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Lions DEs: Of Philosophies, Schemes, and KVB


Before launching any discussion regarding Kyle Vanden Bosch’s stats, let’s get the KVB intangibles checklist out of the way:

Leadership? Check.

High Motor? Check.

Work Ethic? Check.

Courage? Check.

Coachable? Check.

Attitude? Check.

Character? Check.

Clean Fingernails? Check.

Star-divide

OK. Now that we’ve dispensed with KVB’s intangibles, lets move on to the Lions defensive line philosophy and D-line schemes.

Lions head coach Jim Schwartz’ vision of "what we like to do" came to light when he proclaimed "We will stop the run on the way to the QB." This philosophy is in contrast to those D-lines who "Read, and react" with the exception of designated pass rushing LBs, usually found in 3-4 defenses.

Finally in possession of the D-line talent in 2010 that allowed Schwartz, and defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham to fully implement their philosophy, they had to come up with schemes that would put their players "in the best position to be successful."

BBlades had it right in a Pride of Detroit thread. Primarily, the Lions use their DEs in one of two ways: They penetrate and seal one edge (usually the right), while rushing the QB from the other edge. The DE who seals the edge gets enough penetration that he can be "felt" by the QB. The rushing DE contains the QB with the intent of forcing him up into a pocket being collapsed by the DTs.

This scheme seems counterintuitive to standard NFL defensive doctrine. Isn’t the RDE the pass rushing, blind side stud in most defenses? Yes. But, how can you cast Vanden Bosch (or anyone else for that matter) in the role of Julius Peppers?

Schwartz and Cunningham needed to think outside the box, and come up with a scheme that put their defensive ends in a position to be successful.

When we see how Cunningham uses a mix of personnel to accomplish this "seal and rush" scheme, it brings the statistics into proper perspective.

So, which DEs do what within the framework of a seal and rush scheme? This is how I see the DE pairings:

Rush LDE (Avril, Jackson) and Seal RDE (KVB, McBride)

Seal LDE (McBride) and Rush RDE (Jackson, Avril)

The above pairings were extremely effective in Seal and Rush roles in 2010. This scheme was played in over 75% of Detroit’s defensive snaps. There are very few stunts, or loops used on a play to play basis. The few stunts used usually involved DT Corey Williams and Vanden Bosch.

Notice that KVB never plays LDE, while McBride has adapted to the "seal" role on either side. Now, I’m not saying that KVB can’t play LDE, but he would have to take a Berlitz course in left defensive endese and have his visa stamped.

Let’s get back to KVB’s 2010 stats. In fact, let’s take a look at Avril, Jackson, and McBride as well for some schematic perspective.

For you nit pickers, these are Pro Football Focus stats. PFF awards a whole sack for every player who participated in a half sack. Don’t like it? Well, that’s tough. Deal with it.

 

Snaps Played

KVB played 676 snaps.

McBride played 471 snaps.

Avril played 651 snaps.

Jackson played 337 snaps.

We can see a little statistical correlation in the Seal and Rush categories. KVB and McBride, the "seal" elements of the scheme played 1147 snaps between them, while Avril and Jackson played 988 snaps in the "rush" role. There were 78 snaps shared by "seal" DE Andre Fluellen (72) and "rush" DE Willie Young (6).

The disparity in snaps between the DEs playing a seal role and those DEs who played the rush role can be explained by short yardage and goal line situations where a larger "package" is required defensively.

 

QB sacks—hits—pressures

KVB had 5 - 10 - 16

McBride had 5 - 6 - 17

Avril had 9 - 2 - 43

Jackson had 8 - 2 - 11

The seal and rush roles are more readilly defined by this set of QB rushing stats than any other stats. The designated rush DEs would be expected to have the better snaps to sacks ratio:

Vanden Bosch had a sack for every 135.2 snaps played.

McBride had a sack for every 94.2 snaps played.

Avril had a sack for every 72.3 snaps played.

Jackson had a sack for every 42.1 snaps played.

 

Run Defense: Solo Tackles—Assists—Missed Tackles—Stops

KVB had 27 - 6 - 5 - 23

McBride had 15 - 7 - 2 - 8

Avril had 15 - 9 - 1 - 15

LoJack had 22 - 5 - 0 - 19

Which DEs were run at, and how did they fare? Let’s look at the snaps played to solo tackles plus assists ratio:

Vanden Bosch had a tackle, or assist for every 20.5 snaps played.

McBride had a tackle, or assist for every 21.4 snaps played.

Avril had a tackle, or assist for every 27.1 snaps played.

Jackson had a tackle or assist for every 12.5 snaps played.

How about the stops ratio? A stop is regarded as any play that was an offensive failure. Tackles for a loss, tackles for no gain, fumbles forced, plus sacks.

KVB recorded a stop for every 29.4 snaps played.

McBride recorded a stop for every 58.9 snaps played.

Avril recorded a stop for every 43.4 snaps played.

Jackson recorded a stop for every 17.7 snaps played.

Now, let’s look at the missed tackles ratio.

Vanden Bosch missed a tackle for every 135.2 snaps played.

McBride missed a tackle for every 62.3 snaps played.

Avril missed only one tackle in 651 snaps.

Jackson never missed a tackle in 337 snaps played.

Lawrence Jackson certainly looked like a 28th overall first round draft pick, didn’t he?

 

Penalties—Nullified

KVB had 6 - 2

McBride had 7 - 2

Avril had 6 - 1

LoJack had 1 - 0

Again, Jackson played about as good as a DE can. KVB, McBride, and Avril seldom hurt the Lions cause by taking costly penalties.

 

Observations

KVB brought leadership to a defense that sorely needed it. Not only has he set an excellent example of what it takes to be a professional, he leads by example.

The Lions defense now has an identity that reflects KVB’s values. His mantra, "All Day!" is the infectious saying that Ndamukong Suh, and the rest of the D-linemen can be heard repeating—with gusto.

The Lions defensive line has a growing mystique of dominance but, mystique alone doesn’t necessarily translate into results.

Sure, Vanden Bosch was, and never will be the sack machine that some fans expected when he was signed.

Vanden Bosch was put in the most advantageous position to be successful by the Lions coaching staff in 2010. There were no glaring deficiencies in his play from a statistical standpoint—given the role he played within the scheme.

With the emergence of Lawrence Jackson and Cliff Avril as bonified stars, it’s quite possible that we will see a diminished role for KVB moving forward, along with a change in scheme that most clearly embraces Jim Schwartz’s philosophy: "We will stop the run on the way to the quarterback."

Also, we cannot be certain of the free agency status of Turk McBride. If McBride leaves the team, the "Seal and Rush" scheme might be a one season phenomena unless Andre Fluellen grows into that role.

If the Lions can increase the pressure on QBs from both edges on a consistent basis by starting Avril and Jackson, then they should do so. Neither player was exposed as a liability in an opponent’s running game.

As for Vanden Bosch’s future? He will continue to be an integral part of the Lions plans. There is no better coach on the field for a defense to rally behind. I have no misgivings that Vanden Bosch will continue his solid, if unspectacular play as long as he remains healthy.

Even with a reduced role in the defense, Kyle Vanden Bosch will continue to be to the Detroit Lions what the late Bob Ufer characterized QB Rick Leach as "The guts and glue of the Maize and Blue."

All day, baby! All day!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.

Comment 55 comments  |  14 recs  | 

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WOW

very insightful. Great read and a rec from me. Keep this shit coming…

Yooperlionfan is officially "the man"
the Lions D-Line: the Four Horsemen of the A-sack-alypse
Jim Schwart: Erasing the stink of Millen, one fist pump at a time.
P.C.P: It is not just for recreation anymore.

by JCruize on Jul 20, 2011 11:48 AM EDT reply actions  

Thnks, JC!

The idea came from a discussion we were having right here at PoD. As it percolated amongst my brain synapses, I went back and watched film. Sure enough, the Lions played a “Seal & Rush” scheme predominately.

What makes this scheme so effective is that:

a. QBs are seldom flushed out of the pocket where they have space and time.
b. QBs are forced up into a non-existent pocket.
c. Better run support.

by mikeyclaw on Jul 20, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

one thing you missed on KVB

Red contacts to scare the shit out of o-linemen? Check

Yooperlionfan is officially "the man"
the Lions D-Line: the Four Horsemen of the A-sack-alypse
Jim Schwart: Erasing the stink of Millen, one fist pump at a time.
P.C.P: It is not just for recreation anymore.

by JCruize on Jul 20, 2011 11:50 AM EDT reply actions  

WE NEED MORE POSTS LIKE THIS!

this is what keeps me around, REC’D

miss you guys.

by IAmGross on Jul 20, 2011 12:09 PM EDT reply actions  

back at ya playa

;-)

The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.

by rames on Jul 20, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting theory here

I was under the impression that both DE positions were tasked with the same roles/assignments.

That understanding stems from a general scheme philosophy of a defense that works from front to back (where both sides mirror each other), as opposed to the traditional left to right (where there is distinct weakside and strongside responsibilities). Thus the whole, “LLB” & “RLB” and “LS” & “RS”…

When I think of it, I don’t know if it’s KVB’s natural style or the way Schwartz/Gun have instructed him – but there appeared to a real effort to “seal” that edge, whereas you’d see Avril blowing past his defender on the outside right from the “hut”…

It would explain putting Avril at LDE and KVB at RDE… it’s certainly a good idea to funnel the QB to our DTs as quick as possible…

The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.

by rames on Jul 20, 2011 12:24 PM EDT reply actions  

I probably shoudl have titled the LBs and Safties

simply “OLB” and “S” as there is little to no distinction being made…

When I recently re-watched the safety play, it became pretty obvious that toward the end of the year, Gun was frequently flipping who would be in the box, who would roam center field, and then have both in deep cover two…

I’m not totally sure the LBs worked like that – but I know Schwartz doesn’t like having anyone change alignment due to motions (therefore, the LLB must be able to cover a TE or RB even though he usually may not be tasked to do so…)

The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.

by rames on Jul 20, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

damn - need to go back to pre-school

meant RLB (aka WLB)

The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.

by rames on Jul 20, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

In modern defensive theory, there is nothing to differentiate between a SS and a FS . . . . . .

Other than where they line up on a given play.

The safety positions have undergone a series of changes over the years for various reasons. I wrote a paper on the changing roles of modern safeties that actually got me hired to analyze them.

If you like, I will post it at PoD.

by mikeyclaw on Jul 20, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please do

Id love to read it

"Common Sense, isn't" Solomon Short

by YpsilantiJeff on Jul 20, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

definitely

The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.

by rames on Jul 20, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Schwartz and Gunny (AKA Schwartzingham) have woven diverse skill sets into an outstanding scheme.

Now, if Avril and LoJack are paired, they would have basically the same traditional roles. Would this yield better results?

Your thoughts?

by mikeyclaw on Jul 20, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good question

As much as I love Cliff( I gave him my JCruize bump last season) LoJack is more rounded as a DE. I think that KVB/ Turk and LoJack is the best DE combination. Sorry Cliff, but LoJack has won my heart. I just hope he doesn’t ask for a prison BJ. I am beside myself whether or not I would give him one…. who am I kidding of course I would… : (

Yooperlionfan is officially "the man"
the Lions D-Line: the Four Horsemen of the A-sack-alypse
Jim Schwart: Erasing the stink of Millen, one fist pump at a time.
P.C.P: It is not just for recreation anymore.

by JCruize on Jul 20, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is why our line is going to be great.

Most people in the national media speak only about Suh, Fairley, and KVB. I hope other teams focus most of their game planning on those players as well. It almost feels as if Avril, Williams, and Jackson are flying under the radar. I can’t wait to see Avril and Jackson tear it up this year. The Silver Crush isn’t just two or three players, it’s a UNIT that I feel will dominate opposing offenses.

by Lion4Life on Jul 20, 2011 12:32 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Awsome write-up bro

Every time I see a post from you I know it’s gonna be some good stuff REC’D

by Motown_Soldier on Jul 20, 2011 2:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks, SSGT!

You get a big HOOOAHHH from this ole Jarhead.

by mikeyclaw on Jul 20, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aaaand rec'd again

This is an example of the stuff that ensures I check this site daily. Great stuff.

by jolo716 on Jul 20, 2011 2:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks for a good read Mikey.

Glad I see that the snot bubbles are living on.

It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.

"Only a real man quotes himself in the 3rd person" - Nate D. circa 2011

"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy." - Charlie McCarthy

by Leonuro on Jul 21, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mikey,

I think I’m reaching the point where I can confidently REC your posts without even having to read them!
Good job again, man. (rec’d)

by UndaDawg on Jul 20, 2011 3:56 PM EDT reply actions  

LoJack

Although i like KVB, Turk and Cliff, LoJack is going to be the best of the four. I am just as excited to see Lo hit the field as i am for Suh. Awesome insight mikey you gets a rec from me bro.

" Maybe for a writer...but i am sure most of you can tell i am not a writer". det32

by SmittyJ on Jul 20, 2011 5:16 PM EDT reply actions  

A fine post, which I recommend thoroughly

I have a feeling LoJack will be getting a lot of ink this year as well.

by TX Lion on Jul 20, 2011 7:54 PM EDT reply actions  

sure hope so

All he has to do is keep the momentum he had been playing at. He could easily develop into our most complete DE and that would pay dividends for a long time.

The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.

by rames on Jul 20, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm likin' it.

Nah, scratch that, I’m lovin’ it. A rec for you, good sir. Keep these coming, mikey.

by motown313 on Jul 20, 2011 8:36 PM EDT reply actions  

You know what I get from this?

Lo Jack is a fucking stud.

We need to play a damn 5-2 or something to get these guys on the field…

I would be ok with something like…
 
                                    Avril Jackson Fairly Suh KVB
                                                   
                                                    Levy Nichols
Houston Smith

                                                     Coleman

                                                                                                   Delmas

With Williams, SLH, McBride, Palmer etc rotating in heavily..

And don’t get me going on how awesome our Goal line D should be….

All men are created equal. Its just that some men are more equal than others....

by CapitolLions on Jul 21, 2011 11:28 AM EDT reply actions  

Well that didnt work at all LOL!

Obviously, the Corners, LBs and S’s should be spread out LOL!

All men are created equal. Its just that some men are more equal than others....

by CapitolLions on Jul 21, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like the formatting there

The weird spacing gives your post an air of mystique.

It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.

"Only a real man quotes himself in the 3rd person" - Nate D. circa 2011

"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy." - Charlie McCarthy

by Leonuro on Jul 21, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha

That would be some weird shite right there!

The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.

by rames on Jul 22, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

4-3 is fine gives guys rest they need to to come off the bench and play harder

by Daniel Simonelli on Jul 25, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Lions play a cover 2 defense in their 4-3. This calls for the MIKE LB to take some deep drops.

Who do you drop in a 5-2 scheme?

I like the 5-2 in goal line situations, or in a short yardage situation where you have an Adrian Peterson type stud RB. Flip LoJack and and Fairley and you might have something, though.

Hmmm.

What about playing a 3-4 on occasion?

……………………..Fairley………….Suh………….Williams/SLH
………….Avril…………….McBride……….KVB………………………Jackson/Young
Houston……Levy/Spievey……..Nicholas/Delmas…….Smith/???

That’s as stacked as the Lions defense can get.

by mikeyclaw on Jul 21, 2011 2:16 PM EDT reply actions  

I don’t know about that package my friend…

You may need to clean the residue out of your pipe.

by Millen_Free on Jul 22, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jackson can't play OLB

All men are created equal. Its just that some men are more equal than others....

by CapitolLions on Jul 22, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not so sure about LoJack at OLB myself.

I’d like to see him try it, though. Just for grins.

by mikeyclaw on Jul 23, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Avril might be able to do it

He certainly has good speed and out of the few drops he was tasked with, he did get a pass defense…

The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.

by rames on Jul 23, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

We would have a huge hole in pass coverage

All men are created equal. Its just that some men are more equal than others....

by CapitolLions on Jul 24, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Neither of them has shown that they can cover anyone in the open field

All men are created equal. Its just that some men are more equal than others....

by CapitolLions on Jul 26, 2011 7:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

well no

i seem to remember jo jack missing a sack on vick becides u put lo jack in every down and he wont be as productive just like turk wouldnt be they both came off so good because they were well rested and ready to pounce put turk and jo jack in everyone down and see what happens bro im sick of fools making these threads

by Daniel Simonelli on Jul 25, 2011 4:54 PM EDT reply actions  

A lot of great players whiff on Vick.

I’d like to see all 4 DEs getting around 600 – 625 snaps. We will see how a rotation plays out.

by mikeyclaw on Jul 25, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

3-4 shameful

we’d get stomped if we went to 3-4 u need really good lb’s to pull off 3-4

by Daniel Simonelli on Jul 25, 2011 4:56 PM EDT reply actions  

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