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With the 2nd pick in the draft the Detroit Lions select ... ? (Part 2)



Pride of Detroit, I thank you for your votes and comments in Part 1 and helping me out.  The votes are in, and the choice is nothing short of crystal clear, you want Suh!  He was the runaway choice of Lions fans, and an excellent choise he is, but the NFL draft, like life, is often full of surprises.

 

That said, I'd like a bit of discussion and a vote on a "backup choice" just in case Ndamukong Suh is taken first overall on our Arrowhead Pride Mock Draft.  By all accounts, the St Louis Rams are looking at Bradford, and with good reason.  But they might surprise everyone and tap Suh instead.  So, what are the options if Suh is gone?  Let's jump over and take a look ...

Star-divide

From yesterday's post, poll and discussion, the contingency plan if Suh is gone really seems to come down to two choices: Eric Berry or Russell Okung. Offensive Tackle or Safety. Both fill a need. Both could be argued for as BPA. So, which would you prefer, Lions fans? Berry or Okung? Okung or Berry? Monster on the OLine or Beast in the Backfield? Next week I'll be posting our draft updates as they come in, with an eye on the Lions 2nd Round choice, and that looks to be wide open as well, but for now, the choices are clear, so let the discussion begin. And remember that you, Lions fans and Pride of Detroit, are AWESOME!

Poll
If Suh is gone in the first round, which player do you want as the Lions first round pick?
Berry
84 votes
Okung
77 votes

161 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.

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It's a vote for Okung

As much as I truly want to see Berry, Backus is getting up there in age and now would be a smart time to get his replacement for down the road. With the way our FO has been bringing in talent for a change. We are not going to have too many more chances to get the Elite players coming out of collage. I still want Berry or Suh but the smarter money is on Okung. Then in the second round I can see us going after 1 of 3 positions CB, DT, or even Guard if BPA is one of those positions.But thats if ST.Louis takes KONG and I really don’t see them taking a 3rd DT in the first round, Talk about being run outta town I could see their GM being BBQ’d if he did that.

How many lumps you want Doc?

by davis0169 on Mar 10, 2010 12:30 PM EST reply actions  

davis ... great comments, thank you!

comments like yours are helpful not just for 1st round, but for 2nd as well … and I do agree that Rams will likely take Bradford and Lions nab Suh … but one never knows, and as I know the guy who’s doing the Rams pick for Arrowhead pride, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he took Suh …

then again, I wouldn’t be overly shocked if he took Berry …

thanks again for your comments! we’ll see how votes shake out here …

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Berry is the player of greater need

Berry is one of the most athletically gifted players to come out in a while. As much as Suh has been labeled as the best DT in years, Berry is the best safety since Ed Reed to come out. A safety tandem of Delmas and Berry would be terrific for years to come, and would make our mediocre corners look terrific.

Okung is a good player but he’s no Joe Thomas or Jake Long. He’s not worthy of the 2nd overall pick. There are also a great number of LG’s available later in the draft who we could take to fill the biggest hole in our line.

by jkl52588 on Mar 10, 2010 12:36 PM EST reply actions  

jk, thanks for the comments

hard to argue with, as Berry sure looks like an “impact player” …. remember though that Okung is LT, not LG (LT is the “premier position” on the OLine, the number one wall against sacking the QB) … but you feel strongly about berry, and I do understand your point

thanks again!

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

not a LG

I know Okung is an LT not an LG. I was just saying that the position of need for the lions on the O-line is LG not LT, so Okung wouldn’t be the pick for me. We’d be better off taking a better Lg late in the draft than Okung at #2 as an LT which we don’t need as Backus is perfectly servicable. Maybe his problem is that he has played next to close to 20 different LG’s in his time here in detroit and not that he’s a bad player.

by jkl52588 on Mar 10, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

gotcha! thanks for the clarification ... !

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Okung is a good player but he’s no Joe Thomas or Jake Long. He’s not worthy of the 2nd overall pick. There are also a great number of LG’s available later in the draft who we could take to fill the biggest hole in our line.

First of all, Okung is a LT. Secondly, Jake Long is a DE. And thirdly Joe Thomas didn’t have the talent of SUH, BERRY or McCoy to cloud his greatness.

….Jake Long…..lol….

by CLF on Mar 10, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

CLF

I think you have the wrong LONG in your post. I’m sure JKL is refering to Long the LT in Miami not the Long that is Howies kid who plays for the Rams.

How many lumps you want Doc?

by davis0169 on Mar 10, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

you’re thinking CHRIS Long DE for the Rams. JAKE Long is the LT for the Phins lol

by JazzyBBP on Mar 10, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

lmao CLF

How many lumps you want Doc?

by davis0169 on Mar 10, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...

by n4ry4 on Mar 10, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

love it

hahaha

The best there is, The best there was, and the best there ever will be - Bret the Hitman hart

by The Profiler on Mar 10, 2010 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

CLF

Yes the Jake Long of MICHIGAN fame…smooth there CLF

by jkl52588 on Mar 10, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Jake Long...

the LT from Michigan who plays for Miami is Howie Longs son.

by lions_sucker on Mar 10, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

What?

Jake Long is Howies kid???? How come I never saw him at the Big house? Or are you being a funny guy?

How many lumps you want Doc?

by davis0169 on Mar 10, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey...

I threw myself off a building… what more do you want??? ….lol

by CLF on Mar 11, 2010 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm undecided

Okung, because

The difference in pass protection you are likely to get between the top Left Tackle (Okung) and whoever is left later in the draft is likely to be larger than the difference in defense you are likely to get between the top Safety (Berry) and whoever is left later in the draft.

Also, who pays a safety $70 million with #30 million+ guaranteed? We would, if we took Berry. Those aren’t elite safety numbers, they’re elite Left Tackle numbers. Overpaying for a safety, even a very good one, would hurt our ability to fill other holes with great players once we’re operating under a salary cap again.

Or

Berry, because

he is an awesome football player, he perfectly fits what Schwartz wants to do on defense, and you just don’t pass up these once-in-a-decade guys, even though we could probably get a very good safety in the second round (like we did with Louis Delmas last year). Even though he’s a safety, the best Safety in a decade is worth more money that the best Left Tackle in a mediocre Left Tackle draft class.

Also, LG is a much bigger immediate need than LT. We’d be better off picking a guard in round 3 or 4, so we can draft Berry, than taking Okung and asking Backus to play LG.

I don’t know, I’m torn. I’ll pick Okung. I really want our brightest players on offense, Stafford and Calvin, to be able to do what they do best, and that means we need to protect the QB from Julius Peppers, Jared Allen, and Clay Matthews twice a year.

I don’t like missing out on Berry, but given the premiums teams place on tackles, I wonder if, even if Berry carries a higher BPA grade, how much greater is the difference in value between Berry and the next best safeties we could get in rounds 2-3 and the difference in value between Okung and the next best Left Tackle, or Guard, we could get in rounds 2-3.

Screw it, BPA, Berry. What am I thinking, of course BPA!

Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...

by n4ry4 on Mar 10, 2010 12:48 PM EST reply actions  

n4 ... before I read thru your post I was grinning ... love the comment and explanations ...

… and yeah, I feel the same way … as a Chiefs fan, most likely both Okung and/or Berry will fall to us at the #5 pick … both have lots of upside, both have talent … but like anything else, if you get one then you can’t get the other …

I absolutely agree with the following:

The difference in pass protection you are likely to get between the top Left Tackle (Okung) and whoever is left later in the draft is likely to be larger than the difference in defense you are likely to get between the top Safety (Berry) and whoever is left later in the draft

but then, too …

[Berry] is an awesome football player, he perfectly fits what Schwartz wants to do on defense, and you just don’t pass up these once-in-a-decade guys

I know, huh … not an easy choice to make!

thanks again for some great thoughts!

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Very well-thought out... as usual

The contract for Berry at #2 will be a bitter pill for the front office to swallow, so I just hope that Suh is there so they can side-step that issue. But I did vote for Berry following the same basic thought path as you, n4ry4. Okung probably should be the pick from a value perspective, but I believe that Berry is the better player – even though his overall impact versus contract might be lesser than Okung’s.

If Mayhew truly believes that Berry is better than Okung and McCoy, I think he has the balls to take him. Me personally, I still think that Suh is a better player than Berry. If Suh is there, I think it should be an easy decision on a number of levels. If Suh is gone, it gets to be a much tougher decision.

by DrewsLions on Mar 10, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

yup ... much tougher

and as the Lions GM for two whole rounds of pretend, I want to do my very best for you guys …

that’s why I’m here, if Suh is gone YOU guys make the call, YOU guys make the wrong decision {{grinning}} … I’m just the messenger

real life scenario? either one would be a good choice …

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Berry

As much as I’d love to help keep Stafford on his feet, you just can’t pass up an Elite level Safety like Berry (unless Suh’s there).

I voted for Berry but was really surprised at how close the votes are. Reading from comments all throughout this board, the decision was either Suh or Berry but I’m surprised theirs so many supporters of Okung.

Nothing against the offensive tackle but I still see them going the BPA approach and Berry fits that. He, along with Delmas, will create the best young safety tandem this league has seen in a long time. The best part about pairing the two is you can take chances by moving one of them up inside the box to help stop the run or use him as a decoy and pick off underneath routes. Unlike last year when Delmas couldn’t be utilized to his full potential because of the lack of talent at either corner sides, the push up front, and his musical chairs of safeties playing next to him.

This move should allow the Lions some flexibility and allow Berry to play all over the field not just Safety. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see him play some linebacker in a 3 front 3-4 package seeing how effective of a tackler he is. The only knock I see on his game is, like Delmas, he can go for the highlight hit instead of the traditional wrap up tackle.

The pick has to be Berry with Suh gone.

www.prosportsdraft.webs.com

by Calvin21 on Mar 10, 2010 2:06 PM EST reply actions  

Me and you gotta

Quit flip flopping like fish out of water. I think it’s safe to say we would all love to see Suh/Berry/Okung as our first pick. Vanman I think McCoy is an after thought nowwa days, at least here at the POD. Not saying that our FO does not have him rated high but not as high as the other 3 that are getting all of our thoughts and rants.

How many lumps you want Doc?

by davis0169 on Mar 10, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Calvin ... good commentary and thank you

either would be a good choice … IMNSHO a top-notch LT (Okung) is harder to find than top-notch DB (Berry) and then too, what’s more important than the health of the QB?

now if the LT you have is that good, and you have a STRONG Oline all the way across … Berry is a no-brainer (if Suh is gone) … but if there’s a hole (or upcoming) at LT or LG or RT … then OLine becomes a much more major concern … and I don’t know a thing about the state of your OLine

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

O-line

At the o-line, we’re kind of stuck in a perpetual limbo of mediocrity. Jeff Backus and Dominic Raiola are average at best and have starting spots locked up. Stephen Peterman is a below average right guard, but easily our best guard. Gosder Cherilus is still young and shows flashes at times, but is a huge liability in pass protection at other times. There’s a huge, gaping hole at left guard, and it’s anybody’s guess who will start there next season. In terms of depth, we have Jon Jansen.

by Kalzilla on Mar 10, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks for the comments ... nice to get the inside scoop from you guys

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Honestly

I still think I’d rather have McCoy over those 2. I like Berry and wouldn’t be upset with the pick. I’m just a build from the trenches philosophy kinda guy. Not that Berry would be the wrong pick though. From all accounts he’s a special player and thats what we need with a pick that high. My preference would fall to McCoy though. I think he is a special player too and in a draft w/o Suh, he’d be the hands down best d-lineman in the draft. And I don’t think Okung is that player.

by vanman on Mar 10, 2010 2:09 PM EST reply actions  

vanman, thank you and well said ...

I also believe you build from the inside out … in other words, the lines and trenches first … McCoy would be a good pick just about any team, including the Lions

I didn’t include him only as nobody here yesterday even mentioned him … but I agree, he’d be a good addition to any DLine

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I think McCoy becomes an afterthought

for a lot of guys. The ones that want a DT, say Suh. The guys who don’t want Berry or Okung over Suh, are obviously not even considering McCoy. I don’t think any of these picks are bad though. My preference would be Suh, McCoy, Berry, Okung in that order.

by vanman on Mar 10, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks vanman ... all good players IMNSHO

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Berry

1 Guy does not make a team, this guy on the other hand improves the team the most !!

by Joey-P on Mar 10, 2010 2:26 PM EST reply actions  

ty Joey ... well said

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Berry

could be a huge play maker on defense. Okung isn’t the best LT to come along lately.

The best there is, The best there was, and the best there ever will be - Bret the Hitman hart

by The Profiler on Mar 10, 2010 3:51 PM EST reply actions  

ty Profiler ... point taken

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks GT ... duly noted

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

When will we pick up a Guard?

We know that Detroit needs a guard… there are some out there that could fit. Are we looking at them? If we pick up a guard from free agency, then I’ll be thinking Defense again. Yet we’ve picked up DLine players, secondary and even a receiver.
As for Suh… when we picked up Corey Williams with the last year of a 38.6million salary and KVB with 26 million. We probably aren’t going to drop anymore big money on the DLine.
Of course we could Get Berry and then draft a Guard…

by coolbreeze42 on Mar 10, 2010 4:23 PM EST reply actions  

FA or 2nd/3rd round would be my guess ... inside OL are usually lower down the "value" list

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

McCoy

Why is he not an option?

http://cmufootball.blogspot.com/

by CapitolLions on Mar 10, 2010 5:35 PM EST reply actions  

CapitolLions ... I did have McCoy as one of the options in yesterday's post

http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2010/3/9/1365104/with-the-2nd-pick-in-the-draft-the

and out of 235 votes, McCoy got like 4 or 5 votes … the clear winner was Suh, so I took the next two obvious choices … pretty much by acclaim from yesterday’s poll … for today as “alternate if Suh is gone”

so far Berry is ahead, but only slightly …

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

he's an option, Caitol ... thanks for the input, much appreciated

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 5:39 PM EST reply actions  

Okung Band Wagonners

I can dearly understand wanting to draft him to protect Staffinfection. But what good is drafting him when our Defence can’t get off the field to begin with. Our defence has been at the bottom of the league for about a decade and this is our chance to get out of that predicument. Suh and Berry have to be the first pick reguardless. Either guy gives us instant credibility on that side of the ball after the other signings this FA. Arn’t you guys sick and tired of seeing every horible QB come play the lions and have HOF stats against us. It has to be fixed this year.

How many lumps you want Doc?

by davis0169 on Mar 10, 2010 6:14 PM EST reply actions  

but

last year we also had the worst D-line in the league. Now, with KVB and C-Will we should actually be able to generate some pressure on the QB. It’s easy for Brady Quinn to look like Tom Brady when your defense has absolutely no hope of getting to him.

Likewise it’s easy for Matthew Stafford to look like David Carr when he’s got D-linemen and linebacker’s all over him, something I saw far too many times last year. Winning begins with building a strong line, on BOTH sides of the ball, and the play of the D-line or O-line has an enormous impact on the rest of the Defense/Offense. If I’m Mayhew, I’m taking Okung over berry at no. 2.

by motown313 on Mar 10, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

motown, good arguments for Okung, thanks for the comments

you guys are all helping to make this decison easy … NOT … Suh is obvious … the voting on “backup” is so close … I might have to flip a coin if it comes to that

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

davis, you and I are in agreement here

If Berry is going to truly be elite-which I think he is-our secondary is going to put a stop to every QB that we play posting 150+ passer ratings. Think of how different Baltimore and Pittsburgh’s defenses were while Reed and Polamalu were hurt. They weren’t even close to being as scary, because having that elite safety changes the whole game.
The line is serviceable, probably a C even with a LG addition, but the secondary is at an E. Not only is Berry BPA (Suh=1, Berry =1a), he fits a need too.

by TX Lion on Mar 22, 2010 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, and i hope the Lions FO sees it that way as well

Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!

by KDawg on Mar 22, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Suh or Berry, thats who I figure.

 Mc Coy is consistent, but I believe we have addressed the DT-DE through FA . I wouldnt pass on Suh, but Berry would give us the safety tandum that would put fear in WR’s. the way Carrier used too.

Back off, big man. It may work with the chicks. Not me.

by trimpimp on Mar 10, 2010 6:25 PM EST reply actions  

trim, thanks for the comments

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Berry for me is the BPA

If Suh is gone that is. Berry provides us with a seemingly dominent Safety tandem, something that I think cannot be undervalued in today’s passing game. However, in saying that, we need to protect our QB. Can Backus do it? Maybe, he’s not terrible. But, he is getting older and we will eventually need to get a replacement, and it’s not like Stafford is well protected now.

It’s a tough decision, but I think Schwartz & Mayhew’s BPA strategy might come though in the end, so Berry is the favourite.

The Bringers of Hope: Stafford - Delmas - C. Johnson - Pettigrew - Levy - Hill - Schwartz
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.

by Hyperion Ecta on Mar 10, 2010 7:41 PM EST reply actions  

nice comment ... thank you!

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 10, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

This just in:

The Bears are still signing everyone! No just kidding guys but here is a strong possible trade waiting to happen. Clev has already dished off one QB and are actively trying to get rid of Brady (BUST) Quinn. I can’t see Senica Wallace as a #1 QB for the Browns so, knowing Holmgrem like we all do, we know he is going to want to get a QB in this draft. The Browns sit at the #7 spot, they have to jump in front of the Skins in order to get 1 of 2 QB’s most likely (please don’t fuck us here ST.Louis) So who do we want at the #7 spot and what else do we think we can get for our #2. Can anyone say Sign and trade? I could see us trading with the Browns for their first and possibly a third, even if we had to give up a later draft pick would you guys be down for that????

How many lumps you want Doc?

by davis0169 on Mar 10, 2010 11:35 PM EST reply actions  

hey davis, just off to sleepland here ... that sounds like a trade I'd love to make happen if I could

would prefer 1st and 2nd but would take 1st and 3rd in a heartbeat … nice year for an extra pick in 3rd round

hope all’s well with you, my friend!

"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
Whitlock Rocks!
hi, Mo!
5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Mar 11, 2010 1:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Nice

The Browns have multiple picks in the third round so they can be an attractive partner to trade with.

www.prosportsdraft.webs.com

by Calvin21 on Mar 11, 2010 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

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