Debunked
Alright...I wanted to address a certain person's statements, which have been extremely over stated over the course of the past few months here on POD, and just see how the so called rankings hold up versus actual game log statistics. First of all, here are the statements in question (not including the we only have 2 linebackers BS):
You guys are happy with:
29th vs TE
26th vs slot
24th vs run
19th vs RBBut you see a need to improve:
2nd vs num 2 WR
10th vs num 1 WR
What I am going to do is list statistical facts from each of the Lion's 16 games last season, and compare them to the above rankings. We'll just see how bad we REALLY were vs TEs and RBs. See, the rankings listed above are based on DVOA (Defense-adjusted Value Over Average), and these rankings do NOT include sacks or passes with no intended receiver listed, in regard to DVOA of defense against receivers. My point (to be followed by my opinion) is this; How can you accurately rank, and then subsequently single out, specific positional players that are part of a TEAM defense, when you are first removing the very statistics that were the TEAM'S greatest asset? Let me expand after the jump...
The idea behind the DVOA is actually pretty intelligent, and could be quite useful when applied in the proper context by the right people.
DVOA is a method of evaluating teams, units, or players. It takes every single play during the NFL season and compares each one to a league-average baseline based on situation. DVOA measures not just yardage, but yardage towards a first down
: five yards on third-and-4 are worth more than five yards on first-and-10 and much more than five yards on third-and-12. Red zone plays are worth more than other plays. Performance is also adjusted for the quality of the opponent. DVOA is a percentage, so a team with a DVOA of 10.0% is 10 percent better than the average team, and a quarterback with a DVOA of -20.0% is 20 percent worse than the average quarterback. Because DVOA measures scoring, defenses are better when they are negative. For more detail, read below.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods
The major issue I have with this method of ranking, especially if we are going to attempt to use it to justify NEED based on positional value in regard to drafting college prospects, is that the data is compiled based on a comparison to a league-average baseline based on situation. The Lions DO NOT play every game, or even every situational down, versus a mythical AVERAGE...and that is my first point of debunkage.
Next, when considering DVOA of defense against SPECIFIC receivers, the method REMOVES sacks and passes that were not intended for any specific receiver. That is all well and good, because the idea is to create a ranking, again, based on a league average situational baseline, where the ENTIRE defense actually has to finish a play that was not ended by a sack or an incomplete pass to the towel boy on the sideline. However, this method DOES NOT accurately rank INDIVIDUAL players on the TEAM defense, and it is INTENDED as a COMPARISON to a MYTHICAL AVERAGE TEAM, BASED ON SITUATIONAL INSTANCES!! That is my second point of debunkage.
Now, keeping all of that in mind let us examine the REAL statistics on a game by game basis from the Lion's 2010 season.
Game 1 - Lions vs Bears:
TE Greg Olsen had 4 catches for 46 yards. He was easily contained by our linebackers.
Chicago's WRs combined for 9 catches for 140 yards...5 catches for 71 yards went to the slot receiver, Devin Aromashodu, against our NICKLE CORNER (who happened to be Jonathon Wade at the time). Again, slot receivers are NOT the responsibility of the linebackers in any NORMAL situation, and if they are it is ALWAYS a mismatch. If the Lions are consistently lining linebackers up to cover slot receivers, then there is a issue with COACHING, not linebackers.
RBs Matt Forte and Chester Taylor combined for 79 yards rushing. Looks like we did pretty well there vs the run.
Where we really got dinged against the Bears was by RB Matt Forte, who had 7 catches for 151 yards...including an 89 yard TD and a 28 yard TD. 117 yards and 2 TDs came on 2 pass plays that turned into explosion plays. Clearly the linebackers were at least partially at fault here, as they allowed Forte to get past them and into the secondary. However, take the "explosion" out of those two plays, perhaps with another corner who is excellent at closing on the ball (enter Prince Amaukamara or Brandon Harris) and maybe Forte has 7 catches for 45 yards and no TDs and the Lions win by 2 TDs, without even considering the bad call on the "process" play.
Game 2 - Lions vs Eagles:
TE Brent Celek had 3 catches for 27 yards. Again, our linebackers had no trouble with him in coverage.
Philly's WRs combined for 12 catches and 228 yards with 2 TDs...1 to Maclin and 1 to Jackson. WR1 DeSean Jackson had 4 catches for 135 yards and a TD (53 long) against Chris Houston, our CB1. Maclin had 3 catches for 26 yards and a TD against our CB2. The slot guy didn't do jack shi*...and he's not the responsibility of the linebackers anyway. The RBs were also pretty non-existent in the passing game for the Eagles...McCoy had 4 catches for 8 yards. Again, it looks like our linebackers did a pretty solid job in coverage.
The main problem against Philadelphia was our apparent inability to stop the run, which is 50% the fault of the defensive line and 50% the fault of the linebackers (without trying to say that 3% each, or something like that, fell on the CBs and Safeties). LeSean McCoy had 120 yards rushing and 3 rushing TDs, with a long run of 46 yards. There is no question that we have NEED at both linebacker and cornerback, but again I feel WLB was our weak point, and I think that can be adequately addressed in the 2nd round by drafting ONE linebacker.
**NOTE - Jahvid Best had 9 catches for 154 yards and a a 75 yard TD in this game...he scored the long TD by running right past good ol Ernie Sims, the Eagles WLB.
Game 3 - Lions vs Vikings:
TE Vinsanthe Shiancoe had 1 catch for 7 yards, and all Viking TEs combined for 4 catches for 34 yards...need I say more?
Minnesota's WRs combined for 14 catches, 137 yards, and 1 TD...6 catches, 62 yards, and a TD of that going to one WR1 Percy Harvin. I think it is needless to say that the slot guy didn't do anything again in this game.
Once again the Lion's had trouble stopping the run against one of the biggest, fastest, and most powerful running backs in the NFL. Adrian Peterson rushed for 160 yards and 2 TDs, with 5 catches for 30 yards to boot. He had an explosion run of 80 yards for a TD, otherwise he would have had one short yardage TD and just 80 yards rushing. The TEAM defense failed to stop the big play here, once again, and the blame falls on everyone. Yes, the defensive line failed to wrap him up. Yes, the Linebackers failed to wrap him up and they allowed him to get free in the secondary. Yes, the common theme here is that once the RB is in the secondary against Detroit, you can count on a minimum 20 yard gain! Again, maybe if we had another corner who was solid in run support then these explosion plays would happen less often. My point is NOT that we do not need a LB in the draft...never has been. My point is that we need a CB and a LB, and I feel we will do ourselves justice by getting the CB first and the LB second.
Game 4 - Lions vs Packers:
This one is simple...the Lions contained one of the best QBs in the league, allowing just 181 yards passing. They had 2 INTs versus Rodgers, but they also allowed 3 TD passes (one of which was a 48 yard strike to Donald Driver...CB anyone?). Greg Jennings also had a TD catch and so did TE Jermichael Finley, but those two combined for just 6 catches and 61 yards otherwise (Finley had 4 for 36). Stop that ONE deep ball and we win...plain and simple. The linebackers and the D-line did an outstanding job, as none of the Packer RBs had more than 39 yards rushing, and none of them scored.
Game 5 - Lions vs Rams:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....blowout! Danny Amendola was their only hope, with 12 catches for 95 yards...try blaming that on the linebackers...
Game 6 - Lions vs Giants:
TE Kevin Boss had 2 catches for 27 yards and TE Travis Beckham had 1 catch for a 1 yard TD...
WRs Steve Smith (6 for 70), and Mario Manningham (4 for 51 and a TD) did most of the damage in the passing game against our CB1 and CB2. The rest of the WRs combined for 5 catches and 18 yards.
Again the issue was stopping the run. Ahmad Bradshaw had 133 yards rushing and 2 catches for 10 yards, but the scoring was done in short yardage by Brandon Jacobs (35 yards and 2 TDs). Yep...it baffles me that we have such a good D-line and we can't bottle these guys up, but maybe our D-line is more focused towards creating pressure on the QB (I think that is pretty obvious). We need to work on plugging gaps on running downs for sure, and again I agree that we need another LB to shore up the weak side (round 2...that's all I have to say). A good run supporting CB in round 1 and a fast, hard hitting, rangy linebacker in round 2 should do wonders for us in this department.
Game 7 - Lions vs Redskins:
TE Chris Cooley had 4 catches for 48 yards and TE Fred Davis had 1 catch for 9 yards...
WRs Anthony Armstrong (3 for 92) and Santana Moss (6 for 56) did a majority of the damage in the passing game, with the rest of the Washington WRs combining for 1 catch for 2 yards (uhhh...it was just Joey Galloway actually).
The Washington RBs, Keiland Williams and Ryan Torain, combined for 35 yards rushing and 1 rushing TD by Williams, while also catching 6 passes for 47 yards and 1 receiving TD by Torain.
The defense was on fire in this game (nobody on the opposing team did any major damage), and the offense seemed to be firing on all cylinders...Stafford had 4 TD passes and the Lions won their second game of the season.
Game 8 - Lions vs Jets (The 2010 POD outing):
As mentioned, I had the pleasure of joining several of our POD members for this game...and I tell you our only downfall was Braylon Edwards and Santonio Holmes.
TE Dustin Keller had 4 catches for 59 yards...
WRs Santonio Holmes and Braylon Edwards combined for 8 catches for 192 yards and a TD...the fateful TD being on a 74 yard bomb in OT to Edwards, to win the game for New York. Before that, Edwards had been held to 2 catches for 4 yards, while Santonio Holmes had 5 cathces for 114 yards (52 long). The rest of the Jets WRs (just Cothchery) combined for 2 catches for 29 yards. Our defense did an excellent job containing the entire Jet offense...if it were not for a couple of bad plays where they got beat deep. We had that game in the bag...and it was a disappointing way to lose.
The Jet RBs, Tomlinson and Green, combined for 101 yards rushing and no rushing TDs (55 for LT and 46 for Greene). Tomlinson did his usual deal in the passing game, catching 6 passes for 47 yards, while Greene had 2 catches for 9 yards. Neither RB found the end zone in the game. Our linebackers and D-line did a great job once again.
Game 9 - Lions vs Bills:
This game was a one man show for the Bills. Fred Jacskon scored both of their TDs, went off for 133 yards rushing and a rushing TD, and had 6 catches for 37 yards and a receiving TD. The Lions simply could not score in this game, even with CJ catching 10 balls for 109 yards and a TD. This all goes back to all of the rest of the games where the RB beat us...we DO need a CB and a LB, that much is obvious, but the Bills WRs and TEs did not do a damn thing against us (just adding to continue debunking our vulnerablility against TEs in the LB corp).
Game 10 - Lions vs Cowboys:
This was a pathetic game in more ways than one. The Lion's defense was not one of those ways.
TE Jason Witten, one of the best in the NFL, had 4 catches for 48 yards...
WRs Roy Williams, Dez Bryant, and Miles Austin combined for a whopping 7 catches for 35 yards...but they also had 3 TDs...2 to Austin (3 and 4 yards) and 1 to Bryant (1 yard).
RBs Jones, Barber, and Choice combined for 94 yards rushing and no rushing TDs (Jones was best with 51 yards), and 6 catches for 64 and no TDs receiving (3 for 35 to Jones was tops).
What broke the camel's back in this game was field position, untimely turnovers, piss poor special teams (the Lions gave up a 97 yard punt return TD in this game), and a 29 yard run(?!?!) by Jon Kitna?!?!?! Christ...broken containment by the DE on that side, with our LBs in coverage, allowed that atrocity...in other words you can't blame our linebackers or corners for the fact that our offense only scored twice in the game (add in the Rayner FG and the safety and we scored 19).
Game 11 - Lions vs Patriots:
Another case of atrocious play by the secondary in the second half...and you get a blowout on Turkey day...
TE Rob Gronkowski had 5 catches for 65 yards (the best performance by any TE vs the Lions thus far), TE Alge Crumpler had 1 catch for 27 yards, and TE Aaron Hernandez had 1 catch for 18 yards. For the first time in the 2010 season the Lion's linebackers gave up over 100 yards to opposing TEs...against arguably the best QB in the NFL (top 2 minimum). That said...they did not score.
WRs Deion Branch and Wes Welker killed us...Branch had 3 catches for 113 yards and 2 TDs (one a 79 yd TD) and Welker had 8 catches for 90 yds and 2 TDs. Neither of these guys are the responsibility of the linebackers...so who was the problem? Yeah...
RB Ben Green-Ellis also chipped in 2 rushing TDs on 59 yards rushing (one of which was a 15 yard run up the middle, the other a 1 yard run up the middle).
The rest of the Patriot team did very little on offense (3 catches for 28 yards and 49 yards rushing)...but 4 TD passes by Tom Brady? Hard to win like that...very hard indeed...and we were WINNING at halftime by a TD!!
Game 12 - Lions vs Bears:
All I can say about this is ughhh...despite attempted heroics by Drew Stanton, the story of this game was Earl Bennett, Matt Forte, and Chester Taylor.
TE Greg Olsen had 1 catch for 5 yards...DAMN IT! Where are our LBs?? That said, a TE did chip in a TD in this game for the Bears, as Brandon Manumaleuna had 2 catches for 23 yards and the game winning 7 yard TD catch in the 4th quarter.
RBs Matt Forte and Chester Taylor were held in much closer check in the passing game this time around, as they combined for 7 catches and 67 yards with no receiving TDs. However, Forte managed to rush for 64 yards and a 14 yard TD, while Taylor managed 33 yards and a 1 yard TD on the ground. Both of the scores by the running backs were set up by the 7 catches for 104 yards by WR Earl Bennett, who had a field day everywhere he lined up against our secondary. Take Bennett out of the equation, by adding another cornerback who can cover and removing one who isn;t so good at doing such, and I see a dominant game by the Lion's defense.
Game 13 - Lions vs Packers (here's where it gets fun):
I was also at this game, thanks to SLH for the tickets and some lucky driving through the winter ice storm by myself. There is definitely not a lot to say for the Packer offense in this one, as Rodgers got KTFO and the Detroit D was NOT havin it in OUR house that day!
TE Andrew Quarless (who?) had 5 catches for 62 yards...and that was their best player for the game.
Flynn tried to spread the ball to everyone on the team, to the effect that nobody was able to do anything...4 catches for 52 yards was the best they could come up with, after Quarless, and that was by Greg Jennings.
The Packer RBs rushed for 34 yards and 5 catches for 35 yards...no TDs...
The Lions won their 3rd game of the season by a score of 7-3 on a FUC***G beautiful 13 yard pass from Stanton to Will Heller for the game winning TD, on the late 4th quarter game winning drive.
Game 14 - Lions vs Buccaneers:
TEs Kellen Winslow Jr, John Gilmore, and Ryan Purvis combined for 6 catches and 55 yards (4 for 46 by Winslow)...again, no big gainers by the TEs as the LBs did a great job containing them...
WR Mike Williams had 6 catches for 96 yards and a TD...wonder who was covering him? Hint: It was not a linebacker. The rest of the Tampa trash combined for 5 catches and 54 yards...no TDs.
Again the majority of the damage was done by the opposing running game. RB LaGarrette Blount rushed for 110 yards and a 39 yard TD. RB Cadillac Williams rushed for 38 yards and had 2 catches for 26 yards. There was nothing out of the ordinary here...just a solid attack on the ground vs a team weak against power backs (up the middle, and on the weak side...but up the middle is mostly due to a lack of support on the weak side and by the corners and safeties...I say we need one of each, unless Eric Coleman already answers that bell). This game was a kick fest...
Oh yeah...we won our 4th game of the season in OT, thanks largely in part to a huge game by #5.
Game 15 - Lions vs Dolphins:
TEs Mickey Shuler and Anthony Fasano combined for 4 catches and 75 yards with no scores...nothing special and pretty well defended by our linebackers...
WR Brandon "I'll stab you bitch" Marshall (who finally got stabbed himself for once) had 10 catches for 102 yards and no TDs, while Devonne Bess had 5 catches for 34 yards and a TD. Neither guy, again, is the responsibility of a linebacker in coverage...and if he is, it is a mistake by the coordinator. The rest of the WRs for Miami combined for 2 catches for 12 yards.
RBs Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams combined for 108 yards rushing and a 1 yard TD (Brown), while collecting a combined 8 catches for 55 yards and no scores receiving. Again...damage was done in the running game, and the issue must be addressed, but there is no need for 3 linebackers to be drafted by the Lions.
The Lions won their 5th game of the season, thanks to a LINEBACKER...as DeAndre Levy picked off Chad Henne and ran it back 30 yards for the game winning TD.
Game 16 - Lions vs Vikings:
HA!! No Favre, no problem...the Vikings did not score an offensive TD in this game! Jared Allen had a 36 yard pick 6 against Shaun Hill, and Longwell booted 2 FGs...and that was all she wrote!
TEs Kleinsasser and Shiancoe combined for 4 catches for 35 yards and no TDs...
WR Percy Harvin was the best player for the Vikings on this day, catching 8 balls for 69 yards and no TDs. The rest of the WRs managed to combine for 3 catches and 29 yards.
RB Adrian Peterson got handled too. He was only allowed 31 yards rushing, no TDs, and 2 catches for -2 yards! No Favre, no Peterson...NO VIKINGS! Gerhart had 12 yards rushing and 1 catch for 6 yards.
The dual threat of Joe Webb didn't even get anywhere on the ground, as he was held to 35 yards rushing. I'd dare say it put the value of Mike Vick into perspective, and Webb is no Mike Vick.
The Lions won their 6th and final game of the season...bringing their record to 6-10.
Conclusion:
In closing...I think it is blatantly obvious that the DVOA rankings were NOT used in the proper context, when the rankings were attempted to be used as a factual basis, to support the idea that we NEED to draft 3 linebackers or that linebacker is a greater NEED than CB. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the DVOA rankings mentioned are completely IRRELEVANT to this discussion, outside of the fact that they do show we struggle against the run...which in turn proves that we do need help at LB and CB. However, the idea that we were ranked #2 against the WR2 and 10th vs WR1 look to be WAY OFF base...so I am not so sure I believe a damn thing that was posted there. In short...theory DEBUNKED.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
479 comments
|
8 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
still a need LBs no matter how you "stat it"
everyone seemed to click and play well down the stretch
making the dbs and lbs look service-able.
Watching the earlier games, it always felt like a big run or play by the rb was going to happen as much as it felt like a wr was going to make a big play.
IMO
The DL was beastly but had so many big penalties in those early games, as well as the OL, having as much to do with the situations and loses as anything else.
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Apr 25, 2011 3:47 PM EDT reply actions
I agree
I never said that we do not need a LB. I just think a corner is the bigger need.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Wish it was draft day wish it was draft day wish it was draft day wish it was draft day wish it was draft day
yeah yeah definitley wish it was draft day….
"It’s always interesting to me, and funny, when I read that somebody says we’re not going to take an offensive player or we’re not going to take a certain player or whatever, because I don’t even know who we’re going to take right now, so I’m not sure how somebody else could know," - Martin Mayhew
PCP 4 LIFE
Those numbers are based on a MYTHICAL AVERAGE
That does not EXIST.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Yeah ok...
If you can’t see it, then you are dumber than I thought.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
exolne how what we did vs ecah player matters?? look at how good they did vs us compared to other teams is the point
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
In your little mind maybe...
But you point is irrelevant in mine. The rankings you posted are not indiciative of the ACTUAL results.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Oh yeah...
To the tune of 4 catches for 48 yards…are you kidding me?
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
THEY
It is a team…there are more than 1 LB…
Clearly, you did not even read the post…you just jumped in and started running your fucking mouth.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Wow...
You can’t back up the statements with any relevant facts…but you sure can run off at the head. You are dead wrong.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
our LBs dod suck dude.. i am soorrey but they are a complet joke
i mean look at carpenter he has been on diffrent teams and people are praying to the gods that we can resigne him.. how said is that.. one of the bigg bust at the LB postion in last 5 year or w/e and we are hopeing we can get him… if that dosnt scare the shit out of you i dont know what will
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
our LBs do suck dude.. i am sorry but they are a complete joke
i mean look at carpenter he has been on different teams and people are praying to the gods that we can resign him.. how said is that.. one of the big bust at the LB position in last 5 year or w/e and we are hoping we can get him… if that doesn’t scare the shit out of you i don’t know what will
even levy you all hype him up like there is no tomorey but other then that pick he hasnt done very much imo.. i want a greenway.. a briggs.. a urlacer.. not a guy that woulf be a back up on most teams.. and 4 or 5 guys that should be i the cfl
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
he did two things
how about the one that won us the packer game. they were in close to our endzone and pick off matt flynn. they were marching down the field before it happen.
quit being a bi*ch and get over your man love for ayers dud
read the freaking article and give it up
"If you don't invest very much, then defeat doesn't hurt very much and winning is not very exciting." ~Dick Vermeil
"Some people watch adult videos on their computer. I go to YouTube and watch Jahvid Best highlight clips. That's what gets me aroused." ~Jim Schwartz
aparently you dont undrestand...
we where still on of the worst vs the TE RB and slot
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
What, may I ask, is your first language?
by SweetLouDoubleU on Apr 26, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
He said
We were still one of the worst vs the TE RB and slot…
It’s called mushmouth…lol

If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Back it up with facts...
Carpenter and Levy are both still young and upcoming players. Nothing you have said proves that they suck. You just have a problem with them and can’t see the forest through the trees.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Irrelevant
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
how so?? how meny probowls have been on 4 team in there 1st 5 years??
a state i wouls really like to know
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Well he was drafted by the Cowboys
Was cut after 3 years, jumped across two teams’ offseason rosters, and landed on the Lions..
Not exactly 4 teams in 4 years, or however you want to spin it… he tried out for 3 teams and made one last year, and contributed with little preparation… I don’t know what you’re expecting out of Akeem Ayers, but I have a feeling youll be disappointed…. See: Aaron Curry.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Cmon man, really?
I argue for a living, and you’re going to pose that as an argument?
That’s ridiculous. Come correct before you try and stand up for a position you obviously are just opinionated about.
Having an opinion is fine, you can be wrong by yourself. But do not try to posit it as fact. That will make you a fool.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Yeah, I know that's probably what people were saying about Brett Favre
You know, since the Falcons didn’t want him and all
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
In his first year it was 2 teams in 1 year
Lets give Carpenter another 15 years in the league and reasess.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Dude
Yes, Brett Favre was traded.
Bobby Carpenter was not re-signed after his 4 year contract was up.
He tried out with Miami and St. Louis, and was not offered a contract.
You can’t say that because a guy didn’t immediately get signed he’s worthless. He arguably showed more last year than he has in 4 years, which LOGICALLY means we should probably hang onto him.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
yea
its not a good sign when STL cuts you, when their OLBs aren’t a whole lot better than ours…
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
He may not have fit the scheme
He may not have been the size the DC/HC/LB coach, etc, wanted. There are MANY reasons players are not retained or signed.
And I stand (semi) corrected. He was TRADED to the Rams. Cut, immediately signed by MIA, and then cut less than a month later.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
ya
we dont know the exact reason, but four teams in six seasons isn’t a good sign no matter how you put it.
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
This box is getting too small
But I will say that I will take a former 1st rounder at league minimum or whatever Carpenter is making and see if he can still start.
The guy wasn’t a stud in college for no reason. Plenty of players simply need to be in the right situation.
I just simply cannot see that as a reason to overdraft someone like Ayers.
The drop in draft value from Ayers to Campbell or Foster is much less precipitous than from Amukamara/Jimmy Smith to Ras-I or Aaron whatshisface
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
well those are two separate arguemtns
I would agree that we don’t need to overdraft Ayers. I Think Mayhew hates that idea more than me or you do.
As far as Carpenter goes: I would pay him based on what he did in college or where he was picked. He was on the roster last year, the coaches have a very good idea of what he can do, so if they think he is worth their money, then I am more than fine with it.
If they decide that Carpenter was just a one year filler/emergency, then so be it.
…and yes this box be gettin too small…
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
nobody saw Carpenter as being a significant piece
and he had been labeled soft in Dallas….
He showed promise but has to have some flags being that he didn’t show as much at previous stops
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Apr 25, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Det 32
Just for the record here bro. . . Favre 2 teams in 18 years? I remember him in a GB uni;a JETS uni; and a Vikings uni. . .Thats 3 teams not 2…..
How many lumps you want Doc?
Don't forget Atlanta
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Favre
selected in the second round of the 1991 NFL Draft by Atlanta (33rd overall). He was traded to Green Bay on February 10, 1992, for the 19th pick in the 1992 NFL Draft.
Favre became the Packers’ starting quarterback in the fourth game of the 1992 season, and started every game through the 2007 season.2 He was traded to the New York Jets and started at quarterback for the 2008 season before signing with the Vikings on August 18, 2009 as their starting quarterback.3 He made an NFL record 297 consecutive starts (321 including playoffs).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Favre
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Carp is not a 3-4 backer
never was one in college.
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
....and you think Akeem Ayers is the next Briggs/Urlacher/Greenway?
That’s not a rhetorical question.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
I can't disagree with that
But that’s not your argument. You said you want an All-Pro LB. If that’s the case, why are you advocating drafting a bunch of nobodies and maybes to do that?
If anything, you should be pulling hard for Von Miller or a FA. This whole argument is illogical.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Ayers is pretty highly ranked by most
what maybe top 40 to 50 players
one of the top LBs
he may or may not be probowl, we don’t know
but right now he’s got a chance like the rest of the top 40 or 50 plus players
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Apr 25, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
he may or may not be probowl, we don’t know
but right now he’s got a chance like the rest of the top 40 or 50 plus players
The same can be said for any player… that’s my point. You draft the most talented player you can. Not a position that needs a player.
det’s argument says we need to draft Ayers because he plays LB, not because he’s the most talented player we can attain. I disagree with that assessment. The difference between a Houston and an Amukamara is much greater than one between Carpenter and Ayers.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
The difference between a Houston and an Amukamara is much greater than one between Carpenter and Ayers.
i stongly disagree…
rookie CB take longer then rookie LBs..
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
I highly doubt Amukamara or Peterson will have a huge learning curve
Maybe a 2nd/3rd rounder, but these guys will be just fine. That point doesn’t apply as greatly to the top talent in drafts typically.
And, by the way, none of that is 100% fact. Its completely dependant on the player.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
thats true
but you can find decent LBs in any round…cant say the same about corners tho
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
Who is that 1 guy in Steeler country that's a PB LB'r????
You know the guy who got cut during training camp and was out of football his rookie year…. What’s his name again?? Point is NO ONE can ever tell how good a guy is going to be at any position until they actually play at this level. Determination is a HUGE contributor to a LB’r elevation at this level and face it bro Ayers didn’t have it at the collage level it’s been stated all over the place on tape and by every so called know it all, he does not have the drive to be great in a 4-3 scheme. Maybe 1 day he may be good but until he gets his head out of his ass and quits taking plays off he is just going to be an average LB at best. Hell he reminds me of Big-baby, I might try real hard on this play but then I’m going to take the next 2 plays off. Is that what you really want for our LB’s
How many lumps you want Doc?
James Harrison...and THANK YOU
He was actually cut FOUR times!
2002-2003
No team drafted him, fearing he was too short (six feet) to play linebacker, and too light (240 pounds) to play on the defensive line. A few teams did send him training camp invites.5 The Steelers signed Harrison as an undrafted rookie in 2002, making him the first Kent State alumnus to play at linebacker for the team since Hall of Famer Jack Lambert.
Harrison spent two years on and off the practice squad for the Steelers, being released three times, and was also briefly on the active roster towards the end of the 2002 season, playing only special teams. Teammate and fellow linebacker James Farrior later told NFL Network that Harrison was so green early on in his career that he would simply "give up" on plays he was struggling on and would even ask the coaches not to play him when he was struggling.6 Farrior said, “He was a knucklehead that didn’t know the plays. We’d be in practice, in training camp, and he might not know what he doing so he’d just stop and throw his hands up and tell (the coaches) to get him out of there. We thought the guy was crazy.”7
Harrison wore number 93 during this period before adopting his current number 92, which at the time was worn by fellow linebacker and Pro Bowler Jason Gildon.
[edit] 2004
He was signed by Buffalo in late 2003, then sent to the Rhein Fire of NFL Europe, but eventually cut by the Bills.2 After being cut for a fourth time, Harrison considered not playing anymore. Shortly after, he was signed a fourth time by the Steelers during training camp in 2004 after Clark Haggans sustained an injury in an offseason weightlifting accident. Showing much improvement, Harrison made the final roster and has remained with the Steelers since. Harrison later told the Beaver County Times that if not for Haggans’s injury, he planned to retire from football at age 26 to focus on becoming a veterinarian, something that Harrison still plans on doing after his football career ends. Harrison also considered following in his father’s footsteps and become a truck driver,6 and to this day does have a commercial driver’s license.8
Throughout the 2004 season, Harrison mostly played defenceive back with occasional reps at d- end. His first career start came against his hometown Cleveland Browns in Cleveland on November 14 after teammate Joey Porter and Browns running back William Green were ejected for fighting during the pregame warm-ups. Harrison had a good game statistically in the Steelers’ 24–10 victory against their hated rival.
Harrison scored his first career touchdown on a fumble recovery in the final week of the season against the Buffalo Bills.
[edit] 2005-2006
Harrison started in three games of the 2005 season when starting linebacker Clark Haggans was injured. His biggest highlight of the year was in a game against the San Diego Chargers, where he intercepted a Drew Brees pass for a 25 yard return. During the return, he made a huge leap over LaDainian Tomlinson, the Chargers star running back.
Harrison gained some attention and popularity when he restrained a Cleveland Browns fan during a 41-0 Pittsburgh win on Christmas Eve. The intoxicated fan had was on the field when Harrison grabbed the man and put him on the ground. Harrison restrained the fan until authorities took him away.9
The Steelers went on to win Super Bowl XL that season. Although Harrison was not a major factor in the game, he did play and earn a Super Bowl ring with the team, recording a team-high three special teams tackles.
[edit] 2007
In the 2007 offseason, with longtime head coach Bill Cowher resigning after 15 seasons and Mike Tomlin taking over the reins, the Steelers controversially cut Joey Porter for salary cap reasons. Although the Steelers drafted two linebackers with their first two picks that year (Lawrence Timmons and LaMarr Woodley), Harrison was appointed the starter in place of Porter. The decision would ultimately pay off, as Harrison would go on to have a breakout season and earn his first trip to the Pro Bowl, making All-Pro as a starter on the AFC squad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harrison_%28American_football%29
The rest is history…
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
ya but
you can’t look at one exceptional case and say that that is the norm of the NFL. More often than not, a guy gets cut more than twice, then he probably aint worth much
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
by Latif Masud on Apr 25, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
That's just 1 case I know.
Cause for every Harrison there is a Ray Lewis. And urlacher was a S in collage but Mathews was a LB. I mean you can just tell if a guy has the desire to play hard at a certain position or if the guy is just there for a pay check(Peterson). Ayers took plays off threw out his entire campaign at UCLA in every game and in every quarter and every drive. That is not the kind of guy I want our Lions to draft in the first round or the 7th round. period.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Why not?
You can see the future and tell us it is fact. So why can’t we quote fact and tell you it is relevant?
Oh....it most certainly IS relavant...
It PROVES beyond a reasonable doubt that no matter what anyone thinks or says, or how many times a player has been cut etc, that a player CAN turn things around and become good enough to be ALL PRO…and that was mine and Davis’s point here.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Doh...relevant
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
more then liklley that isnt the case..
how meny probowlers have been on 4 teams. in there firest 5 years??
his carreer is 1/2 way overer and he has been on more teams then most players have for there fully carrer… and he still hasnt amunted to shit
so find me the number of proboelers that where on 4 teams in there firest 5 years..
then tell me how meny turned out to be bust..
bet you anything the bust is the higher number
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
How many of these PB players are actually
doing it in their first 4 years? And Ray Lewis didn’t do it all by himself, neither did Urlacher or Harrison; Or most of the now dominant LB’s. they all needed someone else who was good in front of them and behind them so that they can do what they do. The only LB to come on the scene and blow it up in recent memory are guys who were cheating the system and playing with ROID RAGE! Mathews is the exception and he has the best back 4 in the game so he does not have to worry about coverage. Add to the fact that he is more of a pass rush specialist cause I saw him get burned in coverage quiet a few times last year when he was asked to cover.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Huh?
Who? Baltimore? The Bears? The Packers?
Hardly.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
not the packers...
but we defitly have better CBs then the ravens stealers and bears
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
You think so?
Josh Wilson and Dominique Foxworth (Baltimore) are at least as good as Chris Houston, if not better (in Wilson’s case)
Charles Tillman is a fantastic corner (Bears), and the Steelers have Ike Taylor and Bryant McFadden, who was a big target for teams last year.
So yeah… That’s total bullshit. Not to mention the safety play all 3 of those teams are used to (outside of maybe CHI), their secondaries are very good.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
the bears ranked 20th in pass D.. the ravens ranked 21st
the steelers where 12th.. but allowed just 4 more yards
if we had some LBs there is no doubt in my mind we would have to 5 pass D
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
and if your counting all year
steelers ar like 73 yards less
keep in mind none of thes teams had the injure problum at CB like we did
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Maybe those other teams D Line is not as good as the Lions.
Stats are not allows truthful.
by LeyandsMarlboros on Apr 26, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
lol the ravens steelers and bears all have very good DLs dude… and very good LBs
what that dont have is CBs
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
OK STOP IT RIGHT NOW DET32
You just said that none of those teams had the injury problems that our team did at the CB position but you forgot we had 1 starting LB for the entire season and he was benched and cut as soon as we could find anyone that could tackle. Levy missed half the season and we NEVER had our other OLB for the entire season. Yet you want to talk about how bad our LB’s were hell ya they were bad they were on the sidelines the hole damn year!
How many lumps you want Doc?
And with that
I’m done with this thread.
No more wall banging.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
wouldn't it be funny if his name was Harvey
“harvey Wallbanger”
okay..I give up...be your self!
by randalljwhite on Apr 26, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The point is...
It is possible Carpenter COULD become a pro bowler…you can’t count him out.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
The guy has moved from system to system
With everyone giving up on him and not letting him settle in, in any one place. I liked his game and spirit late last year, and with a little confidence building and coaching which these assistants seem to be good at, I have not doubt he’ll produce at a high level.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Plus he was in the wrong scheme before...
Now he is where he belongs, in a 4-3.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
I'd love to have him
At pick 44.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
rather take Bruce Carter
By my accounts, we already have an option on the strong side in either Carpenter or Palmer. Weakside is critical in a 4-3
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
Agreed
But if we have to have Ayers…lol…not before pick 44…that was what I meant.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
want a greenway.. a briggs.. a urlacer..
Good luck with that.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
dream maybe but rather build towards that drem then a dream of
aso and rives
aso rives <<<<<<< greenway briggs urlacer..
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Jennings didn't really do a whole lot early because the team was built around getting the ball to Finley.
In the second game, he had Matt Flynn throwing to him. GB struggled mightily with Detroit last year. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to upgrade to make that true of all teams.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
The point he is making...
Is that when you look at averages, they tend to obscure the details that are often more relevant to why the Lions won or lost games. For example, when Matt Forte catches a six yard pass then takes it down the sideline for a TD, that does not mean that the linebackers suck at pass coverage. Sure, when you see it on the scoresheet it looks like a long touchdown pass. But the truth is that it was a short pass and people did not fight through blocks and tackle. The reason that Forte got to the end zone is every bit as much about safety and cornerback play as it is about linebacker play.
That is why your stats mean nothing. They are too generalized to actually tell you why the Lions lost the game.
Well put
That’s exactly the point I am trying to make.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
but the LBs let him complet the pas.. the LBs should have batted it down or tackled him there
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
I thought you were done on this thread...lol
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
I agree, this is all apple and oranges debatable shit.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
I disagree
I think the blame should be equally spread to each player on the defense, and i do not believe it is any more the fault of the linebackers than I do the defensive line, cornerbacks, and safeties. As such, I look to draft the best positional player available, to fill a need…and I believe that should be a cornerback in round 1.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
CB/DE in round 1
You all know I have wanted to get Avril’s butt in a reserve roll for 2 years now.He has taken steps forward especially last year, but he is not the answer at DE that we need. If somehow Bowers should fall into our laps at #13 it will be tough to pass on the guy. Otherwise grab us that damn CB so we can groom him to be our #1/ #2 pending what happens in FA. Could you all imagine if Houston and Phonz were forced to be our #3 and #4 CB’s on this roster due to being out played by a rookie and maybe say Asu? That would give us 1 of the best D-lines and best set of CB’s in the league. I think that if somehow this dream of mine came to be, it would cover up any glaring issues we may have at the LB position.
How many lumps you want Doc?
it starts with the LB.. and who ever its starts with is most defitley the one a fault
it not the CBs job to babyes site every thing the LBs to.. the LBs should be able to handel the job on there own ours cant
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
32
Ours played catch up all of last season, because of all the injuries that we sustained during the training camp and Pre-season. Ya you are right our LB play was bad last year but all these ALL-PRO’s and HOF LB’s that you want top keep talking about how often are they playing with a different guy every single week??? Give our FO and coaches a chance to get these guys in and see what we actually have cause weather you want to admit it or not they Palmer and Carp played awesome for us if you consider the facts that they were guys that had NO TIME to learn our system and had no cohesion with the guys that played in front and behind them not to even talk about Levy was getting into game shape about the time we picked them up. Having trust in the guy that is next to you goes a long way in the argument for all the PB players and All-Pro players you want to talk about.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Lets role play DET 32
We are the Lions and we are in game 12 of the year. We just had 2 of our starters go down and we have a chance to trade and get ANY PB LB that you want to bring in (cause we are that great) Name me 1 LB at ANY position who could come in during the middle of the week and start and play at the level that these 2 did. !
How many lumps you want Doc?
You sir are the dumbest twat I have ever met in my life
You’re wrong…end of story.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
lol
I just can’t wrap my head around how blind he is…I feel it is my duty to show him the light! lol
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
maybe that is the problem.. maybe you have been staring into the sun and that whay you dont see the LB problem
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Like I said before...
I never said we do not have a LB problem…just not one as bad as you would like to paint it.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
What?
When your average CB is not capable of making a play, then there is often nobody between the receiver and the end zone. But if a linebacker misses a play there are still CBs and safeties behind them to cover. I am sorry, but you are just flat wrong about that.
blah blah blah
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
i know in your worl our LBs are allredey gods.. but that just isnt the case...
with the pass rush we have it is much easyer to get by with avg CB core then it is a well below avg LB core
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Yeah ok
Read and comprehend…put down your Everclear and the crack pipe for a minute.
I NEVER SAID WE DO NOT NEED ANY OTHER LINEBACKERS. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ENGLISH??
And guess what? The majority of the damage done against the Lions last season was done by running backs on the ground. The D-line, linebackers, corners, and safeties are ALL to blame for that…as a TEAM.
The second most damage was done by WR1 and WR2…LOOK AT THE STATS! Why is that the case?? Because our corners were susceptible to the DEEP ball and against the quick and shifty SLOT guys…NOT THE LINEBACKERS.
Yes we need LB help, but we also need CB help. We can get a LB in round 2 that is on the same level as your boyfriend…but we CAN NOT get a CB in round 2 that matches up to Amukamara, Harris, or Smith (Peterson will be gone and we won’t be trading up for him).
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
by KDawg on Apr 25, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i dont know why you think we can get a quilty LB in the 2nd this year..
most of them will be gone.. we can how eve get a very good CB..
this CB class is insaley good
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
most of them will be gone
What LB are going early? Miller is op 10, and Ayers/Wilson are late first-early 2nd. Foster is a 2nd. Who else will go before your second pick? You have a great shot at Foster (even though you don’t like him). The LBs are not very good this year. So even early guys likely won’t make a ton of impact.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
Oops, I forgot Carter.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
carter standvent jones and foster will all be gone befor 44 i think..
so prety much anyone the should start.. CB on the other hand is a very deep this year
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Why do you think they'll all be gone?
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
I think all 4 will still be there
Carter goes first of those
okay..I give up...be your self!
by randalljwhite on Apr 25, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
You are on drugs
No way that Carter, Jones, Foster and Sturdivant will all go so early if linebackers are so weak in this draft. You are contradicting yourself now.
Your might want to change your tune on that.
Akeem Ayers has fallen so far down most draft boards that he is drafted in the second round more often than the first in the more recent mocks. So if you claim there are not going to be any good linebackers in the second round, you are also dinging your boy Ayers.
nobody works harder for Ayers
than this guy. Every comment,stat,theory is skewed so that if you believe his position,you gotta pick Ayers
okay..I give up...be your self!
by randalljwhite on Apr 25, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Our linebackers, according to rotoworld...
Levy, Dizon, Ekejiuba, Follett are under contract.
Campbell and Palmer are exclusive rights free agents. Meaning they have to sign with the Lions or they can’t play for anyone.
Not a great group, but that is 6, which is nowhere near 2.
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Dizon cut
Ekejiuba is a FA
Campbell RFA(like you said
Palmer RFA(like you said
you cat count RFAs.. " dont count your chickens befor the hatch"
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Not RFA's, EFA's Exclusive rights free agents
“Exclusive-Rights Free Agents are players who have completed between 0-2 accrued seasons of service whose contracts have expired. If tendered, they have no negotiating rights with other clubs and must sign their tender with their old club or sit out the season.”
Those aren’t eggs, they are Chickens.
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
they HAVE to play for the lions
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
They will be...bank on it
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Dizon will be resigned to half the dumbass Millen contract he initially signed.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
That's possible
But only as a special teamer if that is the case, I hope.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Dizon is sort of like the Stanton of the D.
3 different schemes, no chance the first year under Mr. pound the rock……he has the speed, maybe not the size. I’d hate to think that unless he lost serious speed that they wouldn’t at least give him a camp tryout.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Dizon did put on some weight last off season
I believe he is up to 238lb now.
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
Great a 5'11 240lb chub running around LOL
No really I like Dizon, he was never given a full chance and blew his knee out at the worst time. I hope he gets one more shot…
Irrelevant
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Irrelevant as a means to prove your point and agenda
You are using the fact that we only have 2 linebackers under contract, in an attempt to leverage your agenda that we HAVE to draft Ayers in round 1 and then 2 more linebackers in the draft.
The true fact though is that we will have 5 linebackers under contract as soon as we can sign them, and Ayers is NOT a 1st round need.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Houston has made it clear he wants to persue FA
you’re saying we can’t count on the RFA/ERFAs LBers to resign but you’re gonna count on a URFA to come back?
"The right (draft) move sometimes might be to strengthen a strength. Filling holes in the 1st round leads to grabs and busts." - Steve_Chiefs.
he said"i would like to test FA but in the end sign with Detroit"
not that worried
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
I would be
the Lions allready offered a tender to him and he didn’t take it.
I’m not counting on Houston coming back which would leave the Phonz as our #1 CB. I’m not into the PCP likesome other folks.
The Lions need both LBers and CBs
"The right (draft) move sometimes might be to strengthen a strength. Filling holes in the 1st round leads to grabs and busts." - Steve_Chiefs.
Honestly
I’m not worried about Houston leaving. The free agent corner class is pretty deep. Best case, we get someone like Jonathan Joseph or Carlos Rogers (not sure if he fits the scheme). Worst case, we land a cast away in a guy like Richard Marshall. We also cant discount the fact that Mayhew may pull some trade magic and get us a guy no one expects
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
Of course you're not that worried....
It suits your opinion and agenda!
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Truthfully though...
I am not worried about Houston either…but we still need another CB. Our nickle back got torched on too many occasions last year to ignore.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Something about what DET32 said up above.
They are not under contract and you said or they can sit out and not play. Do you really think a guy who has trained his hole life if not going to resign because he does not want to be here? A place that gave them both the chance to start and play at a high level again. Behind 1 of the best young lines in the game. . . And you don’t think they will resign……
How many lumps you want Doc?
Your Math is as bad as your English.
6 doesn’t equal 2. Maybe we need an off season Math work out post.
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
once aghien
Dizon cut
Ekejiuba is a FA
Campbell RFA(like you said
Palmer RFA(like you said
6-4 is 2 man
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
You know nothing about football
I will never answer you again, You are a fool and I shun you
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I Think hes on this...
Technically the Lions do only have two LBs if you don’t count the ERFAs…
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
Oh, he is technically correct on this idea...
But it is idle conjecture…because we all know that those ERFAs will be playing in Detroit this year, and even the RFAs and UFAs if that becomes the case.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
thats not entirely true
My bet is that Caleb Campbell gets released, and that Carpenter becomes a UFA in the next CBA. Right now, its anyone guess
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
Carpenter will re-sign
That is my point. Caleb Campbell is a special teamer or a backup anyway…if he goes, he is easy to replace.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Technically
levy, follet, ekejiuba dizon (4) all are under contract. We own the rights to the other two and will have them signed sooner than anyone we take in the draft. who is your math teacher. 4 doesn’t equal 2 either.
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
You are a fool.
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't imagine you would understand this but here is the link.
http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/det/
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Another link
Don’t see anything about ekejiuba or dizon being cut yet,
http://www.detroitlions.com/news/transactions.html
If you have a link, lets see it
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
dizon hasnt but he will so no point in counting him..
eke wasnt cut he is a FA
i belive our FO over any link you can pull up dude
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
All he's asking is for you to provide your own link where Meyhew said that.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
He doesn't have a link
He massages the numbers to get his desired result. In this thread alone he as much as admitted that. He makes up facts to get people worked up. He is like a bad child who keeps doing wrong things to get attention, he won’t stop till people stop giving him attention.
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I read somewhere that Dizon would be cut
I am not sure where though. He just refuses to search for the article to back his arguments.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
even so REV
He is still under contract as of now that is a fact, so we have 3 under contract. I mean he keeps throwing it out there that we technically only have 2 but in all reality we have 3.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Ekejiuba is signed thru 2011
2011: $700,000, 2012: Free Agent
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
not both of em
Ashlee Palmer should be a ERFA based on old rules, while Carpenter could very well be a UFA
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
carp is a free agent, I said campbell
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Caleb?
He’s also a ERFA, but he’s not exactly starting material…
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
He is a line backer
and we own his rights, that was the argument
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
And...
Dizon is still under contract
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
he is going to be released per Mayhew...
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
Good riddance
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Just saying he is under contract
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Latif
I know that Mayhew has said that he would be released, but the point there is consistency. Mayhew has also said that they would offer Carpenter. We already know that Mayhew wants Palmer back because he said that Palmer and Carpenter could be the starters. If Mayhew is to be believed about Dizon being cut then he shoudl also be believed about bringing back the others.
My problem is that det32 will give credibility to one statement then tell you that you cannot count on the others. He is not consistent.
the difference is
If Mayhew says he wants to cut player X, then he is gone
If Mayhew says he wants resign player Y, then it just means there is better chance than before that player Y comes back..
Not trying to defend det32 here, but thats the way I look at it
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
sort of
it is stretching it for ERFAs but they do still (technically) have the right to not sign the contract even though that means that they have to sit out a season
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
By this logic all our draft picks can do the same thing.
That is a silly argument to get behind brother.
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
i said techinically
obviously its gonna happen
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
by Latif Masud on Apr 25, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Then you must agree that
We actually have 4 LBs under contract. which was the original statement I made.
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
sigh no...
speaking in strict terms, we DO NOT have 4 LBs on the roster
speaking in terms of what we can expect: yes have 4 LBs
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
by Latif Masud on Apr 25, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
read the above links I provided
or provide links that say otherwise. We definately have what I say, as far as my research goes. Unless you are being a contrarian, provide evidence to the contrary. C’mon de-facto editor of Blue and silver pride, reach into your blogosphere and provide some evidence instead of just making empty statements to backup that loudmouth
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I was a bit off
I forgot that they signed Zack Follet to a contract and that they have yet to release Dizon, though they plan to, so that does make it 4 right now.
btw, anyone want to run Blue and Silver Pride? Its kinda just sitting there….
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
In terms of what we can expect it is 6 LB's
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 25, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Camp fodder.
Your arguing about nothing. 2-4-6? What does it matter?
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
The truth matters.
I made a statement with research to back it up and the dipshit refuses to acknowlege that research or provide research to the contrary and continues to spread lies. then this guy, with the same amount of facts and research, backs him and his lies up. What does it matter to you? Do you like being lied to, over and over?
It's pronounced "en-DOM-ah-ken", but you can call me Kenny.
"The Detroit Disassembly Line" - Bring Your Hard Hat!!
by TheMiniBarAtTheStaffordArms on Apr 26, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
but we dont...
eke is not under contact dude.. both M and JS have commented on that
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Why can you claim to know the future...
with your predictions about who will be drafted in certain rounds and how good Ayers will be, but when we make a much more likely prediction, like the ERFAs will sign with Detroit, then that isn’t valid?
Once again, you are just full of double standards.
He is signed thru 2011
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
Dawg...
You get props from me for doing this.
That said, it’s useless. The situation has degenerated into Ralphie-esque crap…
The draft just needs to get here so we don’t have to see those stats again…
I really don’t bear you any ill will det… its just time to let all this go. It’s gone past annoying and is now just boring. I do feel that this post was warranted though.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
depends what you mean by warranted..
it doesnt matter that we only gave up 46 yards to witten
for the hole season added together we where one of the worst in the game.. what happened in the individual games is pointless
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Wrong again
You can’t get in in your little pee brain that YOUR FACTS WERE JUNK! Your “rankings” do not relate to what really happened on the field!
The was only ONE game all season long that the Lions allowed over 100 yards to TEs…and that was against the Patriots.
TEs only scored on us a grand total of TWICE all year!!
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Read the post A-HOLE!
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
....dude.... that's the only thing that matters.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
no.. no it isnt...
other teams matter to b/c if they did better vs us it shows that our LBs are worse then the other teams..
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
It all up there...
If you read the post.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Nice post KDawg
it brings many facts to the forefront. However, I do have to agree with det32 a little on this point. You bring up the fact that we only allowed 100 yds to TEs once this season, but what is a “good” game for TEs? They don’t get 100 yds nearly as much as receivers do, so to an extent TE yards have to be compared to TE yards allowed by other teams. Also, while they are not normally the responsibility of the LBs the opposing WRs can be their responsibility if the D is in zone coverage or if in man coverage the WRs are doing crossing routes and come underneath.
So, while your stats do not tell the whole story, they do back up my belief, which is that we need upgrades to both CB (so we have good coverage on WR1 and WR2 and can put the Phonz on the slot man) as well as LB (while the coverage could be improved, the run D must be improved, and this falls more on the shoulders of the LBs than the secondary).
And I agree that better talent at LB can be found in later rounds than at CB (even though the CB draft is deep in talent, typically good ones are had in the first 1.5 rounds, while LB talent can be found later and I think this class is deep in later round LB talent).
Pretty much my point Adam
However, we only allowed 3 TDs to TEs all year, and only one time did TEs gain over 100 yards against us (the 2nd most was 67 yards)…and that was done by 3 different TEs in one game (against Brady and the Pats).
A good game is fine in my opinion…but I would not consider our LBs to be poor in coverage just because a TE had a “good” game when compared to a baseline average. If we were consistently giving up TDs to TEs throughout the year, and these TEs were putting up huge numbers (I do not count 4 for 48 to be huge), then I think you could make a case.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Yeah, I have to agree
only 3 TDs allowed to TEs all season says at the very least the red zone coverage of TEs is good.
So the Lions only gave up 2 TDs to TEs all year?
Considering 190 TDs were scored by TEs through the course of the season – for an average of 5.9 per team – that would seem to suggest the Lions were pretty good when it came to covering TEs – at least in the red zone. I definitely think the position of LB needs to be addressed in the draft (I’m hoping for Carter in the 2nd), but this certainly is an interesting piece of information.
by Stephen02120 on Apr 25, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
Only 2 TDs were scored by any TE last year vs the Lions.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with KD on this one.
I see it completely the opposite. Combined statistics paint the wrong picture. I don’t give a shit what ranking we were at the end of the year. I wante to see our individual games improve, because if you didn’t read the great article above, you wouldn’t have gathered that many of the games we lost we lost by one defensive play…
This isn’t a case of total ineptitude by either unit (CB or LB), but this IS a passing league, and I’d rather see us restock with a great young CB.
Ultimately though, what huge difference is it between a great CB who can tackle well and a good LB who can cover well?
Its basically a wash, I don’t think it requires us fighting World War III over it.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Also, I never bothered asking
But where the hell did you get those numbers from? I’ve never seen a source outside of your comments, so I’m still under the assumption you just made them up.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
He got them from Profootballtalk...
I linked it in my post.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
pro footbal focus.. someone gave them to me on the mocking site that pays for there servies
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Fair enough.
Though I’d still have to read the criteria before they were even relevant. You can take statistics out of context very easily.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
They aren't remotely relevant
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Hardly
Dawg has given both a context and goal to his statistical observations… They prove his point, and are clear of extraneous or obviously opinion based conclusions… I cannot say the same for you.
Above is a clear and simple analysis on our roster’s performance vs each group you outlined, and those statistics, game to game, player to player, do not support your conclusion or ‘facts’.
Maybe others will see otherwise, but you can’t really argue that.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
by Nate D. on Apr 25, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks Nate
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
I'm really not taking any sides
Other than the side of logic. I’m a philosophy student…. I need things to make sense
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Too funny
That all you got? Nice comeback…that ranks up there with “Nuh uh…you’re Mom!”
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
What am I missing? Why would you still want Ayers in coverage with these numbers already?
anyway you cut it we where still
29th vs TE
26th vs slot
24th vs run
19th vs RB
I would be more then happy with CB in the 1st then LB in the 2nd, just as long as that LB has speed and isn’t a slow tank like AA happens to be.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Bruce Carter in round 2 would suit my tastes
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Carter will be lucky to be gone by the end of the 2nd.
I could easily see him dropping to the 3rd, and would risk it… I’d rather see an LB in the 3rd… get LeShoure or Williams in the 2nd
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
I could live with that too
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Oh hell ya.
Just as long as we get speed. The right type of player is needed to fit this scheme. I think Carpenter is just fine here, at least as a backup.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
I think so too Nate. I can't see him gone by the 13th in the 2nd.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Why is that?
I never understood
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Teams with the same record
move up a spot with each other in each rd. SF will move to the back of the 6-10 line in rd 2, Tenn in rd 3, Dal in rd 4 etc. Lions will have the 12th pick in rd 2, the 11th in rd3, 10th in rd 4…
"The right (draft) move sometimes might be to strengthen a strength. Filling holes in the 1st round leads to grabs and busts." - Steve_Chiefs.
Or Mason Foster
that dude would really help against the gashing runs
"The right (draft) move sometimes might be to strengthen a strength. Filling holes in the 1st round leads to grabs and busts." - Steve_Chiefs.
Foster in the 3rd would be good as well
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
More conjecture from the King of Literal Quotes
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
there is just to much need for LBs this year.. i am thinking recored for most LBs taken in the 1st kind of need
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
You're basing your arguement on NEED
Lions have a bunch of holes, Amigo. Yes, Ayers would fill a hole but theres a damn good chance a better overall player will slide to the Lions at pick 13.
The only mocks I have seen with Prince getting past 13 were made by Jaguars fans while I have seen plenty of mocks by professional writers/scouts/insiders that have Ayers slip to the 2nd rd.
"The right (draft) move sometimes might be to strengthen a strength. Filling holes in the 1st round leads to grabs and busts." - Steve_Chiefs.
BPA is what teams base their draftboards on
picking just out of NEED is how the Lions achieved 0-16
"The right (draft) move sometimes might be to strengthen a strength. Filling holes in the 1st round leads to grabs and busts." - Steve_Chiefs.
wrong
if anything BPA got us to 0-16.. millen drafted the best player no matter what systume he fit best.. or what we needed…
so far MM has gone all by neeed
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
The ONLY time Millen drafted BPA
was Calvin. All the other early picks were targeting specific positions just to fill a need/hole.
If Mayhew had drafted for NEED, the Lions would have Malualuga and not Delmas, Oher and not Pettigrew, Okung and not Suh, etc.
"The right (draft) move sometimes might be to strengthen a strength. Filling holes in the 1st round leads to grabs and busts." - Steve_Chiefs.
no he drafted WR ever year b/c he felt they where the BPA...we dint need CJ when we tock him either
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Yeah...because we had the future HoF Roy E Williams...LOL
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
roy wasnt bad for us.. wasnt CJ.. but wasnt bad
i would take him back over BJ and ect
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
point is we had bigger needs at that time...
millen main probably was his total disregard for players that fit the system.. in his different though we where changing it every year(though it was his fault it was changing so much)
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Calvin Johnson was the best player available
And according to the people you like to quote so much, and take such pride in saying that you believe them over all others, MAYHEW has said many times that he will draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE REGARDLESS OF NEED. But guess what? Things change and what a person said to the media months ago may not still hold as absolute truth….I know, shocking reality isn’t it?
My guess is that they will take more of a BATFAN approach this year. They will draft the best available player that fills a need.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
which is juts about any position on the roster
BATFAN that is… or at least that argument can be made and position isn’t so solid as to not need a BPA, including QB (tho very doubtful)
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Apr 25, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
No, he drafted WR every year to try and make Joey successful
the Mike Williams pick is a perfect example of that
"The right (draft) move sometimes might be to strengthen a strength. Filling holes in the 1st round leads to grabs and busts." - Steve_Chiefs.
I did
If only he had produced for us like he did for Seattle last year…
But wait…he got cut by us, so he must now suck for all eternity right?
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
yess he can retire with his signing bonus
and move onto something else with his time
I don’t need to see him get it together for the seahawks
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Apr 25, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Really Sims????
I hated that pick. And the comment about Millen taking BPA where in the world did you come up with that? If that was the case we would have drafted Moss who we let slide past us so that a divisional rival could draft him. Moss was all everything coming out of collage but you will find a way to use the “character line here” all because he smoked some weed in school. Because no other player has ever smoked some weed in collage. Especially all those florida schools players who are not only smoking pot and robbing stores but most likely doing coke as well.
How many lumps you want Doc?
ok you hated that pick
but in a lot of “mocks” that people so love, MW was also being taken high, and might’ve been thought of as the top player in the draft had he not had to sit out that season…
but what I meant was… many draft pundits and fans rated Millen’s drafts highly (B-A level) after the picks were made, but down the road those guys just never seemed to pan out or ended up being that good.
but I’m not defending Millen, just pointing out that no one really knows with the draft and some can’t miss guys miss, while others make it.
As it relates to this post, no one knows for sure what kind of pro Ayers will be or if it is reaching for an LB at a particular spot.
I think we could use help at the LB, and DB, and OL… well my list goes on and on
and think we just need to get a guy who will be top of his game with our first picks.
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Apr 26, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
We drafted a WR every year because Millen thought we needed this high flying passing game
It didnt pan out for him year after year but then finally there really was a freak of nature and he had to take him (Calvin Johnson) because he was the best available. So the way I read it was the WR’s we drafted it goes NEED-Bust, NEED-Bust, NEED-Bust, BPA-Good Pick
We’re just not in a good place as a franchise to mess this draft up with over valuing players. Just need to see what falls to us
Matthew Stafford, Quarterback: a man barely alive, Gentlemen we can rebuild him, We have the technology, We have the capability to make the worlds first bionic QB, Matthew Stafford will be that man, Better than he was before
Better, Stronger, Faster
Millen was stuck in the Al Davis mentality
I don’t think there is anybody in the NFL that has blown more picks on WRs than Al Davis.
DET32...I give you props for sticking to your guns for months on end under withering abuse....lol
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Most of those numbers shows just how F-up'ed Julian Peterson played.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
by delusional on Apr 25, 2011 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Good post. I rec'd it like it was my liver
Cliff notes version- the Lions need LBers and CBs.
Draft history has shown a top-flight CB talent doesn’t make it past the 1st rd while teams can get really fucking good LBers after the 1st.
"The right (draft) move sometimes might be to strengthen a strength. Filling holes in the 1st round leads to grabs and busts." - Steve_Chiefs.
by JazzyBBP on Apr 25, 2011 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Always count on Jazzy to get straight to the heart of the matter
You gonna go to the PoD game?
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Gonna try to make it like I'm gonna try to sneak back to work now...lol
"The right (draft) move sometimes might be to strengthen a strength. Filling holes in the 1st round leads to grabs and busts." - Steve_Chiefs.
Wonderfully summarized my friend...:o)
Glad you get the point.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
That's generally how I feel.
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 25, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't read the whole post
But got the point you were trying to prove. I have to say I don’t pay too much attention to the advanced statistics of any sport and definitely don’t take them to be truth of what is happening on the field. I would much rather watch the film and judge for myself.
What I think the Lions need is simple: better job sealing up running lanes by the D-line, faster and stronger backers that get off blocks and make tackles and a safety (whether its Coleman or Spievey) that doesn’t whiff on a tackle when he has the oppertunity to make one.
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
trust your eyes!
without the stats, if you watched the games you saw the Lions give up some big runs, take some big sacks or have pressure ruin the play, saw running lanes get filled, saw big penalties on Third down, get beat by the WR, a bad call…
From my watching I see how the Lions need a LB, OL help , power RB, 2nd-3rd WR.
There are a lot of young CBs on the roster as opposed to LBs on the roster
but anyway you slice it , they can improve across the board.
The FO just has to draft right and not miss on the players.
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Apr 25, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW
If you watched film on Ayers then you should not be very impressed in his ability to play the run.
the only LBs I have watched is
Mason Foster and Bruce Carter…
I was too caught up trying to find a player for round one..
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
I enjoyed the nice little season review...brought back some happy memories..
helps ward off the fug that has descended upon us
I wanted to cry
at all the times we barely missed the W
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
ahh, water under the bridge bro...
we’ll tear ’em a new one this year ;)
by YpsilantiJeff on Apr 25, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
We are a few small pieces from contention...
That is the beauty of it…
I just hope that our FO doesn’t blow the opportunity to return us to relevance. I trust them as of right now…
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
We'll see a telling tale of where they're going with this team on Thursday and Friday
This is the first chance the FO has had to direct it’s own fate, with a prime mid round pick and expectations to finally meet.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Agreed
I think round 1 is going to tell the whole story as to where the FO actually sees this team.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Where they see our level of progress and where they see us going.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Yup
I think people forget how far in advance these guys look. At least 2-3 years, I’d wager…
There are too many pieces on the board for any of our arguments to really make sense. It’s nowhere near LB vs. CB in this draft or anything that simplistic, of that I’m sure.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Again I agree
And on that aspect I am injecting my opinion, clearly.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
It
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
is sad to see a day when you have to state that you're saying something based on opinion.
det32 is now my Khan.
DETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Well...you know what I meant
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
I look for this year to be the year the put the hammer to finally producing a Tennessee style...
Psycho type, wild eyed style of playing defense…The line is there, the back 7 need some work.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
by delusional on Apr 25, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now we just need our Cortland Finnegan
7th round pro bowl cb, GO!
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
I truly believe and I may not be able to put it into proper wording on how it's going to be done.....
We are about to see unleashed on the NFL a defensive scheme that Schwartz and Gun have been cooking up for the last 7 or 8 years, with the help of those young assistants that the league has never witnessed before. Now that Schwartz has free reign, Gunther is just crazy enough and willing to try anything those assistants come up with. Their a tad short on psycho types in that back 7.
The 3-1-3 shit was just the tip of the iceberg.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
And slow Ayers style plodder types are not in the recipe for this D.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
I'd be so thrilled if Mayhew gave Gun some toys
like we gave Linney last year. Would be fantastic to see the tricks they pull!
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
Who needs a Finnegan?
You can get a Tramon WIlliams or Sam Shields without even spending a pick on them.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
anyway i am done in this thread tell your self w/e you want.. but our LB way underpreformend last year
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Loser
Take your ball and go home.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
and this red jacket, and this bowling ball, and this lamp....
ever seen The Jerk?
that scene is classic
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Apr 25, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
not nearly
as much as you have underperformed in this thread :)
If football players were armed with guns, there wouldn't be stadiums large enough to hold the crowds.
Irwin Shaw
by yooperlionfan on Apr 25, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn't call it underperforming.
That indicates that he’s capable of doing more.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
lol
well ya got me there
If football players were armed with guns, there wouldn't be stadiums large enough to hold the crowds.
Irwin Shaw
by yooperlionfan on Apr 25, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
This makes me want the draft more than ever
I'm glad they made Flintstone's vitamins because I used to watch The Flintstones and go, "Man I bet you if I ate that dude, I would be healthy."
Before I state any opinions first let me say, awesome job KDawg
This is a very thorough and large undertaking, and as such there are bound to be improvements or insights that can be added. So below I am going to show how our run defense can be upgraded in the secondary and on the defensive line more than in the line backers.
Game 2 vs Eagles: I distinctly remember a long TD run for an explosion play against being the fault of Randy Phillips. He came up and dove at Shady McCoy’s feet and Shady just jumped right past him on his way to the end zone. Had that tackle been made by the safety the run would have been stopped much shorter.
In this youtube highlight clip you will see some of the plays.
0:27 Mark: MLB Landon Johnson gets washed out by the center and cant get off the block in time. While this play may be in the LB cores responsibility I hardly think upgrading the OLB position makes any difference here. You will also notice that it is 2nd and 10 on the down and distance marker here. Delmas shoots the gap, but he shoots the wrong gap and goes outside instead of inside where the run was designed. Had Delmas made the right read he could have stopped the play and forced a 3rd and 5 or better.
0:37 Mark: Turk Mcbride does a good job here forcing the play inside but Alphonso Smith fails to fill and make the tackle. Looking back at the play, #55 (Landen Johnson I believe) is lined up as the OLB on that play and gets sucked inside and then blown up by the guard. While the OLB play factors in here, finding a nickel that can make a one on one tackle against a running back is just as big of a help.
0:44 Mark: Again I don’t know who the LOLB is here, but he has to take a guard on one on one and does miss the tackle. This is the play where you see Randy Phillips flash in and dive for his ankles. A quick side step and little jump over Phillips and he is gone. Seeing this makes me wonder exactly what is going on with our defensive line that they continually leave our line backers out to dry against lineman one on one. While our defensive line is amazing against the pass, I have to admit that a lot of the blame the line backers take is because they often suck against the run. Sure having a stud OLB might help here, it might not. I am not sure if any LB that is fast enough to cover can also take on an offensive lineman play in and play out and win. Honestly the thing that needs fixed here is the defensive line and safety play, not the line backer.
Game 3 at Vikings: Since the A. P. 80 yard run is the focus of the run game critique lets take a look at that. Watching this highlight reveals that while our entire line and line backers got washed out on the left right side of our defense, the real explosion in the play came when C. C. Brown missed the tackle on the cut back to the left side of our defense. Not to mention that just about our entire defense let him get by before that happened. I am not sure how the entire defense cannot be to blame here. But if I am upgrading one position based on this clip, it is the right safety, strong safety, or however you want to look at it, C. C. Brown.
Week 6 at Giants: I will be referencing this clip first.
2:54 Mark: Front 7 all the way here, thankfully C. C. Brown made the tackle here to keep if from being worse. You will notice that we ate Bradshaw up in the next two plays and forced a 3rd and long which was batted down.
8:26 Mark: Most of the Giants success at this point has been through the air. There has been some short runs, including a TD by Jacobs that the front 7 could have done better on, but even that was set up by long passes. At this point we once again see a missed tackle by Alphonso Smith turn into a big gain. Once again I am left wanting a nickel that is big enough to tackle a running back without fear of injury.
Using this clip now.
0:06 Mark: Once again we see Alphonso Smith miss a tackle, for a loss this time.
6:28 Mark: Again not great play by the front 7, but also even worse play by C. C. Brown who leaves his jock on the field. It should be noted that Bradshaw was shut down by the front 7 the next two plays and on third down coverage held to allow pressure to force an incomplete.
8:36 Mark: This is the one that really hurt, just after the refs decided to forget that a guy can be down by contact and thought it would be cool to randomly give the Giants the ball back. Delmas gets sucked in on a misread again, biting up on the right side, the entire left side of our defense gets blocked, small hole for Bradshaw but a clear lane, C. C. Brown comes up and takes a horrible angle, deciding its best practice some ballet, helicopter moves as he looks like an idiot. While the entire defense was a fail on this play, the biggest flaw in fundamentals was once again C. C. Brown missing a tackle.
The following two runs were pretty pathetic by the front seven, I can’t lie, J. P. had a horrible play on the very next run and pretty much decided that he was unwilling to tackle Brandon Jacobs. C. C. Brown tried on the next play but still got ran over. Nothing wrong with his effort or fundamentals there, he just lost the battle after the front seven failed.
Are we seeing a pattern here? I keep mentioning a couple of secondary guys in all of this. Phonz and C. C., well Spievey came in later in the year and took care of one spot, and Phonz was injured as well. Couple that with Carpenter and Palmer stepping up and you guys saw the 4 game win streak happen. So going into this draft I am not so sold that getting a LB really upgrades us as much as some claim. The safety position has already been addressed by Spievey’s continued progression along with Eric Coleman as a stopgap and insurance in case that does not happen.
While I was going through these clips I could not help but notice how much another outside cover corner would have helped, IMO far more than a run stopping LB. Which BTW if we want to get a run stopping LB why don’t we just draft Nick Bellore in the 5th round? Seems like a better use of resources to me. Anyways I am going to jsut cut this off here, because there should be no need to go further to prove my point. Though if I keep hearing a bunch of BS about how we need to upgrade our LB corps I will in fact continue to pull up actual game clips and make the point. I can pull up all of the long passes that were game breakers and really drive home the point if people want to keep carrying this crap on.
Awesome post Kdawg, I just wanted to be clear that I am not refuting you one bit, I just wanted to point out a nuance you missed, in that a lot of the big runs against were not only because of breakdowns on the LB corps, but that the front four and secondary are just as guilty as well. I think it would be fair to say that we need to upgrade our run defense as a team, not just in the LB corps. So really, when you look at the overall benifit, what is more important in terms of wins? Taking away the middle plays that go for first downs or taking away the huge explosion plays that go for bigger first downs, touchdowns, and also swing momentum? I think it is pretty clear where I fall in this debate, give me a solid tackling, outside cover capable corner all day over any line backer not named Von Miller.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Agreed
I did allude to the idea that it was not all the linebacker’s fault, and you just expanded for me. Thank you…:o)
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
like i have said.. it is mostly the LBs fault.. why should the CB or S have to do the LBs job as well as there own?
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Because that is THEIR job!
The CB is supposed to be there in the event that the linebacker can not make the play! It is a TEAM effort! The cornerback is NOT doing their job AND the job of the linebacker, but rather in supporting the linebacker they ARE doing their job!
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
but the LB isnt doing his job either..
look at it this way..
i know you fill out taxes for HR block or someone like that… lets say you are the manager and one of you guys is filling out a forum he finished it and brings it to you for a once quick over.. you look at it and see that he severely screed up somewhere.. so then you have to fix his mistake… now if that happened just once not that big of a deal.. but if he was doing it 5-10 times a day he would be fired…
that my point if we had LB that could do there job our CBs could do there job better b/c they wouldnt need to babbysit the LBs
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
and...
you think ayers is going to step in day one and do that job huh? not likely. he probably wouldn’t beat out anybody we have in the first year. deal with it, you’re wrong, everybody here has proven it to you several different ways. suck it up, admit when you’re wrong. and move on.
If football players were armed with guns, there wouldn't be stadiums large enough to hold the crowds.
Irwin Shaw
by yooperlionfan on Apr 25, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
And my point is that the linebackers weren't failing as badly as you want to say they were...
And when they did, our cornerbacks failed even worse, as they allowed explosion plays beyond the original mistakes instead of making the play and stopping running backs from scoring on long runs.
Most of the time, there was one explosion play by a running back in any given game against the Lions in 2010 (when there was one at all). Everybody makes mistakes, and that is why there is someone to back them up. The game would be 7 on 7 if nobody ever got past the linebackers. A vast majority of the time our linebackers did a very good job in stopping the run and covering the TEs. In fact there were only 5 games out of 16 where the Lions allowed the RBs to get out of control (Philly, Minnesota, NYG, Bills, and Bucs), and not all of them were as bad as they could have been (IE Bradshaw did not have any huge gainers or TDs). Also, there was only 1 game where the opposing RB went off on us in the passing game (Forte in the 1st Bears game).
Yes, if the LBs were doing a better job maybe these RBs would have been held better in check, but if the CBs had been doing their jobs, the same effect could have been produced. If we can get a top flight CB in round 1, and one of the top 3, 4-3, OLBs in the 2nd round or later, then it makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever to reach for an OLB at pick 13…period.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Also, if the DL was not leaving the LB's out to dry on the run, to take on guards (typically the best run blockers in the NFL) then they would not look so bad either
Under your logic Det32, we actually need to develop better tackles. because our DE’s usually are doing fine on contain. This is the problem with the Schwartz 3-4, because the DL is all about pressure, and penetration, you cannot count on them to do their job on the run. Conversely you cannot have it all with your LB’s too. You cannot have 3 LB’s that can play and cover any TE or RB, and also take on guards 1 on 1. This is why it is ESSENTIAL in the Schwartz scheme to have physical corners that can tackle along with safeties that can too. Why do you think they drafted Spievey as a corner? Do you think it was for his cover skills? Because they let Buchanon go and drafted him. I think it is abundantly clear that it is DEMANDED of our secondary players to provide strong run support to the line backers to help cover the deficiencies of our line who is focusing on pass rush.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
EXACTLY
I’d even go so far as to say that what you said might actually go as far as corners that have average cover skills, as long as they are above average in run support.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
well, it depends on how you look at it
Obviously the staff likes run support from CBs more than most. But a very solid cover corners can also free up the safeties to play in the box or intermediate zones so that they’re in better position to stop the run…whereas, if there isn’t the confidence with the CBs to be on an island, than the safeties have to play deep coverage and be more worried about that, causing delays on getting up to stop the RB before picking up decent yardage…
Delmas and Spievey are at their best when they can play in the box or at least be looking to sniff out the run…making it all the more important to me to have CBs on an island more often…
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
For sure
Many miss this aspect of our defense. You can’t look at it like a typical 4-3, because that’s not the assignments. Don’t folks remember all the talk about if Suh could transition into a pass rusher ALL the TIME. Suh did look to struggle in run support at times last year, but that had a lot to do with the fact that the DTs job is to penetrate the assigned gap, not wait and see what gap the RB is going to hit before making the move…Therefore, you need folks on the back end to make up for it. I mean, our opposing offenses sure knew what to run to take advantage (que all of the delays and pulls to the gap between the G and T).
Likewise, the main assignment of the DEs is to rush the edge while not losing OUSTIDE containment. There is no “stuffing the run” assignment in our normal D (of course there are certain situations where we play the run as the #1 priority, but it’s not that often).
That’s why our safety play is really a huge deal and our nickel CB needs to be able to pick up that delay on 3rd down (that gashed us so often last year). That’s my only worry with Phonze as nickel…Prince would be perfect as a nickel, but we’d have to have him outside as well unless Phonze gets better on the outside.
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
LMAO Rames. . .
Not at your post cause i like what you just said in both of them. But 1 line in general struck me funny. Suh did look to struggle “At TIMES” in run support. . .Not bad for a rookie huh. now wait till next year when most rookies explode out of their collage(baby fat). Refering to year 3 when most players have their breakout years. And Suh was a PB his rookie year. . . .SCARY!
How many lumps you want Doc?
indeed
It’s mainly because of Suh that I feel our run defense will imrpove upfront. He’s just THAT good. His main job won’t be to stuff the run, but I’ll bet you anything he’ll do it anyway more often than not!
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
Awesome!
This is the point that I keep saying and det32 keeps ignoring. If a linebacker misses a play, the CB or safety, or both, will still get a chance to make the tackle and end the play. But if a CB screws up they don’t have much behind them to help. It is clearly easier to compensate for problems at linebacker than ti is to compensate for problems in the secondary. Our biggest problem is that we need guys in the secondary that can help in run defense and make sure tackles.
the problem is our LB miss to many of those plays..
the CBs shouldn’t have to fix every thing the LBs do
it like if your fixing some guy paperwork every day at work… and you screw up his job…why is it your fault that that guy cant do his own job?? why do you have to do 2 x the work?
point is they LBs screed up there job.. the CB shouldn’t have to do both his job and the LBs job..
so why you can argue it isnt sole the LBs it is about 95% there fault b/c if they could do there job we wouldn’t be having this conversation
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
and dont give me "it a team" thing.. yes it is a team and we have a weak team member..
in any other job if you cant get it done the will find some one to get it done…
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Dude
You are the one that keeps saying that it is easier to cover for mistakes by a LB than it is for a CB. So you were the one that brought up the topic about covering for the mistakes of others. So now that the argument is going your way you want to spin it all back around again?
Bullshit.
Oops
I meant to say that you claim it is easier to cover for problems at CB than at LB. I said that backwards.
it is easier to cover for avg CB than it is to cover for poor LBs.. specley with the pass rush we have..
QBs dont have time to throw the long ball..
so instead the need to dump it off to the RB or TE..
my point is we need some LB that can bat down that yard pass.. some LB to tackle that RB where he caught it if they where unable to bat it down..
not some LB going “o i missed but its ok prince will get him b/c it is his job to fix my fuck ups”
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
it is easier to cover for avg CB than it is to cover for poor LBs.. specley with the pass rush we have..
QBs dont have time to throw the long ball..
so instead the QB needs to dump it off to the RB or TE..
my point is we need some LB that can bat down that 6 yard pass.. some LB to tackle that RB where he caught it if they where unable to bat it down..
not some LB going "o i missed him but its ok prince will get him b/c it is his job to fix my fuck ups"
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
All your doing here is agreeing that JP was a wasted of roster spot.
He blew play after play early.
And my point is that the linebackers weren’t failing as badly as you want to say they were…
Dawg, they were…..I really think your numbers are showing that. We were pure weak at LB until Levy come back then they worked Carpenter into the lineup.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
So uhhh
Your statement underscores what KDawg was saying:
I really think your numbers are showing that. We were pure weak at LB until Levy come back then they worked Carpenter into the lineup.
So, we have our MLB set, an two potential starters in Carpenter and Palmer… So we really don’t need an LB that bad. We need a starter and a depth guy, maybe, but certainly not 3 in one draft.
To reiterate what Dawg said about 30 times in this thread – LB is a NEED. It is not AS BIG of a need as CB, which is where our top pick should probably be used.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Maybe I am...
I completely agree that our needs are LB and CB, It just depends on what is there and what’s available….But once again…..We need LB speed, or a cover corner….NO ONE will hear one grip out of me if we get either in the 1st or 2nd, or both.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
well kdawg
thank you, i appreciate the effort, had a feeling it would go this way. but i’m still gonna hold out hope that some of this sinks in. either way, it’s only a few more days of this crap. again, thanks for the effort. and very well composed post, very imformative. well done.
If football players were armed with guns, there wouldn't be stadiums large enough to hold the crowds.
Irwin Shaw
Hey Marshall
once again you know who makes new friends. I sat back and watched,it was like a train wreck.
okay..I give up...be your self!
by randalljwhite on Apr 25, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
yea
i was at work all day, this is my first chance to read it all. pretty much how i expected it to go. but fun to follow along either way.
If football players were armed with guns, there wouldn't be stadiums large enough to hold the crowds.
Irwin Shaw
by yooperlionfan on Apr 25, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it should be noted that
Levy, our starting MLB, missed games 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6.
NO HOMO!!!!!!!
That is part of the reason that I can't agree about the LBs.
I think it is pretty telling that when a few things happened late in the season, the Lions started to win.
Levy was playing at MLB
Peterson got benched in favor of Palmer/Carpenter
Peterman’s leg injuries got better and he started to get some drive on run blocking
Jahvid Best’s turf toes got a bit better
C.C. Brown got less playing time and Spievey\Wendling got more.
One of the points of all that is that the Lions eventually got sick of the guys that made mistakes to allow big plays. Peterson and CC Brown were absolutely the worst on the team at costing the Lions big plays. Sometimes it was even on the same play.
+1
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 25, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops...
The Lions allowed 3 TD passes to TEs in 2010…just thought I should recant my earlier statement of 2 (Jermichael Finley, Travis Beckham, and Brandon Manumaleuna).
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Solid
Lets just hope Prince falls to us and I would be happy with say Bruce Carter in round 2… if he makes it.
Bruce Carter or Mason Foster
Either one would suit us just fine, and it is possible that one of them could be had as late as round 3. That said, I think it may be difficult for us to pass on one of them at 44, just to be sure we get our guy.
I want to see this:
Round 1 – CB (Peterson, Amukamara, Harris, or Smith)
Round 2 – OLB or RB (Carter or Foster…or LeShoure)
Round 3 – Guard or OLB (Moffitt or Carter/Foster)
Round 4 – S or RB (Ahmad Black or Duenta Williams…or DeMarco Murray/Delone Carter)
Round 5 – WR (someone like Austin Pettis maybe)
Round 7 – One of the positions we didn’t draft above
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Man, get out of Ayers jock......In this D, it's going to be nothing but speed, and hammer.
Det32, I respect you for the abuse your taking and standing up for what you believe, but your full of shit with Ayers. I’ll buy you some Jackson Coney Island’s if it’s Ayers……Seriously dude.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Not sure how you can say that.
Part of your arguement is we need a LB that can cover the TE and RB out of the backfield….that means speed.
When you have a lunatic D-line, you need speed in the flats.....That's not Ayers.
I’d rather have Carpenter,Dizon, and a 3rd rounder then Ayers. As long long as we get a Smith or Prince..
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
bullshit. JS wants big, fast and LBs that can tackle. He said that himself
COP:"Do you know why I pulled you over Mr. Dunn ?" ME:" Was I speeding officer?" COP:"A lil bit, but I really wanted to see a SORRY ASS DETROIT LIONS FAN UP CLOSE!" He gave me a ticket for 50 in a 45 zone. So I ask him his team. COP: DA BEARS HAHAAHAHAA
by M10 LIONS FAN on Apr 26, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
you do know the levy is slower then ayers right?
levy ran a 4.69 i belive.. ayers ran a 4.67 at his pro day
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
What did Ayers run at the combine????
4.86? 4.89?? He runs only when he wants to. . .Takes plays off, Can’t fight threw blockers. . . .And you are talking about an OLB that has to cover speedy TE’s and RB’s out of the backfield not a guy who is playing the run and middle of the field.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Why do you make shit up?
Ayers improved his 40-yard dash significantly today at his Pro Day workout from the NFL scouting combine with clockings in the 4.69 to low 4.7 range, according to a league source with knowledge of the situation.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/4404/a-look-at-akeem-ayers-pro-day
DeAndre Levy 4.50 (NFL Combine)
Julian Peterson 4.57
Jordon Dizon 4.58
Landon Johnson 4.6
http://40-yard-dash-times.com/detroit-lions-lb.html
Look I like Ayers, as a third round value pick, but make no mistake he is a project. He is NOT a plug and play starter day one. He will be MORE of a liability in coverage than Julian Peterson was. Considering that Ayers is only going to get bigger I have serious concerns about if he can get faster, which he needs to do.
I would accept Ayers as a second round pick, maybe late first, but do you know where I like him? As a MIDDLE line backer. Sorry man he is too slow to play outside for us. Develop him for a year behind Levy and move Levy back to WSLB and we have something.
Now that I said that, I think it would be a better option to take Bruce Carter late in the first or in the second round. We can just leave Levy in the middle and plug Bruce in to play WSLB day one this year, and guess what, he can play middle too! With no learning curve or transition.
The upside of Ayers is a bit higher, so I can accept him as the pick. But the risks with him are higher too, lets be honest and clear about that.
Now that I said that, I would take any other actual first round talent over either of them, including Tyron Smith, Mike Pouncy, Prince, Jimmy Smith (if the Lions buy off on character), Brandon Harris hell even Ryan Kerrigan or Cameron Jordan, even Julio Jones. Because they are just a lot more likely to be stars, have just as much if not more upside, and have a lot less risk (except in the case of Jimmy Smith).
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
I've been thinking hard about this...An injured Bruce Carter or Mason Foster, who's a tackling machine in the 2nd?
Now that I said that, I think it would be a better option to take Bruce Carter late in the first or in the second round.
I do believe I am leaning towards Foster. Their pretty damn equal physically and 40 times. I concede that Carter looks like the better player, but is that knee always going to be the overriding concern? Wouldn’t be wiser to go for a little less talent, but a potentially longer career?
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
I like taking Ryan Williams in the 2nd :) LoL Probably not the answer you were looking for
I just think there will be lots of perfect fit LB’s out there for us in free agency, and even not so perfect fits that will get us through until next draft, or even two drafts, where we will have other chances to get a LB that is a better fit.
I am also all right with the line backers we have playing this year out. But one thing that I think would help protect Stafford more than any lineman we could draft is a running game, well all right my bad, we do need to draft a center for that too :P
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
I like Foster, but I have never heard anyone call him an "athletic feak".
I have heard people say this about Carter. While I agree that the knee issue makes Carter a riskier prospect I do believe he has a much bigger upside than Foster (and therefore the possibility of adding more dynamic plays to the D). Because of that I personally would go for Carter if he is there in the 2nd round over Foster, but if Mayhew has real concerns over the knee issue I’m fine with Foster. Foster could easily suffer an injury and end up having a shorter career then Carter (although I agree he seems like the less risky pick).
Levy was in the 4.5s
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
oh, should have waited
got excited to rebuke…
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
Nice thread
And good post KD. Personally, I think both needs are in a 1a-1b situation. We need help in both positions pretty damn badly which is why I’d like to see us pick those 2 positions in the 1st 2 rounds. Preferably, Amukamara and Carter.
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
I also agree that they are a 1a and 1b, but...
There is only one linebacker in this draft worthy of a #13 pick and that is Von Miller. After he is taken there is not another linebacker that offers value until you get into the mid 20’s. When det32 is saying to draft Ayers at #13 he is saying we should draft a guy that is now ranked between 35 and 50 on most draft boards. He wants us to reach like 30 picks for the guy.
The real truth is that if the Lions want Ayers he will almost certainly be there at #44 and could possibly even be there at #75. Taking him at the #13 pick is the biggest brain-dead piece of bullshit that anybody on this site fights for. It is a HUGE reach. There are at least four CB s (Peterson, Amukamara, Harris, and J. Smith) that are better value at #13 than Ayers. On some draft boards I have seen as many as six CB above Ayers on the draft board. In fact, I have seen at least three LBs rated above Ayers on most draft boards.
I am not saying I am against Ayers. I am saying he is a round 2-3 player, not the God that det32 has predicted.
Yep
You pretty much nailed it there Tuff. That is how I have felt all along.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Is it just me?
Looking at last years stats on avg. to determine what personnel changes to make doesn’t really do justice to the future. Based on what I’m reading some feel we have a greater need at LB based on the fact that yardage rankings were poorer against the run and passing to the TE and RB. However, in my opinion the yardage stats are skewed because in most games we trailed or were close late. In those cases most teams are going to run the ball and control the clock and on 3rd down pass to the RB and TE. If we want to do the whole stat thing, we were 13th in run attempts per game (27.7) but only 23rd in passing attempts per game (32.4), people ran against us to keep the clock running, no need for a risky deep pass to a WR.
If we expect the same outcome next year, something I don’t subscribe to with a healthy Stafford and Best, then LB might be the pick, just not at 13. If we expect, and most analyst do, we will be much improved and will actually be looking to hold onto a lead in most games, then by far getting a shutdown corner is the pick. Looking to the future I hope Mayhew trades down to get Jimmy Smith and then takes Ayers in the second round….he will be there.
believe me
no one makes personnel decisions based on stats. its just the easiest way to argue points since we can’t provide loads of clips of where the LBs or CBs failed
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
by Latif Masud on Apr 25, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Great point
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
Good post K-dawg. **Applause and whistles heard***
Det32 c’mon man…Take a deep breath……Pause for 5 minutes…..Think of your arguement and THEN respond. ( oh yeah, don’t hold your breath during the pause…you’ll never do it)
I am starting to think you want to tongue kiss Rob!
I would take Jimmy or A Williams over Harris though K-dawg.
Aaron Williams will be a safety in the NFL
And I am leary of Smith’s character, even though I generally snub the whole “character issues” argument. I think Brandon Harris is just as good as Jimmy Smith, better in drills, and he is a high character/good work ethic kind of guy. I think Harris is a more reliable pick, but i would not be upset if we ended up with Jimmy Smith…I know he is good.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Aaron is raw, but his body control and skills are sick.
I believe worst case scenario he turns into another Cromartie that relies to much on his speed and length. He gets away with it in college and won’t in the NFL but coaches can and will get him back to basics. Jimmy “TALENT WISE” is better than Prince IMO. Look at Princes surrounding talent and Jimmy’s… 3potential first round talent coming out of Nebraska next year…one being a CB. Not to mention Suh and such prior.
Jimmy wasavoided because he was the best in the backend.
Character flaws….No comparison! I just hope FO clears him. God knows we don’t need a Pac-Man. I would love to see Jimmy in D!
Dennard actually doesn’t support the “more help” argument. Prince had another NFL corner playing on the other side of the field from him, yet teams still decided to take their chances with Dennard instead of Prince. That shows how much they respected him. IIRC Smith had another good corner playing with him as well (although not as good as Fonzo). The secondary actually created sacks for the DL this year, rather than the the DL making it easy on the secondary like with Suh.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
Green Bay Packers: Super Bowl XLV Champions!!!!
Aaron Williams (read the comments from the bottom up in the quote)
3/30/11: The Steelers and Lions sent all their coaches to watch Aaron Williams as Texas’ Pro Day. Williams, a great fit for Mike Tomlin’s coverage scheme, did not disappoint.
3/2/11: Aaron Williams ran a decent 4.52 40 at 6-0, 204. During the drills, however, Mike Mayock and Deion Sanders remarked that Williams was “all over the place.” Mayock said he believes that Williams may have to move to free safety in the NFL.
10/9/10: I have yet to see some tape on Williams, but I’ve heard from a couple sources he hasn’t played up to his potential this season. Some scouts love Williams, but some think he’s overrated.
5/13/10: Another superstar rising junior cornerback, Aaron Williams likely won’t make it into the second half of Round 1
Notice how it starts off with Williams being a sure fire mid 1st round pick, and then quickly degenerates into “overrated” or “not playing up to potential”, then he runs a linebacker’s 40 at the combine, sucks in drills, and gets called a safety by Mike Mayock?? That’s pretty much what I see…he improved his 40 at the pro day, in front of the Lions and Steelers, but overall he is too slow and stiff to be a good corner in the NFL (and I hope our scouts noticed it too). I said the same thing long before any “expert” rankings etc came out on Aaron Williams as a 2011 draft prospect…Curtis Brown was the best CB at the University of Texas, and Aaron Williams clearly got exposed in 2010. He is a 2nd round pick at best, and i rank him below Curtis Brown.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Very nice post KD
I think we can all agree we have several holes to fill with cb and lb near the top. I always never cared about that ridiculous stat anyways. My eyes and statistical interpretation could tell me why we won or lost the games.
"We're looking to improve this team every day, every week, every month until we get to our ultimate goal which is to win a championship."
-Martin Mayhew Detroit Lions GM, Master of the Universe
by Home in Cleveland, Heart in Detroit on Apr 25, 2011 10:17 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
it's like flies getting caught on those sticky fly traps.
guys arguing with det 32 knowing there’s no end in sight and little logic. I wish i could have the last 10 minutes of my life back. I feel dumber.
Feel whoever you want man...just don't so it in public.
The point here wasn’t just to argue with det32…it was to also be informative. I’d bet dollars to dimes that you can’t make a better post. If you can, then put up or shut up.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
And if you meant you feel dumber for reading det32's comments, or something other than my post or my intention with the post...
Then disregard what I said, with my apologies.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
OK, I just got down reading that whole debacle.
One question for you det32, follow me here, when you say the Lions only have two LBs under contract that is a huge problem, right? So by your own logic it is a big deal Houston is not signed. Correct?
If not, do you understand you are being contradictory?
by LeyandsMarlboros on Apr 26, 2011 12:57 AM EDT reply actions
no its not a big deal that houston isnt signed.. we have better depth at CB..
there is also very good CB depth in this draft
there is very poor depth for LBs in this draft though
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
We don't have CB depth to step up are replace our main CB(1)
I think crappy LBs are easier to hide than having horrible CBs. Whats going to stop teams from bombing the ball down the field? and which point we will not even need LBs.
by LeyandsMarlboros on Apr 26, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
with the pass rush we have
it is much easier to cover up for avg CB(that what we have avg CBs not horrible)
then it to cover for the worst LB core in the nfl.. as you can tell from our record last year
teams never bombed the bail down files last year b/c they didn’t have the time to.. it was always a 6 yard pass that turned into a 80 yard gain
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
I remember some bombs in the Eagles and Patriot games.
I still think our back up CBs are no where close to average. They’re all young and inexperienced.
by LeyandsMarlboros on Apr 26, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget that guy the Browns drafted also
Hayden and McCourtney or how ever you spell there names.
How many lumps you want Doc?
2 CBs out of the 100s...
the pats where 30th(258 a game) in 2010 – 12th(209 a game) in 2009
the browns where 18th(220 a game) in 2010 29th(244 a game) in 2009
so the pats didnt inprove nice try though
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
You can guarantee Ayers is a can't miss prospect and the Lions will resign Houston.
Why can’t I say Prince is the next McCourty/Hadden?
by LeyandsMarlboros on Apr 26, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
mccounty didnt seem to help his D that much…
i dont think i ever said ayers is a cant miss.. i said LB is a cant miss postion b/c of how big of a need it is…
i just donr see a rookie CB inproving our pass D year one… McCourty didnt do it for the pats..
hadden do do it from the browns.. buth the 2009 browns pass D was much worse then the 2010 lions pass D..
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
If you want a CB like McCourty this year you should watch the Sport Science on Prince Amukamara
He has an even bigger defense radius than McCourty did
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yPxwUvc2dc
I dunno how anyone can say this guy don’t have ball skills, I think he has amazing ball skills, he just don’t necessarily catch ever ball he gets his hands on, but he is amazing at locating the ball in the air and getting a hand on it.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Yeah that is right, Go Go Gadget Arm Bitches!
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
If your saying it Smurfer, I'm going to settle in and lose any doubts regarding Prince.
The negativity in the last week or two regarding Prince got me leaning in Smith’s direction. I’ll be happy with either.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
I saw that Sports Science also
And I almost popped a woody hoping that we get him. . .He will help our back 4 greatly. It may take a year or 2 to reach his maximum potential but this guy has got to be our first round pick if he is available.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I linked in another thread an interview from Mlive where a proscout just rips Jimmy Smith a new one
I just cannot get over the Charles Rogers feel that Jimmy Smith gives me.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
I read that Smurf
And there are a lot of mixed reviews out there on Smith.All the knocks on him seem to be about crap that happened while he was still a kid, fresh/Soph years. He has seemed to grow up once the thought of “hey I can play in the NFL 1 day” set in. It’s funny that we are talking about him again because I was just watching Mike and Mike in the morning and Kipers little flunky was just talking about he feels that Smith is the most Pro-Ready CB in this draft, Prince is behind Peterson. I mean it’s all about the money who did Smiths Agent pay off the most, to say what ever that guru is saying. And for all of you that don’t think all these “Know it all’s” do not receive money you are very blind!
How many lumps you want Doc?
Yeppers
Jimmy Smith scares me, I admit it.
One more point about Amukamara that some folks might not know.
Prince was recruited to Nebraska as a running back. He never played CB before college. He played nickel and dime CB positions in his first two seasons. He did not play outside corner until his junior year, when he was dominant. He didn’t get thrown at much his senior season and he did have a bad game against Oklahoma St. But I can attribute a lot of that to him developing some bad habits to try and help his team more when nobody what throwing at him.
What a lot of people don’t realize is that Amukamara has a lot more upside than a lot of people think. There is no way that he developed his skills to anywhere near their potential in only two season at Nebraska. Especially when nobody really challenged him much in his senior year.
Mooch said on NFL Network
That he believes Prince is the most likely to convert into an NFL Shutdown corner. A whole panel of guys were concerned about Peterson’s size, as they say you only get bigger in the NFL and at 222 lbs he is already huge for a corner.
I sure trust Mooch and his endorsement more than some idiot like Kiper.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Peterson may end up as that new era safety
The next Troy if you willl..I mean, I know he’s a freak of an athlete, but if he’s will be playing at 230 lbs, how does that not impact you as a CB??? He has a choice here, he doesn’t have to get bigger, but he might do the most damage as a safety…
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
The Same Mooch
that brought us the Gayest QB to ever play for SF. . . That Mooch!
How many lumps you want Doc?
LOL
So gay that he is married to a super hottie
http://beerandseeds.wordpress.com/2008/11/26/jeff-garcia-nice-job/
All kidding aside
I wanted Mooch to succeed so badly when we had him in here. . .I love when our Lions have instate guys playing/coaching for us, too bad Millen never gave him a chance.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Very true
the kid will be a stud in the NFL by year 2 or 3 at the most. He’s not done growing by any means…meanwhile, his main competitor was a 5th year senior who also played DB in high school and was in the #2 position the whole time…hard to compare, just saying. Jimmy looks like a great athlete and will probably be very good if the money doesn’t get to him, but that doesn’t mean he’ll be a better all-around CB than Prince. Not buying it.
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
They are all young
minus Vasher, but there’s plenty of potential there for them to be at least average. That’s why it’s doesn’t seem like we have a depth issue, we simply have a #1 issue. If that’s resolved, the rest can move one spot down in the depth chart, thus making the depth that much better. i.e. Phonze was GREAT in the nickel. Berry came in as the nickel and looked very good, but would be able to move to dime and still be used in a similar way (short and intermediate zones…he’s real feisty and like to hit…).
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
Rames are you comfortable with one of the current CBs on the roster
stepping in for Houston?
by LeyandsMarlboros on Apr 26, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
No
so if we don’t retain Houston, then we need more than just a #1, we’ll need a #2 as well! eerg, hard to fill in such short time…
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
what about j. jenkins now?
If football players were armed with guns, there wouldn't be stadiums large enough to hold the crowds.
Irwin Shaw
by yooperlionfan on Apr 26, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
???
Enlighten me on this supplemental draft bizness! I don’t support guys with character issues normally, but Jenkins could be a GREAT get if at all possible without breaking the bank…
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
read a little about it
wonder what teams would be willing to take him at seeing he was projected to be the #3 CB and a sure-fire 1st rounder…would he be worth a 2nd or 3rd in the supplemental? Kind of expensive for a guy repeatedly failing drug tests recently…why not take Jimmy if you can move back in the 1st if that was the case…
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
Yeah....right....
The JETS beat us on a 74 yard BOMB to Braylon Edwards…and that is just ONE example.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
What part of this list suggests poor depth 32?
Martez Wilson, Quan Sturdivant, Casey Mathews, Nate Irving, Kelvin Sheppard, Jonas Muton, Doug Hogue, Mason Foster, Chris Carter, Mark Herzlich, Greg Jones, Colin McCarthy, Lawrence Wilson, Dontay Moch, KJ Wright, Aldon Smith, Ross Homan, Nick Bellore, Bruce Carter. And that is just of the top of my head!
Any one of these guys could come in and contribute within the next two years. And according to you, it is easier for a LB to develop because of the supporting cast around him than a CB. Thus, we should grab a top CB within the first 2 rounds because they will need to start right away, and we can add LB depth at any point in the draft.
"We're looking to improve this team every day, every week, every month until we get to our ultimate goal which is to win a championship."
-Martin Mayhew Detroit Lions GM, Master of the Universe
by Home in Cleveland, Heart in Detroit on Apr 26, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Now stop that Home-in-Clev
we are not allowed to make sense when we are talking about LB’s around here. And there you go using logic. . .How dare you! Sir I am repulsed by that kind of thinking!
How many lumps you want Doc?
To change gears for a minute LeyandsMarlboros
What do you think about our Tige’s ???? I was so happy to see us SWEEP them Sux from Chi-town. Now if we can win 2 of these games against the Mariners we will be sitting pretty for early in the season that is. I am pleasantly surprised at how good our starting pitching has been since that opening series against the Yanks. Cabby is still a beast, give that man a shot of Tequila and stand back WAY FAR BACK if he is driving. . . .
How many lumps you want Doc?
Lovin the Tigers right now. Glad to see Verlander get his 1000K against AJ Pierzynski (hate that guy)
Not to mention that Verlanders balk, that was hilarious. As you said the bats are really starting to come alive as well. I think the Tigers are sitting pretty since the Sox and Twins are struggling and there is no way the Royals and Indians stay a top.
PS
Also its nice to see Raburn at 2nd since that what he played in college (below average outfielder).
by LeyandsMarlboros on Apr 26, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell ya.
That Balk was about the funniest thing I have ever seen at the professional level. That was some stuff we use to try on the playground back in the day. I knew Raburn was an infielder just didn’t know it was at second base, he sure does seem more comfortable on the infield than he ever did in the outfield. Now if Mag’s can just get back into the rhythm of swinging the bat we are sitting VERY pretty for the long haul of this season. . .Have you heard anything on Zoom-Zoom???? I have not so I was hoping that another Tige’s fan had some info on Zum.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I have nothing on Zumaya.
Hopefully I don’t get killed for mentioning another site but Bless You Boys has a ton of info and super knowledgeable ppl. If you ask around someone will have a answer. They will probably be able to tell you his diet, rehab progress, favor show and anything else you can think of.
Regardless, the bullpen looks pretty tough. Perry to Benoit and finally Big Potato (Valverde). The also have Al Alburquerque who is nothing special but has a sweet name. Side note, Schlereth is pretty solid too.
by LeyandsMarlboros on Apr 26, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Naw Sean is SUPER COOL about us talking about the other teams in Detroit
And I won’t go over to BYB. I heard the runner of the site is a total ass and warns you if you even think about talking about something not TIGER related. I can’t help myself I am a follower of all Michigan teams(except Spartans of course). . . .And to me this site is home, to many good guys here that are knowledgeable on most of the teams we have. . . . I just would not be able to control myself over there.But maybe just to find out whats going on with Zum Zum I might have to.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I visit there occasionally.
I will visit during games sometimes. I like the Red Wings site and have just started to go there more often. What I love about our site is that we put out more fanposts than most of the other Detroit sports teams and this is only preseason. Not really preseason either if you consider the labor dispute. We have so many diehards here and most of you are pretty cool to chat with.
"We're looking to improve this team every day, every week, every month until we get to our ultimate goal which is to win a championship."
-Martin Mayhew Detroit Lions GM, Master of the Universe
by Home in Cleveland, Heart in Detroit on Apr 26, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
well
with football we need all the extra stuff compared to other sports that play 82 or a 150 games. I can’t say I like DBB or BYB all that much. DBB has good content, but they are pretty biased when it comes to certain ideas and pretty much chase away anyone that says otherwise, including the main writers.
House of Spears | My Lions/NFL Blog | De-facto Editor of Blue & Silver Pride
No problem, I can look into zum zum but I don't comment a lot at BYB. However the site does have some good articles .
Also by no means was I putting down POD or the ppl here. There are ton of knowledgeable, helpful ppl here too. The BYB site has changed slightly since Ian left but Kurt has done a good job. He had big shoes to fill.
Anyways back to football, what’s with det32? (I kid det32)
by LeyandsMarlboros on Apr 26, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Goes right up my line of thinking too KD, where I did not even mention LB as a draft need.
On top of being completely OK with Levy, Carpenter, and Palmer, I am pretty all right with Follett and Campbell too. really we only need one veteran line backer to add to our group. The ONLY way I want a line backer at all is if they are a stud prospect at a value pick.
While I do consider Ayers potential to be capable of being a stud, I also think he will develop slow, similar to how Follett developed for us, just a tad faster. Ayers will be a backup player for most of his first year and I expect him to slowly emerge and be a starter near the end of year one if we draft him. I like his value at around pick 20 or later, definitely not at 13 and in fact I would not consider him an actual value to around pick 28 or later. So sure I could see Ayers as a nice value pick, but he is not a pick I would be game planning my draft around, and I see him going to a 3-4 team long before the value I give him in our 4-3.
So unless the Lions are going to trade up for Von Miller, or get Bruce Carter in the 2nd or 3rd, I don’t really see any need to draft a LB at all.
I do not see guys like Mason Foster, Casey Matthews, nor the oh so great Greg Jones ever being any better than the free agents available. Keep in mind that there are situations out there like the Packers, where a good veteran LB might be cut loose, Nick Barnett. That is even after the usual 3 names we mention with veteran free agents.
Conversely the best we can do at corner is Nnamdi Asomougha, Ike Taylor or…. a guy like Lito Sheppard. If we get Nnamdi and resign Houston ok great, no real huge need at corner. However after looking at some tape of last year, I do not see Phonz as a long term starter even in nickel. His lack of size is a huge liability on the run game and ideally we would love to have a guy like Brandon Harris playing nickel for us.
Best way to fix the Lions defense IMO, trade down, draft Brandon Harris, and sign Nnamdi :P OK well if we cant sign him I still am for drafting Prince Amukamara or Brandon Harris and signing a guy like Ike Taylor over drafting Ayers in the first.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Mason Foster
He’s not going to wow anyone with his speed, but what he has going for him is a nose for the ball, instincts, and physical ability to stop the run. He doesn’t bite on fakes or jukes, instead he breaks down and makes tackles. At 6’1 245, I like him in the 2nd round if Bruce Carter is gone.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
He would be a good fit for us, needs to learn coverage so a bit of a project, his speed might force him into the MLB for us too
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
I just posted something on his up above a tad....I like his game and would take him over Carter. He's not that much slower then Carter.
It’s just the injury thing that’s has me leaning in Foster’s direction. I keep having Boss Bailey flashbacks when I think of Carter and that knee.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Yeah, honestly I am not into drafting a LB at all this year, but I can see it if it happens to be the value on the board at the time
For instance if Ayers is still there at pick 44, I might not pass that up. But really, in the 2nd round I have a favorite that I just cannot get off of, and that is Ryan Williams. I know that I am in a minority here, but I just can not find a 2nd round player I want more than him. I know injuries scare people off him, but that is the beauty of having a stable of running backs. You add one every year or two and just keep on rotating them through. When the tread wears off you let some other team take them in a trade or free agency and generate some more draft value out of them. I think I want Ryan Williams as much as Det32 wants Ayers LoL.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
oh
my
fucking
GOD!
Why did I even bother reading/skimming 1/2 of this threat before re-realizing some things just haven’t changed and wont.
No more Viayergra! He will not give you a Schwartz moment on Youtube!
Horray
2 days until this shit is settled.
And for my next to last final jab at the myth surrounding Akeem Ayers
The National Football Post has spoken with front office sources that question UCLA LB Akeem Ayers’ instincts and ability to learn a complex defense.Ayers has been sliding down draft boards ever since his poor Combine performance, and is looking more like a day-two player than day-one pick at this point. Of course, it could all just be pre-draft nonsense, and it would be far from surprising if Ayers still ultimately gets drafted somewhere in the 20-to-32 range. Apr 17, 12:43 PM
NFL Films guru Greg Cosell believes UCLA LB Akeem Ayers has “competitive red flags.”Cosell believes Ayers is an “athletic stud,” but is worried by the fact that he didn’t always play like one at UCLA. NFL teams must be thinking the same thing, as based on his athletic ability alone, he’s clearly a day-one player, and not the bubble pick he’s turned into. Apr 24, 9:37 AMNFL Films guru Greg Cosell believes UCLA LB Akeem Ayers has “competitive red flags.”Cosell believes Ayers is an “athletic stud,” but is worried by the fact that he didn’t always play like one at UCLA. NFL teams must be thinking the same thing, as based on his athletic ability alone, he’s clearly a day-one player, and not the bubble pick he’s turned into. Apr 24, 9:37 AM
Beat writer D. Orlando Ledbetter thinks the Falcons’ most likely target at No. 27 is UCLA LB Akeem Ayers.He believes Iowa DE Adrian Clayborn, Ohio State DE Cameron Heyward, Pittsburgh DE Jabaal Sheard and Wisconsin DE J.J. Watt will all be considerations, but that Ayers’ versatility could be the deciding factor. Rotoworld’s latest mock draft has Atlanta passing on defensive ends in favor of Baylor G Danny Watkins. Apr 23, 2:39 PMBeat writer D. Orlando Ledbetter thinks the Falcons’ most likely target at No. 27 is UCLA LB Akeem Ayers.He believes Iowa DE Adrian Clayborn, Ohio State DE Cameron Heyward, Pittsburgh DE Jabaal Sheard and Wisconsin DE J.J. Watt will all be considerations, but that Ayers’ versatility could be the deciding factor. Rotoworld’s latest mock draft has Atlanta passing on defensive ends in favor of Baylor G Danny Watkins. Apr 23, 2:39 PM
Everyone in the free world have Ayers going in the 25-30 range. Not in the 15 to 10 range.
My final jab at Ayers is that he wieghted in at 260lbs. Seven pounds heavier than he was at the combine. Seems to me that someone is bulking up to look more attractive to teams using the 3-4 scheme. And this was my major concern 4 months ago.
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
**that should read weight in at his Pro Day earlier this month**
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
By the way great post and research KDawg
I will give you a Fuck Ya for your effort.
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
Thanks JC
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
Reverand and the Bishop
My 2 hero’s!!!!! Going to have to work Evil Smurf in to this somehow…..
How many lumps you want Doc?
me too
I can’t wrap my head around 2nd vs # 2 rec’r? When we had Jonathan Wade start 4 games and play in 8?
Mayhew - " I think there are also a lot of positions where you see what's on the horizon and look down the road and look around the corner, it might not make sense on its face right now to add a player, but if you look down the road, it makes sense to add a player.'' Notice how he said "corner"
by StaffordSuperBowlMVP on Apr 26, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Ay yi yi......
I cannot wait for the draft.
"My perception, sort of going back, looking at the Lions from the outside in, was the Lions would always change courses and overreact. To be at the point now where we were competitive in every game ... We need to stay on that track. We don't need to change course." - Jim Schwartz
Per Tom Kowalski @ Mlive
The only linebacker expected to be drafted in the first 20 picks or so is Von Miller of Texas A&M, who will likely go to Buffalo at No. 3 and he doesn’t fit Detroit’s scheme anyway. The next candidate is UCLA’s Akeem Ayers, but he doesn’t come into play unless the Lions trade back.
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2011/04/north_carolinas_bruce_carter_l.html
I like Ayers but for the Lions to pick him they need to trade back.
by LeyandsMarlboros on Apr 26, 2011 10:13 AM EDT reply actions
I am not saying we don't need some help at the LB position BUT
And this comment really goes to the hole back 7 in general. With all the injuries we had last year from the LB position to the revolving door at the 2nd CB position, do we even know what we have back there???? I thought then and still do that we already have our starting 3 at LB, we are talking about 2 guys who were literally brought in off the street and expected them to play at a high level. And for what it’s worth they played above their heads all things considered. Now you talk about our back 4 we had 2 guys basically play all year in Houston and Predator and it seems that that side of the field was not thrown at all that much. Now on the other side of the field where we had NO constant at OLB NO constant at #2 CB and NO constant at S, they were picked on the hole damn year. While Phonz played good well at least in terms of Int’s he played good, there just was never no continuity on that side of the field. For all we know if these guys would have all been there for the entire Offseason;OTA’s training camp;pre-season and they could trust each other who’s to say that we don’t already have what we all want.Maybe all we really need is just some depth in case these guys get hurt, or to give us more flexibility on 3rd down/ give a guy a breather and not lose that much on the field.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I think it goes like this.
pick 1. Lions select Prince Amukamara.
pick 2. Lions select Akeem Ayers – then immediately trade him for a kicker.
pick 3. Lions select Casey Matthew – then trade him to get Ayers back, just to trade Ayers again for another kicker.
Myabe not the place for it, but about CB play
People say Gun likes press man. I’ve bought into that, but I’d like to be refreshed as to why that’s common knowledge. Looking at some of the games last year, we played a lot of off-man and seemed like they were in a cover 3 zone at times. Is that more reflective of not trusting the CBs to be press and recover if beat initailly or does he just actually like to mix it up quite a bit?
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
Rames
I am not Gunny of course or do I claim to know what that guy is thinking. But I believe he does not think we have the talent to play press-man as of yet at the CB position. Think about it, Wade was our #1 during pre-season, he went down we got lucky and Houston played well enough to be #1, then at the #2 spot we never had a guy who had the skills to be up in the WR’s face. Sorry Profiler I know you love the Phonz but he does not have the body to be a press man coverage guy. Neither does Pratt or any other CB that we had on this roster last year.Vasher has the knowledge but his body has not been the same since his injuries that got him ran out of Chicago.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I'm curious to see how Aaron Berry will perform this year.
I think he looked good early but injuries hurt his play. Could he play press-man?
"We're looking to improve this team every day, every week, every month until we get to our ultimate goal which is to win a championship."
-Martin Mayhew Detroit Lions GM, Master of the Universe
by Home in Cleveland, Heart in Detroit on Apr 26, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya know I am not sure
But I also liked Berry a lot when he had a shot out there. I think he could possibly play the man-press.Of course he was a rookie and needs to grow into his NFL body but hey almost every rook has that issue. Has anyone heard anything on Berry’s rehab????
How many lumps you want Doc?
I haven't heard zip
Killer needs to get on it!
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
So you are telling me that the stats reported on a regular basis are not REAL stats?
GREAT post kdawg. What that tells me we need cb and lb help. CB with the 1st pick at 13. LB at#44 problem solved.
COP:"Do you know why I pulled you over Mr. Dunn ?" ME:" Was I speeding officer?" COP:"A lil bit, but I really wanted to see a SORRY ASS DETROIT LIONS FAN UP CLOSE!" He gave me a ticket for 50 in a 45 zone. So I ask him his team. COP: DA BEARS HAHAAHAHAA
Those are my thoughts
But we’ll see what happens in 2 more days…:o)
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
I agree with CB help, but I actually think our number one need on the team is C
First of all Raiola was our worst performing starter. Thus drafting a first or second round center will improve our starting line up more than any other pick we could make, except maybe corner. I say corner because we don’t have a starting corner :P So I am all right with a corner going first.
The center though also influences team play more than any other position on the team, even the quarterback. A good center will help the entire offense, running and passing game, not to mention that having a power run game, that can run the middle of the field will eat TOP. Eating TOP will help our defense and also help the offense again by wearing out the defensive starters and forcing lesser skilled back ups to rotate into the game.
So my number one needs for the Lions are a tie at the top for CB and C. After that I see a power running back as a bigger need than LB. However the amazing depth of RB in this draft, compared to not much depth at LB may necessitate us taking a LB over a RB, and possibly even a center. But I don’t think I can really buy off on taking a LB in the first round unless the name is Miller or we trade back. And truth is, I still prefer a corner in round one, especially if Prince is there.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Hell I see WR as a bigger need than LB actually
I am far more all right with seeing Carpenter, Palmer, Follett and even Campbell on that field than Bryant Johnson or Derrick Williams. DWheelz I can see progress on at least, but still I would feel a whole lot better if we picked up a solid #3 receiver in this draft.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Actually prefer a #2 receiver, but will accept a #3
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
+1 to that Smurf.
Thats why IF Jones somehow magically falls to us we have to grab him. . . .Over a DE/LB/CB. Jones ran a 4.38 with a BROKE FOOT most guys can’t even get up to that speed with a Corvette.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Well I am OK with trading down to the Rams spot or with the Patriots over taking Julio Jones
One thing that I think will be a problem with Julio is that he is almost too good to be a number two. At some point he will want out to go prove himself as a number one, and we might only get one contract out of him. That is not a horrible thing as he would likely be traded and we would get something back for him, or he might leave as an RFA. But still I would prefer a longer term solution with our first round pick.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
I should add, that trading down to take a guy like Brandon Harris or Mike Pouncy to me is a core building move
While Harris may never be a stud on the outside, as you bring in a replacement he could easily kick inside and be an excellent nickel for a long time in the NFL. Pouncy is the kind of guy that will anchor a top tier NFL line for a decade.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
I think Harris is going to surprise a lot of people...
Much like his predecessor, Vontae Davis.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
agree
he’s got the skills and heart it takes. I see him as being a versatile and feisty corner. He may get beat at times, but he’ll be a heck of an all-around CB for a club come year 2-3
"His lateral agility is unprecedented. Reports claim he has literally been seen in two places at once."- Mav
+1000 on C upgrade. But C unless a top10 player, wont get that call until day 2.
Did any one watch the Parcells draft special on ESPN? it was very good.
COP:"Do you know why I pulled you over Mr. Dunn ?" ME:" Was I speeding officer?" COP:"A lil bit, but I really wanted to see a SORRY ASS DETROIT LIONS FAN UP CLOSE!" He gave me a ticket for 50 in a 45 zone. So I ask him his team. COP: DA BEARS HAHAAHAHAA
by M10 LIONS FAN on Apr 27, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Man i was at the bar watching the Bill Parcells Draft Special on ESPN and I couldnt wait to get back to this thread...
On Parcells draft board Ayers was marked a 2nd round pick and I figured everyone would be in here letting Det32 have but maybe no one saw the special yet. I thought it was really good to get to listen to parcells talk about the process of how he evaluates players and ranks them.
Matthew Stafford, Quarterback: a man barely alive, Gentlemen we can rebuild him, We have the technology, We have the capability to make the worlds first bionic QB, Matthew Stafford will be that man, Better than he was before
Better, Stronger, Faster
FUCK I forgot that was no tonight. . . .
Dammit Dammit Dammit! Stupid game 7 playoffs.
How many lumps you want Doc?
ha ha cant beat playoff hockey though
Matthew Stafford, Quarterback: a man barely alive, Gentlemen we can rebuild him, We have the technology, We have the capability to make the worlds first bionic QB, Matthew Stafford will be that man, Better than he was before
Better, Stronger, Faster
I have it on my DVR, going to go watch it now :)
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
for sure let me know what you think when you get done
Matthew Stafford, Quarterback: a man barely alive, Gentlemen we can rebuild him, We have the technology, We have the capability to make the worlds first bionic QB, Matthew Stafford will be that man, Better than he was before
Better, Stronger, Faster
Good stuff, I love how a lot of my line of thinking lined up with Parcells
I feel vindicated now LoL. Ayers as a high 2nd rounder, and Ryan Williams as the standout running back wewts!
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
I also noticed the 3rd round guys at LB were pretty much where I thought, he did have Casy Matthews higher on his board than mine though
I also noticed that his DE’s seemed to be weighted towards 3-4 guys, Bowers was 2nd on his board behind Watt, and Quinn was bout 5tth or 6th
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
lol
Gee, there’s a newsflash…;o)
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
you beat me to it Gyorick. recorded it too.
Kerrigan and Aldon Smith were listed above AA. Tuna talked about rating and grading players based on talent,skills,character and passion for the game.
COP:"Do you know why I pulled you over Mr. Dunn ?" ME:" Was I speeding officer?" COP:"A lil bit, but I really wanted to see a SORRY ASS DETROIT LIONS FAN UP CLOSE!" He gave me a ticket for 50 in a 45 zone. So I ask him his team. COP: DA BEARS HAHAAHAHAA
by M10 LIONS FAN on Apr 27, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
A little Jimmy Smith info......
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/120747104.html
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Nice article, really highlights the issues with that guy, I have been hands off on him for a while now
I also saw this over there and could not resist putting it here
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/120669834.html
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Wow I just came across this
http://apps.detnews.com/apps/blogs/lionsblog/index.php?blogid=2735
And I realized that this writer pretty wrote one paragraph of his own, stole a bunch of blurbs from that other article, left it disjointed and did not even portray the whole picture, and then proceeded to conclude that Talib somehow magically plays for the Falcons now instead of the Bucs.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Holy shit!!
I didn’t know about all of that. That makes Jimmy Smith a much bigger risk than I thought. I think that if the Lions are going to take a chance on Jimmy Smith, they need to trade down and get an extra second round pick. That way if Smith ends up a bust they have an extra second round player to help make up for it.
Yeah...or just play it safe and get Harris instead...lol
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
What this shows is Mayhew is a pure grade A bullshitter....lol
You know that he knew about all of Smith’s issues yet put out a load of hogwash about what an upstanding citizens he’s now become. I’m sure there’s more that haven’t even seen the light of day, that he knows about, yet he’s putting out a serious smokescreen on how draftable he is…..I believe nothing Mayhew or Schwartz says when it comes to the draft….Or injuries for that matter.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Of course, I am thoroughly convinced the guy they want is Brandon Harris or Ras-I Dowling
They are the guys that Smith is in contention with and likely would be the ones to smoke screen for.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Actually Mayhew was very sly...
He said that he feels better about Jimmy Smith as a player. That could mean he still thinks JS is a tool as a person.
I also still like Brown...
But not over Brandon Harris.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
I was thinking about you Dawg on the way home from work tonight......
I knew how hot you were on BH early, and I haven’t noticed you pounding the table for him lately. He seems to of faded on the mock scene to some extent.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
I still want him...
But in all likelihood he will not be our pick unless he falls to 44.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
I like Curtis Brown also
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on Apr 28, 2011 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions

by 



























