SB Nation Detroit Editor's Pick
A Tuff Look at the Lions Linebackers - Part 2 - Linebacker Profile
In the first part of this series on the Lions linebackers, we talked about the players that the Lions have on their roster, or have a very good chance of signing back to the squad. In that article I concluded that if the Lions do not sign a free agent linebacker, the projected starting lineup would probably be Levy in the middle with Carpenter and Palmer on the outside, based on statements by Martin Mayhew. We also looked at the backups being chosen from Zack Follett, Isaiah Ekejuiba, Doug Hogue and Caleb Campbell.
While this is where we are at now, is this where we want to be? I think the answer to that is an emphatic NO! The Lions have some pieces at the linebacker position that could be long term solutions, but they are far from having the final pieces in place. To understand what the Lions want, we have to take a look at the defensive scheme of Jim Schwartz and the type of linebackers the Lions are looking for.
Scoping the System
The most important thing to know about the type of defense that Jim Schwartz plays, is that he likes flexible players that can adjust to the situation on the field without making substitutions. The Schwartz defensive philosophy demands that linebackers are able to play both the strong and weak side. The Lions emphasize this fact by calling the outside linebackers left and right rather than strong and weak. Both outside linebackers are expected to understand the roles on both the strong and weak side and adjust what they do according to how the offense lines up. You will not see linebackers switching sides to adjust based on where the tight end moves.
One of the things you can count on in the Schwartz defense is that linebackers are expected to defend passes. No team in the NFL, that plays the 4-3 defense, have more snaps taken by linebackers than Detroit. This was also true in Tennessee when Jim Schwartz was defensive coordinator there. Schwartz really does not like to switch out of the base defense to bring in nickel and dime packages on passing downs.
When you think about it, this makes perfect sense. By switching to a nickel or dime package you are sacrificing the ability to defend the run based on the assumption that the opposing team is going to pass. But you are also giving the other team more options by weakening your rushing defense and making the draw play, or screen passes, more feasible. If you keep the base defense in play, you retain the ability to defend whatever the opposition might do. You need a base defense that can defend both the pass and the run to do that, so you need linebackers that can defend the pass.
The burden of defending both the pass and the run falls primarily on the linebackers and safeties in the Schwartz defense. The cornerbacks are expected to be able to read the run and make plays, but their primary responsibility is to cover the wideouts. In the ideal situation, the Lions want the safeties to be able to cover additional receivers without shifting into a nickel or dime package. The linebackers are responsible for short zones. They will pick up the tight ends and running backs that go out into passing routes.
This is not saying that the Lions will not play any nickel or dime packages. If the opponent comes out with four wide receivers, it is likely the Lions will respond with additional defensive backs in the secondary as well. It is not smart to expect a linebacker to cover a wide receiver unless they are amazing at pass coverage.
The defensive package the Lions will put on the field really depends on how many safeties they wish to drop into deep coverage after accounting for the four wide receivers. They will use a nickel package if they are satisfied with only one deep safety, and a dime package if they want to play prevent defense with two deep safeties, The more confident the coaches are in the ability of their cornerbacks to cover the receivers, the more linebackers they will keep in the game to help shut down plays that are underneath the coverage.
The Lions do not blitz linebackers very often, but that does not mean they wouldn't under the right circumstances. Both Jim Schwartz and Gunther Cunningham prefer that pressure on the passer is accomplished by defensive line. They subscribe to the idea that blitzes become less effective if you do them all the time. Schwartz and Gunny both like to use blitzes as a way to keep the opponent off balance and create opportunities for a big play.
By blitzing sparingly, but effectively, the Lions force to opposition to delay in releasing tight ends and running backs into passing routes. That little bit of extra time reduces how long the linebackers are forced to cover these players and gives the defensive line some time to get to the quarterback before some of their check-downs are available.
Given the Lions defensive philosophy, we need to understand that linebackers are expected to be good in pass coverage. The more ground they can cover the better the Lions coaches will like them. But the coaches do not want to make a big sacrifice in rushing defense to accomplish this goal. The linebackers and safeties in the Lions defense are expected to be a jack-of-all-trades more than anybody else on the field.
Profile of a Linebacker
The requirements of the defensive system tell the Lions what type of player is needed to play at a linebacker position. The prototype Lions linebacker must fast enough to cover running backs and tight ends in coverage. The Lions seem to want guys that can run the 40 yard dash in the 4.7 second range or better. But it is just as important that they are agile defenders that can quickly adjust to cuts in a pass pattern.
Because the linebackers are also expected to defend against the run, they are must be big enough to take on a running back as well. The Lions favor players that are aggressive in attacking the run and will fill gaps in the defense. Jim Schwartz especially likes guys that will deliver a blow when they reach the ball carrier. Good tackling skills are very important.
The requirement for speed and agility will limit how big the linebackers will be. The Lions have been targeting guys that are over 6 feet tall and heavier than 230 lbs as a rule of thumb. This will not make them beastly against the run, but they will be capable of taking on running backs.
Lions linebackers are not required to have great ability to rush the quarterback. The Lions place more importance on pass coverage, but that does not mean the coaches would not love for the linebackers to have the ability to blitz effectively when asked. Count this one as a nice bonus if the linebacker has the ability.
The Lions have selected three linebackers in the NFL draft since Martin Mayhew and Jim Schwartz have taken over. If we look at these three picks we can see how they meet the critera that is in the linebacker profile that we have.
Deandre Levy
Deandre Levy represents the highest round draft pick that the Lions have spent for a linebacker. He was selected in the third round of the 2010 NFL draft with pick #76 overall. Levy was measured at 6'2" tall and 236 lbs during the 2010 NFL combine. He ran a 4.56 second 40 yard dash. All of these numbers fit the Lions profile.
In order to look at the skills of Levy, we should refer to the scouting reports about him...
Sports Illustrated
POSITIVES: Strong, athletic linebacker who started to pull the pieces together last season. Physical, aggressive, and attacks ball carriers. Collapses from the outside to defend the run, strong at the point, and defeats blocks to get to the action. Chases the play hard, and displays a good burst of closing speed. Plays with balance, rarely off his feet, and nicely redirects to ball carriers. Improved his reads, instincts, and ability in coverage last season.
NEGATIVES: Inefficient, at times a bit too quick to come up the field on play-action passes, and does not always take proper angles to the action. For the most part, marginal skills in coverage for a smallish linebacker.
CBS Sports
Positives: Very physical at the line, takes on fullbacks in the hole or tight ends on the edge to allow other players to make the tackle. … Uses above-average arm length to effectively wrap up and form tackle in the open field. … Has better straight-line speed and quickness than most college strong-side linebackers. … Handles coverage responsibilities against tight ends and running backs in the flat. … Smart, assignment-sure defensive leader.
Negatives: A bit stiff in the hips, works best in a straight line. … Backpedal is tall and choppy. … Not explosive closing on the ball. … Gets caught up in traffic too much. … Does not use his hands or speed to beat linemen when blitzing, although he can dispose of running backs. … Lines up in a stack, but must learn how to play as a nine-technique.
These reports tell us that the skills Levy possesses closely mirror what the Lions look for in our profile. There is room for improvement, but there always will be for any draft pick.
Levy has cemented himself in a starting role for the Lions. Even if Levy is moved outside because of a new player acquisition, he will still start at one of the linebacker spots. Currently, Levy represents the only "sure thing" among the Lions linebacker corps.
Zack Follett
The Lions selected Zack Follett in the seventh round of the 2010 NFL draft with the 235th overall pick. He was 6'2" tall and 238 lbs at his Pro Day in 2010, where he ran the 40 yard dash in 4.69 second. He meets the Lions profile for a linebacker based on his size.
Here are some scouting reports for Zack Follett...
Sports Illustrated
POSITIVES: Instinctive linebacker who plays with good instincts. Breaks down well, quick in his head, and immediately locates the ball. Effective in run defense, fires up the field, and wraps up tackling. Tough, and works hard to get involved in the action.
NEGATIVES: Displays marginal skill in pursuit and lacks speed to the sidelines. Struggles in coverage, displaying a poor backpedal and average ball skills.
CBS Sports
Positives: Broad frame with the room for an additional 10-15 pounds of muscle mass. … Improved play recognition as he gained experience. … Plays with reckless abandon on every snap. … Forcefully takes on blocks with an impressive pop that can gain him the separation he needs to make big plays behind the line of scrimmage. … Downhill defender who can explode into the ballcarrier and has forced eight fumbles over his career, despite only emerging as a full-time starter in 2007. … Looks to intimidate his opponent. … Reads the quarterback's eyes and will break on the ball.
Negatives: Relies on his aggression and physicality to make the play. … Inconsistent in his reads. … Will take false steps and can be beaten over the top by play-action. … At his best coming off the edge as a pass rusher, but showed only marginal technique when facing athletic pass blockers who could absorb his initial charge as a pass rusher. … Only flashes the lateral quickness to evade blockers. … Tackled with his head down too often in 2007, leading to some missed tackles and, more important, putting his spinal cord at risk. Follett missed nearly three games in 2007 due to a neck stinger.
We can see that Zack has many of the attributes that the coaches prize in our profile. He needs to improve his pass coverage and ability to read the play as we have also seen from his play for the Lions.
I feel that our impressions about Zack have been thrown off a bit by how events have unfolded. His position in the draft seems to indicate that Zack was an insurance policy for Deandre Levy. At the time he was selected, the Lions needed linebackers to play in the middle. His aggressiveness on the ball carrier and willingness to bring the big hit fit well with playing middle linebacker for the Lions. In fact, he is so aggressive in his hits that he earned the nickname "Pain Train" from the Lions fans and made him a favorite.
Zack was pressed into service as an outside linebacker with the Lions because they simply didn't have anybody better to fill the role after Jordan Dizon went down to an injury. During his time in the starting lineup Zack showed his scouting reports were fairly accurate. He was showing steady improvement to his game before his injury.
Because of Zack's neck injury it is difficult to tell what his future will be with the Lions. The coaches would be wise to be cautious with Follett and bring him along slowly. Zack could even spend 2011 on injured reserve. He could also start the season on the physically unable to perform(PUP) list, which would put him out of the first six games of the regular season.
Even if Zack starts the season on the 53-man roster he will probably be a backup with special teams duties. His future with the Lions seems to be as a depth player in the long term but you can't ever count out guys like Zack. Their drive and work ethic sometimes allows them to succeed far past what their talent might dictate.
Doug Hogue
Doug Hogue was selected in the fifth round of the 2011 NFL Draft with pick #157 overall pick. He was measured at 6'2" and 235 lbs at the 2011 NFL Combine, where he was timed at 4.62 seconds in the 40 yard dash. Once again, Hogue fits right into the physical profile that the Lions have used to select linebackers in the draft.
Sports Illustrated
Positives: Athletic linebacker who displays tremendous skill in space. Shows good awareness and instincts to quickly locate the ball. Gets depth on pass drops, displays outstanding skill in coverage, and constantly around the ball. Very aggressive and productive in his all-around game. Fluid pedaling in reverse and smooth opening his hips in transition. Stays with tight ends or running backs down the field, plays with explosiveness, and moves quickly in every direction. Immediately alters his angle of attack and loses no momentum. Breaks down well and uses his hands to protect himself.
Negatives: Lacks bulk and easily controlled at the point of attack. Gives effort defending the run but not stout at the point.
CBS Sports
Strengths: Works best in space and to the sideline, scraping to chase down backs before they get the corner. Has a strong safety build and is smooth in coverage of running backs and tight ends from the strong-side position. Gets his hands on a lot of passes by staying home. Good recovery speed when beat on play-action or misdirection. Used regularly on run and pass blitzes, can catch running backs from behind from the backside or wiggle through creases to track down quarterbacks in the pocket. Defeats cut blocks on the run.
Weaknesses: Lacks strength at the point of attack, losing leverage battles against fullbacks and tight ends and winds up on the ground too often. High-cut defender doesn't always break down easily in space. Ballcarriers can stiff-arm him easily. Does not beat blocks to reach the quarterback when blitzing. Has fair hands but dropped potential interceptions. Had arthroscopic surgery on right MCL/meniscus after an injury in the 2010 spring game.
Doug Hogue also checks a lot of the boxes on the Lions profile for linebackers. In a way, Hogue is the yin to Zack Follet's yang, since he is stronger in pass coverage than in defending the run. His speed and agility allow him to cover large areas of the field. Doug also needs to improve his read and react skills.
From the Coaches Mouth
Our data concerning the profile that the Lions use when selecting a linebacker was further verified by Lions Linebacker coach, Matt Burke in this statement about Doug Hogue...
"The biggest thing about Doug is that he fits our profile: size, weight, speed and all that stuff. He’s a really athletic kid and he’s only played linebacker for two years, he was a running back when he went to Syracuse, so we felt that transition… he’s still a little bit raw, but that profile is exactly what we look for at that position and we feel that he can develop into a player for us. He’s over 6-2, he’s 235 and he can move. He plays in space a lot, he’s walked in the slot, he covers ground, he can cover running backs and does all the sort of things that we look for in that position." Matt Burke – Detroit Lions Linebacker Coach
Jim Schwartz had this to say about selecting Hogue...
"No, not really. We were still sitting on the board as we looked. We had a group of about two or three guys that we talked about and he was the guy that made the most sense for us. He matched the profile that we were looking for; had the skill set that we were looking for; had some plays on tape that we were looking for. We’d done a lot of work with this player and I think the opportunity matched up with his availability." Jim Schwartz – Detroit Lions Head Coach
Between the characteristics of the draft picks and the statements by Schwartz and Burke, I think we have enough verification to be confident that our assumptions about the profile for linebackers is accurate. We are not likely to find many linebackers that fit the profile exactly, but we can be reasonably sure that players that hit more of the check-marks will be favorites for the Lions to acquire.
We Can Learn From Our Mistakes Too
When we look at the three draft picks the Lions have spent on linebackers, we gain insight into the type of player that the Lions want. The next step is to apply what we know against the linebackers that have been cut in order to see where they fit into the profile.
Jordan Dizon is 6'0" and 232 lbs so he is at the lower margin of the Lions physical profile for a linebacker. This probably contributed to the decision by the Lions to give up on Dizon and release him. His small size and injury history do not breed confidence that he will every be healthy in the NFL. If Dizon were able to stay healthy he would have otherwise fit the profile for a linebacker with the Lions.
Larry Foote is 6'1" and 238 lbs, but his 4.83 second time in the 40 yard dash is a bit slow for the Lions profile. Foote's inability to defend the pass forced the Lions to substitute for him in passing situations. That is likely the largest reason that Foote was not offered a new contract with Detroit. He was a one year stopgap that just didn't fit the Lions profile for their system. This move is a clear indication that the Lions will insist on linebackers that can defend the pass.
Julian Peterson is 6'3" and 245 lbs. He ran the 40 yard dash in 4.57 seconds at some point, but he was not playing near that speed for the Lions. Peterson had become a player that was just collecting a paycheck. His repeated mistakes were often critical in turning close games into losses for the Lions. He fit the Lions profile well, but did not play to his potential.
Ernie Sims is a bit small for the Lions profile at 5'11" and 231 lbs though his 4.50 time in the 40 yard dash indicates excellent speed. The problem is that Ernie did not use his speed and aggression effectively. He consistently overran plays and shot into the wrong gap. He took himself out of plays as often as the opposition did. Between his small size and questionable ability to make proper reads the Lions decided to trade him away for Tony Schefller.
When looking at the players that the Lions have rejected as linebackers we can see that Larry Foote is the only player that was probably rejected based solely on being a square peg in a round hole. Dizon, Peterson, and Sims could have been successful in Detroit but failed because of various problems that limited their ability to make an impact on the field.
Are we there yet?
When we apply our profile to the players that are currently on the roster we can see where the Lions currently are sitting in their quest to create a linebacker corps that will help them win games. There are a couple of notable exceptions to the profile that we have arrived upon that were on the roster for 2010.
Isaiah Ekejiuba fits the size criteria at 6'4" and 240 lbs. If anything he may be a bit tall. His problems are more about his speed. Isaiah clocks a 4.82 in the 40 yard dash and it shows in his pass coverage skills. While Isaiah makes excellent contributions on special teams, he will be deep on the depth chart at middle linebacker. Other linebackers are very capable on special teams, so at some point the Lions will decide that Isaiah no longer fits on the roster. Being a Pro Bowl alternate is nice for the fans, but playing special teams alone is not enough to keep a roster spot.
I also mentioned in part one that Landon Johnson is likely to be replaced with a free agent as well. So we are back to where we started having Levy in the middle with Carpenter and Palmer on the outside as starters. Zack Follett will be in the mix if he is physically capable of playing. Doug Hogue will get a chance to develop on the roster because the Lions spent a draft pick on him. Caleb Campbell will fight for a roster spot but may end up back on the practice squad. Isaiah Ekejuiba is likely to be the odd man out if Follett can play special teams and the Lions sign a free agent linebacker.
In the third and final installment of this series we will put all of this information together to discuss which players the Lions should target in free agency to fit their system and profile.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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Dizon hasn't been officially released.
At least not according to the roster at detroitlions.com. And i really hope they don’t release him. the injury in preseason destroyed his chances to show he can play at the NFL level and i believe he would have made a impressive contribution to this team if he hadn’t gotten injured. I’m really pulling for Dizon and hope he stays a Lion.
No, he hasn't
However, Martin Mayhew has signaled that he is going to be released because he cannot stay healthy and the Lions need to move on to get players that can be more reliable. I think Dizon could potentially be a good player for the Lions, but he has been in the league for several years now and he has hardly gotten into games. Potential only counts if you can reach it. At this point Dizon should be approaching the peak of his career, yet if he stays on the roster the Lions would have to still consider him a development project.
unfortunate time for an injury
he was gonna start for Levy if I’m not mistaken. But i do see why the FO would want to move on from Dizon. I just hope they dont.
Good read Tuff.
Any chance that after the third installment you’ll be doing a Tuff Look at the Lions Defensive Backs?
It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.
"Only a real man quotes himself in the 3rd person" - Nate D. circa 2011
Thanks man.
I’ve enjoyed your columns thus far, and since you stressed the importance of the safeties role in the defensive schemes I look forward to your break down of those positions.
It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.
"Only a real man quotes himself in the 3rd person" - Nate D. circa 2011
Excellent read
I would have loved to see Follett get a shot to improve and play in the middle. You just can’t teach ferocious, and he’s got it. A linebacker that rings bells would make the middle of our D even more intimidating than it already is. I like Levy, but I like him over the tight end, or in the Lions case LOLB. I hope Z makes it back and gets a chance to keep improving on the field. Great article!
Zach would have to improve his coverage and play recognition
We put Levy in deeper zones at times because we like our MLB to be a 3 down player. I don’t really see Zach as the QB of the defense…but I understand how he’d be good in run support from the middle…
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
What's most encouraging in this is
As we continue to analyze the pieces that make up the team under the assumption that it is part of a master plan, it gives us the tools to wade less blindly through free agency and, of course, the draft next year.
Many of us had a vague idea of what we were going to do in the draft but were inevitably blind-sided by the choices made. It will be a good thing next year to really be able to go into the draft and understand, at least somewhat, the system we’re operating under. It’s a very welcome change.
Good read as usual Tuff.
by Mavyrk on May 6, 2011 5:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
absolutley
I think that’s one of the biggest lessons from this past draft – I know Tuff and I certainly saw it: To understand the FOs moves, we MUST understand what they value by way of player profiles and schematic importance (how the DT plays a much bigger value role in our system than most…).
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
Very good analysis TL. Recked you.
You could apply this profile to some of the Linebackers that the Lions passed on, or did not make a move on, over the last few years.
Laurinaitis – 4.82 40 and pretty much a MLB only. Although he did fit the size and was incredibly productive in college and now in the NFL.
Rey Mau – 4.88 40 and again, only a MLB prospect.
Akeem Ayers – 4.88 40, although he is the kind of versatile athlete with great size that would be ideal for the Lions. If he were faster and more dedicated to football I am guessing he would have gone in the middle of the first round or so.
Bruce Carter – estimated 40 time of 4.60 [don’t ask me where Walter gets that from]. I think that he fit the profile very well and if he had fallen to # 44, may have been the selection. We will never know.
Koa Misi – 4.75 40. Supposedly Gunther said that they had their eye on him and would have taken him in the third round(?) if he had fallen there. He fits the size profile but that is about it. The Dolphins took him at # 40 to play in the 3-4 OLB position. This one I don’t get. I really don’t think we would have taken him. But that is only my opinion.
Mason Foster – 4.75 40. Fits the size profile, but maybe was not athletic enough for the Lions. Had the versatility they wanted. I liked him.
Daryl Washington [now with the Cardinals] – 4.58 40, played inside in college although seemed better suited to the outside. 6’ 1and 3/4" at 230 pounds. He was taken in the middle of the second round. This was the guy I thought Gunther was high on as they coached him in the Senior Bowl and Daryl was outstanding. I thought he was a great fit for the Lions. He looks damn good for Arizona.
It will be interesting to see if there are any FAs that fit this mold. Next comment.
"I read one article, I said, 'This guy doesn't know what he's talking about,' " Mayhew said. "Then I read another one, and I thought, 'Wait a minute, they're all saying the same thing.' -Martin Mayhew 2011 regarding Draft Gurus.
I don't want to give the impression that the Lions only draft LBs by 40 times.
I am sure they look at their tape and see if the guy plays to whatever speed he runs.
"I read one article, I said, 'This guy doesn't know what he's talking about,' " Mayhew said. "Then I read another one, and I thought, 'Wait a minute, they're all saying the same thing.' -Martin Mayhew 2011 regarding Draft Gurus.
I agree
The quotes by Schwartz and Burke indicate that the Lions look more at how the player covers the field than relying on a pure 40 yd dash time. A player with exceptional recognition can take half a second of his time to meet the ball carrier and actually get there faster than a guy with more speed. It is not so much about pure speed as playing speed.
The problem we have as amateur evaluators is that we will have a lot more difficulty getting the tape we need to properly evaluate players. That assumes also that we even know what to look for in the tape. So I decided to use the 40 yd dash times as an indicator. I feel that 10 and 20 yard splits are more important than the actual 40 time would be. The ten yard split will give a bit of an indication of quickness and the 20 yard slit will have some relevance in ability to play from sideline to sideline.
Sometimes I really wish I had the resources available that the pro scouts have, but that is just a pipe dream. If I did I probably wouldn’t ever get anything else done either.
Here is another quote from Schwartz that emphasizes the Lions' strategy.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
LINK: http://www.detroitlions.com/news/article-1/Lions-Pleased-with-Strength-of-2011-Draft-Class/93c14881-2a3e-40d7-845c-86d6c00cc918
From the organization’s perspective, the Lions would prefer to take a player who fits exactly what they’re looking for at an already-strong position than reach for a player at a position of need.
I hope we remember all this for the next draft.
"I read one article, I said, 'This guy doesn't know what he's talking about,' " Mayhew said. "Then I read another one, and I thought, 'Wait a minute, they're all saying the same thing.' -Martin Mayhew 2011 regarding Draft Gurus.
I was considering including the draft picks we have passed on
But I decided that I don’t really know why we passed on them. Given the way the Lions place value on players for their draft board we are not sure if the Lions didn’t want a guy like Mason Foster, or if they just picked somebody they wanted more. Since the article was already getting long I decided to forego that part of the equation.
good decision
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
Thanks Tuff
Good stuff. There is one element kind of frustrating me in this profile…it’s knowing how much they prefer pass coverage vs run stuffing skills.
I know both are vitally important, but look at Levy and Follett. I’d say coming out, they were both a little better at being *aggressive against the run. That is something that stands out. I know they highly value Levy’s coverage – thus them also liking Carpenter a lot late last season and why they got rid of Foote (for lack of coverage).
It’s bugging me because of our scheme: some are saying that with our Dline, we only need average LBs (like the CB argument), but I disagree with that because of how often a guard will come up to block a LB in our system (because we have the DTs penetrate a particular gap right off the snap). Those guards might come out to block the MLB, but usually it’s going to be one of the OLBs because their trying to run in the A gap…it was those situations where we had trouble last year and guys like Landon and Carpenter got washed out of the play…
When Schwartz took the reigns he said he wanted to run the ball and stop the run. He also said as a philosophy, he wanted us to get bigger and stronger (though I know he said speed is very, very important as well). As was said, since Schwartz likes having the LBs play more often than anyone else, both run & pass are extremely important.
For the sake of FA and trades though, you can’t always have your cake and eat it too… you have to decide what qualities are most important. Would they error on 1. a guy who meets our profile, is very good against the run, and while he can cover, maybe has some limitations sticking to his man or reading zone (but has the physical ability/speed to do it) or 2. a guy who struggles to disengage from blockers and be strong against the point of attack but meets the profile and is very good in coverage? I would say Levy probably is better described by the 1st type, while Carpenter is better described by the 2nd.
Ideally, we can get Manny Lawson and call it a day for one of the starting OLB spot as he excels in both run and coverage…but the other guys available seem to be better at one than the other. I like Carpenter (and guys like him) a lot, but I feel as long as we have those types, we will give up too much yards on the ground through the A gaps – and that became a chronic problem for us last year (see the Giants game for one of the better examples of this).
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
I looked at this as well.
I decided that it would be better to leave that part of the analysis out of the original article and wait to discuss it in the comments. I am learning that if I am too through in the article and leave nothing to talk about in the comments that my articles drop down the page pretty quickly. In an effort to make my articles a bit more compelling I am purposely leaving some of the discussion out for later.
One of the things that I have noted about the Schwartz defense is that everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING starts at the defensive line on defense. I think the addition of Nick Fairley will do wonders for the Lions against the run. He is just so good at shooting gaps and getting into the backfield that I do not think the opposing offensive line will be able to easily pull guards or slip them to the second level any more. His ability to pursue the play will force a lot of very bad choices on the opposition in how they will block the Lions this coming season.
Maybe I am overstating how much impact Fairley will have on the run, but I don’t think so. Thoise big guards will not matter when they rub out an OLB because the running back is not going to make it to the second level past Suh and Fairley. I think the play of both of them will demand that the opposition doubles both of them and the linebackers will be running free, or playing off blocks from tight ends and running backs instead. The match-ups will be a lot more in the Lions favor on defense.
With that said, the Lions also need to get the linebackers to use their mobility and hand play much better to get off blocks. Thankfully, that is something that can be coached up.
That's interesting about the effect on pulling guards
I guess if I was an offensive coordinator, I would have Suh and Fariley doubled in the run game. Fairley can actually be neutralized when doubled like that…hopefully that is the case because then the speed we require of LBs really comes into play in tracking the RB…
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
I'm hoping
that with a good strength and conditioning program, as well as refining his technique that Fairly will be able still wreak havoc even in a double team. If I was an offensive coordinator, I would double team one DT and run away from the other, hoping they get lost in traffic, I certainly wouldn’t run straight at them. I would make a terrible offensive coordinator though. Speaking of, here’s to hoping Martz gets his extension and keeps cutler on those 7 step drops. Good luck Carimi.
It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.
"Only a real man quotes himself in the 3rd person" - Nate D. circa 2011
Fairley was very good at splitting double teams in college.
I am interested in seeing how he can do it in the NFL. If his game translates as well to the pros as Suh’s did, we will have a very disruptive defensive line. I am anticipating great things from the defensive line. The season better not get messed up with this labor mess or I am going to be VERY irate.
It seemed to me that Fairley beat double teams in college
mainly due to his hands and quickness. If they put a decent C and G on him and he can’t get a step on them from the start, I believe he will be neutralized until he gains more strength and learns to anticipate when those kinds of things will happen and how Suh will react in those situations…just something I think will have to be worked out in time.
Leonuro: about running away from the DT who’s single blocked, that’s what they did to C WIll last year (and I’m sure will continue to). That’s what we need to do a better job of: making sure the RB can’t easily run away from the penetrating DT…
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
100% agree Tuff.
As I said below, other then speed and sure tackling, nothing special or extraordinary is required out of the LB’s. Their not really expected to blitz, just fill gaps and cover the underneath routes.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
by delusional on May 6, 2011 11:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Makes a lot of sense
There were a lot of undersized LBs in this draft, good ones but they were short.
COP:"Do you know why I pulled you over Mr. Dunn ?" ME:" Was I speeding officer?" COP:"A lil bit, but I really wanted to see a SORRY ASS DETROIT LIONS FAN UP CLOSE!" He gave me a ticket for 50 in a 45 zone. So I ask him his team. COP: DA BEARS HAHAAHAHAA
Sean, Please promote this fan post to the front page.
"But the point is, finger-pointing is just what sports fans do when something doesn't go right." -- Kurt Mensching
by RealityIsOptionable on May 6, 2011 9:12 PM EDT reply actions
manny lawson
at 6-5 240 with a 4.4 40 yard dash, he fits the lions profile, just taller, which isn’t bad
Wow....that's a great F-en write-up.
I can picture in my head quite clearly what Schwartz is trying to do with this D, the Line and the drafting of Fairley, how the safeties have run responsibilities, and all the possibilties available with what their doing with personnel. But all I can picture for the LB’ers is being able to cover the flats and having some serious, serious speed.
I just can’t picture anything exotic needed out of the LB’ers except short route coverage with speed and sure tackling. This write up helps in clarifying my thinking.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
by delusional on May 6, 2011 11:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
So in your estimation
The biggest requirement is upfront, particularly with the interior rush. If that’s settled that helps set the stage for the back end. The CBs play a similar rolse as in a tradtional 4-3, the LBs need to be fast and good tacklers so as to be efficient in underneath coverage and pursuit of ball carriers. The safeties however have more stress on them to be multidimensional (fast with man cover skills but also very good tacklers able to clean up in run support). Therefore, it requires elite athletes up front and on the back end, with good, but nothing spectacular or out of the norm from other NFL defenses for CBs and LBs….am I reading into your comments correctly?
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
I also ahve wondered if the coach stresses speed so much partially
because he likes them to line up closer to the middle (behind the DTs as opposed to behind the DEs in a traditional 4-3) since our scheme attempts to funnel the run inside. However, coverage scheme dictates the OLBs cover the flats and sometimes the TE or RB in man – therefore to be able to read the run from an inside position and react to a pass play all the out in the flats require serious speed…hmmm
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
With the D-line stunting their occasionally going to get burned.
LB’s playing a middle gap control D in obvious run situations is very important. Yet have the speed to cover the flats and tackle in space.
DL,CC, Carpenter, and the new dude fit the bill.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
by delusional on May 7, 2011 12:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's how I'm seeing it.
IMO, the way they have focused on building that dominate line, they plan to bring it every play, run or passing situations, good tackling LB’ers with speed will be the critical feature of that group.
I wanted Von Miller bad, but really with the drafting of Fairley, good athletes is what’s required, not superstars, though it helps of course.
I should clarify. I mean sure tackling LB’ers in space.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
by delusional on May 7, 2011 12:25 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Awesome Write Up
I’m excited to read the your upcoming cornerback article. This explains a lot and I understand why we didn’t address this position this year. I think as our team continues to improve the picks will start getting used in the back 7. This last draft was extremely weak at linebacker. I’m not surprised it wasn’t addressed until later in the draft. Hopefully we can get one free agent to help make this position stronger. Anyone have any ideas if next years linebackers will be any better than in this past draft? I think Travis Lewis is worth looking at.
From what I'm reading...
This is obviously extremely early but the OLB class is pretty weak for 2012. It looks like the early favorites are Travis Lewis and Zach Brown out of North Carolina. There are others throughout that show up on various mocks and big boards but those two seem the consensus top two on most.
The good news for Lions Fans is that next year is shaping up to be a banner year for Cornerbacks. It looks like there could be as many as 5 taken in the first round. Cliff Harris (Oregon), Dre Kirkpatrick (Alabama), Alfonzo Dennard (Nebraska), Greg Reid (Florida State), and Chase Minnifield (Virginia) have all been showing up on most mocks as having a first round grade.
This could be one of the reasons Mayhew and company didn’t pull the trigger on the Peterson deal and felt no need to reach on Amukamara or Jimmy Smith. Just a thought.
Good stuff, definitely a home run of a post
I completely agree with pretty much everything you said. I would like to add a few key points regarding the Schwartz / Cunningham scheme that I feel are relevant to the line backer corps.
The first thing to note is that Gunny will occasionally blitz like a madman. We have all heard about his game against Michael Vick where he ran something like 80 blitzes against him back in KC. There was one week where gunny added in 25 blitz packages in preparation for a game plan against a specific opponent.
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2009/10/lions_will_be_blitz_happy_agai.html
Granted this stuff is a bit dated, but it speaks specifically as to what exactly they wanted from Julian Peterson. They wanted him to be able to blitz and cover. He failed miserably in coverage. But I also think it speaks to why they are high on Levy and Follett. Both of them are decent on the blitz. Right now I think they have hopes of developing that in with Palmer and Carpenter.
I agree that the majority of our pass coverage for line backers will be zone. But I have also seen the Lions run some Tampa 2 with our MLB shooting deep into a zone and even covering a tight end down the field on a seam or post route, I am talking like 20-30 yards down field, luckily they have safety help that deep but it does happen sometimes. I am talking like 5% here so it is pretty rare.
The thing I see a lot though is for our outside backers to cover running backs on deep wheel routes. This is the one that Julian Peterson failed so miserably at. It was apparent in the first game of the year in Chicago and several other times later in the year. So while I see us in short zone for 80% of our coverage, those 20% or so of the time that our backers are in man, they are in DEEP man. Big explosion play type of situations. So our backers do get left on an island sometimes against tight ends and running backs.
If anything I think this just emphasis your point about coverage even more. It is the number one thing we MUST have in our line backers. The ability to play in space.
In some ways, I think the Lions want super line backers, that can do everything. Some times I wonder if our scheme puts too much stress on that position. Having to have a guy who can take on a guard one on one because the defensive line is focused on the pass rush, but also athletic enough to cover tight ends and running backs is a tall order. The worst part about it, is those two stress points that our defense puts our backers in, one on one in the run game versus a guard and running back, and one on one in the passing game versus a tight end or running back, tend to result in explosion plays when we lose the match up.
Obviously Gunny and Schwartz are the pros and I am just an average Joe, but if it was up to me I would change our scheme some. I know that they don’t like to have moving parts on our defense but at some point you have to acknowledge that you have a limited tool set to work with.
It seems a bit counter intuitive to me, to be drafting players that are round pegs for round holes, when on the field we seem to ask them to play in a square hole. For instance lets take a look at Zack Follett. Every team in the league knows he was a 3-4 rush LB in college. Every coach in the league knows the weakest part of his game is pass coverage. The same was obviously true of Julian Peterson last year.
The simple answer I have come up with is this. You can not run on crutches. I believe, that our coaches are of a mind to throw them guys into the deep end and let them sink or swim. Because eventually they will find enough swimmers to not be thrown into the deep end anymore. While it may frustrate some armchair quarterbacks on Sundays, keep in mind that this is part of what is hinted at when the Lions brass speaks of bigger pictures and building for the long term.
They are willing to lose a game in order to find out who can hold their own out there on the field. They are willing to let a player fail, because by compensating for a players weakness by changing the defensive scheme not only takes away a players chance to succeed, but it also handicaps the defense in other ways.
For every player that you change the scheme to compensate for, you develop a weakness elsewhere in the defense. This just leaves you chasing waterfalls, continually running around with the bucket trying to put out the next fire. And then what happens when a player is injured, traded, or retires? Then you have to change the defense again?
There is no question that the Lions are going the right way about it. They have a master plan, a defensive scheme, and they are looking for the round pegs. But the truth is that there is no round pegs, nor no round holes.
The NFL is so scheme diverse, the situations from play to play, game to game, year to year, change so much that you cannot really look at it in the simple terms that we all would like to put things into. Ultimately the Lions are not really looking for pegs at all. They are looking for clay. The kind of players who are multidimensional. The kind of players who have strengths, who can also develop other strengths. Who can do whatever it takes from snap to snap, Sunday to Sunday, to win.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
One thing. Gun talks more blitz shit then he actually calls for during a game, I think he likes to portray himself as the mad blitzer to throw opponents off..
And while I have nothing scientific, I bet Speivey blitzed more the Levy. That said, it then leads to what your alluded to Smurfer, Our linebackers need to play in space, and at time cover deep, and that’s where the speed,speed,speed comes into play. Our LB’ers in this scheme need better tackle in space skills then blitz skills.
Some year in the draft they’ll finally fine tune what they desire in a LB’er, and come across a high draft pick that fits a well defined role and pull the trigger.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Delmas had more QB pressures than Levy
My take on the lack of LB blitzing is that our back four is the weakest link to the defense. So Gun had the LB’s in more coverage to help the DB’s. That might change alittle with a healthy Delmas and Spievey, who only got better every week, patrolling the deep back.
This is the Motor City. And this is what we do...
And God sayeth onto Abraham. "Goeth and spread my word of the P.C.P. and all will well with your people."
I have to agree, I think he liked to blitz Spievey because of this, if your going to blitz a guy, why not blitz your weakest coverage guy
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Interesting points
I really like that last though about trying to find clay, that really hits the mark and I hadn’t really thought of it that way!
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
You make a lot of good points.
I feel the Lions definitely put each player on the firing line to be responsible for their own game. I haven’t seen any indications at all that Schwartz or Gunny will spend any time trying to put band-aids on the weaknesses of a player by altering the defense to compensate. I feel that sink or swim is exactly how they approach player performance. Since the Lions have so many young players it is easy to see instances where players are expected to raise their game in order to fit the system. The entire experience of Zack Follett with the Lions is a testament to that approach.
I think that Gunny probably would blitz more if he wasn’t being held in check a bit by Jim Schwartz. The philosophy of Schwartz seems to be that you do not fire your guns just because they are loaded. You save the bullet for when there is a reason to fire it. Here are some Schwartz quotes to point out my thoughts on this…
"It’s week to week. If that’s what we think that we need to do to beat them, that’s what we’ll do. It’s not, ‘Hey, we’re bringing the blitz 50 times a game regardless of who we’re playing.’ Every week’s going to be different."
In 2009 we had to blitz to get pressure on the quarterback. I don’t know where we were, I think we had about 26.0 sacks last year, we had 44.0 this year. We obviously took a big jump there. Our blitz percentage went way down and as a result we didn’t give up as many big plays. We still, early in the year, gave up more big plays than we did at the end, but you look at this last game, our ability to shut Adrian Peterson down, our ability to stop their passing game and things like that. A lot of it had to do with (the fact) that we blitzed on our terms rather than having to blitz to get pressure. I think that’s on the defensive line and Kris Kocurek and the progress that they’ve all made there.
I think a lot of the blitz talk is just to make teams worry about it. If Schwartz and Gunny feel that using the blitz is good strategy they will actually use it.
The biggest point that I can make about both players and scheme is that flexibility is demanded. The Lions coaches are not willing to sacrifice flexibility in any way. If the player proves they are not able to meet the multitude of demands that are placed on them, they get replaced eventually.
Not criticizing, just trying to square what you posted last week about the round peg, square hole theory...and
Schwartz and Mayhew wanting specific players for a perfect fit for a specific task, players only….Are you sure their really looking flexibility? or flexibility until they fill out the roster, and then starts the role specific player search? Sort of like what they’ve done on O because the O is further along in it’s revamping.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
My statement about flexibility is in a general sense
It is not just about linebackers, it is about everything the Lions are trying to do on both sides of the ball. Look at how we drafted for offense this year. We took a receiver, then followed up with a running back. The offense is expected to be able to both run and pass the ball with authority.
My point about flexibility squares up with the linebackers as well. They are expected to be able to cover passes as well as stuff runs. The Lions do not want any two down linebackers and that was illustrated clearly when the Lions did not bring back Larry Foote. They want guys that can play any linebackers position if called for. They do not flip strong and weak side linebackers, they expect their players to be flexible enough to play either role, and to switch up on the fly based on the offensive alignment.
I guess what I am saying is that the profile that we have seen emerge for the linebackers is a product of the demand for flexibility. The coaches want to be able to operate without shuffling around a lot of personnel packages. They expect the guys that play the base defense and offense to be flexible enough to do what is asked of them without tipping their hand by bringing in specialists. The ability to disguise what they are doing and keep the other team off balance is a big part of the Lions game plan every week.
This is an interesting thread....I love topics on defense and strategy.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
I see this same element on the offense
trying to have players where we can use formations that don’t tip the hat (2 TEs. Pistol. Ace w 3wrs…). I think that was also an element in why we wanted LeShoure over some of the later round guys – he’s a runner who is good on draws, can break decent gains, is a receiving threat and can pick up the blitz (therefore not being just a short yardage specialist).
With Fairley, not only do we get to keep our big men fresh but also use him and the others creatively on occasion to mix it up.
“Dynamic” “Hybrid” “Flexibility” all seem to be the themes…
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
But, but, but,,,,,,
Where’s the flexibility on O?
"Dynamic" "Hybrid" "Flexibility"
?????
That’s what I was saying a few posts up……Do we have 2 different theories on drafting players? Tight defined roles on O, and all of this "Dynamic" "Hybrid" "Flexibility" on D? Or will that change once the talent upgrades to a certain point?
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
All of the offensive players are quite versatile
When healthy, Best can run and catch.
LeShoure can run and catch and block.
Pettigrew can go deep, sit in the zone, or stay in and block.
Sheffler can play against the tackle or in the slot.
Burleson can play outside or in the slot.
Ditto for Young.
There’s versatility all over. When Best or Leshoure or Pettigrew is in, you don’t know if it’s pass or run. Young is a threat to go deep, catch a screen, or run a reverse. Same with Burleson. CJ can do whatever the hell he wants. There aren’t many one trick ponies on this offense.
I would say that the flexibility on offense is the ability to utilize guys in more ways than one
Linehan is well known to like backs that can catch out of the backfield and pass protect. You see this with the Pecking order of the Lions backfield. Best and Smith were given the lead dog roles because they could do everything. Pass protect, run inside or out, catch passes, and pass protect. Then you had the 2nd tier guy with Mo Morris. He is more adept at running and pass protecting, and while not horrible in catching passes, he is no Best or Smith. Then you have the project guys like Aaron Brown and Jerome Felton, whom are in serious danger of being replaced this year. Neither one has worked out to have the on field skill set that was hoped for. While Smith is out of the Mix, Leshoure can step right in to his role. Felton and Brown will be pushed hard this year by Stefan Logan as he showed a lot more on the field than they did last year.
I could go on with other positional groups. While each player has a strength, there is secondary skills there that make them appealing. Lets look at tight ends for example. Pettigrew our best run blocker, but he also is decent in pass blocking, and receiving. Scheffler is our best receiver but he is able to seal the edge and positional block well enough to not be a huge liability in the running game. Heller is our best pass blocker, but he is also decent in run blocking and highly under rated as a receiver.
I think you get the point, while we our guys may have a “specialty” in certain positional groups, as a unit they are extremely diverse, and as a player they are also more diverse than their stereotypical labels would suggest.
The Idea is to get your personnel where you don’t have to drastically change your play calling based on who is in the game. With running backs the Lions can only achieve this with their top two guys. Once you hit the 3rd string running back you have to alter the play calling based on their skill set. But that is true of just about any team, if not all of them.
With the tight ends you can pretty much achieve the same versatility, because any two of them on the field provides you with the ability to call what ever play you need. No matter what you have a good blocker and good receiver between the two of them. So be it pass or run play, any two of our tight ends can field the play book without limitations.
So when you look at it. Sometimes you look at the players skill set, sometimes you look at the units skill set.
The Lions do not need every line backer to be able to blitz, because even just two on the field who can will keep the offense off balance. They just cannot be one dimensional in that regard. Add in the fact that Delmas, Spievey, and Phonz can blitz from the secondary and wee have enough blitzers to keep them on edge.
Right now in our line backers we have Levy and Follett who have proven blitz skills. I am sure the Lions are in the process of developing them skills on guys like Carpenter right now to provide more on field flexibility.
But every line backer we have MUST be able to cover and play the run. That is the core skills set needed. While not every backer needs to be a blitz threat, none of them can be a liability in their basic functions and defensive scheme responsibilities.
The Lions do need one more blitz backer. But the reason why is not because they want to blitz more. It is because they want to be able to blitz more if they decide to.
For instance say we get Carpenter up to speed on bltizing. Now we could field a lineup of Follett, Levy, and Carpenter against a rookie QB or a traditionally weak against the blitz QB. So while these guys might not always be our first string line backers, you might see them more often, and Ashleee Palmer less often, in a game against a Christian Ponder, Cam Newton, Marc Bulger, or David Carr. All QBs who either are inexperienced, or are proven to be shell shocked and have happy feet.
This is all theory, but I think that is what the Lions want. To have unit versatility without liability.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Makes a lot of sense
We those pieces in place on O, now it’s about getting a couple more on D.
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
+1 Rames
Smurfer, if your correct about this staff squeezing and expanding Carpenter’s skill set after he’s been regarded as a washed up failure at the age of 24 or 25, that would completely reaffirm my love for this coaching staff and it’s ability the “coach up” and improve players.
Come to think of it, with that line getting so much attention from opposing teams, that should leave some serious opportunities for back 7 blitz packages. And Carpenter has the speed to get home.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Its the old rope a dope, and mental repetitions becoming reinforced with physical action
Kind of like how a lineman will use one move on the outside rush many times, only to set up an inside rush move for later when it is really needed. You get that big tackle cheating outside, ready for your speed rush, then you just blow right through on a bull move in a critical situation.
Similar things on offense and defense. You go through reps to mentally train an opponent to expect one thing when you are finally ready to deliver that big blow. It happens all over a football field on every level, from player to player, and coach to coach, scheme to scheme.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
I believe Carpenter's issues were 85% mental anyway.
1st round draft pressure, drafted into a different system, good looking guy probably was being pushed to become the face of the franchise or at least ticket sales, fans turn on him quick, he loses confidence, and it all just starts to spiral downhill by being traded and then traded again.
Really it was the same with Phonz. These guys obviously have the physical tools, but weren’t capable of handling the initial NFL pressures. If Gunther is good at one thing, it’s blowing smoke up a players ass after beating him up initially to get a player to perform. Looks what he’s done for Avril with his father to son chats. Avril is going to have a break out season this coming year.
These guys will go through a wall for him. Look at Walton and Kocuriec on the sidelines going f-en bananas. Player love that shit and will perform for it. I believe what we seen from Carpenter late last season is just the tip of the iceberg. if he was just playing for a contract and turns back into a stiff he deserves to never see an NFL field again, because he has a real shot here.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Hey Smurfer......Merry Christmas.....I found this tidbit buried in a Peter King article regarding Asomugha..n
That last statement is absolutely right. Teams are very, very careful to not tip their hands on free agents, for fear of being wrist-slapped (or worse) by the league. I could see five teams with big wallets going after him: Philadelphia, Houston, Dallas, Detroit and the Jets —
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/05/10/mail/index.html#ixzz1LyaunDj0
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Yay! LoL I have hopes
I really feel like he is one of the final pieces if not THE final piece to put us over the top and right there with the Pack as a division and perennial playoff contender.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
It could happen.
None of those other teams could offer quite the same combination of incentives that Detroit can. Obviously the Dallas, New York, and Philly markets would be more high profile than Detroit, but in those cities he will be just one of the high priced stars. In Detroit he just has the best defensive line in football to help put pressure on the passer. That along with a very young and improving team could make him a rock star for the next five or six years.
If I was him I would be looking at our line, and the youth on it
Really the only one who needs to be replaced in the next 5 years is KVB. If he is smart he will be a Lion. That would be sweet, he would probably be the best corner we have had since Dick Lane. I don’t know if I could ever put anyone ahead of Lane. IMO he and Mel Blount were the best corners to ever play the game, because they actually changed the rules.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
I agree that Lane was the best, nut imagine...
Detroit had Lane, Dick LeBeau, Yale Lary, and Lem Barney in the secondary during the 1960s. All four are Hall of Famers. Along with Alex Karras rushing the passer, the Detroit defense scared the hell out of QBs back then. Of we could get Nnamdi to play here and shore up the linebackers, the Lions defense could be that scary again.
I've seen you....
make this statement before regarding N.A. and I kinds sorta thought you were on drugs. First for the money it will take to get him here, and for the fact that what corner could possibly be the final piece for a team.
But after this thread, and thinking about what we have, where the talent lies, IMO not needing a superstar at LB’er any longer, but our CB’s are going to be on an island to some extent, NA is exactly what we need to complete the puzzle. Along with one more FA LB’er. That should do it for this coming season at least.
I really feel like he is one of the final pieces if not THE final piece to put us over the top and right there with the Pack as a division and perennial playoff contender.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
That's a good point
you do get the feeling like Carpenter didn’t have the same pressure he did in Dallas and that he felt more comfortable here. Hopefully he keeps it up, knowing he has a real chance to start and we reap the benefits of 1st round talent matching will power and confidence…
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
Especially in Dallas, and the football circus that place has become.
You have an asshole egomaniac owner, and asshole football crazed fans that think the football world revolves around them. It’s a pressure cooker for a player to have massive expectations thrust on him and then not quite live up to them. It couldn’t possibly be Jerry’s fault for drafting a 1st rounder to play in a scheme he’s not suited for.
It was a smart move to pick him up.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
I couldn't agree more about Carp and Phonz!
I would also put Ugoh in the same mold as these guys. Granted, some of his problems were self inflicted. This all snowballed for him too and I think wasn’t able to work it out in Indy. Of those 3 he likely will have the hardest time making the 53, but that might just be the wake up call he needs.
Individuals should protect themselves. Governments can't protect individuals from themselves, it's just impossible, otherwise they become a tyranical state. -Ron Paul
And Lawrence Jackson.
I forgot about Ugoh…..He’s another perfect example of an athlete needing some mental massaging with no pressure to perform until he’s ready.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
I feel like that's a great way to understand Linehan's scheme
He seems to always be trying to set the D up for something to come later. People get frustrated and inpatient at times, but it’s interesting to have coaches who actually play chess instead of analyzing pad level…
""Dont get fairly, dont get fairly, dont get fairly PLEASE DON'T! PLEASE DETROIT! DONT get fairly.....................FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!" - T. Moore
Blitzing on our terms, that is the key phrase there
One thing I have noticed, is that pretty much every line backer we take will be a project in our scheme. College systems just don’t play the type of defense we do for the most part. Even Von Miller would have needed work on his coverage skills. I wish that them Cowgirls did not take Bruce Carter, because that would have been telling, if we would have passed on him. He was probably the closest thing to an ideal fit for us and it would have been real interesting to see if he or Titus was the pick.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
Like the write-up TL
Like the comment smurf wait…did you just quote a TLC song?
by Admiral Ackbar on May 7, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
LoL I was inspired by the movie "The Other Guys"
Can’t be havin no scrubs round here =D
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
+1 JC Spievey started to trust his instincts on the field better.
I find it remarkable that the kid made the transition so fast from a RB to CB in college, then move to a new postion in the NFL. And it showed at times.The best thing was that he limited CC Browns playing time.
COP:"Do you know why I pulled you over Mr. Dunn ?" ME:" Was I speeding officer?" COP:"A lil bit, but I really wanted to see a SORRY ASS DETROIT LIONS FAN UP CLOSE!" He gave me a ticket for 50 in a 45 zone. So I ask him his team. COP: DA BEARS HAHAAHAHAA
You can't teach a nose for the ball.
Spievey showed serious ball skills as the year went on and definetly a player. How good a player remains to be seen but a little more coaching up on the safety position and he’ll become a real asset.
Give me one more talented CB and a fast veteran LB’er and we’ll be one our way.
We don’t have a shot at him but NA from OAK would almost the final piece of the puzzle.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
by delusional on May 7, 2011 8:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

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