Who's with me on this one?
by lions44 on Mar 16, 2011 2:46 AM EDT
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I can't speak for other lion fans but I am so tired of hearing everyone bash on the lions pass protection. It seems like every mock has us taking a offensive lineman and there reasonings are because "The lions need to keep stafford upright' or like one I seen the other day our pass protection is horrible. I think the lions have a few needs and the pass protection is at the bottom of those needs. I personally think that pass protection isn't even at the top of our needs on the O Line. Our run blocking was really bad to put it nicely. If we added some good run blcokers I think even kevin jones could find a hole once in a while. I just wish that if someone decides to do a mock or write a story they would at least do some research first or even watch a play or two. I'm not saying our pass protection was a strength but it sure wasn't a weakness and is defientely not the reason stafford went down. I've heard so many people bash backus because he let one of the best defensive defensive ends in the game get 1 sack on him. Plus the man hasn't missed a game for us yet. I personally am a backus fan. He has stuck with us through the worst of times and I appreciate him for that alone. Sorry about the rant I just couldn't take it anymore and had to get this off my chest. If anyone knows the lions it's the POD I haven't been here real long and I don't post stuff often or even comment often but I'm on this site at least 7hrs a day ( I work nights and it's really slow) and most of the people here are very intelligent and know the game of football unlike some people over on the bleacher report. So I wanted to hear what you all had to say on this.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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I agree with you 100%
I’m sick of reading mock drafts on other sights about keeping Staff upright. We ranked either 4th or 6th in the league in pass protection and Backus was voted best in the nfc north by the north coaches. And yes our run blocking wasn’t great and if these mocks were to talk about drafting Oline to improve the run game then fine. But they don’t. Now, that’s not to say I’m against drafting Backus’ eventual replacement but not because our pass protection is weak. Also, while I think Penalteman probably could have done better had he not been injured, I think he needs replaced to improve our inside run game and I think we need an upgrade to Gandy to eventually replace Dom. Hopefully we can win a championship for Dom and Jeff to give them some sweet satisfaction after all their loyalty and hard work they’ve shown.
by Home in Cleveland, Heart in Detroit on Mar 16, 2011 3:14 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
So, someone like a
Gabe Carimi would fit the mold of a player you’d draft, right? How about Moffitt to fill the need on the inside? Our problem is that we only have 5 picks in the draft to fill 5 starting positions. Every pick has to count.
We NEED:
2- OLB’s (I like the choices in the 2nd & 3rd rounds)
1- CB (Prince A. or Harris would be a blessing at #13)
1- WR (need to find a steal in round #4)
1- OL (do we wait until the 5th round to find a run blocker or take the BPA earlier?)
by Detroitfantc on Mar 16, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I think if we draft one Olineman in the 3rd or 4th round we can find someone of good value to our line.
And yeah I do like Moffit but not Carimi.
by Home in Cleveland, Heart in Detroit on Mar 18, 2011 10:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I know
we ranked 6th and I agree about if it was to improve our run blocking then thats fine but they all bash on our ability to protect stafford when really I think the only knock I have on stafford is sometimes he holds onto the ball a bit to long and not being able to take a hit right but some of those weren’t his fault or the OLines like his first injury when he got sacked scrambling trying to throw it deep to win that game against the browns his rookie year. I would love to win a championship for 3 guys hanson,backus and dom all three deserve it but at least would love to make a deep playoff run with them on this team before they retire. plus most offensive lineman that play in this league for several years at a high level don’t even get drafted in the first round so I dont want to take one at 13 who is going to be a replacement for backus or dom the following year I want them to start for us from day one. Here’s a list of good offensive lineman who were’t even first round draft picks
kevin mawae 2nd rd 36th overall
flozell adams 2nd rd 38th
chad clifton 2nd rd 44th
matt light 2nd rd 48th
olin kreutz 3rd rd 64th
jason fabini 4th rd 111th
rob sims 4th rd 128th
matt birk 6th rd 173
and thats just names that I could recognize from like 1994 till now If I am going to take a chance on a Olineman at 13th i want him to be head a shoulders above the rest like okung was or some other guys. not someone who might replace backus WHEN he retires because there’s not a single rookie who is going to come in and knock backus out of his spot from day one.
by lions44 on Mar 16, 2011 4:41 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yards per attempt
The reason I disagree is because look at the yards per attempt. There is an article (link below) that explains how we have a pathetic yards per pass attempt. (I know some of this can be attributed to Stafford being out and Hill having a noodle arm (IMO)). If the pass protection is so good, we should be able to chuck it down field more. It’s a good read. I do agree that the mocks sound so dumb about keeping Stafford upright when he has barely gotten hit. The reasoning is incorrect. It should be more about time in the pocket.
by StaffordSuperBowlMVP on Mar 16, 2011 8:58 AM EDT reply actions
Sure.
But remember it Shaun Hill chucking the rock most of the year and to say he’s not much a deep threat passer is being nice. The guy is a dink and dunker through and through, which isn’t a bad thing. But he’s not a long armer, he’s more of the west coast style, without the mobility.
1. Jimmy Smith
2. Bruce Carter
3. Jason Pinkston
4. Kris O'Dowd
5. Greg Little
by Phreaking Mohican on Mar 16, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yards per attempt is your stance?
Why not the game film…..because i watched EVERY snap. And i am not expert but detroits pass pertection performed at a high level. If you break it down with more than a “stat” you would see it had less to do with YPA because of poor line play. It had more to do with quarterbacks switching in and out because of injury….not developing chemistry….stunting the growth of the passing game. We started 3 different quarterbacks….and we only started Stafford 3 games….come on this is common sense. Every passing attack in the NFL would suffer YPA if your using every quarterback on your roster……samething that would happen in Indy…or with the Saints…..or with the Pats….or anyone that loses their starter and has to go all the way down to their 3rd string quarterback….do you think those offences would still be dynamic enough to have the same play selection without those quarterbacks?….people that just look at a stat are really naive to come to this conclusion.
The reason behind the quarterback injuries is just bad luck. The Lions quarterbacks didn’t recieve a high volume of sacks or Hits to really come to any type of conclusion that would allow a association with poor line play? Did they play like hall of famers?…NO….but they weren’t the weakness either.
In the end if you evaluate on stats alone you will always end up with incredible justifications for anything…you have to use game film as your number 1 source……and if you looked at game film you can tell the center and guard play are the positions of concern…..NOT Jeff Backus
You can’t get me to believe out of this poor class of tackles that anyone of them would start this coming season over backus…you can’t convince me that any of them would have held Julis Peppers to one sack in two games….you can’t even look anyone in the eye and fix your lips to say that….because that would be a major leap…….fix the center and guard play and everything is fine….then draft a tackie IF needed in 2012…we may not even need to do that if Fox pans out.
So yes people not close to the Lions will say we should draft a tackle…but people who have acturally watched the games won’t tend to say this……and detroit fans that say this are usually the fans that are all into stats….i can come up with a stat to prove how detroit needs to draft a quarterback in the first round…or a kicker….won’t make it the correct choice….stats without game film to justify those situations are meaningless stats
Detroit Lions Mock Draft
1. Aldon Smith DE Mizz
2. Martez Wilson LB Illinois
3. Ras-I Dowling CB Virginia
4. Greg Little WR North Carolina
5. Stevan Ridley, RB LSU
Hey Shank
Appreciate the write up. I did include the fact Stafford barely played, and I made no mention of the injuries. I was just giving giving lions44 “some research” ( I did mention a partially agree with Lions44, the reasoning of “Keeping Stafford upright” is stupid) . The main reason we are being mocked an OT, is they can’t find a LB or Corner worth taking and OT may be BPA. I have no issue with Backus, and I am no expert as to how good someone like Tyron Smith is projected.
Lions44 was not saying that our pass protection was good, therefore if an OT is Best Move available, what do we do?. I don’t know how Fox is doing. I hope he is great. 1) Were you (or anyone) surprised at all how bad we were at long throws last year?
I like your mock. Obviously we can’t really mock a trade down, but would you be into trading down and then picking up a Guard/Center in round 3? Or are you high on Aldon? Some improvement is required in the run game so we may actually have a play action pass.
by StaffordSuperBowlMVP on Mar 16, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched the games too
and think the stat is mis leading because of so many short passes.
The statement about 3 QB’s being injured, also might be a freak thing, but again other teams
with worse offensive line stats didn’t go through three QBs having injuries every other game.
In addition, the improvement for the OLINE as a whole, is under consideration , especially when you consider the poor rushing stats, the QB injuries, the short passing yardage per attempt makes it appear to me that we could get better there.
Last year, many called for a new LT to bring Backus inside and help solidify the line
but we had to take the best player in the draft (SUH). I don’t see where that much has changed, although the line did perform admirably last year in the face of so many changes, especially down the stretch when it seemed like penalties and petermen became less of an issue.
So for what it is worth – we did fine with pas blocking last year, but the run blocking not so much.
We lost 3 QBs over the course of the season. Two of those 3 things need to improve
and maybe everyone’s power back will light it up behind these guys and we’ll learn Best was the real problem.
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Mar 16, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
@redywolf333
I changed my Mock based on draft Value. Jimmy Smith is suffering from “negative media attention”. I think value wise he would fit the value at 13……however teams may pass on him.
Aldon Smith is to me 1B….Jimmy Smith is 1A ..imho
The Lions have outstanding personel at the End position…however they don’t have a dominate player at end that demands attention…someone that can impact the game off the edge…this is mainly about ensuring Suh maintains his high level of play….and having someone outside and inside that can make plays at a high level is important ….imho
Detroit Lions Mock Draft
1. Aldon Smith DE Mizz
2. Martez Wilson LB Illinois
3. Ras-I Dowling CB Virginia
4. Greg Little WR North Carolina
5. Stevan Ridley, RB LSU
to add to that shank
not only is using all of you qb’s “stunting the growth of the passing game” you must also consider that stafford was the #1 all summer and had all the reps with CJ(our only deep threat) which means that neither Hill, nor Stanton were able to get a whole lot of time learning CJ’s speed and catching area to be able to heave it to him the way Stafford was. Couple that with Hills inability to throw the deep ball the way stafford can, and also with the fact that our “Deep Threat” which would up our “Yards Per Attempt” was facing double teams every damn play.
GO LIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am an idiot
I voted yes but i meant no…
What ever Mel and Walter say goes for alot of those hack’s out there doing mocks….
If you are in an elevator and there is a button marked "Laser Bay Two"... You push that button.
i agree
however when do we find a replacement for Backus and Dom? the 2 ageing vets days are numbered. at some point the Lions have to think of the long term future on the Oline. Fox is not the answer at LT and Gandy is not the future at center.
Sorta agree
We need to find a replacement for Dom (not Gandy) but the jury is still out on Fox.
by Home in Cleveland, Heart in Detroit on Mar 16, 2011 1:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Fox
What makes you say Fox is not the answer at LT? I’ll agree with you about Gandy tho. We need to address Dom’s replacement asap.
LeRon McClain is the back Detroit NEEDS! Make it happen Mayhew!!
he is a project
and every scouting reapot I have read about him says RT and he was not a first round prospect even if would have been healthy you can say duribility is an issue, he is a depth guy as is Gandy. It’s my hope as well as most every one else that we draft Prince, however I will not rule out Castanzo if Prince is not there.
taking out the QB’s because we dont need one this is my top 20 rankings.
Patrick Peterson CB LSU
Von Miller OLB Texas A&M
A.J. Green WR Georgia
Marcell Dareus DT Alabama
Nick Fairley DT Auburn
Robert Quinn DE North Carolina
Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska
Da’Quan Bowers DE Clemson “INJ”
J.J. Watt DE Wisconsin
Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College
Mark Ingram RB Alabama
Cameron Jordan DE California
Julio Jones WR Alabama “INJ”
Tyron Smith OT Southern California
Nate Solder OT Colorado
Adrian Clayborn DE Iowa
Ryan Kerrigan DE Purdue
Martez Wilson ILB Illinois
Mike Pouncey OG Florida
Brandon Harris CB Miami (Fla.)
I would like at least one OLineman this draft
Ideally I’d like to replace Peterman most. If I could pick only one guy it would probably be Moffit.
by Home in Cleveland, Heart in Detroit on Mar 16, 2011 1:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I wouldnt take a OLineman
unless it was the actual BPA. And I do not think any of the first round OT’s are gonna be close to the BPA, so maybe the 2nd round with PSU’s Wisniewski or in the late rounds.
So let me get this right
If there is a chance to upgrade are abillity to keep are franchise QB upright you won’t even consider it? I think if offensive line is the BPA you take it. Whatever makes the team better and increases are chances to win.
"Show me someone with an offseason and I'll show you someone in last place"- Ndamukong Suh ( All Pro, Pro Bowl, Pepsi Rookie of the year, AP defensive rookie of the year, Sporting news rookie of the year,
PCP 4 LIFE
+1
Gotta agree. Is it the most pressing need? Nope. But could our offensive line be a lot better? Sure could. I think it’s more the guard and center versus the tackles, but I think we will address that in the later rounds.
My stance is if there is a good tackle that is BPA at #13, you take him and put him in place of Peterman for now. I am not sold on him…. Cherlius is still a bit of a wildcard with the injury and some history of inconsistency. To say our offensive line is simply “set” is being short-sighted. Stop worrying about needs and start focusing on who is the most talented. I just want to draft talent.
I would agree, but
I’m still not convinced any of these LT prospects are really that much better than Fox at this point. From that standpoint do you spend 13 on a marginal upgrade over the developmental prospect?
LeRon McClain is the back Detroit NEEDS! Make it happen Mayhew!!
Nobody knows much of anything about Fox
because we got to see him for, what, half of a game this year? What I do know is that Smith has more pure talent then Fox, something that after the combine I don’t think anybody could dispute.
But does that mean he’s guaranteed to be a better NFL player then Fox? I don’t know. Nobody does, since we’ve yet to see anything from Fox.
My question, is why the hell does nobody on POD talk about Corey Hilliard? He’s only 25, and he was the first OT to come off the bench when Gos got hurt, which is as strong an indication as you can get that the Coaching Staff thinks he’s a better player then Fox.
Anytime anybody says “But we’ve got Fox!” what they really should be saying is, “But we’ve got Hilliard!”, since the coaches clearly seem to think he’s the better of the two.
you make a good point
that Hilliard should also be mentioned as in the mix as a potential replacement. Usually when discussing the OL situation I do mention him and Ugoh as I think both are as likely to be a good LT for us as any of this years crop. To mesh in with what you say about Hilliard coming in first at RT is they had Ugoh as primary backup at LT and not Fox! That does speak volumes about where they think Fox is at this point. I don’t know if that bodes well for Fox for the coming year or simply points out where they compared at that given time.
LeRon McClain is the back Detroit NEEDS! Make it happen Mayhew!!
Don't forget that Fox's knee took longer than expected to overcome
it was at that point that he could fully do his strengthening and work on the small things that accompany the LT position. We took him knowing he was hurt and would take a while to get into the form we want him. From my understanding he’s still in the process of gaining weight and strength, but is clearly bigger and better than where he was when we drafted him…I agree we don’t know much about his progress, but his place on the depth chart last year is not a good indicator of his future spot on the depth chart…
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
motown313
Remember Fox was drafted to be groomed @ LT.Corey should be the better player right now with his experience & ability 2 play both tackle positions(why he was kept over Hansen & age as well) Fox was rated as a 2nd talent coming out but injuries caused him 2 fall.He’s a project that the staff said needs to get stronger.IMO I think its the fans starting to show a little faith in the coaching staff’s ability to develope guys like Stanton,Phonso,Lojack & Turk 2 name a few.
Not to acknowledge Corey(another good addition) but I think that’s y Fox is referenced a lot.Just my take on it bro….
Agree 313
Hilliard looked good when he came in. I think the coaches put Fox in the last game because the was the first game he was physically able to play in. He did a decent job as well considering how long it had been. I think the depth at tackle is better than our depth at guard and I hope we address this issue this offseason.
by Home in Cleveland, Heart in Detroit on Mar 18, 2011 10:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I do TOTALLY agree with you Profiler....
you take the BPA ….it is my humble opinion that no tackle is worth 13th pick….combine that with what our needs are along the Line and well…yea
I do think Dom and Jeff’s days are number….but just not at the moment….imho.
Detroit Lions Mock Draft
1. Aldon Smith DE Mizz
2. Martez Wilson LB Illinois
3. Ras-I Dowling CB Virginia
4. Greg Little WR North Carolina
5. Stevan Ridley, RB LSU
exactly why mel kiper is full of hot air
tyron smith is not going to translate as a great run blocker in the nfl. best i’ve heard is that he’s an “underrated run blocker”. the last thing we need is another tight end on the o-line.
Suh for DROY!
Interesting.
for someone making a claim with absolutely no factual backing, you seem pretty confident in Smith’s lack of ability.
not that I know much
but when I see the limited film that’s readily available on Smith or USC games, Smith looks GREAT in the run game. He’s a great sealer and keeps his momentum and feet moving to sustain his blocks. He seems like he’d be good in our run scheme where we often pull and work horizontally…imo
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
Why is FREEP posting this garbage?
Seriously. It’s starting to piss me off…and I don’t care that it came from a readerStafford Needs an Offensive Line
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
I think our offensive line is decent at protecting the passer
Not great, but they do a good enough job. Poor run blockers though, which is why we need an Interior Lineman. I could deal with picking someone to eventually replace Backus, but I don’t like the idea of having a 1st rounder sit on the bench.
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
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