2011 All-NFC North Team - Via Kevin Seifert
by Dustin J Quarrella on Feb 7, 2012 6:34 PM EST
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PrintESPN NFC North beat writer Kevin Seifert has posted his All-NFC North Team roster. The roster features five Detroit Lions, including WR Calvin Johnson, OG Rob Sims, OT Jeff Backus, DT Ndamukong Suh, and S Louis Delmas. Seifert provides an excerpt regarding his thoughts surrounding the Sims selection.
"I went with the Lions' Rob Sims at left guard in part on the advice of John McTigue of ESPN Stats & Information, who noted that Sims was the only NFC North left guard to play the position for 16 games this season. Sims also had the best pass-sack ratio (19.7 passes per sack) of the group, based on video study," says Seifert.
Noticeably absent from this list are TE Brandon Pettigrew, QB Matt Stafford, and DE Cliff Avril. Seifert also provides some insight into the logic behind leaving Pettigrew off of the list in favor of Packers TE Jermichael Finley.
"There is no doubt that the Lions' Brandon Pettigrew (83 catches) had a more productive season then the Packers' Jermichael Finley (55). But the Lions often used Pettigrew as a substitute for their punchless running game, and that's why his per-catch average of 9.4 yards was lower than any other tight end with at least 30 catches. According to ESPN Stats & Information, the average pass to Pettigrew this season traveled 6.5 yards in the air. The average pass to Finley traveled 11.4 yards. Finley caught five passes of at least 30 yards. Pettigrew's longest was 27. Both players had their share of drops, combining for a total of 15, but I thought Finley made a bigger impact on his catches than Pettigrew did," says Seifert.
Some Lion fans will take exception to DE Cliff Avril being left off of the list in favor of DE Julius Peppers. DE Jared Allen had a remarkable year, and though I personally took exception to his comments about the city of Detroit, I can't argue his nomination. Peppers over Avril? Avril finished the season with 11.5 sacks compared to Peppers 11. His impact this season exceeded that of Peppers.
There were also considerations for LB Stephen Tulloch and CB Chris Houston. To further view Seifert's comments, go to, http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/38287/finally-your-2011-all-nfc-north-team.
2011 All-NFC North Team
| Pos. | Player, Team |
|---|---|
| OFFENSE | |
| WR | Calvin Johnson (DET) |
| WR | Greg Jennings (GB) |
| WR | Jordy Nelson (GB) |
| LT | Jeff Backus (DET) |
| LG | Rob Sims (DET) |
| C | Scott Wells (GB) |
| RG | Josh Sitton (GB) |
| RT | Bryan Bulaga (GB) |
| TE | Jermichael Finley (GB) |
| QB | Aaron Rodgers (GB) |
| RB | Matt Forte (CHI) |
| DEFENSE | |
| DE | Jared Allen (MIN) |
| DT | Kevin Williams (MIN) |
| DT | Ndamukong Suh (DET) |
| DE | Julius Peppers (CHI) |
| OLB | Clay Matthews (GB) |
| MLB | Brian Urlacher (CHI) |
| OLB | Lance Briggs (CHI) |
| CB | Charles Tillman (CHI) |
| CB | Charles Woodson (GB) |
| S-NB | Tramon Williams (GB) |
| S | Louis Delmas (DET) |
| SPECIAL TEAMS | |
| PK | Mason Crosby (GB) |
| P | Tim Mastay (GB) |
| PR | Devin Hester (CHI) |
| KR | Percy Harvin (MIN) |
| ST | Corey Graham (CHI) |
ROAR.
By: Dustin J Quarrella
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Pride of Detroit or its writers. FanPosts are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable fans.
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Gotta say Tulloch
Comparing the list of snubs to the players picked ahead of them…I think only Tulloch and Pettigrew can be made a case for. Avril is going against Peppers and Allen, both of whom had better seasons. The same can be said of Stafford not being picked over Rodgers…the NFL MV, and Houston not being picked over Tillman, Woodson or Williams. Pettigrew probably had a better season than Finley and Tulloch IMO played much better than Urlacher this season. Urlacher showed his age this year.
I actually agee with the picks .. IMHO
Staff is deserving but no way was he better than Rodgers …
Avril has been great, but he benefits greatly from playing alongside our DT’s. Peppers and Allen are better players in their own right and did perform well this year. Avril was great, bit choosing him over them is like choosing a Bears DT who performs well cuz of Peppers over Suh.
Where is the none of the above option?
Grew was primarily an outlet player that staff turned to when no one else was open. Stafford is clearly behind Rodgers but not as far as the cheese packers would have you believe. Houston had a decent half season until he was hurt. Than he was a sieve. Tully was Neutral plus at his position. An upgrade for us, no doubt but was he better than Briggs, Urlacher or Matthews? Not even close.
And now for the one that will probably upset people.
Avril finished the season with 11.5 sacks compared to Peppers 11. His impact this season exceeded that of Peppers.
Just wrong. Avril has a boat load of talent around him on our D line. Peppers has who? Peppers is that D line. Henry Melton had 7 sacks as the next D lineman on the bears for most sacks. Idonije with 5 sacks. Seriously. Peppers is that D line.
No disrespect to Avril. He is not on the same level as Peppers. Not even close really. Also, this is not to say he will never be on a Peppers level (i doubt it), it could happen I guess.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
by joshsun on Feb 7, 2012 7:46 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Peppers also rushes the blind-side, giving him an advantage...
And Avril had a non-negligible number of playtime split with other DEs.
I’m sorry, but I’d rather have had Avril this year than Peppers, any way you slice it. That’s not saying Avril is objectively “better” or that he will have a better year next year, but saying Peppers deserves it because he’s the “better” player is what’s wrong with popularity contests like the Pro Bowl, it doesn’t smell right.
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
by Mavyrk on Feb 8, 2012 1:01 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Well, he is better
Flat out better. He is by far the more complete and dominating player. He has been playing at a much higher level longer than Avril.
It is no contest man. Take off the Homer blinders man.
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-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
Avril is not a slouch
and Peppers is a beast. Avril shows great technique in causing those fumbles and each year continues to get better… Peppers may have leveled off, albeit at a very high level.
I don’t think the chicago D line was talentless and through some of the season
Moulton had some great numbers.
alter ego "ErnieSimsMadeMeDo" UndaDawg
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Feb 8, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
that is what it comes down to
Peppers is a beast.
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-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
Peppers WAS a beast, but is seems to be less beastly every year. Avril has surpassed him in my opinion.
Just because he planted Staff into the ground because of a missed block by Backus doesn’t mean we have to bow to him.
Follow @Crino22
Defenses around the NFL will fall victim to the fatal disease "Natecalvintitus"
He was out there on a leg and a half for the last 5 or 6 games
I am not bowing down to the man for what he has done in the past. I am giving him credit for what he accomplished this season on a D line with no where near the same talent as our D line. We had 41 sacks as a team this year. Chicago had 33. That is a dramatic difference.
To put that difference in prospective. That is only one sack away from us playing without KVB the entire season.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
...and the year before?
Follow @Crino22
Defenses around the NFL will fall victim to the fatal disease "Natecalvintitus"
12.0
7.0
11.0
10.5
13.0
2.5
14.5
10.5
8.0
11.0
His third lowest sack total for a season in his career. It was his first year in Chicago. Not a huge surprise.
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-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
I think Mav is saying
Peppers isn’t getting any younger, and Avril is only getting better. If I were to pick between the two right now, long term, I’d have to go with Avril.
Eric Wright and Aaron Berry live #Regan
When anyone says, "I’ll kick your ass" its implied that they’ll be using Hanson’s leg. -Leonuro
I have a twitter: Follow Me
I would take Avril too because he is much younger.
but that is not taken into account for these types of teams.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
I understand that
I’d take him this year over Avril as well.
Aaron Berry > Eric Berry
When anyone says, "I’ll kick your ass" its implied that they’ll be using Hanson’s leg. -Leonuro
I have a twitter: Follow Me
Now, if I were picking a team to start this next season
I would take avril. Based on youth alone. I would do that fully expecting that he would never reach Peppers level in any single season. That is ok, he is still a highly productive player.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
Sure he's "better" in the total scope of things.
But I feel year-end awards should be about seasons, not careers or “talent”. Peppers plays on an easier side of the line (QB can’t see you coming), and as much as you’d like to denigrate Chicago’s defensive line I’m not buying it.
Avril was the league leader in forced fumbles this year for his position. Advanced NFL Stats has him as the sixth best DE in the league for this year, so clearly it can’t just be “Homer blinders.” Cliff Avril’s season was better than Julius Peppers’s. Is it too much to ask for some objectivity?
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
carolina's cap room scares me :(
alter ego "ErnieSimsMadeMeDo" UndaDawg
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Feb 8, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
I am sorry
I am not impressed.
typical contract year spike in stats.
He will some back down to reality after he is over paid. I just hope we are not the team that over pays him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
Yes, typical GREAT SEASON in a contract year.
This isn’t the “All-NFC North non-Free Agents” roster, is it?
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
by Mavyrk on Feb 8, 2012 8:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nope
I am just not buying the forced fumbles as a difference maker for him against peppers.
that is the kind of stat that almost never repeats from one year to another. It has so much luck involved I do not buy it as a negotiation point.
BTW, IMHO 11.5 sacks in a season is not a great year. Good one sure.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
But...
This list is, again, not looking at people “going forward.” It’s not looking into predictability or stature. It’s about seasons. Avril’s season was better than Peppers’s. That’s all there is to it. You can say contract year, it’s probably not going to repeat itself, blah blah blah, but none of that matters because that’s not what the list is about.
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
Well, I am not the only person that thinks
that Avril’s season was not better than Pepper’s season.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
I understand that you do not think Pepper's season was better than Avril's
That is cool man.
I believe and see it everytime I watch the Bears play. Peppers is a far more complete DE than Avril.
Avril is a speed rush DE and frankly far more often than not he is a liability against the run.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
That! I can agree to.
Peppers is a stud in run support and is a far more complete DE, I agree completely. Subjectively (totally my opinion), I feel that the way Avril affected passers this season for us was more than the total package of what Peppers brought to the table for the Bears.
I just get a little cross when you say “homer blinders” when clearly people agree with me. People agree with you too, so I mean, I guess this is just an agree-to-disagree situation. All’s well!
"You've got to respect your opponent, no matter who it is. You respect him best by going out there and beating him up." - Calvin Johnson
well, it is a credit to Avril that some people think he was better than Peppers
I am of the opinion that run support is extremely underrated because it does not have a stat that people can look at and go Ohhhhh….. Ahhhh….
That does not change how important it is to a DE and how greatly it can change the other teams offensive outlook. Peppers does not have a glaring weaknesses in his game. He covers a larger roll for his team and does it at a level that is equal to or greater than the one dimensional DEs in the league like…. Avril.
Avril is, IMHO, a one dimensional DE. In the right defense, ie one where he does not have to stay honest against the run, he can put up nice numbers. He is asked to watch for the run on the way to the QB. That is coach speak for “GET YOUR ASS TO THE QB” and if the RB comes your way grab him. We saw this liability against the run game all season long on both ends.
I guess my point finally is this. If Peppers were to completely abandon his run support and go all out for the QB his numbers would be far better than Avrils.
It is actually funny, people think peppers takes plays off. For example, plays where he stands his man up and is spying into the backfield. Something pre-snap flagged him to a run play and he is doing his job. He will not always be right in those situations. The fact that his coaches give him the leeway to pick his own game plan says a ton about his decision making, skill set and fantastic play making ability.
To be a top 10 DE in the NFL, the player has to play well against both the pass and the run. Avril has not been asked and frankly has never shown he can be effective against the run. Peppers does it every year.
Disclaimer, I felt I was not being clear enough with my reasoning for thinking Peppers was the better player this year. Plus, I wanted people to understand that I am not hating against Avril. I just see him as too one dimensional.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-There are approximately 45 cats and dogs for every person born.
-Only 1 out of 10 dogs born ever get a home.
-Only 1 out of 12 cats born ever find a home.
-Approximately 800 dogs & cats are KILLED each HOUR in the United States, because there are not enough homes for them!
Avril at this point is clearly better than Peppers
it’s almost indisputable, Avril is not on the blind side and STILL found a way to cause 6 fumbles. He has an interception and 5 passes defended. He is also makes down field tackles with his speed.
Follow @Crino22
Defenses around the NFL will fall victim to the fatal disease "Natecalvintitus"
Sorry but he's wrong on 'Grew
The Packers run game wasn’t splendid either and Finley wasn’t near as productive. Ridiculous.
USE THE SCHWARTZ!!!
I agree. Finley did not have the impact that Grew had.
Brandon is a better blocker than Finley and was a much more reliable receiver this year. Finley is, and always will be, a more dangerous big play threat than Grew because of their different roles and abilities.
"I’m sorry for all the people who want us to run the ball 40 times a game, but we’re going to put the ball in No. 9’s hands and he’s going to make plays for us like he did today," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said. Amen to that Jim!
Totally correct
When Jennings went down, most experts thought it was Finely’s time to shine. All I can remember was drop, drop, drop. What a joke!
I can't believe I am saying this (because I thought taking Grew that high was a mistake)
but I would take Grew over Finley any day.
Follow @Crino22
Defenses around the NFL will fall victim to the fatal disease "Natecalvintitus"
I'm sure that
I see things like this differently than most. But when people make a team list, I can’t help but infer it to mean ‘who do I want on my team’. At this moment I take Avril over Peppers every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Sure, Avril is the benefactor of huge talent around him. but he goes 100% every down, Peppers doesn’t. He had more production and way more splash plays. And finally, if I’m building a TEAM, I don’t build with guys that are 32 and get out played by guys that are 25.
age is your best point if starting a team IMO
the making the list was based on last year’s play, not next year’s.
alter ego "ErnieSimsMadeMeDo" UndaDawg
by BillySimsMadeMeDo on Feb 8, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Finley is as overrated as K2 AND Shockey were.
Follow @Crino22
Defenses around the NFL will fall victim to the fatal disease "Natecalvintitus"
How long will Peppers live off his stats three years ago?
Follow @Crino22
Defenses around the NFL will fall victim to the fatal disease "Natecalvintitus"
by Bret Crino on Feb 8, 2012 9:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Avril
Peppers got in based on his name alone. No other reason.
"People ask is winning really the only thing? My answer to them is my answer to you. Ask Yourself The Damn Question! Is winning the only thing that matters to you? Is it what you want ? Do you want to be remembered as a winner...Or something else? ~ (Dan Lauria as Vince Lombardi)
PCP 4 LIFE
Pettigrew
Finley drops too many balls and doesn’t block like a true tight end.
I couldn't think of a better signature.
To everybody who hates on Suh
but PFF had Suh with 27 quarterback pressures, an NFL high for an interior lineman.
I couldn't think of a better signature.
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