For all the people who insist that the Lions haven't made "progress"...
by mrbusto71 on Nov 23, 2010 4:35 PM EST
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PrintFirst, may I refer you to a lovely article over at Yahoo! Sports.
More stuff after the jump.
I posted all this information in the live game-day thread about the Lions/Cowboys, but I'm pretty sure that it mainly got lost among all the mumbo jumbo and trash talk that went down in that thread. So just to statistically highlight just how far we've come, here it is again:
2008
Defense Allowed
32.3 points per game (League Average = 22.03)
517 points allowed on the season (Rank = 32 of 32)
3,716 yards allowed through the air (8.8 avg), 232.2 yds/game
2.754 yards allowed on the ground (5.1 avg), 172.1 yds/game
Penalty Yards = 753 yds, 47.06 penalty yds/game
Offense
16.8 points per game (League Average = 22.03)
268 points scored for the season (Rank = 27 of 32)
2,960 yards passing (6.5 avg), 185.0 yds/game
1,332 yards rushing (3.8 avg), 83.2 yds/game
Penalty Yards = 729 yds, 45.56 penalty yds/game
2009
Defense Allowed
30.9 points per game (League Average = 21.47)
494 points allowed on the season (Rank = 32 of 32)
4,249 yards allowed through the air (8.1 avg), 265.6 yds/game
2,025 yards allowed on the ground (4.4 avg), 126.6 yds/game
Penalty Yards = 944 yds, 59 penalty yds/game
Offense
16.4 points per game (League Average = 21.47)
262 points scored for the season (Rank = 27 of 32)
3,168 pards passing (5.9 avg), 198.0 yds/game
1,616 yards rushing (4.0 avg), 101.0 yds/game
Penalty Yards = 768 yds, 48 yds/game
2010
Defense Allowed
22.4 points per game (League Average = 22.02)
202 points allowed on the season (Rank = 14 of 32)
2,005 yards allowed through the air (7.3 avg), 222.8 yds/game
1,172 yards allowed on the ground (4.7 avg), 130.2 yds/game
Penalty Yards = 567 penalty yds, 63 penalty yds/game
Offense
23.9 points per game (League Average = 22.02)
215 points scored for the season (Rank = 11 of 32)
2,296 yards passing (6.1 avg), 255.1 yds/game
730 yards rushing (3.4 avg), 81.1 yds/game
Penalty Yards = 656 penalty yards, 41 yds/game
This year, 2nd in # of offensive penalties committed, 6th in defensive.
Point Differential in '08 = -249
Point Differential in '09 = -232
Point Differential in '10 = -3
We've gone from last in Defense to 14th. 27th in offense to 11th. And the huge one, we've gone from being outscored by 249 points on the season, to being at outscored by 3 points on the season so far. My point is simply this: I know we've seen "this" before. This being a team that looks like it's going to get better, and then right when we're at the brink of success, we collapse. Trust me, I've watched it happen over and over, just like you guys. But I don't think we've ever been this close before. Did anyone REALLY think Joey Harrington was going to be "the guy"? I never did. We always drafted like a-holes, but now that Millen is gone, we've drafted remarkably well in the past 2 years. I don't see that stopping. We have a front office and a coaching staff that make us, the lowly Lions, competitive against some of the best teams in the league. I know that the argument is "we don't want competitive, we want wins", but we're close to that (just read that Yahoo! article for proof). Two years ago, if we'd played the same Jets team that we lost to, or the same Cowboys team that we lost to, it wouldn't have even been worth talking about. The point differential on those two games alone would have been at LEAST -30. I'm not saying it's wrong to have high expectations for our team. In fact, we NEED to have high expectations of our team. If Bill Ford Sr. thinks he can keep all of his money in his pockets and not help the team win, we NEED to lash out and show him that's not the case. But I don't think that's what's going on. I think people are so jaded from the Millen era that when anyone on the team makes one mistake, we instantly get reminded of 10+ years of ineptitude and failure. After that happens we want progress, we want heads to roll, we want something to show for our years of unwavering loyalty. The thing is, this is a team still trying to figure out how to win. The talent is about 85% in place, and taking that we're using what we have and trying to figure out how to beat elite teams in the NFL.
Simply put, we're almost there. And it's not the hollow "almost there" of old, where we drafted Joey Harrington and we were on our way. It's an almost there where everyone in major sports circles acknowledges we're close to turning the corner, and where, for once, the statistics back that up. It just hasn't translated into the win column.
But it will. Just give it a little more time.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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No question the team is better
and is directly related to the level of talent on this team. However, WE ALL want this to translate into WINS. Nothing scientific about that.
QUESTION: would this team be .500 if all the penalties and Staff was healthy?? I don’t know – I would like to think so. If that answer is yes then keep Schwartz. If Mayhew and Co. think the answer is no – that progress needs to be measured simply in Wins and Losses then Schwartz, Linny and Gunny must hit the road.
WILL PLAY DEFENSE FOR FOOD
by NYCLionsfan on Nov 23, 2010 4:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Well to say "if not for all the penalties" is pretty crazy.
If you’re asking if we’d have 8 wins if Stafford was throwing in every game and this team’s mentality and approach to the game was totally different? My guess is yes.
I don’t want add player does not have blue collar mentality,
even if he is great player. Piston should not quit your job. - OK from J
You can put all the stats in the world up there
But if it doesn’t translate to wins, what good is it? WE can be #1 in the league in every category, but if we’re still 1-15 what does that mean? We’re good at failing at the end. That’s it.
Exactly
we can not close out any game unless we’re ahead by 30 points or Rex Grossman signs with every team we play for the rest of the year.
WILL PLAY DEFENSE FOR FOOD
Do you realize we had a harder schedule this year than the previous years?
So despite only having 2 wins we have had to play tougher opponents for those wins. I think you would have to agree the Rams are an improved team.
by LeyandsMarlboros on Nov 24, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Schedule blaming is lame...
The other teams in our division have to play those same teams, mostly, with the exception of 2 games. The fact of the matter is until we win division games, we’ll get nowhere. We’re 0-3 this season. If we can start winning those games, then I’ll get excited.
It is really easy to look back at past failures when we were feeling like we were close
and say, did you really believe Joey Blue skies was going to be the “guy”. Hindsight is 20/20.
Do you really think Stafford is the guy. Be honest now, most importantly with yourself. 4 major injuries in 13 games played. There is no doubting his talent. Do you really believe he is going to come back this year or next and suddenly stop getting hurt?
Oh, and last I knew, an 0-8 team and a 2-8 team are not considered elite by any measure of the word.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
I'd rather give up on Schwartz, Gunny and Linny before Staff
This team just plays so different with Staff under center. I haven’t been hyped this much about a QB since we drafted Andre Ware -—- eh, nevermind. That didn’t turn out so hot!
WILL PLAY DEFENSE FOR FOOD
Like I said,
There is no part of me that wants to give up on the kid. I just have serious doubts about his durability and frankly I have doubts about how his injuries are being handled. He clearly came back too early the first time. Is that going to happen again this year?
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
But wasn't the shoulder he hurt in week 8 different from week 1??
That’s what I thought, could be wrong but I thought it was a different shoulder. STrange but the guy never got hurt once in 3 years as a starter in the tough SEC. Durability was not a concern drafting the guy……………who knows maybe erik kramer or gary danielson can come back
WILL PLAY DEFENSE FOR FOOD
lol.....
It was the same shoulder.
Hey now, the glory days of Kramer is one of the few bright spots we have to remember.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
the glory days lol
yep I really did like Kramer as I look fondly back on the good old Wayne Fontes days
by spicymchaggis on Nov 23, 2010 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
Until he went to Chicago
But even that I think the Lions were like 6-2 or 7-2 against the Bears, with Erik as their starter.
The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. - Niels Bohr
Let's just draft him and change our LUCK!
Try and trade glass joe now. He has talent no doubt about it, but when you can’t stay on the field . . . . . . . .I’m with myself on this 1 I feel let’s get rid of Staff now while we can still get something out of him.Since we will be drafting most likely 2nd overall again, go get LUCK and let’s have a QB that can take a hit.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Well here's my feeling on this
Nothing about Stafford’s college career would point to him being injury prone. And the fact is Staff is still only 22 years old. Seems like a waste to give up on a guy that is still so young. Yes if next season he gets injuried and has to miss large chunks of games. Than we can start talking about other options. And it will porbably involve more than just a new quarterback.
The fact is. There is no guarantee that Luck or any college player will or will not have issues with injuries, ie Frank Gore. We have all seen what Matthew can do when healthy. There is no guarantee that Luck was what it takes to be a quaity NFL quarterback. And I would really hate to give up on Stafford so early.
The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. - Niels Bohr
It really is a difficult line to draw
We have an absolute ton invested in this kid. Injury prone or really extremely unlucky we can not ignore the situation. That does not mean we have to trade him now. We need to give him something that any other successful young QB needs. A running game. It has been proven over and over in the past. A QBs best friend is a running game.
We have not just fallen short in this area. We have completely left a stink pile in the bed. You all know what I am saying.
All that said, if he does come back next year or god forbid this year and get injured again. We are screwed. No one in their right mind would want him in a trade. So, we can trade him now and get something for him or we can roll the dice and hope not to crap out.
We all know our history. We know what has happened when we rolled the dice in the past. I do not have an answer and I do not envy Mayhew’s choices in this situation. I know what they say in public but there has to be doubts in his mind right now. Mayhew is far too smart to not acknowledge that reality.
After saying all that, He is not going anywhere. His upside is far too high. He might end up being the best QB to never play the game but I just can’t see Mayhew parting with someone possessing his talent. We are going to see Stafford next year and possibly again this year. Pray to the football gods, sacrifice a goat to your heathen god or whatever you do. He is going to need the help.
Bye Bye Schwartz. Sooner or later, you are gone. Preferably sooner.
I'm really hoping he is.
I’m also aware that he might not be the QB we need due to injury. We have increased the talent level of most of the team. We also brought in a pretty good backup QB. I take that as meaning that the coaching staff has not placed the future of the Lions on just one player.
I’m hoping that our defense will become strong enough so that we can win as many games as the Steelers did even without Big Ben for 4 games.
by coolbreeze42 on Nov 24, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think there's any doubt that this team has progressed in terms of numbers and talent
It’s the lack of progress in intangible things such as dicipline and concentration which hurt the most. We have the ability to win games, we just don’t have that killer instinct.
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on Nov 23, 2010 10:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think whats unusual about the penalties...
Is the fact that usually a lot of penalties are associated with a young team, yet most of our penalties are from players with more experience.
by coolbreeze42 on Nov 24, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
FFFFUUUUUUUUU
I was just going to post this… I guess its my fault for being like 20 hours late LOL
All men are created equal. Its just that some men are more equal than others....
Well post it anyway...
You can never have enough stats when your trying to prove a point.
2-8
The ground zero of stats.
0-16
Is the ground zero of stats, with a 0% winrate. 2-14 is a 12.5% winrate, and 2-8 is a 20% winrate.
Improvement! Conversation ended, let’s find something new to talk about now.
CLF was right. Stanton should be starting, and Hill can’t do anything until he’s behind in the fourth quarter.
2-14 is no improvement...
2-14 this year is the same as 2-14 last year, or an increase of 0%, Schwartz/Mayhew’s only years. There was nowhere to go but up last year…it was damn near inevitable that we would at least get one win. Two wins in the NFL is NOTHING to get excited about for ANY reason or number of reasons. When you start crossing the realm of 5-6 wins, then you can say you’re close…but with 2, no. Not close at all.
We learn to finish games
Then we are a true threat are biggest problem is winning tight games and there all tight right now.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
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