Evaluating The Detroit Lions Roster: Special Teams
by Sean Yuille on Sep 6, 2011 10:01 AM EDT
in Detroit Lions Analysis
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The Detroit Lions special teams unit experienced an unexpected change at one position. The other three positions aren't any different, but that doesn't mean things were completely uneventful.
Kicker: Jason Hanson
Hanson returned after having his 2010 season ended early due to an injury. He was facing the prospect of having his starting job taken by Dave Rayner, but Hanson stepped up his game and was perfect for the Lions. He made all eight of his field goal attempts and all eight of his extra point attempts during the preseason, showing the Lions that he still has it. He will begin his 20th season in the league on Sunday.
Punter: Ryan Donahue
When training camp opened, all eyes were on the competition at kicker. Nobody expected Donahue, an undrafted free agent from Iowa, to unseat Nick Harris. That's exactly what he did, though. Donahue showed enough to the coaches during the preseason to become the Lions' starting punter and holder, and he will begin his first season in the league on Sunday.
Long Snapper: Don Muhlbach
Unlike kicker and punter, there was absolutely no uncertainty at long snapper for the Lions this offseason. Muhlbach has been Mr. Consistent for the Lions for the last seven years, and he is back for his eighth season with the team this year.
Returner: Stefan Logan
Logan had an outstanding season last year and was a real game-changer for the Lions. The new kickoff rule could take him out of the game a bit this year, but its impact remains to be seen. Even if it does limit the damage Logan can do on kick returns, he will still have a chance to make things happen on punt returns and on kick coverage, where he made some plays last year by recovering fumbles.
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I think the Special Teams will be around tenth best in the NFL in 2011.
My only uncertainty is with the Punter/Holder Mark Donahue. I have to believe that the coaching staff would not endorse this move unless he has shown them that he can consistently do the job. I know it is just preseason, but he has looked very good. I think that he is a significant upgrade over Nick Harris as a punter. We will see how he does as a holder, although having a solid long snapper like Muhlbach should make the job easier.
I think you overlooked the coverage teams in this review. R. Davis and M. Stovall add two solid veterans to the punt and kick off coverage teams [although only one will likely suit up on Sundays], as well as Doug Hogue [again, if he plays] along with Coleman. The coverage groups looked pretty solid when I saw them in preseason, although I did hear of some breakdowns against the Bills.
I like what Logan can do for us on returns and Davis gives us some depth there too.
Anyone know if Kieland Williams played any special teams with the Skins? I wonder if he has any skills there as far as the coverage and return [blocking] teams.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
With his pass catch ability
I can see him on the hands team
Do you try to spell that fucked up on purpose?
by delusional on Nov 20, 2010 9:51 PM PST via mobile
I am glad we have an upgrade over Harris
My gut feeling was that many Lions fans were happy with his performance (that may be totally off-base however), but I never cared for him. He was not terrible, but never stood out in my mind. I do agree that the coverage unit is something to be optimistic about. Last year the return teams were good, but the coverage was inconsistent it seemed. By adding some good talent to the coverage, upgrading the punter, and having a healthy Hanson our ST units should be pretty solid.
breakdow against the Bills
was with mostly guys that got cut….our top ST guys weren’t in from what I could see.
The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.
Ive said it before and I will say it again
Ryan Donahue is our man. His consistency is unlike any other punter/kicker I can remember at Iowa. Iowa’s coach Kirk Ferentz said that he was the best punter he ever saw at college except for Reggie Roby (who gets credit for changing the direction of the Hawkeyes in the 80’s but thats a story for another board). Donahue started all four season as punter and holder and never missed a beat. Unlike a lot of these college guys he is also used to working in all weather conditions. This is our guy and I couldnt be happier about it. I thought Nick Harris was fantastic but this is the new upgrade and it was time to pull the trigger. Donahue can be our punter for the next 10 years if he can avoid injury. He does great things quietly and dont be shocked at how often this guy can flip a field for us.
thanks for the college insight
The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.
Right!
Thanks man, that is the kind of inside scoop we did not have about this kid before all of this happened. Knowing this, I am less surprised he took Harris’ place.
I like Wins, Cheese and I also Like Cookies. If you don't. Wow. :P
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I think the Special Teams will be around 2nd best in the NFL in 2011
The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.
That is quite a leap forward for this group.
The sports writer from Dallas [Gosselin] had them ranked around 20th in 2010, if I remember correctly. Not sure who else puts all the special teams results together to provide some kind of yard stick of achievement.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
I saw a ranking that had us third
with the stats they were using. Bear were 1st, can’t remember who was 2nd. Forgot the source of that…I know we struggled in punt coverage, but we were good in kick coverage and very good in both kick return and punt return. Plus our FGs were very good (and that won’t change with Hanson)
The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.
you also have to account for who we brought in
Davis was part of what made the Bears coverage team so good for those years. Stovall is very good in coverage. They add a lot to the pro bowlers (Eke and Wendling). Palmer is a big play waiting to happen and Logan will continue to be very solid. Coleman looked great on ST throughout the preseason. Thus my optimism.
The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.
We may have been third in our division.
Really, our coverage was not outstanding last year. The Redskin game especially showed our weakness. I recall more than a few good returns on punts and kickoffs.
Our return teams were pretty good, although Logan fair catches a little too often for my taste.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
not true
we were very good on kick coverage. That redskins game was an outlier – it also featured a number of our best STers out (Eke, Follett, someone I’m forgeting…)
The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.
According to Smitty, our punt coverage sucked.
From my fast fading memories of 2010, that jibes with what I recall. Dallas had a 97 yard punt return against us too.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
In all fairness...
That punt return was a fluke. It would have been a touchback, but Wendling made an amazing play to keep it alive inside the five, only to have it take a lucky bounce right to the Cowboy’s return man. THEN, to make matters worse, he stepped out of bounds during the return, but no replays were shown until after the PAT, so Schwartz and Co. didn’t challenge it.
It was just one of those plays.
I really like Football Outsiders' ST stats
They had the Lions as either 11th in the league (if you adjust for opponents) or 10th in the league (if you don’t).
They graded the Lions as solidly above average in FG/XP, kick returns, and punt returns.
They graded the Lions as a shade below average in kickoff coverage.
They graded the Lions as solidly below average in punt coverage.
That pretty much squares with my vimpressions from last year. I don’t think they’ll be overly improved this year, nor do I think they’ll decline.
Thanks Smitty.
I’ll disagree with you a bit and say that I think you will see Detroit improve to at least average in punt coverage. Rashied Davis will augment John Wendling and the rest on coverage, and [I’ll be overly optimistic here] Donahue will significantly improve the hang time and direction of the punts.
With the new kick return rules, I think you will see every team move to the middle as there will be more touchbacks and less return attempts.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
well, I appreciate it for sure
and will adjust my impression accordingly, but it was doesn’t jive that much with the stats (where we were ranked much lower in yards given up between punt and kick coverage…)
The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.
The FO stats look at where the punt was made from, and then compares the net punt with the average net punt from that position.
So, for example, all punts from the thirty are compared to historical averages of punts from the thirty. Punts from the forty to average punts from the 40, etc.
So it’s based on stats, but not the conventional ones. FO’s data suggests that the Lions were giving up more field position than they should have given the points on the field they punted from.
And for the record...
Those “coverage” numbers aren’t purely coverage, they necessarily include the performance of the kicker/punter.
So it’s not clear purely from the stats whether the punt unit was poor because of coverage, Harris, or some unspecified combination of both. The hard data shows the punt unit didn’t do so great, but you need to use your eyes to assign proportion of blame.
My recollection was that Harris had no hangtime on his long punts, which probably did the coverage guys no favors.
Kick coverage concerns me a little bit
but the punt cover team still scares the hell out of me. We’ve gotten burned so often at critical times by punt coverage, I dont care who they put out there, I want to hide behind my couch every time we punt
"Common Sense, isn't" Solomon Short
by YpsilantiJeff on Sep 6, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The Lions were 7th in average KO return given up and 27th on punt returns.
While Stefan Logan was the only kick returner in the top 5 in both KR and PR average.
Really, I think the LIons STs are at least a top ten unit.
No slogans. Just win!!!
Nick Harris
I saw him as an average punter. The thing that always bothered me the most sbout him was his inability to pin the opposing team within the 20 yard line. He seemed to always kick the ball into the end zone. Donohue has already shown us his ability to pin a team deep in their own territory. I wonder if this had anything to do with the decision to cut Harris?
2013 Superbowl Champion Detroit Lions
R.I.P Tom Kowalski. You will be sorely missed.
He seemed better at pinning last year
but it’s not like he has much upside left…I was kinda down on Donahue’s inconsistency throughout the preseason – certainly didn’t seem like he out performed Harris (which is what Schwartz told Harris) but hopefully Donahue’s upside is quite high…
The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.
btw
I remember reports out of camp saying that Donahue struggled to be more consistent pinning in the 20 – Harris was better in those practices. So I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if we see brilliant kicks from Donahue this year, followed by pretty poor ones…
The Dis-Assembly Line - The unofficial, official name for the next best D-line in football.
What i remember from Harris is
nothing spectacular but ALWAYS consistant. I’m sure he’s had a couple in his career, but I can’t think of one piss poor punt from him. When he stood back there to punt, you knew he was going to boot it 43-50 yards everytime with pretty fair hang time.
It’s been nice know the consistancy you always got from him. I understand going with the youngster and I’m sure shaving a few dollars off of the books probably had a small factor as well. I will almost cringe sometimes I’m sure, hoping he doesn’t shank one or screw up a hold for Hanson.
Can someone say Mayhewed!? by rames on Jul 31, 2011
by BarryStillRules on Sep 6, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Here are Nick's rankings from last year.
- of punts = 90 [5th] ; distance = 44.6 yds [6th] ; net dist. = 35.8 yds [27th] ; inside 20 = 24 [17th]
- of fair catches = 17 [13th] ; # out of bounds = 4 [26th]
Those are not impressive stats. To me it shows that either our coverage sucked, or that Nick did not get a lot of height or good direction on his kicks. Hopefully, the moves made this offseason have improved both the punting and the punt coverage.
"Filling a need doesn’t necessarily mean you’re getting a good player," said Schwartz. "It doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that best fits; it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re getting a player that’s better than what you have already."
Net distance is the tell all.
Harris’s inability to get the hangtime + distance.
It was time for a new leg.
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by CLF on Sep 6, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Harris was well below average in net yards for most of his career.
He had one very good year in 2006, the rest he was mostly in the bottom 10-12.
But with so much of the team needing upgrades getting a new punter must have seemed like a pretty low priority until now. I’m glad we had the competition at least.
No slogans. Just win!!!
Go Hawkeyes !!
Donahue is an excellant special teamer . The Iowa Hawkeyes have turned out quite a few . Nate Kaeding as a K and Reggie Roby as a P . As a Viking fan I have seen many veterian kickers come and go . The Lions got Hanson early . And he has been great . People always under estimate a good long snapper . As for Logan . He did excede expectations last year .
Special teams will mean more than ever . With your solid line and less than average secondary I believe that field position will be key .
Sorry to see Nic go.
Agw and salary were certainly among the reasons but his below average performance last year probably was a factor also. Prior to last year he was very good at placing the ball within the 20.
Ah but I was so much older then and younger than right now
So is Donahue the backup kicker?
Just curious didn’t hear anything if he was just going to be punter/holder like Harris with Suh still the backup
Donahue
Is our backup kickoff specialist and long field goal kicker (with one of the QBs being backup holder). For chip shots like PATs and short field goals, Suh will likely still be our backup kicker with Donahue still holding.
Mind you, that only comes into play if Hanson gets hurt during a game, because after that game we just wind up getting another kicker anyways.
I disagree with Muhlbach being "Mr. Consistency" for the past 7 years.
He had that one snap against Minnesota that he fudged after Harrington led a game-tying drive in a two minute drill. All that was left to do was kick the extra point and go to overtime and Muhlbach screwed it up.
Had he made that snap, Harrington would have gone on to be an all-time NFL great, the Lions would be working on their 6th consecutive superbowl win and the lockout would have never happened.
Although I guess 1 bad snap over 7 years, considering the number of punts and field goals we’ve had is probably more consistent than I’m giving him credit for…
Jonas Jerebko once killed a charging female rhinoceros in heat protecting its young with nothing more than a hook shot.
I was at the Muhlbach game
I remember my dad and I going nuts after the touchdown, but simultaneously looked at each other in horror when we realized we still had to hit the extra point. Minutes later, we were walking out to choruses of “Can you believe that?” and “Only the Lions….”
Moral of the story: A long snapper can only be Mr. Consistent if you consistently have to ask what is name is, which we don’t have to because of that game.
Fan of the Detroit Tigers, Lions and Red Wings.
You are gonna
require surgery to remove that tongue so firmly embedded in your cheek.
Ah but I was so much older then and younger than right now
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