"Lack of run game" POLL
by n4ry4 on Sep 27, 2011 5:56 PM EDT
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I wish I could post a poll in the comments section of this excellent discussion going on about our run game (or lack thereof) and whether it's even necessary because of how strong our pass offense is and how creative Linehan can be with our pass game and all our weapons.
But I do want to poll for an aggregate of the opinions at PoD on the matter. Please feel free to say so if these answers suck or don't cover all points of view effectively.
So, looking ahead to the rest of the season, how much does Stafford have to hand the ball off, and how productive does it have to be when he does?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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We dont need a steller run game
But we need one
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This will bite us in the ass later in the season if they don't figure it out now
I have always stood behind saying Best is a scat back at best and should get 15-20 touches a game, not carries.
Now if Harrison is that guy to carry the ball or Williams they better find out quick, I’d lean toward Williams…
I would want a two to one ratio of passes to runs.
By the end of the season we will be averaging around four yards per carry.
Let’s not get bent out of shape so early.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
I agree with that.
roughly 2 passes per run and an average around 3 yards per carry when we do run. That is what we need to succeed. Look at it this way. The Lions average about 8.4 yards per pass. If you can get three yards on a run play then you need to only one complete pass in the next two plays to move the chains. Since the Lions complete over 67% of their passes, that is going to happen the majority of the time, by far. Every once in a while you take a shot down the field to stretch the defense vertically as well. That is the formula that was used by the 49ers to win championships. It is the formula that is used by the Patriots to win. Green Bay and New Orleans use that formula.
Run heavy teams are ancient history. In the modern NFL you have to be able to pass the ball first, but you have to run enough to keep the defense honest.
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
I would have voted for....
something in-between options 3 and 4, but I voted for the 3rd option.
With our passing game, I don’t think we need to be a top 10 rushing team. That said, we have to run the ball and we need to be relatively productive when we do so. The Vikings game was not an accepting outing for the run game. We must do better than that or we won’t get far into the postseason, I think.
I also think that I would MUCH rather have a stellar passing game versus a stellar running game… if I had to choose to build one over the other. This league is built for scoring points and the passing attack and because we fit that mold, we should be able to go toe-to-toe with any team in the league. If we had a weaker defense, I would also feel less confident in winning games because we would have to pace ourselves more. Now, as long as the passing game is clicking, we can just go for the throat on every drive and not worry about TOP or running down the clock.
At the end of the day, I would love for our run game to be a lot better, but the truth is that we will still win a lot of games until we get one. The offensive line definitely is in need of an overhaul next year… that, I think we are all in agreement on. Right?
Most definitely.
Wars are only truly won through annihilation of the enemy. May our coaches remember that football is war.
by Lionsrmycrack on Sep 27, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno about the O Line overhaul.
Depends what you mean by that. I could see the following;
1. Draft the best Center available. The kid from Ohio State is supposed to be the cream of the crop. And start to work him into the line up part way through the year.
2. Left Tackle – Backus will probably still be starting but we need to aggresively develop a legitimate replacement. Culbreath or Fox? And get him on the field.
3. Right Tackle – look at the free agents available and get a veteran for a two year stop gap…..if Hilliard or Gosder don’t cut it the rest of the year.
4. Guards – leave as is.
I am assuming we will be drafting in the high twenties or low thirties, right?
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
I think that Backus could be a good right tackle for a couple of years.
His problems are almost exclusively with elite speed rushers and you see more of those going against the left tackle than you do the right tackle. I am serious that when the Lions replace Backus, the fans are going to get a ruse awakening. They just do not understand that finding a better player to replace him is not just hard, it is damned hard. I am so glad that fan pressure does not dictate anything that Mayhew and Schwartz do, because of they listened to this stuff, they would rush Fox into the position and wreck him.
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
I agree with you.
Personally, I think Mayhew chose Fox thinking he might be able to be Backus 2.0 if he could overcome the injuries he came to the NFL with. Same general attributes as Backus.
I think Culbreath is being looked at as Right Tackle material. But he looks to be a player who may not contribute until 2013.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
by NorthLeft12 on Sep 28, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
also agree
"Lakers in 4, Pistons cant score" - NBA Analysis. Jokes on you!
"In Mayhew we trust"
Thank you Kris Draper and Chris Osgood for all the memori
I believe it should be around 32nd
"My grandma could play behind that line!"- Zack Follett
Random thought....
Whats everyone’s opinion on Steve Slaton?
Just got cut…
probably not too good i realize – but he did well
not a power runner obviously but – could help especially if momo not fully healthy
"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day." ~ Calvin (C & H)
Agreed
He got that first down last week by just lowering his shoulder and bullrushing the line. Only picked up a yard or two, but it was effective for what we needed.
by Suhper Megatron on Sep 28, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
picked up by dolphins but...
i’d have him over Harrison any day of the month
"Lakers in 4, Pistons cant score" - NBA Analysis. Jokes on you!
"In Mayhew we trust"
Thank you Kris Draper and Chris Osgood for all the memori
We don't need to have a run game
If we want to get are QB killed that we can just pass on every down. I mean I understand pass first offense is the way now. We need a run game to protect Matt, Control the clock, and to battle the harsh elements of the NFC north. It also helps if you can keep the defense guessing and the wonderful thing called play action.
Champions aren´t made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them: a desire, a dream, a vision -Muhammad Ali
PCP 4 LIFE
We're #1 in the league in TOP through three weeks.
Why do we need a run game to control the clock?
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
I disagree with the idea of battling the elements in the NFC North with running.
Seriously, when the weather is nasty and it is hard to keep your footing, you have to pass. Running backs cannot make cuts to avoid the defense so all they have to do is take good angles and the running back is dead meat. Blockers cannot get traction to maintain blocks either. Meanwhile the defensive line cannot get off the ball as fast because of the poor footing so the pass rush suffers. The way to win a bad weather game is to have a good quick passing game.
The Lions play at least nine games every season in a dome (8 in Ford Field and one in the Metrodome), so weather is not an issue there. The only bad weather sites are Chicago and Green Bay and we play them at their stadium early in the season about half the time. So the bad weather games only come into play for two games every other season for certain. I don’t think that bad weather games happen often enough to build your team around it.
You have a very valid point about having to run enough to keep the other team honest. That is why I prefer a 2:1 pass to run ratio. But all you need is about 3 yards per carry to be effective enough for the passing game to work. The main thing is just to avoid losing yards on your runs. Based on 70 offensive plays per game, that means that we will only see about 24 runs per game. It also means that getting only about 70 yards rushing per game is acceptable.
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
Part of the benefits of having a QB with a rocket launcher arm and super tight spiral is that you can pass in the wind anyways.
It’s the QBs who throw fluttering spirals who have the most issues with bad weather [high winds]. When it is wet, cold, and slippery, you should still be able to pass. In some cases more effectively because of the larger impact on the defence.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
by NorthLeft12 on Sep 28, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I am very much in agreement with you assessment of what is needed in the run game
I would be happy if we could depend on 50 yards in a game with an average of 2.5, then occasionally have the 100+ yard game with a higher average (most likely due to an explosive play or two). If you can rely on that I think it is sufficient to keep the defense honest and hopefully pick up some short yardage first downs and score on goal line runs.
Exactly how I am thinking.
I wouldn’t complain if the running backs break the occasional big run either. That is a bonus in my book.
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
This is why we drafted Leshoure, he was not necessarly a for sure draft win, but his role would have been to get that or 4 or 5 yard carry and break one every now and then.
"We’re looking to improve this team every day, every week, every month until we get to our ultimate goal, which is to win a championship. We have a long way to go," Lions general manager Martin Mayhew
I don't know much about LeShoure
But he reminds me a little of Laurence Maroney in his prime in both his skill set and role on the team
Not at all, think more like a poor mans SJax
Leshoure has good speed and feet for a big back. He is also extremely good in passing routes and pass protection. Pretty much he is an every down back, someone that can do it all. Though I think the Lions would rather not use him that way, he is built to handle that.
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
I voted for the 3rd down,
but I believe that a good dose of screens and TE usage is vital for us, also.
Did you guys see the size of that chicken?
A lot of these votes are going to change when the weather does
Mark it down.
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Yep, it's gonna be hard to pass in Ford Field when the weather changes.;-)
OK, let’s get real here.
We play in Denver on October 30th, probably too early for snow, though it is not unheard of in Denver at that time of the year. Either way, we don’t play Denver often enough to build a team around it.
We play in Chicago on November 13th That is not usually late enough in the season for a snow game, though it might be chilly. No guarantee that weather will be much of a factor here either.
We play in New Orleans on December 4th, don’t think we have to worry about snow there, do you?
We play in Oakland December 12th, Snow game? Not so much..
We play in Green Bay on New Years Day. Yes, there could be snow. Yes it will be cold. Yes, there might be snow. I guess we will just have to pit the Green Bay passing game with little running against our Detroit passing game with little running. Isn’t it funny how a team that plays in crappy weather so much does not build its team around a running game? Does that tell you something?
All the rest of our games are in Ford Field and I don’t think we have to worry much about weather there.
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
by TuffLynx on Sep 27, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
maybe you should actually watch a game of our main
divisional opponent before you try to represent what they do and do not have. GB is 10th in the league in rushing per game right now. We are 28th. So, yeah. Their running game is not a liability. It is in fact an asset. Unlike ours. Talk about a false sense of security.
Two of the four teams we play in our division have out door stadiums in areas well known for miserable late season weather. Building a team that does not have a capable running game in the NFC North is a joke. You can not argue that point. Mayhew has not only spent high draft picks at the RB position, he has traded up two seasons in a row to do it. He knows all too well how valuable a legitimate running game is in our division.
I just can’t believe the blind homerism around here. Like I said, come late season, people’s opinions will change about this.
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by joshsun on Sep 27, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Gotta agree with you here Josh...
I just don’t think it’s as desperate as your making it out to be. But somewhere down the road, like next season, the line issues will be addressed.
I didn’t like the RB’s drafted before the line rebuild either, but what ya gonna do?
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
I am not making it out to be anything more than it is
Late in the season, we will have a harder time winning games if we can’t find a running game. mark it down. Remind me of this statement when we are playing in GB game 16. When the snow and ice is severely hampering our passing game. Remind me of how I am making too much out of it then. When a win is the difference between the playoffs or even a division title.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
Don't worry, I will remind you! :-)
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
Dont worry, I will be here reminding you.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
Josh...the point is
This is just an old debate that should of been addressed the last two drafts and they chose to do it in a different manner.
I could say that our position have been vindicated with the injury to Leshoure and us now still not have an inside ground game.
My point is it’s too late now and no one expect us to be 3 and 0. So we just have to roll the dice with what we have, trust that they can hide some of our weaknesses with creative play calling, and just enjoy the season and growth in this team.
Bitching about it now when their 3 and 0 is silly unless you expected then to get to the Super Bowl this season. Which I don’t think you really expected.
Just trust them now.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
by delusional on Sep 28, 2011 5:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with what you are saying here 100%
What did I say in my post?
A lot of these votes are going to change when the weather does
Mark it down
Shit weather will make these votes change. People are riding a high off of being 3-0 and refuse to see anything that is not rainbows and blow jobs. Cool, good for them.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
Does Lambeau have a heated field?
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
by delusional on Sep 28, 2011 5:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sure they do.
Soldier field is the POS though.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
by delusional on Sep 28, 2011 5:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I am less worried about the field condition
than I am about ball grip. The passing game relies on grabbing the ball firmly to make accurate passes and catching those balls out of the air. Take a frozen ball, slicked up with snow and ice and expect to have our high flying passing attack. I am not seeing it. Also, before someone goes all other way with it. I am not expecting our passing game to grind to a halt either. I just do not believe it will be able to carry us on its own.
In prime conditions like we are playing in now, I am more than thrilled with our offensive balance. As I have said before, down the road it is not going to suffice.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
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The NFL puts a clean ball on the field for every play.
It is just not as much of an issue as you make it out to be. If it were, then Green bay would not build a pass first team.
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
Bottom Line, Jim Schwartz knows first hand just how much a passing game is effected in the snow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvkuQh3WjHk
Ndamukong Suh - Bringing 50's football back to Motown!
three fumbles in 1:15 second of highlights
yeah, I think running the ball is a good idea in bad weather.
BTW, we do not have Brady and Moss.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
Well, we do have a connection that's on pace to shattered Brady-to-Moss's single season TD record.
So I’d say by the end of the season we’ll know if that rings true — or if we’ll be saying the 2007 Patriots didn’t have Stafford and Calvin.
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
shater.
My verb tenses are jacking up.
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
And my spelling.
Shatter.
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
agreed
and I believe Calvin has enough talent to break Moss’ record.
I am not ready to put Stafford on the same level as Brady yet. YET.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
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Does he need to be on the same level?
All he needs to do is throw TD passes to do it. Stafford can do that as well as anyone in the league, Brady included.
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
I'm beginning to believe that, I'm just having a hard time saying it.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
I am not sure I agree with that
He still has to prove he can last a full season without being injured.
He still has to prove he can play at this high of a level with a full season of wear and tear piling up on him.
He looks to be the real deal but suggesting we know the answer to either of these questions is silly. We don’t and until we do, we are jut guessing and hoping.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
Stafford has the capability to throw a touchdown as well as anyone in the league.
This is a fact. Obviously he needs to be healthy to throw touchdowns, but Brady can’t throw touchdowns on the sideline either, so that’s moot.
And if you doubt he can still throw touchdowns when wear and tear piles up, Cleveland game in his rookie year? C’mon now, this kid is tough as nails. If it ain’t killing him, he’s throwing strikes.
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
One stellar game
where he was injured on the next to last play does not demonstrate his ability to endure punishment for an entire season.
Brady has proven he can last full seasons by doing it all but once in his 10 year career (or is it 9?).
Stafford has not.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
Hes taken quite a few hits already this season whether they were after the play or not hes been knocked around.While i understand where you are coming from he wont be able to remove the “label” until he makes it through the season i dont understand the doubts.If he keeps on pace like he is right now dude will be a stud. Hes gonna have off games but so does brady I.E. last sunday
responding to Michael
A couple hits in one game do not make a season. It is the accumulation of hits that break a players body down game after game after game. Those change a players mechanics. Those make it harder to move in the pocket.
That kind of stuff.
LETS BE CLEAR HERE. I AM NOT BASHING STAFFORD. I am just saying, he needs to prove it for a full season or two before we enshrine him as elite and on the same level as Brady ect al.
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
You certainly could see where given that extra 1/2 second against the Vikes.
He had no problem at all just shredding their secondary. just give this kid a second and he’s about as good as anyone in the league.
Homerism? I don’t think so.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Responding to Delusional, Honestly
I am stunned at his play so far. He is showing everything you want from a QB. LOVE IT. No homo
He still has to prove he can keep it up with the wear and tear of a full season piling up on his body and last that full season.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
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Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
I know what your saying.
Because I’m ready to lay out some serious manlove on the kid but have been trying hard to hold back due to the experience/injury thing.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Delusional
I think he has a great opportunity ahead. He has a chance to become a Demi-god in detroit. I hope he can do it.
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
This is from the famous Ice Bowl game between the Packers and Cowboys.
This game is notorious in NFL history as being the worst playing conditions of any game in history. The final drive that gave the Packers the win is described like this on Wikipedia…
In what could be their last offensive drive, the Packers took over possession with 4:50 left in the game.37 The wind chill around −70°F / −57°C,38 (or −50°F / −46°C)39 Starr led his team down the field with three key completions: a 13-yard pass to Dowler, a 12-yarder to running back Donny Anderson, and a 19-yard throw to fullback Chuck Mercein. Then Mercein ran 8 yards to a first down on the Cowboys’ 3-yard line on the next play. Twice Anderson attempted to run the ball into the end zone, but both times he was tackled at the 1-yard line, the second time after his footing failed on the icy field. By then the thermometer read twenty below zero.
I would like you to note, even in an age where many teams primarily ran the ball, the Packers had to pass in order to get down the field. In those days the players didn’t have the type of gloves they have now to be able to catch the ball. In fact, all of the touchdowns in the game, prior to the final one, were from passing plays.
Once again, I am going to unequivocally say that you are simply wrong when you say that running the ball is necessary in bad weather games.
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
OK, I would like to rephrase that last part.
Once again, I am going to unequivocally say that you are simply wrong when you say that PRIMARILY running the ball is necessary in bad weather games. Yes, you will need to run some, but no more than any other game.
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
First, I am not saying we need to be a primary run team to succeed
in bad weather. How the hell do you get that statement from what I have said?
Second, we will have to run better than we are now in bad weather. That is my point.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
Tell me something...
is it the lack of a running between the tackles that’s bothering you with them using Best to do it, or is it the complete running game as a whole?
I just feel their stubborn in using Best between the tackles, where if they got away from that our mysteriously shitty running game would disappear.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
I ain't even mad at Best between the tackles.
I’m mad at between the guards runs. At least when you’re trying to run him off tackle he can bounce it outside easier, I hate having to see him run 10 yards in one direction just to get out from behind a stonewall of blockers.
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
My concern is based on Best. Our most effective runner.
He is what I call a scat back. Best (no pun) in space where he can use his speed, change of direction and vision to hurt the other team. He has been our best (no pun) runner to date.
His style of running has not exactly had a great history of success in bad weather. Saint Barry anyone? If mother nature takes away our best (no pun) runner by making his style of running less effective. What happens then?
Do we turn to Momo? I am probably his biggest fan and I am not sure he would do that well in bad weather either. He would probably do better than Best, as he is a “hit the hole and run” player, but how much?
How about K Will? Ok, this could be his chance to step it up. Bruising backs who run down hill transition better to bad weather running. He seems to have decent patience behind the line (limited touches so not too sure on this). Letting the blocks evolve in front of him before he barrels into the line would be GREAT!
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
We will be.
We just have to give Kieland Williams time to get integrated into the offense.
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
He is my lone glimmering hope here
The only back we have built for that kind of weather. I just hope he can evolve into something more than he has shown in the past to be.
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
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nah...
I don’t think that game in GB will mean anything.
We’ll be resting our starters for the playoffs.
;)
"Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live it's whole life believing that it is stupid"
-Albert Einstein
lmao
yeah
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
Um, they didn't win the Super Bowl this year. At least, not yet.
They won the Super Bowl LAST season. In that season they finished 24th in rushing with barely 100 yards per game. Guess who finished just above them? Yep, the Lions. So you are still mixing apples and oranges because I am talking about championship teams and we don’t know that Green Bay will win it this year. For all we know, their newly found running game could be what costs them the championship because they go to it in critical situations and it fails them. We shall see.
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
we are 28th right now with under 80 yards a game
Also, If I remember correctly, the GB running game struggled for much of the season (after losing Grant) until they pulled that horse RB out of their hat late in the season. So finishing as well as they did is a testament to the improvement they had late in the season.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
OK, but our running game improved late in the season as well.
There isn’t anything that says we won’t do that again.
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
I also simply disagree that the running game is what you need in bad weather.
I have seen passing teams do quite well in bad weather. Go take a look at the recent monsoon game between Jacksonville and Carolina. What you will see is when the rain was at its worst and the field was very slippery, it was the passing game that allowed teams to move the ball. The only touchdowns in the game were scored on passes.
Once again, when footing is bad, the running backs can’t make cuts. All the defense has to do is take good angles and the running backs are done. You will not see many long runs in these types of games. Going to a running game is just saying that you are going to slog it out and try to win the game on field goals. Because as the field shrinks and the defense compresses you cannot run the ball any more.
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
I agree, like I said I don't think that it's super critical thing at the moment this year.
In a perfect world you want to option to be able to control the ball on the ground, we just don’t have that this season and will have to live with that fact.
I’m not going to get my panties all twisted in a knot of this fact at this point in time. I was pissed during the draft over trading up for another RB and ignoring that line once again, but now we just have to live with what we have.
I agree, offenses don’t come to a grinding halt in GB in DEC.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
by delusional on Sep 28, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rain is distinctly different than Ice and snow
Just saying.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
Hard to believe the blind negativism too.
Best is hardly a running back that you would build a traditional running attack around. His strength is as a receiver and a quick strike running option. That is why Mayhew moved up to get him; speed and very good hands. Another weapon for the arsenal.
I for one am not saying we don’t need to run at all, in fact, every NFL team runs the ball at least a third of the time over the season. And we will too. Probably for an average gain of around four yards per carry.
Stop over reacting over one game. A win at that.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
by NorthLeft12 on Sep 28, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
blind negativism huh?
Because I prefer to not turn a blind eye to an extremely important aspect of late season games that we lack?
If that is what you call it. cool.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
I am tired of reading your continued shots at the Lions and those fans who actually appreciate what they have done and what they can do well.
You continually bitch about what they don’t do well enough to suit you, predict doom and gloom if they don’t make the team over the way you think it should be, denigrate every team they play as lightweights and/or incompetents, and bitch constantly about the coaching staff [Schwartz in particular].
Really not sure what joy you get out of cheering for this team [and I don’t really care] but you are quickly establishing yourself as a one trick pony who can be counted on to immediately heap scorn on the Lions and any of their fans who see the positive side of their play.
But that is your privilege to state your views how you like, but I will also feel free to call it out for what it is….negative drivel.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
Awww. Is someone cranky?
Did I hit a nerve? Does the truth of what I say piss you off?
Wa Wa Wa! Sniffle…..
Directly quoted from myself above and earlier today.
In prime conditions like we are playing in now, I am more than thrilled with our offensive balance. As I have said before, down the road it is not going to suffice.
Oh yeah, its all negative. Your blatant team worship alters your views of not just my comments but of the true nature of our team.
This fan post was open for the discussion on the need for a running game and I commented my beliefs on that point. I stand by them. We need an improved run game as the year wears on or we will suffer.
Now on to the rest of your baseless comments.
You continually bitch about what they don’t do well enough to suit you, predict doom and gloom if they don’t make the team over the way you think it should be
Yup, that is called being a fan. You see faults and you bitch about them. How is this a surprise to you or anyone? Oh wait, if its not all rainbows and blow jobs, its not good enough for you.
denigrate every team they play as lightweights and/or incompetents
I can’t remember commenting on the quality of any of the teams we have played this year so far. I could start in on them but I will save that for another day. I am rather enjoying pointing out the obvious lies in your post for the time being.
and bitch constantly about the coaching staff [Schwartz in particular].
The only bitch I have had about Schwartz so far this season is about his level 13 spies like us information stream to fans and that has been a rare few times along with one instance debating his handling of Goz (which I disagree with). Perhaps you are heavily exaggerating because you really do not have any genuine remarks to denigrate me and decided to make some up.
Really not sure what joy you get out of cheering for this team [and I don’t really care]
I enjoy watching them play and win. Just like you. If you doubt that, that is not my problem. It is entirely yours. Deal with it.
but you are quickly establishing yourself as a one trick pony who can be counted on to immediately heap scorn on the Lions and any of their fans who see the positive side of their play.
And you have thoroughly established yourself as a lap dog puppy who wants nothing but to curl up on Schwartz’s lap for comfort.
BTW, I am thrilled with our 3 and 0 start, I am ecstatic with our defense so far (in particular the back 7 in coverage), I am loving Stafford and his improved durability and accuracy, Titus is a mini pimp, Grew really impressed me with his hands this last game, CJ is CJ…. A BEAST incomparable in the league.
I am worried about our O line, I am slightly worried about Suh’s production (even if I expected a drop off this year), Backus needs help more than he does not, The Goz worries me (along with Schwartz’s handling of him), our ground game worries me on both sides of the ball and finally, our slow starts scare me.
Those last two paragraphs, they are basically a summary of my posting on this site for the last couple weeks. You see that, they are my thoughts about our team good and bad. OMG! Wow! Its not all bad!
Oh wait, accepting that would be horrible for your BS post about me. You do not like my posts, skip them. There are plenty of other sunshine squad boys around here that want to blow rainbows up each others butts all day long.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
Are you just trolling now?
Is this just being posted to get a rise out of people?
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
Nope
I am not going to let anyone post bullshit for the sake of bullshit. His post was wrong on so many counts I had to dispute it.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
So why not focus on the good for a while?
BTW, I am thrilled with our 3 and 0 start, I am ecstatic with our defense so far (in particular the back 7 in coverage), I am loving Stafford and his improved durability and accuracy, Titus is a mini pimp, Grew really impressed me with his hands this last game, CJ is CJ…. A BEAST incomparable in the league.
We’ve had so much bad for so long, and we all know about the running game issues, with them sitting at 3 and 0 it just sounds like sour grapes to overly bitch about the bad at the moment, and over something that many not happen, like super bad weather down the road.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
I have
This thread is about people’s opinions on weather or now we need a running game. Which I think we do not at the moment but will late in the season.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
whether or not
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
There is a difference between not turning a blind eye and playing Chicken Little.
If we were losing games because of it I think it would have some legs. When you are winning every game it just sounds like “the sky is falling.”
I never met him, but he was family to me... R.I.P. Tom Kowalski We will all miss you.
That is exactly what I am talking about
It is not costing us games right now but I believe it will late in the season.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
I mean wow
Directly quoted from my initial post.
A lot of these votes are going to change when the weather does
Mark it down
Does it take a genius to extrapolate from that statement that I think we are ok now but will struggle if we do not run better late in the season?
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
What game could you possibly be talking about other then GB?
Are you talking about a playoff game?
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
GB and yes, playoff games
That GB game is starting to look (yes it is early) to potentially be a huge one for us.
Great scheduling on the part of the NFL. SB champs against the up and coming team of the division for last game of the Regular season. Has a chance to be something special.
Of course, it could end up being a “sit your starters” game for the pack (or us!) and mean a lot less. At the pace we are both keeping right now, I can easily see it coming down to that last game for a playoff spot for Detroit, or dare I say it, Division title?!?!?!
In my own convoluted way, I am bitching about our running game because I believe we have a chance to press the Pack for the division in that game (small chance but still) and I also believe we have a good chance at the wild card spot.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
BTW
Great Pike! in your profile pic.
Northern? I can’t quite make it out.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
That's a lake trout.
Check a map. I caught in through the ice in 7 feet of water where the river in Pinconning,MI flows into Saginaw Bay, on a stick where you can see them come in and hit your lure. Then you hand over hand them.
Pretty cool stuff.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Gorgeous fish
I see it now. Damn was I wrong.
I miss ice fishing. Hell, I just miss any sort of fishing.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
Thank you..
I don’t fish as much as I used to.
Or I don’t take it as seriously as I used to. If I catch something fine, if not, oh well. Enough of the combat fishing, I like peace and quite now.
Man I wish you guys could try some of my cooking. I just made a Thai shrimp soup. It’s awesome. Shrimp, and coconut milk, chili paste and lime and cilantro and tomatoes.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
That is how I fish now too
Cold beer and food and I am happy. If I land something, even better.
MMMmmm, sounds good.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It’s modern-day slavery, you know?" Adrian Peterson (AKA, The $11 million dollar slave)
Help Stop real slavery!
Adrian Peterson facing reality and trying to help!
Just change the pattern of runs.
Enough of the Best between the tackle experiment. Quick pitches to Best, quick out passes, run a few 2 back sets, KWill and MOMO up the middle, just quit the Best stuff and a lot of the concern will dissipate.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Agreed
Our team has the capability to run the ball. It will just take good scheming and playcalling. The o-line isn’t good enough to consistently shove it down team’s throats but the team will be able to run at least sometimes this year. If the passing attack can keep up this level of production or better, it won’t take much running at all to win.
voted #4 because you did not have a #5 which implies a 50% ratio, of run to pass.
Lions have ab explosive offense, can cover a lot of distance quickly. Some may think thats great, lets just pour it on, but in doing so your inviting the shoot outs & defensive breakdowns, that most teams structered like the current Lions dont need.
Managment knows that losing Lehoure is a bad break, everyone else should too. Lions need backs like I Johnson who gets skinny in a crease, outside of Best we are poorly structured for this OL Talents.
good points have been made here and throughout, but its just hard to believe anyone would Not want a run game…that idea is just absurd for so many reasons its hard to take anyone seriously saying it.
Grow with us, at QuantumCrops.com
#1
BUT, having an effective run game would certainly make it easier and less riskier…You have to admit that Stafford can overcome those obstacle though and still lead a successful offense without a run game. We’ve got dynamic YAC guys all over and a great safety net in Pettigrew and all of our backs…it’s doable, but not preferable.
The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.
Colts proved you don't need a great running game but...
Short yardage situations hurt them. I think we need the threat of an effective running game, but we also need to reality of a successful short yardage package that can get the job done when we need it.
I would have to see 9 doin a QB sneak on a regular basis.
I think option #3
We need a running game, but it doesn’t have to be a big factor. It would just be nice to have 2nd and 7’s instead of 2nd and 11’s.
I don't think you need a running game to win...
If you have a prolific passing offense, and the Lions certainly do, then you can win and be successful relying on that in various forms almost solely. I picked the first option. To force the defense to back off on blitzes use “rushing” pass plays like screens, short passes, etc.
The only caveat is that a running game is very nice to have when you are trying to hold a lead and run clock. Thats where a lot of “passing team’s” rushing yards come from.
In Every Climb and Place....
by PhoenicianPakFan on Sep 28, 2011 6:45 AM EDT reply actions
My thoughts on the run game:
In addition to the concerns voiced above, with no run game, I’m afraid of putting all our eggs in one basket so to speak.
Stafford has been pretty inconsistent going back to UGA. He’s been much better as a pro, especially this year, but just look at his performance in the first half against MIN. Some bad choices and some bad throws. You could tell he wasn’t playing well just by the look on his face on the sidelines. I remember wishing I was on the sidelines to make a joke or something to try to pull him out of that mire. Please don’t take this the wrong way. I love Stafford. I think he’s awesome. I’m not even that mad my wife has a huge crush on him. (Though she still thinks Best is hotter) I wouldn’t label him inconsistent but it happens sometimes. It happens to everybody. (Look at Brady in our preseason game. There were many other factors that went into it, but Brady was not the normal Brady in that game)
What I’m saying is there will be times when Stafford is not on his A- game. An extreme example is the Vick led Atlanta Falcons. That team won and lost entirely based on Vick’s performance. Of course, with a position like QB, it can be argued that the team will win and lose according to that person’s performance anyway, but I would like to hedge our bets a little bit.
With a decent run game, it takes pressure off of Stafford. Not only would it allow him to have a terrible half without going down 20-0, it will make it easier for him to get back in rhythm once he has fallen into the mire.
"Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live it's whole life believing that it is stupid"
-Albert Einstein
I think everyone is pretty much agreeing with each other, just saying in different ways
We all realize in a perfect world a run game is desirable, but for this year were just not going to have top notch run game, which leads some to believe that this is a critical failing in a year where anywhere from 8 and 8 to 10 and 6 was the general consensus, and not many expected a good shot at the playoffs.
We just have to ride out what we have and hope for a line upgrade next season, and nothing more then some tweaking in different ways this season, which still should be good enough to pass everyone’s expectations at the beginning of the year.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Thank you
LOL…..were just all beating this one around in circles.
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
Kwill
Use best how we have but let Kwill do the dirty work. The dude looks good when he’s out there and I think as i have said before given the chance could help make up for this lack of a run game. As many have said already I believe we just need a descent run game to slightly offset our passing arsenal.But i dont think our hopes for this season hinge on the run game.Hopefully we see some more Kwill and MOMO in the coming games.
I just dont know about MoMo
he can’t hang on to the ball. maybe the hand stil hurts? i sure hope so. other than that i agree
"Lakers in 4, Pistons cant score" - NBA Analysis. Jokes on you!
"In Mayhew we trust"
Thank you Kris Draper and Chris Osgood for all the memori
Just for conversation sake.
Called Pass Percentage, 2011 Season
Team Pass Pct
Bears 73.2%
Falcons 71.0%
Panthers 68.7%
Buccaneers 67.9%
Seahawks 67.0%
Saints 66.8%
Patriots 66.0%
Titans 64.6%
Colts 64.6%
Rams 64.3%
Jets 64.2%
Dolphins 63.4%
Chargers 62.9%
Broncos 62.6%
Cowboys 62.6%
Cardinals 62.2%
Steelers 61.9%
Packers 61.1%
Ravens 60.8%
Bengals 60.6%
Browns 60.1%
Lions 60.1%
Redskins 60.0%
Bills 58.9%
Eagles 57.3%
Vikings 55.0%
Chiefs 54.9%
Giants 53.4%
49ers 52.9%
Texans 50.0%
Raiders 46.5%
Jaguars 42.4%
NFL Avg 61.0%
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth
.Does your momma have a Big Ass like your head?
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