Call me Crazy but....

I am not a huge fan of CWill, but he definitely is more important to the team’s performance than KVB. I wish they would cut back on both of their snap counts to develop the guys behind them more [Jackson/Young and Hill/Fairley].

I think they will renegotiate both of their contracts to keep them on.

just because, outside of these 2 players, DT seems to have more depth and more invested in it than DE, so I kept KVB.

Suh and Avril are starters. That leaves, at the other spots, Fairley/Hill and Jackson/Young.

Fairley was a first-round pick. And an extremely talented one at that, if the scouting reports are true. With a full offseason to train and heal his foot injury, I think he has a stronger chance to challenge Corey Williams for a starting spot than LoJack and Young have to challenge KVB.

If we had spent an upper-middle first-round pick on a talented defensive end, then I’d say we could more easily afford to lose KVB than CWill.

But, hopefully we find a way to keep both.

His neck issues are not going away to the point that each year he has to make a retirement decision.

CW has been consistant as ever and has more in the tank.

With that in mind… hopefully Mayhew keeps both by restructuring and other moves. Personally, I’d look at any ‘fat’ in the oline.

Personally I would like to see KVB Retire and get hired on as the DL coach to replace Kris Kocurek if we cannot get Jim Washburn out of Philly. Now granted we can’t just steal Washburn, but if Philly gets a new defensive coordinator, there may be a difference in philosophy, or an ego check that causes him to part ways with them. That being said, let me get back to my point.

I could see scenarios where both of them go. I love both guys (no homo) and would love to keep them both, however, if push comes to shove, I have to go with KVB’s intangibles over Cory Williams. If I was going to keep and overpay one of the two, it would be KVB. Not only for his intangibles but also for two other reasons.

1) A promise was made to him in coming to this team. He was a free agent with options and he chose the Lions, to spit in his face at this point would be a bad move for the organization on an integrity standpoint in my eyes. He came here to help turn this team around, he showed some loyalty to not only Jim Schwartz but also the franchise and this city. A little loyalty in return is not only expected, IMO it is demanded in this case.

2) I want to develop him as a coach. All of those intangibles he has make him a prime candidate for that.

Sorry but if I have to pick, Cory Williams would be the choice. Kyle should leave on his terms to a degree at least.

I think GM’s are going to realize that Cliff has a ton of help up the middle with Detroit and will pursue him accordingly. Let me ask the question this way, what teams do you see willing to pay more money for Avril than Detroit?

I like both guys and think they have been key to the turnaround of this team. I would just say KVB is more important because he is the main defensive and possibly overall leader of this team. I think CWill is a leader as well but not as much.

We have a lot of young guys on this team and some of them are immature and I think being a leader is a hard quality to find and can’t be understated. They are both productive for their ages as well and while I think CWill has more left in the tank I’m just partial to KVB.

Another part that is key to being a leader is being productive to back it up. Dom may be a leader but he isn’t very good so it is harder for me to think players follow his lead.

couldn’t you include one in a trade? I’d think that you could get at least a fifth round pick for CWill… I think I remember someone talking about giving Corey to the Dolphins along with a first and third round pick for Jake Long

I like KVB, I really do, but he’s sucked in run defense this year. I mean, almost atrocious. Could be the wide 9 or something, but IDK. Willie Young has had a great year, like LoJacks’ last year. We have more dependable guys at DE than at DT.

I think KVB will retire and the Lions will part ways with Williams in order to allow Fairley to emerge. KVB might come back for 1 more year, but I think the Lions are going to be looking at drafting a DE…and it is much too early to speak of this.

that they are both here for the remainder of their current contracts because we need that time to stack talent at other positions and when their contracts are done they are gone. That said, if the front office gets a hard on for Mercilus out of Illinois come draft time, KVB could be gone.

A giant cap number off the books. Wether he returns or not isn’t the question NO WAY Mayhew gives him that kind of money again. I say keep both and resturcture and resign some players. One thing I have learned no offense to anyone here…Fans don’t have a clue how the cap works. I know I don’t

You’re a Crazy Butt.

@ KVB – First up he already restructured this year so I dont know he would be willing to do again given he has only a yr or two at most in the NFL w/ that persistent neck injury. Which brings me to the next part, I dont think he is as expendable as Williams. LoJack and Young are good but Young I still see get pushed around and is a small DE and better in rotation but theres no one else aside from Avril. And w/ limited cap room and some big needs to fill on the OLine and adding some depth at other positions like the S,CB, LB I dont think messing w/ the DE position would be a sacrifice you can make next season.

I do like what Smurf said about loyalty and maybe bringing him in as an assistant or something of that nature because he seems like he would be a great motivator and coach/coordinator however the drop in pay is where he may not be comfortable w/. Right now he is working his retirement funds.

@CWill – hate to say this but he is more expendable especially if Fairley is suppose to be what he has the potential to be. His cap hit is also the Highest and Hill given more snaps could easily fill in much same w/ little to no drop off in consistency from the DT’s . However the guys been a class act and a silent gamer thats over looked by most. If anything Id hope they honor him w/ a trade where he’d want to go or give him out right freedom to pursue his interests.

Hill given more snaps could easily fill in much same w/ little to no drop off in consistency from the DT’s

I was with you until that statement. I really like Hill’s young game. He has a lot of potential and all that but….. He is no where as consistent as CWill and not nearly as disruptive. I think that has to do with hill being more inclined to be a run stuffer.

I don’t really know if you can say that signing Avril forces us to cut one or both of these guys. Personally, I see value in keeping all three. I don’t want to go backwards and I think losing KVB and Williams would equal going backwards. KVB is a leader on a team that needs leadership and still plays at a high level and Williams is an excellent tackle with lots left in the tank. If the Lions played less of a rotation, I could see someone being more expendable.

The Lions will find ways to keep this team intact and get under the cap. Personally, I don’t see them going nuts in FA.

Well, you told me to call you crazy, so I did.

I don’t think either KVB or Corey Williams will be gone next season. In fact, I think that Cliff Avril may be the guy that is gone. This all comes down to whether you believe that the success of Avril is due to his actual abilities, or whether Cliff is the beneficiary of attention spent on blocking the defensive tackles.

Yes, Cliff has had a good season and I feel the Lions should pay him. I think they have a number of options to do that without breaking the bank or losing players. They can renegotiate some contracts to spread out money. Most importantly, they can give Cliff a long term contract with a good signing bonus. That would give him good money up from to reward him, but spread the hit for that cash across several additional seasons to ease the burden.

Since the NFL is going to raise the salary cap some $50 million for the 2013 season, the Lions will then fit back under the cap nicely at that point. It all comes down to making it through next season without losing any important pieces.

With that said, I feel that KVB may be starting to risk his health by continuing to play. He required neck surgery last season and he is experiencing neck pain again this year. I wouldn’t want to see another Detroit Lions paralyzed from a neck injury. So I feel that between the two it is best for KVB to retire and become an assistant defensive line coach.