Does Detroit ruin their Running Backs?

Too bad Gash couldn’t have had more influence on Felton.

   That’s what she said. But seriously, replace a couple of our lineman(guess who) with guys that can open some holes and I think we see some improvement in the running game. Partial blame could goto Gash but how long has he been here and how long has our run game been subpar?

I don’t have the exact numbers on hand, but I think he averaged just under 302 carries a year in college, and had something like 450 carries his senior season. That’s insane usage of a college running back.

that and a bad oline has been the issues.

Best has been too tentative in the backfield and hasn’t showed good, quick vision – thus negating his speed entirely. Kevin Smith was the same way – he didn’t adjust well to his blockers get pushed back (which at least one inevitably would on almost every play) – IMO, more patience in our backfield usually=loss of yards.

We need authority – yes, with good vision and quick feet and burst through the hole – but enough of this indecision already! I"m sick of it!

They are crushed under the weight of our expectation that they will be better than Barry Sanders. After all, Barry could not block worth a shit and he was a mediocre receiver at best. I mean, all the guy could do is run the ball. That is not the all purpose threat that the fans of this franchise deserve!

I’ll say it one more time. Never, never, ever draft a RB.in the 1st round and especially NEVER trade up for one….IMO

Screw that. plug em in a ready made Oline and offense, use them for a year or two and then adios.

You see how the rest of the league is now valuing RB’s by how high their now being taken in the 1st round if that.

Short careered commodity position.

to me the last few RB in Detroit were undersized compared to most other runners in the league. Usually lacking what i think is good upper body and stronger lower bodies. one key i noticed was all bout speed but no compensation for the power game .. enter ala Leshoure who was the hopes of being that runner however in his own words him and Best style was very similar and he didnt want people thinking he was only between the tackles runner.

aside from that no one is going to run well behind this O Line til they prove different and it starts right in the middle w/ Dom he is definitely the weak link on this OLine right now.

Interesting topic, Why don’t we go in the direction of teams like Baltimore as far as backs go? Would a big bruiser back that can block not fit into our system better? Mix in the small speed backs, I know this may be the madden in me but If I could figure out a way to trade for Brandon Jacobs I would do it.

Detroit running backs are hampered by sucky line blocking.

I don’t think the schemes are the problem. I think that the Lions have not made the offensive line a priority to upgrade because it was not the biggest hole that they needed to fill. Mayhew saw left guard as a problem, as it had been in Detroit for a decade it seems. So he went out and got Rob Sims who has filled the position adequately.

There have been some other moves by Mayhew to draft players for the offensive line, but they were always later round picks. The offensive line philosophy , so far, during the Mayhew tenure has been to get by with what we have and develop replacements over time.

After the past off-season, the Lions have no filled most of their holes at other positions and the inability of the offensive line to block for runs has percolated to the top of the issues that remain. I feel that we will see some moves soon to shore up the interior of the offensive line. We will have to see who gets cut and where they fit in.

that’s why B.Sanders retired. He was tired of running 50 yds, sideline to sideline to gain 10 yrds. He probably figured he was due to get a serious injury and didn’t want to play for another team. He was a diehard Lion forever and he left with class. Hasn’t been a RB in NFL since that had the agility, mobility and speed. If he would have played behind a better OL he would have broke WP’s record yrs before he hung up the cleats.

playing with terrible schemes, and not many great players.
With better talent and coaching they may have avoided the injury bug
or at least been able to accomplish more while healthy.

As far as Gash, I doubt he’s giving them coaching about how to hit the hole, block, or run a play that’s also not being advocated by the Head Coach / FO (in terms of philosophy).
A full back as a running backs coach, regardless of how he performed while in the league, doesn’t seem to be a bad thing. Many HB’s are so instinctual and talented (Wilbert Montgomery)it would be hard to coach that, while a fullback had to understand the oline, and where to go and block, and how to set that up for the featured runner.

It’s the o-line. Even though we got spoiled on Barry even he had to make shit happen behind an oline that wasn’t great. Hell how many stops for losses did that man have and he was the BEST. Until we get lineman that can not only passblock but also run block it doesn’t matter who we have back there. They will get steam rolled.

 I hate our blind loyalty to Raiola. The man sucks. He may know the calls but those can be taught. What can’t be taught is size and strength. He needed to go 5 years ago. Honestly we should of never drafted the turd.

or does it look like the RB’s are just running to the play design. Like they don’t have the option to even look for the holes. I know we’re talking split second decision but that’s the difference in a good back and a great back.
Sometimes they run right in to the back of the guard and don’t see the hole to the left or right.

Even with superior O-lines the holes are never in the same place. A good or great running back anticipates where the hole will or won’t be after the play starts. He can’t go to a predetermined spot, great running backs can tell immediately whether the play will go as planned or whether it will blow up or somewhere in the middle. Barry Sanders knew where the second and third levels would probably be while receiving the hand off. How many times have you seen him receive the hand off and spin out of a tackle immediately. He anticipated the play was blown up very early in the play and was ready to spin out of a tackle.

if any one of them left for anything resembling an NFL career.

 The problem with the running game has been the same old thing…the passing game.If the passing game works, you don’t need the running game, if the passing game doesn’t work, the running is useless. It’s a passing league, running backs aren’t that important, ask the Minnesota Vikings, they have a great running back, how did that work out for them last year? How important was it the year before? Barry Sanders didn’t need a good o-line, he didn’t run between the tackles. He was an "AR- TEEEST. It’s nice when you can get a big bruiser but you can win without one.

I would take Smith over Harrison, Bell, or Morris at this point. Smith average 3.9 ypc last year even when we were stinking and our run blocking was poopy. Morris comes along when we start blocking and managed about 3.7 ypc. K Smoove has good hands and catches very well out of the backfield, good pass blocker, knows the system, great vision, studied his fronts and knew how blocks would develop, patient, tough. Jones, while having good speed and size lacked anticipation/patience/understanding. He appeared to run with his eyes closed sometimes.

The answer is yes and no.

The yes part. It is medically proven and known that playing surface used in the Silver Dome was much harsher on a players knee joints, and more specifically the running backs. Mainly because they put more stress and impact on that joint than any other position except possibly corner backs. To a lesser degree this is still true in Ford Field. The Field turf just is not as kind to the body as natural grass that is well maintained.

However that being said, you have to take a look at each player.

Billy Sims injured himself because he played like a madman, that would have happened on any turf.

Jonathan Stewart was injured on a hit, that would have happened on any turf.

Kevin Smith was injured in Baltimore if memory serves on natural grass.

Kevin Jones might have an issue with turf, but even that is debatable.

I think you get the point, no need to carry on.

Is it scheme and personnel? No. A lot of people like to say that the Lions had a horrible offensive line with Sanders. Well actually for a time the left side of that line was all pro, only the right side was an issue.

Is our current line horrible? Absolutely not. It has been at times, and it can be, but in general we stack up pretty well as an above average offensive line when it comes to run blocking. Sure you have lines like the Saints, Jets, Texans, Ravens, Giants, and others that are better in run blocking. However most of those teams use either use schemes such as zone blocking and other personnel, such as tight ends or a dominant fullback to help make the difference between opening a hole and not.

So I am not going to get on the personnel. If you ask me Jeff Backus us one of the best run blocking left tackles in the NFL, Rob Sims is at least average if not better, and both Cherilus and Peterman can be downright beasts in the running game.

The Line iteself only has one weak link in the run game, Raiola. However the lack of a true lead blocking fullback and the failure to utilize an absolute beast blocker in Will Heller, who IMO is better in blocking than Grew, can fall squarely on coaching.

So in some ways scheme can be a failure. Currently, not in the past when we had Cory Schlesenger. Most dominant running teams in the NFL feature a very dominant fullback or guard or guards. From hutch in Seattle and Minny to Richardson with the Jets and other teams to Vonte Leach with the Texans and now the Ravens.

If you ask me, the problem with the Lions is completely in scheme and it has shown a history with Scott Linehan. He has never had a dominant rusher actually improve under him. Even in St. Louis Stephen Jackson seemed to falter under his regime only to make a resurgence after he left.

Why Linehan wants to run a spread offense with finesse tight ends like Scheffler, and still keep a power blocking scheme is beyond me. The Texans have irrefutably proven to me the value of a zone blocking scheme in a spread offense. And I have yet to see a dominant goal line run team without a decent guard / FB combo to run behind.

Peterman can be our guard if he could stay healthy, but if you ask me the only way we effectively run at the goal line is if we put Will Heller or Suh in there to lead block. And even if you dont like Peterman we can still combine with Cherilus or Backus to do the same thing. But we need Heller and Suh to both be in there if you ask me to run short yardage. A one man block does not a lane make, you need at least 2-3 guys getting solid push on the defensive guys to create a crease or running lane.

While letting go of Felton might cause some folks to knee jerk on that. For me it is a breath of fresh air. There are other far better blockers on this team and all he was doing was taking a roster spot from a more useful player IMO.

GL to Felton and all, but really, to eat some humble pie and work harder is what he needs, not a new team.

I like Linehan, but e always leaves me on the bubble of being ready to throw fits and bitch up a storm. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt for now, because an offense really takes off in its 3rd year. This year should be very revealing as to what he can bring to the table for us. My gut tells me that most of us just don’t see the big picture with him, and I will also give him some slack on the Leshoure injury. He still does not have all the pieces he needs in the running game so he will be doing a patchwork job again this year, not so much as the past, but still he is operating under adverse conditions.

You basically think the Lions ruin running backs because the NCAA leader in carries (Kevin Smith) and a guy with a past history of concussions and injuries (Jahvid Best) couldn’t get it done in the NFL?

Its the runningback spot, which is basically the paper plate spot of the NFL. There are very few runningbacks that stay healthy even after they have great offensive lines blocking for them.

run into a defensive line that dominated our o – line time and again. I don’t think it had anything to with his vision. There was just no room to run when he carried the ball most of the time.

One thing I will always remember Shack Harris saying about scouting RBs coming out for the draft is that they are leery of backs who have played alot of snaps. I don’t think there’s another position on the field where there is more concern about tread life.

I’ve been thinking about this for quite awhile. Are the Lions using the wrong blocking scheme? The answer may very well be yes.

The Lions play the man-power blocking scheme (MBS) vs. the zone blocking scheme (ZBS). In the ZBS, o-linemen attack an area as opposed to a particular defender on the 1st level. RBs pick their own holes based on their defensive “reads” prior to the snap.

The nice thing about the ZBS is that it doesn’t matter what the defense does, so no line calls are necessary. It also doesn’t matter whether it’s a 4-3, or 3-4 defense.

The Lions have been using the MBS primarily for over a decade. They will ocassionally do some strong side zone blocking on the edge, but it’s mostly straight up man blocking. The problem with changing to the ZBS is that smaller (yes, I said smaller), more agile linemen are needed to run it successfully.

The Lions would need to overhaul the entire O-line—something that many fans are clamoring for anyway.