Ask POD: Who To Keep On The Defensive Line?

by Sean Yuille on May 23, 2011 2:55 AM EDT in Ask Pride Of Detroit

Eddie writes: "I wonder how many of the lower defensive linemen the Lions are going to keep. Is Willie Young gone? Andre Fluellen? Sammie Hill? I guess we will see how it shakes out after training camp, but I like the look of a lot of those guys."

Each of the last two years, the Detroit Lions have kept nine defensive linemen on their roster following the final round of roster cuts. Things can obviously change from year to year depending on what the depth looks like, but I think that's a pretty good indication of how many defensive linemen will be around this year when the 53-man roster is established.

Both in 2009 and 2010, five of the defensive linemen that made the team were defensive ends. A year ago, Kyle Vanden Bosch, Cliff Avril, Turk McBride, Lawrence Jackson and Willie Young made the team, and I expect them all to be back in 2011. Only Young seems in real danger of being on the chopping block, and if he was let go the Lions likely would try to sign him to the practice squad.

At defensive tackle, Ndamukong Suh, Corey Williams, Sammie Hill and Andre Fluellen made the team last year. Suh is obviously not going anywhere, and neither is Hill based on how much potential he has. Williams should be back as well. Adding Nick Fairley into the mix means someone's spot is gone if the Lions keep only four DTs again, and I think Fluellen would be the odd man out.

How many players the Lions decide to keep at each position will be interesting to watch, especially this year with the new kickoff rules going into effect. There is now not quite as big of a need to keep players that excel only in special teams with less kick returns being expected. What that could mean for the Lions is keeping fewer linebackers on the team. A lot of their LBs last season were kept in large part for their special teams abilities, so perhaps this year the Lions will keep another defensive lineman instead of an extra linebacker. That is something to keep an eye on as teams react to the rules changes.

In the end, it would be nice if the Lions could hang on to a guy with upside like Young and a solid depth player like Fluellen. I don't know if they will keep both around considering how solid the rotation of players will be without them, but I would expect at least one of the two to make the team. Both making it is probably a stretch right now, but then again, predicting what the roster will look like is a stretch with free agency and training camp yet to take place.

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Hard to tell

You look at Corey Williams and KVB…they’ve played 7 and 9 seasons respectably. You start to think “how much tread is left on their tires?” I’m not saying get rid of these guys. It would be nice if we could keep all the Dlineman. Time will tell and I have faith in the FO (that still feels strange to say).

LITTLE MAN IN BACKFIELD! LITTLE MAN IN BACKFIELD! GO STEFAN LOGAN!

by BBlades on May 23, 2011 4:28 AM EDT reply actions

The only way we should get rid of KVB is if he'll retire and be a D-Line coach for us

His vet experience and leadership is invaluable to us right now

by WestsideLionsFan on May 23, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions

AKA

Kevin Greene.

Motown313-"spending a first rounder on the next Jared Devries doesn’t seem like a good gameplan."

by CLF on May 23, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Sammie Lee stays

I could see Andre or Willie Young. Young is already 26 or 27. It is not so the much the age. But a combination of his age and where he is in his development.

This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
the Lions D-Line: the Four Horsemen of the A-sac-alypse

by JCruize on May 23, 2011 5:46 AM EDT reply actions

good call...

one could make the same case for McBride.

Motown313-"spending a first rounder on the next Jared Devries doesn’t seem like a good gameplan."

by CLF on May 23, 2011 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions

I don't think so

McBride got plenty of PT last year and was productive, while Young did absolutely nothing. Very different.

by motown313 on May 23, 2011 9:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Mcbride was great at gettign after the QB and causing FF

"We’re looking to improve this team every day, every week, every month until we get to our ultimate goal, which is to win a championship. We have a long way to go," Lions general manager Martin Mayhew

by Lionsfan8 on May 23, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions

My comment wasn't

Necessarily comparing the two….

I will add that McBride’s production kept Willie off the active roster.

As for ‘very different’… McBride had some production… but still lacks disapline with regards to containing the edge…. Is Young a more disciplined rusher? who knows…

All I know is, neither is safe due to the combination of age and development…. which was my initial point.

Fluellen is in the same boat.. but with his size and ability to line up anywhere on the line… may make him more of an asset.

Motown313-"spending a first rounder on the next Jared Devries doesn’t seem like a good gameplan."

by CLF on May 23, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions

I like Turk...

could see a better year from him this season, now that he’s settle in.

" Maybe for a writer...but i am sure most of you can tell i am not a writer". det32

by SmittyJ on May 24, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions

To add...

I think Fluellen has shown his versitality on the line… even getting a sack last year lined up at DE.

Motown313-"spending a first rounder on the next Jared Devries doesn’t seem like a good gameplan."

by CLF on May 23, 2011 7:27 AM EDT up reply actions

good story on just that

from over at roarreport

http://det.scout.com/2/1074491.html

The function of football, soccer, basketball and other passion-sports in modern industrial society is the transference of boredom, frustration, anger and rage into socially acceptable forms of combat. A temporary subsitute for war; for nationalism; identification with something bigger than the self.
Edward Abbey

by yooperlionfan on May 24, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Probably Flu

We are pretty stacked at DT.

RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.

by Hyperion Ecta on May 23, 2011 6:57 AM EDT reply actions

What to do?

If I was the GM and my name was Dave Dombrowski, I would do nothing but worry and wring my hands and hope someone else would figure it out!

by Da Jonesy on May 23, 2011 6:58 AM EDT reply actions

Dombrowski has done good

For the Tigers, but I don’t know if I want him in charge of the Lions.

P.C.P. supporter since March 2011

A Bears fan on Ndamukong Suh+Nick Fairley- "This sort of makes me want to kick myself in the groin. If he plays to his potential this line is going to be all kinds of nightmare for the Bears"

by Enforcer on May 23, 2011 7:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I'm guessing

DE KVB, Avril, LoJack, McBride, Young
DT Suh, Fairley, Hill, Williams, Fluellen

My guess is that they don’t get rid of any of them, however, Young is probably starting on the practice squad.

by JFisch on May 23, 2011 9:20 AM EDT reply actions

You know how I see Young being used in the scheme of this D?

As our poor mans version of Clay Matthews.

.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?

by delusional on May 23, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions

This is great to see...

Who would have seen this coming? The Lions having such quality depth in a position group the FO office has the difficult task of figuring out who to let go. Definitely a good sign on how this team is coming together. Hopefully we continue in this direction and face these tough calls each year in ALL of our postition groups. Glad I ain’t GM….

by Roughneck 7 on May 23, 2011 9:20 AM EDT reply actions

potential move in the making

i remember last year in preseason willie young played really well, hes still a young player, with the linebacker issues the lions have why not convert him? defensive end to outside linebacker?…….at least give it a shot.

by Bigfun313 on May 23, 2011 10:02 AM EDT reply actions

Fluellen is the weak link

He is solid depth but on a team with excellent depth on the line he becomes expendable. Andre was a very good depth player when we needed depth. Now we have it all across the line with excellent talent and Flu can’t compete with any of them. He’s not a bad player but we are passed him. I don’t think he’s needed anymore. I would like to keep him but truth is we won’t. The Lions are on to bigger and better things Fluellen is another guy that will be left behind. Grounds keeper Willy will have a chance to prove himself at some point. Preseason and training camp he will have to show something on special teams or huge strides in development. Practice squad does mean we could lose him but I see Randy Phillips and Caleb Campbell on the starting roster so we do have room for him then.

Clear eyes, Full hearts, Can't lose !

PCP 4 LIFE

by The Profiler on May 23, 2011 10:22 AM EDT via mobile reply actions

I agree with you about Flu

I think we should try to trade him or someone else (C Will maybe? Flipping him for a 2nd or 3rd would be an epic Mayhewing) before it becomes too apparent to everyone else in the league that the Lions are going to cut a solid DLineman

by WestsideLionsFan on May 23, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions

i could see them move flu OR SLH, too. depends on whats out there

but i def. think a DT will get traded.

by haywood on May 23, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions

I think it is going to come down to trade value

Whoever of this group gets us the best value in a trade is probably going to be the one that leaves. I don’t see them cutting any of these guys, but trading for a draft pick or another position I can see happening.

"My grandma could play behind that line!"- Zack Follett

by donl517 on May 23, 2011 12:34 PM EDT reply actions

I should clarify, I certainly don’t see Suh, KVB, or Fairley being the one. I"m thinking more of the solid depth players we have.

"My grandma could play behind that line!"- Zack Follett

by donl517 on May 23, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Lions D-Line

The Lions should sign Anthony Hargrove this off-season when FA opens. We need more pass-rush off the edge, and the Lions were interested in him last year, but he was a RFA. This year he is Unrestricted. So, not only is Fairley a new-comer, but Hargrove as well. That means 2 are gone from last year if we keep 9. The contenders are probably Fluellen, Young, and McBride.

by the_hook on May 23, 2011 12:45 PM EDT reply actions

I would love to have Hargrove.

by Motown_Soldier on May 23, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Trading Williams?

He is a quality starter that most likely won’t be starting for us. So I think we could get something decent for him whether its a player or draft pick. I don’t think we would miss him very much because of the depth we would have with Hill and Flu… Of course it would depend on what other teams would be willing to trade away for him. But anybody else think that could be a good way to go?

Detroit Lions = Super Bowl Champs in 2013... Only thing that could top it is a possible world appocalypse the year before

by Kabideeyeeha on May 23, 2011 1:11 PM EDT reply actions

Williams fits a niche

He’s the veteran SLH. Suh and Fairley are not replacements for him, he’s not expendable.

by Mavyrk on May 23, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions

True

But if he’s such a veteran he really needs to stop jumping offsides, he did that way too much last year.

Detroit Lions = Super Bowl Champs in 2013... Only thing that could top it is a possible world appocalypse the year before

by Kabideeyeeha on May 23, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions

The offsides are part of the number of sacks our DTs generate

For each one of those penalties, you get a jump on the snap count and a sack, TFL, or overall disruption in the middle of the line.

You’re gonna see those forever.

'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela

"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011

by Nate D. on May 23, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah but...

Williams seemed to jump offsides more often than our other D-Linemen, and at times that it hurt us worse (3rd and short situations)…. I just remember a few occasions where it was kind of mind boggling that he would jump off sides given the situation. I understand he is important to the team, but my opinion will be a lot higher if he can take a few less of these penalties.

Detroit Lions = Super Bowl Champs in 2013... Only thing that could top it is a possible world appocalypse the year before

by Kabideeyeeha on May 24, 2011 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions

Well obviously I agree

I’d love to see zero penalties on the team, but it’s give and take – if you want the kind of disruption we seem to cause, you have to take those penalties. It’s all in your philosophy. There’s a nuance to getting a QB’s snap count down, and sometimes you misfire.

Does the risk outweigh the reward? IMO, yes.

'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela

"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011

by Nate D. on May 24, 2011 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions

I could see Hill leaving...

via TRADE only.. for a solid LB or CB.. and only cause he has the most upside for the other team

Lions fan for life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's me looking into the future at the Lions going to the Play-offs by 2011 and going to the Super Bowl in 2012!!!
I drink a lot of "spiked" blue kool-aid... Having no problem sharing cuz it sure is good!!!!

by lionsfan_772 on May 23, 2011 1:22 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah but as much as they like him and as little as he gets paid

I don’t think that would be there first choice.

Clear eyes, Full hearts, Can't lose !

PCP 4 LIFE

by The Profiler on May 23, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions

The smaller contract, could lead to a higher draft pick.

Motown313-"spending a first rounder on the next Jared Devries doesn’t seem like a good gameplan."

by CLF on May 23, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

You aren't gonna get that much out of Sammie

I am a huge fan but he hasn’t showin being worth anything more that a 3rd our 4th at this point. Mostly due to lack of playing time.

Clear eyes, Full hearts, Can't lose !

PCP 4 LIFE

by The Profiler on May 23, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions

unless you trade him to Seattle perhaps.

What are they paying Whitehurst?

Ah but I was so much older then and younger than right now

by Justan Oldfart on May 23, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions

To much

lol

Clear eyes, Full hearts, Can't lose !

PCP 4 LIFE

by The Profiler on May 23, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions

if we squeeze down to 9

then Flu is out, Willie Young is in. I think we keep 9 again this year despite the coverage issues.

C Williams is likely to start until Fairley beats him out. I would guess that C Williams won’t lose the job in camp. I wouldn’t be surprised, however, if competition for that spot next to Suh is very intense and I could also see SLH winning the job. I guess it depends on the camp and offseason. Regardless, I think #3 and #4 will get plenty of snaps this season.

by x$pcents IV on May 23, 2011 4:54 PM EDT reply actions

Chance of rule change?

Is there a chance the new CBA will include an increase in roster spots? If so, this may resolve the issue.

However, if ANY of these guys end up cut and Bryant Johnson is on the team, I’m gonna be a sad panda.

by Big Z in Orlando on May 23, 2011 6:02 PM EDT reply actions

Willy Young could add 10 to 20 lbs to his 6''5" frame this off season

Cliff Avril at the combine
Height:6’3"
Weight:252 lbs.
College:Purdue
Conference:Big 10
Hometown:Green Cove Springs, FL
High School:Clay
Position:DE

Willie Young combine
Height:6’5"
Weight:251 lbs.
College:N.C. State
Conference:ACC
Position:DE

92 Cliff Avril is now 6-3 260

I think Flu is the odd man out..

"In a perfect world, you look for the big, fast guys who can play" Jim Schwartz

by chucka on May 24, 2011 1:04 AM EDT reply actions

Fluellen is a 3rd string Millen guy

Sorry to say, but that just won’t cut it around here nowadays.

'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela

"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011

by Nate D. on May 24, 2011 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions

I am just thinking...

that the Lions might keep Willie Young on the practice squad for another season and keep Fluellen on the active roster for his versatility. One thing that will probably tell us something is whether the Lions tendered Fluellen or not, because I think he is a RFA this season.

by TuffLynx on May 24, 2011 12:11 PM EDT reply actions

I would agree with you on Willie, and would be great if we could do it.

But I really think he would get picked by someone else. Don’t forget about what happened with Murtha.

by Millen_Free on May 24, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions

flueallen is the weakest link trade him for a 7th and get a 5th mayhew can do it

by numba58 on May 24, 2011 12:48 PM EDT reply actions

Flu is def the odd man out...

a rotation between Suh, Corey, Fairley, AND SLH is insane and gives Gunner the opp to throw out some very confusing defensive looks. Flu will be a camp cut if a trade isnt possible. As for the DE position, KVB, Avril, Turk, and LoJack is pretty unreal as well. I think Willie will make it as an insurance policy in the case one of the starters go down we still have quality depth at a very low price. This D-Line is very exciting, to imagine the rotation available and the options for defensive looks they should be able to stay fresh through out the game

by CR on May 24, 2011 1:13 PM EDT reply actions

DL is beastly for sure

I actually think it’s a big reason why our OL did so well in pass protection last year (top 10 in the league for sure), because they were working against Suh and co. in practice every day. By comparison almost every other team’s DL is inferior competition to what they’re going up against in practice.

by WestsideLionsFan on May 24, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Still doesn't explain the abysmal run blocking though

by WestsideLionsFan on May 24, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Kind of does, actually

Our run defense on the line wasn’t nearly as much to write home about.

by Mavyrk on May 24, 2011 10:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Good Bye Flu...

" Maybe for a writer...but i am sure most of you can tell i am not a writer". det32

by SmittyJ on May 24, 2011 4:43 PM EDT reply actions

who to keep?

As far as Fairley replacing Williams on the D Line, it won’t happen. We’ve been drafting and trading just so our D Line can be disruptive! With 1st stringers replacing 1st stringers, who will be blocked? Schwartz already made the statement that he felt Suh played too many downs. This will be an epic Defensive Lion year!!!

by Blackhawk4361 on Jun 1, 2011 9:22 PM EDT reply actions