Whats Up With Hargrove?
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 4:53 PM EDT
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Did the Lions offer on Anthony Hargrove? Can somebody please tell me? It would seem to be a no-brainer to me. And.are they releasing Grady Jackson because of roster bonus considerations and hoping to re-sign him later. Because if not, that would seem to signal that they indeed will draft one of the top defensive tackles, (Macoy or Suh) instead of who they really need, Okung. If they draft Okung they could put Jeff Backus out of his misery and kick him inside where he might be more effective. And tell me they didn't re-sign father time, (Jon Jansen) LOL again! What is the point? If this was supposed to be a rest home for old Wolverines they should have kept Foote! If they don't draft Okung and go into the season with Backus and Jansen for their only options for left tackles, I don't have faith that we will have a succesful offense in Detroit this upcoming year! And, our "franchise" quarterback will be on his back even more than last year!
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thanks
I knew they released Jackson, my question was why?
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
My opinion...
They got an upgrade with C-Will on ALL levels
No word on Hargrove yet. He was a long shot to begin with: as a RFA, not only would we have to offer him a contract, but New Orleans would have to decide not to match it. He was also looking to speak with several other teams, so it could be that he’s just getting all his homework done before talking contract with anyone.
I think it’s relatively closed-minded to say that we only specifically need Russell Okung, and also goes against our front offices’ mantra of drafting the most talented player available. We certainly need a stud left tackle, but if that left tackle doesn’t have the talent level of a Ndamukong Suh (or Eric Berry, you know I had to put that in there) we’re short changing ourselves.
The Jansen signing was for depth purposes.. Not to mention he plays RT. He can come in and play in a pinch, and I’m sure he’s a great help to the young, developing RT that we have.. 12 years of starting a position will do that for you. As I’ve said before, I don’t see us NOT getting guard help in FA or the draft, and I think that it will help Backus and Raiola tremendously.
Have some faith in the front office… they know what they’re doing (for once), and we should be well on our way to contention after this offseason.
Not so fast my friend
I don’t think they are takiing that mantra too seriously themselves or they would not have drafted that tightend in the second round last year or traded a pick to Philly instead of drafting Shady Mckoy last year. And you think they know what their doing? That’s your opinion and I respect that but it remains to be seen if they indeed know what they are doing as they have only been doing it independent of Millen for one year. Lets see over time before we annoint them as geniuses. And Raiola can’t be their center hope for the future. He’s too small. I just feel that Backus as a gaurd could give Raiola more help. I LOVE Jon Jansen as a player and mentor I am a a Wolverine fan thru and thru. I just feel he might be better off as a coach at this point. 12 years of starting a position will do that for you too! And as tackles go Okung is at the level of the others you mentioned at their respective positions.
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
what TE in the 2nd round last year?
We got Pettigrew 20th overall in the first round.
How do you figure?
In the first two rounds of the draft, they got the #1 QB, #1 TE, and #1 S in the draft. If you have the opportunity to take the best player possible when it’s your turn to pick, you are certainly taking that approach.
Who is Shady Mckoy? I’ve got to disagree with you, boss, by pulling a ridiculous trade for Roy Williams, bringing in talent like Corey Williams, KVB, Burleson, and getting 4 or 5 studs out of our draft last year, yes, I would say the FO is doing a fantastic job. The level of talent on this team is skyrocketing (not that that’s saying much) and the trades we’ve made have been for little to nothing for quality.
I don’t know why people get on Raiola so much for being ‘too small’. The guy is a center. You don’t want a 6’6" guy snapping the ball. Raiola is 6’1", 295 lbs. Two other top centers in the league have a couple inches on him (Matt Birk and Nick Mangold are both 6’4" and outweigh him by a whopping 10 pounds) and a small amount of weight. I’m sure his difficulties haven’t had anything to do with his responsibility being to snap the ball and then account for not only the man he needs to block, but also worry about the terrible job our guards do.
I understand the hesitance to anoint our FO as the answer to 50 years of ineptitude, but give credit where credit is due. Just because it doesn’t look like things are going in the direction you might think is best, does not mean that we’re destined for another year of garbage.
+100
If you can get the number one player at three different positions in a draft, i’d say your doing pretty well…especially with the emergence of the Tight End as an integral part of the offense in the NFL and the Safety as the defensive leader.
The NFL is a pass first league now and to get the 3 top players in passing aspects of the game is pretty solid. Nice job FO
Delmas is a good hitter
Delmas is a good hitter an in the box type safety. He is not the ideal safety in a pass happy league. And I don’t feel that the Quarterback while taken number one was the number one quarterback in the draft. The Lions felt that. I think he was second or third best and the future will show it
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoa
No, no way.
For just proving Stafford was the best quarterback, see last years Browns game. That is all
And Delmas is now widely considered around the LEAGUE to be the one of the best, if not best, young safteys
BY WHO?
Stafford has one good game and he was the best qb in the draft? Delmas is considered one of the best hitters. But in this age you gotta cover and he is lacking there. I’ll give Stafford a pass cause of Backus but remember Joey had some good games too and yall threw him under the bus
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
lets put things into perspective here....
sanchez got a lot of help. he was on a team with the best D, the best Oline, which led to them having the best running game. stafford had close to the worst of all those things, and still played well, considering.
Stafford was the best QB in last yrs draft
We would be kicking our selves if they waited to grab its “franchise” QB this yr.
Bradford and his injury concern,Clausen and his throw it up for grabs,i dont think he can read defenses. Those are the 2 "franchise "QBs this draft.Other guys LeFevore,Hiller McCoy are more steady type QBs ,not guys you draft top 5. If the Lions didnt take Stafford last yr,it would be 3-4 yrs til they found a STARTING QB,thru the draft.
Shut the F*&%$in front door
Staff is by far the best QB in last years draft..If you dont realize that you have NO business writing posts on here..Watch the games..there on SUNDAYS usually start around 10 AM… If your a NYJ fan post there,they have your ignorant type there +6
by CR on Mar 21, 2010 3:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Good points
Nate I can tell by your comments that you are a student of the game and have a lot of good points. I look forward to your insites in the future but I still feel the best option is Backus at gaurd and Okung on the edge. That would make Raiola way better and also Stafford. And me a happy camper. LOL
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
i still would like to know how
people know backus will be a pro bowl LG…and okung be a stud day 1..
just grids my gears
okung is going to take 2-3 years to even say he is better then backus
He is Good
Corey Williams is Good but so is depth.
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 5:21 PM EDT reply actions
My Bad
I meant to say tightend with their second first round pick
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 5:23 PM EDT reply actions
Actually
Pettigrew should have been a second round pick
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 5:25 PM EDT reply actions
Yea, he was by far the best blocking TE that can actually stretch the field in years...
most 1st round TEs can’t block well.
http://cmufootball.blogspot.com/
by CapitolLions on Mar 21, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't see it that way
Pettigrew is okay but not the best player left at the time and the responder said the best player on the board. Even if he was the best tightend, which is debatable he would have slid out of the first round if the Lions had not taken him just like Delmas. Where was he when Stafford needed those first downs across the middle and in the red zone offense? I don’t see him with all that ability
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 5:38 PM EDT reply actions
if you projected his receiving numbers he would have the best numbers for a rookie TE ever..
so how is that not good?
Fact
I think I did this once and he would have ended up with something like 80, 900 and 8…or something like that.
http://cmufootball.blogspot.com/
by CapitolLions on Mar 21, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Kiper?
Who made his name evaluating high school players. That guy will show all of you what he is. A pedestrian type tightend. No hands no heart. Tightends gotta be tough and come across that middle and get cracked hold on to the ball and get up and line up and block down field. If he does this with succes I will eat my words.
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude...
…your showing that a person can run their mouth obnoxiously about something while knowing nothing.
Pettigrew showed great hands after the first couple of games (he didn’t get thrown to the first game and then had one or two games he had a few drops, great production after that).
by Mister Gloom on Mar 21, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Dear Sir...
…the only players other than Pettigrew who people were talking about for that pick were Perria Jerry (who missed most of the season with a knee injury) and Maualuga (who’s position we filled effectively with Deandre Levy). And many in the media were highly praising the Pettigrew pick (see the Sporting News draft review…).
by Mister Gloom on Mar 21, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Oher...
…was not on anyone’s radar for the Lions to take, if they hadn’t taken Pettigrew the expectation of everyone of the people outside the team talking was that they were taking Jerry. Heck, if Baltimore didn’t have him as high as he did, he was expected to fall into the second round.
by Mister Gloom on Mar 21, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you misunderstand.
The philosophy is to not go for BPA blindly, Shwartz himself has said many times that it is weighted for position of need. That is why you wont see them go for LB’s or QB’s high this year. However if you have a 3rd round guy, aka Follett, slide down, you can bet they will grab him up. A big part of their philosophy is accurately estimating other teams needs versus postional depth in the draft too. And yes, top flight tight ends go in the first round. Gresham will go in the first this year, a bit faster than Pettigrew, better receiving, but not as good of a blocker. Also did you forget that Kellen Winslow Jr. went 7th overall or something like that? Anyways back to the philosophy, the idea is to draft as many starters as you can and hopefully hit some home runs in the process. So this year, no matter the valuation on QBs, LBs, and FS you wont see them taking them high. The positional needs of the team will dictate that. Now granted if some moronic slide happens, like say Colt McCoy slides to the 5th round, don’t be surprised if we snap him up.
I forgot to add...
That they value the players based on our team. They look at what they want from a corner, safety, linebacker, defensive tackle, defensive end, etc. and they go for that type of player. This coaching staff also favors competitive players, what you might call big heart guys, or big effort guys. So you might see them pass on someone like Terence Cody because of a bad rep with work ethic and whatnot, even if he is there in the 4th round. You wont see this staff take chances on unmotivated players.
You are right Nate
But those ten pounds are what I’m refering to. I didn’t say too short I said Too Small. He is trying to move 300 plus pound men in front of him. The best gaurd the Lions have is Jeff Backus. Your point is well taken!
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 5:41 PM EDT reply actions
Projected?
LOL Potential means you haven’t done anything yet
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 5:49 PM EDT reply actions
Not really
Thanks for sharing that jk. I’m new to this.
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe he was saying that
if he hadn’t gone down with injury, and merely matched his current level of production the remainder of the season, he would have set the rookie record.
Once again
Potentially he would have set a record. We’ll never know. Think Barry Sanders and Walter Peyton.
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention
Pettigrew had finally caught on in those last few games before his injuries.
Rec Yds Y/G Avg Lng YAC 1stD TD
30 346 31.5 11.5 30 6.4 20 2
Rec Yds Y/G Avg Lng YAC 1stD TD
33 368 23.0 11.2 30 4.5 21 2
Rec Yds Y/G Avg Lng YAC 1stD TD
35 347 23.1 9.9 36 3.1 18 1
Rec Yds Y/G Avg Lng YAC 1stD TD
24 389 25.9 16.2 48 5.6 19 2
The first one is Pettigrew. After that is Tony Gonzalez, then Jason Witten, and then Antonio Gates, all in their first year. Now to add to it, Pettigrew did this in 11 games. Everyone else was 15 games. Clearly, Pettigrew had a better rookie season then all these, now great tight ends. I will gladly take a Witten, or a Gates, or a Gonzalez as another weapon for Stafford
WHOA
Those other guys were on running teams and in a different situation. I know you don’t begin to believe that this guy is another either one of those guys? If so I can’t believe that you do think he will some how get speed like Gonzales, hands like Witten or heart and toughness like Gates. Come on you can’t coach what these guys have that Pettigrew doesn’t.
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
what dont you think he has??
he has hands.. and he can block.. he isn’t the fasts TE in the game but that about it… but its not like he is slow.. he could probably run from goal post to gaol post before you got out the end zone
You are right
I am disabled and am a candidate for hip replacement surgery. Thanks for reminding me. We are not talking about me tho’ we are talking about Pettigrew and he does not have GOOD hands and he is not as fast as any of those guys he compared him to. I think Gonzales could probably outrun him at his age. And he is not some roadgrader type blocker. He is alright but not great like is being portrayed. And I don’t see him going across that midlle with HEART
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
i think you to down on him
his biggest flag is that he is one depressed mother fucker.. i was reading his facebook for a few but stopped b/c to much of it you might start cutting you wrist.. lol
why don’t you think he has good hands?? grew had 346 yards 31.5 11 games above avg for TE.. he is above avg blocker.. like you said i did he isn’t the fasts TE but most the TE that are faster are pure receiving TE. but he makes up for his speed with his power he is harder to bring down then the one listed above
Hmmm
WOW I am on a walker and or cane but not depressed. I wish I could run at all LOL I am not tryin to be down on the guy but I don’t see him as the top flight talent that others do. I’m no expert, I just play one in blogs LOL Hopefully I’m all wrong about the guy cause I really want the Lions and him to succeed
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The Lions attempted only about 2 passes per game
more than any of those three other teams. Certainly not enough of a differential to account for Pettigrew’s clearly superior numbers. You’re assumptions are inaccurate. Pettigrew looked better as a rookie than any of those other three players, who happen to be some of the greatest tight ends of all time. There’s nothing to indicate that Pettigrew won’t be a pro bowl tight end.
Apples and oranges
Is what we are comparing. In this pass happy age with a gunslinger qb he may very well be a pro bowler. Oh yeah and theres always that old alternate route to get to the position. LOL Like I said I am hoping for the best for the Lions and the young man. I’m no hater! I have always rooted for the lions and always will unless one of my Grandsons becomes a pro on another team. LOL
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
WE don't need you
go to another blog and pull this shit
by CR on Mar 21, 2010 4:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you kidding me?
Tony Gonzalez was like the main target in KC, he was their Calvin Johnson.
And Gates in San Deigo, for real? This is the team that let go of Drew Brees because he was a backup….
And Dallas with Witten… OMG we all know how him and Tony are BFF’s and hold each others hands in the shower.
You must be just trying to stir up crap because your “opinions” lack any real facts or substance to back them up, they only seem to be targeted to start drama.
Dude, if you think Grew isn't going to be a top 5-10 TE this year
and a top 3-5 TE for years to come, you are nuts.
Absolutly a great pick at 20
http://cmufootball.blogspot.com/
by CapitolLions on Mar 21, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Nice Site
I have really enjoyed all the comments and insite that all of you have provided to me today and will be looking forward to hearing from all of you in the future. I really hope that the Lions have a great year even tho’ I might sound like a cynic. Thanks to all of you for your fellowship and great sharing of knowledge today.
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 6:04 PM EDT reply actions
Welcome to the Pride!
"Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind." - Pride Leader, Sean Yuille, wielder of the Ban Hammer.
2010 Wests Tigers : Current record - 1-0 : Current Position - 8th : Last game - Defeated Manly Sea Eagles 26 -22
by Hyperion Ecta on Mar 20, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
read somewhere
that we’ll know something by april 15th….i think it’s the cutoff date for RFAs to sign somewhere else.
Thanks
Thanks for sharing that DR. I hope we can get more vetran help in the d=line and draft am offensive tackle. Like the Rams kept passing up qb’s we’ve kept passing up left tackles and I just don’t feel we can do that again. I think Stafford would agree. LOL
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Goodnight
You all have a great evening and keep hope alive for the Lions. I am!
by mister nattydred on Mar 20, 2010 7:45 PM EDT reply actions
I don't think we've heard anything about Hargrove
"Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind." - Pride Leader, Sean Yuille, wielder of the Ban Hammer.
2010 Wests Tigers : Current record - 1-0 : Current Position - 8th : Last game - Defeated Manly Sea Eagles 26 -22
People, People...
…can’t you see. This is Drew Sharp field testing ideas for his latest “Here’s why Michigan SPorts sucks” column (His old fill-in-the-blank style of “This <Lost/Should Have Lost> and here’s why” got too predictable). It’s all so obvious, the urge to shit on any idea that’s remotely positive regardless of the facts to the contrary? Classic Sharp.
last year the lions shoud have drafted a ot with their 2pick inthe 1rd thier were afew good ones they could have picked . but the lions gm went with the top rated te in the draft to help his young qb whoe was the top pick in the draft . ithink the lions gm went with the te pick last year because he will take the best bpa at ot this year in the 1rd of draft to start to up grade the offensive line i know their are two great dt in this draft class but their also alot of good ones you can get in the 2rd or 3rd of this draft the same thig can be said of ss/fs in this draft as will ascbs but you only have maybee 3ot whoe should be draft in the 1rd so ithink the lions will draft a ot with their 2pick in draft.
lol.....he's your biggest rival for the "Misspeller of the Year" award.
Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!
I am not going to translate that one...I dont work on Sundays.... ; )
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
All I caught
was something about how we should have picked an OT last year instead of Pettigrew. I really don’t have time to decipher the rest right now.
i am even worse at spelling and grammar then you so don't take offence but this is what i think you meant
last year the lions should have drafted a OT with their 2nd pick in the 1st round… their were a few good ones they could have picked … but the lions GM went with the top rated TE in the draft to help his young QB.. who was the top pick in the draft … I think the lions GM went with the TE pick last year because he will take the best BPA at OT this year in the 1st round of draft to start to up grade the offensive line i know their are two great DT in this draft class but their also alot of good ones you can get in the 2rd or 3rd of this draft the same thing can be said of SS/FS in this draft as will (ascbs scrubs?) but you only have maybe 3 OT who should be draft in the 1st round so I think the lions will draft a OT with their 2 overall pick in draft
now i disagree the 34th over all(are 2nd round pick) has much better value at LT this year.. okung is just to much of a reach and has to many red flags to go 2nd overall
ooo
ascbs
is
as will as CBs
there is good everthing later though so you can make the argument for any postion… we passed on DT at 20th overall b/c we where going to pick one this year.. see how easy that was?
I think ascbs scrubs meant "as cb scrubs"...it was a rhetorical question
And for the record, I mean no ill will in my comments…they were intended to be lighthearted. det32, you are smarter than you let on.
Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!
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