Reality Check!
by Cursed on Nov 23, 2010 2:22 AM EST
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Winning football is about making the fewest mistakes, I would hope we all agree on this.
Winning football is about having ''depth'' at all positions if you hope to go deep in the playoffs. If we look at a team's roster of 53 players, we dress 45 for a game. But how important are the 8 leftover players (that aren't being dressed) to a team? If any of those 8 players would be good enough to become back-ups or regulars on most teams, I would surmise that this team is a Super Bowl contender on paper.
Which brings me to our beloved Lions. In their 2 year rebuilding process, I'm willing to wait a few more years to give the FO a chance to complete their plan. We have Stafford who (when healthy) elevates the quality of play of the whole offense. I dare say the same about Suh, the defense is so much stronger when he's on the field. That secondary that was the weak link has shown that with good pressure, they can cover the opponents quite well.
There are many pieces missing to complete the puzzle as the franchise was depleted of its talent with the previous administration. This year's Lions have shown glimpses of greatness on both sides of the ball. The nucleus of young stars mixed in with solid veterans is getting there. Van Den Bosch has those defensive linemen chasing the ball carrier way past the line of scrimmage, he is an example of great veteran presence on a team.
There are leaders emerging on this ball club but we still need to be patient with the Lions. Winning may be everything but right now, the team is still vulnerable to injuries, suspensions... as we have seen with the loss of Stafford. If Raiola is our best center, I wonder what his replacement is worth! If Suh misses 2 games, can Sammy Lee, Fluellen be adequate replacements?
In a long season of a very violent sport, we need 53 guys that help us win ball games. We can't always count on our 1st stringers to pull us through. This year has shown this, injuries have affected this ball club (and most other franchises)!
I'm just making the point that you can't hope for a winning record or anything close when a few of our 1st stringers wouldn't even be dressed for a game if they were part of another organization. Larry Foote is a back-up in Pittsburgh. Pick your ex Lion lol.
I don't expect the Lions to win another game this season, the injures have hurt us badly but I sure as hell haven't lost hope. If we can steal 1 or 2 games, I'll be happy. I feel that when Mayhew took over, he had to find 48-50 players to build this club into a contender. He's done pretty good in such a short period of time. We have a good coaching staff but they can get so much mileage out of a few mules, you think Cowher can do better? I like to think that those who joined the Lions have shown the guts to start from scratch.
Cowher got Noll's Steelers, Gruden got Dungy's Bucs. Inheriting a good nucleus helps a coach get a reputation but it takes someone special to do it from scratch. That's why I stand behind the FO, Schwartz and his staff. Give them a chance!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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Great post
Truly, a reality check.
I can definitely agree on all of those sentiments. Thanks for sharing some positive AND realistic thoughts.
I'm glad somebody said it....
I can’t stand the people on here calling for a coaching change. It’s absolutely ridiculous. The team is markedly improved. Do you really want to put all your hopes into ANOTHER regime? And complain about them too the whole time? You don’t build a football team overnite. We’ve hit rock bottom, and it will take time to pick ourselves back up. Mayhew and Schwartz are doing it. You think we’re going to go from being outscored by 30 points a game last season to a superbowl this season? We’re a better team now, and a good team when everyone is healthy. I believe Stafford WILL lead us to the promise land. It will take patience, but how can you be a LIONS fan and NOT have patience? We’re all emotionally invested in this team, but you have to think with your head, not your heart.
hmmm.... I don't think anyone(atleast I haven't heard it)...
Is calling for a coaching change.
Are there some fans that are putting the HC on notice? only 4 wins would make that answer obvious.
The fans have patience…. (again, pretty obvious)… but if more wins don’t come soon… adjustments need to be made.
I'm not calling for a coaching SWITCH
but I am calling for a coaching change. Schwartz needs to change a few things about his coaching. Nothing and I do mean absolutely NOTHING has changed from game 1. Nobody on this team has shown improvement. Errors have been persistent and even coaching calls throughout the game are botched with regularity. I don’t believe a coach can truly be evaluated until after 3 seasons but so far, it hasn’t gone well for Jimmy boy. I still have hope, but it’s skeptical hope at this point.
that's strange...
I’ve seen multiple different looks from the defense and offense, with changes being made game to game or in-game. Bottom line, is that this team has no idea what depth is, and are just now to the point of having MOST of their starters deserve jobs. This will be the first offseason that we don’t have large turn-around and can instead bump some guys down to backups, thus building depth.
Depth is the “curse” of the Detroit Lions. Millen never cared about depth, he cared about having flashy names on the stat sheet. Look at how depth has helped our Dline, the only position we actually have 2nd/3rd string guys that aren’t just warm bodies.
by lions_sucker on Nov 23, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
I'm talking about coaching errors as in timeouts, challenges, playcalling, etc.
Schwartz continually makes terrible calls in crucial times during the games. I’m not the only one saying it either. And yes our depth does suck, especially on the Oline and LB corps, but that isn’t an excuse for no improvement. Players continually make terrible penalties in terrible times. It’s the coaches job to fix that and he hasn’t.
I call em like I see em. I will say I don’t think we’re heading backwards, but we aren’t exactly progressing much either. Secondary is about it. They seem to cover better each game. Our D-line hasn’t progressed much from where it was in game 1 either. It’s about the same.
Lack of depth absolutely obliterated our Linebackers
We have players who should be 3rd string or special teams starting.
"We’re going to hit you. And we’re not going to push you out on the sideline. We’re going to hit you. You’re legal, we’re going to hit you. " - Gunther Cunningham
Yeah we have taken a ton of injuries
This is the NFL.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
I think we have more depth than is commonly perceived
How many LBs have we had miss time this year?
How many QBs have we had miss time this year?
How many RBs have we had miss time this year?
We have depth, we are taking injuries in the same spots over and over. It is unfortunate but the games do not stop.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
Well
Can you name the team doing well that has missed its starting QB most of the year, that has a defense as bad as ours?
You can talk GB Pats and Colts, but they all have their franchise QBs, and you can talk about Steelers, but they’ve had one of the best defenses consistently for years.
There really is no comparison to be made between any team’s woes and what we’re going through, it’s such a specific beating on every level with penalties, depth, injuries, etc.
CLF was right. Stanton should be starting, and Hill can’t do anything until he’s behind in the fourth quarter.
So you are ready to just lay down and take a beating?
Shit happens. This is the NFL. Mourn it for a moment then move on. The games do not stop. Season records do not have asterisks next to them.
As for our defense. Listen to this. We are currently 13 in the league in yards allowed passing. 26th in rushing. 19th over all. Our defense is not as horrible as it is made out to be.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
I'm not ready to lay down and take a beating.
I expect my team to fight hard, and I hold my team accountable for failure, despite how sunshine and rainbows I am perceived. I just have different opinions on accountability.
And no, it’s not as horrible as its made out to be, but you have to realize we don’t have the franchise QB to make the difference, and the Steelers are better off in every category than us. Who are they missing, other than Ben in the first four? No one. The comparison should never have been made in the first place.
CLF was right. Stanton should be starting, and Hill can’t do anything until he’s behind in the fourth quarter.
Honestly
in this line of conversation, you are the one that brought up the Steelers. Perhaps it happened somewhere else.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
It's just me
Getting frustrated that people keep saying “every team has injuries”, and the common ones are like Colts/Pats/Steelers.
CLF was right. Stanton should be starting, and Hill can’t do anything until he’s behind in the fourth quarter.
I understand your frustrations but... Well, it is true
Every team has to deal with Injuries. It is one of the many painful realities of the NFL.
That flat out truth of it is you will not hear anyone discount a team because they have gone all season without injuries and you will not get any sympathy for anyone if your team is ravaged by them.
You have to find a way to win with what you have.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
I get all of that.
But I’m still sick of the comparison. No team has been AS ravaged as us, on all cylinders, even losing key special teamers.
CLF was right. Stanton should be starting, and Hill can’t do anything until he’s behind in the fourth quarter.
Look at these lists
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/injuries/pup
I am not certain how up to date this list is but look at the length of some of those teams lists.
The Colts, Rams, Titans, Giants, Saints, Pats, Dolphins, Jags, Texans….
All of those teams have been plenty of players on the IR. Saying no team has been as ravaged as we are is ignoring what is going on in the rest of the NFL. Every team deals with injuries.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
It's not about
The quantity of injuries.
it’s about the quality.
Franchise QB, our only good LB, our feature RB, our placekicker for 19 years, our already-bad offensive line, our “shutdown” CB.
That coupled with lack of depth? No comparison. Pick the team on that list that is close to the quality of injury that we have incurred and is performing well?
CLF was right. Stanton should be starting, and Hill can’t do anything until he’s behind in the fourth quarter.
This is all very subjective but here goes....
Indianapolis Colts
Date Pos Player Injury NFL Status
11/07/10 WR Anthony Gonzalez IR
10/25/10 TE Dallas Clark IR
10/20/10 DB Brandon King IR
10/06/10 SS Melvin Bullitt IR
10/06/10 RB Devin Moore IR
09/29/10 OLB Ramon Humber IR
09/11/10 G Tony Ugoh IR
09/07/10 CB Glenn Sharpe IR
09/07/10 WR Taj Smith IR
09/07/10 T James Williams IR
09/01/10 DB Kevin Thomas IR
08/28/10 DB Marcus McCauley IR
08/24/10 DB Jordan Hemby IR
08/20/10 DB Donye McCleskey IR
08/20/10 FS Jamie Silva IR
08/17/10 DB David Caldwell IR
08/12/10 DT John Gill IR
08/05/10 TE Tom Santi IR
08/01/10 T Gerald Cadogan IR
07/31/10 K Brett Swenson IR
09/08/09 DB Travis Key IR
There are players on that list that are a central part of what the colts like to do. They still have manning but he lost a ton of weapons on his side of the ball.
I am not going to pretend to know a ton about personnel for other teams but that list is massive and includes a ton of players that contribute to the team. I see seven secondary players on that list. That is a ton of injuries in one area. I also see Dallas clark and Anthony Gonzalez. That is a big ass list.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
You take that list to the Colts fan site and show them and you would probably get a ton of responses about how important so many of those players are to their team. You would get a whole lot of groaning about how things could have been different.
My point, we are far too close to our team to evaluate our injuries against other teams. Objectivity is impossible.
Injuries happen to every team. It is just the way it is.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
And winners deal with it
Nice, life is full of shit. Winners sort it out.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways, cigar in one hand, favorite beverage in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming: "WOW - WHAT A RIDE"
And remember
These are just the players they have on IR. This does not include players that are injured but still no the active roster.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
There was an article I read about the playing surface called " Field Turf "
Currently 10 teams play on it. And I believe it was a 8( or so) year study. And they found that a player is 27% more likely to be injured on that surface. And of course the Lions and Colts were among those teams using it.
Of course the oringinal article I can not seem to open the page right now. But there is a link to a very simple article.
There are opposing views if the info is accurate, of course. But it was an interesting read.
LINKY
The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. - Niels Bohr
yeah, i remember that study
It was an interesting read and something to consider.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
Are they...
Missing Peyton Manning? Their placekicker? How about their running game, is their feature RB hurting, or integral offensive linemen?
And, for the record, Anthony Gonzalez is not a starter, and hasn’t really played in the league for two years.
CLF was right. Stanton should be starting, and Hill can’t do anything until he’s behind in the fourth quarter.
I already said they had Manning still
Like I said, comparing one teams injuries to another is extremely subjective. Yeah, our injuries have hurt us. Are you saying theirs have not hurt them? If you ask colts fans they would say their injuries are just as bad as ours and they would firmly believe it. You believe otherwise I am sure. Extremely subjective and all about what you see every weekend.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
Manning and Stafford
Is the most stark reeason why this comparison is bogus. Manning is quite possibly the most valuable player to any team in the history of the NFL.
If we have Stafford, and Manning’s hurt, everything being equal, do we have a worse record than the Colts?
Ask yourself that question.
CLF was right. Stanton should be starting, and Hill can’t do anything until he’s behind in the fourth quarter.
Possibly
It is just another if. If we went all year without injuries would we be a better team? Of course we would. Is that the way the NFL works? No.
Teams either battle threw injuries or they don’t. That is the bottom line.
BTW, I know Stafford is important to our offense and team much like Manning is to his team but that is where the comparison ends.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
I am not comparing Manning and Stafford.
I am comparing the situations of the team. The fact that Stafford is injured, and Peyton is not, precludes the argument that the Colts are going through the same team.
The sole reason the Colts are doing so well rests completely on the shoulders of Peyton. Without Peyton, they aren’t “doing well”. That is why, when I asked you for a team that’s just as shaken comparative to the Lions and still doing well, I find it bogus that the Colts is what is picked. The fact that Peyton is there, and Stafford is not, is the reason. Not possibly. Is.
CLF was right. Stanton should be starting, and Hill can’t do anything until he’s behind in the fourth quarter.
so basically
Unless a team has lost their starting QB, their injuries do not comparable to ours. I would be willing to bet there are a dozen teams worth of fans out there that would vehemently disagree with you.
And that is the point. We can not be subjective. We can not compare because we are too close. Of course we are going to think our injuries are the worst. Just the same way a dozen other teams fans would think the same thing. Are they wrong? maybe. Are we wrong? maybe.
In the end, it really does not matter. As I have said before. Injuries are excuses for fans on struggling teams. The teams that are successful despite their injures do not need excuses.
The season does not stop. A Teams final record does not have an asterisk behind it for excessive injury seasons. There are no playoffs for the top 4 injured teams. (although that would be kinda fun)
We can bitch and moan about our injuries all season long. You know what it get us. Nothing.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
You know
That wasn’t the point I was making. I was saying, specifically for Lions and Colts, the fact that the Colts are doing well is completely attributed to Peyton. There is no way you can say that the Colts are in a similar situation.
CLF was right. Stanton should be starting, and Hill can’t do anything until he’s behind in the fourth quarter.
I know its part of the NFL
Its also part of the NFL to prepare for it, we were not prepared.
"We’re going to hit you. And we’re not going to push you out on the sideline. We’re going to hit you. You’re legal, we’re going to hit you. " - Gunther Cunningham
Nice post...
Detroit did a good job building something from nothing and come FA time i believe that Detroit will be at it again adding pieces trying to complete the team the best they can.
Wishlist for 2011:
Defense:
Ray Edwards
Chad Greenway
David Harris
johnathan Joseph
Quintin Mikell
Offense:
Jarad Gaither or Marcus McNeill
Davin Joseph
If Detroit is able to land 2 or 3 of these players it would be awsome…
GOT MILK...
Apparently.
Logan Mankins will be available too. He’s a solid guard for the Patriots. I’d be happy with him, but I dunno if they’ll pick them up because Mankin was basically demanding to get traded. Seems like a discipline case.
CLF was right. Stanton should be starting, and Hill can’t do anything until he’s behind in the fourth quarter.
Mankins is a pro bown calibur player
Unless I have him mixed up with another of their lineman. He was holding out because he was not happy with his offer sheet.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
He becomes an UR FA
This next offseason, the only reason he signed was to ensure that he would become unrestricted the following year, because they tried holding him on restrictions. He basically came out and said plainly, “I want to be traded.” That’s not a contract dispute.
He’d be a solid addition, I just don’t know if he’d want to come here.
CLF was right. Stanton should be starting, and Hill can’t do anything until he’s behind in the fourth quarter.
True enough.
CLF was right. Stanton should be starting, and Hill can’t do anything until he’s behind in the fourth quarter.
Gonna take more than that to get him longer than 4 years
He turned down an offer hovering around 7 years/55 million.
Not saying you can’t get him, just that it won’t come cheap :P
He’s worth every penny though.
Okay guys... I was reading about the Titans this morning and a funny/scary thought hit me
… actually, it was more of a memory.
So in the beginning of the Millen era, we all knew his hard on for Mooch was strong, but Mooch was under contract. What did Millen do? he hired Moronwig to basically set the team up for Mooch… when he came available.
Do to the issues in Tennessee… and a slightly different scenario, is it possible that Fischer becomes available at the end of the year?…lol….. cue the freaky music.
Back to reality….. If the Owner DOES choose the QB over the coach… I believe Fisher would be a prime candidate for the Vikings. I do not think Frazier will stay and will move on elsewhere.
Thats a good memory
Yeah the would suck. Paring Fisher with GM Rick Spielman. Who I think is one of the better GM’s in the NFL. Lets hope that Bud Adams relationship with Fisher is a strong one.
The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. - Niels Bohr
Please Keep fisher away from Minny
That franchise had its run. Time for some rebuilding for them.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
On the flipside...
I welcome strong coaches to the NFC North… the better our division rivals… the better our team will be.
+1 Minnesota's rebuilding
been a long time comin’
I don’t want add player does not have blue collar mentality,
even if he is great player. Piston should not quit your job. - OK from J
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