Matthew Stafford - China Doll; Time to Move On
As fan's, we can do one of two things right now.
We can do what we always have done and "hope" for Stafford to return after he is heeled with no significant further injuries. We can pretend that these are all just "freak" hits, and in the future he will be more durable and run off 10-12 years of injury-free and pro bowl caliber play.
OR, we can realize this for what it is. ANOTHER failed quarterback pick for the Lions. Joey Harrington couldn't play quarterback, but he was durable. Matthew Stafford can be an amazing quarterback, but he can't stay healthy. Both were and ARE lethal to the future of our team.
Unless the NFL puts red jerseys on QB's so that they aren't allowed to be hit, or puts a flag football belt around their waist, Matthew Stafford (based on the evidence in front of us today) appears to NOT be able to play QB in this league. It's not about talent this time for the Lions, it's about having enough durability to stay on the field. If we ever want to have a future for this team, we have to stop pretending that "everything is OK" and we will be fine. Everything is NOT OK, and we will not be fine if we continue to ignore the evidence that's in front of us and take action now. So, what do we do?
It's time to get Matthew healthy and deal him to another team. Maybe the Bills or whomever gets the #1 pick next year so that we could get Andrew Luck from Stanford. Stafford has shown enough brilliance that teams will think they can get him into condition to play in this league and avoid future injury. We could get a top pick in the draft and probably another pick as well.
What if Staff gets healthy and goes on to have a brilliant and injury-free career for another team? I am willing to live with that. On the other hand, what if we keep him and ignore the warning signs in front of us today? Can we live with the reality that we very well could be playing with our 2nd and 3rd string QB's for 50% of the games for the next 4 years? Winning a few games per year and wasting all of the other talent on this team?
I, for one, cannot live with that option. I have played the "wait & hope game" with the Lions for 4 decades now, and based on my experiences as a fan I am certain that pulling the curtain on Matthew's career in Motown is the right thing to do for us...for the team, it's players, and us fans. If you are less than 30 years old, maybe you don't have enough personal experiences with the Lions to make such a bold move. I have said to myself, "maybe Landry will be the guy". Then maybe Danielson, Hipple, Long, Batch, Ware, Mitchell, Harrington, Garcia, etc, etc, etc.
Could it be a bad move where Matthew goes on to be a great NFL quarterback? Absolutely, but based on what we have witnessed so far, a reasonable person would have to say that it is a chance worth taking. Based on our franchise's lack of success, we should be willing to take the risk of making bold action based on limited information (24 games). If Martin and Jim are serious about producing a winner with no excuses for failure, then they should NOT IGNORE the red flags that are saying "CAUTION: BRIDGE OUT". Matthew is NOT the bridge to the future for us, and we need to take a detour before we run the bus off the bridge once again.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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I'm not sure I want to move on yet.
Yes, he’s had some damn terrible injuries, but we don’t even know what his injury is yet. It’s shoulder, cool, so what, maybe he separated it again, maybe it wasn’t fully healed, maybe it was just strained and he’ll be back next Sunday as well. It’s really easy to be scared and make claims like this because we don’t have the full knowledge of the extent of his injury.
Give him next season. If he still can’t stay healthy, roll with Shaun Hill and go for a top QB in 2012.
And away we go!
Not that this isn’t a justifiable opinion, but I can’t share it. On my way home from the game I couldn’t help but think what the future holds for our seemingly oft injured franchise quarterback. Then I briefly considered the alternative, then I watched Aaron Rodgers and what originally looked like Mr. Glass himself kick the living crap out of the Dallas Cowboys on prime time television. Yes this injury could be a bad one, and the results could be devastating. That being said, we’re Lions fans and we should be nothing if not patient. They are a different team with Stafford at the helm, and I’m at least willing to see him come back from this one before I will be ready to move on.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." -Mark Twain
Aaron Rodgers - Mr Glass?
He has never missed a start. What are you talking about?
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Nov 21, 2006 77 Broken foot
77 days missed in ’06 from a broken foot, numerous hamstring, shoulder, and feet injuries.
He did have a history as an injury prone player, but this was mostly before he began starting, and has put all that behind him.
Stafford can do the same.
Thank you.
It beats me doing the research, but that was my point exactly.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." -Mark Twain
Rodgers had one injury
and that makes him Mr Glass. Boy, then Matthew must be like Mr Glass Blower.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
He's had more than one injury
The hell are you talking about? I said “numerous hamstring, shoulder, and feet injuries”
And he had some bad injuries in college and high school that eventually required surgery.
He has only missed games in the NFL due to one injury
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Let him get surgery.
The league is filled with stars who used to be an injury case either in college or in the NFL and are now unquestioned.
The league is also filled with injury cases who get dealt around the league before eventually retiring or fading away in free agency.
I can’t let someone who could be the next coming of Marino go the way of the latter, especially before we even try surgery. Stafford is just too good, too smart, to write him off yet.
Besides, we have Shaun Hill when he gets healthy, as a backup. I have no problems letting S.Hill start until Stafford has recovered (when Hill gets healthy). Possibly picking up another third stringer and sending Stanton by the wayside.
Can you give me some examples?
Of QB’s that started off with multiple injuries in their first 2 seasons, and went on to have successful – injury free careers?
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Aikman
never missed more than 5 games in a season in his career:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AikmTr00.htm
Ridiculously narrow stipulations.
Are neither the point to the argument, or the fair way to go about it.
Brees comes to mind as a player who was thought to be injury prone, bandied about, and became a superstar ring winner. The Chargers muffed on that one, I would hate to muff on this one.
No joke!
They were lucky Rivers is this good or they never would have been forgiven.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
by The Profiler on Nov 8, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Brees missed most of his first year
but played 16 the next. He missed 5 games the next, but has missed only a game since.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BreeDr00.htm
Matt Schaub, Drew Brees, Steve McNair...
I could name a few more.
I’m not ready to give up on him yet, but I totally understand where you’re coming from and really don’t have a valid counterpoint except I’m not ready to give up on him just yet.
In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both
Pride of Detroits village idiot
by JazzyBBP on Nov 8, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
McNair??
Is he still trying to make a come back from his latest injury
and that was a joke dont get upset about it just trying to lighten the mood in here
shut up...
thats not funny, being pc or not. It’s just like the whole “no offense, but you should die” thing, you can’t say stupid things just because you follow it up with, I joke.
And besides, it just wasn’t a good joke.
Nobody is glad McNair's dead
He didn’t say that either. You didn’t like his joke, so keep scrolling down. Gyorick isn’t Satan. Besides, I don’t know if you know this, but you can say stupid things and just follow it up with, “I joke.” Many people have made quite lucrative careers out of it.
It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.
did I say he was glad...
but he made a crack about someone dying, so I said shut up. You could take your same advice and scroll down the page. I’m not pissed at him, and tend to agree with 99% of the things gyorick has to say.
And as far as the joke thing goes, I’m saying you can’t do it and expect it to be a free pass to say whatever you want and not get criticized for it. Thanks for the insight.
Im sorry it offended you but it was funny, it wasnt the funny you like, but i have dark sense of humor and i apologize...
but we do have a right as americans for freedom of speech. Just tell me my joke sucked and u didnt like it, there is plenty of jokes made about dead people. Micheal Jackson, Princess Diana, Hellen Keller, JFK to name a few… The point of putting in the joke part is so it stops people from getting angry.
I do appreciate it that you agree with things i say because i feel like im retarded and dont know very much and then what i do know, im not very good at explaining so atleast someone understands my random fandom
I guess...
this post was taken way too seriously, for lack of better words. I wasn’t offended and have a dark sense of humor as well, just thought it was a weak joke and I give my friends shit all the time for cracking jokes about Corey Smith, Pat Tillman, etc.
I will give you Schaub
but the others only had one injury.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Chad Pennington
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
by The Profiler on Nov 8, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Ok maybe not for my argument there
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
by The Profiler on Nov 8, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
And, just to be fair
the Stafford stats:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StafMa00.htm
You mention Shaub
But the last time I checked Shaub hadn’t taken the Texans to the playoffs or even won that much. He is barely over 500 and I don’t want Staff too be Shaub or even compared too him since he is another QB that can’t stay healthy for an entire year! I’m not ready too give up yet on Staffinfection but the Lions brass had better do something to make sure that he can get healthy and be productive for more than 4 games a year. OH wait Staff hasn’t given us 4 games in a row as of yet. I’m on the fence on this one, cause I love what he can do when he’s out there but the Glass Joe tag is being earned pretty quick. Maybe we can find a new kind of shoulder pad that can blow up like an air bag evertime Staff gets hit. Then he wont keep hurting himself on the weakest of falls.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I have already made my opinion public
Matt is to DAMN good to give up on. I honestly think and did before he came back this time that he probably needs surgery. Sam Bradford was injury prone to same thing also. He finally had surgery and he’s good to go now. I will be the last stafford fan standing if need be. He is to damn good!!!
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
He's the best 1/2 time starter in the league...for sure
You guys must be under 30. I can live with that…I would have said the same thing when I was 30—-don’t want to miss the second coming of Dan Marino.
Of course, even with his quick release, Marino got drilled often and almost never missed a game.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
DUDE, do you realize that...
in the past 2 games, Stafford has 7tds?…. 7….. 7 Touchdowns…. 7 in 2 games…. 6 passing, 1 rushing.
7tds.
7.
Yep, and do you realize he will be out the rest of the season
After being tackled by his shoelaces? That will equate to 7 TD’s divided by 16 games = …well, you get the idea.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
The thing is Jim is not tied to Stafford
If Matthew is chalked up as a failure he is too. Thats just how it works when you draft a QB like this. Matt will be around for awhile.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
by The Profiler on Nov 8, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Fine, but keep in mind that one more big injury
and we will get very little in return.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Hey, one more big injury and the lions can draft another QB...lol.
What ever.
Shit happens. Complaining about the unpredictible is use-less.
It has nothing to do with the name.
Name a quarterback for the Lions who has looked as promising as Stafford. There hasn’t been one. Joey Harrington looked promising in college, but watching him in the pros made it clear he didn’t have the stuff.
My point is that talent + durability = NFL Quarterback
You can’t have one without the other.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
But you're throwing him under the bus two seasons into it.
Sure, two huge shoulder injuries and a pending third one make this easy to say, but Staffor’ds left shoulder is holding up quite well after missing the rest of last year because of it. It just so happened he went out and killed his right one too. Unpredictable, but hey, what can you say? Chill the hell out man, wait for more news to come out about it.
Schwartz said it's a new injury to the right shoulder
NOT, and aggravation to the old injury.
Check: That’s 4 DIFFERENT injuries in 24 games.
How many does he have to have in the next 24 games before we admit that he can’t stay on the field in the NFL? Seriously, is it one more, 2, 3…when his contract is up? How long do we continue to hope before we say c’est la vie?
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Err.
I don’t get how you can correlate separate injuries with anything.
It’d be on thing if he kept injuring the same bodypart.
Four different injuries screams fluke. Especially considering you can write off one entirely as a fluke, and one of them has never bothered him again.
I just don’t get it.
Some folks compare athletes to racehorses
I hope this doesn’t mean we have to euthanize him.
I say next year’s season is the decider.
It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.
Schwartz said
that the training staff thought that if he was going to get injured, that it would be a new injury and not an aggravation of the old injury. It was an attempt to justify bringing him back when they did, not a medical diagnosis.
IMHO, this is all bullshit
He was hurt last week, cringing like crazy under his helmet. He got up pointing to his oulder. Then every time he hit the grass he was cringing. He wasn’t right when he came back last week.
Hold on Dr footstock
We still have time for him to develop into a more dependable QB. We do have Hill on a contract that we just extended. Plus we can pick someone up in the 2nd or 3rd round next year if we think we need to.
I'm going too assume your young
Cause otherwise yould remember Rodney Peete had all the talent in the world coming out of USC and he actually had a good career even if it was for every team not named Detroit.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Rodney Peete.
Was a sixth rounder, without as much pressure on him.
He also was given five years here.
My statement remains.
Of course, some of us don't have as many years left on earth to be patient
The clock is ticking…except for Schwartz. He would throw a pass to stop the clock. lol.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Actually Jim told stanton
NOT to throw it unless he could garuntee the completion. He fell on the sword for his guy by saying he felt like he didn’t make his point clear to him. As for Matt I just think 2 seasons is nothing compared to the 15 we could get from a great QB. I can’t imagaine saying you got hurt 3 times SEEYA!..Lets figure out why medicaly FIX IT. Then go from there. What ever they have done the last two times wasn’t enough the guy needs surgery I thought that in the off season. Modern Medicine can do alot including reparing a weak AC joint. IF thats what it is.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
by The Profiler on Nov 8, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Schwartz should have told him to run know matter what...
and stay inbounds.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
I'm sure Schwartz was trying to say that.
But you don’t tell a QB “don’t even think about throwing to CJ if he is in the endzone and has no defenders for miles around him.”
You do when it's your 3rd stringer holding the ball
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
You don't.
That’s idiotic. You say “run the ball, eat the sack if you have to, but if something’s wide open, take a shot.”
Yes, you do
Don’t throw no matter what. We didn’t need the points. We needed to eat the clock. We needed to have different goals in that situation. No touchdown, no pass completion, YES eat 40 seconds.
You would have thought he learned something from Mangini last year. They tried the exact same thing against us and it cost them the game.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Then
You don’t call the play. When calling that play, you don’t say “here, hold onto the ball and eat a sack.”
You say, “run the ball or eat the sack, but if something’s wide open, take a shot.” Stanton miscued.
Yes, you call the play.
It’s called a bootleg….it is NOT called a bootleg option pass.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
you don't pass it at all that stage of the game. time is more valuable.
I thought being lazy was a bad thing, So I gave up thinking.
A first down ices the game
not a first down doesn’t. OF COURSE THEY WANTED A FIRST DOWN! We’re not talking TDs, we’re talking the few yards to a first down that would have won the game for us in victory formation. Of course you tell your QB to at least try and see if it’s there.
coming into this game stanton had better ratings than Sanchez dont be silly
stanton hasnt exactly been in high pressure situations in the NFL not to mention that much playing time, they were going for the win plain and simple. If they run it and burn the clock and they still come down and tie it. THE SAME PEOPLE BITCHING ABOUT PLAY ACTION PASS WOULD BE HERE BITCHIN THAT SCHWARTZ IS A NUTLESS PUSSY AND YOU ALWAYS PLAY FOR THE WIN.
thats the great thing about being a fan you can always switch your stance on how you would of played cause hindsight is a great thing isnt it.
Man Gyo, I'm trying hard to agree with you here.
I guess what I’m saying is for a 4th year player his situational awareness is less then zero.
I liked what I saw in the Giants game.
If it wasn’t for Burleson’s fumble or Pettigrew’s stone hands… Stanton was close to winning that game.
i agree but none of us will ever know that type of pressure in that type of situation so...
i have a tough time trashing him when i fumbled and bumbled around proposing to my wife. Just stinks for him and it stinks for us.
Well he hasnt ran out the back of an endzone yet so im not sure if his situational awareness is as bad as others that got alot more starts around here than he has. Not to mention that we werent even in the game with the vikes
just need to keep our heads up and come back strong this week...
We need a good week of POD talk get the fans together have a beer, see what comes of these injuries, and see if we cant start analyzing the Bills.
Did you see the cowboys play that was giving up and packing it in, our guys havent given up and we werent even mentioned as superbowl favorites. We play hard as hell and i couldnt be prouder to be a lions fan.
Yeah, the Cowboys are pure joke and an embarrassment to their city and themselves.
Wade should be canned today from what I’ve heard, it may have happened already.
There are worse QB's in the league than Stanton.
However; there are also potential starters out there looking for a job that just need a chance. We have to let him go for a chance at someone better.
That is unreasonable
I don’t care if he completed it for a first down. I would have said that it was an unnecessary risk that didn’t need to be taken.
To win in the NFL consistently, you have to play the percentages. You don’t throw the ball when the team has no time outs inside the two minute warning. Regardless of the outcome, my stance absolutely wouldn’t have changed. Jim is supposed to be the chessmaster, and he was check-mated.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Bull shit.
You would be insanely happy if he completed it for a first down. In fact, none of this would be happening. You wouldn’t be bitching and complaining about the call if it worked. Don’t tell me that you would.
I had an ant farm once, but them fellas didn't grow shit
- 1 fucking gazillion
Happy for the win…yes. Happy for our success? Yes.
Happy for the call? No, abso-fucking-lutely not!!!!!!!
It’s football 101 and good play or bad play, I will always say it is a stupid move. Ask me the next time they do that (with the lead, the other team with no time outs, and less than 2 minutes left) and are successful and I will give you the same answer. But I hope they leaned their lesson from Mangini and now Schwartz and don’t do it again.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
You're saying that you would be pissed off if Stanton completed that pass for a first down?
No. You would be giddy.
I had an ant farm once, but them fellas didn't grow shit
Read my previous reply...
appy for the win…yes. Happy for our success? Yes.
Happy for the call? No, abso-fucking-lutely not!!!!!!!
I think that pretty much answers your question. First down…hooray. Decision….booo. Is that clear enough?
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
I think they should have just taken a knee
As insane as that sounds it would have given us a better chance. As stupid as it would have looked.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
by The Profiler on Nov 8, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
A knee on all 3 plays was the right move.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Why would you giver a 3rd stringer a chance to throw against the Jets?
Just stupid.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Another stupid thing you have said
HE’S IN THE NFL. He can make throws. If you were pissed about our punter throwing on that play, then so be it. But he is a QB in the NFL. He can throw a ball.
I had an ant farm once, but them fellas didn't grow shit
Bighaircut
Have you actually watched Stanton play??? No Stanton can NOT throw the ball, but he can scramble real good. Stanton has missed more open WR’s than any other QB in the league, I think you should take back your statement about him being a QB in general.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Boy, you are really full of wisdom tonight.
Keep going, you are on a roll bighair demonstrating your true genius.
Let’s open up a new poll and send it to all of the SBNation sites.
If you have the lead, but your 3rd string QB is in, with less than 2 minutes left—-do you want him throwing the ball. A) BigHaircut says “ABSOLUTELY….He’s a pro. Let ’em sling it!”
You’re right BigHairCut, and SO very SMART!! The rest of the entire NFL coaching fraternity is wrong. Not only would 30 of 32 NFL head coaches not let their 3rd string QB throw it, they also wouldn’t let their 1st string QB throw it.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
You are obviously reading it wrong
Of fucking course he shouldn’t throw the ball. I’m positive our coach said not to throw it, but you were saying that if anyone was completely open you still don’t want anyone throwing that ball. If CJ was open in the middle of the field you wouldn’t want him throwing that ball? Ridiculous.
I never said sling the ball on 3rd down with our 3rd stringer under 2 minutes. I said Stanton can make throws, and if someone was wide open, go for it, I trust him to make a wide open throw. He made a stupid mistake, obviously.
I had an ant farm once, but them fellas didn't grow shit
NO! Open or not it is a BAD MOVE!
Bad passes happen…even to wide open receivers. Drops happen…even to wide open receivers. Good defensive plays happen…even to wide open receivers.
It was more important, especially against the best defense in the NFL, to chew the time off of the clock than to roll the dice and try to get a first down. I would have been pleased if we took 3 kneel-downs and punted the ball to leave them with 1:10 on the clock.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Besides, which is it? Throw it or not? You contradicted yourself.
Of fucking course he shouldn’t throw the ball.
Stanton can make throws, and if someone was wide open, go for it, I trust him to make a wide open throw.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
That was the biggest bone head move I have seen!!
Stanton has been in the league for four years and doesn’t know how to manage the clock., Really?? Maybe we should just forfeit the next two games and spend a couple weeks learning how winning teams manage the clock!!
ill be standing there with you...
he will come back and be better than ever, everyone will be back it will be great.
I wrote a post last night and I still feel that way
We are on the brink of something really special we just need to hold on it gonna be hard for a little while yet but it will be worth it.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
by The Profiler on Nov 8, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Ill have to find it and read it...
Sucks we lost for sure but this is what i dont get. I realize that we all want to win and we all think that lions could possibly be undefeated if a play goes this way and or a player played here and all that jazz. But were playing good football and the games are entertaining, and were losing close games not blowouts to everyteam. Thats what makes my sundays better is the fact is there is improvement and they need another offseason. There will be more losses and more losses, it will be an emotional roller coaster so we will have to wait and see
exactly
We haven’y had a team with this much potential in decades. Even with Barry the team as a whole wasn’t this good.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
by The Profiler on Nov 8, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
+1
What we have seen is a positive realistic result. I am definitely still pleased with 2010 Lions.
We definitely need to see the extent of this injury, and there’s no sense in considering trading Stafford right now. For what it is worth, every player may be traded if the situation becomes right. With Staff, he has demonstrated more than any QB I have ever seen wearing a Lions’ uniform. Durability is obviously an issue. Perhaps, we may get an offer that will need to be entertained. That offer would have be enormous in my opinion.
Schwartz needs to hang out Stanton to dry, if Stanton went against play calling. If not, then Schwarts needs to own up to it, and take the deserved blame square on the chin. That was ridiculous.
I disagree
Any good coach would never hang a player out to dry. He took responsibillity thats what a coach should do. His fault are not you defend your players to the end.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
I agree with your general rule
but definitely disagree this time.
Why?
Because this one call was so bad, it allows our national reputation to remain as pathetic losers. My assumption is the same as yours, that Schwarz is covering for Stanton. If this is what happened, then Schwarz is doing the right thing.
If the call given was either ambiguous or wrong, Schwarz is slyly backing away from responsibility – while posing as the good coach who protects his player.
I only know that the decision to pass was awful. I want to believe in Schwarz. But, to do that, I have to believe that Stanton is much worse than I ever imagined.
I stand corrected.
Reading what Schwartz said, compared to what I was told Schwarz said has made my statement completely off base. Sorry.
Lesson learned. Unfortunately, not for the first time.
Way too early to give up on Stafford
Am I concerned about his shoulder? Yes. Do I think we should try to trade or give up on a 23 year old QB who’s played very well this year when healthy? Absolutely not. It’s way too early to even be thinking about that. Matt started every game in 3 years at Georgia playing in the SEC. Remember that Bradford injured his shoulder twice in the same year, yet he’s played a health free season so far.
We have one of the best back up QB’s in the league, who’s only 30 years old. We need to make sure Hill sticks around for at least the next couple seasons. Let’s play out a couple more seasons to see if Mathew continues to get inuired. If he continually gets injured over the next couple seasons then we can revisit this topic.
Footstock you have balls to tell it like it is
But I voted to keep Stafford 1 more year, I’m pissed off about his injuries just like anybody but I can’t cut the cord just yet.
But your point is valid, he could get hurt again and then were up shits creek another 3-5 years grooming another QB.
That’s why I say play Stanton the rest of the season, Hill is better right now, Staton has more ceiling potenial too me.
Stanton has ceiling potential?
I don’t think I’ve seen anything out of Stanton in four years that would indicate that he will ever be a competent NFL quarterback who can be relied on to produce more good plays than bad plays. Stanton is terrible. The only reason Stanton is on our roster is because Millen thought it was a good idea to pick him, and Mayhew doesn’t have enough draft picks to fix every hole Millen left us in only two years, and third-string quarterback is a very low priority when you have as many needs as the Lions did when Mayhew took over.
If Hill and Stafford are out, I would not be upset one bit if we started Derrick Williams at QB over Drew Stanton.
Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...
What I meant is given playing time he could have a higher ceiling than Hill
How many games have Stanton started???
How many games have Hill started???
That’s what I’m trying to say, we’ve only watched Stanton start one game on the road, I’d like to see a little more before we throw him away. Remember he played dam good in the Giants game….
Stanton did not play well against the Giants
Because the safety took a bad angle and Calvin Johnson took that catch 87 yards for a touchdown, it boosted Stanton’s stats tremendously. If Calvin gets tackled for a 20-yard gain instead of breaking away for 87 yards, that brings Stanton’s rating from 73.4 down to 65.2. With a 55% completion %. 1td-1int. and a fumble.
Stanton’s performance against the Giants was below average at best. Especially for a fourth-year former second-round pick who has been on this team his whole career and has never done enough to a spot as the #2 qb under these coaches or the last ones.
If a quarterback shows so little upside that he is never able to even become the #2 after four seasons, then how much does he actually have to go out on the field and fail to confirm what the coaches already seem to know?
Hill can play pretty well and win games whenever he gets his non-throwing arm to a point where it won’t hurt his game too much.
Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...
WHAT?
So you take credit away for him hitting CJ with a perfectly thrown ball (between 2 defenders)…. and take more credit away for Pettigrew’s stone hands causing the INT… AND Burleson’s fumble?
Come’on, look at the game before pulling **** stats out of your ass.
okay, don't disregard any plays: the Giants game was a still below-average performance by Stanton,
compared to how an NFL QB should be expected to play,
And I believe Hill would have played better than Stanton had he not been injured, and that Hill gives our team a much better chance to win than Stanton does, and that, taking everything Stanton has showed for his entire career to this point, he does not look like he’s developing into a competent NFL QB who can lead his team to win. If Stafford and Hill are both out injured, Stanton can change have the opportunity my mind, but he hasn’t done that at all so far.
Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...
That's where we disagree.
Does he have flaws? sure
Does he play ugly? Sure does
Did he put the Lions in a place to win the game? Sure did.
Like it or not, stanton moved the ball well during the Giants game. He was making plays, while the guys he threw to did not.
So I guess if your point is; the players don’t make plays with Stanton… then you may have a point.
Further more... you need to take a second look at that CJ pass...
Its pretty insulting for you to take that away from stanton.
like I said in my post above
okay, don’t disregard any plays: the Giants game was a still below-average performance by Stanton,
There were three important things that happened on that play that made it an 87-yard touchdown:
1. good throw by Stanton
2. good catch by CJ
3. bad angle by the safety so he couldn’t make the tackle
Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...
WRONG....
1. Good read by stanton
2. Good throw by stanton
3. Good catch by CJ
That got us with in one score…
Then what happened? Defense holds…..
Stanton starts driving the offense…. Burleson fumbles
Defense holds again.
And here’s your quote….
Because the safety took a bad angle and Calvin Johnson took that catch 87 yards for a touchdown, it boosted Stanton’s stats
If that’s not slapping Stanton in the face, I don’t know what is.
Stanton drives offense (hurry up this time)…
Pettigrew has a high passed ball hit both hands, which is tipped into the hands of the safety 8 yds behind Pett.
Game over.
by CLF on Nov 8, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
If the safety made the tackle, it's a good gain for a first down
because he didn’t, it goes 87 yards. Yards after the catch, especially by a really fast guy like CJ are more the product of the speed of the ballcarrier and how well the defense reacts than the quarterback.
If Stanton makes a good 20 yard throw, and a defender misses a tackle, that’s not a “slap in the face” to Stanton—it becomes a great play by the offense that would have merely been a good play.
Pettigrew has a high passed ball hit both hands, which is tipped into the hands of the safety 8 yds behind Pett.
and who threw the pass too high?
Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...
LOL....
Isn’t just about every offensive gain due to a mistake by the defender?
lol.
A QB’s job is to read defensive mistakes and exploit them.
Its also a QB’s job to hit the receiver in the hands…. once it hits the receiver’s hands, is it the QB’s fault that the receiver doesn’t catch it? sure that’s debatible.
But sorry, first you slam stanton as “not having any upside”… then you follow it up by blaming the big play Stanton DID make as a gaff by the safety, which by the way if you bothered to look at the full replay bit on the under out route of pettigrew and took HIMSELF out of position, which the play was designed to do, which was exicuted flawlessly by stanton.
But what ever, stanton sucks, nevermind he came in cold, and despite the early gaff of a fumble managed the rest of the game to with in one score…. compiliing 3 good drives, where 2 ended due to gaffs by fellow receivers.
What ever.
by CLF on Nov 8, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, I see it like this...
It all starts with the play calling.
The Jets were ready for the boot.
by CLF on Nov 8, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Agree
The coaches see them every day in practice, so I assume they know better than I do, and they put him at 3rd string. So, that leads me to believe that Hill gives us a better opportunity to win. That’s a belief that I share.
You dont just become a Veteran for being on the team, thats why we got hill he has tenure and ability.
Hes not a four year vet, stafford has played more games than Stanton, but yet we say but Stafford needs more time to become a great a QB. But Stanton should just know how to play even though he never gets in. That logic is so mind boggling.
I dont care to even give stanton the time to get better but I dont think you can just act like he is some sort of tenured vet with all this game experience and knowledge.
I'm not saying he's a seasoned vet. But I am saying that he has not done enough to earn the opportunity to start over Hill
If Stanton was good enough that we could be hopeful that he’ll become a good quarterback, then he wouldn’t be behind Shaun Hill on the depth chart. He would have showed the coaching staff that he’s good enough to be the #2 because he can come in and play well when Stafford goes down.
Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...
Alright but this offseason we still needed a QB...
would you rather go get someone with less game time experience than Stanton or would you rather get a guy who has won and lost some games and is pretty decent. In a perfect world we would be able to play stanton a whole season and then we could say yay or nay, but that would be in a perfect world. Who knows we might see stanton next week in Buffalo, so you better get your popcorn.
I just think
when a guy has had three whole seasons in the NFL on the same team, that guy should prove by then that he can be the #1 qb, or at a minimum the #2 qb. The fact that Stanton didn’t develop to a point where he could show enough to at least be the backup, to me, shows a lack of upside in the eyes of the coaches.
Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...
Sure, in a black and white world...
Also, a #2nd round pick wouldn’t be put on IR his first year…. have his mechanics fucked with the 2nd year…. and have a #1 QB be drafted his 3rd year.
DOH!
by CLF on Nov 8, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, and he would show enough upside that the coaches would see it worth making him the backup to the #1. He hasn’t so far.
Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...
Fair enough, BUT....
With 3 coordinators in the first 3 years… which scheme did you want him to show “UPSIDE” in?
by CLF on Nov 8, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
okay, I'm done arguing about Stanton
you win.
Our fourth-year former second-round pick who has never earned better than a third-string position, who has twice as many career fumbles as touchdowns, who has three and a half times as many interceptions as touchdowns, who has a career 52.9 completion %, who doesn’t understand not to throw the ball but simply fall down to burn the clock, will someday develop into a competent quarterback for this team.
I’ll try not to be overly pessimistic about Stanton, and I’ll look forward to the fruit of what potential you’re seeing that I’m not. Go Stanton! I’m going to go get some lunch…
Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...
Don't Condescend me...
Our fourth-year former second-round pick who has never earned better than a third-string position, who has twice as many career fumbles as touchdowns, who has three and a half times as many interceptions as touchdowns, who has a career 52.9 completion %, who doesn’t understand not to throw the ball but simply fall down to burn the clock, will someday develop into a competent quarterback for this team.
AS NONE of these has to do with our conversation.
My only argument is that Stanton showed poise, compentency, and major improvement with regards to the giants game. YOU DO NOT THINK THIS. Instead you take all his previous failures and packaged them all into proving a point about a stupid play call MADE BY THE COACH!
by CLF on Nov 8, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
poise...
is the wrong word. Stanton never looks comfortable in the pocket and always looks awkward and he makes things look much more difficult than other QB’s in the league.
Also, the playcall by the coach was the right thing, as it put the judgment in the hands of Stanton. Run a bootleg, that way you have the option of either running for it/taking a sack and letting time tick off to give your defense the chance to hopefully win it, or you have a easy/open throw to a receiver who is in position to get the first down and end the game. Schwartz’ only mistake was not cutting Stanton and having a QB in there that is capable of throwing to a man who is open in the flats. I blame that completely on Stanton, Schwartz went with a play that didn’t force our hand one way or the other, Stanton just couldn’t execute it.
I beg to differ... during the Giants game, he did good in the pocket.
by CLF on Nov 8, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ondUoC7eeuc
besides the fumble on his first series… Stanton showed his improvement and patience in the pocket.
by CLF on Nov 8, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgf7PLQp1DE
And maybe you want to watch that bootleg again…. and what a shitty playcall it was.
by CLF on Nov 8, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
I still don't see how it is a shitty playcall...
it gives Stanton options. Maybe that is why its a bad playcall, but if that’s Stafford or Hill, we are talking about how smart he is for falling down or for completing the pass to Felton. Stanton should’ve taken the sack or completed the easy throw to Felton. The play call gave Stanton the ability to form decisions based on what the defense gave him, and he chose the wrong option. It’s not like Stanton was lined up in shot gun and in a 4 receiver set running all trips.
Once again, shitty execution on the part of one of the worst QB’s in the league, no a shitty playcall. Seriously, Rex Grossman could’ve pulled that off better.
It's Stiffieville over Stanton for some.
The 24 hour mourning period is over…..Stanton SUCKS and should be out of here on the day after game 16 this year.
Stantons ceiling potential
I think of a drop ceiling with 1 hanger holding up the whole frame! Stanton must go after this year, PERIOD!
How many lumps you want Doc?
It is seriously getting to the point where the question needs to be asked.
That said, when he’s on the field he’s good. Real good. I think you let the guy have surgery and see if he can stay up like Bradford. If he does, we’ve got a top-half or top-ten QB with a bright future ahead of him. Otherwise, it’s back to the drawing board while Calvin gets a year older.
by Jamesir Bensonmum on Nov 8, 2010 11:58 AM EST reply actions
Brutal honest
If we give up on Matt..Calvin hits free agency I honestly feel CJ will not sign to return.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
Fucked up situation. CJ just had a career game. Imagine what he good do with a solid, healthy QB
I might be one of the few who hopes Megatron stays and retires a Lion.
I don’t want add player does not have blue collar mentality,
even if he is great player. Piston should not quit your job. - OK from J
I want nothing more than too keep Megatron
If Matt is givin the boot I think when his contract is up Calvin will walk.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
You guys know there is this thing
Called a franchise tag. Calvin can only walk if the FO lets him. At least till Megatron starts giving half efforts like Moss!
How many lumps you want Doc?
Also we have to look at CJ age right now, how old is he??? 25 or 26
His most productive years are right now untill about 30, if we give up on Stafford I don’t want to be the one that say’s it but start shopping CJ too. He’s worth alot of picks….
Its hard to swallow
But your probably right. We lose two potential GREAT players.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
by The Profiler on Nov 8, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Good post, footstock
Here are my thoughts:
1. About your “younger Lions fans” comments: I disagree here. I don’t think failures of quarterbacks in previous decades should have any bearing on the Stafford situation. Suppose the Lions built a dynasty in the 70’s and won 4 superbowls then, like the Steelers did—should that make us any more optimistic about today’s Lions?
Failures or successes of previous Lions players long gone from the team have no effect on the actual probability that future Lions are going to succeed or fail (except maybe in the minds of fans who remember those failures). Joey Harrington’s failures don’t make Stafford any more likely to fail. Barry Sanders playing 10 years as a Lion doesn’t make Jahvid Best any more likely to be a great running back.
2. Whether to keep Stafford — I think the smart thing is to give a first-round pick three years. Not two years. ESPECIALLY when he shows that he’s a damn good quarterback, like he has so far this year.
3. keeping Stafford vs. trading to pick Andrew Luck:
Stafford showed in college that he could be a very good NFL QB and deserved to be a very high draft pick.
Andrew Luck is showing in college that he could be a very good NFL QB and deserves to be a very high draft pick.
Stafford never had a problem with injuries in college.
Luck never had a problem with injuries in college.
We already know Stafford can play very well as an NFL QB when he’s healthy.
Nobody knows how well a college player can play when he gets to the NFL.
If we gave up on Stafford and traded him away to pick up a new rookie quarterback, we’d be taking steps backward to where we were two years ago—bringing in a new talented rookie, watching him probably struggle as he learns the ropes and can hopefully develop into a good QB over a couple of years.
I think, most importantly, nobody knows how much of bad luck, bad conditioning, and bad genetic makeup have contributed to Stafford being constantly injured. It’s easy to be pessimistic, probably especially the longer you’ve been a fan of this team, and assume that if he’s hurt in his first two years that he’ll always get hurt, but I don’t think this is a certainty—any more than the certainty that Andrew Luck will be a good NFL QB who can stay healthy.
If Stafford can’t stay healthy next year, then we can look elsewhere for a QB. But I think the right thing is to give him three years, not two.
Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...
by n4ry4 on Nov 8, 2010 12:03 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Ditto
Too small of a snapshot in his career to make a snap judgment on his future health. I’m certainly not ready to give up on this kid, he’s got all the tools to be a top quarterback in this league, he just needs to be out there.
by FrankHarrison on Nov 8, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't "being out there" one of the tools you need to be an NFL QB?
Then he doesn’t have all of the tools yet, right?
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
He should get four years minimum....
Hell, Harrington got that many. The difference is that Stafford has shown flashes of being great… not just good. With the investment made, he should get every chance to build his legacy here in Detroit.
Four calendar years or Four Stafford years?
Cuz the way it’s going, 4 Stafford years is the equivalent of 8 calendar years.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
and his legacy is building daily
china doll.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Now you're just being dumb
I didn’t expect this from you, footstock. You’re simply fighting to uphold your point and abandoning reason.
Great comment
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on Nov 8, 2010 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
I can only place blame on the training staff
Its not just Matt guys…We lose 3 to 4 guys on any given game. Houston, Phonz this injury crap has to stop! You can say Matt is weak what about the rest of the team..Look at the injury report compared to 31 other teams. We have a problem somewere.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
True. The Jets injury list had 4 people on it
Ours had like 14. Coincidence?
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
The most important thing is how the players feel
Stafford seems to have the support of his team. That means something. If they value this guy and I admit I have no knowledge specifically but it seems they do. Then shouldn’t we as fans….
Until the players want change Staff is the man..
And if there are feelings in the locker room that he is not legit it will leak eventually
Internet anonymity = the only place where you can find out what someone really thinks
The real point is... Everyone here is very emotionally invested in this team, and the loss sucks...
I just dont believe that the SAME OLD LIONS shtick is the right saying plain and simple. Were headed in a very different direction than any same old lions team. Cant explain it well enough im just sick of hearing guess im too young to understand but whats that other saying… cant teach old dogs new tricks maybe thats the problem
you could be right
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
by The Profiler on Nov 8, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
just look at it this way
If you are wrong then you can blame it on being young. If older people are wrong then they have been duped again just like all those other years.
Seriously chin up
Detroit is out there competing there ass off and it hurts because we are close to beating teams that are title contenders.
I mean this team is putting on a serious show almost every Sunday.
Every week now I legitamitely believe if the breaks fall our way we can beat anyone. What else do you want from your football team….
Internet anonymity = the only place where you can find out what someone really thinks
Thats the B
Tight wins sting more cause you know how close you were to the win that getting blowin out. The wins will come
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
by The Profiler on Nov 8, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely
This team is still playing for respect. That’s why Peterson makes dumb penalties hitting people out of bounds. That’s why Smith jumps up to return an interception instead of taking a knee in the end zone. They are still playing nervous as if every play might mean the game.
Imagine next year when they expect to win. It’s going to be unbelievable!!!
I mean screw the playoff hunt. We were not ready this year and it would have been amazing but we are not ready
But you know what will be fun? Seeing the look on New England and Green Bay and Minnesotas face when they are holding there breath every second of every game when they play us this season
Internet anonymity = the only place where you can find out what someone really thinks
Belive that!
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
by The Profiler on Nov 8, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
hmmm....
I was sitting in that endzone and Smith’s landing was too close to call with regards to “taking a knee” in the endzone.
He did the right thing to try to gain some yds.
Fair enough
I am just saying it seems they are playing jittery and once they expect to win. It’s going to be a different team out there and all hell is going to break lose…..
Internet anonymity = the only place where you can find out what someone really thinks
Smith landed on the half yard line
his momentum carried him into the endzone. The ball would have been spotted where he landed. At the half yard line.
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
I Understand How You Feel Footstock
I am 46 years old myself, and have seen so many promising quarterbacks come to this team in my lifetime with hopes of becoming the next franchise saviour that it is easy for me to understand your frustrations. The only difference here, my friend, is that Stafford has talent that is FAR beyond any QB that has been on this roster since Bobby Layne. I would be more inclined to drafting, and acquiring through free agency, better offensive lineman to protect Stafford from taking hits like he took last year against Cleveland, and this year against the Bears. I understand that yesterday’s hit was on a scramble, and I chalk that up to not being completely healed from the Peppers hit. I have pondered the idea of dealing Stafford for the same reason, but after thinking it through, the bottom line is that he is just too good and too young to give up on yet. Keep the faith, brother.
My point is that if we wait too long to make a determination on his future
We are going to get stuck with a 6 year commitment on a guaranteed contract that no one else would be willing to absorb. Assuming he gets surgery this year, if he has one more big injury, we are going to swallow the next 4 years of his contract….and that will have salary cap implications.
The best part for staff is that he will get surgery this year, we won’t have a season next year (except with scabs playing), and he can come back stronger than ever in 2012.
Why is it so hard for us to except evidence that is plainly in front of us? He has started 3 games in about a year now. Knee, left shoulder, right shoulder….he is a great talent, but if he can’t stay on the field he can’t help us win.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Thats actually a good point
If he has surgery and we don’t play he should %100 and have ALOT of time to work on his return.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
Regarding the Stafford injury- I saw him clutching his chest near the collar bone, before the hit that took him out of the game, I’m also pretty sure I saw him holding his ribs after he got up and made his way to the sidelines. Like Romo, it’s possible he hurt his clavicle or maybe even broke a rib or two over the course of the game. Just a guess.
I think it’s time we look hard at addressing the QB situation, everybody but Hill is in question, to me.
I don’t want add player does not have blue collar mentality,
even if he is great player. Piston should not quit your job. - OK from J
He could have bruised a rib too
Which would mean a return is likley soon
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
Yeah I should've said bruised/broken
Obviously hoping for bruised.
I don’t want add player does not have blue collar mentality,
even if he is great player. Piston should not quit your job. - OK from J
'91 when the Lions lost to the 'Skins
in the NFC Champoinship game. That is a game that people can cry and moan about. Not losing to the Jets in week 9 by a field goal.
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
+1
good point Cruize.
BTW – giving up on Staff this early is non-sensical in my book.
WILL PLAY DEFENSE FOR FOOD
I know man, I don't wanna give up on him either.
Maybe give Stafford some big bodies up front. Schwartz is building a solid D-Line, I’d love to see him start building a solid O-Line in tandem, if possible.
I don’t want add player does not have blue collar mentality,
even if he is great player. Piston should not quit your job. - OK from J
The kid is 22 years old
he does really have his NFL body yet. Give him some time to grow.
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
Good point. I guess every person develops differently.
I don’t want add player does not have blue collar mentality,
even if he is great player. Piston should not quit your job. - OK from J
Hey, I still say we were robbed by the officails that game. Redskins were holding and tackling our D-line all game
I thought being lazy was a bad thing, So I gave up thinking.
Devils Advocate
While I agree, that was a more meaningful loss, it was also a blowout against the eventual Super Bowl Champions. Better teams have suffered the same and eventually bounced back. What makes this loss worse (in my opinion) is that the Lions have apparently never recovered from that loss. While I wouldn’t dare call them insignificant players in the NFL since then (the 90’s Lions were comparably a dynasty compared to the Millen Lions), it was arguably the last time they were relevant. A win yesterday, would of marked for many of us, a return to NFL relevance and I think that’s why this loss stings so badly.
"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer." -Mark Twain
the Lions made 5 playoff appreances after that NFC Championship game
So how did the Lions not bounce back from that game? Again, the Lions lost in a week 9 game by 3 points to the Jets. Do I need to bring a box of Kleenex for all the fans that are crying the sky is falling?
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
No offense, Footstock...
you are a smart guy and I typically agree with what you have to say, but this is a bunch of hogwash.
Everyone on this site seems like an intelligent enough fan to know that quarterbacks – good one – are a damn rare commodity. Stafford is going to be a good one. To think that he can’t heal up and be a factor for this team in the future is shortsighted at best. You don’t give up a good quarterback after two injuries. That makes no sense. And then where do we go from there? Expending another high draft pick on a guy that “might” be good. No, no, no, no, no!
We have a good quarterback under contract and we have to see where this thing goes. It really, really, really, really sucks that we have been cursed with Stafford getting hurt. It’s all a great big stinking tragedy that has brutally affected our season. And that’s the end of it. Stafford will heal and when he is, he will get the chance to pick up where he left off… and that was on the verge of being one of the better young quarterbacks in this league.
Why does this site have the propensity of going to extremes all the time? I don’t get it at all. Stafford gets hurt again and it’s trade the guy time? How the hell does this happen? Do these games really cloud everyone’s thinking that much? I don’t get it and likely never will. All is not lost. Stafford’s career is not over. The Lions future is not bleak. The sun will rise tomorrow. Good frickin’ grief.
A close loss to the Jets, collapse or no- really doesn't mean much.
Stafford’s career is not over. The Lions future is not bleak. The sun will rise tomorrow. Good frickin’ grief.
Agreed. The NFL has such parity. Hope Hill’s arm is healing fast because he’s the key to any wins while Stafford sits.
I don’t want add player does not have blue collar mentality,
even if he is great player. Piston should not quit your job. - OK from J
+1
I cant believe this BS thread. Anyone who read this and thought getting rid of stafford was a good idea is out of their mind. Stafford is going to be a great QB. It really sucks that he is hurt, but he is too good to consider giving up on.
As for Stanton, he was a solid/decent college QB. thats it. He has shown that he does not have what it takes to be an nfl QB. I hope he catches on somewhere and all the best but he needs to go. I would rather throw culpepper out there.
That being said, THIS LOSS IS ON THE COACHES! Fvucking terrible game overall. Why didnt harris kick the damn XP?? Why do we continually put our team in a position to fail? It isnt stantons fault (completely)..I think the coaching staff is great in the offseason, but all the questionable decisions during games are really bothering me.
I think the main point is
1st year had injury problems
2nd year had inury problems
3rd???
Mind you these are not little injury problems he’s having, there 1/2 a season type injuries. I think the extreme is were starting to wonder what happens Stafford year 3. And if that terrible day does happen what do we do.
I’m sure the president isn’t hoping for a nuclear war but I’m happy there’s a plan of action if one does happen.
And yes I just compared Stafford getting hurt again to a nuclear war, so what, what to fight about it….. LOL!!!!!!
If Stafford does indead miss the rest of the season
He will have played just over 2 games this season. That is a whole hell of a lot less than 1/2 a season.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
Damn Drew I can see that silver and blue steam cloud all the way over here lol
The upside is you’re getting a whole bunch of ‘I told ya so’ chits for future use. Of little use now, you’ll certainly get to lay the wood with them later on. The organization loves Matthew, he aint going anywhere, well except to rehab and the like
by YpsilantiJeff on Nov 8, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Is it just this site Drew?
Bill Cowher said he would rather have Sanchez or Freeman because matt hasn’t shown he can remain healthy. Shannon Sharpe said the same thing. Maybe people on this site just continue to be die-hards instead of looking at cold hard facts?
And now it’s 4 injuries in less than 2 seasons. Left shoulder, knee, right shoulder, right shoulder. This post isn’t meant to be about the loss yesterday, but about the loss of Stafford once again.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Mike irvin said he's a great player
He just needs to find a way to stay heathy..I could care less what Cower or Sharpe say there just opinions…like every one on POD has theres. Facts are he’s been hurt with the shoulder twice and once with a knee. Wether or not we should give up on him, Trade him, draft a new QB that is all just opinions.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
I said he is quite a talented player...
But to be “great” you have to be on the field. That’s like saying someones a great salesman but they never make any sales calls.
A talented player who’s inactive due to injury week in and week out is not a great player.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Yea but a great GM and Coach
Is willing to give a great player time to to prove himself.
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
So a player has a run of injuries and they can no longer be great?
Under your theory you’d have to write them all off. You realize that’s what you are doing, right? You are writing Stafford off. After less than 2 full seasons. Don’t you think that’s a bit rash? He’s a 22 year old kid with a full career ahead of him. If he was 30 and had these injuries, I’d say his odds of coming back would be less. But he has his whole career ahead of him… as a Lion.
The other part of this ridiculous argument is that the organization LOVES him. He is going nowhere, so this whole cockamamie scheme is moot.
he has played in 13 games and had at least 3 major injuries
potentially 4 after yesterday.
13 games.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
Two words... SO. WHAT?
That means nothing except it’s been a big string of bad luck and that is all truly unfortunate. But he will heal and come back later this season or next year or whenever he’s healthy and give it a go once more.
All you negative ass chicken littles screaming that the sky is falling need to suck on a valium or two and just chill the fuck out. None of you know how this this is going to end, so don’t pretend to. Nostradamuses you ain’t. This isn’t just pointed at you, Joshsun… this is an all-encompassing retort to those who think that they can tell the future based on what has happened in the past.
The injuries are most certainly a huge disappointment. But it means nothing for the future other than setting us back the time he will miss this year. He will heal, condition, strengthen and hopefully that’s the end of this streak of injuries. Why always take the panicky, negative side of things? I just wanna yank my hair out around here when these things happen.
hopefully that’s the end of this streak of injuries
You said it all there. Streak of injuries. That is history that suggests a probable future.
I know it seems all negative nelly and all that but you can not deny the numbers. 4 injuries that caused missed time of 1 game or more in 13 games played. Over 30% of the games he has played resulted in him suffering an injury that required lost starts.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
Er.
That’s fallacious logic. A history of separate, random events, does not suggest any probable future.
These events are not random. He has injured his shoulders 3 times and his knee once. Sure you could toss out the knee injury as something that happens and you could toss out the off shoulder injury as not worrisome but two injuries to his throwing shoulder. In 13 total games played. That is a pattern.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
Two seperate injuries.
Isn’t a pattern. Words like “shoulder” are only used for laymen to understand an area of the body made up of separate individual parts.
Yep... and that is most certainly tragic, but...
it means nothing for the future. NOTHING. For all you know, Stafford comes back next year and plays the rest of his career injury free. For all you know, his shoulder heals completely and he’s right as rain for the next decade. For all you know, he comes back STRONGER because of the conditioning and rehab. Ever think of that? Nope… because you can’t. You are conditioned to find the worst of everything.
His history suggests that he’s had a shitty run of bad luck and nothing more. That’s all injuries are… wrong place, wrong time, wrong situation. It can happen to any player at any time. My bet is that he comes back smarter and stronger.
My bet is that he comes back smarter and stronger.
I hope you are right.
For all you know, he comes back STRONGER because of the conditioning and rehab. Ever think of that? Nope… because you can’t. You are conditioned to find the worst of everything.
Again, I am talking about reality, not some fantasy land where the recent past means nothing to the future. He has played in 13 of a possible 22 games to start his career and he has been injured four times. In all likelihood he is going to miss the reminder of this season. This is not about being negative. This is looking at what I have in front of me and calling it what it is.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
And by choice, you are suggesting the worst outcome.
That is negativity… is it not? I look at this and say, if they shut him down for the season, he will be 100% by next year and likely stronger. If he gets injured again, it will not be because of history, it will be because of a new, unfortunate situation…. that’s all.
The glasses through which you choose to look at this world are clouded with negativity my friend. You have posted enough comments to show how you look at things. Stafford gets hurt and you are one of the first to throw the worst case scenarios out there and preach that the sky is falling…. which it most certainly is not.
Did I write this fan post?
Nope. Do I agree with this fan post? Nope.
Do I think 1.5 seasons of injury prone QB play suggests our QB is in fact injury prone. Yup.
Would I trade him? Nope.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
I didn't say you wrote it, but you are...
one of the ones chirping the loudest about gloom & doom.
You have historical data you are using, but you are putting your own spin on the outcome… which is the cardinal sin of data analysis. C’mon… you run a business. You know this.
You plan and prepare for the things within your control and you have to leave the anomalies out of the equation. Injuries are in fact anomalies that can occur at any time to anyone. Because Stafford has had a string of unfortunate incidents makes him no more “injury prone” than anyone else. Why? Because when he is back on the field next year, he will been deemed 100% healthy. Maybe if he comes back this year he won’t… and that’s a risk, but by next year he will be 100%.
At that point, the injury again becomes an anomaly… not something someone is “prone” to have happen. It’s all circumstantial. To say he has “brittle bones” or “paper muscles” or some stupid shit like that is ridiculous.
You can't ignore reality
I get what you are saying, I understand.
I just can’t ignore his recent past.
I read your post and I see a point of view that suggests that “injury prone” is a label you can not put on any player, ever.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
Not really... no.
Injuries are accidents… just amplified by a sport that is violent. ALL of these players have been playing sports their entire lives. They are conditioned athletes. And yes… even Stafford. When they get injured, it is purely circumstantial and anyone in that similar situation would likely get hurt as well.
Now, strength and muscle mass and all that does come into play… i.e. a 350lb DT would not be as likely to break a rib. But I feel strongly that the term “injury prone” is a misnomer and in some cases a cop-out to try to more easily explain a rash of injuries… such as in Stafford’s case.
I can understand that point of view
I do not agree with it but I can understand it.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it
More true words have never been spoken with regard to the Lions.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
How long did Cowher go with Cordell stewart?
Nuff said.
by CLF on Nov 8, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
As much as I would like to believe in stafford
I think that his career is going to be filled with this sort of injuries. Shoulders are like a runningback’s knees. RBs rarely successfully come back from serious knee injuries and play like they used to. Stafford has been good, but th question now has to be how many more injuries can he suffer before he’s completely done.
The beginning of the end of the misery
by Latif Masud on Nov 8, 2010 1:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Knees
Are used constantly during a play, the shoulder is used once during a play. And Bradford would disagree that you can’t throw well after shoulder surgery.
That wasn't my point
I agree that players come back from shoulder injuries, but when he constantly keeps injuring his throwing shoulder, then we have to be concerned about how much he can play. IMO we need to draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round like the Packers did when Favre retired for the first time just as insurance policy or even trade for a young backup that has proven himself. I wouldn’t mind the Lions trading for someone like Tyler Thigpen (if he is on a team) or Troy Smith. Heck even Alex Smith can be decent in this offense.
The beginning of the end of the misery
Leon Washington seems to be doing fine...
It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.
Hell he maybe better than before he broke his leg
I never thought he’d play again
Did I mention..I love the Phonz!
You guys may have given up on 9......
But 9 hasnt given up on you. He likes playing here. The kid was really hurting yesterday and left everything I could see on the field. 9 is gonna be worth his weight in Lombardi Trophies to somebody, someday…I for one want him to be in Honolulu Blue when he does. And he will.
The intangibles connected with having a kid who wants to be The Leader...
of the Lions WHEN we win the whole damn thing are of limitless value…..2nd year and he knows this offense like he sucked out of bottle. Boys you can draft for years before you find that ability. Did anybody else see our first drive?!! That is the future….unless you panic and throw out the baby with the bathwater
by YpsilantiJeff on Nov 8, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
All I know.
Is Stafford is eventually going to get a super bowl ring. I know this deep in my gut. I would hate to have it be with some other team.
The Millen-era was known for and eventually derailed for the fact that they passed over some players who would become NFL eventual greats, in favor of consistently making bad choices. I would hate to see this franchise go the same way.
That just sent a shiver down my spine. Yeah all you Nattering Naybobs of Negativity....
chew on 9 in purple or green or dark blue throwing at the Lions back 7…..theydont seem to bother him in practice much
by YpsilantiJeff on Nov 8, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Knee jerk silliness....
My immediate reactions to the injury were 1) he probably wasn’t 100% from the original injury (which was a NASTY take down that could wreck anyone); and 2) the S&C program may not be getting these guys where they need to be to take the hits.
The Lions would be INSANE to trade Stafford, especially just to pick up another college QB and hope he doesn’t run into similar problems.
The Lions need to do 2 things here 1) get REAL honest about how badly Staff in injured and if he needs surgery, shut him down and do the surgery NOW. 2) They really need to re-evaluate their entire S&C program and make sure they are getting guys strong enough to take the hits. I know that sometimes teams are tempted to go light on a QB so they don’t “mess up” his mechanics. I have no idea if the Lions have done that but Staff needs to be in a serious workout regime in the off-season to better absorb the blows he’s going to take.
"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - Mike Tyson
your delusional if you believe schwartz on injury status
clearly he re-aggravated a previous injury. stafford was playing with a lot more pain than we are led to believe. he fell directly on his injured shoulder. did you have any doubt what happened after watching the play. i tune Schwartz out completely when it comes to injury. he and Staff took a risk and put him out there early to remain in contention for the playoffs—especially when Hill broke his arm. We beat skins/jets, we are back in the hunt. unfortunately this move backfired on us.
Um,,,read under your last post about 5 minutes a go.
Schwartz is a grade A bullshitter when it comes to injuries.
Gotta hang in there
It is so discouraging. But for his price we are going to have to ride this out. It is not like any team would give us much for him at this point anyway. Regarding Stanton, this will be his shot. I do not have lots of confidence at this point but I do not have much confidence in any third string qb. Albiet Charlie Batch (remember him) seemed to do pretty well.
I'm just trying to imagine the types of post's that we'd see if it was 8 18 28 years ago.
No really you can’t give up on Scott Mitchell he is not gonna throw another game killing pick promise! I can’t believe you all are giving up on Scott Mitchell!
Secondly saying surgery makes it all better is hysterical.
Some qb’s:
1. can take a hit, career goes on
2. can’t take a hit, career shortened
3. get hit in a freakish way which cancels out option #1
4. have such a solid front line they never have to worry about 1,2, or 3
Are you seriously comparing that stiff legged panicky jump backwards on a qb sneak....
lily livered sniveling coward to our qb who just threw, was it 6 tds in 2 games, and absolutely left every shred of himself on the turf of Ford Field…..ohh ok, I see your point
He got dinged earlier, I think on the previous drive....
the hit that took him out just finished him off.
"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - Mike Tyson
The shoulder injury that QB Matthew Stafford sustained against the Jets isn’t related to his Week 1 injury. Stafford underwent an MRI Monday. The Lions aren’t exploring surgical options for Stafford and will determine his status for Sunday’s game after consulting physicians
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
Can we at least let Jeff George play this week?
Watching Stanton fumblefuck his way down the field gives me gas.
I gotta say Footstock, I'm surprised
I never thought you were this rash. This makes absolutely no logical sense to me. Not even a little. When you invest in someone like this you have to allow time for them to either succeed or fail. 1 AND A HALF YEARS is not even close to enough time. 3 years is the minimum. And I say that goes for any player drafted above the 4th round, let alone our franchise QB.
I hope that this post is just a bit of venting, letting loose some of the anger. But I gotta agree with a comment made earlier, the extremes that this site goes though is extraordinary. One week, we are talking playoffs, next, let’s trade our QB. It’s ridiculous. I often wonder how some people have lasted as fans for as long as they have.
Anyway, here’s to next week. GO LIONS!
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on Nov 8, 2010 7:00 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I think that point wins the thread.
Stafford has not failed us. He hasn’t. Until he’s failed, he doesn’t need to be removed.
QBs that HAVE failed us have been on this team far longer.
Right to the heart of the matter Hyper
i rec you.
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
Obviously there are instances that are the exception
Maybe they did give up on him early. Still, we are talking about no.1 overall pick here.
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on Nov 8, 2010 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
ok HE...
1) I never talked playoffs
2) I am not venting
3) If we are talking about developmental time, I am all for giving players 3 years if they show growth and promise
4) You can’t coach a player not to be injury prone. He either is or he isn’t. China Doll IS…plain and simple.
5) If he isn’t the future, we can get out of the contract and at least replace the player with a player or draft picks today. If we wait til INJURY #5, we won’t get out of the contract or get trade value. We will be stuck for 5 more years.
6) That’s as unemotional as I can be. In fact, those that are screaming, “NO, THIS IS HORSE SHIT.” are the ones that are acting on emotion. If they were acting rationally, they would have to admit that it deserves consideration.
7) I posted BEFORE this game on the Jets site, that we don’t know if Staff is injury prone OR just unlucky. AND, that if he got significantly hurt again in the near future we would have to say that he is injury prone. Now, he is hurt again.
Read the MRI and weep…it is what it is. That’s all I am saying.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
by footstock on Nov 8, 2010 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So.
He injures three separate body parts and he’s unlucky. He injures a fourth separate body part and he’s now injury prone despite circumstances essentially remaining the same.
Interesting cherry picking of circumstances. I’m still leaning on unlucky.
I said....
I was unsure if he was unlucky or injury prone after 3 separate injuries.
With another injury two games later, it looks like he is injury prone.
Per Bob Wojnowski:
Is Stafford injury-prone? By definition, yes he is, so far. Sorry. That’s not a knock on his toughness. It’s factual, partly the fluky fate of football, and it certainly makes it more difficult for the Lions to count on their promising franchise quarterback.
But, I suppose he’s an idiot for suggesting it too. Jeesh, some of you guys act like the only way you can be a part of this club here at POD is if you pretend everything is A-OK all the time. It is not, and I won’t.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
by footstock on Nov 9, 2010 1:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree entirely with that assessment.
And I don’t recall calling you an idiot, either. But with this type of attitude, I’d be hard pressed to believe that if Stafford comes back from this, plays amazing for ten years, then breaks a leg and is out for a season that people won’t be like “OMG HE’S HAD FIVE SERIOUS INJURIES IN TEN YEARS, HE’S INJURY PRONE!”
Flukes are flukes. Unlucky is still unlucky. He’s just clearly more unlucky than you thought originally.
oh thats
ridiculous.
He has lost starts because of 4 different injuries in 13 games. That is epically unlucky or he is injury prone. I would not put it past our luck but the likely answer is he is injury prone.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
Unlucky.
How can you be injury prone when it’s to random spots? When it’s acknowledged that several of the injuries are either a-okay now, or would have happened to anyone?
Injury prone is grasping at straws.
Mavryk, that's what "injury prone" is...
How can you be injury prone when it’s to random spots?
Injury prone is not continuously re-aggravating a previous injury. It is getting injured often to various areas in a variety of ways.
A friend of mine in school who was very athletic was breaking bones at least once and sometimes twice a year. It didn’t matter whether it was in sports, the playground, or hanging out—-he always seemed to break something. Fingers, wrist, collarbone, leg, etc, etc. By the time he was out of school, he had somewhere around 15 breaks over like 7 years. Would you consider that “injury prone”?
Staff is on a pace to have more than 12 injuries in 7 years. Same sort of thing.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Breaking bones are one thing.
Seperations and sprains are another entirely.
“On a pace” is completely, utterly irrelevent to injuries. It’s such a terrible argument.
My arguments about Staff are fact based
and yours are based on hope.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Err.
You’re spewing opinions. Not facts.
“Injury prone is not continuously re-aggravating a previous injury. It is getting injured often to various areas in a variety of ways.” is an opinion. It is not a fact.
Injury Prone
My opinion is, based on this season and last, Stafford has a tendency to be injured. That said, unless they actually identify a medical condition there’s no reason for me to believe he will ever in his life be injured again.
I’ve had my runs of bad luck with injuries, at the time I thought it’d never stop. Although prone to injuries at the time, looking back those injuries were just coincidental.
Unless the docs come out and say he has Osteoporosis or something of that nature, I will remain hopeful that this kid will just bulk up and learn to fall.
It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.
Agreed.
Since they won’t move him, it is my hope too.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
From Dr Dale Beaverman
There is no medical definition for “injury prone” but we all know what it means. Repeated injuries usually to different parts of the body and those injuries generally tend to linger.
Do you have some supporting expert statements that define injury prone as an injury occurring to the same body part?
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Good job.
You managed to bold something while slyly choosing not to bold something that clearly disproves you.
“tend to linger.”
Which one of Staffords has lingered? His left shoulder? His knee?
I would say his right shoulder has lingered
He was not in good shape out there and Schwartz saying this is a different injury is a monstrous pile of manure.
That flat out lie is damage control because they do not want people seeing their QB as being injury prone or physically soft. They want people just like you hoping and praying against any rational thought that he is just in fact unlucky.
Seriously man, open your eyes.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
Open my eyes to what?
I come to the argument with an open mind, and I’ve seen nothing to me that shows he’s injury prone. A couple unlucky hits to a guy who is very tough.
His shoulder may be weakening, but it’s nothing surgery can’t fix.
He gets hurt too often and too fast...
to really find out if they linger. lol.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
OK, you won me over Mavryk
Stafford is NOT injury prone. That’s awesome.
Thanks for the peace of mind. It will be great going to bed tonight and knowing that we can count on our franchise QB to be there for us, on the gridiron, when we need him.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Joshun,,,,What are you trying to achieve with the pounding of this topic?
I’m starting not to get it.
The knee jerk bashing from week to week with the level of bitching based on a win or a loss isn’t cool. Okay, so he’s injury prone, so WTF? Okay what’s your suggestion to do something about it?
You can’t do a thing about Stafford’s injuries, but just harping on them isn’t going to change them, and as far as Schwartz goes, give it to him both barrels at the end of the season if he fucks up the rest of the way. If they start playing stupid, I’ll be doing it also, but I think he’s falling on his sword for others in the past game.
I do know this, I see young players getting better and playing smarter, and that’s coaching.
The difference is that he doesn't seem to be suggesting that we replace him...
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on Nov 9, 2010 6:49 AM EST up reply actions
Still doesn't make any sense to me. He is still developing, regardless of injuries...
I think he’s earned our time and patience. If Kevin Smith, Pettigrew or CJ were to get injured again should we consider replacing them? No, I don’t think so. People do overcome chronic injuries. I know it’s not the same but a young superstar from my Tigers had multiple knee and shoulder injuries in his first 4 years. Half the season missed and things like that. He hasn’t missed a game in over 2 years since. Players can overcome injuries much easier than they can overcome a lack of talent, and Stafford doesn’t lack in that. This whole argument is irrelevant anyway since the coaching staff would NEVER do it.
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on Nov 9, 2010 6:46 AM EST up reply actions
Wasn't Smith's injuries the reason
the Lions drafted Best? Wasn’t Grew’s injury the reason the Lions traded for Scheffler? Wasn’t Stafford’s injuries the reason the Lions got Hill?
I promise you that MM & Schwartz' eyes are not closed to this situation
I promise you that they have already had the chat, “What if we can never keep him on the field consistently. What will our plan B be?”
They cannot be as short sighted as loyal fans are and just say, “I am sure everything will work out”.
They are too smart for that, and their future livelihood’s depend on being proactive.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Yeah, but they are not getting rid of them...
Contingency plans are good, trading promising young players is bad…
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on Nov 10, 2010 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
It seems like a moot point
at this time. Stafford is out most likely for the year. No other team will touch him, let alone give anything of value until he is ready to play. Let him take the rest of the year adn re-evaluate next year. The problem for Lions’ fans is losing has gotten old. Does anyone really think Stanton will perform well against the Bills? Or that he can be the future?
One thing is for certain, the O-line needs a stuid drafted next year. A real anchor to build the line around.
The problem with the Stud OL approach is...
That none of them seem to be panning out over the last couple of years. Oher…yes.
Jason Smith, Andre Smith, Russell Okung….no. How do we win in this “crap” shoot?
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Personally
O-Line is the one are I prefer to trade for than draft. Exceptions to that, is every once in a while there is a great one. The only two O-Lineman I would have ever drafted that I can recall were Jake Long and Orlando Pace. I feel there are too many solid veterans to be traded for i.e. Sims. I don’t like rookie o-line starters, I’d much prefer they get a year or two of solid practice and occasional game substitutions.
It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.
Both Smiths start
Williams starts. Davis starts. Munroe starts. I would agree I have resevations about Andre, but that showed itself at the combine. I would not mind have any of the other lineman I named. I think Okung problems have to do with a high ankle sprain at the moment, although Williams being picked ahead of him set off an alarm for me.
I argued with the Walter guys about Suh over Okung. I think I was right!
I wouldn't want either Smith as my left tackle today
Or Okung or williams. Monroe…he was hurt most of last year so i don’t know.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Monroe played 15 games last year
Williams usually goes solo, which is great for a rookie (no double team for help). J. Smith had troubles last year, but has been solid this year, except for a concussion.
I seem to remember the Lions got stiffed when they signed a big-time FA for the O-line…a guy named Woody.
yes.
i think the posters read too much media. a vitriolic media who are forced to come up with stories. i could almost put blame on them and these posters who eat the poop they read everyday.
so they take Schwartz/players at their word when it suits them to generate stories. here they make a story out of a guy that probably has played hurt and re-injured his shoulder. new, unrelated injury my ass. never take a Schwartz comment on injury (or player) on face value.
if i were Schwartz, i would have advised Staff to disclose himself as 100% so as to take the target off his head. of course Staff heard the media going on and on about him being “injury-prone” and probably rushed him to play with consider pain. then he lands on his injured shoulder. we gambled and lost. gutsy move by both Schwartz and Staff since we might have had a shot at the playoffs if we Skins/Jets—especially knowing we’d have to put Drew out there.
now imagine spraining your ankle or knee, then coming back and re-turning your ankle, or folding your knee the wrong way. you are going to be in SERIOUS pain, you are going to re-aggravate the injury, and the healing process is going to take a very long time. i said this below but i wouldn’t be surprised if they shut him down for the year and get him into surgery after his swelling goes down. i hope i’m wrong. i could put the blame on media and fans who imply that Stafford is a wimp or something. actually i am just going to give credit to Schwartz and Staff for taking a risk to keep our team in the hunt for the playoffs.
+1...well said
No way was Stafford 100%. He was grimacing last week with that shoulder. I believe ZERO when it comes to Schwartz and his talking about injuries.
isnt Matt Stafford like 22 yrs old?
Sure he’s missed half his 2 years but ..he has 12-15 NFL yrs left.He has way too much talent to give up on him.I’m guessing Every NFL team would give Matt a chance to over come these injuries.
Lions Super Bowl 2012
by ralphgoblue on Nov 8, 2010 8:13 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
No, he's 38
Started college when he was 35.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
Well, well....
Ralphie, my friend… this is the most common sense comment you’ve ever given. This is it, right here. Ralphie nailed the whole shebang in three sentences.
one, Its not 1/2 his games
He has only played in 13 games. If he manages to come back this season and play 3 more games he will have played have his possible games.
13 games 4 major injuries.
I don’t care how old you are, that is damning.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
there is a reason why White decided to give baseball a try
because he is not an NFL quarterback.
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
Err.
Just because someone would give baseball a try doesn’t mean they’re not an NFL QB.
John Elway almost played minor league when he found out he was drafted by the Colts (who traded him to Denver)
yes I know that
but White was not cutting as a QB. Miami wanted to switch him to a WR. He refused. And gave baseball a shot. Apparently, no other teams wanted a 6’0 190lb running QB that missed the last 3 games of the season. Because he got jacked up in Pittsburgh while running out of the pocket.
R.I.P. Captain Hook. You will be missed. George Lee "Sparky" Anderson (1934-2010)
Fair enough.
I dunno why he wouldn’t wanna be a backup though. I’d rather play for the NFL than MLB any day of the week.
I thought the world of Pat White
until I met him in person. If he is 6 foot he is barely that. If he wighs 190 it is with all his equipment on. The man is tiny, especially for a pro quaterback. After his injury last year, he made the right decision.
Can't believe what I am reading
Getting rid of Stafford…are you guys kidding me??? You are speaking of everything that is wrong with this organization, change, change, change…..change kills you. The minute we have a little bit of adversity to overcome all I hear is fire the coach, trade Stafford while he has value. Does everyone realize how hard it is to find a good coach and a franchise quarterback in this league. If you look at all the successful teams they all have one thing in common…consistency and patience. This is something that has lacked in this franchise…..forever
Calling Schwartz a good coach at this point is a joke. He is not a bad coach but he has not done anything to suggest he is a good coach.
Calling Stafford a franchise QB at this point is a joke. In order to become a “franchise QB” you actually have to be out there with your guys more than on the sideline holding a clipboard. The only thing he has done that suggests he is a franchise QB is take big fat checks weekly.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
yeah we do
smart ass replies to genuine opinions that you do not agree with. That is the joke.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
Okay... lol
So it’s okay for you to poo-poo someone’s opinion by calling it “a joke” (which is what you did) but I can’t do the same? And I was referring to this whole cockamamie thread… not you as a person being the joke. Don’t be such a hypocrite, Joshsun.
touche, I apologise.
Let me rephrase….
Suggesting Schwartz is a good coach is in my opinion flawed. He has not done anything that sets him apart from other average coaches.
Suggesting Stafford is a franchise QB is in my opinion flawed. You have to be out there playing consistently with your team and winning to be a franchise QB.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
by joshsun on Nov 9, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I point stuff like that out when people are IMHO
over exaggerating what he have and using that as an excuse to dismiss the OPs opinion.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
From what I have seen
Not exactly sure what exaggeration you are speaking of, there is 20 other teams that would sacrifice their first born to be in the position we are in. Sorry to say franchise quarterbacks are not a dime a dozen and extremely difficult to find, you will notice our track record is not exactly stunning. Finally we have a QB that has endless talent and a coach that has a level head on his shoulders; I am finally looking at this thing with a cup half full attitude. We don’t have to win right now, we are one – two years away from being a playoff contender and two of our major pieces are growing into their roles. Pretty positive I would say….
I am not going to rehash every thing I already said
but I will say this. I do not agree with most of what you said. Read my posts above for the reason.
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
This is really, in a nutshell, what I was trying to get across in the original post
Suggesting Schwartz is a good coach is in my opinion flawed. He has not done anything that sets him apart from other average coaches.
Suggesting Stafford is a franchise QB is in my opinion flawed. You have to be out there playing consistently with your team and winning to be a franchise QB.
Josh just said it better.
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
OMG Josh, I think I love you!
I know I said previously that I wouldn’t reply to your posts, but here, you had me at hello.
;-)
It was 3rd & 7; Delhomme dropped to pass
"Man, I hope, I don't get knocked on my ass"
He felt twisting and clawing, "When will it stop?"
Then SUH ripped his head off, like a bottle of pop!!
Yeah, I'm a Lions fan
lol, welcome back bro
DrewsLions was right and I was wrong. Stafford did in fact post a QB rating better than 89.7, he put up a 90.2 rating. I have not been happy about being wrong in so long!
Agreed
How many head coaches did we have in that time span, how many offensive coordinators did we have, defensive coordinators, how many times did we switch directions in philosophies….I agree getting rid of Millen was a blessing, we had the wrong guy…this case is different we have all the pieces, now we just have to be patient
nonsense
the media love to jump on this and make a story out of Stafford. especially because uninformed fans jump at the gun to direct blame at someone for our failures.
it is completely unfair in my opinion.
the truth is, Stafford took 2 very serious shots in the intial injuries to each his shoulders. shots that probably would have lead to serious injuries to almost any QB. we must consider the fact that he has very little, if any, history of shoulder injuries from his collegiate career. the media raucous put pressure on him to come back and play hurt as he did this week and last. he falls and lands directly on his injured shoulder and re-aggravates the SAME injury. of course, we aren’t going to be televising the fact for all opposing teams that our QB is still vulnerable as he isn’t completely healed. of course he is going to say 100% and all the cliches about being fine so he doesn’t have a big red X on his chest. we gambled and lost by putting him out there.
this nonsense that the previous injury has nothing to do with this is just foolish. OF COURSE THIS IS RELATED TO THE PREVIOUS INJURY. do not believe a word Schwartz says about injuries. i wouldn’t be surprised if Stafford is under the knife as we speak.

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