Grade Jim Schwartz - September 2010
by Sean Yuille on Sep 20, 2010 2:05 PM EDT
in Detroit Lions Polls
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PrintWe are two weeks into the 2010 NFL season. Although you can only learn so much from two games, especially when those two games were missing Matthew Stafford for all but one half, I think we have learned a lot about the Lions and their coaches. Sure, we will learn a lot more in the coming weeks, but I think now is a good time to see where everyone stands in relation to the Lions' head coach, offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator.
Today, we will grade Lions head coach Jim Schwartz. The last time we graded Schwartz was in July and he received a pretty even split of votes for both an A and B. Some gave him a C, although it was a definite minority.
Previously, I gave Schwartz an A for what he has done with the Lions so far. This time around, however, I'm dropping him down a letter to a B. While the Lions have faced some serious adversity this season with Stafford's injury and the bad call and could easily be 2-0, the fact of the matter is they're 0-2. While I am encouraged by the progress I am seeing with some parts of the team, this time around I decided to hold off on giving Schwartz the highest grade until wins start happening. At the end of the day, wins are all that matter, and while moral victories are fine every so often, I'm getting tired of them personally.
What do you guys think?
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Schwartz = B, Linehan = F
The offensive playcalling has been all kinds of sketchy… not sure how you can fix the problem though outside of canning Linehan, which seems like it would be very premature if it was done now. I just hope we see improvement in that area.
everyone thought it was bad in the first game because they just couldn’t run, so the deep passes were taken away. In the 2nd game, they put up 32 points with a backup QB on a good defense.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Again...
the only reason our offense did so well is because of Jahvid Best, and nothing more. Not sure how that’s so hard for people to comprehend.
so it’s the coaches’ fault for hill sucking, but they get no credit for guys like best and pettigrew tearing it up?
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Pettigrew did also beast the shit out of the Eagles too.
Look, Hill has a noodle arm and can’t make tough throws, so our offense is stuck checking down and throwing short passes until Stafford gets back. That’s what’s wrong with our offense and that’s why we couldn’t run the ball in the second half. The Eagles saw that Hill couldn’t couldn’t do anything except check it down so they loaded the box and blitzed the rest of the game.
I would be OK
if the goatee weren’t white . . .
by Lions-fan-SLC on Sep 20, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Schwartz = A
A because we are better
Linehan gets a D – yesterday was better than Chicago
Gunther gets an MF F because that defense has no idea what to do
HUH???
I can’t believe how you can give the ‘shift managers a D and F’, while giving the HGIC an A.
Unbelievable.
I like schwartz
I think KVB is an excellent add to this team. I think we don’t get KVB without him. There needs to be leadership on the field too – KVB does that. Suh and SLH are better because of them.
schwartz needs to fire gunther if the defense doesn’t figure it out though.
this team sucked when he got it, and it sucks slightly less now.
by redwingxviii on Sep 20, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
So sucking slightly less is = to greatness?
That is what an A means and unless I’m mistaken sucking slightly less than absolutely terrible (0-16) is not greatness,
grading is relative and subjective
Lions as a historical franchise = F
If they win a super bowl, how are they as a franchise? Certainly no better than a D. Maybe still an F.
I like what Schwartz is bringing to the table. They are improving.
by redwingxviii on Sep 20, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
so a team with very little defensive talent is reason to fire the defensive coordinator? He dialed up the blitz yesterday and it worked. They got to vick. The problem was that vick just eluded the poor defensive players. The scheme isn’t the problem.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
watch Favre put up 400
then tell me it’s not the scheme.
you didn’t watch closely if you couldn’t tell houston was lost out there. safeties are late. follett can’t cover anyone.
how many yards did vick throw for?
by redwingxviii on Sep 20, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
QBs FREQUENTLY have a rating over 100 against us
isn’t the season record like 108?
EVERY qb is rated better than that against the lions. it’s ridiculous.
might it be simply talent? sure
but if it’s not the scheme, it’s because the players can’t execute the scheme, and maybe we should try something these dumb @sses understand.
by redwingxviii on Sep 20, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
friendly bet my friend
i’ll stick the over/under on favre yardages at 350. i’m a lions fan, don’t get my wrong, i just f’n hate our secondary because they are too freaking dumb.
by redwingxviii on Sep 20, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
How much more do people have to see before they realize this D
is still epically terrible. All last year, Qbs put up numbers like they were pro bowlers. This year after two games nothing has changed. We make crappy QBs look borderline great and good to great QBs look like hall of fame players.
That said, every team in the league knows our weakness and will go after it until we do something about it. Short drops with quick passes = 100+ QB rating and a butt load of yards. Put those two together and more often than not, you are going to win.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
100% agree
it’s still an unreal terrible D.
but the D-line is much improved, so they are probably 4 players better on D.
7 more to go. give it a few more years.
by redwingxviii on Sep 20, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
a few more years!
Holy hell, any one of us could be dead in a few more years. Walk out into the street and get cleaned by a bus.
If i have to watch this crap another few years i am going to go nuclear.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
As pointed out in the other thread
We are better off than you guys realize in the back 7. I am not sold on Follett being horrible in two games. He is greatly improved in coverage over the preseason and almost picked off Vick. I agree J. P. needs to step up or step out. He is sucking it up big time. Levy gets healthy then we are solid at MLB again.
The Phonz is looking ok at nickle, and Delmas surely does not need to be replaced. I also think Wade is playing solid for a number 2 corner. C. C. will lose his job to Phillips by the end of the year and Spievey is still in the mix back there too. I am not concerned about the safety position long term.
All we really need is a and OLB or two if Follett don’t work out and a shutdown corner.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
I agree to a degree Smurf
I think that Follett is going to be a keeper and this coming from a guy who thought of every reason to why the Lions need to sign a vet. I like what i have seen from Follett thus far, the kid keeps getting better with every play.
JP really needs to step it up and i believe he will and having Levy back in the rotation will make the LB corp better by far and we will start to see glimpse of greatness from Levy and i believe Follett with JP returning to the player we know he canbe.
As for the secondary, can’t complain alot about what there doing right now. I think they could have done better against Philly’s wr’s but alot of those plays were only possible b/c of Vick. Delmas enough said, as for Houston and Wade i think they continue to grow each week. Smith is looking okay at the nickle and will get more comfortable as the weeks pass. CC Brown didn’t to much care for the guy but he has been playing good ball and doing a good job of holding off Spievey and Phillips thus far.
Detroit will beat the Viks this weekend and i think it will be a closer game than most would think when we face off w the Packers. This team continues to get better each week, w players like Follett, Houston, Wade, Smith, CC, Spievey and Phillips growning as the year goes on. The offense is starting to click under Hill and when it gets going will be hard to slow down, there have been some suspect play calling but it will get better.
Can we stop talking about releasing Smitty and Hanson now....
Wait a minute
Go back to what you said yourself….safeties are late, follett cant cover anyone, houston looked lost. That tells me its the players, not the coaches. Also notice how you’re mentioning players that only starting because they are the only players we have on the roster…its not the scheme, its the talent, and the talent is getting progressively better.
Look at it this way, we let a bears team score 19 pts on us, and they went on the road and put up 27 against a Cowboys defense thats suppose to be an elite defense. Our defense has take a significant stride toward the positive, firing the DC means we take a step backward, change the scheme now, and you have no chance of winning for at least the next five years
The beginning of the end of the misery
honestly i can't believe you say the blitz worked
so laughable. maybe you were watching the steelers or chargers.
by redwingxviii on Sep 20, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
how many sacks, hits, and near sacks did we get on vick? a ton, and that’s why I say the blitz worked. A less mobile QB would have been destroyed over and over. He was getting all the time in the world before they started to blitz and he was contained relatively well on the ground, especially considering his past.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
The blitz did work, and for that matter
We played the bears tougher than the Dallas D, and we played the Eagles tougher than the Packers D. If Kolb was in we would have won that game. What we did against Vick for a hole game was far better than what the Packers did against him in a half. If they would have played Vick the whole game the Eagles would be 2-0 and they would have upset a perennial super bowl favorite.
It is not nearly as bad as you are making it out.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Totally agree with you guys on this.
Yes we are still taking BAD penalties, and I don’t care what secondery you are talking about, when Vick breaks the pocket and is doing his thing there are going to be guys open. I like our backfield;for now; but like I said during pre-season, we are horrible in 1 area on D and that is at LB. We have Peterson and that’s it! And when you are 1 guy trying to play for 3, bad things happen. Now a top-notched shut down corner would be sweet in the next draft, but I think we are going to finally replace backus with our first round pick next year.Then again it will depend on where we draft and who the best available player is at that point since this FO has proven that position does not matter but the best player does!
How many lumps you want Doc?
transitive theory doesn't necessarily apply
1) you’re implying that the lions defense is better than the cowboys. want to bet which team gives up less points? I’d bet my life we give up more than 400 points this year. Could it hit 500 again?
2) to the guy that says “you’re only naming players” – seriously dude? did you want me to say that cunningham was late on every play? now which person is responsible for putting the players in a position to succeed? i’ll just ask the question – do the lions have the personnel to run Cover 2? sure, we can argue that they don’t have the personnel to run ANY scheme, but then we’re still just waiting. well, either way, we’re a few years away.
3) “The blitz did work! We only gave up 35 to the eagles! Last year it would have been 55!” If that’s your argument, fine, you win. Btw, this team still can’t tackle. I’ll put that one on the players though.
In sum, this defense sucks, the Bears steamrolled us but fumbled “+100” times and scored less than they should have. The Eagles and their QB that “couldn’t pass very well before prison” came out and had a huge game against us.
It might solely be the players, but I can’t help but wonder if a different scheme would at least appear more palatable.
by redwingxviii on Sep 21, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, give it a rest man
Go find the “Let’s bash the Lions” blog out there somewhere. I just can’t figure out why someone would spend his time on here trying to prove out the theory that the Lions suck. What am I missing here?
We get your points, but most of us here like to try dwell on the positive things happening and talk about the steady progress. If you don’t… fine. Just don’t look for people to agree with you or not get sick of your incessant negativity. A little back-and-forth banter is good. Beating a dead horse is not. We get your point… move on.
by DrewsLions on Sep 21, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
do i get “minus 100?” for asking if our secondary scheme is no good?
by redwingxviii on Sep 21, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Think about it...
You are on a Lions blog with Lions fans trying to pound home the point that the Lions are terrible.
You get a minus one million for being too stubborn or dumb to realize that….
that means i'm at -1,000,001
can i recover?
i run a lions bar in new york city. do i get points for that? i watch every game. I’m going to GB in 2 weeks. Anything?
If we’re going to sit around and talk about how good we are, we might as well be UM fans. “Well UMass got lucky”
jesus christ.
i’m supportive of the lions – i just want to know if our secondary could suck less this year. probably not. maybe in 2 years.
by redwingxviii on Sep 21, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Did you think the secondary was going to be great this year?
It sounds like your expectation were a little high. I knew that they were likely to be a liability, so maybe my expectations were held in check a little better.
Look, there was no way we were going to fill all the holes this past offseason… none. They did a great job of putting together a nice defensive line, brought in Scheffler, Burleson, Best and Sims offensively. They filled holes as best as they could in the secondary. Honestly, what more do you expect?
They will end up turning over 95% of this roster in two years. That is unheard of. Take a second and let that set in. Yeah… that’s what Schwartz and Mayhew were up against. All things considered… I think we on the right track.
100% agree with "on the right track" and other things
i knew they were going to be a liability and i knew we were going to lose more than we win.
i agree that everyone did a great job in the offseason.
i agree that there is more turnover to come. We are now a good college team – two years ago we were an ok high school team.
very pleased with the direction.
i just don’t think i expected to see cluelessness from some guys in the secondary. that’s my only complaint. getting beat on talent is one thing. getting beat because you don’t know what to do really sucks, in my opinion.
that’s all.
by redwingxviii on Sep 21, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I think talent isn’t always in terms of physical ability. We don’t have talented cornerbacks. They may be able to run with a wide receiver, but maybe they lack talent in understanding schemes or staying disciplined in their assignments. That’s kind of what I see you guys disagreeing about. I think talent is just an all-encompassing term. If we have talent, they’ll perform well and if they don’t have talent, they won’t.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
I think "cluelessness" is a little bit exaggerated
There are guys like C.C. Brown who have a little history of being out of place. He’s made some good plays and a few bad plays. All of these guys outside of Delmas are new to the team. It’ll take some adjustment, but overall, it’s just going to take a talent upgrade.
Next year, they can focus on the back seven defensively. I look at next year to be a defining one for the Lions… not this year.
And injuries to key starters means what????
As I recall Berry was 1 of our starters because Wade is still nursing a broke hand. He goes down in game 1. Delmas is still nursing a groin, and playing his ass off. We start the year off without our starting ILB, and we have a rookie trying to play next to Preditor at S. Yeah we are going to give up a lot of eazy passes, but once Wade get’s back into shape and Houston and Delmas have that trust in each other from playing together it will be different.Not shut down different; but a lot much better.
How many lumps you want Doc?
wasn't berry an undrafted rookie?
injuries to undrafted rookies is something less than losing key starters.
i don’t agree that cluelessness is an exaggeration, but points taken, maybe this group will improve. maybe they’ll be shipped out in two years.
by redwingxviii on Sep 21, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
It sounds like your expectation were a little high.
Yup, unrealistic expectations are premeditated resentments.
Don't sing it unless you can bring it!
He was wrong with that comment and so are you
I thought going in we would win 4-6 games max this year.
IMHO, you can not let a game like the Chicago one slip away. Like it or not, Chicago tried everything they could to lose that game (unintentional? yes) and we could not make them pay for it.
In order to win 4+ games in a season, this team has to find a way to take advantage of what is given to them.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
Wrong? No... just said from our perspective of your comments.
You’re comments seem to indicate you expected a lot of wins, but you say that you only expected 4-6. It’s kind of an oxymoron. That’s why people can’t really peg where you’re coming from.
thats ok
I am a complex guy. Understanding is not expected from everyone?!
yes, that was laced with sarcasm and hopefully some fun too.
BTW, wrong was too strong a word. I should have said, misinformed.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
I gave him a big fat D
Moral victories be damned. I want a friggin win. We are on a 2 and 32 run right now and he is on a 2 and 16 run as a coach. I knew going into this season, the wins would be rare as I predicted a 4-6 win season but damn. This secondary is going to kill us all season. We have given up over 900 yards so far this season spanning two games. Just typing that makes my blood boil.
Yeah, he does not have a ton of talent back there in the secondary but a coach has to find a way to win with what he is given. At the end of the day it all falls on the Head Coaches shoulders and that is where I am at with this team right now.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
That sounds great, but it's not reality.
Put the great Bill Walsh on this team right now and he struggles. Is Bill Walsh a “D” caliber coach? No… he’s a great coach. Schwartz is a good coach. He’s learning to be a good Head Coach. Give him some time. He’s only in his second year.
We are better today then yesterday… that’s my barometer. If you predicted 10 wins and are disappointed in an 0-2 start, then maybe you set the bar a little high for a team coming off 14 losses. This whole “is he a good coach thing” has got to be taken in context and the context here is that Schwartz inherited the worst team in the history of the NFL. Right?
This is reality for me as a fan of the Detroit Lions, I want a win.
Chicago all but handed us that game and we still managed to lose it, albeit on a technicality.
The only reason we were even able to make a late rally against the Eagles, and this is cut and dry, is because they backed off and started playing a deep zone to chew up the clock and prevent any fast TDs. If they had not backed off the final score could have been much more lopsided.
So, after two games, I see this. A team that can’t win a game when it is basically served up for them on a silver platter one week and a team that was getting smoked until the other team woke up and started playing real football. Once they were comfortable with their advantage they sat back and played safe.
The reason there is no consistency on offense or defense? Because Decent teams do not have to give it their all for a complete game to beat us. Sounds a ton like last year, don’t it?
That, in my mind, falls directly on the head coach’s shoulders. Giving any coach, no matter the situation, any passing grade when his record is 2-16 is just not being honest to the coach or yourself.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
We did get a win.
Week 1 and we did way better against the Bears than the Cowboys did, at Chicago in their home opener.
Again, the bears tried with all their stupidity and clumsiness to give us that game. With all those turnovers, any respectable team would have won that game easily.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
so turnovers are always luck and are never forced?
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Sure some are forced. Sure some are luck
If you watched that game you know what I mean. They racked 460 yards of offense on us. If not for all that charity with the ball, we would have been in serious trouble that game.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
You can't just take stuff out of the game and say...
yeah, but without this and that, we would have gotten killed. They did move the ball, but we kept them from scoring on a lot of those drives. Yards ultimately mean nothing unless there are points attached. Defensively, we were very aggressive and caused turnovers. Don’t take that away from them. You seem very determined to show how badly the Lions played.
160 yards on offense and 460 given on defense. How did they play anything but bad? Brief moments of stellar play do not make an over all game.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
So the Bears played well?
C’mon man. You are most certainly not giving credit where it is due. You are choosing to focus solely on the elements of the game that supports you’re “Lions suck this year and so does Schwartz” argument here… which frankly I don’t understand why you are so adamantly defending.
Don’t talk about the pressure and turnovers. Don’t talk about losing Stafford. Don’t talk about having the lead and Jahvid scoring twice before Stafford went down. Don’t talk about the goalline stand. Don’t talk about the short field that the Bears had and we continuously stopped most of the afternoon. Give a little credit. The score was 19-14… not 44-3.
Funny that you only come back when the comment suits you.
Where was your snarky retort to this?
Too much logic = end of discussion
was that intended for me Drew?
if that was in reference to my stopping posting last night. I closed my store and went out for a beer.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
The bears offense moved the ball, we didn’t (460-160)
The bears defense stopped us, we did not stop them.
That is the type of game that 3/4 of the league would have won if they were playing instead of the Lions. It was a typical first week game. Ugly, sloppy and frankly full of mistakes on both sides.
Lets be clear about something else here, the Lions do suck as a team. Their record at the end of the year will show that. That will never change how i feel about them.
Where you got me saying Schwartz suck, I have no idea. I gave him a Grade of D because his record as the Lions head coach is 2-16 and this season is 0-2.
I think he has the making of a above average to maybe great head coach. Time will tell.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
we actually did stop the bears, quite a few times, including 4 straight times from the 1 yard line. The problem with that game was the offense struggling horribly and giving the defense bad field position.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Oh yes
I did not get the D line props for the goal line stand. That was impressive.
As i have said before, one moment of excellence does not make a whole game.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
the entire 2nd half, the bears had a short field because of the 3 and outs from the offense.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
that short field
is just reinforcing what I am talking about.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
a short field does not reinforce the statement that we did not stop the bears. We repeatedly stopped them, despite offensive struggles
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Recovery of a fumble, despite being the product of hard work, is almost entirely random.
From football outsiders: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/FO-basics
Stripping the ball is a skill. Holding onto the ball is a skill. Pouncing on the ball as it is bouncing all over the place is not a skill. There is no correlation whatsoever between the percentage of fumbles recovered by a team in one year and the percentage they recover in the next year. The odds of recovery are based solely on the type of play involved, not the teams or any of their players.
Fans like to insist that specific coaches can teach their teams to recover more fumbles by swarming to the ball. Chicago’s Lovie Smith, in particular, is supposed to have this ability. However, since Smith took over the Bears, their rate of fumble recovery on defense went from a league-best 76 percent to a league-worst 33 percent in 2005, then back to 67 percent in 2006. Last year, they recovered 57 percent of fumbles, close to the league average.
Fumble recovery is equally erratic on offense. In 2008, the Bears fumbled 12 times on offense and recovered only three of them. In 2009, the Bears fumbled 18 times on offense, but recovered 13 of them.
Fumble recovery is a major reason why the general public overestimates or underestimates certain teams. Fumbles are huge, turning-point plays that dramatically impact wins and losses in the past, while fumble recovery percentage says absolutely nothing about a team’s chances of winning games in the future. With this in mind, Football Outsiders stats treat all fumbles as equal, penalizing them based on the likelihood of each type of fumble (run, pass, sack, etc.) being recovered by the defense.
Other plays that qualify as “non-predictive events” include blocked kicks and touchdowns during turnover returns. These plays are not “lucky,” per se, but they have no value whatsoever for predicting future performance.
by redwingxviii on Sep 21, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
That may be true, but a team that forces 10 fumbles will tend to recover around 5, where a team that forces 4 will tend to recover around 2. Once the ball is on the ground, it’s a free for all, but forcing the ball to get on the ground is a skill.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
i just think it's fair to say the secondary gave up a lot of yards
a better lions team in the future will give up less yards, and maybe if they are still good at “forcing fumbles,” our offense will get the ball with great field position.
by redwingxviii on Sep 21, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll agree with that. It’s entirely true. But you can’t just not look at the turnovers and only look at the yards. It’s all a part of what happened on game day. I’m just saying that turnovers aren’t completely attributable to luck so they need to be taken into account.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Okay, you're entitled to that, but...
I just think that you do not understand the shape of this roster and the uphill challenge Schwartz has had.
Put yourself in his shoes. You take a job as a manager and inherit the worst crew in the history of your company… nix that… the worst crew in the history of your trade. You work your ass off to bring in the right crew members and implement your best work practices to improve your company. After a year, you have a mostly new crew that is learning the processes and systems. It’s a struggle, but you see the bright future. Then your boss comes in and says, “Not enough progress… you’re canned.” Fair? Remember… keep it in context. With what you had to work with and the timeframe… is that a fair assessment?
Results
the bottom line is results, in any business. I have my own small business that I started just 9 short months ago in this terrible economy. Do you think my investors care that the economy is terrible? Not a chance, I have been aggressive and have managed 2 two profitable months of the 9. In any economy that is unheard of for a small business.
Results are what matters with what you are given and so far, 2-16 is not enough. Sorry. Until he starts winning, his grade is a D at best.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
So you see no progress from last year to this year?
shakes head
Whatever, man. I’ll try not to spill my half-full cup…..
No frankly I do not
Other than a D line that is nasty, not a single thing is different. Relative to that D line, easy enough to circumvent, short drops and fast passes.
Our defense allowed 391 yards per game last year. This year we are some where around 436 a game so far. We are right on pace to end up last in Defense yet again this year.
Last year our offense averaged 299 yards per game, this year so far, 306. We scored 262 points all season for an average of 16.4 points a game. This year we have scored 46 with an average of 23 per game.
I love my Kool-aid as much as the next guy. Believe me I do but I am not going to sit here and lie to myself blowing rainbows and sunshine from my rear.
I know it will take time but that does not change my basic beliefs.
Chicago tried with everything in their three stooges routine to hand us that first game and we still fell short. The Eagles game was no where near as close as the score indicated. They let us back into that game and by the time they had realized it, we were taking possession of an onside kick. They then went right back to pressure defense and everything crumbled.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
I'm not just spewing feel-good crap all day long either, but...
I don’t think it’s quite as bad as you’re painting it. We all knew that the secondary was going to leak… did we not? I did, at least. I see progress in a lot of areas. Quarterback, running back, defensive line, special teams… no progress there? I think so. Secondary is about a wash and the offensive line is slightly better. That’s progress to me….
jeez
You say you run a small business, then you should know not to take two day’s worth of sales and let that speak for the whole month, especially when those two days were weekdays.
In the same manner, its pointless to look at the stats after two games, and if you’re gonna look at the numbers, at least consider who you were facing and what shape this team faced those opponents in. The yard numbers look bad, no doubt, but we went up against two teams that are known for ammasing big yardage. You said it yourself, we’re averaging 23 points with our backup QB in there, and we went up against two very solid defenses.
I understand you saying results matter, but again as a businessman, you should, more than many people, understand that it takes time to develop a product, whether it is a football team or a business. An 0-16 team isn’t going to turn into a playoff team in one season and 2 games, so if that’s you’re standard of what a coach should be able to do, then Al Davis is your best friend
The beginning of the end of the misery
I never once mentioned playoffs
I said I have not seen improvements that are needed to win games and I want to see a damn win. I have posted stats all over this thread. I am not going over it all again.
Bottom line, Schwartz’s record this year 0-2 and career with the Lions 2-16 says all i need to know about his grade at this point in time. A solid D that would be an F if not for the team he inherited.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
you know
at one point in his career, jimmy johnson was 1-15. Damn, Jerry Jones should’ve fired him cause he could win games with a NCAA roster.
Same with Schwartz. He has had his team prepared against two very solid teams and IMHO he gets a free pass until Stafford comes back. There is talent on offense, but not enough to outgun teams like Philly, Queens, and Gaints.
Don’t worry my man, we will get wins…at least 5 or 6 this season
The beginning of the end of the misery
I also never mentioned anything relating to fire Schwartz
Just said he gets a crappy grade until he starts winning.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
So guilty until proven innocent in this case?
You’re saying he starts at an F and has to earn his way to an A? That’s an interesting way to look at it.
nope, he started with no grade
and has earned himself a D
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
You're something... really.
Here’s a piece of shit… turn it into a gold brick. By the way, you have 1 year to do it in.
Let me ask you this…. say Hill connects with Johnson at the end of both games. We’re 2-0 right now. What grade do you give him?
Better than a D
because he found a way to win. The final measure of a head coach.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
So two plays by the back-up quarterback and Johnson and...
that makes Schwartz a better coach? Because of two hail marys that connected instead of failed? See… that makes no sense and destroys your argument. It has nothing to do with coaching. Absolutely nothing.
It has everything to do with coaching
As the head coach, you only job is to win. If you win you are rewarded. If you lose you are not. The method of winning does not matter in most circumstances.
BTW, the hypothetical two hail marys senario for wins is no different than me saying without all those timely turnovers, the bears would have put up a ton more points.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
No, this is a hypothetical scenario not...
taking away real plays from a real game.
As for your point about winning and all that… hilarious. So Hill chucks up a prayer of a pass and Calvin catches it (which he did anyway) and Schwartz is a better coach because they win? Ha! That is brilliant. Honestly man, I’m trying to be nice here but that just makes absolutely no sense to me.
Did Schwartz run out to the huddle and coach Hill how to pray before chucking the ball? Okay, just to be sure I have this straight…. Catch = great coach. No Catch = “D” coach. Did I capture that correctly…. lol. Get serious…..
why?
Do you bother following the rosters, plays, and even game for that matter if all that matters is wins. If wins is indeed the only measure of his success you’re wasting a lot of other time I’m afraid.
Have some patience, you really can’t expect things to just turn around so fast. Can’t you see any measures of progress here?
They say some people never go crazy.... what a boring life that must be!!
Let's see
You lose your QB in the first half of the first game and get screwed by the REF’s for 1 loss. You lose your #2 WR on the first drive of the second game and still almost win and this guy is giving out a D rating. Yeah I just don’t agree with you Josh. In the 2 drafts that these guys have had let’s see what they have done! OK you now have a legit QB a RB that is looking like a Pro-bowler in his rookie year, you now have 2 real WR’s a (looking better) TE in Grew, and you have sured up the most pathetic F-line in Football to at least make them respectable. On D in 2 years you have not done as much cause we have spent most of our draft picks on the other side of the ball.But even with that we have landed 1 of the baddest young S’s in the game in Delmas, you have turned over the WORST D-line into a front 4 that is already being feared by other teams. And in those 2 drafts you have landed what is looking like at least 2 candidates for rookie of the year in Best and SUH. And let’s face it Delmas could have got that reward last year if he would have “juiced” it up. No I’m affraid that Coach deserves at least a B!
How many lumps you want Doc?
Before the season, I'd agree with you.
However….
Shit happens in the NFL…
Poor halftime adjustments and lack of clock management cause a loss in the first game.
In the second game, again… poor 3rd quarter adjustments both offense and defense lost the lead…. poor 3rd and 1/4th and 1 decisions killed a chance for a comeback.
Bottom line, the coaching/game plans and game time adjustments contributed to the now 0-2 record.
To date, a B is a mushy ’that’s okay’ grade.
Schwartz and Co will need vast improvement in THEIR game planning and adjustments to deserve a B.
I can’t see how the first game had poor clock management. The lions got the ball into CJ’s hands in the endzone to win the game. That’s it. Poor offense and field position all day was the real story of it.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
SO CLF
You and a few others here keep dwelling on 1 drive, why? How about let’s talk about the very first drive of the game when we were in Hansons range and Hill tossed that INT in the endzone. How are you guys that keep dwelling on that 1 series not bringing that opening drive into the equasion? Look for the past 10 coaches or so in Detroit we have had the most scared play callers in the damn game. 4th and 1 = PUNT. I for 1 am very excited that we are trying to WIN games instead of playing for freakin ties at home. As I see it you have the home field advantage the momentum why the hell not try and cram the ball down the other teams throughts. If these guys are calling for us to go for it on 4th down most of the season ESP when we are on their side of the field I am all for it!
How many lumps you want Doc?
Nope...
Its just an example.
Look if all you want to talk about is positive, feel good moments…
Then all I"m gonna talk about are the bonehead, debbie downer realities.
Sorry, its in my nature.
:)
Sunshine and rainbows
If you post an opinion contrary to anything positive. You get lambasted. God forbid you actually have an opinion of your own.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
That's not it at all Josh
but after reading yours and REDWINGs posts you would think that this team is heading right down the 0-16 road again. And For all the “rainbows and butterflies” that get’s spewn around here, your Gloom and Doom comments are even worse than the other ones. Most of us beleaved that coming into this year we were not contenders"I’m not 1 of those guys". I beleaved and still do that we can make a push for 9-7 10-6 and be in the mix for a playoff wildcard spot. 2 games does not make a season, and this team is playing with “PRIDE” and attitude;something that has not been seen around here since Barry retired! that comes from the FO and the coaching staff, more than the players.
How many lumps you want Doc?
LOL
10-6 man? c’mon baby!
only thing that matters to me is super bowls man, ultimately at least. Lions are getting better and building towards that. future is brighter than the past. i’m pretty happy with the lions.
so i wouldn’t say it’s “gloom and doom.” maybe a little impatience, but i don’t expect real “contender” status for at least 2 more seasons
by redwingxviii on Sep 21, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm serious REDWING
I thought we had a legit chance at 10-6/9-7 before the season started. I saw us beating these first 2 teams and the Vikes next Sunday. And if injuries wouldn’t have taken Staff away from us we would probably be 2-0. But that’s why you play the games.
How many lumps you want Doc?
would be interesting had staff played both
who knows?
at least i was interested in the 4Q of both games. big improvement!
by redwingxviii on Sep 21, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
well you guys lambaste the positive comments. I don’t see a difference between what either side is doing.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
I see a distinct difference
I have not pointed out any of the flaws in Drews opinion of a grade for Schwartz. he has tons of thoughts on my opinion. That is a huge difference.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
“Giving any coach, no matter the situation, any passing grade when his record is 2-16 is just not being honest to the coach or yourself.”
That’s certainly a criticism of the positive grades people are giving out.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Thank you for reminding me I did say that
Damn, this thread has grown. I apologize for not being entirely right with that statement.
That said, I have done FAR more defending of my own Grade for schwartz than going after others. That seems like a better statement.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
LOL CLF
Don’t change my brother, don’t change. And I’m just still excited because we could very well be 2-0, as compared to years past when we had NO CHANCE of even being in a game, like 2 years ago think TG when after 5 plays we were already down 14 to the Titans.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I have been trying to drink away two years ago
from my memory. How many beers does it take to kill a brain cell?
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
2
You can speed up the process with various chemical ingestion. Ask me a question about the 2008 season, I can prove it can be forgotten!
In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both
Pride of Detroits village idiot
Sorry to butt in late
But are we grading Jim Schwartz or are we grading his performance? If we are grading Schwartz than I understand looking at it from the perspective of where we were to where we are. And some of that factors into performance, but at the end of the day we remains 2-16 as a head coach. If Bill Walsh or even Vince Lombardi were 2-16 I would be grading their performance as harshly as some are grading Schwartz.
In fact, that record would typically guarantee an F grade anywhere else but I still gave Schwartz a C. What is interesting to me is that seems to have considerably more job security than some 2-0 coaches right now (I’m looking at you Lovie Smith) despite an unacceptable record. I agree with him having job security. Compared to Marty Morningsomething he doesn’t appear to be in over his head. There is something being built here and heading into this season I felt the optimistic I have felt in ten years. That counts for something too, just not more than a C in my opinion.
I can't believe I ate the whole thing!
by tigerfaninChicago on Sep 20, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
nice post.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
Linehan
Uh, they scored 32 points!!!! What more can an offensive coordinator do? Escpecially when Calvin disappears for 3 quarters!!! How about Gunny? His D line is a Pitbull, the LB’s and DB’s are poodles. I thought Houston and Wade were supposed to be fast? Schwartz is fine, gave him a B, Linehan B, Gunny D-
We scored 32 points because Best is a beast
and that’s pretty much the only reason.
I haven’t had any issues with Gun’s playcalling, he just doesn’t have the talent. We have what is easily the worst secondary in the league; there isn’t a coach alive that could magically make them not suck with exceptional playcalling. Doesn’t work like that.
Fast has nothing to do with
Sitting in zones all the time, i’m sick of all the zone we play… need more man
Thats what Im sayin! We waste the speed they have by having them stop and sit in zone. I would rather a receiver make a good catch over man than him ten yards behind a zone waltzing to a TD.
by Lions_Heathen on Sep 21, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
B+
I grade him B+ because he has the sense to pull Stafford after an injury that he could’ve played thru. Schwartz has an economics degree and us econ guys are very fond of big picture views. This can still end up being a good season, starting next week at Minnesota. What that d-line is going to do to Grandpa Farve….well, I might not let my kids watch.
B here too
The last couple of weeks have been frustrating. The Lions haven’t gotten clobbered but losing the lead every game has to stop. I was so excited I almost crashed my truck listening to the game when we recovered the onside kick but we have to finish. Whether its talent or play calling, it all falls back on the coach. I’m a JS fan but the Lions have to start winning and I think he would agree.
Lions fan down in LA (lower Alabama)
B
I can’t get over all these people crying for Guny’s head now! We knew going into the season the secondary was deficient. Heck, we knew coming out of last season damn near the whole team was deficient. It takes time so don’t second guess this. Expect nothing this year, period. If things aren’t shaping up much better next season then start crying a bit. if by 2012 season things aren’t crisp start calling for their heads. Until then tho, just try to enjoy the ride and what glimpses at good views we do get.
I will give Linehan a D tho since he’s seemingly failed to bring effective calls to the situations.
They say some people never go crazy.... what a boring life that must be!!
i agree with you about waiting...
but aren’t you shocked at how stupid these MF defensive backs are? they have no clue where to be. i’m not sure if that’s on the coaching or stupidity or lack of athletic ability, but i’m guessing it’s one of the first two.
these guys DON’T UNDERSTAND cover 2
by redwingxviii on Sep 20, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
how much does gunther make?
might be tough, i’m on wall st.
i’m just mad at how dumb these defensive backs are. it might be that they don’t have talent, but i’m telling you, these guys are freaking clueless. they might be talentless and clueless, but i’d rather see them get burned man to man – that way it’s more about talent than stupidity.
if the lions are going to stick to whatever defensive scheme they’re trying to run, that’s fine, maybe they’ll fill it with players than can play in the next couple of years.
oh and congrats on posting your ESPN article on here. totally rad man. LOVE kevin seifert.
by redwingxviii on Sep 20, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I just don't get some of the Lions fans on here....
WHATEVER YOU DO…. don’t look at any of the positive movement. Dwell on only the negative. Don’t mind the play of the defensive line… just focus on the weak secondary. Don’t look at the brilliant move to get Jahvid Best… just focus on “how dumb” everyone but you is.
Sheesh….
seems like you're more qualified than me
i love the disclaimers you use man. The one with the seifert argument was the best. I don’t mean to brag but…
check this out.
http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2009/7/8/942316/primary-concerns-for-the-secondary
and i’m plenty positive on the lions. i’m really happy with the d-line. i love KVB . and on offense, best seems pretty good.
i just want to see a QB not throw for 275+ yds. Kyle Orton lit us up as a Bear. Is there a QB that doesn’t light us up?
i’d just like to see them try something else if the secondary doesn’t understand how to play Cover 2. and if they learn it and it’s awesome? Then great!
venting about a terrible pass defensive performance (42+ in a row) isn’t new or wrong.
plus, i gave schwartz an A. i like the direction.
by redwingxviii on Sep 20, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
*seifert article
plus i gotta run man, so if you want to get into a 50 post argument i’ll catch ya tonight.
by redwingxviii on Sep 20, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, you are still crapping your shorts over what a guy did against us in 2008?
Orton is the #5 rated QB this year. #6 in total yardage.
Drew, this Fan Base is so out of touch with reality it is not funny. I bet there are a ton of fans here that think that the 2007 team should have made the playoffs, when that team was really terrible. The final half of the season showed what that team was made of. 1 and 7 with the one win at home against KC. A KC team at the end of a nine game losing streak, that had effectively quit the season a few weeks earlier.
I guess so, North.
I’m having a tough time posting any comments on here lately. Not sure what to make of it.
Hey now you two cannot insult the great fan base of the PoD!
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
I simply haven't had much time lately to post much
Working 60-hour weeks these days. Love the OT, but need my sleep.
"We lost!" Delmas yelled at reporters. "What you want? What you got to ask me?"
Delmas stared at reporters defiantly.
"That’s what I thought,"
2/3 of the world is covered by water. The rest is covered by Eric Berry.
Sorry to squeeze in here but I guess I did insult the fan base at large...
….and I apologize for stereotyping the group. I guess I should have known this would probably happen based on how many Lions fans said they would judge the team’s progress [which is how the Coach and GM get measured] just by WINS and LOSSES, even if that number of wins is less than six.
I guess my frustration is that even people who have been going on about this team only winning four or five games [a very defensible prediction IMO] are ripping into the team and management after two games. I guess they don’t think we can win four or five games out of the last fourteen?
Perhaps I am being overly optimistic, but I see a completely different team from 2008, and people who keep bashing THIS TEAM for the performance of the 2008 team are way out of line. We have had 75% turnover from the 2008 team not including management. It is completely unfair to saddle these players and team with that “achievement”.
No... I wasn't insulting the POD base
I’m just a little frustrated by a select few. And not you, Smurf.
Okay... like what is your problem with me?
I know I went over the line a little yesterday – because I had comments deleted – but I can’t understand your fascination with pissing me off? Did I offend a family member or kick your dog or something?
still pissed about the things you said about people with addiction
i doubt i like you as a person but i honestly would respect your thoughts on a secondary scheme. i don’t think i know football as you, and this past sunday was the first sunday i even thought “omg, our players have no idea where they should be”
might be player stupidity and lack of talent alone.
we’ll be friends at Super Bowl 2013.
by redwingxviii on Sep 21, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Ahh... okay
I knew there was something. Look, I have my opinions on that and I am sorry if you are a recovering addict and I offended you. But that was months ago. You don’t need to follow me around the site posting things I wrote a year ago or egging me on. You’re actually putting work into intentionally irritating me which really pisses me off (and it is working). I come here to relax and join in some friendly banter.
The other thing is… you don’t know me as a person… at all. Don’t pretend to. Keep the focus on the Lions and not your weird infatuation with getting me riled up.
i have commented on two of your posts
this and that other one. maybe one other. you can look it up if you want.
so get over yourself on this “weird infatuation”
when i see you post stupid stuff i’ll probably say it’s stupid. i probably won’t be as kind to point out your good stuff too often, but we probably agree more than we disagree on football matters.
by redwingxviii on Sep 21, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
this post was stupid
while referring to a stupid post that was probably referring to another stupid post.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
I have no desire to look anything up...
‘cause frankly I don’t care all that much about past posts. If I say something “stupid”, you got all the right in the world to call me out on it. But I’d like to know where I just said something blatantly stupid… with the exception of letting some of you guys get the best of me and getting pissed off. That’s not me under normal levels of stress.
I’ll admit that I’ve been a bit testy lately. It just doesn’t help when you come looking for it.
Friendly Banter?
Anyone posts anything that opposes your opinion and you will sit here for hours desperately trying to convince them you are right. When that ultimately fails because people have minds and opinions of their own, you start insulting them.
DrewsLions, seriously.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
Well in drews' defence here!
Him and me went round and round about drafting Staff over Curry or a LT. And I’m not affraid to say that Drew was right about that 1!
How many lumps you want Doc?
I didn't insult you... I questioned your opinion
There is a huge difference. I’ve said it many times… you are entitled to your opinion. And I can challenge your opinion. And you know what… I can debate my opinion until the cows come home… and you can end it at any point by not responding. Yes, it’s that easy.
Did Schwartz run out to the huddle and coach Hill how to pray before chucking the ball? Okay, just to be sure I have this straight…. Catch = great coach. No Catch = "D" coach. Did I capture that correctly…. lol. Get serious…..
That is a back handed slap and you know it. Thick with sarcasm and degrading undertones.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
How far down the conversation was that though...
C’mon… initially, I wasn’t trying to start anything. I was just trying to understand your point of view….
This petty, snarkiness goes both ways, Joshsun. Right?
and how long have you been here debating your side?
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
If that was directed at me
I have been on here a ton and I will be on here a ton.
My store is open almost 12 hours a day, seven days a week.
This site among others is a great place to burn time on a subject I really enjoy.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
“Anyone posts anything that opposes your opinion and you will sit here for hours desperately trying to convince them you are right. When that ultimately fails because people have minds and opinions of their own, you start insulting them.”
You’re insulting other people for sitting here for hours to defend their position when you’re doing the exact same thing.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
actually, you reading that in a way I had not intended
He can sit on here all day and argue his points and that does not matter.
The important line there was…
When that ultimately fails because people have minds and opinions of their own, you start insulting them.
Key word, Insulting.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
Can we give this a rest
You’ve made your case, we have made ours. Obviously you’re not gonna change our mind, and we’re not gonna change yours. At least you backed up whatever you said with evidence…I still don’t fully get your point but I understand your looking at the team/team building from a completely different perspective that a lot of us are.
We are taking the approach that Schwartz is a good coach and just needs talent to win, and your taking the approach of he is going to have to win before you can say he IS a good coach. Frankly, when a team is in the middle of rebuilding, there will be evidence pointing at both directions…really its mute to argue this now. Give it another year or two, look back at the results, and then we can decide who was right and who was wrong.
The beginning of the end of the misery
latif
people are still talking and discussing. If you want to stop, by all means stop.
We are taking the approach that Schwartz is a good coach and just needs talent to win, and your taking the approach of he is going to have to win before you can say he IS a good coach.
yup
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
The wins have to happen soon...
Or my vote of B is going to go to D in a hurry.
Sometimes a coach has to get his players to play above their level of talent to be considered an above average coach. The no talent argument will only work for so long if an unexpected win doesn’t start happening here and there once in a while.
Schwartz has gotten a pass from most fans, now lets see something unexpected.
by delusional on Sep 21, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
which fan base is out of reality?
the guys saying “this defense deserves credit for _” or the ones that say the defense still sucks?
“everyone knew the secondary would suck” – this is true. is it possible we can do anything else but wait? that’s my only problem with these first two games.
“Orton is the #5 rated QB” – maybe we can trade stafford for him then.
by redwingxviii on Sep 21, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
FUCK THAT REDWING
The day we trade for a QB that cry’s all the time and seperates himself from the team because he thinks he is better than the rest of the team is the day I quit being a LIONS fan! You should be strung up and beatin by Probert and Kocer for even making a comment like that! I am assuming you know who the bruise brothers are being your blog name!
How many lumps you want Doc?
uh, my point was that orton sucks
i like matt stafford a lot.
i hate when our defense gives up tons of yards to bad QBs. that’s all.
i look forward to either 1) replenishing the secondary with talent or 2) running a different scheme or 3) both
by redwingxviii on Sep 21, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I must have missed the sarcasm.
I beleave that choice 1 on your options would be the best way to go. But then I think about Vet’s that we could have had in here like Bly’,Buchannon and Lito Sheppard who probably because of their experience would have played tighter but this FO wanted to go with a younger team and I appluad them for sticking to their guns. And at least this coach is sitting there after loss’s talking about "we are going to go back and “teach” these guys where to be"! Thinking about next draft real quick here. I think we take a LT in the first round then you will see LB/CB in the second cause we need some serious help at LB; more so than at CB!
How many lumps you want Doc?
lions needs
CB, LB, OL
which is about 9 positions less than two years ago.
by redwingxviii on Sep 21, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d stick with defense early and often. The OL isn’t perfect, but the defense is atrocious and a few more defensive players will go a long way to make this team truly competitive.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Agreed
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
While I agree with you Telemakhos
I’m just looking at what this regime has done with first round picks so far. If SUH wasn’t clear cut the best player in this past draft, I think we would have see a certain LT drafted, you know the one that is currently hurt. Out of the 4 first round draft choices that this regime has had 3 of them are starting for the offence. I don’t see them shying away from the trend that is already set. Now with that being said, if a guy falls to us that no one thought would be there on D, then I don’t see our FO passing on him, I mean you gotta give Gunny some kind of talent in order to get the D up to par.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I think the lions have gone offense in the first round so much because those positions were all glaring needs.
I really refuse to believe that backus is as bad as the fans think. No matter what the fans think, so many professionals that have come through the lions coaching staff and front office have thought that backus was a good offensive tackle. I just tend to agree with them more than a bunch of guys that only know what they see on tv. They see one sack by peppers and think that backus is terrible. Every offensive lineman gets beat sometimes. The point of the position is to minimize how many times you lose the battle.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Glaring need, Secondary. Has been for about 9 years. More importantly, it has been an obvious glaring need for the 2 Mayhew drafts.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
I think it’s safe to say it’ll be THE glaring need in his 3rd draft also
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Lions draft for the Best Player Available
Does not matter what the position is [okay they would not use a first rounder on a QB] but I think almost any other position is open. The only possible other position they might not draft in the first round next year is D Line.
That was Millen’s problem. He decided before the draft what position he wanted to fill, then drafted that position. EPIC FAIL.
agreed
My problem with the best player available motto. Defensive players, with few exceptions(suh for one), do not get rated as highly as offensive players do. I cant help but wonder if that is one of the reasons we stacked the offense so much?
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
Probably true
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on Sep 21, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I recall reading somewhere, probably Killer Tom, that it is mainly due to the slant of the rules to the offence.
And the pay scales. Outside of pass rush DEs, QBs, LTs, WRs are the highest paid positions in the NFL.
Could be
something I’ve noticed is alot of teams build the defense first and quickly, but when the offense finally catches up, that defense is already in decline.
I’m thinking (seriously, I can and am) Mayhew wanted to get the offense finished first to a point to where he’d only have to plug a hole on offense once in a while. Seeing how the offense almost seems complete, I’m thinking (seriously, stop laughing when I say that) he going to concentrate on the defense next.
In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both
Pride of Detroits village idiot
I think that he has to, right?
I mean, I guess he could go offensive tackle or ahem.. wide receiver in the first, but it’s likely that they will start focusing on needs just a little bit. Maybe BPA with a slant towards need?
I think they stick to BPA.....
although depending on when we pick there are a couple of great CBs coming out next year. The Prince of Nebraska and Peterson from LSU. There are also some very good OLBs like Travis Lewis and Greg Jones.
HOLD IT! How did I get on the 2011 draft again? Damn.
I think it will be best LB, CB, or S with the possible exception of an LT if we pick early on in the first.
They may have been taking BPA so far in this regime, but you can’t tell me that any of those picks wasn’t a need. So we can’t really tell if they draft for need or BPA
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Of course they were all needs......
….because we had nothing. And I mean nothing, worth passing on the best player available.
but then who knows if we were drafting for need or BPA. I don’t think we can really predict what strategy they’ll use.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
D
0-2 record.
Poor halftime adjustments.
Poor coaching decisions. Same play twice? Come’on!!!!
by CLF on Sep 20, 2010 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Swartz I gave a B too
And after the way he threw that red flag in anger I want to give him an A, but getting close does not equal A’s. Injuries to Berry and others in the back 7 have already cost us a lot of credibility. I said it before the season started we have a great front 5 counting Peterson in the group but after that we have 1 player and that is Delmas.I think Lineham should get a C cause it has been a very vanilla playbook so far but how much of his playcalling has been due to not having Staff out there? Gunny I give an A to. Say what you want but that front 4 has been outstanding and I like the fact that we are going after QB’s with the blitz. Now if we would not have traded up and grabbed Best we would have a better backfield but there was NO ONE there in the second round that could have produced as much as BEST has on offence. Like we said before and during and after the draft:You can’t totally rebuild in 2 years time. Not when the cupboards were SO DAMN EMPTY.
How many lumps you want Doc?
B
Solid but not over the top enough to get an A.
Linehan gets an F-. As in, he should have to go back to middle school and start over.
As in, HOW THE HELL DO YOU LET YOUR QB GO IN ON THE ENEMY’S END OF THE FIELD WITH 90 SECONDS LEFT DOWN THREE AND NOT TELL HIM TO GET IN FIELD GOAL RANGE AND WORRY ABOUT TOUCHDOWNS LATER????
I mean for fuck’s sake, you play to tie at home!
Gunther gets a B. It would be interesting (as in, maybe make some people realize what’s coming out of their pieholes is incredibly stupid) and determine what the difference in completion percentage and QB efficiency is when receivers have 5 seconds to run routes and when they have 10 or more. Then you can bitch at the secondary because they’re not performing Jesus-class miracles on the field.
If we were just grading the D-Line, though, I’d have already named Gunther Valedictorian and he’d be on his way to Harvard.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
I for one...
am sicken and dumbfounded on the votes.
How the hell does an 0-2 Head coach… let me rephrase that…. a 2-16 Head coach, get a “B”????
I can see maybe a C, but that’s it.
This Detroit Lions team has been ill prepared for the past 2 games. Ill prepared to face injury(stafford, Levy), Ill prepared to handle complex blitzing schemes, Ill prepared to troubleshoot a weak Secondary, you name it… Ill prepared.
Further more, some of the game time choices have been horrible! “hey guys, lets show them who we are… Suh, get out there and lead block…”… “Oh, it’ll work better the second time”
Pure Amateur call.
One positive is the way Schwartz handled the locker room after the CJ thing.
Maybe I’m being Harsh… but someone has to offset the gushy, lovefest with this 0-2 team.
First game= C
Philly game= D
Overall= D
Flame on!~
I'll give you a few....
Are we better today versus yesterday…. yes. Did he inherit the absolute worst team in NFL history… yes. What was the combined variance in both of our first two losses… 8. How does our defensive line look… fierce. How did they look last year… weak and pathetic. Did he have his starting first overall pick quarterback for 6 of the 8 quarters in these games… nope. If he did, would we have won… I firmly believe so. Would we be having this discussion at 2-0… hell no.
Think about it, CLF…. 8 pts without our starting quarterback and a shitty call separates us from 2-0. I think the guy deserves the benefit of the doubt with what he has had to work with… right?
Look, all I'm saying is...
So far this season, its a D.
None of the improvements have wielded a win.
Some of the coaching decisions have prevented a win.
Will it get better?
I don’t have my crystal ball… but right now… the lions have a big fat 0 in the win column.
a big fat goose EGG!
0 and counting. I want a damn win!
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
omg, that is a brilliant pic for the situation CLF
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
If you only want a win ....... maybe pick another team
no I’m not bashing the Lions I have been watching them since the mid 70’s and I like the like the attitude Schwartz brings to the team. I gave him a C- I don’t get upset with losses anymore I’m immune over the years I have always had other teams to root for. Too many people take this much to serious. For now I’m still looking back to the good old days of the Wayne Fontes era geez that sounds sad LOL.
by spicymchaggis on Sep 21, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
You gave him a C-, I gave him a D
we are right there together.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
The Suh call was immature...
Using a D-Lineman as a lead blocker maybe cute in practice but not during a game people payed money to see.
"I don't take shit from anybody... If I have to throw somebody on their neck two times for them to understand that, it's that simple. They are not going to disgrace me." -Ndamukong Suh
Right...
because you would know more then our coaching staff, men that have dedicated their entire lives to the intricacies of the game, right? I mean, that’s what you’re implying, isn’t it?
those same men
that dedicated the entirety of their lives to the game called the exact same play again after the first epic fail. The eagles were selling out on the run. have best or Suh (he was an eligible receiver, break out into the flat and pass the damn ball.
One on one I trust best to get 1/2 a yard, 1 on 1 I trust Suh to carry a guy 1/2 a yard.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
I agree
as I’ve said, Linehan has some explaining to do, but he’s the one that made that call, not Schwartz or Gun, which is why I don’t understand why anyone is getting on them about the call.
Schwartz was very right to decide to go for it; Linehan just fucked it up with the playcalling.
My point above was that Schwartz obviously wouldn’t have let Suh in on that play if he didn’t have faith in him pulling it off, so calling it “cute” is a slap in the face to him.
by motown313 on Sep 20, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I saw that play call as a gimmicky, and yes cute, play designed to draw attention away from where ever Suh was. When they actually ran behind him once I was stunned, twice I was pissed.
The first time it was ran I had memories of the fridge perry’s bloated self running the ball.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
Word...
Can you imagine a playaction deep pass to CJ or even a TE seam route? Easy 6, let alone 1yd.
Andre Johnson's TD on 4th down in the 4th
if you are going to go for it go all fucking out don’t run a play that doesn’t involve your best player and one that the D is selling out too and just shut down.
The Suh call....
Was dumber then F===…..Twice no less…..It’s like having a big target saying …..were running here.
I’m very disappointed in his play calling up to now……How in the hell can C.J. be a non factor for hugh parts of the game every week?
well the fact of the matter is that they should be able to get 1 yard on 2 plays, straight up. the play call might have been bad, but talented players can get that yard when they need it.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Yes...
That’s exactly what I am implying. Our team has been the joke of the league for too long to be running gimmick plays in crucial situations like that. When’s the last time you saw the New England Patriots or the Steelers pull goofy s#!* like that when they are getting their asses beat?
"I don't take shit from anybody... If I have to throw somebody on their neck two times for them to understand that, it's that simple. They are not going to disgrace me." -Ndamukong Suh
the pats do that shit all the time. the play where brady pretends the snap goes over his head, vrabel lining up on offense, flutie’s drop kick.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
You do realize he was used in that role at Nebraska on almost every short yardage play, don't you?
NOT immature, smart because he’s better in that role than Felton is. It WAS however a bad play call by Linehan running into the pile twice in a row. they should have done an off-tackle run behind Suh sealing the edge on the LB’s.
by toled0lions on Sep 20, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I totally disagree with you
Considering the talent level of our squad, the fact that we’ve kept games close until the very end is admirable.
We were robbed of the first game and should be 1-1.
We lost our Franchise QB less then halfway through the first game, something that in and of itself should be a very good excuse for a team of this caliber to start out 0-2.
There is no doubt in my mind that if we had Stafford, we would’ve beat the Eagles. So if you take away the game one robbery and give us a healthy Stafford, we should be sitting at 2-0.
And quite frankly CLF, your pessimism is starting to seriously piss me off. It seems like you never, ever have anything good to say about the team you supposedly are a fan of. If all you’ve got is negative shit to say, just don’t say it at all. POD would be better off without your constant “The Sky is Falling!” bullshit.
What grade would you give the following teams coaches?
Kansas City (4-12)
Seattle (5-11)
Cleveland (5-11)
Oakland (5-11)
"PESSIMISM"
Look up the word, JACK.
I didn’t comment on ANYTHING ABOUT THE REST OF THE SEASON. Not one word. So pessimism is out the window.
What I did do is answer the question. Then question WTF anyone would give an above average grade to a failing team.
by CLF on Sep 20, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
We knew going into this season that our Secondary, including the LInebackers was weak. We have picked up good players at a lot of positions… QB… yes including a good backup. RB- our new threat for the big play. WR, a good addition to draw some of the pressure off CJ. Another LG who is doing pretty good, though I am disappointed with the overall play of the OLine.
A great Definsive LIne, sharing the lead with GB for sacks at 10. We had 26 Sacks all last season! Thats a huge improvement.
Safety play, is still pretty decent thanks to Delmas.
We had so many holes after 2008, and we can only fill so many at a time. I would like to know who they could of picked up the last 2 years in what position to make this team a lot better.
We knew going into the season that we would be lucky to pull off one or two wins in the first 4 games of the season.
by coolbreeze42 on Sep 20, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
so you’re saying the lions, playing at a D level, came within 3 points of beating a playoff caliber team in the eagles? Sounds pretty good to me
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
I cant speak for CLF
but I saw a D team come within 3 points of the Eagles once The Eagles backed off and played prevent deep defense trying to kill the time left on the clock.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
I saw them get an onside kick and 4 shots at the end zone
A rather poor way for the Eagles to kill time, if you ask me.
"We lost!" Delmas yelled at reporters. "What you want? What you got to ask me?"
Delmas stared at reporters defiantly.
"That’s what I thought,"
2/3 of the world is covered by water. The rest is covered by Eric Berry.
on those four plays, the eagles clamped down and what happened?
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
So, if the Lions do anything it is because of other team's failures......
…….that is the essence of negativity. They have players that make plays and we have players that make plays. I prefer to give some credit that people take advantage of the opportunities that are available. The Lions, Hill, Grew, Best, Calvin, Backus, Gosder, et al, made some plays. Would it kill you to give them a little credit?
Best deserves all the credit I or anyone else can give
He was a beast out there. A one man wrecking crew. He admitted he was nervous the first game. The second game he was relaxed and it showed. I worry about his injury. I swear I saw him grimace and limp more than once. Lets hope it is nothing big because we absolutely NEED him out there.
Suh was also phenomenal. Most experts said he would have perhaps 4-5 sacks all season. He has 2 after two games. That is nice upside.
Grew had a outstanding game also. Seeing that wrecking ball lumbering down the field is a thing of beauty. I have to believe he is still limited by the knee injury because he just does not look as fast as I remember him last year. If that is the case, great to see him out there working and competing.
SLH, what can you say, getting what we get from him in a back up player is just outstanding. I have to believe he is learning from playing with these other blue chip D line players. It is showing.
Calvin, is a mystery to me an many others. Where was he all game?
As for the O line players, the less i hear their names called the better. Backus is not the most popular player around here but I do not think he is as bad as many other seem too. Gosder, he is young and seems to be progressing. The O line as a whole has improved. 4 sacks total this season, against teams known for their pressure. Impressive.
Credit is deserved and given. That does not change my opinion that the Eagles let up on us and that was when we started moving the ball in the 4th.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
by joshsun on Sep 21, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
not at all
Our differences are on other subjects completely. all that stuff said, to me means nothing. At the end of the day, a loss is still a loss. The team is still 0-2 despite those efforts. I remember a promising running back during the season of tears. His valiant efforts, well you know.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
I didn't realize we had "other" differences.
My difference are based on your opinions of the Lions. Yours seem to be something else entirely….
lol
I am not even getting into it. I am sure we will have plenty of opportunities during the course of this season to debate.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
Sounds good.
I just want you to know that I honestly have nothing against you. So when you read my comments, don’t immediately add malice or instigation into them. Have a good night.
Had to give him a C
C is average and that’s what his coaching performance has been to date. Above average for Lion’s franchise standards yes but compared to the rest of the NFL I think he is average. To give him a B, which is above average, is not realistic to me. An above average coach pulls out wins with play calling in games where his team is expected to be competitive but with little chance of winning and wins games they should. He is 2-16 and with the roster he has been given that isn’t a bad mark but to give him a higher grade that record would have to be 5-11 or something better.
I gave him a B
As long as we are in every game to the bitter end, that will be a big improvement for me. That being said I would still like to see a minimum of 4 wins and hopefully 6 or 8. But the point is that I did not place my expectation so much on on wins and losses but rather how competitive we are. Of course there are teams that I expect us to beat, Chicago and Philly are not those teams. I expected us to give them a good fight, and possibly win, but I never thought it was a lock for us to beat either of those teams.
Give the adversity we have been facing I am happy with where we are at. QB out, MLB out, Brand new secondary, with some of them banged up or out, and a sub par offensive line. I think Schwartz has handled most of the adversity very well, and he would have received an A from me had he not gone for it on 4th and 1. I am just not a fan of leaving points off the board in a close game and I think a coach has failed when one of his decisions eliminates the possibility of a tie or win. Even he said in the post game interview that he should have called a time out when the Eagles subbed in a big package too late for us to adjust the play.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Not to be pessimistic
because I seem to be supporting CLF on this thread but is it not expected of a professional football team in the NFL to be at the least competitive in every game? Not that where used to that around here but to me just being competitive is in keeping in line with what is expected of every NFL team and makes the coaching performance so far average.
WE WERE COMPETITIVE IN BOTH GAMES!!!
Jesus Christ, did you even watch the games? Both went down to the wire, and both without our Franchise QB. How the hell could anybody not think those were both close game? Are you smoking rocks or some shit?
In the very post I replied to
is it not expected of a professional football team in the NFL to be at the least competitive in every game?
That’s where you said it. Right there. So, no, I’m definitely not smoking anything.
(checks the rocks to see if they're smoking)
"We lost!" Delmas yelled at reporters. "What you want? What you got to ask me?"
Delmas stared at reporters defiantly.
"That’s what I thought,"
2/3 of the world is covered by water. The rest is covered by Eric Berry.
WHAT?
Those rocks got you all messed up huh. If that is saying they were not competitive don’t want to see your response to a comment like, “The Lions didn’t even compete today”.
We were getting smoked in the Eagles game
until they went into a prevent deep zone defense. They let us back into the game. Bottom line! Sure we took advantage of their choices on defense but that was not us dominating at the end of the 4th. That was them backing off hoping to kill the clock.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
So they "let us" back into the game?
Hehehe… I love that one. No team EVER simply lets another team back into the game. The Eagles wanted to win 42-17. They were trying… prevent or not (which I’ll challenge you on… gonna watch the game again tonight). The won 35-32 because the Lions came back and played better than the Eagles in the fourth quarter. Is that so hard to admit. You do root for them right? You seem to want to color them in a pretty bad light for a 3 point loss right now.
Or you are coloring it in an overly good light
Apples and oranges. I think we see the same thing long term, I am pissed about the now. Find a way to win a damn game!
And yeah, they totally backed off on us in the 4th quarter.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
As per Scott Van Pelt on his show:
“If I’m a Lions fan I’m proud of my team right now.”
And we should be, yet some of you seem to be haters by nature, and quite frankly are the type of people I wish would just shut the hell up already. What are you contributing by being so negative?
Just about as much as you are
blowing sunshine and rainbows up everyone’s asses.
a Head coaches only job is to win. Has he done that? Exactly.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
So let me ask you this Joshsun
I am acting as Ford Sr. here and I am giving you the reigns of my professional football team after we just went 0-16, build me a winner in the second year. Can you do it???? especially when I’m giving you a team that has NO one that can even start on another team in the NFL. OK So with that in mind I am giving Coach and Gunny both B’s or better, especially when we should be 1-1!
How many lumps you want Doc?
yes, we should be 1-1 but the bottom line is we are not
Like it or not, we were lucky to be in the bears game. They shot themselves in the foot so many times any decent team would have soundly beat them. That fact was the most painful thing i saw against the bears second only to the bad call.
As for the rest of your post, Mayhew has worked miracles putting as much talent on the field as possible. He is some kind of genius. His genius, on the other hand, does not let Schwartz off the hook.
A Head Coaches only job is to win games, ugly or otherwise. I gave him a D because of what he is forced to work with in terms of talent but 2-16 is clearly and F.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
Thats true about the Bears game.
They did go down and beat Dallas this weekend. Maybe they are just a little better than everyone thought.
by coolbreeze42 on Sep 20, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
or, as i expected before the season.
Dallas is overrated and chicago is better with a couple healthy LBs. I would not expect Chicago’s LBs to stay healthy all season and they will suffer when that happens.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
True on both statements... but Dallas did make the playoffs last year.
by coolbreeze42 on Sep 20, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Take up the challenge, what picks should we of grabbed in the first 3 or 4 rounds instead of the ones we picked?
This is a great chance since picks like williams or brown have been questionable.
by coolbreeze42 on Sep 20, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Hindsight is far too easy.
Just look at the drafts and pick a successful player behind our picks. It is like pissing into the wind, you can do it but what is the point?
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
I agree with the hindsight remark.
However, if we grabbed the first 2 or 3 picks from 2009 and 2010 in our same draft positions, I don’t think we would be that much better.
What I’m saying is that we have really made some good selections.
by coolbreeze42 on Sep 20, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
winning is both a short and long term concept. He has not won yet, but I doubt anyone would have with the roster he inherited. This team is improving and building for future wins. They’re building fairly quickly, as we’ve been competitive just a year after the end of our 0-16 season, but we’re also building a good young core of players to have sustained success.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
CLF
You are blowing me away with your (seems like hatered) of this coaching staff. We are talking about a team that should be 1-1 right now, without our franchise QB. And a make-shift backfield.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Take it how you want....
But I have no anger or hatred towards this coaching staff…
But more so the Fans for not giving them an honest up to date Grade.
Hell… if 0-2 start with 3 blown leads can get me a “B” with my fans, I might go into coaching myself.
Oh, And we SHOULD BE talking about a 2-0 team.
But we’re not. So take off the rose colored glasses, reality is here.
if you seriously think that this is a playoff team or whatever, then maybe you’re the one drinking the kool aid.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
CLF dude... chill
It’s a collective, progressive grade… not just the last two games. It’s the things he says, the attitude he gives, the players he brings (you think Vanden Bosch was a Mayhew get?). It’s a combination of things. To that point, he gets a “B” from me. If we continue to lose and progress stops… then his grade drops. It’s all about context… inherit bad team = get time to turn it around. Really, really bad team = a little more benefit of the doubt.
You’re a smart guy, so it should be understandable why people feel this way.
Wish my teachers graded on optimism and potential...
Wait… no I don’t…lol
Speaking of potential… The Lions just aren’t performing to there’s.
But your teachers did grade you on the ENTIRE semester... right?
It’s a body of work… not two games. 14 more to go. Lots of chances to win games. At the end of the season, we can all rise up and torch Schwartz’s house. But for now, let’s see what happens.
Just curious… what is the potential of this team in your opinion? 4 wins? 8 wins? 10 wins?
4-6 personally
Minus the one the Bears tried to hand us.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
So why on Earth are you so riled up tonight?
Honestly, I don’t for the life of me understand your point of view, Joshsun. You only expect them to win 4-6 games and we are only 2 games into the season, lost both games by a collective 8 pts… without Stafford, were in both games inside of 1.5 minutes. What?!?!?! Yeah we couldn’t pull out either of them. We make one play in each game we are 2-0. Nothing else changes!
Help me understand you! I don’t want to get into pissing matches on every subject, but I just can’t get where you are coming from…..
HUH?
How many times do I have to say it drew… Right now… at this time… after 2 losses… He gets a D.
Can he improve the grade? uh, yeah, he can
You’re like an angry parent right now… I’m not saying you’re kids stupid… he just needs to apply himself a bit better.
SHEESH!
Ha... okay
I’m not trying to come off like that. I just think some people aren’t taking into consideration what he inherited. It’s just going to take 3-4 years to turn around. We start 0-2, but show some progress and competitiveness and it doesn’t seem to count for anything to some people. I just don’t really get that.
A big Fat D
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they always stink.
That goes for both of us Drew.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
Mine smells like ROSES!!!!!
ahhhh summers eve!!!!! What a wonderfull thing!
How many lumps you want Doc?
By giving him a "D"....
The dude was giving a five gallon bucket and a mop and told to clean the city of Detroit. Big job. Takes time.
Either way… it’s you’re opinion and if you say “D”… “D” it is. I just don’t really understand it all that much.
Which is why
you are grading on potential. Do the Lions look better-absolutely. Did the front office get some quality players-absolutely. Did the Lions have the chance to win-absolutely. Could things have been different with our starting QB-potentially. Would the Eagles game change with Kolb-potentially. All being said, I can see a passing grade for the coach. The improvements are there. But if you basing a grade on here right now with success and failure, I can understand a failing grade. We are 0-2 and giving up lots of points/yards. DId we know this going into the season-absolutely. But how long until potential becomes wasted. I like our staff. I think we are better. But eventually in the end of the day you need Ws.
We're at the end of the day already?
Man, that was a short day.
It’s like tossing a man down into an outhouse pit with a spoon and failing him for not cleaning it out in 5 minutes. It takes more time than that.
At this time, under these circumstances, an “incomplete” might be more appropriate.
"We lost!" Delmas yelled at reporters. "What you want? What you got to ask me?"
Delmas stared at reporters defiantly.
"That’s what I thought,"
2/3 of the world is covered by water. The rest is covered by Eric Berry.
incomplete was not an option
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
no, we just shouldn’t expect our team to win IMMEDIATELY.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
u still got the goods CLF
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me in one of my LIONS shirts
ok, so you expect this to be a playoff team coming off of an 0-16 season? You’re a moron.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Alright, I'm done guys.
Like, with POD in general. I’m so tired of everybody being so fucking negative. I seriously could go to the cancer ward at the Hospital and have more positive and uplifting conversation then I could on here. So tired of nobody ever having anything good to say about a team they supposedly love. I actually have a lot of family that live IN the city of Detroit, not out in the suburbs, and there’s way too much negativity already in the city to deal with more when it comes to discussing football, particularly when we don’t actually have any fucking reason to be negative.
I’m depressed enough as it is having to constantly hearing about family members that can’t find a fucking job without having to listen to you yuppie white folks bitch about a team that you should be proud of. Peace out peoples.
I apologize
for the “yuppie white folks” comment. I didn’t have any reason to bring race into this, that’s not cool. Sorry for that.
Puff puff pass motown!!!! :-)
I resemble that remark brother. lol. If anyone got offended by a yuppie white folk comment then I am sure I have offended many people on the POD.
How many lumps you want Doc?
OMG lmao
I am proud to be a “cracker” “yuppie white folk” “grain of salt” and many other lovely names over the course of time, but if a silly name is going to offend you then you just are not educated. What’s the old saying? Sticks and stones may break my bones, but I’d rather have my woman smoking my pole?? something like that…. GOOO LIONS and let’s get Favre into that wheel chair next week.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I'm just proud to be an American... pass the sun chips please.
by coolbreeze42 on Sep 20, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Accepted
Motown313,
I can understand how people can really got hot on these blogs. I doesn’t seem to matter if its about politics, sports or the color of the sky. Some people want instant gratification, some are willing to wait and some just give up.
I am in now way happy that the Lions are 0-2 but I do see progress. The games are much closer than last year. The defensive line is greatly improved. The offensive line is better, although Backus seems to have taken a step back from last year. The running game may be improving but that will be seen, but you can’t help but like Best. Let’s see if the Defensive Backs can improve as the season goes along.
Finally, it looks like Jason Hanson is back although he is nearing the end of his career age wise.
Finally, it looks like Jason Hanson is back although he is nearing the end of his career age wise.
HUH? Did you see that 49 yarder? it pass the uprights by 20yds….. as it should.
yeah, he smoked that kick.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
And yet
My favorite Lion (YES HE ACTUALLY IS) just can’t seem to put the ball in the endzone on kickoffs. Can anyone explain that to me? Jay can kick a 60 yard field goal but can’t get the ball into the endzone with more time and a longer run up.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Seriously dude?
Because you don’t like people expressing their opinions through the median designed for it you are done with POD. Whack Son. Tyrone Biggums smoking rocks whack! 
You just gotta let it slide off your back
People have opinions, and some people are harder to please than others. That’s just how it goes. There are negatives on this team which need to be addressed and since the wins are not coming, the negatives are the most obvious things to talk about. The positives don’t change our position. But they give me, and others, hope for wins in the future. And that’s all I can ask for.
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on Sep 20, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
motown, Us positive types are needed here. You are needed here.
I guess I deal with the negativity by stating my case to be positive, well, a few times at least, then move on. It is the same guys who are doing the ragging. I swear some of these guys are not happy unless the Lions follow their plan and use their favourites.
Stick around motown, things will get better.
You gotta stick around
you’re the only one who gets my jokes
In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both
Pride of Detroits village idiot
by JazzyBBP on Sep 21, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Yes, I recced that comment. You ARE the only one who gets Jazzy's jokes.
We need you to explain them to the rest of us. LOL
Don't worry guys
I’m not going anywhere. I got pretty heated and unfortunately let my emotions do the typing for me. At the time, I was the only person in this thread actually defending the Lions, and it was frustrating having to defend them from a whole gang of people that are supposed to be fellow fans.
Thanks for the support though fellas, I felt severely outnumbered there for a while.
It's the era of worst to first in the NFL
So how could anyone say that Jim’s performance has been great let alone above average when he has not won a single game yet this year? You can say what you want about there being little talent on the team but in this league coaches need to get their players to perform above expectations and maximize their individual strengths the great coaches are masters at this i.e. Belichick and taking those above expectations contributions and totaling them into a team effort equaling wins.
You can be satisfied with competitive games that show improvement, but in the end they are still loses. Grading a coaching performance an A is saying he did an awesome job, and while being competitive in a loss is a sign of improvement around here it is not a great performance. Wins equal greatness not losses.
KC...
has played the Browns and Chargers. The Chargers are without their no. 1 offensive player short of Rivers and have a rookie rb. Comparing teams is a pointless endeavor.
by lions_sucker on Sep 20, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Well said
Agree totally Saginaw
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me in one of my LIONS shirts
worst to first does not generally refer to worst in history. Most of those teams have talent and are just a few positions short because of rebuilding. This team needed to be completely re-done.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Agreed
so worst to what? 2nd or 3rd?
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
Low standards
Very low standards. I will not accept that personally. for me, it is not enough.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
So 4-6 wins are not low standards?
Joshsun, my friend… you are running yourself in all kinds of circles here. You… the crusader for truth, justice and the American way will not stoop to such lowly levels of seeing this team simply be better. You, the people’s hero, will not settle for anything short of 4 wins, dammit. Lol…. you’re killing me here, dude!
by DrewsLions on Sep 20, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wins-wise? About 5 to 7.
But honestly, it was more about progress and competitiveness. I know that we still have too many holes to be a great team, but the foundation is there. I want to see that foundation progress and start to learn to win. Learning to win sounds remedial, but it has to happen with a team like Detroit. So far, we’ve had two competitive games and we haven’t quite learned how to win them. I see progress…..
So in your eyes expectations have been meet right?
Being competitive has meet your standards? Throw wins and loses out the window for right now because there is still 14 games left to be played this year and we could end the season with anywhere from 5 to 10 wins that is how volatile the NFL regular season is.
Not putting words in your mouth so please respond back. But if just being competitive and showing improvement is your standards then a single win would have exceeded your expectations and going 2-0 would have consistently exceeded your expectations.
So to just meet expectations to me is middle of the road and for the grading system given that is a C. Since using a ABC grading scale when rating performance isn’t great for distinctions in levels of success I always think about it using a military performance rating system of 1-5; 1- does not meet standards 2- needs improvement, 3- meets standards, 4 – exceeds some standards, 5- consistently exceeds standards truly among the best; and by that scale Jim has only been a 3 (with no inflation lol). With some translating to the ABC grading scale I get back to the C.
I love the signs but if we are grading on current accomplishments it is a solid not bad not great C.
Well... it's not quite black and white like that.
I’m grading Schwartz by the body of work to date and what he inherited (I gave him a “B”, by the way).
To turn a turd of a team into one that is learning to be competitive is something. Like many others here, I won’t throw that out the window. Wins will come, just not a lot of them this year. I’d say that they are tad under my expectations right now, because I thought they should have beaten Chicago. Although, that task was made more difficult by losing Stafford. But I see progress and many areas where we have upgraded. I give credit where due…..
I’m grading Schwartz by the body of work to date and what he inherited (I gave him a "B", by the way)
Why throw the poll off… that’s not what it asked.
Huh?
“What grade do you give Jim Schwartz for the job he has done so far as head coach of the Detroit Lions?” – that’s the poll question.
Those are all valid parts of that question. No?
Yeah...lol...
I didn’t even see that… I explained lower down the page.
I read the article and then voted.
So then by your own admission your grade is inflated.
If he has not meet your expectations but still gets an above average grade it can only be inflated.
I agree that there are some good pieces in place and the roster is improved but that has more to do with Mayhew being damn good at his job then Jim being a good coach. Those players producing on the field is the measure of Jim’s success and the wins they produce.
Sigh... really?
Are you trying to get something going with me as well? That’s not what I said.
My grade is not inflated. It is a COMBINATION of things. Wins-wise, the TEAM is below my expectations. But I think they are above my expectations in other areas (overall progression, competitiveness, etc). For Schwartz’s part, I see it as a collective “B”. Got it? I’m not really sure why I dignified this “baiting” with a response. Do it again and you’ll get jack and shit from me.
Panties bound tight no?
You have your opinion I have mine and so does everyone else and they fall everywhere on the scale.
If you are going to go out of your way to force someone who doesn’t agree with your thoughts to prove theirs isn’t it only fair you do the same?
Uh... don't even, dude.
You’re were trying through that whole exchange to bait me into some strange admission of inflating my grade or some shit. You know it… I know it.
Homey don’t play dat…..
I didn't try or bait you into anything.
You said what you had to say and upon my response realized A “Shit it wasn’t as clear as it should have been” or B “Damn my grade and response don’t add up” either way it’s 2 games into the session, I love a good argument, obviously you do too or this response would have been jack and shit, and it’s 10:40 and I the only thing I want to do is talk about the Lions.
I do love a good argument... as long as it's not solely for the sake of arguing.
Read through my comments again. It all adds up. I told you that it wasn’t black and white and I wasn’t using your “military system” of rating. All things considered, I’m happy with what Schwartz is doing and I thought they would be 1-1 right now. Thus, a “B” rating… down from an “A” had they won both games or maybe even been 1-1. If you don’t get that… I’m not explaining it again.
Wait say that again.
LMFAO, yeah man I get where your coming from but do you hear what I’m saying to you, in a manner of speaking, typing, or posting?
Uh, not really, but it doesn't matter.
You’re just using semantics to try to make my opinion look wishy-washy. Read this entire thread. My message is consistent.
Reader’s Digest version…. I like Schwartz. Gave him a “B”.
You got caught up on your own point
and missed mine. It’s cool tho. We agree on most things and for me that equals a C and for you a B.
and for me a D
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
SaginawGuy
Thank you. The whole night i was defending my opinion and completely ignoring the his. Well done sir.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
LOL.... there you go with predictions again...
Dude… its week 2.
Did you grade schwartz on what he has not done yet?
I did not predict anything, dont try to lay your stuff on me Drew
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
Uh... you sure that's true...
Check your comments again. “4-6 wins” You didn’t say that? Anyone can look in this thread and find that.
yup, and I still that the is the range of wins and loses for this team.
just my opinion.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
At the same time....
Schwartz is saying the exact same thing. Were 0-2, that’s all the counts. He’s been saying it over and over.
He’ s not satisfied either.
What do you think he would grade himself right now?
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
What would Schwartz grade himself?????
Without a doubt a…………. D-
The guy isn’t satisfied in the least with what he’s done up to this point in time.
would any coach ever grade himself higher than a D? I kind of doubt it
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
disclaimer
except rex ryan
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
C
Because the lack of talent in the defensive backfield has been known since before the draft. Not much has been done to address the deficiency.
I think your grade depends upon your expectations coming into the year
I’ve said all along my expectations coming into this season was a 5 or 6 win team, that plays a lot of competitive games and we see growth from our young core guys. If not for one of the dumbest rulings in sports history we are 1-1 right now even though we lost Staff after one half and haven’t had Levy. So far we’ve been competitive and our young guys like Grew, Best, Hill, and Suh have been stand out players.
I gave Schwartz a ‘B’.
Well it's a C from me.
I wanted to give him a B because he’s getting some production out of players other teams had given up on (Smith and LoJack have looked decent for example). However, I had to take into account the play calling of the OC. The OC’s spotty play calling is what has left me giving Schwartz a C. Ultimately he’s in charge of the OC and DC so their faults reflect on him. I’ve liked Gun’s aggressive play calling against the Eagles. With a normal QB you could get away with a sub par secondary if you’re getting pressure like that on the QB. Vick has an amazing ability to extend the play, and that’s where the Secondary fell apart.
C
I gave a C. Schwartz and Mayhew have done great in drafting players in my opinion so far and picking up Vanden Bosch and Corey Williams were great off-season moves. Here is where the failings are in my opinion: The defensive line will never cover up the fact that our cornerbacks don’t just stink but are a joke. We seem to be playing a zone to try and cover up for their inadequacies but the problem with that is those turds can’t tackle either, so a ten yard stop or post route turns into 50 yards after the catch. Our offense was supposed to be our saving grace this season but instead look lost half the time they’re out there. I’m starting to forget who even plays on our offense except for Best. I blame Schwartz for bringing Scott Linehan in as our OC but not picking up at least one decent CB might not have been his call. Linehan hasn’t done anything impressive as a coach in the NFL and we had a shot at Cromartie during the offseason who looked damn good against Moss last night. Maybe none of this is Scwartz’s fault and maybe he is addressing these concerns behind the scenes and I know this wasn’t supposed to be the Lions year but I can’t justify giving up anything higher than a C for an awkward looking 0-2 start.
"I don't take shit from anybody... If I have to throw somebody on their neck two times for them to understand that, it's that simple. They are not going to disgrace me." -Ndamukong Suh
A - Drafts well, signs good talent, Respectable.
What’s the alternative? He’s doing about a good a job as he can, given what he had coming in, and the injuries and officiating he’s had to deal with.
I don’t want add player does not have blue collar mentality,
even if he is great player. Piston should not quit your job. - OK from J
My expectations are higher.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
Been a fan for decades, the new era is a pleasant surprise compared to what I grew up on.
I don’t want add player does not have blue collar mentality,
even if he is great player. Piston should not quit your job. - OK from J
35 years as a fan here
My sig says it all. I am so completely tired of everyone in the league using Detroit as a kicking post. I want to see tangible improvements in the win column.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
lol
You want to know why i am on here so much voicing my opinion? I moved to chicago 10 months or so ago. I dont have neighbors/coworkers to talk to about this team. I know my opinions can be grating and seemingly pessimistic but I do love the Lions and always will. I know we are moving in a proper direction finally, I just want some damn wins. Not next week, not in the next 6 or 12 weeks, Win a friggin game damn it.
that chicago game burned me on so many levels, we had no business being in that game. 160 ish total yards and we were in it. Chicago did everything they could to lose and we could not make it happen for them………………………..
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
That context helps me somewhat.
I don’t doubt your loyalty. I just think that you’re missing many of the things that have gotten better since last year. There are NO quick fixes for this team. We were really, really bad… but we ARE getting better. Emotion is good, but don’t let it make you dwell on the negative all the time.
I am a numbers guy
and, to me, the numbers don’t lie. We are right along the average stats wise this year as compared to last year with few exceptions. We have created sacks o plenty and are scoring 6 or 7 points more a game (nice btw). Damn near everything else is lining up like last year was a template for this year. Granted, it is a small sample size but damn.
Look at it like this, the average NFL players career is what 3-4 years. That is your window for making a team a winner. we are 1/2 way threw that window with the Schwartz and people are still saying we need another year or two. At that pace players will be lost and others will be brought in to replace them. That is the reality of the NFL. That is why teams go from worst to first. The teams that are successful long term are lucky, they have star players that last 2-3 times longer than the average.
We need to start seeing more than moral victories on sundays and soon.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
Good players play for more than 3-4 years.
Suh, Stafford, Delmas, Johnson, Best, Pettigrew and others, will all play more than 3-4 years. We were 0-16. We’re going to end up turning over about 95% of our roster. Of course it’s going to take 3-4 years to rebuild us into a winner. We are only 18 games into that rebuilding… and the rebuilding isn’t even over yet. I just think that you gotta level-set with your expectations. I want to win just as badly as everyone else, I just think maybe I have a different perspective on how far we really had (or have) to go.
I dont see a single question there.
Your opinion is clear as day in that post along with many of your others. You are making excuses for losing because of the past roster and I am not accepting them. We can not and will not see eye to eye on this point.
Much like opinions, excuses are like assholes, everyone has one and they always stink.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
yes i did, and I even noted that fact in the reuse
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
A+
Once the d steps up… you will see some W’s… They are starting to gel… The D will get better with every game…(offensively is as good as it is going to get.. better than last year… NO BLOW OUTS.. always a chance to win)… There will be W at Minnesota.. Farve will get some huge sacks.. I can’t wait… One more draft LT, LB, S, CB…… we are there…
GO LIONS in 2010! the transformation starts now.. they have much to do.
I gave Schwartz an A, eh?
After two games this season I am seeing a team that has more talent than I have seen in over ten years. A team that fights harder than any I have seen since the late sixties and early seventies. With Mayhew, Schwartz has started to fill an empty cupboard with real NFL talent and playmakers.
The true measure of a team and coach is how they battle adversity. Schwartz has conducted himself like a true professional and I see that showing up in the key players on this team. No excuse making, just continual improvement and keep moving forward.
The wins will come as this team comes together and learns to win as much as they learn how to play together. I’ll be patient and celebrate all the more when this finally comes together. The foundation is here, we need to let Schwartz and his staff mold it.
So I think you should bag the season, CLF.
It’s a wash anyways right? No sense for you to even watch any further. That’s your reality… not mine. My reality is losing two games by a combined 8 pts without Stafford. I’m talking about not being all that disappointed because my expectations were in check…
There I go again what?
What am I saying that’s pissing you off so much? That reality is not simply 0-2… that progression counts for something? Enlighten me….
progression is fine.
but linehan still sucks butt. until he is gonzo the lions will come up just short and leave us arguing with each other.
by California Dillon's on Sep 20, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not pissed off, first of all...lol...
I just don’t agree with….
Gee Lil’Johnny, you tried real hard and studied a whole bunch on that math test… you failed… but tell you what, I’ll give you a B, cause I see improvement in you.
LOL.
Do you get me know?
Well, that's all good but...
this isn’t a true and false exam here. It’s funny that you chose a math test as your example, because you get credit for your work on most advanced math tests. And that translates perfect to my point here. Yes, wins are what we want, but they are not the only indicator of progress. I’m giving credit for working towards an answer that isn’t quite right yet, but getting better.
When you’re coming from the depths of roster hell, progress is something. Wins are what you strive for, but you gotta get better as a team. Spin it how you want, but you know what I’m talking about, CLF.
Yeah... and you keep broadening the picture to suit your argument...
And I’m keeping it narrow to suit mine…lol.
Problem is… Sean writes two paragraphs about the first two weeks and how we think Schwartz is doing… Lists an earlier poll… then for the poll asks about the whole body of work.
What does that get… a bunch of fans who read and answer in mainly 2 different ways….
one set(me and a couple others) who say the logical thing… uh… 0-2 gets him a “D”…
Or your set…. where based on an inherited 0-16 team… things are look’n goooood.
So… where do we go from here?
no shit.
anyway… I still would only bump his grade to a C.
This team is better than they’ve been playing, better than their being coached.
So... unless Colston gets a last minute TD...
I beat Jettero in FF…
LOL… we were tied going into tonight… he had colston… I had hartley(the kicker)…
I’m up by 3 or 4 pts…. oooo is he gonna be pissed.
Nice.
I got beat soundly by my own trade. I gave Latif Best, McCoy and Welker for CJ2K… who gave me a whopping 3 pts. The three guys I traded put up 79… lol.
Some days your the windshield…..
say it again, just because it is so relevant and true CLF
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
I give 'em a C
I agree with Drew. There is progression but, what I like this year compared to last year is the scoreboard. We are a lot closer in games and not giving up a ton of points. Gunny does have a clue, Linehan does only sometime. I actually think we could have won against Philly if Linehan would have just moved the ball into field goal range conservatively, rather than going for the first down every damn play of the last drive.
Not understanding this. Two losses and we are done?
Tell that to Dallas, Minnesota, and soon San Fran. I agree with whoever said earlier that it is way too early to judge the season, the coaches, the players, and management.
Just like calling a lot of the rookies busts already. Nonsense. Sheer nonsense.
it is too soon
but the question was asked and people gave their opinions.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
So if the Lions win their next two games and we get polled again does Schwartz get an A?
He would from me. I asked about how people would judge the team this year before the season started and around 50% said Wins and Losses. Period. So I guess I should not be surprised.
We will agree to disagree on this one.
agreed.
hes a joke. they need to play carr.
by California Dillon's on Sep 20, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Improvement...
is the only thing I realistically wanted this year. And i don’t think that anyone will disagree with me that this team is much improved. We’ve been competitive with two average to good teams and have not been blown out at all. Our biggest deficit was 18 against the Eagles and we closed that gap to 3. We’ve been short a franchise QB, a starting MLB, a starting DE, Delmas isn’t 100% and our backfield is not complete without KSmith. If you apply that to most teams in the league, they will be 0-2. This team is one more offseason away from being 2-0 right now and with playoffs in their sights.
The eagles were without their starting MLB, Center, Full back, QB among other.
Who won that game?
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
MOST
Christ, we are digging here to be pissed aren’t we.
by lions_sucker on Sep 20, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I am merely pointing out that every team has injuries, it is part of the game.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
well the lions have been working to get respectable starters for a few years now. I don’t expect them to have the same depth as a consistently good eagles team.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
that is a fair point
but loosing your starting center, middle line backer and full back is a huge hit for any team.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
well I think the eagles backups would beat our backups something like 50-10. What I’m saying is that if the lions and eagles both lose starters, the eagles have the advantage.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
I look at that as an excuse
in the same vein of “look what we had for talent 2 years ago”.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
it’s not an excuse, just a straight up roster comparison, along the same lines as, “our shitty secondary will get torched by their mediocre wide receivers”
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
Those are probably the three easiest positions to replace. Outside of Guard.
Fullback? Are you kidding me?
The Eagles lost Bradley for pretty well all last year. They still made the playoffs.
And Center? If he was acknowledged as one of the best Centers in the NFL, then yes. But their Center is not. Worse than Raiola I would say.
it was not just the center
I dont remember how it happened exactly but a ton of shuffling had gone on the front line for them and then they lost their center. it was a mess.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
I agree that their O Line is a mess.
If Kolb was back there on Sunday, the Lions would have had at least four more sacks.
I can't argue with a solid 'B'
We’ve played pretty decently so far, and with the talent we have, that’s what I was expecting.
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
Whos not gonna graduate.
Jimmy gets an A-. With huge holes to be filled with some Mayhew Crete, he still has put some fight into this team. Linahen gets a big fat N for no clue, no idea, and no one to blaim the some horrific play calling. Better players but same results. Of course Matt, Javhid, and Calvin pass and the D-Line but we all no who has consitently been a failure. Im not just talking about the O-Line. Im talkling about Jeff Sackus! I for years have given him a reprieve, but I cant take it anymore. He is a glorified backup. Thats it. He gets an F. His inconsistency has reached dangerous praportions and he must be stopped. Its time to Mathew this idiot and try to get somthing for, and im sure we can all agree, for NOTHING!
Have to give Schwartz a C
Thus far I can’t justify an A despite the fact that he lost Staff during the first half of game 1. I do question some play calling and the fact that this defense seems to be getting WORSE (at least the pass defense) than last year. For a defensive guru the porousness of the Lions D and its consistnetnly shitty play baffles me.
GRADE = C
I spray paint my dog Honolulu Blue and Silver
Pic - me in one of my LIONS shirts
I said B
Questionable decision to go for it on 4th and 1 in FG range came back to haunt us. Need to get the WRs more involved in the offense. That might be more a Linehan grade, but Schwartz has control over that kind of thing too.
by WestsideLionsFan on Sep 20, 2010 8:11 PM EDT reply actions
C
Put a C down for Gunny and Linehan too.
In life, a man is either the hammer or the anvil. Ndamukong Suh is both
Pride of Detroits village idiot
What is going on?
I give Schwartz props for his passion, and I think he can be a helluva coach. I also think the overall coaching staff is right. They just don’t seem able to connect the dots. It’s the same story as from back in the Barry Sanders days. They can score in a flash, but they can’t control the clock and that puts too much pressure on a less than steller defense.
The front four have proven they’re good. Except, Lawrence and a couple others need to use their heads more and control their aggression. You CANNOT sack a scrambling quarterback by throwing your up field shoulder at him. Too many times Vick was good as nabbed yet he slipped away, and not necessarily because he was that fast, but because the pursuer wasn’t using his head.
Their secondary has to realize they are not all that and do a more zone/press coverage. Okay, give them the 9-12 yard plays, but DO NOT let them beat you deep.
Overall I was pretty dissappointed with everyone except the two rookies. They are solid. And HIll is a capable quarterback, but I still wish Stanton could get a chance.
I feel like grading Schwartz on his win/loss record at this point
is equivalent to grading a good pitcher on his win/loss record when his teams offense isn’t good. While the Lions have some talented young pieces, there is still a lack of quality players in many areas, especially the back 7. It was just 18 months ago we had the worst roster in the history of the NFL.
Granted
but at the end of the year, that “good pitcher” is still graded on the number of wins and loses.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
only by people that don’t use modern stats, like joe morgan.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
by telemakhos on Sep 21, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not true at all
Case in point is Felix Hernandez this year for Seattle. He has been by far the best pitcher in the AL even though he ranks 20th in wins because Seattle has one of the worst offenses ever. If any GM was starting a rotation he would likely be the top pick in the AL.
Now I’m not saying Schwartz is the best coach in the league, but the Lions have a clear lack of overall talent compared to most teams in the league. We have a limited upside to this year.
So the fact we almost won 2 games against two quality teams even though we missed Staff, Levy and Burleson for parts or all of the games is doing a solid job IMO.
I agree with you to a point
That is why I did not give The Schwartz a F grade. Bottom line, the team is still 0-2
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
" Every dog should have a few fleas. "
Life is not perfect. You do enough scratching and more than likely, you’ll aggravate yourself. I think we all have more important things to get into a twist over than a damn game…
" I must be crazy to be in a loony bin like this. " " What are you doin' here? You oughta be out in a convertible bird-doggin' chicks and bangin' beaver. " " Medication time. Medication time. " ( One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest - 1975 )
I gave Schwartz a solid B
Injuries on the both sides of the ball really hurt. Stafford and Delmas especially hurt. And yes, I know Delmas is playing. But he is not 100%.
We can sit here and nitpick the play calling all day long. But what fan of any of the 32 NFL teams would not be able to do the same damn thing? The bottom line for me is. That both games were winnable.
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
linehan
is an absolute joke. always has been. so much for his two tight ends scheme working. middle was wide open, yet there were no lions running routes there half the time. hes a dud. i agree with some of ya ll. i think they need to bump and run coverage more, with the pressure they create up front, you take away the short stuff, they will beat the holy hell out of qb’s this year. maybe win a few in the process. maybe backus will quit wiffing on blocks and staff will survive
by California Dillon's on Sep 20, 2010 10:53 PM EDT reply actions
I love this
we are only two games into the season and there are an insane amout of people jumping ship. I think that most of the people on this site thought the lions were going to win between 5 to 8 games and last time I checked there were 16 games in a season. Yes Stafford getting hurt sucks and I don’t think the lions did a good job game planning for this but the season is far from over. Lets be honest the lions are not a super bowl this year and weknew going in that are secondary would be a huge worry and big surprise it is.
The two games that we have played this year are far and away better than the last two years and that makes me happy, yea there is room for improvement but I think a lot of people forgot that the lions have won two games in the last 2 years. BE PATIENT!!!
by lionfan4life on Sep 20, 2010 11:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
good points
im not jumping ship at all. just think linehan is a dud. he has as much talent to work with as any team in the league, less shaun hill. every team tries to take away the other teams best player, yet they still seem to get them the ball, not this dud. calvin is a freak, and they never get him involved, its crazy. the team is on the rise, but linehan has to go. period
by California Dillon's on Sep 20, 2010 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
i think.......not that i matter.......
i think Schwartz IS building a team, notice I didn’t say Schwartz HAS BUILT a team, i said is building a team, i feel in 2 years maybe 3, more than half the players we have now will be gone!!!! but it takes time, I like the direction we are moving in and everyone on here talks about “getting Mayhew’d” which has become a common phrase used BY US to describe the “deals” Mayhew and Schwartz have put together. Now that being said we have traded up very well but no matter how good you are you can’t trade a nickel for five, you have to trade a nickel for a dime then trade a dime for a quarter then maybe a quarter for a dollar (ask Jerry Jones about that one). Problem is we don’t have alot of quarters right now but we are building up some pocket change, so gentleman give it time, the road to respectability isn’t far off, but it still has to be earned!!!
ok and maybe maybe every once in awhile you get a five for a nickel ( think Moss) but don’t expect Mayhew and Schwartz to be trading 7th rounders for Peyton Manning anytime soon till Stafford gets back. GIVE IT TIME GENTLEMEN!!!
seeing matt millen on espn gives me inconsolable rage.
anyway, I think linehan is getting a bad wrap for what he’s done so far this season. The running game couldn’t get going against the bears and the cover 2 took away the deep pass. Remember that good old phrase, “bend but don’t break”. The bears are the best at it and were feared before their linebackers fell to injuries. And when the starting QB was in, the lions scored 2 TDs in one half of football. Hill came in and couldn’t do anything to move the offense. This week, they got best involved in the game plan in a big way and put up 32 points on an also good eagles defense. I think we need to give it a few more weeks (or even until we see the offense with stafford in) until we judge linehan.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
I gave him a B
Even with a team with a lot of holes, he has them competitive. At this point, that’s all you can ask for.
Jeez
If I had to grade some of you guys, I’d give you an F for not being able to have a freaking debate without being overly sensitive about everything. Some of you need to learn that people can have their own opinions without making it personal just because they disagree with you. Not sure why people flip out at the first sight of disagreement.
Pride of Detroit, for Lions fans | SB Nation Detroit, for Detroit-area sports fans
Lets all chill out with some tunes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exOxUAntx8I
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
LoL here is another one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsGP3PuXx7A
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
SEAN WHAT THE F ARE YOU F'ING TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!
I can’t F’ing beleave that you are not F’ing agreeing with me that these Lions are #$ How dare you say that these Lions are
#%%#$$ ! lmao. . . .By the way we are 3-0 And we beat ND!!!!!!!!!
How many lumps you want Doc?
I Hope
the Lions stay more united as a team after two losses than some of the posters have..You nailed it Sean! And Smurf I’ll add two links to songs I did myself online to go with your links …LOL they are sooo appropriate. (Yes it’s me singing on an online karokee site)
http://www.singsnap.com/snap/watchandlisten/play/baebef8d Come Together
http://www.singsnap.com/snap/watchandlisten/play/b1b2b790 Why Can’t We Be Friends
Good stuff bud, when I saw it was you singing on karokee I was like "oh noes!"
But then I listened to them and your not bad at all, and the songs definitely fit
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Appreciate that..
As I look forward to your posts. Keep em comming!
by Big Andy Kane on Sep 21, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
it's not that linehan is a bad coach but....
It’s a mix of not so great playcalling with the overall playset being conservative. We have plenty of weapons and it hurts us to hold back so much. Throw in a couple gadgets or misdirects and every once in a while throw a mid range pass that only calvin can bring down and then everything gets a little more space. My best example of the too conservative mindset was the 4th down and short play again’st Philly. It was an awesome idea to bring Suh into the game to block in that situation. Problem is they sent him straight into where the pile is going to be. Suh isn’t going to move the pile the pile is immovable. But, if you run him to the left or right he will explode everything that is standing up in front of him and we get not only a yard but maybe a heck of a lot more than that.
seriously, who wants to take on suh with a full head of steam while he is blocking for a runner.
I nominate Drew. Nah, just kidding bro.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
on deffense....
Detroit is having the same issue as weird enough Boise State had against Virginia Tech. They get so much penetration on a regular basis it can be used against them. One of the solutions they had to come up with was like someone else posted earlier that they needed to go more man to man. That’s exactly what they need to do with also keeping most of their attention on the qb because the dline is gonna get to the qb on most downs pretty quickly. Michael Vick was the worst thing that could have happened to Detroit in that second game because he can exploit the penetration of the front four. Also with some of our blitzes we over ran Vick thinking we had to sprint to get him when all we needed was someone to make sure he knew someone was there to mess with his pass and just hold there position till help arrived.
B
I gave him a B due to the fact that our team has been close in both games. If you look at when we went 0-16, the team lost by a number of huge blowouts. At least we have been fighting through all four quarters. And that’s a direct result of the head coach’s motivation, message, and attitude.
I didn’t mind the call to not kick the field goal either. The actual plays called were a bit lame, but that’s on Linehan. And though I don’t like Linehan’s play calling these two games, I do like the fact that after every offensive series, you see him going off to the side to coach the QB. This happened all last year as well and should payoff later. Especially for the development of our young QB when he returns. We are the Lion’s and we might as well go for wins rather than ties.
Gunther doesn’t have the players yet. They have aggressive guys, but they make dumb mistakes and don’t tackle well when 1 on 1 with a player. Too many missed dives at a guy instead of hitting and wrapping up.
Defense did...
…. get 6 sacks on Vick. The problem is the secondary gives up 15 yards on 3rd and 14.
Personnally
I am glad that work and my wife took up most of my free time yesterday. Because I would probably be up on a clock tower somewhere speading alittle Lions’ love.
I said this about a year and a half ago on here. I will not judge this team or the coaching staff based on wins or loses in the first two seasons. I feel it is very nearsighted to do so. Rather, I will look for a couple of things.
1) improved play on the field. Basically, are we getting run off the field by the other team? Can you chalk up another lose by the start of the 1st quarter?
Secondly, the roster. Are we getting better? Is the talent level that is being put on the field better than the season before?
Keep in mind that there are 16 other team sites, where the fans are questioning the play calling and halftime adjustments of their headcoach.
if the shoe fits...get another one just like it - George Carlin
I asked Sefiert to take a look and give us his grade.
Not surprisingly he has agreed to. Should be interesting to hear his thoughts.
(asked as “that one guy” on his weekly chat)
One thing's for sure...
This poll tells more about the voter than the actual question.
Some are willing to vote on some sort of sliding scale based on improvement over past performance and mitigating circumstances.
Others are only willing to vote based on a comparison with the ideal.
My personal view is that Lion’s fans have been using their own grading system (basically, grading against their own past failures) for too long. It’s time to start comparing this team to the rest of the league again. It may be painful, but it’s a more honest representation of where we are as a franchise.
It’s also hard to separate coaching quality from talent quality. No doubt, some of our players let us down yesterday. But, the last two weeks have there have been plays for which the coaching staff undoubtedly must take their share of the blame.
I have yet to see the coaching staff call a play – on offense or defense – that was both unexpected and effective. The team fundamentals are also questionable (avoidable penalties, mental errors, etc) and while the players again share some of that responsibility, these are typically areas that coaches get credit when the team does well.
I gave the Schwartz a C because I cannot honestly say that the coaching staff has somehow been a “B”(above average) or “A” (could not have been better).
by Big Z in Orlando on Sep 21, 2010 3:58 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, HE. Who would of thought this topic would provoke so much passion?
Sure gets the blood flowing.
About the Grading Scale
From someone who used to teach you have to be emotionless about grading. This is not an essay question that requires and objective grade. This is one where you can look at absolutes. And it is really simple when put in the proper terms.
What percentage of the time do you think Schwartz makes an adequate decision? If that is 90% of the time then great he gets an A. Etc. Etc.
What people are doing is rolling a whole bunch of crap onto him that is not his fault. It is not his fault that the offensive line could not gain 1 yard on 4th and short. It is not his fault if the special teams coordinator sucks ass and has to be fired and replaced. Part of the problem is that there is too small of a sample size to really measure all of his decisions yet.
I cannot believe that people are calling for the offensive and defensive coordinator to be replaced or for a scheme change. It takes time to find the right personnel for a given scheme. We have had 2 drafts now and we have had to replace almost every play at almost every position, both starters and depth. So 22 players on offense, 22 on defense, and some versatile guys to fill roles as backups and special teams. Does anyone seriously think that after 2 drafts and 16 games you can implement new personnel?
Going to a new system every year is exactly what Millen did.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
You can't really outline a grading system for people, though....
Individually, each person has his own set of expectations being met or not being met by Schwartz. Obviously, that fact alone has caused some heated discussion. For some, it’s a cut and dried results only basis. For me, it was more of a contextual, progressive basis.
I agree with what you are saying, but everyone is going to look at this differently. That’s why it’s such a hot button topic. I can say that the spectrum was much wider than I expected it would be on this. I honestly thought Schwartz was very well liked and that most fans thought he was the right man for the job. I’m not sure you can give him a failing grade and still say he is the right person. That’s what I couldn’t understand about all the lower grades.
Well 70% of us did give him an A or B, and if you put the C grades in there it goes to 92%
So only 8% gave him a D or less, talk about a vocal minority. A 92% approval rating for say the President would be unheard of. I think the Schwartz is still very loved and respected, even the 70% of A and B grades is pretty amazing when you think about it.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Yeah, you're right... the grades are actually pretty good.
I guess it just felt like they were lower based on the nearly 500 relatively heated comments in this thread – most of which were defending either a high or low grade.
ohohoh
I helped!
I will agree, it is far too early to reasonably give him a grade. I am thinking 14 games, one more preseason and 4 or 5 games into next season too early. If there is a next season.
But the question was asked.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
To me it's simple...
If the results for the rest of the season continue to be what they have been in the first two games, does the grade go up, or down? It seems many are grading Schwartz on the potential for things to improve, rather than grading on what has already happened (which I believe, is the point of this poll).
In other words, if the Lions continue to play pretty good, but lose all their games, what does the coach end up with at the end of the year? To me, an F.
If the team was 1-1, I’d be much more inclined to give an A or B. 1-1 grades out to 8-8 over the course of a season.
I’m sure the poll for October’s performance will be much more telling given the small sample size so far.
by Big Z in Orlando on Sep 22, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
The grading system depends on your perspective. From my perspective, I have never seen a winning lions team, so needless to say, I don’t expect wins. If all of my enjoyment of the game came from wins and losses, I would be following the wrong team. Ultimately, Schwartz’s job is to get wins and I believe that he is doing an incredible job of building a foundation for future wins that can be sustained for a long time. In that respect, I can’t help but combine what he and mayhew have done together to construct the roster and coach these players in the right way to be productive. I can’t imagine anyone having won games already with the roster that he inherited, but I do see the foundation for the future. If he still isn’t winning next year or 2 years from now, then we’ll see.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
But the man has to get this team to produce soon.
A good coach can get the talent he has to play over their capabilities which should result in a surprise win or two. I haven’t seen that yet with Schwartz except for getting the team to give 100% effort.
He does represent the organization well though, and I believe is the right coach for the job.
I agree to extent, but let me ask you this...
Is there another coach out there that could be doing more with this team? Let’s play the hypothetical game here and say a Mike Holmgren or Bill Cowher or Tony Dungy or Jon Gruden were coaching this team. Same players. Same talent level. Would we be better off this week at Minnesota and also for the future? Would we be 2-0, unequivocally? Would the expectations of this team, coming of 2-14, have been 10ish wins versus 6ish wins if one of those guys are coaching versus Schwartz?
I don’t think any of the above coaches could squeeze a lot more blood from this stone. I think he has them playing hard and they are getting better and learning what it takes to try and get wins.
I would say that we are playing above the talent level
In a lot of areas we do not have a complete player yet. We are playing a backup QB and MLB along with a backup Nickle Back. Now we are down our number two WR for potentially 2 weeks. I am all right with the performance given the talent level. I think our offensive line pretty much sucks, yet we are not giving up the most sacks in the league. Both Backus and Raiola are on the downhill slide of sub par talent to begin with. Then you have the incredibly inconsistent Gosder over on the right side. Ironically the only good things about our offensive line are the guards, at least we can build around them in the future.
To add to that the blocking of our running backs has been horrible, Best, Felton, Brrown, none of the young guys can go an entire game without giving up a sac to a misread and misplayed block. Kevin Smith would be good if he was healthy back there, and Mo Morris should be solid back there but he cant seem to gain more than a yard or two per carry.
So just in this one case, the offensive line, I see Schwartz and his positional coaches (George Yarno and Sam Gash) getting far more out of the players than their natural talent level would provide. I could go into other examples with the line backers, secondary, and tight ends (Heller specifically), but that would take far too long.
That being said they are not getting what they need to out of the receiving corps based on the talent levels. IMO Jefferson needs to go, please hire Jerry Rice to coach our receivers! If not Rice I would rather see a guy like Rickey Prohel or Steve Largent in there. A guy who knows how to get more production on the field than what god given talent should allow.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Then why bother signing KVB if were still so lacking in talent? Why bother signing free agents if were so far away?
Going on this theory of talent holes everywhere, KVB will be long retired before we bring the talent level up to snuff.
So now were going for an O-live rebuild?
Smurfer…K.S. would make zero bit of difference if he was playing.
You sign KVB because he is a guy that makes the whole team better, again amplifying the talent level
If you go down the roster, we have some holes in starting positions, and in most back up positions. I think the talent of the defensive line speaks for itself. But really what was Turk McBride last year? Or Avril? The fact that they are improving and becoming mismatches one on one in games proves out that we have a good coaching staff too. What about SLH? Most teams deemed him less than a 5th round talent and look at how he is working out for us.
You kinda missed my point bud, I was not saying we don’t have any talent. What I was saying is that our coaches get as much or more out of our players as any other coach or team would. Just look at all of the cast offs we are working with and they are working out nicely for the most part.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
See, I don't think their as faw away talent wise as other do.
Are they young and inexperienced in a lot of areas?…oh hell ya they are.
I agree, overall talent have gone up, great trades have been made, but that goes back to what I said, the wins have to start showing up soon.
I think everyone’s outlook will change when Stafford gets back.
"learning what it takes to win"
I can see that applied to Playoff games and growth there for any sport but damn. Learning how to win regular season games? I know we have risen from the gates of hell but damn.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
Sad, but true... is it not?
I know that you don’t care for this theory, but you have to acknowledge that this is indeed a step in this team’s progression. When you have lost as many games as the Lions have, you have to learn how to finish, to be confident, to not panick, to dig deep when it matters most…. all that jazz.
The other thing we really haven’t discussed all that much is team chemistry. This plays in tandem with learning to win. You have to learn to win as a team with guys you haven’t played with before. New team, new city, new fans… It all means something. The Lions are much more turned over than most teams and there is some adjustment required. I’m not looking for you to like that part of our progression, just acknowledge that it has a bearing on things.
How can anyone possibly say another coach would have more victories....
My gut says yes. I can’t believe Gruden wouldn’t of squeaked out an extra win or two, but the way the organization had sunk to such a low level it was a good time to bring in a coach to grow and rebuild the team with. If that’s the correct theory then I expect Schwartz to be here a long time
Like I said, I truly do believe Schwartz is doing a decent job with what he was given, all I’m saying is at some point the talent excuse has to go and the wins have to start. They have had time to “coach em up” some.
I completely agree that he has them playing hard from start to finish. I’m desperate for a win not so much for the fans sake, but more for the mental state of the players, to keep giving their all.
Well, some food for thought...
Gruden was fired because he couldn’t win with the talent that he had a hand in drafting. He inherited a good team from Dungy. Once Sapp, Lynch, Alstott, Brooks and the stars that were already there left, he couldn’t get the talent around him to win. Again, just food for thought.
I agree that the “talent excuse” has to go…. when we get more talent… lol. That’s the thing. There is some, just not enough. People have high expectations for wins when the overall talent level is still relatively low. When I can look at this team and go… yeah, we’ve got good talent in most places and we should be winning… that’s when the seat gets hotter.
Dallas is a perfect example of when I would be getting pissed about wins. They have talent everywhere and can’t put it together. I think Phillips is a piss-poor head coach. That has more to do with coaching than talent. Right now, Detroit is nowhere near the talent level of Dallas… yet I think we could beat them. That’s why I gave Schwartz a “B”.
Phillips
I also am not impressed with him. To me the sons rarely live up to the father. Bum was a good motivator, but still not a great coach, maybe a good one, but not great. Wade I think is an average coach. The real issue in Dallas to me is all of the meddling that Jerry Jones does.
There is a similar situation with Al Davis. In fact the only ownership I have ever seen be involved on a positive level is the Roony’s in Pittsburgh. But then they come from a pedigree of football blood that features Hall of Fame players that actually know the game. All of these business types like Jones, Kraft, Snyder, they repeatedly hurt their teams with their meddling ways. Al Davis knew football once, but like a 70’s porn star he is just old, lonely and desperate now.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
and he probably has a rash that shots just cant make go away.
Lions fans deserve better than being the laughing stock of the NFL. Lets all hope they are heading in the right direction finally.
I think comparing jerry jones to al davis is unfair. Jerry jones does all he can to make his team flashy, high profile, and successful. I do think a better head coach would make that team a consistent winner. As for al davis, he seems like he does everything to screw his team up. Heyward-Bay was terrible and inconsistent in college. I don’t know how he thought that was a good idea.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
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