Cliff Avril Would Consider Not Reporting To Camp If Franchised
by Sean Yuille on Feb 18, 2012 1:56 PM EST
in Detroit Lions News
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PrintThe negotiations between the Detroit Lions and defensive end Cliff Avril may be moving slowly, but things are certainly heating up in the press. In the last 24 hours, a few stories about the negotiations have come out, starting first with the news from Avril's agent that the talks were not progressing very quickly. Shortly after that, it came out in the Detroit Free Press that the Lions likely will place the franchise tag on Avril if a deal isn't worked out by March 5 (the deadline for tags to be used).
Today, the Avril camp responded with this bombshell:
Asked Avril if he'd be upset and maybe miss camp if Lions franchise tagged him. 'Probably'
— Chris McCosky (@cmccosky) February 18, 2012
The important thing to remember here is that receiving the franchise tag doesn't mean Avril will for sure only be offered a one-year deal for 2012. The Lions have said they would prefer not to use the franchise tag, and in all likelihood doing so would be to buy more time for negotiations. I doubt the Lions would plan on using the tag and having Avril play on the one-year tender in 2012. Rather, they would likely tag him in order to reduce the likelihood of him signing elsewhere while the negotiations continue.
I wouldn't start becoming too concerned about this situation just yet. As SideLion Report tweeted, the Lions want Avril back and Avril wants to re-sign, and neither side really wants to involve the franchise tag. Chances are this situation will be resolved before the possibility of a holdout becomes a legitimate issue.
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This situation appears to be quickly growing ugly.
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
That's what the media wants you to believe.
Seriously, how are the lions supposed to negotiate an expensive long term deal without knowing the cap space available.
I believe Avril signing will come after Calvin’s new deal.
http://twitter.com/#!/rumbulls
by CLF on Feb 19, 2012 8:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly, too many variables right now.
Follow @Crino22
Defenses around the NFL will fall victim to the fatal disease "Natecalvintitus"
That's why I said it "appears to be".
I know appearances can be deceiving. But it’s still worrisome.
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
Part of me wonders if the first comment from his agent
“the talks are moving very slowly” was an attempt to drum up public pressure to get a deal done. Agents will do anything to grab even the slightest advantage. This stinks of a PR pitch and the responding comments from both team and player are so “boiler plate” that it is almost too damn funny.
Too bad for the agent, Detroit Lions fans are too damn smart to fall for that kind of weak sauce.
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-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
Did Mayhew or Lewand say that the Lions will use the franchise tag?
This is all about the negotiating process. Hopefully the next two weeks will not be filled with as many stories about Cliff and his contract, as we have seen in the last two days.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
And the pissing contest begins
Tag his butt and let him sit. When he sees Young and LoJack and Suh and Fluellen out there mimicking his production he will reconsider his financial situation.
I actually want them to let him go. It will force the D line to do more shuffling from snap to snap. Seriously, WHY WAS SUH ALWAYS AT THE SAME POSITION? Move the man around, force the other team to follow and compensate for his movement. Create confusion, cause havoc! Raise hell!
Burn this mother down!!!!!!!!!!
ugg, I am not sure I am going to make it until the preseason without snapping.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
by joshsun on Feb 18, 2012 2:25 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I said same thing in offseason
We dont “need” avril imo, if he sits out of training camp when he gets franchised so be it. He would be ruining his career.
I would love for them put Suh all over the line, he can play any technique and play it at a high level
Agreed, they really need to move Suh around
I said this earlier in another post. Why he is playing the same position all year long is beyond me. Move him around, cause confusion, cause mistakes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
How about this
SLH and CWill up the middle
With Nick and Suh at DE
Datsyukian Deke, Detroit Red Wings Blog
Follow @cnsportsblogs
sure
but that is just one wrinkle. If players stay at one position too long, other teams will begin to plan for them at that position and take advantage of that.
Kind of like how our defense was so damn predictable at the end of the season and was exploited so easily.
We need to be less predictable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
by joshsun on Feb 19, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that was one of the main things I saw different in 11 from 10
They didn’t move Suh around to other spots on the line. I don’t recall seeing but a few 3/4 looks and never saw KVB in standing up either. While it wasn’t a big part of the 10 plan I had hoped to see more exotic looks.
Individuals should protect themselves. Governments can't protect individuals from themselves, it's just impossible, otherwise they become a tyranical state. -Ron Paul
by Ee Oulo on Feb 18, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Let's keep this nice and simple
1. Can you trade a franchised player, I don’t know why but I think it’s no
2. If you can’t trade him when he’s franchised them let him walk, a deal is not going to be worked out. There’s not enough money to go around, and I don’t want him missing camp and being a problem if he’s franchised, nothing good will come of this. If you can’t do the 1st option then say F U to him and see you on Sundays on the other side…
1) yes, you can trade a franchised player.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
Agreed
I love the idea of a trade best case scenario is trade him to kc for a second round draft pick or maybe a third and then file tampering on them and get a 6th round pick back…… This won’t happen but it would make me smile
by detsporttalk on Feb 18, 2012 2:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Let him go
IMO Avril has over achieved. He wants elite pass rusher money and according to his numbers he has an argument. I think his numbers are inflated and I rather spend money on someone else. I honestly think Willie is a better pass rusher not overall player but the step down is not worth the 10 million cap hit. For the first time in a long time we have to be worried about not just keeping talent but keeping talent that is cost effective….. Think about it if Avril was a free agent from another team would we be worried about trying to sign him. No we would say he isn’t worth the money you have to separate yourself from the sentimental value of a player because on the field it is worthless
by detsporttalk on Feb 18, 2012 2:39 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
There you have it
Think about it if Avril was a free agent from another team would we be worried about trying to sign him.
He would be talked about but not for 10-12 million. People would poo poo that deal in a heart beat.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
by joshsun on Feb 18, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that's an interesting way to look at it
I have to agree the sentimentality wage doesn’t have much of a place for most players. He just hasn’t given enough tot he team for long enough to warrant it.
Individuals should protect themselves. Governments can't protect individuals from themselves, it's just impossible, otherwise they become a tyranical state. -Ron Paul
Exactly right...
If the Lions were going to spend 10 million a year on a pass rusher they’d be persuing the Texan’s free agent DE Johnson before they handed that kind of cash to Avril. Here’s another point..playing next to Suh and Fairly and Williams will make most DE’s with any kind of rushing skill look like an all-pro. Because those guys are constantly double teamed… I say let him go..The Lions would be fools to wrap up all their capspace in 4-5 players and expect to be anybetter than they were last year. They risk falling into the trap SanDiego was/is in. A decent playoff team unable to get anyfurther because the majority of their money was tied up in 5-6 players
cut ties
hes obviously more concerned with a payday than helping this team………….willie and lojack can pick up the slack, hell, maybe we draft nick perry to take avril’s spot!
Is Cliff Avril a nucleus or perimeter player?
I think he’s a perimeter player. At the price he wants, let’s go after Mario Williams from Houston, a real upgrade at DE.
There are so many guys at 10 Mil and more (Staff, Calvin and Suh) and Avril isn’t close to any of them in talent. You build around the nucleus, all others are replaceable commodities.
Tag and trade him, no huge loss. 50 sacks in a year where the defense allows 500+ yards and stays on the field over 30 minutes is absolutely worthless!
He isn’t worth what he wants.
by Cursed on Feb 18, 2012 2:59 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
That's actually not a bad idea
I wonder what Mario wants. Maybe we can sell him the “you can complete the defense and push us over the hump to the super bowl if you take a bit of a pay cut” montra. And maybe set a package with LoJack, Willie, Suh and Fairley with Mario standing up and rushing :) hahaha
just win, baby
Thank you Kris Draper and Chris Osgood for all the memories.
Millen shall be Mi**en on Pride of Detriot. New, official, unwritten law.
by Bballkid-22 on Feb 18, 2012 3:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It is funny I went over to the sb nation Houston and they are saying the same thing about Mario as we are Avril
by detsporttalk on Feb 18, 2012 3:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No surprise that a lot of fans feel that NFL players make too much money.
And also no surprise that a lot of NFL fans have no clue about player market value, player evaluation, the complexities of the NFL CAP, and anything else related to the business side of the NFL.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
But...but...
My franchise in Madden is 160-0 over the past decade!!! And I got there by not overpaying for Avril but instead using the create-a-player function to invent athletes that care nothing about their personal lives and tend to my every need!!!!
by redwingxviii on Feb 18, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Couldn't agree more.
I like Cliff but there’s no way he puts up these numbers on another D line. Let’s go after Williams.
by nickr on Feb 18, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Let him walk
No “hometown discount” should not mean “hometown payday”. His agent has to be smart or we’ll see them both on taxi cab confessions.
"I like to win all the time, so all the time I play with myself."
Avril will get his money somewhere
There are 32 teams one of them is desperate and stupid enough to give him a huge deal. He might not get what he wants but he will still get more than he is worth
by detsporttalk on Feb 18, 2012 3:24 PM EST via mobile reply actions
let's be patient a bit
Avril deserves fair compensation and has been a production and professional Lion.
I’d like to get the microphones out of his face, and the constant breakdown of everything he says but alas, this is the world today… less is more, Cliff. Let the agent and FO negotiate
and let the outcome do the talking.
alter ego "ErnieSimsMadeMeDo" UndaDawg
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Feb 18, 2012 3:33 PM EST reply actions
I think this deal
Will eventually get done.
One question I keep asking is if Cliff is a top 5 or top 10 DE in the league? I think he’s top 10 & deserves top 10 money. However, it seems like he want top 5 money & that’s just not gonna happen. Calvin is top 5 (top 1 IMO), Stafford is top 10 (but essential to the development of the team), Suh is a top 5.
KVB will probably be the one to take the cut in pay to make this work.
"I’m not a talker on the field, but if you say something to me, I may say something back to you or I may ignore you. It’s funny because a lot of guys usually come up and say something to me like right before, something like ‘Have a good game,’ or whatever, and I just ignore it. I’m not here to meet friends. I’m here to cause you problems and meet your quarterback. I’ll shake his hand when I’m hitting him." Ndamakong Suh
by Detroitfantc on Feb 18, 2012 5:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Avril Top10?
Is hes better than;
Julius Peppers?
Dwight Freeney?
Justin Tuck?
Mario Williams?
Jared Allen?
Trent Cole?
Robert Mathis?
Jason Pierre Paul?
Justin Smith?
Jason Babin?
Charles Johnson?
He may have had more production over a few at the bottom of my list, save babin who had like 15 sacks playing on another Great line with other great players, but most are the only guy on the line who is a star or pro-bowler
Go Blue!
Revenue - Expenses = Profit
by dezznutz1001 on Feb 19, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
He is not top 10
it is as simple as that.
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-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
Exactly....
Make Avril a deal that pays him a decent DE salary… and then add escalators and incentives to allow him to make himself the a ‘top 10’ athlete with a top 10 pay.
http://twitter.com/#!/rumbulls
There you go
You want top 10 money, earn it.
Start the salary around 7 million. If you crack 11 sacks next season, add another 1.5-2 mill to your salary. 15 sacks, add 3.5 million. Add 6 more forced fumbles to your count next season, toss in another million. 3 fumble recoveries, toss in another .5 million.
rough numbers, of course, but you get the idea.
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-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
some of those guys are nearer the end than Cliff though
he’s rising.. maybe with help from detroit’s line-
alter ego "ErnieSimsMadeMeDo" UndaDawg
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Feb 20, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Ray Edwards
Got a 30 millions 5 year contract with 11 millions guaranteed. No way we pay more than 7 million a year. I say 25 million, 5 years with 17 million guaranteed and performance bonuses worth up to 5 million plus a signing bonus in the neighborhood of 4 million.
Please God put me in a position to throw a hissy fit because a team is offering me a tag that guarantees me 10-11 million
"My Mama once told me don't argue with fools, cause people from a distance can't tell who is who" - Jay Z
actually
it is over 12 million
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
is that number taking into account the new CBA rules?
Which isnt just only the Top 5 at the position, but it adds in the last five years as well into that equation…which ends up lowering the price tag
Go Blue!
Revenue - Expenses = Profit
by dezznutz1001 on Feb 19, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
not entirely sure
I am seeing 11 million too.
I am of the opinion that the real number is still unknown except for in the FOs of the NFL right now. It will creep out eventually. We are close I am sure.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
I hope this
is all gesturing. And I hope it stops now. I cannot stand those franchises and players that take their dealings public in attempt to gain leverage. That was the most disgusting part of the lockout.
And I seriously doubt that this FO is silly enough to tag him. Just let him find out what he is worth and then make a decision on if you can keep him. $10.6 million to have an unhappy player that is not worth that makes no sense to me. Maybe I’m wrong but I think Allen only makes 7 or 8, and like him or hate him, Avril is no Allen when he is happy, let alone disgruntled.
If it doesn't work out
HELLO Whitney Mercilus.
by Lionsickness on Feb 18, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
all i know
Is I don’t want this kinda Shit going on with Calvin! Get this guy signed….get Calvin extended and quit fucking around! Now is not the time to be having a pissing contests! We are on the brink of being a nfc power! Mm and tl get these guys signed!
by hostage42 on Feb 18, 2012 6:36 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm with Avril
When he was playing lights out, people were saying far and wide “pay the man!” So pay him. The guy deserves it. I remember how far he’s come.
USE THE SCHWARTZ!!!
I have no problem
Paying the man… It’s the amount he wants to get paid that I have a problem with. If he’s willing to get paid like the 7th, 8th, or 9th best DE in the league & that fits under the Lions cap- GO FOR IT. If he wants top 5 money, he needs to look elsewhere. It’s a business on both sides.
Just because call it a Rolex, doesn’t make it a Rolex. Cliff is good & he’s young. He could be a force on the Lions defensive line for many years. Will he ever be HOF caliber? Probably not. Will Calvin? Most likely. Will Stafford? Chances are better than Cliff’s. Will Suh? Again, better than Cliff’s. Those are the things I look at when I’m considering where to tier his new contract. Stafford, Megatron, & Suh are much harder to replace than Avril.
"I’m not a talker on the field, but if you say something to me, I may say something back to you or I may ignore you. It’s funny because a lot of guys usually come up and say something to me like right before, something like ‘Have a good game,’ or whatever, and I just ignore it. I’m not here to meet friends. I’m here to cause you problems and meet your quarterback. I’ll shake his hand when I’m hitting him." Ndamakong Suh
by Detroitfantc on Feb 18, 2012 9:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
When we said pay the man
We meant to sign him to a long term deal, not to destroy our cap.
Datsyukian Deke, Detroit Red Wings Blog
Follow @cnsportsblogs
by Detroitnr1 on Feb 19, 2012 9:08 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Pass rushers are a dime a dozen.
Let him walk, or trade him. If we’re going to pay that much pick up Mario Williams until we draft more DE’s
What's so funny 2011 Lions? Gordon Bombay doesn't think losing is funny.
Leshoure = 2012 Beastmode
Draft Konz!!
by Dtrain81 on Feb 18, 2012 8:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
REALLY?
That’s why teams spend early first round draft picks to get one.
That’s why teams spend over ten million dollars a year to get or keep one.
Mario Williams will get more than Cliff Avril. A lot more.
Amazing that you could get so much wrong in just two lines.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
by NorthLeft12 on Feb 18, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
REALLY?
1 year stop gap deal for Williams or comparable DE > Long term over pay for a mediocre light weight poor run defense DE.
Just calling it like I see it. Ever think that maybe Cliff Avril, while good, looks even better because of who he plays next to? I’m sure if Tamba Hali played in place of Avril he’d put up better numbers. Yet, Avril will most likely want more money we don’t have.
Pass rushers are a dime a dozen like I said.
What's so funny 2011 Lions? Gordon Bombay doesn't think losing is funny.
Leshoure = 2012 Beastmode
Draft Konz!!
You keep saying he is mediocre. Just because you say it, does not make it so.
NFL teams are not interested in mediocre players. There will be a lot of interest if Cliff becomes a free agent.
Williams will not sign for one year. By the way who is comparable to Williams?
You could sign John Abraham for a couple of years [he won’t sign for just one either] but he is 34 and has not played more than 703 snaps in the last four years. Actually, that could work for the Lions in the short term, but it would mean that the Lions would be facing another position that they would need high level replacements in a couple of years.
Suh benefits from playing with this D Line as much as they benefit from him IMO.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
by NorthLeft12 on Feb 19, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Oh crap
I forgot about Tamba Hali..your rigth, they are probably the same level talentwise…I might give a “slight” edge to Hali, cuz the D-line he plays on isnt as good as ours
Go Blue!
Revenue - Expenses = Profit
by dezznutz1001 on Feb 19, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Avril worth Top 10? i think not
Avril Top10? Is hes better than;
Julius Peppers?
Dwight Freeney?
Justin Tuck?
Mario Williams?
Jared Allen?
Trent Cole?
Robert Mathis?
Jason Pierre Paul?
Justin Smith?
Jason Babin?
Charles Johnson?
Go Blue!
Revenue - Expenses = Profit
by dezznutz1001 on Feb 19, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
So let's get this straight....
I have had but one remarkable year in the NFL and I feel like I should get paid in the same amounts as the other top tier players at my position that have consistently produced at an above average level. While other key players on my current team express their desire to stay and play with a team they feel is on the up and up. I feel I am above the team and deserve more than the others looking for in regards to contract re-newals. If I dont get what I want I just wont show up. My name is Cliff Avril and in about 5 years everyone will realize I was a player that benfitted from a scheme that drew attention to the other 75% of the DL I was a part of.
Ok this might be a bit harsh because Cliff did have a great year but does anyone really want someone who is non-commital and more focused on personal gain then the bigger picture?
Tag him and trade him. I am sure a few top draft picks with the new rookie salary cap would be a huge benefit for the Lions. Do not be surprised when Avril gets tendered and then dealt for two picks or a depth player and high draft pick. Its my opinion and it stinks just like everyones but how does it not make sense?
They did it for Savy, they did it for Horton, they did it for each other, they did it for us. I give you the 2011 Stanley Cup Champions....The Boston Bruins!!
My Lions lost to the Saints who are clearly the better team. (This is what happens when you back your team and they lose),
by beachguy113 on Feb 19, 2012 2:27 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Look at Charles Johnson of Carolina
He had roughly the same career as Cliff [except Cliff started more games] and he got a six year $72 Million contract last year.
LINK: http://www.nfl.com/player/charlesjohnson/2507187/profile
LINK:http://www.nfl.com/player/cliffavril/1330/profile
Now Johnson is much better against the run and Cliff is much more of a big playmaker. You can argue that Carolina overpaid, and maybe they did a little, but that is the going rate for very good pass rushing DEs. Cliff is not demanding anything outrageous. In fact, we really don’t know what he is asking for.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
For me its the way in which he deals with it.
I am not and never will be a fan of guys not reporting to camp. Oh I am sorry here is 12 million a year to play football. Get over it Cliff….take the money show up and play the game. I understand that hes a valuable piece and I am not arguing that he did not have a great year this past season. How much of that was scheme and how much of that was on Avril we wont know. Just not a fan of how he is dealing with this so far. Last nights comment might have been a Crown Royal induced rant.
They did it for Savy, they did it for Horton, they did it for each other, they did it for us. I give you the 2011 Stanley Cup Champions....The Boston Bruins!!
My Lions lost to the Saints who are clearly the better team. (This is what happens when you back your team and they lose),
I understand where your comin from
But unfortunately this is kind of the standard approach as to how players deal with getting franchised nowadays, and its not like what he is doing is completely wrong. The Lions already had an entire year to sign him to a long term deal, but couldn’t get it done. What exactly will one more year do for them. From the Lions perspective, they might try to franchise him and get some pick(s) back in return, but that would limit Avril’s options, something I bet him and his agent don’t want.
House of Spears | My Detroit Lions/NFL Blog
Follow @THouseOfSpears
by Latif Masud on Feb 19, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Agree. In the NFL a one year contract is extremely risky for the player.
Cliff feels like he has a resume and future that deserves a good payday, this year and beyond. A one year contract, while a lot of money, is for one year. If Cliff is seriously injured, he is done.
If I were in Cliff’s shoes I guess I would feel the same way. He has been a stand up guy for the Lions for four years. Three of them at a relatively low pay [even the fourth year was a bargain for the Lions] and he would like some security. Preferably with the only team he has known and has done well for and looks like it will be successful.
There is really nothing wrong with anything he has said in this negotiation. I’ll wait and see how this shakes out and judge him by what he does.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
by NorthLeft12 on Feb 19, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Johnson got a big contract mainly because the Panthers cap floor was to low
and I disagree that Charles Johnson’s contract is the “going rate” of good pass rushing DE’s.
Link some fan’s take on Charles Johnson’s contract.
Charles Aaron "Bubba" Smith 1945 - 2011 R.I.P.
Okay I read through your link [thanks by the way].
First, the comment was dated July 2011. Before the regular season.
Right now, they have Johnson, Greg Hardy, Everette Brown and Tyler Brayton on the roster.
Brown and Brayton did not play for the Panthers in 2011. Those spots were covered by four guys who had under 700 snaps and were below average to be generous. I think this just goes to show that what looks great in the off season, does not turn out that way in the real season. This commenter was counting on improved play from the DTs that they drafted. I understand that the Panthers are back on the market for some real DTs, again.
I could not say that any of the four selected comments were negative. They seemed to indicate that signing Johnson was a good thing. And based on how the season turned out, it sure looks like it was.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
by NorthLeft12 on Feb 19, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I am not that concern about the production they got from Johnson
my point mainly is that Johnson basically hit the lotto with his contract. Before re-signing Johnson the Panther’s cap number was 70 million. They had to spend about 40 million to hit the 90% salary cap floor. Carolina had no plans to bring in a bunch of free agents. To me Avril just is not worth 12.67 million (Johnson’s ave cap hit through out his contract)
Charles Aaron "Bubba" Smith 1945 - 2011 R.I.P.
40% too much
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
This is a negotiation people. A lot of stuff gets said and threatened.
The Lions “say” they may likely put the franchise tag on Cliff.
Cliff says he would probably not report to camp if franchised.
Lets let the adults work this out, eh?
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
I swear no one on here has ever seen the NFL do buisness
This is business as usual. So just let it go…Remember Suh’s hold out? no one would ever forgive him then he balled out that entire year. Let it go, Its called negotions this is how it works. Like it or not.
"People ask is winning really the only thing? My answer to them is my answer to you. Ask Yourself The Damn Question! Is winning the only thing that matters to you? Is it what you want ? Do you want to be remembered as a winner...Or something else? ~ (Dan Lauria as Vince Lombardi)
PCP 4 LIFE
by The Profiler on Feb 19, 2012 12:17 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I agree with that...
It is business as usual… it’s just that we are more passionate about our team than ever and the fact that we even have all these concerns is a good thing. :^)
Eat, Drink and Sleep Football.
nice lists whoever came up with those DE lists
Avril can’t do this to us, he needs to realize he’s not a top ten DE right now, and he also needs to realize had he not come up through Detroits system this conversation wouldnt even be happening, he got good development through Detroit and elsewhere he probably wouldve been cut after a few years. Avril needs to set the tone and be a leader like Stafford and KVB, they realized with the new salary cap people needed to make sacrifices to make Detroit a winner again, they restructured contracts so they could stay here and give Mayhew more money to work with. Avril you need to stay in Detroit, stop being greedy, youre still going to make more money than 90% of Americans, be happy with what you get and enjoy life. (Plus you owe my dad money still, he’s your doctor, he says you still haven’t paid for your appointments)
The point people keep missing
Avril DOESN"T HAVE TO BE A TOP TEN DE TO GET TOP 10 DE MONEY because the other ten guys aren’t free agents. He is the second best DE in the FREE AGENCY which means he will more than likely get the second highest paid contract for a DE. Remember Dwayne White? The Lions paid him like a top ten or fifteen DE because he was the best DE on the market that year. That’s just the way it works! It’s not about what your value is relative to the NFL, its about what your value is relative to the class of FAs your competing with much like the NFL draft.
House of Spears | My Detroit Lions/NFL Blog
Follow @THouseOfSpears
by Latif Masud on Feb 19, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
That is what his agent wants people and teams to believe
That is not his NFL value and the team that pays him that money is MORONIC.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
Go back and look through free agency periods
That’s simply how it works. It doesn’t matter a whole lot what Jared Allen is making because Jared Allen can’t be signed. What Mario Williams signs for will set the value for what Avril is worth, and Mario will probably end up being one of the highest paid defensive players in the game.
House of Spears | My Detroit Lions/NFL Blog
Follow @THouseOfSpears
He is not worth that kind of money
and I feel extremely bad for the team’s fans that sign him for that money.
I do not buy it. Maybe that is what his agent is telling him and that would explain the complications so far in contract negotiations.
If he wants 10mil +, he is not getting it here. Have fun under performing on a weaker D line for a losing team Avril.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
No duh really
He’s not worth top ten DE money to the Lions, but a team like the Bucs, who have tons of cap space and are desperate for DE help? I think he might be worth it or a similar team.
House of Spears | My Detroit Lions/NFL Blog
Follow @THouseOfSpears
Cool for them, let them pay 40% too much for his skill set
I have no problem with someone else doing it. I have a ton of problems with us doing it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
Eh
With Williams injury riddled past, I don’t think teams will be lining up to pay him incredible amounts of money. He’ll get paid for sure, but for how much? 15+? I dunno…
Aaron Berry > Eric Berry
When anyone says, "I’ll kick your ass" its implied that they’ll be using Hanson’s leg. -Leonuro
I have a twitter: Follow Me
Thanks Latif for a bit of sanity.
Recked you.
A big part of why teams will want Cliff is his age, his clean history as far as injury, no off field concerns, and Cliff has improved every year. This contract is not about what you have done, but what teams think you will do.
John Abraham and Robert Mathis are free agents this year too, but are 34 and 31 years old respectively. Cliff is 26.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
Eh.
This reeks of reporters making news.
In any case, Avril can’t earn money if he doesn’t play. The Lions would retain his rights and he’d waste a year, no?
yes, if he sits out, he would not get paid.
After a certain date, mid season around game 7 I believe, is the cut off date of him playing to get paid a prorated portion of his salary.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
I am going to wait this one out for a bit...
One thing I know about Cliff Avril is that he says things that he does not always think through. I have seen him do it several times now. I am pretty sure that once the fallout hits Cliff over his comments he wil backpedal a bit. The problem is, that his original comments are probably closest to his real feelings.
What I do know is the Lions do not have the money under the cap to sign Cliff Avril to a $10 million per season deal. If that is what he is expecting, then we will be saying goodbye to him and drafting a defensive end. If Cliff wants to stay with the Lions he will have to structure his deal to keep his cap number low the first two seasons. If he is not willing to work with the Lions in that then he will be playing someplace else next season.
As we all have noted several times, there is no reason to overpay Cliff Avril when the Lions have guys on the roster that can step in for him very easily. We might even see some run defense at left end if that happened.
Listen to the Two Bro's Talk podcast!
Follow @tufflynx
by TuffLynx on Feb 19, 2012 5:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
We might even see some run defense at left end if that happened.
lmao, I am not sure I would recognize that if I saw it for the Lions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
maybe its in the Lions best interest to franchise (non exclusive)
its really the best thing for both sides so to speak. Cliff can still negotiate w/ any team that wants too and the Lions dont let him get away for nothing and could use the picks both in trade and for future building. As the Lions will not be able to do what they need anyways w/ the limited cap room they wont match any high dollar deals.
the next question really does become as i stated in the other post a matter of which teams have the cap and feel they could lose the picks this year and probably year after next if there’s some type of stipulation to that second 1st round pick. There are some teams that either went to the playoffs or were just out of due to being in a weak division some of these teams have that type of cap room and could consider him a piece needed to either push further into the playoffs or get them over the hump into the playoffs.
The main reason i say this is because if he is commanding that high amount in the long run they will run into the same problem when they want to sign new FA’s or restructure his deal even. Its best to break the cycle now but explain why its being done. Its Business. one way or another the man gets paid this season and thats a win win for him as well.
The problem with using a non-exclusive franchise tag is...
The exclusive tag uses the franchise tender amounts from this season while the non-exclusive franchise tag uses the tender amounts from last season. Under most circumstances we would expect the franchise tender amounts to rise each season, but word on the street is that they will go down for most positions for the 2012 league year. By using the non-exclusive franchise tag, the Lions might actually have to play Cliff more than they would by using the exclusive tag.
Listen to the Two Bro's Talk podcast!
Follow @tufflynx
BTW, I don't expect anybody to bite on trying to sign Avril if he gets a non-exclusive franchise tender.
It would take an exceptionally stupid front office to overpay for Cliff on his salary and give away two first round picks on top of it. If the 2012 franchise tender numbers really do end up being significantly lower than they were for 2011, I would expect the Lions to use the exclusive tag if they franchise Cliff at all.
Listen to the Two Bro's Talk podcast!
Follow @tufflynx
LET THE POS WALK
Screw Avril! Let him walk!!!!!! He’s a one trick pony. He is far from the best DE in the league and I’ll be pissed if we pay him top dollar. Let one of our other ends play his spot or draft one late in the draft. If we over pay him we are screwing ourselves by making us fill other spots with shit players.
LMAO
Yeah as soon as I read it my blood boiled. I overreacted a tad but yeah thats how I feel. Replace him, he is nowhere near worth top dollar. Paying him top dollar will do nothing but hurt us in the long run. He’s not a core player.
by Usmarine0341 on Feb 19, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Did Avril kill your dog or something?
Aaron Berry > Eric Berry
When anyone says, "I’ll kick your ass" its implied that they’ll be using Hanson’s leg. -Leonuro
I have a twitter: Follow Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyr-QJ-9CLs
House of Spears | My Detroit Lions/NFL Blog
Follow @THouseOfSpears
lmao
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
Let him go
If he has that attitude then let him go. While he is a very very good player I could see him being a problem for a team that is just now making that rise. There are Free Agent players we can get to replace him.
So, to sum up...
1) Let Avril walk, even though we only have one backup for each side
2) Trade the NFL’s best receiver for draft picks and cap space
3) Move Suh, the second best rookie DT ever, to DE to replace Avril
4) Switch to a 3-4 defence after spending the last three years building a 4-3
5) Fire Schwartz, Cunningham, and Linehan and get new coaches
6) Get rid of all the veteran leaders on our team (Burleson, KVB, Williams) and replace them with rookies
7) Sign Peyton Manning
Any more bright ideas, guys?
For the record...
the only one of those things I agree with is #1.
Listen to the Two Bro's Talk podcast!
Follow @tufflynx
I agree with #1 only because of the money he wants. Press on man.
I only like part of #5 and that is less and less with each win.
I like #3 but only on a limited part time roll. I think his efficiency is limited by teams knowing exactly where he is lining up without any doubt. Move him around and he will be even more disruptive.
#2, no thanks.
- we played limited 3-4 in 2010, wish we did it more this last season.
- ?, is he coaching now?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
Well lets not get carried away...
I know there are a lot of people out there that are perpetually cynical and think that we could replace the entire team with a bunch of rookies and all of a sudden be a super bowl contender…but those same people are most likely drawing their knowledge of the game of football from their experiences playing Madden rather than any factual basis. Sorry to say it folks but you’re not going to get a stud LT, CB, DE, LB etc all from the same draft…the majority of the draft picks beyond the 1st / 2nd round end up being flops or special teams bodies for the majority of their career with the exception of a select few like Shannon Sharp… You CAN’T build a team on the draft alone…PERIOD…so to think we could replace experienced veterans with rookies and be successful is flat out a joke…. Now on the other hand I do feel that if Avril can’t get real with the amount of money he expects then we can find someone that can play just as good for less… I think Joshsun said it best…if he were a free agent from any other team in the NFL do you think for one second we would be pursuing him with this same level of interest after just one really “great” season??? Didn’t think so…
if he were a free agent from any other team in the NFL do you think for one second we would be pursuing him with this same level of interest after just one really "great" season??? Didn’t think so…
That was not my comment. I locked onto that comment when someone else said it. Not sure who? But I agree with it 100%. Wish I had said it first.
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-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
should have been a reply to silver_rush
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
I don't think so, but I do think the Lions like that he developed and is "homegrown"
if everything were equal- there is value in continuity
(with good players, not so much with bad players)
alter ego "ErnieSimsMadeMeDo" UndaDawg
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Feb 20, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
My thoughts
I’d prefer to trade him if possible, as some teams absolutely blow at pass rushing and I’m sure they’d give up some pretty picks for him.
If not, he’s done well for us. If we can’t pay him what he feels he’s worth, there are definitely teams out there that will. I saw some games and despite not being a fan of those teams, their pass rush was embarrassing to watch.
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