Call me crazy...
Men...I am a bit upset over the loss of our 7th round pick and the switch of our fifth round pick with the Chief's, because of the bullshit tampering ruling that the Lions were handed. That said, I do not feel that it is the end of the world. However, I do feel that it might change things when it comes to draft time. As such, I felt that I would go ahead and bore you yet again with another Lion's mock draft. I might expand a bit on my thoughts while I am at it, so that this is not just another list of guys I hope we pick. I hope to give insight as to why I think the Lions will pick my way, so here goes...
Round 1, Pick 13 -Again, I say call me crazy if you must but I am not too worried about our offensive tackles at this point. As such, I do not see the Lions drafting one at pick 13. I am also STILL of the feeling that there is NO outside linebacker, other than Von Miller, who is even worth a first round selection (and yes, that includes the vaunted Akeem Ayers). I very strongly believe that it will come down to either a cornerback OR a defensive end at pick 13, with an outside chance that we take a running back with the 13th pick. I do not feel that Mark Ingram is so good that he will trump all other needs and players available at pick 13 however, and due to these facts I think that the Lions actually taking a running back at 13 is a rather remote possibility.
My bet is that the Lions are strongly considering Prince Amukamara, but the problem with that is I feel the Bengals are also quite high on him. IF Patrick Peterson is selected in the top 3 picks, then I think Amukamara will go to the Bengals at pick 4. However, I strongly feel that Peterson will fall to pick 4 and become Cincinnati's pick. That should potentially allow Amukamara to fall to us at 13, and if he is there I believe that will be our pick. If he is gone, then that will leave Jimmy Smith and Brandon Harris as the two best corners left in the draft (at least in my opinion). It is entirely possible that the Bengals go with AJ Green at pick 4, passing on Peterson, and that the Browns end up with Peterson at pick 6...this would not effect our pick or position, but either way Amukamara could be the target of the 49ers at pick 7, which brings us back to Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris at 13 if we are going corner.
The issue with us going corner in that event, would be the fact that one of the big name DEs, Da'Quan Bowers, Aldon Smith or Cameron Jordan, could also be available at 13. Bowers is projected to be a top 4 pick, but he has a ton of red flags and his stock may be falling. He could easily go to Minnesota at pick 12, but it might be ultimately difficult for the Lions to pass on him if he falls to 13. Bowers is somewhat of a potential flash in the pan though, and I think his bust potential is pretty high, even though he was great for that one year. He has injury issues, possible questions about work ethic, is struggling to pass physicals lately, and has far more bad film than he has good. That said, he is a freak athlete who has a huge upside and loads of potential. Right behind him is Aldon Smith and Cam Jordan. Smith also battled injury last season, but again he is a freak athlete who is a bit raw and has huge upside. Cam Jordan is a high motor guy who was nothing short of studly at the Senior Bowl, and who had a great season last year (and one without injury). Smith projects in the top 15, while Jordan projects in the top 20...but I like Cam Jordan as the better pick for the Lions.
Jimmy Smith still projects in the top 25, and Brandon Harris is being projected in the top 40. This poses a dilemma for the Lions, in my opinion, because the Lions can not afford to trade up if they want one of these two players, being that we only have 5 picks. Unless the Lions want to sell future picks (highly unlikely), I do not see them trading up at all. I also feel that it will be quite difficult for the Lions to trade down. However, if they can trade down I believe they will. That said, if they are to stand pat with the picks they have then in all likelihood they will not get Jimmy Smith OR Brandon Harris (the last of the top tier CBs in my opinion) if they do not select one of them at pick 13. Here comes another call me crazy moment...but I do not see the defensive line depth being even remotely close to as thin as it is in our secondary, and I believe our pick is going to come down to which strategy we will be using for the draft. If it is BPA without regard to need, then I expect the Lions would take Bowers, Aldon Smith, or Cam Jordan at pick 13 should Prince Amukamara be off the board. If it is the BATFAN (best available to fill a need) strategy, then I would expect that the Lions will take one of Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris at 13 (I personally prefer Harris, but most believe that Smith is the better corner with character issues aside).
MY PICK - If I were Martin Mayhew and Co, my pick would be Brandon Harris. He was awesome at the combine, he drew accolades from Deion Sanders and Mike Mayock there, and he is a standup character who is a very hard worker. I would have no doubt that he would give 110%, and I would be happy to have him on my team. It may seem a reach at pick 13, but in my opinion his performance in the future will pay dividends and he will prove that he was worth the pick again and again...plus he would strengthen a very weak area of our defense and he would do so immediately. I will not be upset if we take Bowers, Aldon Smith, or Cam Jordan...if they are there at 13 with Amukamara gone, then they will rightfully be the BPAs. I will not be upset if Jimmy Smith is the pick, character issues be damned. But Brandon Harris is the quality pick here, in my opinion, if we are taking the BPA to fill a need...and that is exactly what I would do.
Round 2, Pick 44 -
The first pick is the most difficult one, so now I am going to shorten things up. My thinking is like this...if we went CB in round 1, then we are likely to go OLB in round 2. If we went DE in round 1, then we are likely to go CB OR OLB in round 2. That said, if Amukamara or Harris were the pick at 13, then I would expect the Lions to be looking hard at Bruce Carter and Mason Foster in round 2. Bruce Carter is a legitimate first round pick, prior to the knee injury. Mason Foster is a consistent player with great physical talent. Both are projected as 2-3 tweeners (meaning they could go in the 2nd or third round), but I do not believe that will be the case. I believe both of these guys will be gone in round 2, if not sooner. After they are gone, the talent at OLB takes a major drop off in my opinion.
If the pick at 13 were one of the aforementioned DEs, then I would still expect Bruce Carter and Mason Foster to be in the discussion. However, now you have to think about our bigger need again. We have Levy, Palmer, and Carpenter, among others, who did a pretty damn good job in 2010 already. Is the need at OLB greater than the need at CB? I say no, and as such I enter Aaron Williams, Davon House, Ras-I Dowling, Curtis Brown, and Brandon Burton into the discussion.
Aaron Williams is a 1-2 tweener whose stock was hurt at the combine. He looked more like a safety at the pro level than a corner. Davon House is an interesting prospect, who improved his 40 time from a 4.43 to a 4.35 between the combine and his pro day workout. The knock on him originally was his weight, but he bulked up to 200 lbs before the combine, and there is no doubt that the kid can cover. That said, he is still a 2-3 tweener who comes from a relatively small school that did not face a ton of big time competition. Dowling is a fast and physical corner that was originally a first round prospect before his last year in college. Injury concerns, including pulling up lame after running the 40 at the combine (still ran a 4.4), are the main concern with him, and he is now also a 2-3 tweener. Curtis Brown...arguably the best cornerback at the University of Texas last season, Brown disappointed with a 4.51 40 at the combine, but made up for it in the drills with his amazing vertical and ability to get to the ball. I've watched him play, and he plays much faster than his 40 time suggests...not to mention he is a hitter who is projected as a 2-3 tweener. Brandon Burton ran a 4.5 40 at the combine, but looked bad in the drills. He is a 2-3 tweener, but he looks more like a project than an immediate impact player.
MY PICK - Going on the premise that we picked either Amukamara or Harris in round 1, my pick here would be Bruce Carter. Carter will bounce back from the knee injury and play in 2011, and he will continue to get better and better as time goes by. Carter will easily supplant Palmer as the starting weakside OLB by year 2, and he will anchor that position for us (barring injury) for the foreseeable future. If DE were the pick in round 1, then my pick here would be Curtis Brown, not so much because he is that much better than Davon House, but more because I feel he is more proven (NFL ready) and has faced better competition (with the two players being pretty equal talent wise).
Round 3, Pick 75 -
If we have not picked a CB by now, then someone please shoot me. If we for some reason went DE/OLB in round 1 and 2, then I hope to God that CB is our number 1 priority by the 3rd round. If we went DE/CB, then I hope OLB is our #1 priority at this point. If we do what I hope we do, and pick a CB/OLB in round 1 and 2, then at this point my focus moves to the offensive line. John Moffitt is likely to be available, and he is a beast of a blocker who is also versatile enough to play either guard or center. In my opinion, he is the perfect Mayhew type of player. If we went in a different direction in rounds 1 and 2, then I hope to God that Bruce Carter or Mason Foster fall to round 3 (if we went DE/CB) or that Curtis Brown or Davon House are still available at pick 75 (if we went DE/OLB).
I have slated John Moffitt as our 3rd round pick from the beginning, and I am sticking to my guns. He would be able to start immediately at right guard, giving us a much needed push on that side of the line next to Gosder Cherilus. Potentially, Moffitt could be groomed to replace Dominic Raiola, but maybe he does so well at guard that he stays there and has a long and illustrious career. Moffitt is a great run blocker and a good pass blocker, and he would be an excellent pick at 75.
MY PICK - Assuming we drafted a CB/OLB in rounds 1 and 2, John Moffitt would be my pick here in the third round, without a doubt. If we went DE/CB in 1 and 2, then I hope we get Carter or Foster at 75. If we went DE/OLB in 1 and 2, then I hope we get Brown or House at 75. If none of those guys are available (in either scenario), then my bet would be that we target a RB in the 3rd round, and my pick would then be one of Jordan Todman, Delone Carter, or Roy Helu.
Round 4, Pick 107 -
This is where I originally figured the Lions would target a running back in this draft. If we were to draft a CB/OLB/G in rounds 1, 2, and 3, then I could see the Lions taking Delone Carter, Roy Helu, or Jordan Todman in the 4th round. Helu is the running back from Nebraska that is 6' 220 and ran a 4.42 40 at his pro day workout. He is projected as a 3-5 tweener, so I do not think it is out of the realm of possibility that he will be available at pick 107. Helu is a very good power style runner who hits it between the tackles, but can also get outside and be elusive or catch a pass (he has good hands). It is also possible that guys like Jordan Todman or Delone Carter are available at pick 107, and i would be happy with any one of the three.
MY PICK - Sticking to the ideal (in my opinion), I will assume that we went CB/OLB/G in rounds 1-3. In that case, my pick here would be Delone Carter if he is there, then Helu if Carter is not there and Helu is, and then Jordan Todman if he is there and the other 2 are gone. That said, if we went RB in round 3, I think we could do ourselves a favor by taking Deunta Williams or Ahmad Black if they are available at this point.
Round 5, Pick 154 -
Ok...so with our last pick (barring a trade down scenario), let's assume that we drafted CB/OLB/G/RB in rounds 1-4. In that case, now I see the Lions looking at a true Center or a WR. So my pool is Kris O'Dowd and Alex Linnenkohl at center, and Terrence Toliver, Austin Pettis, or Stephen Burton at WR. I might be more inclined to take a WR here, as long as we got John Moffitt somewhere along the lines. So with that said...
MY PICK - If my scenario were to play out, and the Lions went CB/OLB/G/RB in rounds 1-4 and the guard was John Moffitt (giving us the versatility of a guy who can play both C and G), then my pick here would be Austin Pettis if available. If not Pettis, then Toliver or Burton would work fine, with Burton being a very intriguing prospect. IF for some reason none of these WRs are available, then I would fall back on O'Dowd first and then Linnenkohl.
REVIEW (Mock 1):
Round 1 - CB Prince Amukamara or Brandon Harris
Round 2 - OLB Bruce Carter
Round 3 - G/C John Moffitt
Round 4 - RB Delone Carter
Round 5 - WR Austin Pettis
REVIEW (Mock 2):
Round 1 - DE Da'Quan Bowers or Cam Jordan
Round 2 - CB Curtis Brown
Round 3 - OLB Bruce Carter or Mason Foster OR G/C John Moffitt
Round 4 - RB Delone Carter
Round 5 - WR Austin Pettis or C Kris O'Dowd/C Alex Linnenkohl
2 ADDITIONAL POSSIBILITIES (of the many):
Round 1 - Cam Jordan
Round 2 - Curtis Brown
Round 3 - Delone Carter
Round 4 - Duenta Williams or Ahmad Black
Round 5 - Austin Pettis or Kris O'Dowd/Alex Linnenkohl
OR
Round 1 - Cam Jordan
Round 2 - Bruce Carter
Round 3 - John Moffitt
Round 4 - Delone Carter
Round 5 - Austin Pettis
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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Holy smurf turf batman
I found an Austin Pettis fan LOL.. Also why in one mock does Delone Carter go a full round ahead of the rest of the mocks Kdawg?
"Show me someone with an offseason and I'll show you someone in last place"- Ndamukong Suh ( All Pro, Pro Bowl, Pepsi Rookie of the year, AP defensive rookie of the year, Sporting news rookie of the year)
PCP 4 LIFE
Simple...because he will be the best RB available in both the 3rd and 4th rounds...
and we might happen to target a RB in rd 3…for the reason, read the post again…lol.
It's a terrible thing to have to tell your fans, who have waited like Detroit's have, that their team won't win it this year. But it's better than lying to them.
--Sparky Anderson
Here you go...
Assuming we drafted a CB/OLB in rounds 1 and 2, John Moffitt would be my pick here in the third round, without a doubt. If we went DE/CB in 1 and 2, then I hope we get Carter or Foster at 75. If we went DE/OLB in 1 and 2, then I hope we get Brown or House at 75. If none of those guys are available (in either scenario), then my bet would be that we target a RB in the 3rd round, and my pick would then be one of Jordan Todman, Delone Carter, or Roy Helu.
It's a terrible thing to have to tell your fans, who have waited like Detroit's have, that their team won't win it this year. But it's better than lying to them.
--Sparky Anderson
Best running back perhaps
but you know as well as I do Mayhew dosen’t reach for players. He will take the best player on the board not by postion either as long as it isn’t QB. I unserstand what your saying though I guess I missed that part.
"Show me someone with an offseason and I'll show you someone in last place"- Ndamukong Suh ( All Pro, Pro Bowl, Pepsi Rookie of the year, AP defensive rookie of the year, Sporting news rookie of the year)
PCP 4 LIFE
by The Profiler on Mar 30, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably because he was tired and distracted talking to me on the phone
I like the mock, but I’m not sold on the Lions executing it. I’m really hoping for a trade down at this point.
Thank you.
RB need?
I know that a lot of people in the Pride cite RB as one of Detroit’s major needs, but I am not one of them. We have Ian Johnson an Aaron Brown around, both guys that could develop into backups. Then, we have Maurice Morris and Jahvid Best in our starting rotation, with what I see as an option of keeping Kevin Smith around too. Felton is still the fullback for another year or so, including extra duties running the ball. We could pick up a FA RB or some undrafted guys.
The list is fairly long, and with Best on the top of it, I’m happy with our offense as it is.
Oh Yeah!!!
Not loving MoMo as a rotation
rather have him as depth. lets face he did ok behind bad run blocking. He is getting older and slower and is losing his explosion. A fantastic guy to have around some youg backs maybe give him a handful of carries a game. I don’t like the idea of him being #2 in a 1-2 punch.
"Show me someone with an offseason and I'll show you someone in last place"- Ndamukong Suh ( All Pro, Pro Bowl, Pepsi Rookie of the year, AP defensive rookie of the year, Sporting news rookie of the year)
PCP 4 LIFE
by The Profiler on Mar 30, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree completely on MoMo
One thing that stood out while re-watching the second Packers game last year was how effective Stefan Logan is as a legitimate RB. Now I don’t want him to be over used (he’s too valuable on ST), but he is an intersting x-factor to get a tad more reps (like he did near the end of last season…)
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
really???
With the moving of the kickoffs up 5 more yards, I don’t think you are going to see even half as many kick returns.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Solid point
It's a terrible thing to have to tell your fans, who have waited like Detroit's have, that their team won't win it this year. But it's better than lying to them.
--Sparky Anderson
I totally forgot about captain TV proposal...
Yeah, we do have Ian Johnson…who might get 1500 yards with a good run blocking O-line and 275-300 carries.
Too bad we are a passing team and our OL sucks at run blocking…
His status says rookie…but he has had 2 years now to make an NFL roster, and he has failed at every turn. He was on Minnesota’s practice squad, then he went to the 2010 Denver Broncos camp and was outright released. He landed in Detroit…and was placed on the PS. So what makes you think he will suddenly become relevant in Detroit? Has Aaron Brown proven that he is any better? Maurice Morris is a depth guy, not a starter or a third down back. Kevin Smith is gone…he will not be back. Felton wants out unless they make him a major part of the offense, and I don’t see that happening. So, yeah…we might need another RB (I agree with Profiler on this one too).
Is it a MAJOR need? Probably not…but it is worth a 3rd, 4th, or 5th round pick for sure in my opinion.
It's a terrible thing to have to tell your fans, who have waited like Detroit's have, that their team won't win it this year. But it's better than lying to them.
--Sparky Anderson
I could live with it
Nice logical choices. Harris may be a stretch but I think it would be worth it. I like Foster more than Carter only because of the questions with his injury. Some people are projecting Moffit in the 4th but I would use our 3rd to ensure we get him. The rb choices are ok and Pettis would be solid in the 5th.
by Home in Cleveland, Heart in Detroit on Mar 30, 2011 12:24 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yeh, I really hope those Prince Amukamura visits and stuff we have planned don't mean anything.
If I walk away with a shiny new Prince for my Bengals team, considering how much I don’t want Patrick Peterson in the first place, I’d be right pissed.
You will get one or the other...and I would bank on that
It's a terrible thing to have to tell your fans, who have waited like Detroit's have, that their team won't win it this year. But it's better than lying to them.
--Sparky Anderson
If that happens can we have Leon Hall?
"Show me someone with an offseason and I'll show you someone in last place"- Ndamukong Suh ( All Pro, Pro Bowl, Pepsi Rookie of the year, AP defensive rookie of the year, Sporting news rookie of the year)
PCP 4 LIFE
by The Profiler on Mar 30, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Personally you hit on most of my draft day wants
Now the question is do MayWartz feel the same way. I am pretty damn sure that the Lions will draft a few head scratchers. But than when the dust settles. The collective Lions Nation will say " Oh okay that makes sense."
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
P.C.P ... Now with a Richer, and Bolder flavor
Nice write up KDawg.
I don’t agree with taking Harris at # 13 though. Unless the Lions trade down I don’t see how they can justify taking a CB with the first pick [assuming Prince is gone].
I like Harris, but we have too many CBs like Harris. Small, quick, with decent speed. ie. Houston, Alphonso, and Berry. Vasher is about the same size as those guys too. Not knowing what the character concerns really are [I suspect they are more about his coachability and work ethic than getting caught underage drinking], I would go with Jimmy Smith……..after trading back at least six spots or so.
Agree with Delone Carter 100%. He should be able to be had in the fourth round.
"I read one article, I said, 'This guy doesn't know what he's talking about,' " Mayhew said. "Then I read another one, and I thought, 'Wait a minute, they're all saying the same thing.' -Martin Mayhew 2011 regarding Draft Gurus.
Size is not the issue
How would it hurt us to have another quick and relatively fast corner who has great ball skills and excellent instincts? When Deion Sanders says you are the best corner at the combine, I for one listen.
Jimmy Smith…great corner on the same level as Harris, only bigger. The main concern with him was the positive drug test in 2007. He also had two arrests for possession of alcohol as a minor, which draws concern for the possibility that he may have the personality of an addict. Add that to the facts that he has lacked maturity right up until the combine, and that he skipped the Senior Bowl (a major no no for a lot of GMs), and you have some major red flags related to this kid’s character.
I would not be worried if we picked him, as I think the term “character issues” is a load of BS anyway (character issues or not, there have been guys who were pristine that failed in the NFL and/or became criminals or addicts). The real question in my mind is how does the kid carry himself ON THE FIELD? Is he going to get torched at the next level because he has not faced elite competition at Colorado (maybe one or two guys)? Is it simply a coincidence that Colorado lost every single game they played against the bigger schools (Cal, Missouri, Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska)? They managed to beat Colorado State, Hawaii, Georgia, Iowa State, and Kansas last year…if Smith was so good, you’d think he would be more of a game changer, or that the coaches would have found ways to utilize his talents to better help them win.
Miami was 8-6, losing to Ohio State, Florida State, VA, VA Tech, South Florida, and Notre Dame…maybe not the best implement of measurement for their players, but you’re only as good as your worst player on a team.
Tom Kowalski of MLive.com believes the Lions won’t consider Smith at No. 13 overall because of the off-field concerns and says people around the league aren’t buying the positive spin about Smith’s newfound maturity.
Perhaps more damning is Kowalski’s suggestion that Smith’s "football character" faces questions too. NFL types don’t like that Smith skipped the Senior Bowl and hasn’t handled maturity questions head on.
Jeff Legwold of the Denver Post writes teams "think [Smith] might want to be a celebrity more than he wants to be a good NFL cornerback."
Kowalski hints around the same problem.
"The Lions want players who have passion for the game and a laser-like focus on football, work ethic and teammate accountability," Kowalski writes.
So do we pass on one of the 2 remaining top tier corners because of character issues or a perception that they are not worth the 13th pick overall, or should we maybe reach a bit and make sure we get one of the two?? I am in the mind of the second option if we can’t trade down.
It's a terrible thing to have to tell your fans, who have waited like Detroit's have, that their team won't win it this year. But it's better than lying to them.
--Sparky Anderson
I have always said that there is a huge difference between everyday character and football character.
If the Lions have any doubts about his work ethic and interest in becoming a great football player, then they should pass on him. No argument there.
I still don’t think that Brandon Harris is worth the # 13 pick. If the Lions really expect him to be available in the second round and they want him, they should trade back or trade up.
"I read one article, I said, 'This guy doesn't know what he's talking about,' " Mayhew said. "Then I read another one, and I thought, 'Wait a minute, they're all saying the same thing.' -Martin Mayhew 2011 regarding Draft Gurus.
by NorthLeft12 on Mar 30, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree guys...Harris is a reach at 13...
But is it better to reach for a guy who might prove to be worth the pick, or pick a player that we have no need for?
It's a terrible thing to have to tell your fans, who have waited like Detroit's have, that their team won't win it this year. But it's better than lying to them.
--Sparky Anderson
Reach for one guy...
One time…
It will set up the entire draft for the Lions after that. No matter where we pick in the top 3 rounds…the available corners are going to be a reach unless we trade down. So should we never get a corner in the draft until rounds 4-7? Should we never take a chance on a top tier guy just because he might be a bit of a reach when we pick?
I call bullshit…and i think that type of mentality is what will keep this team in mediocrity for the foreseeable future. Good enough to win 9-10 games, but never quite good enough to get over the hump and go all the way…always drafting in the middle lower half. We have to have all of the pieces…so I say sometimes you HAVE to reach.
It's a terrible thing to have to tell your fans, who have waited like Detroit's have, that their team won't win it this year. But it's better than lying to them.
--Sparky Anderson
Call me crazy...
but i would take Ingram @ 13 and trade back up into the first with NE possibly(since they tend to love doing this) for our 2nd and next years 2nd and take Harris.
That fucks us
Why would we take Ingram? I just don’t get that vein of thought..
Lets have Best have a crack at it for a season… We already used a 1st on him.
If he cant hack it, we should know by next season, then we can take a look at a RB.
Like it or not, we are a spread team… 3 WR’s a tight end and a fast back with hands… thats how we roll…
When you have the strongest arm in the NFL under center, that is what you do… throw.
All men are created equal. Its just that some men are more equal than others....
by CapitolLions on Mar 30, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
He's also not the best player at 13
Horrible pick! If we get him I will pull for him but I really hope that dosen’t happen. Shaun Alexander anyone?
"Show me someone with an offseason and I'll show you someone in last place"- Ndamukong Suh ( All Pro, Pro Bowl, Pepsi Rookie of the year, AP defensive rookie of the year, Sporting news rookie of the year)
PCP 4 LIFE
by The Profiler on Mar 30, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I see Ingram as being just like Ron Dayne..
Who wants him?
All men are created equal. Its just that some men are more equal than others....
by CapitolLions on Mar 30, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
no way he produces like Dayne
Shaun Alexander is a much better comparison (consistent producer who carried his team and went to pro bowls…)
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
Shaun Alexander was one of the best RB's of the 2000's
Hard to see Ingram being one of the best of the 10’s… IMO
All men are created equal. Its just that some men are more equal than others....
by CapitolLions on Mar 31, 2011 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions
What is it exactly that will hold Ingram back from being great?
Some have said his speed. We al know he’s not a burner, but he has excellent burst and agility – for a guy his size, I don’t see it being an issue (plenty of backs have been great in the NFL and are not any faster than Ingram). Does he not have good enough vision? I can’t speak on this other than I read he had good vision and in the games I’ve seen of him, he seems to hit the right holes and get the most yardage of the situations given him…will he not be able to break tackles in the NFL like he did in college? That’s possible, but I just don’t see it. The dude has a low center of gravity, great build in both his upper and lower body and seems to easily run through arm tackles and always fall forward, keeping his legs moving (thus the comparisons to Emmit). We’ll see, maybe I’m a homer or sometihng, but I’d like a genuine critique of Ingram to be made – most of the comments aren’t satisfying enough (not warranted with evidence, more based on a hunch rather than demonstrated weaknesses or similar players who couldn’t make it in the NFL- and no, Ron Dayne is not all that similar – he weighed 250 LBS vs Ingram’s 215…)
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
What holds anyone back?
More guys bust than don’t..
Emmit had one of the best lines in the NFL for his entire career… He also had a HOF QB and a HOF WR on the same offense to take off pressure… AND a stud lead blocker in Moose.
Emmit was good on his own, great because of his support.
I am not saying Mark isn’t good, but the dude needs breaks, just like Emmit be great. I don’t think Emmit holds a candle to the other “Greats” (Barry, Faulk, Bettis, Peyton, Dickerson, Simpson etc) and if Ingram is an emmit clone, but gets barry sanders supporting cast, he will be average, at best.
All men are created equal. Its just that some men are more equal than others....
by CapitolLions on Mar 31, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey Capitol.
How great would Twa Aikman and Mike (coked up) Irvin have really been without that front line???? I sure don’t think they would have won any SB’s without that front 5.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I know.... that what I am saying.
Hence
Emmit had one of the best lines in the NFL for his entire career…
All men are created equal. Its just that some men are more equal than others....
by CapitolLions on Mar 31, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I know CAP
I was just adding that I don’t think Twa and Show boat would have been HOF’ers without that line.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Ah, I dig.
All men are created equal. Its just that some men are more equal than others....
by CapitolLions on Mar 31, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
In all likelyhood
Ingram will be the top talent at his position left on the board. besides Safety and possibly OT. But we all know who will be starting on the OL and 1st round picks aren’t used for depth as we all know. Its a tough call to make so i will not make any predictions but if Akumara and Peterson are gone by 13 and Ingram is there i wouldn’t put it past the Lions to pick him.(not a prediction just a possibility. LOL)
Depends on whose board you use
Ingram is currently the 3rd back on my board that I want the Lions to pursue behind Leshore and Thomas. Imo he’s not the type of power running back we need.
by Home in Cleveland, Heart in Detroit on Mar 30, 2011 12:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with Delone Carter RB.
Getting him in the fourth is much better than Leshoure in the second or Thomas in the third IMO.
"I read one article, I said, 'This guy doesn't know what he's talking about,' " Mayhew said. "Then I read another one, and I thought, 'Wait a minute, they're all saying the same thing.' -Martin Mayhew 2011 regarding Draft Gurus.
by NorthLeft12 on Mar 30, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
i licke your draft but hate your 1strd pick of haris i just think he is more of a 2rd pick then a 1strd pick the lions would have not had jimmy smith in for a vist if they wernt thinking of drafting him in the 1strd out of the 2cb you picked in the 1strd who has about the same size and skill set as the the 1cb inthis draft class perterson ?. that cb is jimmy smith not haris why do isay this in your post you said that 3cbs that you said that could be late 1strd picks all have the same skills as haris and one ras-i dowling was ranked in the top 20picks before he got hurt in his las year in collage it cost him being the in the top 3cb s in this draft class just licke carter would have ben 2olb drafted in 1srd this year draft had he not hurt his knee . and most licke might have ben the lions pick at 13 pick in this draft . also the only way the the lions draft a ot in the 1strd is if they think gosder cherilus will be out for long time next year he trying to come back from maijoer knee proleams that some times tack e a full year to be healthy just lock how long it tock fox to be ready to play last year and hillared played ok for the lions lastyear but he also got hurt and will be coming back from knee proleams so the lions have 3ot on the roster with knee proleams and that why if they ot in the 1strd they ourtrying to draft a right ot to start next year and to get one who might be nfl ready they might have to pas s on some great cbs and de in this draft class idonot think they will but if they do that will be the reasion
you and I
pretty much are thinking the same things here…good stuff
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
Rev
If the draft played out in any of the ways you have up above (esp 1 or 2) I would be in 7th heaven. I still feel that Prince will be there when we draft at #13 and I think our FO might surprise us all and pass on him reguardless.With KVB getting up there in age coach might try and grab his future replacement in the first round this year.And your point about going after a certain MICHIGANDER from Flint at the RB position is a definite possibility, talk about a 1; 2 punch in the backfield.The mis-match’s that Best and Ingram would create with Grew and Megatron and Nate. . . . . .oooooo, thats going to be hard for Mayhew to pass up. I hope we do get Prince but hey who knows what all the other 12 teams GM’s are thinking. I will say this if 3 QB’s go before we draft then Prince WILL be there when we draft.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I quite like your mocks KD
My personal favourite would be this:
1. Jordan (Harris or Smith might just be a touch to much of a reach).
2. Curtis Brown
3. Mason Foster
4. Delune Carter
5. Alex Linnekohl
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
Do you think we would rotate Jordan in
on more of running downs? I could see him shoring up our line in that area. Not sure he’s an improvement in pass rushing over Avril, KVB, or Jackson…maybe over Turk though…
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
McBride is a beast...
And he is also young. I think Cam jordan would be a potential future replacement for KVB…thus his value at 13.
It's a terrible thing to have to tell your fans, who have waited like Detroit's have, that their team won't win it this year. But it's better than lying to them.
--Sparky Anderson
I think you'll see him on running downs
Lawrence and Turk are pretty good pass rush specialist.
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on Mar 31, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions

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