Grade Martin Mayhew - May 2011
by Sean Yuille on May 25, 2011 3:30 AM EDT
in Detroit Lions Polls
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PrintThe last time Martin Mayhew was given a grade was two months ago. Nothing had really happened since the end of the season, and really the only thing that has happened in the last couple months is the 2011 NFL Draft. Obviously what happened during the draft could have changed some people's grade for Mayhew, but without free agency and trades, he hasn't been given a chance to make a ton of moves.
Regardless, I think now is a good time for everyone to once again evaluate the Lions' general manager. If the lockout ever ends and free agency happens, we can once again grade Mayhew. In the meantime, let's see if Mayhew's grade has changed at all since February, when he was given an A by the majority of voters.
Vote in the poll below and leave your thoughts in the comments. My thoughts are after the jump.
Like the past few polls, I have seen nothing that causes me to lower my grade, so I once again gave Mayhew an A. This year's draft only reaffirmed my grade for Mayhew. The Lions added three instant contributors in Nick Fairley, Titus Young and Mikel Leshoure, and they got a couple of good developmental players later on. The team is in good shape going forward, and I'm really looking forward to what Mayhew has in store for free agency.
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i give him B+
Only because the O-line is pretty much being neglected, and the corners need major improvement.
Stafford will be great!!! If his arms don't fall off!!!
I don't understand how people keep saying CB
We had above avg cb production people
It the LB it is proven you don’t need a top flight cb to win.. In fact heather of the 2 shutdown CBs have even been to one heather has camp
But one thing ever wining team has in comen is a good LB core we need one if we want to win
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
Without causing a fight with ya Det32 I gotta ask this.
You are the 1 that keeps pointing out how we only have like 2 LB’s under contract and that is a main stay in your argument about needing LB’s, but we don’t even have a legit #1 CB right now because Houston isn’t signed so we need CB’s as well as LB’s. And in my opinion CB’s are more of a need than LB’r right now at least we have our #1 LB who is going to be that #1 CB as of right now? Phonz?? Berry?? Vasher??? That’s a scary thought in my mind.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I shouldn't even get in on this one...
but based on what we have at LB right now…you thought Ayers was an improvement? C’mon Man! Zack is a huge ? mark right now…but it was with Carp and Palmer on the outside that helped win those last games. Not saying we’re set at LB, but with Levy, Palmer and Carpenter…That’s a pretty good start.
As for CBs…our corp is not great, but above average. Still have some unproven talent out there. If Phonz learns and understands discipline…WATCH OUT…We WILL NOT see another Brady Thanksgiving (Pun intended). Berry, like our #1 QB has injury concerns, but again, still young and if he takes the tips from one of the elite (Revis), that being tape, tape and more tape…things could turn into Berry Island…which has a better ring to it. Vasher…yeah, not awesome, but still not bad. Houghston…If someone believes that a strong D-Line doesn’t improve a Secondary, he is proof in the pudding. He’s solid and for the time being proven to be the best we have, but he’s also just above average.
I, like you, miss the Spielman days when we had that beast in the middle (almost used gritty again). We’ll get there…but the beast of this scheme is leaner and meaner and more multidimensional.
"They counted on America to be passive...They counted wrong." ~ R. Reagan
Zack carp and Palmer shouldn't even be in the nfl
Some CFL tems have better LB cores dude don’t kid your self
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
get the fuck outta here with that shit
that is completely idiotic.
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
the Lions D-Line: the Four Horsemen of the A-sack-alypse
Have to agree
This “OMG we have no decent LBs” schtick got old before the draft. By now you’re beating a dead and buried horse, det.
Pride of Detroit, for Lions fans | SB Nation Detroit, for Detroit-area sports fans
by Sean Yuille on May 26, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
The truth hurts some times I have 0 fath in this LB core
LB is one of the most inportent positions on D that is proven when you look at wining teams and we have no LB
so if we can’t fix them I can’t see us doing better then 4-12.. it is SOOOOOOO much easier to over come CB (witch ares are above avg any way) then it is LB
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
"The truth hurts"
Since when is your opinion the truth on this matter?
Pride of Detroit, for Lions fans | SB Nation Detroit, for Detroit-area sports fans
The truth is our LB sucked last yer
The truth is we have 2 LB undercontact 3 if you include huge( Dizon will be cut according to MM)
The truth is our CB preferment above avg even with out Houston the improved pass rush will keep it avg at lest
The truth is it is proven that you can win with out a top end secondary the same can not be said about the LBs
RIP KURTIS CHAIVRE
LMAO...What???
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
the Lions D-Line: the Four Horsemen of the A-sack-alypse
I don't agree that they played "very well".....
…but I would call their play below average when compared to other OLBs. And looking at the revolving door that we had at Linebacker for the entire year, I am surprised anyone would expect that group to be anywhere above that. I would love to see what a set group of LBs could do for the entire 2011 season. Even if it is Carpenter and Palmer with Levy.
Although I would be very surprised if the Lions don’t make a move for another [one only] OLB in free agency or by trade.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
Oh Yeah....I gave him an A
"They counted on America to be passive...They counted wrong." ~ R. Reagan
I have to agree with det32.
I like Carpenter Palmer and i think Follett makes the cut, at corner we have Vasher Houston Berry and Smith.
I think that Pratt and Miller will be better than most want to admit. I love what Phonz is going to bring to the table playing behind that beautiful front four. Vasher is a vet and really started to look like he belonged the later half of the season.
Berry is the wildcard and i cant wait to see him play more, as for Houston right now he is apart of the team the way the rules are now and given another year in the system and the growth of the front four Houston will be a great corner for us.
At linebacker we have my favorite Bobby “Boucher” Carpenter who you either love or hate and it could be split down the middle. He started to play well durning the 4 game win streak and both Schwartz and Gun want him back which says alot. Next up is Palmer and alot of PoD is just as high on this kid as i am. He ended up taking the starting job from JP and looked lost at times but also looked really good.
Levy is the man in the middle and will be healthy and looking to make up for lost time. I know that Mayhew has said that Dizon is gone but i think b\c of the lockout he gets another year to show he belongs.
Corners:
Houston – Proven
Vasher- Proven
Smith- Proven
Berry – Tested
Miller – Tested
Pratt – Tested
Linebackers:
Levy – Proven
Carpenter – Tested
Palmer – Tested
Dizon – Tested
Follett – Tested
Hogue – Untested\Unproven
I think Houston will be our version of a shutdown corner and Smith will be the playmaker leading all in iNtS. As much as i like Palmer Carp Follett and Dizon would think that Mayhew Schwartz and Gun all agree that hel is needed here over in other position.
" Maybe for a writer...but i am sure most of you can tell i am not a writer". det32
by SmittyJ on May 25, 2011 7:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not Bad....
Not Bad at all
"They counted on America to be passive...They counted wrong." ~ R. Reagan
Whaaa?
The only thing Alphonso Smith has ‘proven’ is he’s incredibly inconsistent.
Your entire argument is invalidated by that. And Pratt, Miller, and Berry are all ‘tested’? Tested how? In training camp?
You put guys who have like, one year MAYBE of experience on a practice squad of an NFL team in the same area of experience as a former 1st round pick who has played like 4 years? What scale are you grading on?
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
by Nate D. on May 25, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, Smith needs to be in the "tested" category
In no way am I completely comfortable with him, as I am with Houston.
I'm glad they made Flintstone's vitamins because I used to watch The Flintstones and go, "Man I bet you if I ate that dude, I would be healthy."
Houston is the #1 corner on the team...
Imo Smith has proven he belongs and is more than just tested. He is the best playmaker and ball hawk on the roster and i really think that he takes a huge step forward.
" Maybe for a writer...but i am sure most of you can tell i am not a writer". det32
by SmittyJ on May 25, 2011 9:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Smith is incedibly inconsistant
How the hell is he incredibly inconsistant. Why because Brady and Co. light him up who didnt they light up this year.
I would agree that Smith had a off game or two but incredibly inconsistant is like comparing Barry to Emmitt.
Smith was basically learning on the job as a second year player who didnt see alot of playing time his first year not to mention he was in a new scheme. He was one of few playmakers on D and will take a hug step forward imo.
As for Pratt Miller and Berry all tested. Berry looked very good in the preseason as well as in the game against Chi so yeah tested, proven no. Miller looked decent when given playing time as well so i listed him as tested and once again not proven. My only ? mark would be Pratt.
Carpenter has been tested and hasnt proved to be proven yet in his 5 years in the league so yeah he is listed with Smith Berry and Pratt. I like Carp and can see him playing a nice role in the D.
Proven means that they played and showed they can handle the NFL and some could make an arguement that Smith has proven he can play this game.
Tested simple means just that, they were tested and have an upside to there game.
" Maybe for a writer...but i am sure most of you can tell i am not a writer". det32
by SmittyJ on May 25, 2011 8:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Smith tore up most of the season
had a couple bad games and everyone wanted his blood. Truth is the back 7 he was the biggest play maker we had. Consider the QB’s that were beating him in only his first year with any playing experience. The negativity really dosen’t have a ton of support with me.
Clear eyes, Full hearts, Can't lose !
PCP 4 LIFE
by The Profiler on May 25, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually think he was hurt...
" Maybe for a writer...but i am sure most of you can tell i am not a writer". det32
by SmittyJ on May 26, 2011 12:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
well said
agree with all of it
The function of football, soccer, basketball and other passion-sports in modern industrial society is the transference of boredom, frustration, anger and rage into socially acceptable forms of combat. A temporary subsitute for war; for nationalism; identification with something bigger than the self.
Edward Abbey
by yooperlionfan on May 25, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope you're right about phonz
I have doubts at this point not because Brady made him look bad. He didn’t. Deon Branch did and that’s what Smith’s supporters seem to be missing when they explain his poor performance that game. Add to that he followed with a poor, granted not as poor, performance in the next game and I am left hoping for a more proven commodity as our #2 guy this year. I am still excited about his ball hawking attributes but I don’t think he’s ready for that yet.
Ah but I was so much older then and younger than right now
by Justan Oldfart on May 25, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Boy did you guys all get side tracked from me and DET32's conversation.....
I’m saying that our secondary is in worse shape because Houston isn’t on the roster and DET32 is saying that because he only have Levy basically signed our LB’s are in a more dire need of talent. . . .So back to you 32. you would rather have Berry who has like 1 game of experience from last year and that was early in the season, and phonz who is a HUGE liability in the run game and with his gambling and size he can not EVER be a true #1 CB on any team, not facing WR’s who all average 6’2" or better and Phonz is like 5’10" I think and light. I don’t care how good our D-line is all a QB has to do is throw a jump ball towards Phonz and it should be a completion. Not to mention Phonz only has like 6 or 7 games of experience as well. You have to be kidding me Det 32 I mean I still believe that houston and both our LB’s that finished the year as starters are all going to sign and I still think we are going to get 1 of the top 3 CB’s when FA period starts.but as the roster sits as of today;because you want to always talk about technically they are not signed; I would upgrade our CB’s before our LB’s.
How many lumps you want Doc?
No...
I agree with det32 and think that the LB s are the weaker link on the D. Houston is still apart of the team and until that changes linebacker is the bigger need.
I love Palmer and Carpenter just not as much as Phonz Berry and Vasher.
" Maybe for a writer...but i am sure most of you can tell i am not a writer". det32
by SmittyJ on May 26, 2011 12:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Your absolutely right it was Branch...
but how many times has Brady light up solid to good corners with know name wr. I have to believe what i seen from Smith until that game is what we will get week in week out.
His playmaking and ball hawking abilities alone make him a must to have on the field. I really think that Smith was hurt against NE and just couldnt do the things we all come to expect from him.
It wasnt long after and he was done for the season. Oldfart you have seen many more games than me but its time trust in Smitty rather its me or him lol.
Phonz will be great and the progress that the front four has made as well as Smith will all be great stepping stones for his growth.
" Maybe for a writer...but i am sure most of you can tell i am not a writer". det32
by SmittyJ on May 26, 2011 12:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What?!?!?!
Preseason action and part of one game until an injury is ‘tested’ in the NFL?
There must be a hell of a lot of proven players as backups in this league then.
Your definition of tested includes pretty much every player in the NFL short of rookies that have not played yet, so I’ll leave you to that. Craziness.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Key word for ya buddy "UPSIDE"...
its an oppinion and obviously shared by M & S. If they felt that he couldnt play this game being a udfa i am almost positive they would of released him over Bly and damn sure wouldnt have carried him all season after his injury.
" Maybe for a writer...but i am sure most of you can tell i am not a writer". det32
by SmittyJ on May 26, 2011 12:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nate D. I ll leave you with that....
basically your saying Detroit carried a player 16 games b/c they fell he will be a good addition to the bench, that my friend is Craziness Craziest and just plain Crazy.
" Maybe for a writer...but i am sure most of you can tell i am not a writer". det32
by SmittyJ on May 26, 2011 12:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with Nate here.
I would even throw in Vasher into the “Tested” group. He really did not play much and I am still not sure what we have with him. He could be a good depth player for us, but there is a reason he did not have a spot on anyone’s roster for awhile.
Houston is the only “Proven” corner we have, although what he has proven is that he is really not a shutdown or even # 1 CB.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
Eh
They’re improving what they can with what they can get.
Until this team is “finished”, everything is a need. Well, maybe not quarterback (but you never know…).
by metatron5369 on May 25, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
A
How was this guy under Millen at one point?
by TheForceOfFollett on May 25, 2011 8:45 AM EDT reply actions
The apple fell far from the tree.
Or in this case, rolled down a steep hill, hitched a ride on a car, went to the airport, caught a plane, and went as far away from the tree as possible.
"We’re looking to improve this team every day, every week, every month until we get to our ultimate goal, which is to win a championship. We have a long way to go," Lions general manager Martin Mayhew
by Lionsfan8 on May 25, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Nice analogy. Deserves to go green.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
Nice
RIP Robyn Bailey 1961 - 2010. I love you mum.
by Hyperion Ecta on May 26, 2011 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Millen is FAT... When martin was under him, he had a hard time breathing.
"Lemme Tell you why I have confidence in the long term future of this team... It's #9, That's why I have confidence in the long term future of this Team." - Jim Schwartz
From what I understand....
The War Room was pretty much chaos during that time and TOWSNBN didn’t exactly take opposing arguments well.
"They counted on America to be passive...They counted wrong." ~ R. Reagan
B
I thought long and hard about giving him an A, but I’m still not 100% sold on the draft. No question about Fairley’s talent and value at that pick, but still too many needs on this team to ignore. I’ll feel more comfortable giving him an A if the team continues to improve this season. If so, he definitely deserves it!
A
but it’s really an incomplete A because his first draft class has yet to complete it’s third year. I fully expect the A to remain however.
Ah but I was so much older then and younger than right now
A
You have to give him an A at this point because of the quality that he’s consistently added to the team both through the years at this point, and this year’s draft.
I don’t think it’s fair to give him anything lower than that because of the lack of CBs, OLBs, and O-line improvements, mostly because he hasn’t had the opportunity to mess with Free Agency and trades yet. He’s shown that he’s very strong in both of those areas, and I’m fully confident that he’ll find pieces in both of those areas to fill needs before the season starts.
by ozymandius1024 on May 25, 2011 9:24 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Eric Coleman?
"Lemme Tell you why I have confidence in the long term future of this team... It's #9, That's why I have confidence in the long term future of this Team." - Jim Schwartz
Vasher, Simms, Palmer,Sheff.
that’s 4 right there.Williams is a 5th. Phonz is a 6th.I don’t understand what you are even referring to because we have seen Mayhew make moves to not only bring in talent via trade and Mayhewing of other teams but how else do you bring in people to a organization. . UH FA; draft; Trade…..
How many lumps you want Doc?
cough
you just said all of those players suck?
Simms made a huge difference on the O line, Scheff was a reliable outlet receiver until he got dinged up late in the season, Vasher helped seal up one of those 4 games we won at the end of the season. Lets not forget about C. Will. Yeah he has his share of off sides calls on him but he was a force in the middle. Phonz had one bad game and showed a ton of potential.
You can’t have pro bowl players at every position. These guys all performed admirably for us when they were called upon.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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+100
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Um...
I think Sheff worked with Liney…
"They counted on America to be passive...They counted wrong." ~ R. Reagan
Um... no.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
i'm sorry
i can’t take it anymore, YOU sir, are an idiot, who lives to bitch and complain, and it’s getting really tired. so not only are you an expert on who and why the lions draft the way they do (sarcasm). but you know more about any player than anybody, including mayhew/schwartz. lol. you haven’t even seen coleman suit up for us yet, and he already sucks. also, simms? are you kidding me. scheffler,phonz, all suck. wow,actually the only thing thats sucking around here lately, is your constant negative attitude.
The function of football, soccer, basketball and other passion-sports in modern industrial society is the transference of boredom, frustration, anger and rage into socially acceptable forms of combat. A temporary subsitute for war; for nationalism; identification with something bigger than the self.
Edward Abbey
by yooperlionfan on May 25, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I've found just to let him go off on his ignorant tangents whenever he feels the need
He is right all the of time, we are not. It’s just the way it is.
I'm glad they made Flintstone's vitamins because I used to watch The Flintstones and go, "Man I bet you if I ate that dude, I would be healthy."
I also get my football knowledge from playing Madden ; )
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
the Lions D-Line: the Four Horsemen of the A-sack-alypse
What do you you mean ties to the FO?
He got Nate Burleson, who came up big for the Lions this year. He got Kyle Vanden Bosch, and everyone saw what that did for the line and the defense as a whole. Like Davis said below, he also picked up Ashlee Palmer and Nathan Vasher for nothing.
The FA wasn’t even the biggest part of what I was saying, the big part is the ability to make trades. He has shown very clearly to me that he can very easily acquire pieces that are very useful for a reasonable (or less) cost. Whenever the lockout ends and Mayhew can start calling other GMs, I think the team will really start to take shape in the areas that people see as major weaknesses.
Just think, as early as 2009 defensive line was seen as a weakness for the Lions. After ONE AND A HALF SEASONS most experts are saying that Detroit may very well have one of (if not the) best defensive lines in all of football. Just think of what the defense is going to look like when he turns his attention towards LB or CB.
by ozymandius1024 on May 25, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he means to the coaching staff.
ie. KVB to Schwartz. Nate to Linehan.
The other guys we got as FAs were pretty much unwanted. Guys like Palmer, Carpenter, Thomas, Bryant J., Grady Jackson, Mo Morris, Buchanon, Vasher, CC Brown, etc.
I’m not saying they all suck, but there are more than a few misses in there.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
Who were the 'misses'?
I really only see Julian Peterson as a ‘miss’. We got players befitting our position in the NFL at the time. Who were we supposed to be able to draw after 0-16? Grady Jackson was a good pickup at the time.
Palmer has potential. Carpenter and Alphonso are former 1st rounders who absolutely have the ability to succeed. Bryant Johnson was never meant to be anything more than a #3 reciever, something we don’t even use much, and he was, I guess, a ‘miss’. Morris and Vasher have outplayed what we spent for them, IMO. I don’t think CC Brown was ever meant to really start – he was a body. Buchanon was worth hanging onto I think, he could have easily been the #2 CB here with Houston and Alphonso…
Point being, I don’t see what other options they had that you wanted them to take advantage of. You think Mayhew saw all these great free agents on the board and said, nah, we’ll opt for the guys who no one wants.
You can’t fault him for the team not being an attractive place to play. Amazing how that’s changing now, and the caliber of FA’s available to us is also changing… KVB, Burleson, etc.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
Hey, Nate. I think Mayhew has done a great job overall.
His best work has been in his trades, and then drafting. The FAs have been the weakest part of his resume, but overall the FAs have still been pretty good.
I did not like Grady Jackson and don’t think he added much to the Lions D Line. Bryant J. ? Come on! He has been horrible. There had to have been better WRs available.
Like I said, I gave Mayhew an A, but I don’t think he is perfect.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
by NorthLeft12 on May 25, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Even thou you are defending my points here Nate
I believe Peterson and Johnson were here prior to the new regime.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Fair enough
And I agree on most of those. Thing is, they were all small signings (Bryant Johnson maybe a little bit above that, and I’ll definitely concede on that one). KVB and Nate were both major FA signings, and I think they both worked out well.
A team that is built through trades and the draft like the Lions have done so far shouldn’t need to delve into the FA market too often anyway, it’s not like they’re the Redskins or anything.
by ozymandius1024 on May 25, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Booooooooo
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
the Lions D-Line: the Four Horsemen of the A-sack-alypse
C'mon, det.
I’m not gonna lie, I’m concerned about the LB situation too, but that alone ain’t enough to justify a C when you consider the overall amount of talent he’s acquired since taking over.
by motown313 on May 25, 2011 1:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hairline downgrade for me
Before, it would have been a 95%. Now it’s a 94. I just felt that the Lions could have done better in the second round. I like the young pick but I think they overpaid for a position that’s easy to fill through free agency. I also don’t feel that Lesboure has that high of a ceiling. he reminds a bit of Michael Bush
House of Spears | My Detroit Lions/NFL Blog
by Latif Masud on May 25, 2011 10:07 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Um I can only hope he is as good a runner and player as BUSH either of them.
Michael Bush is 1 of the more underrated RB’s in the league the last few years. Because he was a Raider most people don’t realize how good of a runner he actually is, now if Bush could have stayed healthy he would have been an PB’r for the last 2 years for sure.
How many lumps you want Doc?
I would have loved to see the Lions pick up Michael Bush this offseason.
He would have been the perfect complement to Jahvid Best IMO. If Leshoure comes in and can play like Bush from the get go, I will be very happy. I think that Mikel will exceed Bush’s performance as he will get more opportunity and will be less the focus on the Lions offence.
Bush’s stats are not that great because he has not got the opportunity to play much behind McFadden. It is doubtful that the Raiders would have let him go very easily.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
by NorthLeft12 on May 25, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you're underestimating Leshoure, Latty Ice.
Don’t worry, your concerns will be eased after you see this dude play.
by motown313 on May 25, 2011 1:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
IMO. The best RB in the draft
I said this before. We are going to love Mikel when the Lions play GB and Chi in the bad weather. And the running game is the difference.
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
the Lions D-Line: the Four Horsemen of the A-sack-alypse
I gave him an A
I love what he has done in such a short time, he has turned this franchise around faster than anyone could have even dreamed about and his prowless in “Mayhewing” other teams getting more than what he should from every move he has made gives him an A just on that. Now you talk about how him and Coach have taken a bunch of refugee’s from other teams like Houston and Palmer;Carpenter;Lo-Jack;Simms;Williams;Phonz and allowed these guys to come in here and contribute the ways that they have and I want to give both of them A+++ on that alone. Now if he and coach can pull a couple more rabbits out of the hat when this FA period starts there is NO grade good enough for what he has done in a mere 3 years time. we all talked when Staff was drafted that in 3 years time we would be happy to at least be competitive and hell all the “guru’s” have us contending for playoff spots if not for the division tidal. . . . Yeah that’s an A+++ in my book.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Amen
The sheer amount of change in such a short span of time is remarkable. If you would have told me that the 2011 season would be so promising back in 2008, I never would have believed it. Mayhew gets an A.
by DesolationRow on May 25, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
B
I overall like how the draft played out and how he has built the team to this point, but until his “brillance” pays off in the W column theres no reason for an A.
I say B
because no matter how much I like what he has done, they have won 8 games in his 2 1/2 seasons as GM.
You can't count wins only.
That 1/2 season has nothing to do with his GM abilities. He had a crap team to work with. While they do only have 8 wins in the 2 full seasons and 4 of those are the last 4 played, the team he has built is what dictates his grade which is an A.
P.C.P. supporter since March 2011
A Bears fan on Ndamukong Suh+Nick Fairley- "This sort of makes me want to kick myself in the groin. If he plays to his potential this line is going to be all kinds of nightmare for the Bears"
by Enforcer on May 25, 2011 11:08 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agree with the B
Not counting the wins only. Really like the moves he has made and the draft strategy seems to be coming together especially for a shortened off-season. But, wins are certainly a part of the grade. I’m reserving an A until there is a complete season to above .500 in the near future.
by Hungry Lion on May 25, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
But you are basing
that “building” on a projection of future results. Is the team he has built really that great if they go 6-10 again next year?
No I am basing it on value.
He traded Roy Williams for 3 picks, one of which was a first rounder. He traded very low round picks to get starters in Sims, CWill, and Lo Jack. He traded Gronkowsik, who was about to be cut, for the Phonz, who got 6 picks while heathy. He got 6 starters for nothing. That is why I feel he earned an A.
P.C.P. supporter since March 2011
A Bears fan on Ndamukong Suh+Nick Fairley- "This sort of makes me want to kick myself in the groin. If he plays to his potential this line is going to be all kinds of nightmare for the Bears"
by Enforcer on May 25, 2011 11:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
An easy A.
Mayhew took an old, talent poor, depth deficient team that inspired zero confidence for the future and has made that team considerably younger, with some playmakers and leaders on both sides of the ball, plus real NFL quality depth at a few positions, to put out a team that people are optimistic about for the near and long term.
Is there more to do? Of course there is. There is no denying that there is a high level of confidence among Lions fans that Mayhew will deal with the existing roster shortcomings and field a team that can compete and beat any team in the NFL on a regular basis.
That is why he deserves an A.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
by NorthLeft12 on May 25, 2011 11:00 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
some one green that
I have a 9" personality
by Waitingfortheroar on May 25, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
resources and opportunities are scarce
because of that fact, expecting him to take (arguably) the worst team ever assembled, to a great team in this short period of time unreasonable.
apart from the derrick williams over mike wallace pick, i dont see how he could have done any better.
for those people upset that he didnt reach for players to fill holes, ill say it again:
You end up trading long term success for short term gain. you end up worse for it. You HAVE to get the best players that fit your system. and this year he got the best DT in the draft, a WR that can play inside or out (that will allow CJ and NB to move around and create confusion), and a great complementary back, to what they have in place with great value. Easy A
Sorry B at best.
WHY? I do think that the CB’s are going to be OK, I do think that we remain weak at the LB with no depth and the biggest problem is the lack of attention to the OL. Yea I know that alot of people disagree. We have a good strong starting OL and only the injuries kept them from playing better and that Petterman played on one leg. Well we really have no back-up players for RG, C, LG or LT for that matter. One injury to any of them and we have to put someone in who is less than a one-legged Petterman and if that happens you can realy kiss much of the season goodby. More QB injuries and no running game, so until we get more strength up front with some kind of back-up I will not grade higher than a B, sorry.
you're really short changing our depth
Fox was also hurt throughout his rookie season, he’s now healthy and so is Peterman. With Gos, we’ll have to wait and see, early indications are positive. Hilliard was solid as well. I agree we need a top notch guard and or center for depth…
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
RT does have depth
Fox and Hillard filled in at RT which I didn’t mention. Using a one-legged team penalty leading Peterman most of the season and saying that we have nothing better is really saying something and its not good.
A
but that is based on an assumption that he will make some real moves in FA and trades once it opens up (it will!). So this is more of a prediction based on past evidence (past two seasons of wheeling and dealing). I would picked up a CB in the draft, but we selected quality players and we’ll see how things will turn out when we’re in Tampa…
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
that was a quote from a Bears fan
I’m not “T. Moore”…
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
hahahaha
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
B
Sorry, can’t give an “A” until I see the Lions in the post-season.
He’s done a great job, but without the actual payoff (wins), I have trouble giving 100% credit. Joey Harrington/ Mike Williams/ [insert Millen pick name here] was supposed to be a great pick too. I’m not saying this team is doomed to fail, in fact like most others on here, I really think they’re gonna win a lot of games this year. What I’m saying is, until they do, it doesn’t matter. We can talk about potential all day, but that doesn’t get you a championship. Winning does. That’s what this league is about.
A
’nuff said
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
the Lions D-Line: the Four Horsemen of the A-sack-alypse
JCruize Damn you !!
That is exactly what I was going to type !!
A
Mayhew not only had to replenish a virtually talentless roster, but he had to completely change the culture of this team. That is no small feat. The fans have noticed. Other players have noticed. And the national media has definitely noticed. Martin Mayhew made this team relevant again. And with the resources he had, what more could he have possibly done in so short a period of time?
by Stephen02120 on May 25, 2011 2:00 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
A
He took over a winless team 2 years ago that had little talent. Now our roster is loaded with young playmakers on both sides of the ball and we haven’t even had 3 full offseasons yet.
Not me Yps
I still have nightmares about the Thanksgiving day game when the score was 21-0 after 6 plays against the Titans. Or how about how EVERY QB that should have been on a waiver wire coming into our house and having career games and HOF stats against us. What about every RB that was in a wheelchair running for over 100 yards a game. . . No I have not forgotten how PATHETICALLY bad we were a mere 3 years ago.
How many lumps you want Doc?
OUCH....
Yeah….Thanks for the memories….Dammit, where’d I put my Kool-Aid to numb the pain…
"They counted on America to be passive...They counted wrong." ~ R. Reagan
YEP!
And that’s why Mayhew gets an A. Say what you want about numbers and wins and shit (I think I had this argument ad naseum the year after he took over) but Mayhew and Co. have turned this team into a respectable NFL team, something we haven’t been in well over a decade.
And he only took about 2 or 3 years to do it, not the 5-10 I would have imagine it would take.
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
To be honest Nate
I didn’t even see us being this good in 5-10 years after how horrible we were at everything that year. I mean we could not tackle for shit, could not cover a practice squad WR, had 1 of the lightest D-lines that got pushed all over the place. . .It was so painful to watch every game that year. And add to it how pathetic our Offense was after we looked so good in the pre-season games.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Come on its an A
Lets start looking at this by area. First OL which everybody seems to bash at one point or another. First since Barry retired when in the NFL has there been a 2000+ yard rusher. I can only think of one maybe two. Rushing the ball is dead in the NFL so do not worry about it. In 2009 he kept the OL the same just tried to throw somebody at that LG position. He did the same thing every where else after cutting half the team. In 2010 he found Sims by swindling a deal with Seattle. Next lets look at playmakers in 2009 uhm we had none outside of Megatron. So we have been spending a lot of time in upgrading skill positions on the offensive side of the ball.
Defense is next. The players remaining from our 2008 season is 2 on the defensive line and those were rookies. So with 13 DL that we carry 11 are new to the franchise. That is upgrading talent you need a strong DL to win case in point the NYG and their superbowl team after defeating NE. Next is the LBs okay I give its not the best but first year he tried to find some players but it just did not work out and only one remains for the most part, Follett is a question mark right now. But he has picked up players to throw at that position and remember nobody from the 08 season is left in that area. Last is DBs. Okay we have one good safety and a prospect. CBs are a little rough but they are still young and improving. Thats the key thing to remember very few players remain on the defensive side of the ball from the 08 season are still here.
Going forward I would expect Mayhew to find a few FA CBs to push our current ones along with a LB or two. Not to mention just camp fodder to ease the pressure on the ones we plan on keeping. That and possible Mayhewing a team or two for draft picks for these camp fodder players. BTW for those that want to see Bly play for the Lions, don’t count on it. Bly would only be picked up if there is an injury and Mayhew could not swing a deal for him to another team.
B
time to start grading this team on a higher scale. He has done a great job don’t get me wrong. To get an A now that means a playoff team to me. We need a corner he takes a DT now it isn’t that Fairley isn’t a great pick but we will have to wait and see on that decision. What happens in free agency and the trade market could make that pick historical perhaps. Same with Schwartz and company the work they did to get here gave them an A. On a tougher scale they get a B because this team is ready to make a playoff spot they now have to prove they can take it that far. Mayhew has done a fantastic job but grading him based on what Millen and what he in inherited has passed. Now it’s time to look at Ted Thompson and Ozzie Newsome and see where Mayhew ranks. Time to make the next step! You get an A for doing that.
Clear eyes, Full hearts, Can't lose !
PCP 4 LIFE
You can
But its an argument you can’t win.
P.C.P. supporter since March 2011
A Bears fan on Ndamukong Suh+Nick Fairley- "This sort of makes me want to kick myself in the groin. If he plays to his potential this line is going to be all kinds of nightmare for the Bears"
by Enforcer on May 25, 2011 2:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Everyone has there own opinion
But for everyone who did say that Playoffs must be had in order to give an A, remember this. . .Staff alone could have put us in that boat last year. I know all we really saw was pre-season and thats against vanilla defense’s, but that offense was almost unstoppable with Staff out there, and the Lions were leading both games that he started but did not finish and we won the only game he completed. I am the constant optimist (glass half full) and I still think we would have not only been in the playoff chase last year but we would have been in the hunt to win the damn division out right last year IF staff would have been healthy for the entire season.
How many lumps you want Doc?
All hypothetical man
IF is alot diffrent from DID or DIDN’T lol just sayin. Like I said though he has had an A up until this point but I am looking foreward to next season and grading on a harder scale than before. This is the year to make that jump. I do feel very positive that the jump will be made and when it does everyone gets and A…Even BJ if he is on the roster lol.
Clear eyes, Full hearts, Can't lose !
PCP 4 LIFE
by The Profiler on May 25, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Unless he is actually giving BJ's to the 3 starters in front of him when they come off the field
I don’t even want him on the practice squad. cause frankly I don’t see any team even taking him off our hands from the waiver wire.
How many lumps you want Doc?
A...im basing it off of moves we have seen made rather than record....
really how many GM’s can hit on SO many trades, picks, and FA….it is remarkable. we got go many guys for next to nothing..and the rebuilding process has been accelerated by some FA guys like KVB and Burlesson
Thanks for the year Red Wings!! Come back strong in 2012
A Strong B
You can’t give someone an A based on the goodwill and hype that the Lions are currently getting. It doesn’t mean he isn’t a great GM but keep in mind we had low expectations after Millen. I believe you need to have at least 5 solid drafts and more experience and playoff appearances before you can christen him a genius. Everyone needs room for improvement. Look at the Steelers dynasty or the Patriots who consistently year in an year out produce. If Mayhew keeps making these type of decisions its possible he will earn that A and a future dynasty for Detroit.
A........ So far.
The mustashio moron proved that even a team completely lacking in talent could, for some people, be difficult to draft for. Mayhew has so far shown the ability to add talent to where the moron could not.
IMHO, his most difficult work lies before him. This draft and how our newest players work out, along with his next two drafts are going to define his as a GM. Continuing to Add talent to a team that is starting to bristle with genuine professional players, that is the sum of a successful GM.
He has not even hit the difficult part of his career with the Lions.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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I agree as well
He deserves an “A” so far. But really, M***en had a good draft once that turned out to be awful. He’s most definitely added so much talent in a short period of time, but we don’t know how it’s all going to turn out. Once we start winning, I’ll be more inclined to give a solid “A” for awhile.
I'm glad they made Flintstone's vitamins because I used to watch The Flintstones and go, "Man I bet you if I ate that dude, I would be healthy."
Glass half full guy here.
Based on what we got, an A+
by Mavyrk on May 25, 2011 9:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
i dont understand
why people are grading him on what holes exist. it should be based on how he manages his resources. and apart from one 3rd round pick, he has been almost perfect. sure there are still holes, but those arent there because of him, they are there because the resources it would take to eliminate them (picks, tradeable players) havent existed, yet.
agree
It’s like we need to have the best secondary AND the best D-line at the same time 3 yrs after being 0-16
Mayhew - " I think there are also a lot of positions where you see what's on the horizon and look down the road and look around the corner, it might not make sense on its face right now to add a player, but if you look down the road, it makes sense to add a player.'' Notice how he said "corner"
by StaffordSuperBowlMVP on May 25, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
if we had the best line, and the best corners,
We could live with mediocre LBs. I say make a play for Nnamdi as soon as free agency starts, when ever that will be.
Stafford will be great!!! If his arms don't fall off!!!
as for the o-line
I like the guy we drafted this year. I read he was a 4 years starter in college. I like those players, especially on the O-line. Next year, and the year after I think we should dedicate some draft picks for the line.
Stafford will be great!!! If his arms don't fall off!!!
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