SB Nation Detroit Editor's Pick
Lions Still Have Opportunities To Improve With Free Agents
by TuffLynx on Jul 28, 2011 7:45 PM EDT
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I have been reading the comments at Pride of Detroit and we seem to have one or two guys that are all stressed out about the lack of big name signings by the Lions. I really do not understand this attitude since any person that has watched the Lions over the course of the Mayhew/Schwartz era should know that they are not given to impulsive moves. If anything, the Lions braintrust is methodical and organized.
The attitude of the "Chicken Little" faction seems to be that the Lions need to sign the big names right now before somebody else does. That is not only wrong, it is nonsense, and here is why.
Free agency is, and always will be, a process that is controlled by the players and their agents. You cannot force a player to sign for what you offer. They have to accept your offer. If you are making such a good offer that a player will jump on it with little thought, then you are likely overpaying for that player. All you accomplish by overpaying is putting your team into salary cap problems in later years.
Making offers to free agents is a negotiating process. The teams will make offers and the agents will discuss them with their client and make recommendations. The only way that an agent will recommend an immediate signing is when a player is getting such a good deal that they are not likely to benefit from further negotiations.
This process will often settle into a lot of proposals with counter-proposals. The agents will try to play competing teams against each other to get the best deal for their client. It takes time and patience for a General Manager to reach a deal with a player that does not spiral out of control in favor of the player.
Often the top free agent will dictate the pace of negotiations. In this off-season the perfect example of that is Nnamdi Asomugha. Most of the free agent cornerbacks will not sign deals until after Asomugha does because he is expected to set a new top end salary for the position. Every other cornerback will try to use that new ceiling to negotiate for a higher salary for themselves.
When you are saying that you expect the Lions to sign people NOW NOW NOW, all you are saying is that you do not understand the process and expect Martin Mayhew to make bad deals in order to satisfy your need for instant gratification. in other words, you need to calm down and be sensible.
If you want a valid measuring stick on whether the lions are actually doing poorly in the free agent negotiations then you should look at which free agents are still left available. As long as the guys that you want to sign are still available then you haven't lost anything. Saying that the Lions are messing up when these guys are still unsigned is nonsense.
Just take a deep breath and look at who is still out there:
CB: Asomugha, Joseph, Cromartie, Rogers, Carr, Marshall, and a host of others. that even assumes that the Lions don't just resign Houston.
LB: Tulloch, Barnett, McIntosh, Lawson and a host of others. There are still LOTS of opportunities for the Lions to get another linebacker.
If you want to panic at this point then go right ahead. But all you prove by doing that is that you are entirely whacked out and have no clue.
UPDATE: As I posted this the news broke that Houston signed Johnathan Joseph. While that hurts it is not nearly fatal. There are still plenty of guys out there that would be an improvement to the team at CB. If we sign Asomugha nobody will remember that we wanted Joseph anyway.
UPDATE #2: The Lions picked up a cornerback by signing Eric Wright. Wright seemed to struggle a bit with the Mangini Defense but thrived under the Romeo Crennel defense. This seems to indicate that he plays better in man coverage than in zone. That should suit the Lions just fine. While Wright was not thought of as one of the big names because of his struggles last season the change of scenery to Motown may be just what he needs to return to form. When Wright is playing well he is very good.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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As usual, sage advice, TL
Great post, and a rec. Needed this right now.
And to think, it’s not even Friday yet…
'The reality is - the police become necessary in human society, only at that junction in a society where it is split between those who have, and those who ain't got' - Omali Yeshitela
"In the absence of logic it is not uncommon that sanity can only be found by embracing lunacy." – Leonuro, circa 2011
by Nate D. on Jul 28, 2011 7:50 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
What's that song?
I want it all. I want it all. I want it all, and I want it NOW!!!!
by Dave Marshall on Jul 28, 2011 7:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
no worries here
i still have no idea what it will be, but i am 99% positive mayhew and co. have at least one more surprise in store for us.
I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness.
Right on the Button
I`m more stoked about who we have, who we have kept and who wants to be here and who we have said farewll to, This is getting good.
1 slice, 1 beer, 5 more reps.
Seriously though
You make a great point. It’s so easy to get carried away. Who wouldn’t want most of the top players? Especially now that we’re finally at the point where we can actually identify weaknesses as opposed to glazing over at all of the wholes or talking yourself into believing in mediocrity.
Thanks for taking it down a notch. It is a bit of a buzzkill though:-)
by Dave Marshall on Jul 28, 2011 8:58 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
LOL, we might still get some of the name guys
Most of the best guys rarely sign fast because they will play the bidders to get more money. Nothing says we won’t get Nnamdi. He hasn’t signed with anybody yet.
besides, this was mainly meant for Matthew Malek because I didn’t know he got banned before I posted it.
he'll be back tomorrow
Sean says he’s gonna unban him
BTW, this post isn't meant to be a buzzkill
It is more about savoring the moment. When is the last time you have felt the Lions could become Super Bowl contenders by signing a couple of the right players? That’s right, you haven’t! This is new ground for all of us. Let’s be dignified and savor this like a fine wine. Don’t try to gulp it all in. Take it in small sips and let the flavor of it wash over you. You will remember it later with a lot more fondness if you do.
+1
"But the point is, finger-pointing is just what sports fans do when something doesn't go right." -- Kurt Mensching
by RealityIsOptionable on Jul 28, 2011 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Still, the Window of Time Is Small and Lions' Cap Room Not As Big As Others
I too thank you for the great post Tuff and apt overview of the process. However, the compression of 3 to 5 months of Free Agency into 3 to 5 days is unprecedented and limits the time for Mayhewing of this particular type, though trades & PS lootings will remain part of his toolkit. There’s more guys to sort through now when roster deadlines come—and I doubt that any team at those stages will trade (for example) an LB equally strong in run stoppage and pass coverage for a bunch of signed UFAs who don’t distinguish themselves in a similar way. Same for CBs. I’m not Chicken LIttle and I love Martin but I still think when the season’s on we’ll have a better LB unit but CBs who are similar to 2010. If the front 7 can bring the heat even quicker, maybe it won’t matter as much as, let’s say, last Thanksgiving Day against the Patriots.
by LionFanInChiefsLand on Jul 28, 2011 10:16 PM EDT reply actions
Andrew Bradt keeps mentioning it
Patience, Patience, and don’t react on impluse. Jonathan Joseph isn’t that special. By my account, if Alphonso Smith keeps growing at the rate he has, he will be just as good if not better than Joseph.It surprises me how much people think of a guy that has never been to a Pro Bowl and has only had two good years while playing with another stud corner on the other side of the field…
House of Spears | My Detroit Lions/NFL Blog
by Latif Masud on Jul 28, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
But
Where is our stud corner for Alphonso to play beside? Houston?
by Dave Marshall on Jul 28, 2011 10:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Shauntez
Wake up lions! Nate Clemons is our guy. Don’t fall asleep and let him get away. We have a great D-line this year and I’m pretty sure Nate will enjoy the easy pickings this year. After that add Chris Carr or resign Houston. I think we should forget about Tulloch and got after Barnett or sign another OLB, get some depth on our o-line and we are in baby lets go!
by Shauntez Peters on Jul 28, 2011 11:02 PM EDT reply actions
there's a cap this year...
The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.
I don't know if you knew this
But Nate Clements really sucks. His name might have sparked interest 6 years ago.
by Hussein Beydoun on Jul 29, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
https://twitter.com/jay_glazer/status/96777091340709888
Sproles is signed by NO 2 year deal
Lots of people seem to think you'll end up with Barnett for ILB....
a really sold player who’ll get to see GB twice a year with revenge on his mind for losing his job due to injury (good for you, bad for us).
On one hand I don’t want him to do well against GB should you get him, but on another he was always a pretty good player and it would be nice to see him find a good fit where he can help your younger defense grow and become (more) dominating.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 29, 2011 6:31 AM EDT reply actions
Thanks
Appreciate the respect for the defense that’s being built in the Motor City. I think it would be a great pick up for the Lions to get Barnett. If I’m not mistaken, he can play outside as well as inside, right? Solid against the run and can cover the TE when called upon. I haven’t heard about him being cut yet, tho. Whats the word you’re hearing? Are the Packers gonna cut Barnett and let him fall into the laps of the up and coming Detroit Lions?
by Detroitfantc on Jul 29, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
He's been cut now. Think they were holding out for trade.
I’m not sure he could play OLB (or maybe that he would). Seemed to be a hangup with him when they switched to 3-4 that he insisted on staying ILB. GB is still looking for that opposite OLB from Clay so if Barnett could do it, he’d have been given a shot.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Jul 29, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
it will be a great pick up
barnett still has drive and gas in the tank.. he is good in coverage and also off the edge.. he has high energy he reminded me of merriman before the injuries!! but there are other options too rock mac.. barret rudd….even at cornerguys like brent grimes and carlos rogers.. alot of people are still sleeping on chris carr also… i would love to solidify another safety also but we have to see how the cap goes after we resign avril and maybe houston.. soooooo happy that c.c. brown is outta here… never would not have put my team in that position last year with a one armed safety.. not as my last line of defense..lolol
GOOOOOOO LIONS...
nice voice of reasoning TLynx
What i think is that there is a high level of expectations and hopes that have come w/ a long off season and the lockout that Detroit is a team on the rise and possible threat to upset GB which are the current bowl champs. Then add in this hectic free agency w/ some big names in it and you get a lot of emotions running. Its natural to want someone like Asomugha but unrealistic at same time to expect him. Now as far as the other names like Joseph and Cro .. i think its the fact that Detroit seems so a miss w/ the secondary and that being a big problem to solve that the fans want to see that splash so they can really feel like this isnt just another we "drank the kool aid " moment especially w/ the momentum the team has riding into the season from last w/ some good pick ups so far it seems.
Personally I think they need to sew up Houston now before he does escape to another team if any are interested. Bring him back (shortened off season and this would be year 2 in the scheme would go along way ) and w/ the talent u have work from there, that might allow them to sign Tulloch or another good LB if one is even needed at this point. W/ all those bodies in camp one has to wonder if there could be a Gem in there. If there was one thing that the Lockout actually did was put more bodies in camp which also means more chances for these players who would have been cut otherwise to shine and more probable to make the team.
A coward dies a thousands Deaths a soldier dies once ....
+1
great points!! we could find some diamonds in the ruff… i love the new setup with more bodies in camp!! we can find some arron berrys out there!!
GOOOOOOO LIONS...
TUff...
You are right on almost all accounts. What you are missing is that the EXPECTATIONS were that we were going to sign Tulloch or Joseph or even both. There are still other options. But things DO NOT look good. If all we do is sign Durant and Wright I will laugh at ANYONE who tries to claim that this was success and that we did what our PLAN was and that clearly everything will work out cuase they are so talented. I love both guys we signed. But with the GREAT 4 GAME WIN STREAK OF 2010 and the Media hype we had a chance to make a game changing signing that erased YEARS of Millens B.S. Looks like we will fail at that. But I hope I am wrong.
Malek
I'm sure our PLAN
was to go after a few key players we liked, but we had pretty firm idea of what they were worth to us…if it went over that amount, our PLAN would be to move on to PLAN B, C etc….
The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.
Matthew...
Expectations and five dollars will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. You cannot worry about expectations, they are fickle and fleeting. If you build a team based on fan expectations what you get is a loser.
We all went into the draft with the expectation that the Lions would draft Prince Amukamara if he was there. Instead we took Nick Fairley despite the fact that Amukamara was available. Has that turned out to be a public relations problem for the Lions? Not at all. In fact, the Nick Fairley pick has spurred talk of the Lions having one of the greatest defensive lines in history.
You need to realize that the fan expectations will morph into whatever feels good. Fans do not want to feel bad about their team. So we will look for reasons to accept and love whatever the lions do.
Case in point… the Lions lose out on Johnathan Joseph and sign Eric Wright. As it turns out, signing Joseph would have meant that the lions did not have the money to sign anybody else. We went into the free agent period with about $10 million in cap room and that is about what Joseph cost to sign. So now we realize that Joseph would have been a high priced mistake and we are looking at the potential of Eric Wright.
Because we did not sign Joseph and spent more reasonably on Eric Wright we also were able to sign Justin Durant. I expect the Durant deal to be under 3 million dollars per season. I expect the Wright deal to be around $5 million per season or less. That means the Lions have a chance at Nick Barnett if they shift a little money around. They got about $500K more by releasing Dizon. I think the Lions can squeeze out another million or two in playing with numbers. So they probably have about $4 million left to work with, by my estimation.
So now you have to ask one more serious question….
What was the Lions plan coming into free agency. I can tell you right now that the lions had ZERO expectation of landing big names. Sure, they looked into guys like Asomugha because they felt it was important to cover the bases. But I do not feel they ever expected to sign him. The same is true of Joseph. The Lions made their offer and Joseph turned it down so they moved on.
So what exactly did you expect? The Lions did not have the big cap room that other teams had. The Lions were not willing to let a bunch of important players go in order to sign one big name. We did not have a lot of dead weight on the roster with big salaries like the Cowboys or Ravens did. Given the financial realities there was never a very good chance of making a big signing. We just didn’t have the money for it.
When you look at where the Lions are at and what they plan to do in order to build, they have never really been about making big moves. They are more about steady incremental improvements based on players that have good talent and a reasonable salary. The KVB and Burleson signings from last season are the exceptions and I expect those will both end up being an albatross within the next two seasons.
With the new CBA in place you need to realize how the new NFL will develop. Teams will build based on low priced rookie contracts, a variety of capable veterans, and a few big named stars. Going after a big name in free agency only makes sense if you feel that one guy will put you over the hump to win a Super Bowl. The Lions just are not at the stage yet. You are about two years ahead of yourself here. The Lions still have too many holes to fill to blow the wallet on one big name.
by TuffLynx on Jul 29, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this
is the key part of the whole issue. EXPECTATIONS! Some people get so embroiled in the fiction they create in their head any reality is going to disappoint them.
Good article TL I hope it’s spirit is taken to heart.
Individuals should protect themselves. Governments can't protect individuals from themselves, it's just impossible, otherwise they become a tyranical state. -Ron Paul
I want the right player, not the highest paid player.
Years of suckatude is coming back to haunt the Lions by having a slew of high contract players already on the payroll, so the right fit and not the big contract is more important this signing period.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Great story
I dont know who Eric Wright is. i trust he is good but i need you guys to fill me in on him. Jason Durant was a great sign though. he is young and athletic.
Getting to the expectations topic.
Malak… who in the hell would have thought we would sign guys demanding 10 mill. a year and 6 mill. a year? There good but not game changers. And both positions have a surplus in talent in free agency.
It defeintly wasnt Joseph and Tulloch or bust for the Detriot Lions this year.
Now i want to make my case for our next cornerback target: Brent Grimes
He is a restricked free agent but i have no clue if any team has made an offer. I am sure the falcons will match any offer but it is worth a shot.
He might be to pricey. He was a undrafted free agent in 06 and has proved he can play. He was a pro bowler last year and a top priority for Atlanta. He has great tetnique and is a ball hawk.
Again he might be too pricey but maybe we can screw the falcons into a 4 mill. per year contract. Odds are 100 to 1 but here is a link to show his dominace.
by Bballkid-22 on Jul 30, 2011 9:39 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
"Now i want to make my case for our next cornerback target"
I meant my instead of our. I have no clue what mayhew is going to do.
Rec'd - Agree He's the Man & Thanks for the Vid
Fantastic post Bball ! I’m not pinning my hopes on any one guy in particular, especially not the Big Money, Cap-Straining studs, but just noting the compressed time element due to the Lockout that will make camp as hurried as these opening days of Free Agency. Grimes is amazing in space; makes me wish I’d seen more Falcons games out here; but the network makes those regional broadcast decisions. Keep spying out the proven players just below the major headlines!
by LionFanInChiefsLand on Jul 30, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for watching and reading.
Yeah he was kind of under the radar with Asomougha and Joseph and other big names in free agencey. He has a great vertical and made some great plays. ill keep finding the unknown proven players. Thanks for the Rec also
by Bballkid-22 on Jul 31, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Grimes is a 2nd round tender
he going nowhere
Yooperlionfan is officially "the man"
the Lions D-Line: the Four Horsemen of the A-sack-alypse
Jim Schwart: Erasing the stink of Millen, one fist pump at a time.
P.C.P: It is not just for recreation anymore.
He is actually a first round tender...
http://www.thefalcoholic.com/2011/3/4/2030020/atlanta-falcons-set-first-round-tender-on-brent-grimes
but your still right. He isn’t going anywhere.
Yeah i didnt bother to look it up.
Cuz im sure the Falcons want him to be in there future especially with them on the super bowl push. They were gonna match pretty much any offer. I want to save my first rounder anyway.
by Bballkid-22 on Jul 31, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
yo TL
another reason why I enjoy the POD
well written , articulate and thought out
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Jul 30, 2011 12:56 PM EDT reply actions
I just have one thought
I hope that Wright is a lot better than the last cornerback we got from Cleveland’s discards.
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
And yes I know...
He went on to do big things once he was in NE…
If one of these guys can't take us to the promised land, maybe we should shop for one. You can have the greatest running back of all time, but if you don't have a consistent quarterback, you don't win.
-Wayne Fontes
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