said I’d put on there.
I don't know...
if this team loses out… heads will roll… and if heads don’t roll… mayhew is NOT the GM that I thought he was.
I promise you Mav...
If they shit out 6 fine BUF type games you’ll have had enough of Schwartz after 6 games also, even though he may lame duck it around here for another year.
by delusional on Nov 22, 2010 12:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think
You know me that well to make that assertion.
If we end the season 2-14, I may be less confident about the team (Schwartz is included) that I was when we started this year, but it will not all fall on Schwartz’s head. And that’s a promise too.
6 at least, I'm with you
It is terribly short sighted for anyone to look almost exclusively at the wins to determine how Shorts has done. This wasn’t your normal situation for a coach coming into a team. This was a super duper clean up job and that takes time.
Another thing is to keep in mind Shorts is also deserving of a bit of leeway as a still new coach. I know it’s painful to watch some of the mistakes he’s made, but it is part of the growing process. By the time, next year, they can get the squad reasonably built he will have seasoned at lot as a HC.
Have some more patience folks.
They say some people never go crazy.... what a boring life that must be!!
by Ee Oulo on Nov 23, 2010 2:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
With the Stafford injuries and a host of others
This is pretty much where I pegged the Lions to be. If you really believe the Lions are losing because of some mythical curse. Some overlying psycho semantic entity. Than bring in a voodoo priest, and a hypnotists. Talent changes losing cultures. And unfortunately this Lions team still lacks talent.
At the start of the season. If you were told that Stafford would miss most of the season. The LB core would have a And Best would be battling turf toe(s) most of the season. How manys wins would have predicted the Lions would get? I said that a healthy Lions team would get 5 wins. And there is still a chance for them to get that.
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
But JCruize..........
Other teams battle the same things yet win. Look at the Steelers (with a winning tradition) they go 3-1 without Big Ben
WILL PLAY DEFENSE FOR FOOD
by NYCLionsfan on Nov 22, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
The Steelers.
Didn’t have the NFL’s worst defense 2 years ago.
It’s all about improvement. The improvement will turn into wins, particularly when Stafford is healthy again.
Hitching your wagon to a horse that has had 4 major injuries in 13 games played
is a bad idea. Schwartz has to find a way to win with what he has on this team now.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
I'm not hitching anything.
I just said particularly (as in, in addendum, in addition to, icing on the cake) when he’s healthy.
My point still stands, that improvement will turn into wins, even if you leave Stafford out of the discussion.
That's not what the Steelers say
you can’t qualify your statements in that way. Everyone is in the same boat.
WILL PLAY DEFENSE FOR FOOD
by NYCLionsfan on Nov 22, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sorry.
What?
The Steelers were the number one defense in 2008, fist in passing D, and super bowl champions.
This year, the Steelers are 5th in total defense, first in rushing D, and are making a rush for the playoffs.
I guess i don’t get what point you’re trying to make. Tell what to the Steelers? That their circumstances are in any way even remotely comparable to ours? Don’t be absurd.
No Mavryk
That they (the Steelers, Patriots, etc.) don’t consistently lose despite injuries, etc. Look at the Pats the other night when they beat Indy. 1 penalty all game!!!!!
Do you think if Bellichick, Parcells or Cowher were coaching this team we would be committing 10 penalties a game and consistenly losing??? No, and they have injuries, etc. just like everyone else.
WILL PLAY DEFENSE FOR FOOD
I don't agree
With comparing perennial super bowl contenders with bottom rung teams. It’s apples and oranges, and it’s completely in-conducive to discussion.
Honestly, if anyone were coaching this team right now, we’d be committing less penalties per game because players would be getting benched, but we’d be losing just as often because our depth chart doesn’t go that deep.
Pick your poison, either way you’re gonna lose and haters are gonna scapegoat like crazy.
and apologists will make excuses until they are blue in the face.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
The Pats beat the Colts
That they (the Steelers, Patriots, etc.) don’t consistently lose despite injuries, etc
Flip that that around. The Colts had 14 players on the injury report. The Pats had 4.
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
HA!
Using two of the most STABLE franchises as an argument would tell me that you lose automatically.
Steelers have been using the same coaching schemes, etc. since before Cowher got there. Neither Cowher nor Tomlin walked into a completely f-ed and blown up situation. Same goes for the Pats. Before Belichik there was Parcells. Guess what what schemes Belichik runs…. yep you got it he runs the same schemes as Parcells (with slight variations but the same basic personnel groupings). How about Indy. Well, they have been running the same offense and Tampa Two since Dungy got there. It took him into the third year to get there and they’ve continued running the same schemes.
Now let’s look at the Lions. They’ve changed coaches every two years. They new coaches bring in their own schemes (i.e. West Coast to Martz to whatever) requiring the acquisition of new personnel to fit those schemes. Now let’s look at the Lions record v. the teams that were listed and putting on our thinking caps for a minute.
Ugh I am losing my train of thought!!!
LOL.
Let’s just say we all want the Lions to win more!
WILL PLAY DEFENSE FOR FOOD
This is how they did it
Without Ben the Steeles still have more talent.
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
keep hearing that talent just keeps coming in
and draft picks, because they are first or second round, they are guarantees of improvement to our core. I say talent while it surely can come in, it also will leave Detroit. Players move on if they get frustrated enough. The players (even the crappy ones) have put us in a position to win many times this season. Securing the win is where the head coach uses the talents that he has at hand to close the puppy out. He’s had plenty of opportunity to show how his leadership determines the ends of these games. Maybe I’m watching the wrong game but aren’t these the same teams that run when the pass was working and give up roughness penalties and franchise long punt returns for touchdowns? This team seems to have no idea or thinks that adjustments in crunch time are for suckers.
by uggugg on Nov 22, 2010 12:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
What talent has left Detroit under Mayhew and Schwartz?
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
yup
How long before CJs contract is up?
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
+1
He will run for the doors if he’s smart (or just outright retire like Barry)
WILL PLAY DEFENSE FOR FOOD
It is all " What if's"
What if the Lions fire Schwartz. And the new HC and CJ dont get along? How many times has that happen in the recent NFL? Like to play the what if game too.
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
My point is the talent will leave not they have left already
Not only that but you will have players that don’t play at the previous years level as well. So when you keep saying that the draft and free agency will only bring in talent I say shit happens (ie Stafford) so you better be good at winning with what you have. We beat the Rams we lose to Buffalo. Some say that the Rams are a better team than the Bills yet where does the blame go when those victories don’t happen. Washington has beaten the Titans and we’ve beaten Washington so who gets the blame when you spend the whole season losing to teams that have lost to Washington? We have holes like EVERY other team. It’s what you do with what you have and frankly we aren’t doing shat. The Jets game is a perfect example of good coaching for about 55 minutes. But I guess the coaches are only to blame for the successfull portion then its the players that let them down. When you are up on one of the best teams in the NFL who does it kill to pull every damn player you have on the sideline and even take a time out to fill them in on how to finish the game? Maybe just a short “lets finish this shit up” may take the team over the top just so they can all get on the same page and stop crapping their drawers when it gets tight.
My point is how do you know talent will leave?
Your playing the
what ifgame.
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
It is too early to tell, by the end of the season we will know more
The Bills game is the first time I felt like some of he players checked out. The cowboys game I saw some shots of the Lions sideline, it was Shaun Hill and some of the receivers, Nate Burleson was there and his body language was all wrong. Normally Nate is an upbeat guy but I can see he is getting Lionized and as much as I hate to say it, if the team checks out on Schwartz, no matter how much I like him, they will have to replace him.
At this point I have serious concerns about players checking out, and I have seen a growing fear in my mind since the Bills game that this is starting to happen, but I am not going to pass that judgment just yet. How the Lions finish out the year is very critical.
I will also say that it is not the fans call here. Just look at what we had to go through to get rid of Millen. And no matter what we all think, the reality is that Schwartz will likely be here next year no matter what. And I think that is the right move too, as long as the team does not totally check out on him.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
as painful
as it might be to admit, I think this is correct. If the locker room or sidelines are continually deteriorating it is likely time for him to go. I don’t fear we’ll really be able to hold them to it if it gets going during next season tho.
They say some people never go crazy.... what a boring life that must be!!
LOL......We are 4 and 46 with CJ, I truly do think we can afford to trade CJ for multiple picks to help restock
Way more vital positions then wide receiver.
This was a Millen glamor pick, and while this may blasphemy to some CJ is not needed to turn this team around.
I think as long as the Lions are losing...
the High draft picks are enough…. no need to trade him yet.
Probably right there.
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on Nov 23, 2010 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
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