Rank a QB
by Redwolf333 on Jan 8, 2012 4:47 PM EST
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PrintHey there just need some help on where people would rank the current QB's in the league.
The hard part is that Peyton Manning didn't play this year but we all know how good he is (2-14 without him). But lets keep him off the list for right now just because he didn't play this year.
So give me your top 15-16 about half the league. Cutler is pretty darn good (though you wish he wasn't) and we saw what happened to that team without him and what he did in Denver when he had some real weapons. So rank them not just on this year or past years but going forward.Here would be mine
- Aaron Rodgers
- Drew Brees
- Tom Brady
- Eli Manning
- Ben Roethlisberger
- Philip Rivers
- Matthew Stafford
- Michael Vick
- Tony Romo
- Jay Cutler
- Matthew Ryan
- Joe Flacco
- Josh Freeman
- Cameron Newton
- Ryan Fitzpatrick
- Sam Bradford
Any Questions?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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1) Tim Tebow
2) Tim Tebow
3) Tim Tebow
4) Tim Tebow
5) Tim Tebow
6) Tim Tebow
7) Tim Tebow
8) Tim Tebow
9) Tim Tebow
10) Tim Tebow
11) Timmy Tebow
12) Timothy Q. Tebow
13) Tim Tebow
14) The guy that backed up Chris Leak when Florida won the National Championship
15) Jim Jebow
I'm so ahead of my time, my parents haven't met yet
by YakAttack on Jan 8, 2012 5:22 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I think you forgot Tim Tebow
We are taught from an early age how to deal with failure not success. (If at first you don't succeed try try again, if at first you succeed then what....) -Charlie Sheen
I come ready, when I came out the womb I was ready, tell them mama that's why you had me, you knew I was ready. -Moss
Dominating your opposition physically is great and all, but confounding them mentally is sooo much more fun.
2-15-DEN 44(14:36) (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 47 for 3 yards (N.Suh). FUMBLES (N.Suh), RECOVERED by DET-N.Suh at DEN 47. N.Suh to DEN 47 for no gain (K.Moreno). FUMBLES (K.Moreno), recovered by DET-C.Houston at DEN 47. C.Houston to DEN 47 for no gain (O.Franklin). Denver challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 49 for 5 yards (S.Tulloch).
Yikes
Slide him in around number 7 or so. Sorry, Mr. Jebow…
I'm so ahead of my time, my parents haven't met yet
I was actually gonna suggest something like this....
My grandfather was a Packers fan, my father is a Vikings fan, I am a Lions fan, and there is no way in hell I am raising a Bears fan.
Oh, and I hate the Philadelphia Eagles (but like the Phillies)
What about?
1) Anybody but Tebow
2) Non-Tebow
3) Guys not named Tebow
4) Tebow, Not
5) Won’t be Tebow’ed
6) Gals not named Tebow
7
7) The Anti-Tebow
8) John Elway
Lion fan in the Great Land!
... Fumble thumbs ... was on a roll but hit Enter by accident .... oh well !
Lion fan in the Great Land!
1 Drew Brees
2 Aaron Rodgers
3 Tom Brady
4 Ben Rothliesberger
5 Eli Manning
6 Phillip Rivers
7 Matthew Stafford
8 Matt Ryan
9 Matt Schaub
10 Jay Cutler
11 Michael Vick
12 Ryan Fitzpatrick
13 Josh Freeman
14 Matt Hasselbeck
15 Andy Dalton
16 Everyone not named Mark Sanchez lol
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THE PHONZ ~ I LOVE THAT GUY
PCP 4 LIFE
No romo?
Or Newton?
We are taught from an early age how to deal with failure not success. (If at first you don't succeed try try again, if at first you succeed then what....) -Charlie Sheen
I come ready, when I came out the womb I was ready, tell them mama that's why you had me, you knew I was ready. -Moss
Dominating your opposition physically is great and all, but confounding them mentally is sooo much more fun.
2-15-DEN 44(14:36) (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 47 for 3 yards (N.Suh). FUMBLES (N.Suh), RECOVERED by DET-N.Suh at DEN 47. N.Suh to DEN 47 for no gain (K.Moreno). FUMBLES (K.Moreno), recovered by DET-C.Houston at DEN 47. C.Houston to DEN 47 for no gain (O.Franklin). Denver challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 49 for 5 yards (S.Tulloch).
Hells no
Romo is too inconsistant. Cam had 1 year. Bradford had 1 good year and 1 horrible year.
"Detroit doesn't pat itself on the back, it gets the job done."-Barry Sanders
"All I can say is, that boy ballin’," said wide receiver Calvin Johnson on Matt Stafford
by Enforcer on Jan 8, 2012 10:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Stafford only had one good year to be honest if you want to put it like that.
Honestly there is no way going into next season Newton isn’t a top 10 quarterback. If Andrew Luck had even a half the season Newton had on that flag football team Carolina has everyone would be riding Lucks “@!%^” so hard. Makes me shake my head because it is the same people pre draft that said he wasn’t going to be any good… but if Newton even has a marginal improvement he is a top10 quarterback easy… if he has a marked improvement he could be even better… same people that had all the negative stuff to say pre draft are just gonna say he sucks anyway….. just can’t admit it
Staffod di have only 1 good full year
But he showed in his first 2 seasons he had what it takes. Cleveland anyone?
"Detroit doesn't pat itself on the back, it gets the job done."-Barry Sanders
"All I can say is, that boy ballin’," said wide receiver Calvin Johnson on Matt Stafford
by Enforcer on Jan 9, 2012 10:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
says the guy that was making Cam Newton post on POD
A team that didn’t have use for a QB. You can accuse me of being a hater…I don’t care. But you are the extreme opposite. He can do no wrong and no one will ever be able to disagree with you without you having a shit fit.
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THE PHONZ ~ I LOVE THAT GUY
PCP 4 LIFE
by The Profiler on Jan 9, 2012 11:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
You can accuse me of being a hater…I don’t care. But you are the extreme opposite. He can do no wrong and no one will ever be able to disagree with you without you having a shit fit.
No… it was because you where so extreme in your comments toward Newton. Even though i acknowledged flaws i pointed out strenghts that he did have. Even though i was dead on you brushed off what i said as if i didn’t have a clue what i was talking about. As if you where mad at me for having my own mind and not believe’n what everyone else said about his on field game. It is just the anger you projected that took me back. Why are you mad at me for having my own view?
As far as me saying he does no wrong. That is a completely extreme comment. Tallked about positives that everyone ignored like pocket awareness and deep accuracy. Basic skills i felt like transfer too the NFL. It was responds to those views that sent you into “attack mode”. And i find it funny because i pretty much called it too the letter.
Staffod di have only 1 good full year
But he showed in his first 2 seasons he had what it takes. Cleveland anyone?
Most people would not associate Newtons rookie season with Derek Andersons probowl season. Derek Anderson had a below average season and only because of lack of quarterbacks in the AFC too send too the probowl did DA make it… he had something like 29 TD and 18 int and just over 3000 yards. Newton’s season is being widely dismissed by certain people. But let Andrew Luck do even half of what Newton did (damn sure won’t beat what he did) those same people will be in love ranking him in the top 10. What Newton did this year is incredible.
-highest offensive rank in NFL history with a team with a rookie quarterback that has started 14 or more games.
-biggest turn around on offence in the NFL 32nd too 6th
-First player in NFL history with over 4000 yards passing and 500 yards rushing (he had over 700
-highest two yardage game totals by a rookie in NFL history
-two of the highest yardage totals for a game in NFL history by a rookie
-NO rookie in NFL history has ever lead a team too a winning record with a defence ranked less than 9th…. Carolina had the 28th ranked defence.
I don’t see how his season compared to Derek Anderson at all.
Where did I mention Anderson?
I was talking about what Matt did in his rookie season against Cleveland. You were trying to make it sound like he did nothing before this year.
"Detroit doesn't pat itself on the back, it gets the job done."-Barry Sanders
"All I can say is, that boy ballin’," said wide receiver Calvin Johnson on Matt Stafford
by Enforcer on Jan 9, 2012 4:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was talking about what Matt did in his rookie season against Cleveland. You were trying to make it sound like he did nothing before this year.
Matt showed flashes in that game.. no doubt. He is good, however he was often hurt so it is what it is. Would Stafford have thrown for 4000 yards as a rookie? I think he could… but he was hurt. So it is what it is. Newton showed just as much rookie flashes as Stafford plus some in his own way. No young quarterbacks in the NFL have higher ceilings than Stafford and Newton period… i just remember people saying Stafford was a top 10 quarterback coming into this season when his resume wasn’t as impressive prior coming into this season as Newtons is and the end of this one.
Romo
currently has the third highest career passer rating of all time.
Behind Rodgers and some guy named Steve Young. :)
"Perfection is not attainable,
but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."
"We're nobody's underdog!"
"We don't play scared!"
After further review,
the Munsters of the Midway still suck!
Chad Pennington has a better career passer rating than Dan Marino
Need I say more to completely discredit the passer rating stat.
FIRE Perry Fewell
by bleedblue12 on Jan 11, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Please do.
Clearly, it doesn’t tell the whole story. No stat tells the whole story — they all need some degree of context. But that doesn’t mean passer rating can be completely discredited. Surely, you would agree that the constituent stats (yds., comp%, TDs, Ints) that are used to calculate passer rating have some import. So, how exactly do these stats have no meaning and turn to shit when you combine them using a formula?
because the formula to take all those stats
and put them into one number is flawed. It does not take into account game time situations. Difficulty of opponent. Anything for that matter. It just takes raw flat numbers and jams them together.
The reason it sucks is that simple. You know it along with everyone else but hate to admit it because it is the only way you can reasonably say Rodgers is the best QB.
Sorry Ben, you are about as transparent as can be in this situation.
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GROW THE F UP
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I like to be transparent in all situations,
so I will take that as a compliment. However, in this case my opinion on the passer rating was formed long before Aaron Rodgers was ever picked by the Packers. I agree that the stat has limitations — they all do. That’s how phrases like “eyeball test” come into existence. There is nothing wrong with the formula. The only limitation is that it does not tell the whole story. Your good buddies at ESPN attempted to address your concerns by inventing Total QBR. Do you like it better than passer rating?
Is it better yes
Is it absolute? No
BTW, I am well aware the Rodgers has a slightly higher grade in that also.
And I still do not care.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You can get a win with undisciplined jack asses, you create a winning team with discipline and poise." by Leonuro
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GROW THE F UP
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Some people mistake the way I talk for the way I am thinking."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
When any formula rates Pennington ahead of Marino
yes it completely turns to shit and I’ve always ignored it.
FIRE Perry Fewell
i expected that question and prepared to answer
All of these QBs made MY list for a reason. Cam and Romo in my opinion have showed to be great fantasy QBs. But both of them I don’t see the leadership I need to. To consider them elite or top tier QBs. Hasselbeck is very underrated to me and deserves a spot on that list. Dalton led his team to the playoffs as a rookie. I must give him more credit than Cam for that. Cams stats are nice but Dalton has the all important Wins! Say what you must but wins are what matter. Cam sits on the sideline with a towel over his head saddened when they are losing. Dalton is looking at pictures talking to teammates. Body language speaks miles I need to see more leading from Cam statistical football dosen’t impress me if you can’t pick your team up in a loss and make them fight. As opposed to saying they aren’t playing to my level.
Romo is a little different. I still don’t see an IT factor from him. He’s a gun slinger but I don’t see him as a leader. Especially when his team is so desperate for one. People put him in the same breath as Eli. He’s not believe it or Eli is a leader. A very quite one but he is a leader on the NYG team. I don’t see it from Romo. This is my personal list going by what I expect from a QB. These 2 just don’t meet that standard. Now Cam might some time he has had some impressive moment. I don’t think Romo ever will. He will be remembered as a choke artist when it counts and having a severe lack of leadership. People don’t have to like it I didn’t expect them too. But that’s my list.
Besides I can’t pick Cam cause according to a POD member during the draft I don’t like him cause I’m racist. I’m a Jason Campbell fan but I guess Cam is all black QBs…I won’t say who said it I’m not THAT petty. But he knows who he is.
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PCP 4 LIFE
by The Profiler on Jan 9, 2012 11:10 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
stop acting childish you put your own self out there and i never said those words
You can only see what a hater sees. Newton has a towel on his head all of the time even while laughing and talking too team mates. That truely shows you in predraft form talking about things and you don’t even know the whole picture. So all you have against him is a he puts a towel on his head. Even though he IS talking to Chud and his teammates. You see a sideline photo or shot of him sitting there with the towel and you base this entire theory on that…. wow
Seriouslyyou are callng me childish LOL thats funny as hell
I don’t put a guy in my top 15 QBs. Which is my personal list of who I feel are top 15 QBs. You feel the need to make a huge deal out of it cause cam is your boy. I could give 2 shits if you love cam or what you think about me not liking Cam. But don’t call me childish because you won’t let it slide. Apperently I have made a epic mistake in not being a Cam Newton fan. Of fucking well. Don’t be a tool dude. I mean this I have had disagreements with Joshun and several other members. ALL of which I have some level of respect for. When it comes to cam newton I cannot give you that same benifit…LET IT GO! You like Cam congratualtions I don’t so be it. Ya know what I can bet any amount of money if I sit here and list my top 15 RBs and WRs. You won’t like that list either. Because it isn’t Newton though you won’t get your panties in a bunch. Grow up
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i am refering to your reference to me using the race card ...
and that is childish since at no point did i direct any comments at you. And that ticks me off because you put yourself out there. Infact that is what i said last time.. that you put yourself out there with your comments. I didnt add anymore detail than that.
I dont care who you rank in your list.. its your list. It is your comments directed at me..not at Newton. And that is childish
Going forward from here i say opening next season these are your quarterback power rankings
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Drew Brees
3. Tom Brady
4. Peyton Manning (if healthy and in a new system /team)
5. Matthew Stafford
6. Eli Manning
7. Big Ben
8. Cam Newton
9, Jay Cutler
10. Matt Schaub
11. Tony Romo
12. Michael Vick
13. Matt Ryan
14. Joe Flacco
15. Andy Dalton
16. Ryan Fitzpatrick
17. Josh Freeman
Andrew Luck and RG3 could protientally be around this 20ish area with a bunch of quarterback changes and new faces everywhere else
oh and
32. Blaine Gabbert
by Shankdiddy on Jan 9, 2012 4:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
wow forgot rivers on my list oops
going off the top of my head failure.. i would put him between big ben and newton
But seriously...
If this is based on ’going forward", Cam Newton has to be ahead of guys like Freeman, Flacco, et al. I was very wrong about him.
I'm so ahead of my time, my parents haven't met yet
by YakAttack on Jan 8, 2012 6:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
1 Drew Brees
2 Aaron Rodgers
3 Tom Brady
4 Peyton Manning.
5 Ben Rothliesberger
6 Eli Manning
7 Matthew Stafford
8 Phillip Rivers
9 Matt Ryan
10 Matt Schaub
11 Michael Vick
12 Ryan Fitzpatrick
13 Jay Cutler
14 Josh Freeman
15 Matt Hasselbeck
16 Andy Dalton
I put Payton up there because had he played I feel he would have been up there. I have Dalton at 16 but next year if Locker can take Hasslebeck’s job Andy will take the 15 spot.
"Detroit doesn't pat itself on the back, it gets the job done."-Barry Sanders
"All I can say is, that boy ballin’," said wide receiver Calvin Johnson on Matt Stafford
I agree with almost everyone except...
Those that have Eli over Stafford. I just dont see it. Not in arm strength, accuracy, turnovers/decision making. Its just not there.
1. Rodgers
2. Brees
3. Brady
4. Peyton
5. Rivers
6. Big Ben
7. Stafford
Im am the host of the Pride of Detroit Podcast. Please leave feedback on the podcast site, here at Pride of Detroit, via Twitter, facebook, and email us at PrideofDetroitPodcast@yahoo.com.
Stafford is at 5
1. Rodgers
2. Brees (interchangeable)
3. Brady
4. Peyton healthy
5. Stafford, no doubt in my mind now.
President of the Eric Wright fan club, but I love me some Aaron Berry.
Obligatory statement about being a huge Lions fan.
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I don't see either Rivers or Roethlisberger ahead of Stafford anymore
I think Ben leans too much on his defense to get wins, and Rivers, while possibly better than Stafford, needs to be more consistent. I can’t decide between Rodgers and Manning, last year, healthy, I thought Manning was the better QB, but we’ll see what happens next year.
1: Brees
2: Brady
3a: Manning
3b: Rodgers
5: Stafford
6: Manning the Younger
7: Newton
8: Roethlisberger
9: Rivers
10: Schuab
11: Ryan
12: Cutler
13: Fitzpatrick
14: Freeman
15: Dalton
16: Hasselbeck
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
1. Rodgers…. deadly accurate, pinpoint tight spirals and elusive in the pocket.
2. Brady….It’s Tom Brady
3. Brees… throws a lot of underneath and to RB’s but is deadly accurate and has season record.
4. Stafford fourth member of the 5k club, NFL records as a 23 yr QB in first season. Not big three but best of the rest
5. E Manning he says he is elite I say he is not… but damn close
6.Cutler is way better than most give credit for, extremely gifted QB finally reaching potential
7. Roethlisberger may be slipping a bit (could just be the injuries)
8. & 9. I can’t decide between Ryan and Schaub too close to call
10.Newton could jump many spots next year if he grows at all
11 & 12 Fitz and Freeman both up then down. Freeman tale of two seasons Fitz tale of two half seasons
13. Dalton could easily jump into top ten next year with some experience.
Follow @Crino22
Defenses around the NFL will fall victim to the fatal disease "Natecalvintitus"
Eli is not elitie?
He set the record for most 4th quarter tds this year. Not only does he get it done, he does it in clutch time.
"Detroit doesn't pat itself on the back, it gets the job done."-Barry Sanders
"All I can say is, that boy ballin’," said wide receiver Calvin Johnson on Matt Stafford
by Enforcer on Jan 8, 2012 10:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Agree with this list
I agree with this list. I’d put Stafford fourth after watching him this season, definitely ahead of Rivers and Roethleisberger. I think Cutler sixth is very reasonable as I think he was playing very well until injury. I might have Schaub above Big Ben, and I think next season most people would take Newton over Ryan.
And Rodgers must be number one.
Nitschke never wore an earring!
I don't know about that
Rodgers is undeniably awesome, and he put up a year for the ages, but I think Brees is ahead of him. Top three (or four if you include Peyton) are kind of interchangeable though.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
Stafford put up the numbers, had many comebacks, played all 16, and made the playoffs.
He’s top 5.
Who is the only Maniac to appear in every mmamania fantasy football league superbowl in league history?
by DetroitDrew1980 on Jan 9, 2012 12:50 AM EST reply actions
Since you said not just now but "going forward" ... here's my thoughts
1. Rodgers
2a. Brees
2b. Brady
4. Stafford
5. Eli
6. Rivers
7. Big Ben
8. Romo
9. Cutler
10. Cam
11. Vick
12. Schaub
13. Ryan
14. Freeman
15. Dalton
16. Fitzpatrick
17. Bradford
Again, some of these ratings are based on “going forward” (e.g., Cam) … and I was tempted to rate Dalton higher, based on potential.
Not sold on Freeman and Fitz … not living up to potential. Not sure about Matt Ryan either, either poor play calling, needs a better O line, or ???.
Not sure where to put Bradford, due to injuries. His stock seemed to have dropped some this year, but he’s also been out a lot. He has potential and could move up.
I didn’t include Peyton Manning, as the original poster didn’t want to, but I’d have to rate him high on skill (if he’s cleared to play). Since he has not yet been cleared, and has major neck issues, I’m actually OK leaving him off this list for now.
Lion fan in the Great Land!
Here are my sixteen for the best QBs going into the 2012 season.
1. Brees/Rodgers – sorry. I cannot pick between them.
3. Brady – he is still one of the best, just a hair behind the top two.
4. Peyton Manning – a tough call. I could just as easily drop him to twelfth or so.
5. Rothelisberger – a real gamer who is being beaten down by his O Line’s failings and his own gutsy style of play. I don’t like the guy, but he is a winner on the field.
6. Eli Manning – he may not have the physical ability of the guys above him [or some below] but he gets more done with what he has than almost any other QB in the NFL.
7. Matthew Stafford – perhaps a little high, but I am a homer and there is not a guy lower on this list that I would trade him for. Not even close.
8. Tony Romo – inconsistent? Yes. But the guy makes plays and has a lot of ability.
9. Jay Cutler – gets more out of his team than any other QB not named Peyton Manning.
Very underrated IMO.
10. Phillip Rivers – could be a lot higher but does not seem to carry his team like a lot of the other QBs.
11. Matt Ryan – I have never really been a fan of his. A bit of a glorified game manager, but he has done well at Atlanta.
12. Matt Schaub – looked to be poised to break out this year. I wish I saw more of him to be more certain of where he stands, but this feels about right.
13. Cam Newton – a very good year for a rookie, but let’s see if he improves on his consistency before putting him up with the big boys.
14. Mike Vick – I am holding my nose as I put him on this list. He is a declining talent.
15. Josh Freeman – I think he can be a very good NFL QB…again. Unfortunately, this disaster of a season forced him into a role where he had to pass a lot more often in very poor situations that don’t suit him very well. I think he will recover from this.
16. Joe Flacco – has not improved even with better WRs and overall supporting cast. His absolute lack of mobility is a problem. Could bounce back this post/offseason.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
I purposefully left Vick off my list
If I’m building a team I want no part of him, I think he’s trying to shoehorn himself into being a pocket passer, but he doesn’t really have the arm for that. When he tries to run, he gets hurt. That puts him in the bottom half of the league for me.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
He doesn't have the Oline for that
He has a good arm, but it is hard to stay in the pocket when you have guys flying at you unblocked.
Heres mine
1. Drew Brees
2a. Tom Brady
2b. Aaron Rodgers
3.Peyton Manning
4. Raplesburger
5. Stafford
6. Eli Manning
7. Phillip Rivers
8. Jay Cuntler
9. Tomo Romo
10. Matt Shaub
11. Matt Ryan
12. Michael Vick
13. Cam Newton
14. Sam Bradford
15. Josh Freeman
16. Joe Flacco
17. Fitzpatrick
18. Carson Palmer
19. Alex Smith
20. Andy Dalton
21. Matt Hasselbeck
22. Mark Sanchez
23. Matt Cassel
24. Matt Moore
25. Christian Ponder
26. Tavaris Jackson
27.Kevin Kolb
28. Colt McCoy
29. Blaine Gabbert
30a. Rex Grossman
30b. Tim Tebow
Datsyukian Deke, Detroit Red Wings Blog
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Even on a Lions fan site
Stafford and his 5k, 40+ TDs, and 97 rating get overlooked.
Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers couldn’t smell his jock this year and you put them over Staff? Would you be happy if we traded Staff even up for either of those guys?
Other comments:
-If you look at the last 2/3 of the season you wouldn’t put Fitzpatric on any list other than QBs whole stole money.
-Leaving Cam Newton off this top 10 list is criminal and shows you don’t understand a good QB. Sure, Cam didn’t make the playoffs, but he lead a crap team who fought all year long and tripled their wins in one season. And he was a force from the first second he touched the ball. Every team who plays him next year is already trying to figure out how to stop the guy.
-As much a I hate to say it, Cutler should be higher
The reason you can't put Stafford higher
is not because we would trade for Eli or Philip or whoever its because at the very least they have won a playoff game. Look at Matt Ryan. He is money in the regular season and 0-3 in the playoffs, hence is stock is falling. Would you still put Stafford above Eli and Philip if they went on to win the next two super bowls while Stafford went 0-2 in the playoffs. I don’t think so
We are taught from an early age how to deal with failure not success. (If at first you don't succeed try try again, if at first you succeed then what....) -Charlie Sheen
I come ready, when I came out the womb I was ready, tell them mama that's why you had me, you knew I was ready. -Moss
Dominating your opposition physically is great and all, but confounding them mentally is sooo much more fun.
2-15-DEN 44(14:36) (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 47 for 3 yards (N.Suh). FUMBLES (N.Suh), RECOVERED by DET-N.Suh at DEN 47. N.Suh to DEN 47 for no gain (K.Moreno). FUMBLES (K.Moreno), recovered by DET-C.Houston at DEN 47. C.Houston to DEN 47 for no gain (O.Franklin). Denver challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 49 for 5 yards (S.Tulloch).
Are we talking QBs
or team in general. This is the problem with your “QB” rankings. You say you should account for the weapons, team, etc. but you are putting too high a premium on a QB being on a good team or not. Hey, why not put Sanchez on the list-he won a couple playoff games against good opponents. He should be at least top 10 by your mark. Tebow won a playoff game. Does that mean he is a top 10 QB?
Rate a QB on what the QB does not what the team does.
The difference in my mind is
That Sanchez was carried by his team. Winning playoff games is important, its a part of the equation, but the QB also has to have the numbers, and consistancy. Sanchez only has the wins like Tebow which is why I didn’t put them on my list. Stafford has the numbers and is improving in the consistancy but doesn’t have the wins. Eli and Philip have all three.
We are taught from an early age how to deal with failure not success. (If at first you don't succeed try try again, if at first you succeed then what....) -Charlie Sheen
I come ready, when I came out the womb I was ready, tell them mama that's why you had me, you knew I was ready. -Moss
Dominating your opposition physically is great and all, but confounding them mentally is sooo much more fun.
2-15-DEN 44(14:36) (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 47 for 3 yards (N.Suh). FUMBLES (N.Suh), RECOVERED by DET-N.Suh at DEN 47. N.Suh to DEN 47 for no gain (K.Moreno). FUMBLES (K.Moreno), recovered by DET-C.Houston at DEN 47. C.Houston to DEN 47 for no gain (O.Franklin). Denver challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 49 for 5 yards (S.Tulloch).
Eli may not look like an elite QB, but after this year I think he should be included in that group.
Anyone who does not think his 2011 season was pretty much as good as Stafford’s is not being objective.
I don’t see how people can continue to rank Rivers so highly. The guy has all the tools to be a great drop back QB, but something is going wrong there. His offence has consistently underperformed for the last three years. His own numbers are pretty outstanding, but his team does not win even though he has some outstanding talent playing with him. I agree that he did win some playoff games early in his career [first two years] but then so did Mark Sanchez.
I think you need to look at the last three years and put a very heavy weight on 2011 and what you think the outlook is for 2012.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
OK, I was a little hard on Eli lumping him with Rivers
Still, I don’t think Eli is as good as Stafford. Not to say he isn’t good, just not as good as Stafford this year.
And I gotta admit that statistically, Eli was not really close to Stafford.
Stafford beats him on completion %, TDs (by a lot), rating and lets call the yardage a draw [100 yards over 16 games is pretty small] and INTs too. Eli wins out on yards per attempt [by over half a yard] and by his play in the fourth quarter.
NOTE: I expect the track that Matthew is on will have him well above Eli when we look at this next year.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
Eli had a running game
Much like Staff gets no recognition of a 5k season, people forget his top rusher had under 400 yards and was on IR. I think his numbers are way more impressive because everyone knew he was going to throw.
Believe it or not, the Giants had the worst rushing game in the NFL in 2011.
Lowest total yards and lowest YPC. Hard to believe the two guys who gashed the Falcons were that bad during the regular season. The Lions did not rush for a hell of a lot more yards but the average per rush was almost a yard higher [3.5 vs 4.3 ypc].
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
crazy right
The announcers were talking about how their running game was coming on at the perfect time.
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2 games
We only had 2 games we were any good running the ball. The Chicago Monday night game and the Panthers game. Those two skew it for us, otherwise we would have had the worst run game in the NFL.
I am extra surprised the Giants had that bad of a run game. I had Bradshaw in FFL and he did well for me.
Bradshaw played in 12 games and rushed for 659 yards at 3.9 YPC .
He did have 9 rushing TDs and 2 more catching the ball for another 267 yards.
Jacobs had 571 yards at a 3.8 YPC clip. He had 7 TDs rushing.
Ware got them 163 yards at 3.5 YPC.
The Lions did it by committee, and spread it out among the WRs too. Whatever works. The Lions only rushed for 9 TDs total.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
And I think that is the difference
Our running game can’t force an opponent to do anything. When it is 3rd and 2, no one is worried we will run middle and push them back. They know we will throw it.
I still wonder what we might have been this year if Leshoure had been healthy and good and given us that power run. Staff probably wouldn’t have 5k yards and 40+ TDs, but we might be still playing football.
Hardly any NFL teams run the ball on 3rd and 2 anymore.
Unless they intend to go on fourth down too.
I think our run game was serviceable. Sure, there is a lot of room for improvement, but hopefully not at the expense of our overall offensive and team performance.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
Okay
1. Whoever plays the Lions secondary that week.
2. Brees
3. Rodgers
4. Brady
5. Peyton Manning (when healthy)
6. Eli Manning
7. Matthew Stafford
8. Burger
9. Rivers
10. Newton
11. Im to lazy to finish.
"You simply cannot escape it. It's everywhere. There is a feeling the likes of which we haven't seen in decades. Emotions are high. Morale is climbing. People, once again, have something to talk about other than how disastrous our financial situation is and the collapsing of modern society." - Yahoo sports blogger.
yup
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No rankings, but a couple of observations
1. What is wrong with some of you? Is it really that difficult to admit that a division rival has the best QB in the NFL right now? If you look at all the attributes needed to be a great QB, Aaron Rodgers may not be ranked the absolute best at any one of them. But, there is no doubt that he is the most complete and best overall QB in the league right now. It’s okay to admit it, guys.
2. Stafford has all the potential in the world, he had an amazing season this year, he should have been picked for the Pro Bowl over Eli, etc., etc.. However, in my opinion it’s too early in his career to anoint him as a top 5 QB. Right now, Eli is the better quarterback. There is no shame in it — Eli has way more experience than Stafford. When we check back in with Stafford at the same point in his career, I think he will pass Eli. It’s just too early.
I disagree
On both counts really.
On the first, most people have Rodgers either 1 or 2 on their lists. We just got dismantled by Brees playing at an inhuman level so forgive people for putting Brees over Rodgers right now.
On the second, So Stafford outplayed Eli this year and had a better record than him this year and you say Eli is better because of past years? All that experience Eli has didn’t result in a better year than Staff.
For me it always comes down to who I would want on my team today. Would I trade Staff for X even up or not. I would trade staff for Brees, Rodgers, and maybe Brady. Not Eli, he is too inconsistent and seems to rely on luck too much. Not Peyton, he can’t turn his neck. Maybe Rothelisburger because he can get things done on the field (but he is a dirty rapist so no). Absolute no to Rivers, Cutler, Romo. I wouldn’t cry if we traded for Cam.
I agree with point # 2, but not with # 1.
A lot of people can make a pretty strong case for Drew Brees over Aaron Rodgers. I called it a draw although if I needed one QB for one game this year, I probably take Brees. If I wanted a QB for the rest of his career, without hesitation I take Rodgers.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
Homer
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The top three guys (four if you count Peyton) are basically interchangeable.
I went with Brady and Brees ahead of Rodgers because they’ve done it longer, but if he puts up another elite season he’ll be in the conversation for number one.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
I might get on board with that analysis
if the NFL had announced that they are changing the position from Quarterback to “Passer Extraordinaire.” Until they do, Rodgers’s ability with his legs in combination with accurate throwing on the run moving either direction puts him on top. The only QBs beating Rodgers in rushing yards are guys like Cam Newton and Michael Vick.
You don't have to run to be an elite QB
Having a brilliantly intelligent guy under center is more important than having a guy who can run. I think Peyton proved he should be up there, if not number one this year when his team completely collapsed without him. The Packers are still good without Rodgers, but Brees, Manning, and to a lesser extent Brady make their offenses run. Stafford might soon be a member of that group as well, looking at the contrast between this year and last year.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
I didn't say that
I’m just saying that if the top 4 QBs are basically even with their passing games, then Rodgers ability to make plays with his feet (whether running or buying time for a pass) is a pretty damn good tiebreaker.
They're not even with their passing games.
Brees and Brady are better passers, Manning’s a better game manager, and Rodgers is younger and more athletic.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
Care to support that with something, anything? I'll help:
Last three years (comp%, avg, QBrating) for Brady, Brees, Rodgers:
Brady
2011 (65.6, 8.6, 105.6)
2010 (65.9, 7.9, 111.0)
2009 (65.7, 7.8, 96.2)
Brees
2011 (71.2, 8.3, 110.6)
2010 (68.1, 7.0, 90.9)
2009 (70.6, 8.5, 109.6)
Rodgers
2011 (68.3, 9.2, 122.5)
2010 (65.7, 8.3, 101.2)
2009 (64.7, 8.2, 103.2)
I don't buy into QBrating at all
I do know that Brees threw 657 passes (note, that’s 155 more passes than Rodgers) and still had over 70% completion. That’s ridiculous, and makes him, in my mind, a better passer.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
by TheLoneDavid on Jan 10, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
You don't buy into QBrating at all?
At all? But you believe in total yards?
Which part of the formula do you not like: completion percentage, passing yardage, touchdowns, or interceptions? I know it’s not perfect, but it is a pretty good measure of passing efficiency. And, Rodgers not only holds the single-season mark from this year’s performance, but he also holds the career mark for passers with at least 1,500 attempts with a rating of 104.1. Some career reference: Brady (96.4), Brees (93.2), Manning (94.9).
Furthermore, QB rating measures passing, which only hurts Aaron Rodgers because it fails to factor in his running ability that yields both yards and touchdowns.
Again
Homer.
Brees has been better longer. has the same number of SB wins.
He is better.
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Like I said
homer.
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"You can get a win with undisciplined jack asses, you create a winning team with discipline and poise." by Leonuro
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Easy label
Whichever QB is the best, it’s just all too easy for anyone to label the entire fanbase of his team as homers for saying it’s true. That does not make it untrue.
At best, it is a push with the three guys for best QB playing today
If you want to look at this year alone, I think most people put it neck and neck with Brees and Rodgers with the slight tie breaker going to Rodgers for the win total and the head to head game.
You are a homer because you are pointing to a minute difference in stats like passer rating and comp % and using that to say Rodgers is by far the best.
Homer
I never said “by far the best.” I think Rodgers has a clear edge, but I never said or implied that it was a large gap between the top three or four.
even saying clear edge is a huge overstatement
Brees did not just break the season record for total yards, he bent it over and dry humped it into submission.
I think Brees has had a better year and I am unbiased in this because I hate both of them equally.
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"You can get a win with undisciplined jack asses, you create a winning team with discipline and poise." by Leonuro
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Are you exposed to the media?
Then you are not unbiased. For some reason, dry humping the yardage record gets way more coverage than Rodgers setting the QB rating mark for the season. Are total yards really the most important measuring stick for a QB?
Wow, blinded by your home team
You are making the argument that breaking the passer rating record by 1 point is more impressive than beating the yards record by 400+ yards. Let me tell you that it is not more impressive. The 5k mark was a wild one that many people didn’t hit in 2 seasons let alone one. Marino made the mark in 1984 and no one even came close until Brees a couple years ago. That it was broken by more than a game worth of passing is amazing.
That the passer rating single season record from 2004 was broken by a point is a nice notch in your belt, but not something that drops jaws.
In the end, both girls are pretty. Stop trying to whore yours up like you are going to put Rodgers in the next episode of Toddlers and Tiaras.
You must be right, not very impressive
1. Aaron Rodgers 122.5 2011 GNB
2. Peyton Manning 121.1 2004 IND
3. Tom Brady (30) 117.2 2007 NWE
4. Steve Young+ 112.8 1994 SFO
5. Joe Montana+ 112.4 1989 SFO
And, as you well know, three QBs topped 5,000 yards this year and another one got very close. The next best passer rating this year? Drew Brees, 110.6.
You watch Toddlers and Tiaras? That may explain a few things.
Your bias is blatant
Homer it up man. Homer until you can homer no more.
Being a top 2 or 3 QB in a league like the NFL is amazing.
Ask not for whom the Homer homes, it homes for Rodgers.
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great stuff man
I do not blame your Bromance. If I were a GB fan, I would have blind crush on him too. No Homo
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QB rating is a joke
Hang on to that all you want. Anyone that knows anything about football laughs when that stat is brought up to prove a point.
It is so flawed on so many levels it is hilarious. If that is what you are using to prove that Rodgers is better than Brees……..
Well, lets just say this, you need to work a lot harder.
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I would love to hear your expert football
opinion on why you (and all your fellow football scholars) think that passer rating is so flawed. The only viable argument that I have ever heard is that it does not take into account the entire performance of a QB (which hurts QBs like Rodgers). That’s how we got ESPN trying to cram Total QBR down our throats. Passer rating is no more flawed than its constituent stats. And, they are all flawed, but it’s all we got.
how about this my friend
If I am asked to choose between two players who had the better season. I am going to try to take everything into account. In the case of these two guys (Brees and Rodgers) almost everything is so close its creepy.
Except in two areas, QB rating and total yards.
One guy broke a record that is 7 years old.
The other guy broke a record that is 27 years old.
One record is generally (understatement) accepted as flawed.
The other record is a raw number.
Forgive me and just about the entire world when we think the 27 year old record based on raw numbers is more impressive than a record based on a flawed rating system.
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Does "just about the entire world" include
the subset of people who will vote on the MVP? If so, then by your logic it should be a landslide win for Brees. I’m sure glad you’re not being asked to choose.
Not to mention, two guys broke that 27 year old record this year (and your guy came damn close), so check in with your fellow football scholars to see if something else might be afoot in today’s NFL.
9 out of 10 readers polled
reached a consensus that my comment didn’t use the word crap and was not a knock on Stafford. C’mon, be a part of the 90%.
Do you think I give a steaming pile of dog excrement about who the voters pick for MVP?
Are those the same guys that picked Cam Newton to be an alternate Pro Bowl QB before Stafford? Nope, but the process is just as flawed.
Again, not impressed.
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Here a flaw, there a flaw,
everywhere a flaw-flaw. How is it that you can stand to be a football fan when the entire institution is flawed up one side and down the other? On the other hand, you do get to use these flaws to create your own reality, so never mind. I get it now.
So you are saying
that Cam Newton was more deserving of a pro bowl bid this year than Stafford?
Talk about someone being in their own reality.
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Dude, dude, dudette,
I already stated at the beginning of this thread (and elsewhere) that I think Stafford deserved the Pro Bowl bid over Eli this year. Can you stretch your reality beyond the last comment made?
Stick with me here......
If you believe that, than your opinion of the selection process for MVP is flawed too.
And if that is the case, than how the hell could you use Rodgers most likely being the MVP as a valid reason for him being better than Brees this season?
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Um, I didn't.
You said that just about the entire world is more impressed with Drew Brees’s season because of the 27 yr. old record, yada, yada. I only used the MVP to suggest that at least one group of people who pay attention to the NFL appear to be leaning the other way. MVP doesn’t make Rodgers better. Being better makes him better.
When he is better than Brees
I will readily admit it. I have no horses in this race. I can be objective. He is not better this year.
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"You can get a win with undisciplined jack asses, you create a winning team with discipline and poise." by Leonuro
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But just to clarify:
You believe right now that Drew Brees is a better overall quarterback than Aaron Rodgers? Not just a better passer and not just this season, but better overall right now at this point in time.
yes
I do.
Because, I think the better passer will always be the better QB in the end.
Even more so in this day and age of sissy football.
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That's fine,
but Steve Young and John Elway would like a word with you out back. Do you want me to come along for back up?
lol
Nah, I am good.
I respected them as players. As talking heads, they are just that. Talking heads.
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Then look at QBR its a better way of telling
We are taught from an early age how to deal with failure not success. (If at first you don't succeed try try again, if at first you succeed then what....) -Charlie Sheen
I come ready, when I came out the womb I was ready, tell them mama that's why you had me, you knew I was ready. -Moss
Dominating your opposition physically is great and all, but confounding them mentally is sooo much more fun.
2-15-DEN 44(14:36) (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 47 for 3 yards (N.Suh). FUMBLES (N.Suh), RECOVERED by DET-N.Suh at DEN 47. N.Suh to DEN 47 for no gain (K.Moreno). FUMBLES (K.Moreno), recovered by DET-C.Houston at DEN 47. C.Houston to DEN 47 for no gain (O.Franklin). Denver challenged the fumble ruling, and the play was REVERSED. (Shotgun) K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 49 for 5 yards (S.Tulloch).
Sorry Ben T.
But I canceled my insurance with State Farm after I watched the Discount Double Check commercial for the first time.
"But the point is, finger-pointing is just what sports fans do when something doesn't go right." -- Kurt Mensching
by RealityIsOptionable on Jan 9, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
I'm heartbroken
My one wish as a young football fan was to someday have a QB on my team who could sell the shit out of some insurance. I finally felt like I was on the cusp of realizing that dream. It seemed like the perfect recipe: Aaron Rodgers is very popular as evidenced by selling the most jerseys and State Farm is a top notch outfit with the resources to produce commercials to compete with the best Allstate (may personal favorites), Geico, and Progressive spots. But, alas, the commercials are not really that funny and now you reveal that you canceled your insurance. I may never get my wish.
You really know how to tug at a guys heart strings.
I really feel bad now knowing that there was a child in this world who’s life was so boring he dreamed his QB hero would also be a good insurance salesman. You have hope, with the draft coming up perhaps Green Bay will draft Flo from Progressive. Who knows she might be a pretty good QB and your wish will come true. Hang on to the dream, do not let someone like me stop you.
If this is any consultation to you, I do not buy Wrangler jeans either.
"But the point is, finger-pointing is just what sports fans do when something doesn't go right." -- Kurt Mensching
by RealityIsOptionable on Jan 10, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
yep noticed that right after I hit post. I hate the no edit button feature
Also, I did some research.
It seems the cavemen guy has a higher ceiling at QB than Flo, so you might want to pass this information along to the GB scouting department.
"But the point is, finger-pointing is just what sports fans do when something doesn't go right." -- Kurt Mensching
by RealityIsOptionable on Jan 10, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Any word
on whether Mayhem from the Allstate commercials has any football background. That guy seems to be able to take a severe lickin’ and then hop right up like it’s nothing. That’s a toughness I haven’t seen since Tim Tebow shook off that herpes on his lip to beat the Steelers.
According to Mayhem's agent. Mayhem will not sign with Green Bay.
He was leaning toward playing for the Vikings because he liked the possibility of the stadium roof falling in on him. He is going to wait until Minnesota determines where they are going to play their home games next year before he makes a decision.
"But the point is, finger-pointing is just what sports fans do when something doesn't go right." -- Kurt Mensching
by RealityIsOptionable on Jan 10, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
I guess that doesn't surprise me.
That Mayhem guy is such a masochist, he will fit right in to a team that is staring into the abyss of a few more losing seasons.
Please let it be more than a few
Seriously, Purple uniforms?
That is one shade away from hot pink. WTF is that all about?
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Come on guys, stop trying to hard to hide bias
Stafford around 7? Do you know how many qbs EVER have done what staff did this year?
1.Brees
2. Rodgers
3. Brady
4. Stafford
5. E. Manning
6. Rivers
7. Ryan
8. Rothelsburger
9. Romo
10. Cutler
Take your shoes off, that'll cheer him up.
You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space.
-Johnny Cash
My list.
1. Tom Brady
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Drew Brees
4. Ben Roethlisberger
5. Matthew Stafford
T6. Tony Romo
T6. Eli Manning
8. Matt Schaub
9. Cam Newton
T10. Phillip Rivers
T10. Matt Ryan
12. Jay Cutler
13. Ryan Fitzpatrick
14. Joe Flacco
15. Tim Tebow
Honorable mentions – Sam Bradford, Josh Freeman.
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
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