Are the Browns Packaging a Trade Together???????????
by lionsman81 on Mar 14, 2010 9:53 PM EDT
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PrintWith some recent roster shake-ups, and acquisitions of draft picks, it looks to me as if the Browns may be looking to trade up in the draft. The Lions have been in talks with Cleveland and Buffalo about the possibility of moving down, as both teams were looking to move up. It looks like Cleveland is trying to get the edge in talks by acquiring some more picks.
Today, the Browns traded Brady Quinn to the Broncos for some picks, and OLB, Kamerion Wimbley to the Raiders for a third rounder. I bet Detroit would love to get their hands on a first, second, and maybe two thirds. Detroit meanwhile, has been trading away its late round picks recently, and Martin Mayhew has even said he believes in building through the draft, not trade or free agency. I think there could be a deal in the works for the second overall pick. All this talk about Mike Holmgren saying there is no franchise QB in this draft could just be a smoke screen. I would love to have Suh, but then again, I would love to have the rest of the holes on this team filled as well.
Anyhow, tell me what you guys think. This is starting to get interesting.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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Good thought
Might be making a package for Rams though and not us. Rams could very easily take the top QB. If they take Suh then maybe the deal goes to us…
Yes I think so as I said the same thing in my blog.....
If not Detroit then I say it will be with the Rams
Ohhh ...
And if not the Browns trading up it will be Seattle, Bills or 49ers. Someone is going up and honestly, I can see both #1 and #2 picks trading down !!
Lions are in a better spot than St. Louis.....
The number one overall pick is so much more than the number two. If a team wants to trade up, it’ll be for the number 2, not the number 1 pick.
if the word
gets out .. would Washington go with the supposed 2nd best QB or bid with the Lions? Or could Cleveland and Washington start a bidding war for the #2…. if that happens….. we could compete sooner than later in the NFC North… right now I have them battling with the Bears for 3rd.. if they somehow do well they could do better especially if they get a OL on Wednesday
GO LIONS in 2010! the transformation starts now.. they have much to do.
Yup
I was thinking the same thing and had a similar post on that. I would love to see a bidding war for the Lions pick at 2.
Very true..
Lets not forget Da Bears lack of picks last year and this one. Yes they got some FAs and all, so did we..There team is getting MUCH older on D and C. Taylor has a lot of milage as well. With no young blood being added, I see up leap frogging them soon. I also see the Vikings falling far down the pecking order in the very near future.
Not so sure of that Joey
I know we all want the Vikes to crash and burn but T-Mac was coming on at the end of the season 2 years ago, He was doing good to start as well until he lost his best rec that year. and now he has 2 of the better young rec’s in the league on that team and they will have all-day AP for at least 5 or 6 more years pending injury. So I am not as sure that the vikes are going to be any worse for wear when the ageless one does finally retire.Then you have the Pack and they have a relatively young set of skilled position players as well, other than double D they have some talent on that team. Not saying I don’t like our chances but we still have a long way to go in order to catch then 2 teams. All the Pack needs is a couple of good tackles and they will be looking good for a while. Screw the Bears thou. They are starting to look like the Raiders to me!!!!! Goodbye Lovie and GOOD BYE Marinellie
How many lumps you want Doc?
If teams want to ensure they get one of the top two QBs, they have to trade with Detroit.
Then again, we will see what happens with the Rams. I am sure they take a QB, which means some team will want to trade with us. If not they might consider waiting to deal with KC.
I have heard alot of people say....Rams will take Suh and with there 2nd pick take Colt McCoy
Problem is, do you really see 2 QBs in the draft worth the position of picks 1 and 2 overall ???
Your question is irrelevant.
It is a matter of opinion whether a player is “worth” a certain pick. If a team or teams has no long term QB, who is also a short term problem, and they see a QB prospect who can fill that spot, they will take him.
It does not matter if they are rated ten spots “worse” than the position they are picked in. The simple fact is that you have to have a good starting QB, he does not have to be a Pro Bowl/HOF quality QB, to succeed in the NFL as a team.
The QBs must be picked when they are available before other QB short teams pick. This year there are two good [first round] prospects at QB. Teams that might likely take them are at #1, #4, #6, #7, and #9. Whether those two QBs are worth it or not, if a team wants a QB, that is not a multi year project and high risk, they have to get him in the top ten latest, before #4 at the earliest……which is the only way to be sure to get one.
by NorthLeft12 on Mar 15, 2010 6:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
Jimmy Clausen and Sam Bradford, in that order.
The positional need of a QB is greater than people seem to think. There’s no guarantee that the Rams will be in this position next year, or even if Colt McCoy will pan out (the success rate of 2nd round QB picks or later is very, very low). This is a quarterback league, especially now.
If the Rams don’t take either, then they’ve doomed themselves for the next decade.
by metatron5369 on Mar 15, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
actually i did a small amount of research but not much...
and i found out that more than 40% of the starters last yr. was NOT a 1st rd pick…
patroits-brady (no) eagals-mccnabb (yes)
jets-sanchez (yes) giants-manning (yes)
dolphins-penningten(no) redskins-cambell (no)
bills- loseman (not sure) cowboys-romo (no)
ravens-falco (yes) lions-strafford (yes)
bengals-palmer (yes) bears-cutler (yes)
browns-anderson (no) vikings- farve (no)
steelers- big ben (yes) packers- rogers (yes)
colts- manning (no) saints- brees (not sure)
titans-young (yes) panthers- delhome(no)
jaguars-garrard (no) bucs- freeman (yes)
texans- shaub (no) falcons- ryan (yes)
chargers- rivers (yes) 49ers- smith (yes)
broncos- orton (no) seahawks – hasselback (no)
raiders-russell (yes) rams-bulger (no)
chiefs-cassell (no) cardinals -warner (no)
so sure the odds are slightly better but thats it
Lions fan for life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wonders how you produce 8 seasons of below .500 football and mange to keep your job as a gm.. here's 1 man wondering what kind of black mail Millen had on the Ford family.
by lionsfan_772 on Mar 15, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh...
Payton Manning was the first overall pick in 98…
The better rubric is how many of those teams were any good and were any of those QBs any good?
by metatron5369 on Mar 15, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
oops
had the kiddies yelling and screaming made a few errors
Lions fan for life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wonders how you produce 8 seasons of below .500 football and mange to keep your job as a gm.. here's 1 man wondering what kind of black mail Millen had on the Ford family.
by lionsfan_772 on Mar 18, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
dude you are way off...
Losman was not even in the NFL last season. It was Ryan Fitzpatrick who got most of the starts.
The ones you missed. Campbell – YES 25th pick
Pennington – Yes 18th( again he was not the regular starter) that would be Henne
Manning – a big YES
Quinn – YES ( he started more games than Anderson)
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
Wasn't Brees a top first rounder as well.
If not he was top of second; he had to be. He was all world at Iowa! And for the Big-10!
How many lumps you want Doc?
no he was the first pick in the second...but close
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
Why would they not trade with Tampa?
If Detroit and Tampa both have their #1 QB from the draft last year, why would teams not wait until tampa is on the clock and trade up for less?
That is a good question. I think we are all assuming that Tampa wants one of Suh or McCoy.
And the only way to ensure that is to stay where they are. That assumption might be incorrect.
Because
Lets say 2 teams are after a QB and Bradford has been taken #1, Detroit is on the clock. Do you risk HOPING team A. will not trade with Detroit and team B. trades with Tampa ??? If there that interested they go for the full montey I say. No one will trade and not, FOR SURE trade the picks knowing they will get there man. If they dont they risk trading for what they might see as empty handed..unless they fill like it is still worth it seeing Berry or someone is available.
They would not wait to trade with Tampa because somebody else could leapfrog ahead of them.
Suppose St. Louis takes Bradford and Seattle wants Clausen, so they figure they’ll wait until Tampa is on the clock, knowing Detroit and Tampa won’t take a QB (they just drafted Stafford and Freeman las year).
When Detroit is on the clock, Washington, Cleveland, or Buffalo could trade with Detroit for the #2 and get Clausen.
When Tampa’s pick rolls around, the top two QB’s are already gone. Teams thinking they just needed to trade up to #3 are going to miss out on the QB they wanted, because somebody else got ahead of them and took a QB at #2.
Hey that's a timeout, I can play right? yeah, get me--get the F-- Help me up...I can throw the ball if you need me to throw the ball...
Yes, good point n4ry4. It all depends on how desperate they are.
If the Rams pass on a QB and take Suh [unlikely in my mind] I think the Lions get zero interest in a trade as teams will talk to Tampa at # 3 or even KC at # 5.
I think in your scenario, a trade with Detroit is more likely because there is virtually no value to waiting until later [# 3 or # 5] to draft a QB as they will still command the same salary and the trade would most likely be for the same package of picks. So do it with Detroit and eliminate the risk of the QB being gone……right?
If Suh is available at #2...
Mayhew will only trade the pick for a blockbuster deal. I doubt it will occur before our pick on draft day though.
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
I disagree
If Suh is there we take him because he’s the BPA, if he’s gone then we trade down because someone will want Brandford
I don't think so...
…the QB will always garner more interest than a DT. People can live without getting that stud non-QB. It’s that passing on QB’s that haunts franchises. Someone will fall in love with Bradford and will try to come and get him.
Hitting the pipe a little hard this week Nate?
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
Not at all
I’m on the employment hunt.. no treats for me :)
But I really stand by the things I say. I don’t agree at all that Suh wouldn’t garner lots of trade attention. For all the touting that’s gone on here, I figured others would feel the same way. A team in the middle of the draft, or even on the higher end, who needs one solid game changer to seal the deal (Giants, Titans, Eagles) could see Suh as a necessary element to competing for a championship. I think you guys underestimate the pressure on the coaches and front offices to produce winners, and if you have an opportunity to grab what everyone is calling one of the best defensive prospects to come out in a decade, I think, yeah, that does grab as much attention as another ‘great first round quarterback’.
I think you are right Nate
That there is going to be a better chance for us to get a better value for our 2nd pick if Kong is there for the reasons you just stated; a guy like this comes around only once in a great while, he will be in high demand. And if we can’t trade out of the 2nd spot so be it we get the Zonk prize of the best DT to come along in the last decade…. Boo hoo hoo.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I think Ndamukong would be the best option as well.........
Unless we can pull off a trade where we acquire a mound of draft picks, all within the first three rounds.
Moving up to second is a huge financial committment and depending on where the trading team is...
….could mean a very large committment in draft picks as well.
Say the Giants for instance who select at # 15. They might need to give us their top three picks with players possibly available:
- 15 – K. Wilson CB; M. Iupati G; E. Thomas S; J. Odrick DT
- 46 – D. Washington OLB; B. Ghee CB; R. Jones S; JD Walton C/G
- 76 – M. Burnett S; J. Jerry G; T. Alualu DT; AJ Edds OLB; A. Spievey CB
or even their fourth: - 112 – A. Jones DT; M. Wright S; A. Dixon RB.
I used the latest four round draft from WalterFootball.com for these players.
Actually picking one guy from each group of the first three rounds looks pretty good to me [K. Wilson, R. Jones, J. Jerry]. Adding the fourth would clinch it for me.
I think you're the first person to call me that
…which is my actual nickname in my circle of friends, haha
Just saw your profile pick NYC
dude….you’re a monster…..you should suit up for the Lions!
Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!
According to Mike Lombardi, Fans would trade up BUT GM's won't
According to Mike Lombardi on the NFL network; FANS think GM’s will trade up for Suh or McCoy, but this is just hype and won’t happen. He didn’t illustrate all of the points below, but here is my summation of where he was going with it:
- Regardless of what fans and players think, it is still JUST a prospect
- The money for a DL puts them at nearly a franchise level
- The above money is heavily guaranteed
- If they are wrong on a QB trade-up, it happens and is forgiveable. If you are wrong on a $70 mil DL trade-up, you will lose your job
- They aren’t willing to risk their jobs on a prospect
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
If the team is willing, this is a uncapped year...
They could front load the contract as much as they want to help the cap in future years. Pats have a ton of picks this year. This is a team I could financialy handle the cost. It would be hard to see him in the system. Maybe at DE on a 3-4. Still thats a big jump for a maybe fit at DE and DT rotation.
If you think that Marty Mornhinweg didn't lose his job in large part due to Harrington...
…you’re crazy. A QB bust is just as big of a big deal, if not substantially larger than a QB busting. The QB is the face of the franchise, the one person who touches the ball every single down on offense. Not only is the pay smaller for a non-QB that high in the draft, but in my opinion, it’s far more forgiveable to have drafted a bust elsewhere, because of the fact that depth allows that player to continue to contribute. Aside from a Vernon Gholston-type scenario, ‘busts’ don’t go from top of the draft talents to total nobodies. They can contribute on a starter level, albeit just not with the ability they were expected to, whereas when a QB busts, he’s worthless, sitting on a bench.
Just my two cents.
Marty lost his job because he lost his ability to lead...
The final nail in the coffin was when he won the toss in overtime and elected to kick. Not only did it confirm his questionable judgment, but no one would follow him after that.
Besides, Marty was not a GM.
Just give me 25 guys on the last year of their contracts; I'll win a pennant every year....Sparky Anderson
I agree Nate
Someone lower like the Saints who need pass rush help might take him…there thoughts might be this is our missing peace to repeat OR another team thinking to GET to the big game. I could see teams experimenting with him at DE on a 3-4 scheme. Moving him around a bit for confussion and depending on opposing Ds and there personnel
If they did trade, would you...
like to see them use some of those picks to try and get another pick in the 1st. I really enjoyed having 2 picks in last years 1st round.
i would enjoy it
get cb harden and s thomas or mays now the secondary is set spend the rest of the draft on the big O filling in the line wr and rb then we could be solid
Lions fan for life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wonders how you produce 8 seasons of below .500 football and mange to keep your job as a gm.. here's 1 man wondering what kind of black mail Millen had on the Ford family.
by lionsfan_772 on Mar 15, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
HMmmmmm
Seem like I just made this post a week ago when the Browns openly started to shop Brady (BUST) Quinn on the open market. I thought then like I think now our Lions ARE going to trade with the Browns who with Holmgrem want that gun slinger at the QB spot. We are going to trade with the browns who I personally think want Claussen. He fits the mold of what Kolmgrem has brought in not only in GB(FAVRE) but when he went to Seattle he brought in Hasselback. Holmgrem just beleaves that he can make any QB better than what they really are. PICK 1 goes to Bradford PICK 2: Clausen to the Browns. TB gets the steal of the draft in KONG Pick 4: Wash takes ??? Okung? Berry? McCoy? Dez?? Pick 5:KC: ??? McCoy? Okung? Berry? Pick 6:Seattle takes ?? Could be anyone, Pete Carrol might like Offence might go Defence. Pick 7:DETROIT LIONS GER THE BERRY FLAVORED KOOL-AID THAT I WANTED ALL ALONG!!!!!!!!!
How many lumps you want Doc?
3. Suh; 4. Okung; 5. Berry; 6. McCoy or Bulaga .........................which means
We get bupkus. Sorry, I want a game changer not a risk or a solid starter.
The Browns better plan on mortgaging the farm to get our pick.
it would be nice
it looks that way….
GO LIONS in 2010! the transformation starts now.. they have much to do.
Rumors have KC taking Berry so I would not bet on that.
I am all for trading with Cleveland for more picks as long as we get a lot of them. I also think Claussen will be a better NFL QB than Bradford. Though the Rams do have a run game to help him out. I think no matter what the Rams pick teams will want to move up with us because of Washington. However Tampa is ahead of them too and they do not need a QB. It is not the Rams we will compete with for trade down bait but Tampa. I think it is much more likely to see #2 and 3 both trade down than see #1 and 2. Here is how I think it would go if we did trade with the browns. Rams take Bradford, Browns take Claussen with out pick, Tampa takes Suh, Washington is like OMG all tah leet QB is gone, whut we don nao?!?! And they draft Okung to replase Samules. KC takes Berry. Seattle takes Spiller. That leaves us McCoy at 7 ;) the player we have been targeting all along anyways. I would be ok with Okung, Berry, or even Trent Williams at 7.
last year the rumors were that Curry was going to KC...
Rumors are just that. KC drafts Okung.
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
That's who I see also Bishop
Or they get McCoy, which ever one Washington does not take. I’m just scared about the 6 spot with an unknown in Pate Carroll.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Carroll want Clausen
He seen him enough at ND. Perfect situation. Groom Clausen for two years behind Hassleback.
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
Could be possible
Mayhew better get value though…
"Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind." - Pride Leader, Sean Yuille, wielder of the Ban Hammer.
2010 Wests Tigers : Current record - 1-0 : Current Position - 8th : Last game - Defeated Manly Sea Eagles 26 -22
Why would Cleveland trade up?
Holmgren is “known” for taking QB’s in the later rounds. As a GM or as a Head Coach. He has never drafted a QB in the 1st round. In fact, he has drafted more DB’s in the 1st round, than any other position( between GB and Sea). And signing Delhomme, almost guarantees that Cleveland will not draft a QB in the 1st this year.
So why are they picking up extra draft picks? Because they are a bad team. They need those picks to re-build. I see Cleveland drafting Berry or Dez Bryant.
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
I agree with JC. I don't believe that the Browns want one of the two "franchise" QBs.
They passed on Sanchez last year. They may be crazy enough to go for Colt or Tebow in the second round. Or Jarrett Brown or Jevan Snead. Who knows?
Looking at Holmgren's history
the QB in this years draft that makes the most sense for the browns is Colt McCoy . He is the gunslinger in the mold of Favre and Hasselback that behind Delhomme and Wallace could be molded into his QB of the future
GT
You think Colt is more of a gunner than Claussen??? they are both close in terms of talent to me but I am curious if you really think Colt is going to go before the (overhyped) ND QB. I just think that the 2 years he was with Charlie Weiss was worth more than Colt’s tenure in Texas.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Clausen > McCoy
Clausen’s a pretty damn good prospect, just look at the numbers he put up last year in a pro-style offense. Without Clausen, Notre Dame’s season would have been a disaster.
McCoy doesn’t have the arm strength, and he hasn’t played in a pro-style offense. These are 2 very big knocks against him. McCoy deserves to be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round, but I haven’t heard anyone label him as a franchise QB.
Me either
personally I think that A certain Central mich Chippawa QB is the 3rd best QB coming out but I am byast because I actually got to see him play quiet a bit.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I'll take two lumps.....
because I am “quite” sure that I too am “byast” towards my “bias” in regard to “quiet” people……lol
Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!
hahaha..but I do agree Dan is the third best QB in the draft.
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
A very good point..
I am not disagreeing with your point. I could see them taking a QB though to develop him for 2 years with Delhomme as the starter and Wallace as the back up untill they groom him a bit. I could also see them taking a QB in later rounds and doing the same thing.
I dunno that CLE wants bradford or a QB
Who knows they may have there eyes on SUH, or Mccoy to put in with rogers.
How do you keep a running back out of your secondary? You put up a LEVY.
I'm not sure
but I don’t think anyone has mentioned this yet. What if the Patriots offered us there 1st and all their 2nd round picks for our 2nd over all. Do you all think that would be worth it or is that in you guyz is minds too far down in the first no matter the elevendybillion 2nd round picks that they have to ofer us.
I thought the same thing..
Even if they dont go for Suh, its not a bad back-up option. They could then trade back down with say the Bills to get Dez Bryant, I hear they want a WR in the first so this is not that far fetched. They would then have there guy and got some good trade back down picks from the Bills. Bills would get there QB. and the Pats would still have a crap ton of picks.
Thought ALMOST the same thing but
Who would we take in the first round Wilson, Graham (if he is there), Haden (if he is there), Iupitia (if he is there) other ?????????
by Motown_Soldier on Mar 15, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
there are a few solid LT's in the 1st
Seems like they like Backus though.
How do you keep a running back out of your secondary? You put up a LEVY.
by The Profiler on Mar 15, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
lions might do it if your right lions would have pats 22pick and 4 2rd picks and one very high 2rd pick let is just like haveing a late 1rd pick . just think of all good players you could draft. player like mike lupati g with 22pick in the 2rd players like jared odrick dt//devinmccourty cb//carlosdunlapde//jahvid best rb thats just the 1rd and 2rd of draft not evean late rd yet of draft. iwould hate to lose great player like suh but if your the lions gm you do it right now .
Buffalo....now that could be interesting..
I do believe they want a QB. Do they trade up or sit back and hope Clausen falls to them? If St. Louis drafts a QB. Than you will see Buffalo get nervous. Because Seattle will be in front of the Bills. I think that Pete Carroll will bring in a QB to groom. And I know he has seen enough of Clausen to warrant picking him.
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
Buffalo will not trade up. They don't want the financial committment a top five pick would demand.
I could see Buffalo drafting a QB in the second or even third rounds. Tim Tebow could find a home there.
The Bills have drafted a QB in the first round twice in the last thirty-five years; Losman in 2004 at # 22 and Jim Kelly at # 14 in 1983. Both of them were the second first round pick of the Bills in that draft. Losman behind Lee Evans and Kelly behind Tony Hunter TE.
They have drafted six other QBs in that time frame in the second or later rounds. Since 1994, when the draft went to seven rounds, the Bills have only drafted three QBs, yet never really had a good QB in that time. They have seemed to rely on getting aging QBs [Flutie, Bledsoe]or FA QBs [Holcomb, Rob Johnson, Van Pelt, Fitzpatrick] or giving their project QBs [Losman, Edwards, Collins] a shot.
This history is important because the long time owner [Ralph Wilson] is a very hands on guy. I don’t think he will suddenly change overnight [I think he is about 80 – no he is 91].
Forget about a trade with Buffalo……..never happen.
Something about Buffalo
their owner is old now and said before last season he wants to put a winning team on the field again before he goes. That’s why they went out and brought in T.O. last year, He’s not the same guy that he was in the past. He has paid top $$$$$ for players in the past they had one of the highest paid Lt’s in the game for a min. I’m just saying that Buffalo fans are getting as restless as we have been for the past decade and I wouldn’t be surprised if they did try and make a move for 1 of the 2 QB’s. Since K-Gun they have not had a servicable QB and he knows it.
How many lumps you want Doc?
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