Top 5 DT's in 2010 NFL Draft
by TheOriginalVoice on Mar 10, 2010 9:32 PM EST
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1. Ndamakong Suh.
2. Dan Williams
3. Brian Price
4. Jared Odrick
5. Gerald Mccoy
Ndamakong Suh is far and away the best defensive player in the draft, much less defensive tackle. I'm going to some up his great attributes with some numbers. 89 tackes. 12 sacks.
How on earth do you register 89 tackles from the DT position in a competitive conference?? How are you involved in THAT many plays? That's just unheard of. Obviously there's talent there, but those numbers also say A. You have a motor that never stops. B. You have great stamina. A trait that is often overlooked. I'm going to predict that Ndamakong will average at least 5 sacks per year for his career. To put that in perspective, Albert Haynesworth entering his 10th year has 28 career sacks.
I'm going to skip analysis for 2-4 for now and get to the burning question...Why the hell do you have Mccoy so low??
Fact. Defensive Tackles bust more than Qbs. Why? I'm not 100% sure. But I do know that its easy to dominate in college when you are one of the strongest guys on the feild. You don't have to have great technique or great leverage, But in the pros everybody is strong and everybody is good. And once again Mccoy does not do ANYTHING great. He's not Sapp quick. He's not overly strong. He doesn't form tackle as well as he could. So with that, tell me how he's going to dominate at the NEXT level? So what do teams like? They like his passion. He looks mean. And he loves the game. That's all fine and dandy. But you don't tackle people in the NFL on emotion. You have to either be to the ball 1st, or have great leverage. Based on nothing more than his physical attributes...I'm not betting on Mccoy to do either.
Voice
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Keep the hate flowing. LOL
McCoy does not overpower his opponents. He succeeds on quickness and his technique. Your description of a player who is going to bust seems to refer to Suh more than anyone else on your list.
I am wondering what makes so many people experts on what it takes to be a great DT to be able to overrule nearly every expert and NFL scout? Just asking.
you can be productive
without elite strength. do you dissagree that bigger stronger defensive tackles fit our defensive scheme better? is my question.
I have a 9" personality
by Waitingfortheroar on Mar 11, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
If you are comparing the two....Bigger....
IS arguable. 10-12lbs…. in the offseason.
Stronger…. I’ll wait till he lifts at the pro day.
And get this… I’d pick Suh before McCoy and I believe that’s who the Lions go with…. I am of the opinion that McCoy is a lot closer and has the almost same potential as Suh.
Nobody will disagree with your question.
I am wondering who coined these so-called experts as experts...
Because I would argue to be an expert in anything, you have to have overwhelming knowledge AND success in said subject. Being that half of the 1st round busts every year, I’m going to say these “experts” are no better than any fantasy football manager or “couch” scout.
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry, Kyle Wilson and Chris Houston - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 11, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
question
I don’t mean to sound accusatory, but honestly, were you watching games with these players? Or is this based on stats? I know McCoy’s stats aren’t great, but I saw two and a half full OU games this year and it was clear that he was the most dominant player on the field, mostly due to his quickness and technique. I agree that he rarely overpowered people, but he was dynamic and the pocket was constantly pressured. I saw one full UCLA game and thought that Price was good, but not as noteworthy. I haven’t seen any of Odrick or Williams so I can’t comment.
I guess I’m still new on here but I’m well known across boards…and whether you agree or not – people know I watch a lot of tape. As a former player I will never judge a player unless I’ve seen him play multiple times. Plus I have every combine workout, all star games, senior bowl etc on discs. The key word in your statement was “in college” This is the mistake most people make when judging players. He was great in college so hell be great in the pros. If that’s the case Tim Tebow would be the #1 pick. So why isn’t he?
I gave my reasons why I think Mccoy won’t dominate at the next level. He is not SPECIAL in any one thing. With his limited strength he won’t be able to move people around in the NFL. He has an above average burst. And he’s not the greatest tackler I’ve ever seen. He’s a good rotational guy in the NFL and depending on the system he’s a starter. For example he would get crushed in a 3-4 NT position. Suh otoh can play any position on the line including DE AND HE WILL EXCELL. That’s the difference.
by TheOriginalVoice on Mar 11, 2010 12:18 AM EST reply actions
I really think McCoy is best suited for a 3-4 DE.
by toled0lions on Mar 11, 2010 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
Rather than a 4-3 DT or a 3-4 NT.
I think if you put him in a 3-4 DE position he could be a special player. Using his explosiveness and quickness with outside leverage on Guards and against Tackles. But I just don’t think he is suited to play on the inside against NFL Guards and Centers.
by toled0lions on Mar 11, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
Wow, your experiences allow you to see into the future?
Why is it that every other NFL Scout site/Draft Guru disagrees with you? They continually rave about his burst off the snap and his technique in keeping blockers away from him, and his ability to read and react. They point to those attributes in projecting him to be a better Pro than Suh. I am not willing to go that far because I believe that productivity in college is generally an indicator of future success. Suh is the one who has had amazing stats IN COLLEGE. He has used his strength advantage to push aside inferior blockers. I don’t see that happening as often in the pros. Do you?
If so many experts are right, then how come the bust rate for players is so high? With DT HAVING THE HIGHEST BUST RATE. How come undrafted guys have almost as good a chance making a team as a 3rd rounder? So many experts, so many “super sites” and yet still so many missed players. Could it be these guys aren’t putting in as much work as you think? So your logic is, think like everybody else and you’ll probably get it right. Yeah…good luck with that.
by TheOriginalVoice on Mar 11, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
What makes you think you can predict correctly when they cannot?
The Bringers of Hope: Stafford - Delmas - C. Johnson - Pettigrew - Levy - Hill - Schwartz
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
by Hyperion Ecta on Mar 11, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
I think Suh is somewhat better than McCoy, but I don't get how McCoy still isn't a "very good" DT prospect worthy of an upper-first round pick
Like NorthLeft was alluding to, where is the dissimilarity in the logic of these two statements that would indicate Suh as significantly more pro potential than McCoy, because it sounds like this is the logic behind a lot of the anti-McCoy sentiments:
1. Suh is extremely strong compared to college competition, but in the NFL, everybody is strong, and NFL Guards have the technique to neutralize DT’s with strength.
2. McCoy is very quick compared to college competition, but in the NFL, everybody is quick, and NFL Guards have the technique to neutralize DT’s with quickness.
Therefore, Suh will be awesome in the NFL and McCoy probably won’t (huh?).
Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...
Its not that simple. Suh is better for many reasons which I described. Better leverage. Better tackler. More strength. All of that together means something. There are many quick dts in the NFL who aren’t strong enough. Most every d linemen that busts have one thing in common…they all don’t get enough leverage/push off the line.
by TheOriginalVoice on Mar 11, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
N.Suh isnt "far and away" the best defensive player
Suh is very good and i think he will be an all-pro NFL player,but to say hes far and away the best defensive player,is crazy..Eric Berry could be the “best” player in the draft,Gerald McCoy is 50/50 with Suh(based on experts) I think Rolando McClain of Alabama was the best defensive player in college football last yr.He wont be drafted til 12-18 pick,because teams have other needs (LTs,QBs,DTs etc) but McClain takes a back seat to no one.
I think Suh would have a better chance at being the “bust” over McCoy.. McCoy is quicker off the ball,gets deeper into the back field,he makes QBs roll out EVERY passing play,Suh is more of a MAULER,try to over power you-type guy..That might not be so easy vs NFL guards that weight 330-360 LBS (college Guards are 265-290) with that said I DO WANT SUH,or McCoy as the pick we need em
What about run situations?
Suh excels in that area where as McCoy is almost a pure pass rusher on the inside. Another thing is those 330 lbs. NFL Guards a a hell of a lot quicker than those college 280 lbs. guys. Maybe not all but most of them are. That’s why they are NFL starters.
by toled0lions on Mar 11, 2010 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
exactly
And at the end of thee day DTs are paid to stop the run. They are not paid to sack the qb. I don’t know this for a fact but off the top of my head Jason Hunter probably had more sacks than Haynesworth last year. There are at least 30 guys in the league right now with more career sacks than Albert. So why is he the highest paid player? A “disruptive” DT = Corey Redding
And how’d that turn out?
by TheOriginalVoice on Mar 11, 2010 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
Cory Redding? Please you are embarrassing yourself.
Redding had a good season or two for one reason only……Shaun Rogers. Do not compare Redding to McCoy. How about Kevin Williams and McCoy?
Our D Line problem is a total lack of inside pressure. Grady and Sammie Lee were pretty stout against the run they just could not get any inside push.
In fact that is what seperates the excellent highly paid DTs from the average ones….the ability to collapse the pocket and penetrate the line. You should know that.
You're dreaming.....
Kevin Williams and McCoy……that is about the most hilarious statement I have read in a long time…….
Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!
I was also dissapointeed that Mccoy didn’t lift today. He swears he can lift more. If that’s the case I would be ready to lift at the first opportunity while all eyes are on me. Instead, he deferred to a later date. So he’s gonna pump protein into his system the next few weeks and lift every other day to hope that he will increase his reps. He should have benn doing that all thru school…
by TheOriginalVoice on Mar 11, 2010 12:23 AM EST reply actions
I do agree with you here
There’s something fishy about this and I’m sure it’s not sitting well with the staffs that are looking at this guy in the top five. He’s really hurting his stock right now. Cracks in his game are slowly started to show and if he is indeed a great player and prospect, he has to do something to show that.
His game tape is there, so he will always have that… but a lot of great college players do not make it in the NFL. He has to show he has some of the intangibles and the strength to belong in the NFL and be a top tier player. RIght now, he appears to be ducking at every point of availability and that just feels wrong to me. Not saying he’s not going to be a good player, but if I was a GM, I’d be nervous about this guy.
Maybe that is his strategy.....LOL
he doesn’t want to play for one of the worst 5 teams in the league, so he downplays his abilities and takes a planned “pay cut” so that he can go to a better team……I’ve said this before I think.
Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!
berry good
Berry is good, but there are at least 3 other safeties that I can win with in this draft. Safety is not the most impactful position. And as good as Berry is, Taylor Mays might impact the game more than Berry will. Guys won’t fear Berry going across the middle like they will Mays. That means alligator arms and making the other team complete tougher passes along the edge. If we had 2 legitimate shutdown corners, I would take Mays in a heartbeat. With him and Delmas patrollinng the middle. Receivers might be scared to catch anything!
by TheOriginalVoice on Mar 11, 2010 12:30 AM EST reply actions
Just think if a team like the Jets got Mays?
Scary right?!!!!
by toled0lions on Mar 11, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
what about
fat a$$ from bama he would be a huge plug in the middle of the DL and should be there in the 2nd if we get berry in the 1st then get him in the 2nd
Lions fan for life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wonders how you produce 8 seasons of below .500 football and mange to keep your job as a gm.. here's 1 man wondering what kind of black mail Millen had on the Ford family.
Dude's got more "titty jiggle" than dairy cow
Get that man some support! Get him a “Man-zere” or a “Bro”!
Seinfeld.....
Mr. Costanza and Kramer……lol
Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!
so
do we go Okung, then DT, then CB then RB?
GO LIONS in 2010! the transformation starts now.. they have much to do.
I say trade down
I think the big boy from Alabama who we can get in the 2nd round would clog the lane with Hill. Williams who we got from the Browns plays the 3 tec. which means we he rushes. We dont need Suh and Willams as a rushing force and only Hill to stay back to play the run. I would go O-line early in the draft with are #2 pick traded down…maybe even twice so we can go for Iupita and have 3 2nd rounders and still get a good CB and maybe even pounce. Are draft could be much better then a guy name Suh, Berry or McCoy.
Finally something I can fully agree with.....
McCoy will be the bust of the group if there has to be one
I have to agrre with williams being number 2
I would seriously look at him as a possibility to go before Mccoy altough its unlikely.
The best there is, The best there was, and the best there ever will be - Bret the Hitman hart
Suh, McCoy, Price, Odrick, Williams
The Bringers of Hope: Stafford - Delmas - C. Johnson - Pettigrew - Levy - Hill - Schwartz
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
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