Do our Free Agency aquisitions spell no Suh?
by ATL Lion on Mar 7, 2010 8:47 AM EST
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A lot of people (including myself) have speculated that the trade for Williams and the signing of KVB paired with 2 of our starting DBs leaving means we are done with our D line and are going to focus on DBs in the draft. This points to us taking Berry with pick 1.2 instead of Suh or possibly trading down and taking Haden and Wilson as our first two picks. I want to give a couple reasons why this might not be the case.
1. The D line help we got is 30 years old. They are trying to build a team for the future, not plug in a couple pieces for a playoff run. With that in mind, they DID NOT solve our D line issues in FA. We still have a big need for young help on the line.
2. Drafting multiple starters in the same position is not something you plan to do. If you draft DBs in the 1st and 2nd, then in 4 or 5 years you are back to the same issue when their contracts come due at the same time. I'm not saying this is not done, but go ahead and tell me the last time a team took the same position with their 1 and 2. Even if it happens, it is rarely planned for by the FO. There is also a benefit to have a mix of experience levels on the field that you would not get from two players of the same draft class.
Based on how they worked the off season last year, I expect us to trade or sign a DB as well as draft one. We might even have some starters on the bench now (Jack Williams, the CFL guy). This does not totally rule out Berry at 1.2, but it does say that Suh is still a strong possibility at 1.2 because we still need long term help at DT.
Oh, and lets not forget we need some O Line help pretty bad.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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We Will Takle Suh....
…..and probably 2 dbs in the draft as well….there is no way you would pass up Suh ubless you got a great trade offer….Evben if that happens and we drop down into the top 10 I think we still take A guy like Williams from Tennessee to bolster the DT poistion…..Then in 2nd 3rd and 4th we take dbs in 2 of the 3 rounds.
Williams is a Nose Tackle. We don't need a Nose Tackle.
That’s what Sammie Lee Hill does. Corey Williams is a penetrating DT that will fit well with Sammie Lee. We could use another penetrating DT like Suh or McCoy to give us an outstanding interior. Hell even Odrick or Price would fit well with those two, although we are unlikely to get them in the second round. We would need to trade up somehow. Or trade down as many are speculating.
Wrong defense
We’re not using a defense with 1-gap DT’s. We have a 2-gap 4-3 defense with 2 nose tackles in a 4-3, albeit “Big Baby” mismatch-type nosetackles with great agility for their size. Just like with LB’s and safeties, Schwartz is going for the priciple of “mirroring”…….the 2 sides of the defense are symmetrical, the players have the same skills on both sides. There is no FS/SS, only LS/RS. There is no SLB or WLB, only LOLB and ROLB. There is no NT/UT, only LDT/RDT…..2 "GIANT DT’s. Schwartz and Gunther have done great at collaberating and adding Schwartz’s principle of “mirroring” to Gunther’s blitzing 4-3. This is the defense we are using. It may not be what some want, but it’s what it IS (and WAS last season). Now we’re adding more talented pieces that FIT (Corey Williams) to make it more effective. I prefer to see the defense for what it is, not what I want it to be. Saves on disappointment later.
Honorary Driver of the Kyle Wilson Bus and Keeper of the Dreadlocks!
The 313 Missile Squadron: Delmas, Berry, Wilson......seek and destroy!
Hey, as long as Zack Follett keeps hitting people, he can rap to Barney the Dinosaur for all I care.
In my best Stewie Griffin voice... Thank-you!
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry and Kyle Wilson - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 8, 2010 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think most are overthinking this, ATL
If Suh is still there, the Lions will take him. He makes so much more sense than Berry on every level…. cost, impact, value, etc. No way they pass on Suh to take Berry just because they got Corey Williams. It seems almost silly to say it like that. Williams will add depth and can start if they need him to initially, but Suh could be a once-in-a-decade DT. To me, it’s still a no-brainer.
I think the plan is still to take Suh and possibly team him up with Williams on passing downs to get max pass rush up the middle. I agree with the major secondary concerns everyone has, but we all knew that we had too many holes to fill in one offseason. I think they’ll take a corner in the first three rounds and still pick up someone in free agency. It will be far from an ideal situation, but we were never one offseason from contention. Like I’ve said many, many times… we need two, maybe three offseasons to correct the utter destruction that Matt Millen created with this roster.
There are no shortcuts………………………
My feelings exactly.
The only way I see the Lions passing on Suh is if hey get a trade offer for more picks that they can not refuse. As Drew said, Suh is a once-in-a-decade talent.
Right... trades can change the scenario
The ONLY way they should pass on Suh is if they get a blockbuster deal for more picks. Then, I am fine with them dropping down and picking up a second-tier first rounder (basically anyone other than Suh or Berry) and pick up more picks to help address all these need. I just think trading down will be unlikely. So…. you take Suh.
agree to disagree
Cost, value, impact, AND fit……..Eric Berry.
Honorary Driver of the Kyle Wilson Bus and Keeper of the Dreadlocks!
The 313 Missile Squadron: Delmas, Berry, Wilson......seek and destroy!
Hey, as long as Zack Follett keeps hitting people, he can rap to Barney the Dinosaur for all I care.
awesome d line
equals easier, not better corner play, schwartz knows this. lets get SUH, and dominate the trenches for as long as we can.
Suh/Hill
For a decade would be nice I can’t argue that.But so would Berry/Delmas. Which ever way our front office goes I am very eager to get to the draft day party started. I think that Suh and Berry are both of the caliber to be players that come along once in a decade, with Kong being just a little bit more of a need. I just can’t quit thinking of Kong being the king of the beasts, like Lions are suppose to be.
there wasnt a pick for me.. i want us to but dont think we will... but you never know..
to things though..
the browns wne WR WR in the 2nd last year they had 2 or 3 pick in 2nd. any way went back to back WR
and Jack Williams, is the broncos guy not the CFL… CFL is De De
ATL, Last year the Dolphins took Vontae Davis and Sean Smith in the first and second round.
Both of those guys are CBs. And they both started as CBs for most of the season. Smith all sixteen games and Davis nine games.
In 2008 the Chiefs drafted Cornerbacks Brandon Flowers and Brandon Carr in the second and fifth rounds and they have started all but four games since then.
It can be done. Both of those teams seem to be in pretty good shape at that position.
I dunno
Suh is still a option he is to good to atleast not consider picking still. I also think Corey has left us more of a option in picking Berry instead. I definatley feel Mccoy is out of the picture now.
The best there is, The best there was, and the best there ever will be - Bret the Hitman hart
Suh is still definitely an option
Even with the help we acquired…….
Remember, BPA is their strategy.
GO LIONS! RESTORE THE ROAR!
I remember
That’s why I’m ordering a Berry Jersey.
Honorary Driver of the Kyle Wilson Bus and Keeper of the Dreadlocks!
The 313 Missile Squadron: Delmas, Berry, Wilson......seek and destroy!
Hey, as long as Zack Follett keeps hitting people, he can rap to Barney the Dinosaur for all I care.
I love it
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry and Kyle Wilson - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 8, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
Suh
There is no possible way we don’t draft Suh if he is indeed available unless for a trade down. He’s the number one guy on almost every team’s draft boards, hopefully not the Rams thought, as their better off with a QB.
Vanden Bosch and Corey won’t be much of an impact if you don’t finish the job. Adding Suh will give the Lions something to build on with Sammie also getting in on the rotation and benefiting from the upgrades.
FINISH THE JOB!
www.prosportsdraft.webs.com
Job's finished
We got 2 quality starters at DT now. Still looking for a secondary…….still need to finish the job there.
Honorary Driver of the Kyle Wilson Bus and Keeper of the Dreadlocks!
The 313 Missile Squadron: Delmas, Berry, Wilson......seek and destroy!
Hey, as long as Zack Follett keeps hitting people, he can rap to Barney the Dinosaur for all I care.
Not necessarily
With a lineup of Suh and Williams with Hill in the rotation, you can defenitely make the case the Lions would have one of the better interior linemen rotation in the league. If they stay as it is right now, it’ll just be an average line but still better than what we’ve had in a while.
Finish the job means make that a position of strength instead of a position filled. You can’t ever have enough linemens no matter what team you are. It may not be our biggest need anymore but adding the likes of Suh or even McCoy will make Vanden Bosch and Williams that much better and Avril might just break out this year.
www.prosportsdraft.webs.com
So Calvin
And before I start just know I’d be happy with either guy Kong/Berry. You want to make 1 position a strength and leave another position as a hole, when you have the chance to fill that spot with a potential all-pro. If I was weighing the options of taking a EXTRA DT or filling a hole that is staring me in the face what would you do? Remember Both guys are rated VERY HIGH on your board. BPA or BPA and fill hole.Please don’t bring up Okung in this cause we can do wayyyyyy better with either Kong/Berry.Now with a certain FA still out there in Sharper If we could somehow bring him back to the North division my opinion would swing right back the other way and i would want SUH over all others. But we will see what our FO is going to do in the next week or so.
How many lumps you want Doc?
See post below.
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry and Kyle Wilson - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 8, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
No, No, No....
Job NOT finished. SLH has promise, but he was quite ineffective at times last year. I’m also not as sold on Corey Williams as being the stud up front that we need. He is a piece of the puzzle, but he doesn’t complete it. Ndamukong Suh would complete it.
I agree Drew
Suh would finish the job up front as well as Berry would fill up the backfield the same way. I just feel that Berry is more of an upgrade at Safety than Suh is on the line as it sits right now. Again I don’t think we are done in FA so we will see, there is still a month and a half until the draft any with this front office who knows we may be able to get Sharper in here for a short run next to Delmas. And for that matter I said it a cople of days ago and now we are in the Lito Shepard hunt so we will see.
How many lumps you want Doc?
True
Its really simple for the Lions, if Suh’s there, you take him. If not, then it’s Berry. Those are the top two on my board and I’m sure it’s somewhat the same in the team headquarters draft board when it is final. The additions to the defensive line made our line up to par with the average NFL team but adding Suh would make it a strength and when was the last time we had a position of strength?
I’m not saying don’t get Berry and I absolutely agree with you, he should be graded almost the same as Suh but finishing the job on the defensive line not only affects the corners, but also every other guy on that defense. The same can’t be said about a safety as good as Berry is.
Getting a guy like Myron Rolle and taking a chance on him in the later rounds should be the motive as of now. We don’t have as desperate a need their as corner but the corners after recent transactions, seems to be coming along well even though were extremely young at the position.
Point is, I rather pay a STUD DT 2nd overall money to a guy who can affect every aspect of that defense rather than a Safety who’s position isn’t as valuable as Suh’s is. Berry, in my opinion will turn out to be the best of the bunch but you can’t pass up Suh unless a can’t pass up trade down somehow pops up.
www.prosportsdraft.webs.com
Something else Calvin
to help strengthen your point, there is 2 other safeties out there that may damn well be there when we draft in the 2nd round that are not that far below Berry, I think at least. But again I also think that there could be 2 DT’s there when we draft in the 2nd round as well that could play in the rotation just as well.One of these 2 could be there just as easily; Fat Ass from Alabama and Tennessee. I do think you are right thou that we don’t let Suh pass us bye but that does not mean I can’t root and chant for Berry.
How many lumps you want Doc?
+1
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry, Kyle Wilson and Chris Houston - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 10, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
No because everyone is happy with Houston and Wade as our starters at CB and Jim Schwartz himself filling in at SS
And they want 3 starting DTs apparently. Because that’s what they’re saying if they want Suh. We have 0 starting CBs, and 0 starting safeties opposite of Delmas, unless Schwartz comes out of retirement to play beside Louis.
So DrewsLions and the rest of you, what is your fix to this problem if we draft Suh???????
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry and Kyle Wilson - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 8, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Well that wasn't where I thought it'd be placed
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry and Kyle Wilson - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 8, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Supposed to be a sarcastic line below GRLs, sorry everybody
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry and Kyle Wilson - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 8, 2010 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Safetys
You can’t draft a corner that high at 2 and there isn’t any. Berry can be had at 2 and he is my choice after Suh but there are other options at Safety you can draft later. A dominant Defensive Line is better than an all pro Safety. The DTs can make that whole defense play better including a 40 year old Schwartz trotting back their at safety.
www.prosportsdraft.webs.com
Ok lol
And I’ll leave this post at that.
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry and Kyle Wilson - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 8, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
I guess you don't realize that we have...
more than just the #2 overall pick, do you? Look, Berry is great… we get all that. This is multi-pick and multi-year strategy to put all this together. If you think Berry is gonna come in and turn our defense into a top 5 defense this year, you’re sorely mistaken. Suh will not do that either. There are other safeties in this draft and if I’m not mistaken, we drafted a pretty damn good safety last year. Not every defense needs two great safeties back there.
Don’t be in such a damn rush to fill every hole this year. There is no way that we can get every piece to the puzzle this offseason. We will get another safety… whether it be Berry or someone in the later rounds. They’ll find a quick fix in free agency if we can’t.
Yeah, not looking for quick fixes
Looking for solid choices and decisions to lead us into a new realm of Lions football. Picking Suh contradicts our whole defensive philosophy and pertaining to your multi-year, multi-pick strategy — that’s why we SHOULDN’T pick Suh. You see our DT position is filled RIGHT NOW. Is it perfect? No. Is it stable, with the possibility of being above average? Yes. Now ask those same questions with safety. Why would we just completely ignore the position, unless it’s for CB, however, there isn’t a CB in the the top five overall talents in the draft. So unless we trade down and get like Haden or Wilson, I can’t possibly see using a starter pick on a position in which we have two starters.
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry, Kyle Wilson and Chris Houston - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 8, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
Hey Drew
Again not trying to pick a fight here but heres a couple of safeties that did make the world of difference to their teams. Troy P: what happened to that great Steeler D after he got hurt. 2 Sharper are you telling me that he didn’t make that N.O. D better by a ton? Without him they don’t go to the Superbowl last year. And the year before that look at the Cards it wasn’t their front 7 that made that playoff run to the Superbowl it was the play of their safeties and corners, And Warner/Fitz getting off but the D helped get them into the Superbowl that if a amazing catch with no time left wouldn’t have been made the Cards would have won.I’m just stating that a great secondary CAN make a front 7 look better than what they are. And I am not even going to talk about Ed Reed cause that’s just beating a dead horse over the head.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Very good point Davis
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry, Kyle Wilson and Chris Houston - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 10, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
As much as I want Berry
I think we have to draft Kong not Okung, We need to quit calling him Suh, it’s to close to sooooooooooooEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Just saying there is only one thing that people think of when you here the name Kong, and thats King!
Or Donkey
The best there is, The best there was, and the best there ever will be - Bret the Hitman hart
LMFAO...
Cousin just mentioned that the other day that Suh’s nickname should be Donkey Kong or N’dama King Kong… by the way, I promise you all I won’t flip out if the Lions take Suh instead of Berry, I get it – He’s equally as dominant and touted as a future game changer just like Berry. So either way won’t really affect my life too much anyways.
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry and Kyle Wilson - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 7, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
The same way
Berry or Suh I am excited with the pick
The best there is, The best there was, and the best there ever will be - Bret the Hitman hart
I still want to draft Suh and Wilson/Robinson
For the next x-amount of years; Suh next to SLH, and Delmas with Wilson/Robinson in the backfield. Ya gotta love that.
Has anyone read Schwartz comments on this?????
He specifically said in the Freep/Detnews interview about not acquiring more big name free agents that “we FILLED three holes” with those signings. Now to me that sounds like he means we filled DT, DE, and WR needs we had and have closed those holes, meaning a 1st round DT is highly unlikely. Plus, Schwartz and Mayhew have said they are actively shopping this year’s #2 pick so trading down isn’t just balogne. LAst year, they said nothing about actively shopping the #1 pick. They said they would be open to it if a spectacular deal came along, but said the #1 pick was too valuable to get a major piece solved. So I think ya’ll need to step back and think about what is transgressing in front of our eyes – Eric Berry’s arrival, or another DBs arrival. Plus, ALL of the coaches LOVE Kyle Wilson, as was widely known from Senior Bowl comments. And then his and Berry’s combine were as perfect as could be. Berry with a 4.4 and a 43" vert and Wilson’s 25 reps, helped boost them even more.
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry and Kyle Wilson - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 7, 2010 4:30 PM EST reply actions
He is talking FA...not draft picks
Just because the Lions picked up Williams. In no way does the mean Suh is out of the question. Ask any Viking’s fan about the worth of Jimmy Kennedy to that interior d-line. The Lions still need depth at that position. I would not be surprised if they draft another DT in the later rounds.
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
Oh totally agree with later rounds and depth,
but not in the first few rounds, not when we don’t have a starting CB or SS or LG.
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry and Kyle Wilson - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 7, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
How can you read into his comments like that?
Maybe he’s done with the DL in free agency, because he knows he is drafting Suh or McCoy? Ever think of that? I love how everyone reads exactly what THEY WANT to read out of the signing of KVB and Williams. You and GRLion need to go rent a room to have your Eric Berry love-fest.
I hear Berry is hitching a ride on the Kyle Wilson Bus to Deeeetroit City.
Right on Drew. No option has been closed by our FA pick ups. If Mayhew and Schwartz stick with BPA they may still take a DT or DE in the first two rounds depending on how their board shakes out. They could even take a WR at #34 if a really good one dropped. Golden Tate?
We don’t know because we will never see their board. All we are left to do is to listen to their sound bites and interpret them how we want.
Ok man
Read Exactly what I want to read? I’m just sharing with you the main points in articles published in the local news that cover the Lions. What else am I supposed to do? Call Jim Schwartz and Mayhew everyday and hope I’m able to talk to them one day to get their innermost thoughts? Geez dude. I’m pretty much paraphrasing Jim Schwartz’s quotes in these articles, I have nothing else to go on, just like you. Just because I make a more sensible argument than you do, and maybe make fun of your argument in the process a bit, you get all defensive.
So tell me why Suh would be great for Detroit? We have one possible starting CB, and that’s a possible starter remember, as well as no SS. We DO however have TWO starting DTs that fit our framework. So you want to use the highest profile pick between two equally dominant and promising players on the DT? I’m not saying it’s guaranteed we get Berry but I am saying if Schwartz and Mayhew aren’t flip floppers on their philosophy, Berry is our pick most likely. Just because I’m not in the Lions FO, doesn’t mean I can’t evaluate talent and see what fits and doesn’t fit into our system, I’m not completely brain dead you know. And I’m just putting the pieces together as the offseason transgresses. And at this second, our secondary is a bigger concern than DT, BY FAR.
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry and Kyle Wilson - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 7, 2010 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
+1000
but I am saying if Schwartz and Mayhew aren’t flip floppers on their philosophy, Berry is our pick most likely. Just because I’m not in the Lions FO, doesn’t mean I can’t evaluate talent and see what fits and doesn’t fit into our system, I’m not completely brain dead you know. And I’m just putting the pieces together as the offseason transgresses.
100% right.
Schwartz and Mayhew definitely aren’t flip-floppers. They are patient and will stick to their plan, which looks great so far. Like LRA, I take a clear-eyed view of OUR defensive scheme and see it for what it is, not what I want it to be. That leads to intelligent analysis of what FITS and what doesn’t fit. I know who we signed, what they’ve done in the NFL, and how they FIT our defense. We found a great “GIANT DT” starter that fits, a great starting DE, are looking for a starting CB (we need 2), and haven’t found a starting Left Safety. The logical conclusion is that Berry (BPA that FITS) is already penciled in as the pick, and the pieces around him are being filled. The pieces of the puzzle are falling into place. The media lemmings can continue to counter this logic with the OMG Suh! and OMG McCoy! hype……..but that “reasoning” sounds more hollow by the day, and their tone more desperate. Schwartz will do the smart thing, not the hyped thing. The handwriting is on the wall.
Honorary Driver of the Kyle Wilson Bus and Keeper of the Dreadlocks!
The 313 Missile Squadron: Delmas, Berry, Wilson......seek and destroy!
Hey, as long as Zack Follett keeps hitting people, he can rap to Barney the Dinosaur for all I care.
That's why I think Berry is #2 off the board.
And in the 2nd/3rd round of this draft we are going to take another DT,I still think that we are targeting one of two guys to help out at DT(if we even draft one) Alabamas/Tennessee’s DT’s I can see us taking a long hard look at in the middle rounds assuming that they are still there when it’s our turn on the clock. Berry in the first round; Best CB in the second; Guard in third or you could flip flop those two spots pending on BPA at that point. Top 3 picks should go to those 3 positions.
How many lumps you want Doc?
WEll said Davis... well said.
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry and Kyle Wilson - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 8, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Dude, you're like nails on a chalkboard to me...
getting more and more annoying by the day with your “writing on the wall” and “media lemmings” junk. Just because that’s what YOU think the FO will do and how YOU interpret the press snippets, doesn’t mean it’s right, wrong or indifferent. Simply put… it’s your opinion… stop selling it as fact and chastizing those with different, yet equally as reasonable opinions.
You have no more info than the rest of us regarding what they will do at #2. I will be laughing so hard when they take Suh over Eric Berry, only because your constant chirping has left it open for your embarrassment by acting like a know-it-all. You can pitch your opinion and reasoning to any and all willing to listen, but when you start coming off like this, it’s time to give it a rest.
I understand your point of view and it makes a lot of sense, but so does drafting Suh. You can package it anyway you like, but Suh is BPA and Berry is still just a Safety… a point that the FO WILL not overlook. They might take Berry… I’ve always felt that it’s a possibility and would be fine with that… but the only writing on the wall is your crayola scribblings of Gunther’s defensive plays – detailing the “3 technique”.
by DrewsLions on Mar 8, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Drew
That’s funny. True but funny. That’s why I keep saying either one Suh or Berry assuming we don’t trade outta the pick.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Hey Davis...
I actually like Eric Berry… a lot. But I think there is more than one way to go with this pick. For the slot, value and impact… Suh is the best player available. Regardless what GRLion is spewing daily, Suh fits what the Lions want to do defensively. He’s a strong player that will get good push on rushing downs and will be able to show his ability to get to the quarterback on passing downs. He’s a once or twice a decade defensive player.
Also, I would be much more inclined to take Berry if we hadn’t drafted Delmas last year. Not that we don’t need another safety, but it’s a tad more of a luxury. BTW… having Corey Williams does NOT make Suh a luxury. I think many are overselling Williams’ ability.
I tend to agree
I don’t think Berry is a certain for our first pick yet. If we do pick BPA, then there’s every chance that Suh is a top of our board. Possibly even Okung.
The Bringers of Hope: Stafford - Delmas - C. Johnson - Pettigrew - Levy - Hill - Schwartz
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
by Hyperion Ecta on Mar 8, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
So you tell me how Suh makes sense...
when we have zero starting CBs and 0 starting left safeties? Then I will shut up. I can’t speak for GRL, but as for myself. Even with Suh, Houston and Wade are nowhere near starters even with the Vikings if they were there, so barring a surprise trade for 1 of 3 DBs, I think this Suh pick stuff is a load, especially when Eric Berry IS EVERYBIT as deserving as Suh to be BPA on a talent scale alone. You talk about Suh being a once/twice in a decade kind of guy, but what about Berry? Is he not being mentioned in the same breath as Ed Reed? So what makes DT better than Safety? In today’s game, simply put — NOTHING.
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry and Kyle Wilson - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 8, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
BPA
What makes you think the Lions or any other team for that matter has Berry rated higher than Suh? This front office said over and over again they will draft BPA or need and I don’t see any team out their in the top 5 who Berry over Suh and uses the BPA approach.
It’s nothing against Berry. I live in Tennessee. I’ve seen much of his game for couple years now and it continues to amaze me but you can’t pass up Suh. It’s that simple.
www.prosportsdraft.webs.com
***sigh***
Really? C’mon, man. We are picking at the number two overall position. That means a lot of things, but two specifically… 1) we are really, really bad and need help everywhere – not just corner and safety, but EVERYWHERE and 2) that we take the BPA that provides the Lions with VALUE and IMPACT. That’s what Suh does.
This boring rhetoric from you and GRLion is getting very, very stale. The only reason I’m arguing with you is that I happen to really enjoy arguing (and pointless arguments are my forte) and trying to drive home a point that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Berry is not the only way to build this defense. Ndamukong Suh is a very great prospect as well.
Not wrong, just different… Not wrong, just different… Not wrong, just different… Not wrong, just different… Not wrong, just different… Not wrong, just different… Not wrong, just different… Not wrong, just different… Not wrong, just different… Not wrong, just different… Not wrong, just different… Not wrong, just different…
Just repeat until it sinks in. Tell GRLion to join in as well.
That's why I keep going, because you do
And I as well love to argue any and all points. Anyone that knows me knows that. I see you’re getting there too. I like your “boring” little ditty up there too. Because your points are just so original and so much your own words. Except it’s the same thing every “so-called” expert has said. And if you say something like “yeah I’m agreeing with experts, that’s why I’m right,” I might flip. Because these so-called experts have been wrong MANY upon MANY upon MANY times before, probably more wrong than right. (See Tom Brady, Joey Harrington, Charles Rogers, Mike Williams [whom was #1 on Kiper’s board], and so on and so on)
So really, what new are you bringing to this site? Because from what it sounds, it looks like a bunch of talking points from the main stream is it buddy.
You wouldn’t happen to be a Repub would you? That would just be perfect.
I really am just waiting to hear a sensible arguement from you.
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry, Kyle Wilson and Chris Houston - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 9, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
OMFG......(sorry Drew, but LMFAO!!!)
Yes, he is a republican.
Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!
I am just glad that I am not in the "spotlight" on this argument.
I am enjoying being involved…..but a little more from the outside in, than from the center out this time…..:o)
Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!
It just so happen that yes, I am a proud Conservative...
but I think a very, very good idea would be to refrain from politics here…. it’s not the place for that type of thing.
As for me being unoriginal and all that… take a peek through my history here on the site. You’ll find a ton of original material, unique perspectives and articles that were written based on my opinion and research alone. That’s why Sean made me an author on the site (Yeah, check the bottom of the page and you’ll see me listed as the only other person with that status). That’s not for bragging or anything other than saying I’ve contributed to this site a lot over the last few years.
As for this Berry – Suh thing. I’m not simply siding with media. That is completely and utterly ridiculous. It’s just at this juncture I am in agreement that Suh is the best overall player, with Berry a close second. I am not a media lemming, Kiper-lover, McShay fanboy or anything of the sort.
Last year, I was a part of a select few that championed hard for Stafford. I took a ton of heat and criticism because I wouldn’t join the Curry bandwagon. I see you and GRLion doing the same thing with Berry and it pisses me off. Just because someone has a different opinion, doesn’t mean they are wrong. In hindsight, who was right or wrong about Stafford and Curry? Who knows, because Curry will never be a Lion. But watching Stafford play and looking at the bright future he has, was I wrong? Nope. Not at all. So be careful how you point fingers and act like you know it all about this situation. You don’t. I know it and so do you. That pedestal is a long way to fall.
Just to add...
many of the newer faces might not have seen a lot of my content, because I’ve had some opposing forces in my life not allowing me to write many articles on the site lately. Hopefully, I will get more time and be able to write weekly again.
But again… search through my past articles if you want to get a flavor for who I am and what I bring to the table.
I know your work and it's good...
I’ve actually been on here since this time last year, and I was a Curry advocate, however I didn’t care if we got him or Stafford, because either way we weren’t doing shit last year.And you’re right I don’t know it all. But if I can’t take a position that I think is right and try to persuade everone that it’s right, then what is the point of posting at all? I might as well keep my thoughts to myself.
So in hindsight, I’ve gotten a little worked up with all this back and forth, and being in a “altered” state of mind usually when I read your comments back to mine, it’s like “oh man, no he didn’t” probably the same way when you look at mine… (I will say I’ve probably started most of this back and forth, but like you, I love to argue any and all points, so I probably won’t quit with it too much).
As for politics, I won’t start anything with it. Just wanted to get a quick jab in across the aisle in the heat of the moment, ya know without actually saying anything other than asking if you were a republican… lol. I’ll let ya owe me one back for equalization purposes.
Really didn’t mean to call into question your ability to post… and you are probably right about Suh being our pick (that is if Schwartz and Mayhew stick to traditional drafting with the #2 overall pick, you know not breaking the stubborn thought process behind it all), even though I don’t agree with it, but I’ll never say it again.
JF
Louis Delmas, Eric Berry, Kyle Wilson and Chris Houston - 313 Missile Squadron - Seek and Destroy!
Best article/comments on the Lions' Draft Philosophy - READ
by Lions Rant Artist on Mar 9, 2010 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Alright, man.
I’m not getting on you because you have an opinion… I’m getting on you because of the way you’ve made or are trying to make others feel about theirs.
I’m as bull-headed as they come, so if I sniff a challenge, I usually charge. I’m wrong for doing it most of the time. So I apologize for the name-calling (there are probably more posts out there that you haven’t seen where I’ve probably said worse). It IS a football site, so there is going to be some testosterone flying a lot of the time. I just always feel inclined to stick my nose in if I feel someone is bullying or taking over a post (or many posts). I can take it, but some here can’t or they may be new and are turned off by the tone of the site. All good here……
lol Drew
And again I would be happy as hell if we drafted either of those 2, cause we can both see that there is other talent at those 2 positions that should be there when our Lions draft in the second round. It’s just what does the FO want more? the second coming of the Williams wall or the second coming of Bennie Blades and William White. I do beleave that one of these 2 are going to be our mark at the 2 spot and that McCoy and Okung are more hype than what they play as. If Okung would have been in last years draft as a senior I don’t think he would have been one of the first 3 LT’s taken but that’s just my screwy opinion. I still would have taken Oher first if this was last year, as Tackle that is.I still am hoping that we can get Sharper in here before draft so that Kong would be a lock since I really can’t see ST.Louis taking a 3rd or 4th DT in consectutive years.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Drew
You are an awesome writer, and obviously an intelligent person….even in you are a right wing fascist reactionary……kidding…..LOL!
LRA….AKA Lions Rant Artist…..you seem to share many of my opinions, and I think you know how to make an argument and back it up well. It would be great if you were less of a left wing progressive socialistic anarchist…..;o)
I too am a democrat by nature…..however, I share many views of the republican party (such as the facts that I like guns and hate the idea of 100% freedom to choose abortion (my Dad was adopted, and would I be here if he were aborted?)) I would call myself a middle of the road liberal….I like change and movement, but I can also see the value of order.
If my political views have ever shaped my football views, I am unaware of it. I want stability in my football team, yet I want management that thinks outside of the box and is not afraid to change it up if necessary. I understand the heat of the moment shot to the ribs on Drew, and I laughed because you could not have known he was a conservative (outside of speculation). I can easily admit I was wrong about Stafford, and I love that I was wrong. I can’t say I was wrong about Curry, as Drew aptly pointed out. I have said that I want Suh if he is there at pick 2, but I have also championed Berry…..because I really think either player would be a great (and equal) addition to our team, and both will be impact players.
Anyway, I am entertained by you guys here. This year I am on the “Suh or Berry” bandwagon, and I hope that we do not pick anyone else unless we trade down. If we do, all I can hope is that Gerald McCoy or Russell Okung can prove me wrong like Stafford did….always a Lions fan, no matter what! That’s the moral of the story here for me….we are all on the same side, and we all want the same thing…..to see the Lions win a Superbowl. That said, we all have our moments….and I most certainly have no room to claim perfection….lol. I think we can all agree to disagree on stalemate arguments like Suh vs Berry at pick 2, without going for the throat and taking the immature route.
Now, shake hands and let’s talk about something new…..lol.
GO LIONS!
Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!
First line was supposed to say "even though"
Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!
I am a right-wing fascist... lol
I agree this has become a bit of a stalemate. All I really want is for LRA and GRLion to admit that Berry is not the only option that will work out for the Lions (LRA actually did admit it… so 1 out of 2 ain’t bad). I just get very frustrated by those immovable stances… makes no sense to me.
Also… and I think you know this, KDawg… I love me a good argument. I might look for them all too often. As long as the other side keeps churning out comments, I rarely want to concede… damn German stubbornness…. :o)
Hopefully, people have seen enough of my posts to know that most of my stuff is very tongue-in-cheek and good-natured and not overly combative. But you and I both know how that can go!
ha...someone knows alittle German...; )
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
well that is all you need to know nowadays in Germany
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
lmao
you guys kill me. I really missed you all here for that couple of months.
How many lumps you want Doc?
you were missed as well
I gave you couple of shout outs in some of my fan posts
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
I learned this in 3rd grade.....and sang it, in German, for a play.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
wie treu sind deine Blätter!
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
wie treu sind deine Blätter!
Du grünst nicht nur zur Sommerzeit, Nein auch im Winter, wenn es schneit.
O Tannenbaum, o Tannenbaum,
wie treu sind deine Blätter!
I also took two German classes in High School…..so I know a little too. I also learned the good old German beer drinking song “Schnitzelbank” in HS….our class used to sing it so loud that the teacher in the next class would shake his head and laugh….lol. JA DAS IST EINE SCNITZELBANK! HEY!
Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!
It is spelled" Haufenmist"
it is slang for pile of shit
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
thats pretty cool I have not heard that one
How old was your teacher. Because I dont quite understand
Schnitzelbank
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
Schnitzelbank
Is a “carving bench” or “drawing horse”. Maybe it would be better if you read it schnitzel bank?
Here’s a link (apparently this poster is/was famous at one time):
http://www.schnitzelbank.com/poster.htm
Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!
btw.....
The lyrics spell it Hauffenmist…..and it is a pile of cow manure.
Oh you didn't know?? You're ass better CALLLLLLLL SOMEBODY!!!!!
Ahh...the website makes sense.
Different dialect then I am use to. Old Bavarian. Similar to Queen’s English v. American English. The way i spell carving bench is schnitzenbench. With a"en" not the “el”
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
No, I don't think so
I still believe Schwartz is going BPA. If Suh is on top of the board, we’ll pick him. It’s that simple.
The Bringers of Hope: Stafford - Delmas - C. Johnson - Pettigrew - Levy - Hill - Schwartz
Zack Follett: he will hurt your mind.
not if tb gives lions thier 1rd and both of their 2rd picks in this draft think want you could do in this draft you could draft 2cbs and a ss/ot in the 2rd . you still have 3rd/4rd picks to get rb/g help then pick bpa for 5rd/6rd /7rd picks that is the only way you trade dowen in this draft if you are lions .
Patience
We can’t fix everything in one offseason, and can’t fix everything in the 1st Round.
From above:
1. The D line help we got is 30 years old. They are trying to build a team for the future, not plug in a couple pieces for a playoff run. With that in mind, they DID NOT solve our D line issues in FA. We still have a big need for young help on the line.
Do you not like Kyle Vandenbosch (31) and Corey Williams (29)? They are quality players who can help us for 5 years and also provide experience and leadership. Are we going to not sign players over the age of 25? Is this Logan’s Run? If you don’t want Vandenbosch and Williams, we can always send them back. Is that what you want? You don’t have faith that the Schwartz can make us a Super Bowl contender in less than 5 years? I believe in Schwartz. I believe in Mayhew. They just got us some quality players that FIT, and will get us some more. They’’ll get the right player who FITS, not the wrong one.
Honorary Driver of the Kyle Wilson Bus and Keeper of the Dreadlocks!
The 313 Missile Squadron: Delmas, Berry, Wilson......seek and destroy!
Hey, as long as Zack Follett keeps hitting people, he can rap to Barney the Dinosaur for all I care.
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