Detroit Lions Training Camp: Notes From Friday's Practice
by Sean Yuille on Aug 5, 2011 4:44 PM EDT
in Detroit Lions Training Camp
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- Titus Young and Gosder Cherilus were among the players that missed practice on Friday.
- Jeff Backus and Alphonso Smith remain on the active/non-football injury list, but Smith is no longer wearing a boot on his broken foot.
- Andre Fluellen broke his hand on Thursday after it got caught in a facemask. He had a cast on his hand and will likely play with a club on it.
- Chris Houston started at left cornerback and Eric Wright was the starter at right cornerback for the Lions. DeAndre Levy continued to start at middle linebacker.
- Tom Kowalski writes that Demario Ballard hasn't gotten many reps the last two days with all of the free agents being able to practice. Kowalski also writes that Derrick Williams was the Lions' third wide receiver with Young still out. The next set of receivers includes Rashied Davis, Tim Toone and Maurice Stovall.
- Chris McCosky noted that Dominic Raiola and Levy were getting into it during a drill until Jim Schwartz said, "That's enough."
- Paula Pasche said that Matthew Stafford and Calvin Johnson put on another show during today's practice. It seems every day the two are connecting for big plays.
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yeah, right?
I don’t know if it’s the “Megatron” nickname but with that tinted facemask, I’ve always felt if Calvin spoke, his lips wouldn’t even move!
"Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live it's whole life believing that it is stupid"
-Albert Einstein
So all Schwartz had to do was say that's enough?
Nice to know even one of the most seasoned vets listen when he speaks.
"Where in the World is Ndamukong Suh?
Probably pushing 800-pound gorillas out of their choice seats in movie theaters."
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by Enforcer on Aug 5, 2011 5:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Obviously these camps bring out the aggrevation in the players but i really wonder what Dom said to levy to get him heated, I’m sure it couldve been the other way around but knowing dom’s personality im willing to bet his mouth was running as usual.
An anonymous source told me it went something like this:
Dom: “I’m the best center ever”
Levy then got down on one knee, bent down and punched Dom in the gut.
It's turkey, Lions and Macy's. Any other combination is just ludicrous.
"Only a real man quotes himself in the 3rd person" - Nate D. circa 2011
"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy." - Charlie McCarthy
What s up with Berry...
I cant see him just taking a back seat to Houston like that, the kid has done nothing but impress although camp.
Stafford and Calvin still on fire thats awesome. Any news on how Fox looks thus far in camp?
" Maybe for a writer...but i am sure most of you can tell i am not a writer". det32
by SmittyJ on Aug 5, 2011 7:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Houston and Wright are what we paid for
Berry, Phonzo, Vasher, and Leggett are fighting for the rest. They’re the ones who have to bring it to get those final spots. I’d be happy with any of them.
I want to hear how Fox and the other backup OTs are doing as well. My reading of the camp notes is not so good. It’s hard to tell whether that’s because our D-line is so good or because the O-line is so bad.
I understand where your coming from...
but at the sametime if you got a player out performing the guy your paying all the money too maybe its time to start handing out play cuts.
I like Houston but i like Berry as well and all he has done from the start of camp is show his ass. I think giving Houston the starting job back is bullshit, he has to earn it back this is the NFL not the natioal favortism league either.
I think Fox is going to win himself a job, the kid has all the tools just needs some PT.
" Maybe for a writer...but i am sure most of you can tell i am not a writer". det32
by SmittyJ on Aug 5, 2011 10:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You can't really say he outperformed Houston and Wright.
Both Chris Houston and Erik Wright were free agents so they were not really able to practice except for the last couple of days. Sure, Berry looked great while Nathan Vasher was the only real competition in camp. But the coaches had a chance to see him for a while and how they want to see what they paid out free agent money for.
No need to get all worried about Berry, he will make the roster if he stays healthy. But it is pretty clear that the Lions paid Wright and Houston to be the starting cornerbacks and if somebody else wants to start they will ahve to take the job away from them.
That's true but
the others have to show a little extra to beat out what you paid for.
I like Berry but he’s going to bring it for a full season to take a starting spot, I think. Same with Phonso, Leggett, and Spievey.
I should also add that
experience counts for a lot as a CB. Houston and Wright have 4 years experience against NFL WRs. Berry has one game experience. Berry, Phonzo, and Leggett all need more seasoning.
How can you decide who the best player is unless you see them playing?
The coaches had plenty of chances to see what Berry can do while Wright and Houston has to sit out. Now that free agents are allowed to play they want to see what those guys can do. Don’t worry, if Berry plays well enough to take a starting job he will be back on the first team. But he has to take it away, not just be crowned with it because they other guys didn’t get to play.
What's up with Titus?
Last I heard he had “leg stiffness,” but he seems to have missed a lot of time.
Yeah they must have been, like, really stiff
"I'm glad they made Flintstone's vitamins because I used to watch The Flintstones and go, "Man I bet you if I ate that dude, I would be healthy."
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3:10
After 4 hours….call more ladies!
"I'm glad they made Flintstone's vitamins because I used to watch The Flintstones and go, "Man I bet you if I ate that dude, I would be healthy."
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We'll miss you, Pain Train.
Nothing to do with this particular post.
Jeff Backus is SO infuriating! I’m watching NFL Live and they’re showing a Osi highlight reel. 76 pretty much concedes that physically he’s no match for the guy and tries to cut him at the line. Osi blow’s right by ‘em, only reason Drew Stanton doesn’t come out of the game with a seperated shoulder is because Osi prefers to strip the ball rather than crush a guy(thanks Ju P). Same crap he pulled against Ju P in week 1. I hope Jason Fox wins this job because 9 doesn’t stand a chance with this guy.
You also have to consider that
the Lions kept back extra blockers fewer times than any other team in the NFL.
That is, they relied on the front five to hold their blocks without help. When Stafford went down in week 1, the backfield was empty. I don’t know what happened with the hit on Stafford against the Giants, but those are the same guys who had 10 sacks against the Bears earlier in the year.
Some guys you are just not going to block every time.
I think part of the problem is that the Lions did not have enough weapons that they could keep an extra guy back to block. I would like to think that is not the case now.
No matter what, it is something that the Lions had the 4th best O-line in giving up sacks in 2010 despite not having elite personnel.
hit on *Stanton* against the Giants
curse no edit button!
Very valid point
But when a team lines up like that they are depending on the guy to hold his own. He could do at least a half ass job if he wasn’t throwning himself at guys knees because he knows he’s to damn slow. For God sakes a hold is better than getting your Qb KILLED. You also pointed out how good we are with sacks, something that people don’t think about though are hits in the pocket. How many times is a guy just getting rid of a ball only to take a kill shot. Isn’t that how Hill got broke his forearm. We really need to clean the line up and it starts with 76.
by fiendishdr.wu on Aug 5, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It is a whole hell of a lot easier to rush a passer than it is to block for a passer
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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Yeah
Especially when the guy is on the guy is on the ground watching the rush after a failed cut block.
by fiendishdr.wu on Aug 6, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes and no.
Sometimes it’s because they don’t have the talent to keep extra blockers in. So they have to rely on the front five and change the scheme to take it into account. So one time that strategy failed and Stafford missed most of a season. It could have happened any time. You can’t get them all.
for all the noise you guys are talking about with Backus i must say......
KEEP SOME perspective.. Stafford was sacked 4 times in 3 games!!!!… Backus gave up one sack vs Peppers. The defensive end some could argue is top 5 in the last 2 decades of NFL football…..ONE sack guys!!! ….KEEP it in perspective… Giants have a really good DL…sometimes the other team makes plays… YES we could use a Jake Long… but only one team has one. Keep it in perspective… is Backus all world? NO!….is Backus trash? NO!! … Did Stafford take a few hits ? YES!!! Is he gonna have to take a few more? YES!! .. .at some point everyone is gonna have to come to the reality that Stafford will get hit and he is just gonna have to get up..there is NO avoiding that fact.. he is just gonna have to get up. And i am sure if he can things will be ok. Heck Chicago made the NFC champ game and they gave up 10 sacks to the Giants!!!!…
You have a right to complain about Backus and it sure would be nice if we had Jake long… but please keep it in perspective…please!
how much differently
would fans perceive Backus if the hit by Peppers did not result in an injury? That play is etched into the minds of us fans because it took out our franchise qb, which in turn made most Lions fans peeeesed at Backus.
Did you guys see the size of that chicken?
Backus really did not give up that many sacks last year.
You can find a bad play in the highlight reels for any left tackle in the league. You can’t cherry pick plays and expect to have any credibility in judging a player. Hell, I can put together a reel of plays where Calvin Johnson drops the ball or fumbles, or gets jammed and make you think he is the worst player in the league. But it would be a lie, just like taking one or two bad plays concerning Backus are a lie as well.
by TuffLynx on Aug 6, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Those bad plays, and trust me it's more than 1 or 2 is part of a bigger problem.
Backus cannot compete physically with todays pass rushers. He is too slow and he knows it. He’s gotta see Ju P twice a year, then so many teams run 3-4 today. Just too much speed for the guy coming around the corner. I’m not one of those guys who thinks he’s the worst Lt in the NFL. I’m just saying the guy doesn’t fit for this team. It’s a passing league, we’re definitely a passing team and we need a guy who is a more consistent pass blocker. Jeff is more of a road grader type of tackle.
by fiendishdr.wu on Aug 6, 2011 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Stats tell another Story friendishdr.wu
sacks and pressures Backus has be alittle above middle of the road… he isn’t all pro… but until someone can wave a wand and make a better tackle appear then he is who we have… and by the way he was pretty much the best left tackle in the NFC north…
True
Over 2 guys who were recently cut and the Bears left tackle right? Seriously, that’s not not complete sarcasm, was Mckinnie the LT for Minnie last year? If so……..yeah lol
by fiendishdr.wu on Aug 6, 2011 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Like i said....
Backus isn’t all world. But complaining about him when there isn’t a better option (proven option) on the roster does what again? He isn’t all pro but he isn’t trash either…he is just over average Left tackle…but i can’t look at that ONE time that he was beat and think “wow fire him”…. your listening to NFL network. Warren Sapp really isn’t looking at the facts…. as Tufflynx said… anyone can look at a highlight of bad plays and scream foul. Just so happen that his bad play resulted in Stafford getting hurt….. Would you rather he play behind the Bears Oline and get sack 10 times?……hmm …ok. All i am saying is.. it isn’t a perfect OL but it is far FAR from the worst
I never said it was the worst
Or that Jeff was the worst. I’m also aware that Joe Thomas and Jake Long don’t fall from the sky. I’m just hoping Fox can play his way into the starting job. If not we need to start looking for a replacement better suited to do what we ask of LTs in this pass happy offense.
by fiendishdr.wu on Aug 6, 2011 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, and if Fox plays because Backus is hurt and Stafford gets creamed again
you will be ranting about that too. Like I said, you are making much ado about nothing and at some point it just flat comes down to Stafford taking a hit. How many starting QBs took no sacks at all last season? I can tell you right now the answer is ZERO! You are just expecting too much from our LT and not expecting enough from Stafford.
expecting enough from Stafford.
How can anyone, as a fan, expect anything more from him at this point? He has proven one thing in his time here. He gets hurt. That places a higher priority on the play of the O line and the Ts in particular.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
Didn’t the rest of the NFC coaches and staff vote Backus one of the best at his craft in our division last season? I remember reading about that somewhere possibly heard it on 97.1 for whatever its worth.
sacks given up by player 2010
Lions Stephen Peterman 4
Lions Corey Hilliard 1
Lions Dominic Raiola 1
Lions Jahvid Best 1
Lions Jeff Backus 1
Lions Rob Sims 1
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/10/15/o-line-em-up-sacks-allowed-stats-for-each-and-every-team/
You used stats from only a partial season, but your point is still correct...
Here are the stats from the full season…
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/01/oline-em-up-falcons-sam-baker-struggles/
Stephen Peterman 5
Jeff Backus 3.5
Dominic Raiola 3
Jahvid Best 2
Rob Sims 2
Maurice Morris 1.5
Corey Hilliard 1
Tony Scheffler 1
Brandon Pettigre 0.5
Gosder Cherilus 0.5
Now let’s compare that against some guys that are considered to be very good left tackles, and guys that have been mentioned as replacements for Backus…
Sebastian Vollmer 1
Jason Peters 1.5
D’Brikishaw Ferguson 2.5
Joe Thomas 3.5
Jake Long 4
Donald Penn 4
Tyson Clabo 4.5
Ryan Clady 5
Michael Oher 6
Jordan Gross 6
David Diehl 7.5
Matt Light 9
The list I gave you includes Michael Oher because people still claim we should have taken him over Pettigrew to replace Backus. It also includes every Pro Bowl and AP All Pro tackle from the last two seasons. As you can see the sack numbers for Backus only trail Sebastian Vollmer (who is a right tackle), Jason Peters, and D’Brickashaw Ferguson. Even then, Backus only trailed Ferguson by one sack, so they were comparable.
We talk about guys like Joe Thomas and Jake Long as the best in the business, but Backus gave up fewer sacks than either of them last season.
There are a lot of folks that are still hatin’ on Backus because frankly, they are not looking at the facts. Some of you laughed when Jim Schwartz said he had a Pro Bowl caliber season, but the facts are that he had better numbers than either Jordan Gross or Tyson Clabo, who were the starters.
If you want to keep hatin’ on Backus just go right ahead, that is your right, but you are ignoring the facts to do it.
Dont suppose you have a sack per number of snaps stat handy?
I mean if your gonna to break out the ugly stick on ‘em, thump them good, Tuff. Im pretty sure Jeff played every offensive snap of every offensive series over 16 games and he gave up three and one half sacks….and thats not good enough?…Ive heard of tough crowds before, but thats just ridiculous. Its very difficult for me to understand why instead of being happy that there was finally a real honest to God NFL caliber guard lining up next to Jeff, for the first time in his career, they instead decide to scapegoat his ass. I must say, even Bear and Raven fans probably wouldn’t bitch about a 16 game starter giving up less than one sack every four games.
"Common Sense, isn't" Solomon Short
by YpsilantiJeff on Aug 6, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget Yps
Backus only faces J.Allen, J Peppers and who ever GB sends off the corner twice a year. And those first 2 guys area talked about as 2 of the best DE’s in the game.
How many lumps you want Doc?
Thanks TL my bad didnt completely read into that lol but thanks for the ext. I don’t really think backus is that horrible either, he’s constantly talked about for his consistency and honestly thats really alot for us.Prime ex. the bears, look at the amount of sacks cutler took last year and then think about mr.backus and how “horrible” our oline was.
Great info!!
That O line situation is taken care of if you ask me. Only issue I see is Peterman.
Football isn't a contact sport; it's a collision sport. Dancing is a contact sport.--Vince Lombardi
Hill's broken arm was not on Backus
I saw the play. Hilll got off the pass, a Giant defender came in from the right and crawled on his hands and knees to grab Hill. Hill didn’t even go to the ground, he fell forward onto his hands.
It was a knee tackle and it should have been a penalty.
Just one more case of the NFL not respecting the Lions players as much as other team’s players.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
I agree, it's like open season on the Lions by the refs
It makes me wonder if it’s something that goes against all recently “bad” teams. I’d be curious to see if teams like the Raiders, Bills, Browns etc fans feel the same way. There were multiple long plays negated by phantom holding or clipping flags. And then the infamous Calvin TD over-ruled call was the most egregious blown call of the NFL year. I hope that crap ends this year.
by WestsideLionsFan on Aug 5, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Over all these long years of watching the NFL
I will swear on the souls of my non existent children that as much as Ive seen Dallas and Green Bay get the sweetest, finest home cooked calls a Lions fan could never imagine, it pales in the face of the outright buggery, Deliverance style, practiced on the Lions and their fans by those same refs. I cant believe the NFL hates on Detroit. It just doesnt pass the smell test. At the same time, I have no clue why we get hammered so badly. But hammered we get. And all you Pollyanna’s can pound sand on this one.
"Common Sense, isn't" Solomon Short
by YpsilantiJeff on Aug 5, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Some of our hatred to the NFL and the refs
has to be attributed to our long suffering and pain soaked memory. I can not believe that the NFL would intentionally drop bombs on our team just because its our team, The Lions.
That said. The refs can eat a ….
Well, yeah.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
The only possible thing Ive ever come up with concerns the fact
that we simply do not have any kind of ownership presence to speak of. We are simply grazers that meander with the herd. Thus, perhaps, we get the new crews, lower graded crews and I want to know if the booth ref is a traveling member of the crew or does the league trot them out separately to the game.
"Common Sense, isn't" Solomon Short
by YpsilantiJeff on Aug 5, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
That is changing
After the process call against Calvin Johnson last season, Bill Ford Jr called the commissioner and complained strenuously. The process call was a black eye to the NFL and that is why the owners revisited it this past off-season. While they did not remove the rule, they were more explicit about how it should be applied. It is meant to be applied to a receiver that catches a ball while they are in the air, not a guy that takes two steps with the ball before they fall down.
Did anybody notice...
how the Lions finally got calls to start going their way after two things happened.
1. Visanthe Shiancoe tweeted this statement “.Lions get the short end of the stick alot.. i wonder whats really going on.”
2. The Lions opened up their field to the displaced Vikings.
After these two events, plays started to seem to go the Lions way. Case in point, the offensive pass interference call against the Bucs that the league later said shouldn’t have been offensive pass interference. If this game was a month earlier, I don’t think that call would have been made on the field, wrong or right.
LITTLE MAN IN BACKFIELD! LITTLE MAN IN BACKFIELD! GO STEFAN LOGAN!
by BBlades on Aug 5, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know, when I watch that video of K2 vs CC Brown
I see a lot of pushing going on. To me, it looks like a close call at the very least. Yet the NFL issues an apology for that and not for the Calvin debacle?
It almost seems like what the NFL was actually trying to say with the apology is “Sorry that we didn’t screw the Lions”
by WestsideLionsFan on Aug 5, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it had more to do with how much it affected the playoff sphere.
I know the entire year plays into playoffs, but that week led to the Pack winning the Super Bowl.
Part of the "Learning how to win" the Schwartz speaks of
Is also learning how to play within the rules. Learning what you can get away with and what you can’t. I think part of our 4 game winning streak had to do with that very fact. As the season progressed the players stopped making stupid mistakes, penalties and questionable calls.
I think it bodes well for this year that the players have crossed that treshhold. I expect a much more disciplined squad on both sides of the ball. That is not to say I hope the defense pulls back, on the contrary I hope they rip peoples heads off, just in a more controlled way.
Quite correct as concerns pre snap and personal fouls
but that has nothing to do with Lions defensive lineman getting their asses hauled down play after play at Lambeau. Or our receivers getting molested by the Packs corners. Or all the offensive holding calls on no one that we consistently seem to pick up. Or the horrendous, terrifying fumble calls we get…on both sides of the ball.
"Common Sense, isn't" Solomon Short
by YpsilantiJeff on Aug 6, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Last I knew
they have not changed the Calvin Johnson rule, unfortunately.
Did you guys see the size of that chicken?
yes, and no
They did not change the rule, because it is still needed in situations where the receiver is diving to catch a ball. They did clarify to the referees how it should be applied, however. The problem with the process rule was that it was misapplied to Calvin and never should have been used. When you take two steps, fall on your butt and turn over to get up, you have already demonstrated possession of the ball.
Yes, it was a tackle below the knees
and I thought it should have been a penalty too, except that I expect that because Hill didn’t go to the ground it wasn’t called.
So be it. There is a truism that the bad teams don’t get the calls because the refs expect them to be bad. That may be true with the Lions now, for example, the two crock chop block calls against Peterman in the Jets game and the crock horse collar call against Suh in the Dallas game, all of which were called bad by the league office. It’s up to the Lions to prove that they’re not bad enough to deserve the bad calls. They have to demonstrate that they’re good enough to overcome bad calls.
Don't forget that DPI against Levy in the Pats game.
If I had something in my hand at the time, I would’ve had to replace my tv.
by fiendishdr.wu on Aug 6, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I know that wasn't on Backus
I just didn’t wanna get into all the other proclems on the line cough Dom, Peterman cough. That’s why I said we need to clean the line up, but it starts with Sackus.
by fiendishdr.wu on Aug 6, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
The worst part of the line *is* the middle
so why start with Backus?
Because he protects the teams greatest investment.
Or at least that’s what he’s supposed to do.
by fiendishdr.wu on Aug 6, 2011 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I see...
So you would have replaced Anthony Munoz as well every time he lets the QB get sacked? I will repeat, every LT gives up some sacks. You cannot focus on just that and get a wild hair.
Yeah
Cuz Jeff Backus has shown himself to be in Anthony Munoz’ league. They’re getting Jeff’s bust ready right now.
by fiendishdr.wu on Aug 6, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
All I'm saying is compete.
Anthony Munoz would’ve been on his feet getting his hands on a guy rather than laying on his belly watching the sack after a weak ass cut block attempt. When you know you don’t have any help as drgarnett pointed out, why not do something different?
by fiendishdr.wu on Aug 6, 2011 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah about that Fien
If Dom wasn’t pushed so far back on almost every play, Staff and comp could actually move up in a pocket. 2: If mighty mouse could actually open a hole up inside a running game would stop all that pass rushing.And imagine if we had a run game then we could run play-action. Bye Bye to all that pass rushing.
How many lumps you want Doc?
So can we officially
say the Bllard project is over? Don’t get me wrong…I’d love to have him and CJ on the field at the same time, but sounds like he’s not close to being on the same level as even the backups right now. PS maybe?
Jim Schwartz said that Ballard
still has a very very long way to go. He has impressive physical skills, but he is struggling to learn the Lions offense. We need to look at him as a very long shot to make the roster, but probably a good bet to make the PS.
I wouldn't be surprised
If he gets on PSquad and after a year gets on the roster in 2012 or if he really improves he might get pulled up during the season
by Shady313 on Aug 6, 2011 1:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Honestly guys lol... i don't think you can make a case for roster spots based on that.
the Head Coach just watched the same 5 wideouts and the same 4 db play for a week. He prolly wanted to see the other guys that are allowed to practice. I mean his job is to prepare to play ..not train a UDFA how to play. …with that being said… i think the coach knows Ballard won’t make it to the practice squad if he is cut. So like they do with NFL draft stratego they talk players down in the event they want to try to do that route… i think you will get a better sense of things after the 2nd preseason game… right now it is more about starters and figuring out what we have….i am sure reps will look different from day to day.
You could be right.
It is too early to tell at this point and like you said, all we can do is wait to see how it all plays out.
OMFG!
Just cut F-ing Raiola I freaking hate him so much!
Go check out the Datsyukian Deke , Detroit Red Wings Blog
http://datsyukiandeke.wordpress.com/
just about had it with Raiola
And his underwhelming play…and his overwhelming attitude. He should be grateful he’s still on the roster.
That goddamn Okra and beans got you Oprah in jeans. Seems to me a little lean cuisine, wouldn't hurt much- Agh don't touch! -Obie Trice
by Skylar on Aug 6, 2011 4:04 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I gotta ask
Will the fans rejoice more over Millens firing or Dom being replaced? It’s a toughy for me.
How many lumps you want Doc?
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